I don't quite understand the two Thread Border router architecture that you mentioned in the last section. For the NCP architecture I understand the reference app for the host side does not exist but for RCP architecture, do you mean we can find a platform(SoC) that supports Matter(Thread stack) or we can integrate it in host processor platform? Does Nordic has host processor for RCP architecture? Thank you.
@@Fan0315 Nordic provides a reference implementation for the connectivity part (RCP) for nRF52833 and nRF52840: developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/samples/openthread/coprocessor/README.html When it comes to the host part, a reference implementation is provided within the OpenThread project: github.com/openthread/ot-br-posix This implementation requires a POSIX-based platform like Raspberry Pi; Nordic does not provide such solutions within its portfolio but developers can bundle a Nordic Dev Kit with e.g. Raspberry Pi to create a PoC solution
Does thread allow application layer specific commands to be routed via thread FTDs that don’t support that application layer? For example, can I send a command to a matter endpoint in the future via a thread router that doesn’t itself support matter?
Hi Charlie, it is possible to create a device that supports and another communication protocol on IPv6 to send for example CoAP messages. However, a node that does not support Matter cannot send a Matter command to Matter-compliant devices for security reasons. You would need to have a dedicated gateway in that case.
@@NordicSemi but I thought thread was supposed to be application layer agnostic - therefore, all thread matter /HomeKit / google devices share the same thread network.
@@Charlie-cc6vo It is agnostic in the sense that you can use Thread with different application layers. Right now if you have two different Thread networks (one for HomeKit and one for Nest devices for example) they do not use the same application layer. If you use Zigbee for example you must use the Zigbee application layer. Also using the same application layer does not imply being able to send/receive data to devices being in a different Network. Devices still need to be commissioned into a network. If that were not the case anyone could just buy a light switch and control their neighbor's lights.
@@NordicSemi I guess what I want to know is whether thread allows sending matter commands via thread routers that aren’t themselves matter endpoints, to other matter endpoints. For example, my Nanoleaf essentials will not be updated to matter. But they are thread. In future, they should be still able to relay matter commands to other matter devices despite not being matter application layer compatible themselves right? Because of thread and how it is application layer agnostic.
@@Charlie-cc6vo The short answer is "No it doesn't work like this". The non-Matter Thread devices and the Matter over Thread devices are not in the same network. Being agnostic only means the device makers are free in selecting their application layer. It does not mean all thread devices will be able to relay messages from other Thread devices. Your best bet is to get any of the Matter border routers that can control your nanoleaf as well as act as a matter border router. You might already be using one of those. It would be an Apple HomePod mini, Apple TV, Google Nest Hub 1st and 2nd gen, some amazon Echos for example. Keep in mind Nordic is a semicondictor supplier. We enable devlce makers to build matter devices and don't always know how the final implementation will look like. I am sure you will be able to get it working somehow. The correct place to ask for specific information on this would be Nanoleaf in this case. We hope this helps.
Bluetooth Low Energy is a great solution for the device to device communication in Matter we only use Bluetooth LE for commissioning. For the low-power Matter devices Thread is used even tough Bluetooth can fulfill a similar role. Matter is IP-based as is Thread, and another big point is that Thread is application layer agnostic.
What is open-source is the implementation of Matter, not the entire technology. Until a specification developed within Connectivity Standards Alliance is adopted it is available only to the alliance members on particular tiers of membership. Additionaly, according to Connectivity Standards Alliance Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) Policy RANDz Licenses are granted when a Member's product is Certified to comply with an Adopted Specification. Members confirm that their product is compliant with the applicable Adopted Specification(s) through successfully completing the Alliance's Certification Program, with the resulting product being "Certified" by the Alliance.
Can we connect the matter devices directly to apple home app, alexa app and google home app without installing the 3rd party app to link to it? Since matter is a open source, can the manufacturer able to adopt matter standard to bring the product to market without getting the certification?
Yes, you can connect Matter devices directly, that is exactly what Matter was made for. You can expect most large smart home systems to work with Matter devices. No, you need to confirm that a device will work with Matter and comply. Each manufactor will work with the Connectivity Standard Alliance (CSA) on this. For a standard like Matter there needs to be some sort of control to make sure quality requirements are met.
@@NordicSemi While that seems interesting and valuable, we are collectively familiar with how "the middle man" ends up in control of access to specific devices and pricing of all devices because they want their share of "cash" that is going between consumers and product manufactures. There just has to be a better way than another layer of people to employee and manage and control the outcomes!
@@wondamaner Hi, yes we are familiar with that kind of system and this was a big concern when the discussion around Matter started. This does not apply to Matter. There are already many different border routers that give "access". You could even get a Thread capable Wi-Fi Router for your Home Network and use that. Matter is made specifically to not be a walled garden.
@@NordicSemi As long as software is the mechanism, than we can pick and choose products. The problem is that "hardware" vendors have been in charge of home automation for a long time. Frequency/band/modulation-type isolation has been a big problem. Even having matter as the gateway between them, doesn't guarantee that all manufactures will implement or even want to implement a Matter gateway for their product line. They must be compelled by the strengths of the platform, and their own ability to deliver something valuable in functionality, quality and price/performance. Google/Nest is interesting, but only if you don't believe that Google is ignoring all the meta-data that your home/system can provide them. This is ultimately the problem as well. As soon as "devices" have access to the internet, you really have to worry about what it is they can see on your network and what they are telling someone else about it.
Hi @@wondamaner, you have some good points. When it comes to which vendors will implement Matter we already have statements from the biggest ones that they will. You can check out the members and statements here: csa-iot.org/members/. At the point where a vendor supports Matter they will have to enable others with their products. Keeping your data will always be a problem but that is true for every aspect where you interact with the internet. This can be mitigated by running your smarthome offline, which Matter also allows for. So yes Matter doesn't solve all problems but it reduces them, offers interoperability and enables smaller device makers to build their own products.
I don't understand what makes matter over-Wi-Fi devices interoperable if we still need a hub according to the ecosystem. For example, if we use Google Home, we need a google home hub, if we use a Apple homekit then we need an Apple hub, and so on for Amazon. There should not be any requirement of hub if matter is just an application layer on top of other protocols. We understand for matter over thread a border router is is required to connected thread network to external internal IP network but for matter of Wi-Fi, it does not make sense at all use an external hub.
The Matter Wi-Fi devices need to be in the same virtual network (Matter fabric) that is a virtual private network in which all Matter devices and controllers talk to one another. This Matter fabric is usually what you get from your hub. At the minimum you always need a Matter controller and a Matter device. The easiest way would be to get for example a Nest mini speaker to control your devices. If you are working on a Nordic dev kit and run into a problem we recommend to reach out to our tech support team on DevZone: devzone.nordicsemi.com/ There is also a follow up webinar on this one where the topic is how to develop a Matter product: th-cam.com/video/9Ar13rMxGI/w-d-xo.html
Yeah thanks for coming together to unify. But the future of smarthomes is not wifi/cell/Ethernet. I will go back to to ancient times having to use candles and lanterns in my house before I install a single wifi anything. Your router should not be your smarthome hub.
I agree and that is also not what is happening here. For most smarthomes you have some sort of hub and that is often connected to your router. In the case of matter you don't have a single hub (like you have now) you can have multiple devices to connect to the outside world. These can work independent of your router.
Yes that is correct. The future of the smart home will not be in any single protocol. The key with Matter is that you're not forced to use one. Matter is an Application layer on top of different IP-based protocols. This even enables more protocols to be added in the future. Thread is ideal for low-power smart home devices and works without connection to your Wi-Fi router. It uses the same radio as Zigbee. And for the applications that need more bandwidth, you're able to use Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi also has gotten a lot more "low-power" friendly with the integration of TWT and MU-MIMO.
Very nice video, TNX.
Wonderful explanation
Good Introduction. Thanks
I don't quite understand the two Thread Border router architecture that you mentioned in the last section. For the NCP architecture I understand the reference app for the host side does not exist but for RCP architecture, do you mean we can find a platform(SoC) that supports Matter(Thread stack) or we can integrate it in host processor platform? Does Nordic has host processor for RCP architecture? Thank you.
I found Nordic announced nRF7002 (Wi-Fi 6 Companion IC) this year. What kinds of architecture you mentioned in this video is it? Thanks.
@@Fan0315 Nordic provides a reference implementation for the connectivity part (RCP) for nRF52833 and nRF52840: developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/samples/openthread/coprocessor/README.html
When it comes to the host part, a reference implementation is provided within the OpenThread project: github.com/openthread/ot-br-posix
This implementation requires a POSIX-based platform like Raspberry Pi; Nordic does not provide such solutions within its portfolio but developers can bundle a Nordic Dev Kit with e.g. Raspberry Pi to create a PoC solution
Does thread allow application layer specific commands to be routed via thread FTDs that don’t support that application layer? For example, can I send a command to a matter endpoint in the future via a thread router that doesn’t itself support matter?
Hi Charlie, it is possible to create a device that supports and another communication protocol on IPv6 to send for example CoAP messages. However, a node that does not support Matter cannot send a Matter command to Matter-compliant devices for security reasons. You would need to have a dedicated gateway in that case.
@@NordicSemi but I thought thread was supposed to be application layer agnostic - therefore, all thread matter /HomeKit / google devices share the same thread network.
@@Charlie-cc6vo It is agnostic in the sense that you can use Thread with different application layers. Right now if you have two different Thread networks (one for HomeKit and one for Nest devices for example) they do not use the same application layer. If you use Zigbee for example you must use the Zigbee application layer. Also using the same application layer does not imply being able to send/receive data to devices being in a different Network. Devices still need to be commissioned into a network. If that were not the case anyone could just buy a light switch and control their neighbor's lights.
@@NordicSemi I guess what I want to know is whether thread allows sending matter commands via thread routers that aren’t themselves matter endpoints, to other matter endpoints.
For example, my Nanoleaf essentials will not be updated to matter. But they are thread. In future, they should be still able to relay matter commands to other matter devices despite not being matter application layer compatible themselves right? Because of thread and how it is application layer agnostic.
@@Charlie-cc6vo The short answer is "No it doesn't work like this". The non-Matter Thread devices and the Matter over Thread devices are not in the same network. Being agnostic only means the device makers are free in selecting their application layer. It does not mean all thread devices will be able to relay messages from other Thread devices. Your best bet is to get any of the Matter border routers that can control your nanoleaf as well as act as a matter border router. You might already be using one of those. It would be an Apple HomePod mini, Apple TV, Google Nest Hub 1st and 2nd gen, some amazon Echos for example. Keep in mind Nordic is a semicondictor supplier. We enable devlce makers to build matter devices and don't always know how the final implementation will look like. I am sure you will be able to get it working somehow. The correct place to ask for specific information on this would be Nanoleaf in this case. We hope this helps.
Why BT/BLE is not used for device-device or device-controller communications in Matter?
Bluetooth Low Energy is a great solution for the device to device communication in Matter we only use Bluetooth LE for commissioning. For the low-power Matter devices Thread is used even tough Bluetooth can fulfill a similar role. Matter is IP-based as is Thread, and another big point is that Thread is application layer agnostic.
Could matter connect with LoraWAN based devices for a smart application?
This is possible, but not natively. You would need a Matter bridge which translates between Matter network and LoRaWAN.
Why is the specification kept private for members? That is not how open source works.
What is open-source is the implementation of Matter, not the entire technology. Until a specification developed within Connectivity Standards Alliance is adopted it is available only to the alliance members on particular tiers of membership. Additionaly, according to Connectivity Standards Alliance Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) Policy RANDz Licenses are granted when a Member's product is Certified to comply with an Adopted Specification. Members confirm that their product is compliant with the applicable Adopted Specification(s) through successfully completing the Alliance's Certification Program, with the resulting product being "Certified" by the Alliance.
Can we connect the matter devices directly to apple home app, alexa app and google home app without installing the 3rd party app to link to it?
Since matter is a open source, can the manufacturer able to adopt matter standard to bring the product to market without getting the certification?
Yes, you can connect Matter devices directly, that is exactly what Matter was made for. You can expect most large smart home systems to work with Matter devices.
No, you need to confirm that a device will work with Matter and comply. Each manufactor will work with the Connectivity Standard Alliance (CSA) on this. For a standard like Matter there needs to be some sort of control to make sure quality requirements are met.
@@NordicSemi While that seems interesting and valuable, we are collectively familiar with how "the middle man" ends up in control of access to specific devices and pricing of all devices because they want their share of "cash" that is going between consumers and product manufactures. There just has to be a better way than another layer of people to employee and manage and control the outcomes!
@@wondamaner Hi, yes we are familiar with that kind of system and this was a big concern when the discussion around Matter started. This does not apply to Matter. There are already many different border routers that give "access". You could even get a Thread capable Wi-Fi Router for your Home Network and use that. Matter is made specifically to not be a walled garden.
@@NordicSemi As long as software is the mechanism, than we can pick and choose products. The problem is that "hardware" vendors have been in charge of home automation for a long time. Frequency/band/modulation-type isolation has been a big problem. Even having matter as the gateway between them, doesn't guarantee that all manufactures will implement or even want to implement a Matter gateway for their product line. They must be compelled by the strengths of the platform, and their own ability to deliver something valuable in functionality, quality and price/performance. Google/Nest is interesting, but only if you don't believe that Google is ignoring all the meta-data that your home/system can provide them. This is ultimately the problem as well. As soon as "devices" have access to the internet, you really have to worry about what it is they can see on your network and what they are telling someone else about it.
Hi @@wondamaner, you have some good points. When it comes to which vendors will implement Matter we already have statements from the biggest ones that they will. You can check out the members and statements here: csa-iot.org/members/. At the point where a vendor supports Matter they will have to enable others with their products. Keeping your data will always be a problem but that is true for every aspect where you interact with the internet. This can be mitigated by running your smarthome offline, which Matter also allows for. So yes Matter doesn't solve all problems but it reduces them, offers interoperability and enables smaller device makers to build their own products.
I don't understand what makes matter over-Wi-Fi devices interoperable if we still need a hub according to the ecosystem. For example, if we use Google Home, we need a google home hub, if we use a Apple homekit then we need an Apple hub, and so on for Amazon. There should not be any requirement of hub if matter is just an application layer on top of other protocols. We understand for matter over thread a border router is is required to connected thread network to external internal IP network but for matter of Wi-Fi, it does not make sense at all use an external hub.
The Matter Wi-Fi devices need to be in the same virtual network (Matter fabric) that is a virtual private network in which all Matter devices and controllers talk to one another. This Matter fabric is usually what you get from your hub. At the minimum you always need a Matter controller and a Matter device. The easiest way would be to get for example a Nest mini speaker to control your devices.
If you are working on a Nordic dev kit and run into a problem we recommend to reach out to our tech support team on DevZone: devzone.nordicsemi.com/
There is also a follow up webinar on this one where the topic is how to develop a Matter product: th-cam.com/video/9Ar13rMxGI/w-d-xo.html
Yeah thanks for coming together to unify. But the future of smarthomes is not wifi/cell/Ethernet. I will go back to to ancient times having to use candles and lanterns in my house before I install a single wifi anything. Your router should not be your smarthome hub.
I agree and that is also not what is happening here. For most smarthomes you have some sort of hub and that is often connected to your router. In the case of matter you don't have a single hub (like you have now) you can have multiple devices to connect to the outside world. These can work independent of your router.
Yes that is correct. The future of the smart home will not be in any single protocol. The key with Matter is that you're not forced to use one. Matter is an Application layer on top of different IP-based protocols. This even enables more protocols to be added in the future. Thread is ideal for low-power smart home devices and works without connection to your Wi-Fi router. It uses the same radio as Zigbee. And for the applications that need more bandwidth, you're able to use Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi also has gotten a lot more "low-power" friendly with the integration of TWT and MU-MIMO.
@@NordicSemi Thread is a problematic choice of names. It should be some innocuous name that doesn't have any particular meaning today.