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Thank you for sharing our mission Dr Geoff! If anyone's interested in getting the full picture of issues like the one in this video, check out the link in the description and let us know if you have any questions.
@@ground_newsyour app seems based around the notion of {{citation needed}}, I think it'd be neat if you heavily encourage those you sponsor provide a list of sources in a reasonable format so that viewers can not only cross check claims but also further educate themselves.
I noticed something similar as you mention at 17:30 in the speech of @GlennKirschner2 especially when he says "Justice matters" / "Justice madders" His "t" and "d" are very similar.
This is fascinating stuff! Thank you for this well researched and presented video! I'm wondering whether there is such a thing as a "nasal stop" (as opposed to a recognized in linguistics, i.e. where one produces the syllabic n (in "important" ) using and "explosive" burst of air by closing the back nasal passage rather than a glottal stop -- or am I thinking of a secondary characteristic of producing a "t"? I find making a "nasal stop", if there is such a thing, at least in the word "important" also requires the tip of the toungue touching the roof of the mouth in order to make the subsequent "n" sound.
"Ride on time" was a 1990 dance music hit. It has that title because the Italian house musicians misheard "Right on time" in the hook that they sampled.
that's funny bc i'm an american born in the late 90s and i would pronounce "ride on time" with a more traditional tongue flap but "right on time" with a glottal stop
I'm from the piney woods of East Texas, where we're likely to just get rid of Ts all together if they're not flapped, though they'll get a glottal stop occasionally. The best example I've got is from a story my dad's best friend was telling at the deer lease a few years ago. In the story, he had to "climb da wahr tahr fer sum'n.'" For those people who aren't from East Texas, that's, "climb the water tower for something," but the first T was tapped, second dropped entirely, third annunciated, and fourth stopped.
I really have to say that I think your videos are the best thing on youtube. Not only are they well-edited, -presented etc., but above all they feel cutting-edge - the equivalent of reading a new article, not a reference handbook. Thank you.
These videos always have me babbling to myself, hopelessly trying to figure out which way I “usually” say things. I think in casual speech I use the flap, but if I were to narrate something or speak deliberately, I’d have more glottal stops
Yeah - there is a bias in recorded speech to people using "presentational" speech which tends towards over emphasis. There just aren't as many free and easy to find recordings of people talking like they're chatting over coffee - but this video does still show which way speech in general is trending, if people are getting broadly more comfortable with this variety of emphasis.
That's interesting, because I would say that I use the flap in casual speech, but that in formal speech I would be more likely to fully pronounce the "t" sound rather than using either flap or "glottal t".
Yeah, as someone who generally speaks fairly standard Southern British English but lives in an area with a lot of fairly strong Estuary accents that glottalise loads of things, I realise just how massively it varies how much I glottal stop things depending on how casually I'm talking, and who I'm talking to. It's impossible to gauge how much I do it "usually"!
@@maxtonuponrySame. I notice that I pronounce it as a flap, "t", and glottal stop with roughly the same frequency. If I'm feeling lazy or casual, I'll drop the flap. In most other cases, I'll go with the glottal stop. And if formality is a concern or I want to emphasise something, I'll go with the full "t". For reference, I'm a speaker of estuary English with some American and Russian influences.
I was raised in Michigan, am older, and definitely heard people saying "bu'in" for button and "mi'in" for mitten even back then. I thought it was a Midwestern thing, but now I have a friend, same age as me, who was raised in Connecticut and also does this.
I do it in Utah, so yep, apparently its pretty widespread. A little sad cause i thought it was a kinda unique thing to utah accents but nah, guess not.
I'm pretty young and I cannot comprehend someone saying the words button or mountain without a glottal stop. It would sound utterly strange to me. I recently saw a video of someone using a flapped t in "Satan" and it took me a second to even comprehend what he'd said because I've never once in my life heard that said without a glottal stop.
That's also a distinctive feature of some Connecticut accents, yes. I grew up in the wrong part of Connecticut to have it but people always bring it up
As a 22 year old from indiana, I think I do a glottal stop in most words with a middle T?? “it’s ho’ in here”, “something’s ro’in in the state of Denmark” “ge’ with i’”
I don't know why he's rhoticizing like that in this video. He's using [quasi-]Irish sounds. I *know* Dr. Lindsey can pronounce "certain" in a perfect Standard American accent, but here he sounds like an actor from a cheesy Britcom!
Irish sounds? I'm from Ireland and he sounds American to me when he makes those sounds. Nothing like Irish. Maybe accent sounds are relative to the hearer.@@Vinemaple
@Vinemaple I'm Australian, and it's hard for those of us who don't habitually use a rhoticised 'r' to try and imitate it. As for Americans attempting an Aussie accent, don't get me started 😂😂😂
I'm a native German speaker, who's spent some time in Australia and went on to study English linguistics. In my seminar on accents during my studies, I analyzed my own accent as largely American with sprinkles of Australian. So, I was quite taken aback when I noticed that I've recently begun replacing the t in "that" by a glottal stop. It seems, I've also picked up on this trend. Thank you for this fascinating video!
Do you use glottal stops (hard attack) before vowels when you speak English? I'm an Australian who spent a decade in Germany and the way German has affected my English is that, words like "open" sometimes come out of my mouth with a syllabic /m/ instead of a schwa then /n/: [ɐʉ̯p̚m̩] ... just like "haben" → "habm". I asked an Aussie friend of mine who said he's sure he's heard other anglophones do that, but I've never come across it. In any case, I'm sure I've picked it up from German rather than from other English speakers.
That's funny because I'm an American who had lots of Aussie friends growing up and I definitely think I picked up parts of the accent. I would be very curious to hear yours. I use a lot more glottal stops than the average American for sure. Even in two of the examples "cotton" and "biting."
Oh no sir! Hi, middle-aged general american here, in response to 23:00, cotton, button, and mountain, have always contained glottal stops, for me and most everone else I know. (Well, possibly a glottal stop along with an unreleased T closure, but certainly a glottal stop.) Your other three examples; "biting", "proud of", and "city" - yes, those are flaps. -- Your stuff is excellent! Thank you so much for doing this!
While watching this video, i got an ad for chocolate, and the (seemingly American) speaker said "treat yourself" with a glottalized t! I love your videos, every time i watch i learn something new about the way i speak. Thank you for making this content! (Also, as a young American girl, i personally use glottal t all the time, i haven't noticed much of a gender bias around it in my personal life)
That one's pretty interesting because you'd expect the /t/ to be palatalized and affricated if it weren't glottalized - the whole yod-coalescence thing going on there. So maybe there's an avoidance of that?
I'd love to think that the TH-cam ads algorithm selected that ad for you while watching this video on the basis that you would probably be interested in that feature of their speech...! 😆
Why do you choose to watch ads? This is a question I’ve been curious about since I was a child. I’ve always chosen not to watch them, so I don’t understand why anyone would want to watch them.
I live in the Midwest. I first noticed people online using this in “mountain” and “important,” and it really bothered me. I still don’t hear it much in person, except in younger children. I found this video really informative - I realized I don’t bat an eye when older people say “moun-nn,” while I say “moun-tin,” but hearing “moun-in” was irritating. The more things change the more they stay the same 😂
I also live in the Midwest, and I have family a few hours away in a town called 'Morton'. My father always gets on my siblings and I because we pronounce it "Mor[ʔ]in", while he pronounces it "More-tin". This video sort of directly relates to that distinction, and now I can't stop hearing it everywhere else in my speech!
Some years ago, I was trying to add a greeting to my voicemail system. My message included the phrase, “I can’t come to the phone right now” but when I listened to what I had recorded, I heard, “I can come to the phone right now.” I erased it and tried redoing it about 4-5 times, each time with the same result, until I got frustrated and ended with recording myself saying, instead, “I can NOT come to the phone” as that was the only way the message would make sense when played back. The voicemail system simply couldn’t properly record my implied “t” in “can’t.” (I’ve always referred to it as an implied T in my own speech. Like saying maow-n for mountain, or as was in the video, cur-n for curtain.)
@@snotrajohnson Sounds like in that situation not being British was a disadvantage. 'Can' & 'Can't' have a completely different vowel sound to each other around most of the UK, and whether you drop the T or not, as a result, the machine would easily distinguish between the two words.
@@dieselpunk4117 There is a slight difference between the two as I say them, too, and I’ve never had anyone express trouble understanding when I use either one. It may have been more a quirk with the actual tape recording device for that landline phone. My local municipality is known for having its own (minor) accent, more strongly affected by Highland Scots and Irish, and probably some French/Acadian, than by English. Can’t say I think of it as a disadvantage, though!
I’m so glad you made this video. I had noticed the recent tendency among young Americans to say, e.g., “impor’ent“ and was surprised to learn that my friends didn’t even know what I was talking about. Now I can send them this video, with its many examples.
Yeah! What happened to Americans saying "imporDant/imporDint"? Honestly, I think all those Ts disappearing are quite clearly linked to the rise of acceptability and "coolness factor" of the way things are pronounced in AAVE which has "cen[t]er stage" in youth culture in the USA, and influencing English dialects around the world through Hollywood. "Firs[t], secon[d], cen[t]er, almos[t], wors[t], impor[t/d]an[t], exper[t], worke[d], in[t]erestin[g]", and many other words have a flapping sound or a complete absence of sound in very many AAVE sociolectal variations... but there are also cases of "white" accents and dialects in Northern areas of the USA influenced by Southern & Southwestern US dialects that have characteristics clearly linked to the "white" speech forms that were very non-standard and the same origin nexus as AAVE in the first place. So, between their own southern, southwestern, or Northern dialects influenced by southerners who moved northward to work in factories and farms after the civil war, there are many reasons (including the high acceptability of AAVE among the youth of the USA), one must acknowledge that American English IS changing since linguistic prescriptivism of pronunciation in educational environments lost the culture war between the 1980s and 1990s, so speech is changing a lot.
Yes!! I always feel a slight attack from these glottal stops. I myself trail off with an 'n' sound. A lot of friends seem like they're adding a whole other syllable--I guess it's a glottal stop.
I don’t study language or anything like that, but I find these videos endlessly fascinating. I also typically feel extremely self conscious afterward, so thanks for that 😅
In Spielberg's Lincoln, actor Jared Harris (as General Ulysses S Grant) does a near-perfect rural Northern Illinois accent until his final line where he pronounces the words January 18th and gives away some of his native accent by pronouncing them "Janury eighdeenth" instead of the full Illinois way of ""Jan-u-ary eighTeenth".
One thing I absolutely love about this channel is that it often helps me to better speak and understand languages other than English. Your explanation about hard attacks in German was such an ear-openner! On the course of following this channel, I've become a better speaker of English, French, and German. Three languages for the price of a single youtube subscription. Thank you so much.
I just want to say that your videos always surprise me a lot. I couldn't even imagine that these bits specifically hide so much behind them. Thank you for fueling the linguistic curiosity with every episode!
Thank you very much for not judging the younger generation. I study acting and everytime someone tells me young people's speech is bad because they are lazy and watch too much tv, a little bit of my inner linguist dies. You gave me an argument for the next time my patience inevitably runs out and I start explaining that no, that is not how any of this works 😁 You genuinly made my day ❤
I’m not sure about speech, but their writing, mine included, is generally horrid. It’s astonishing how you can read writers from, say, the 1680s, and then open the New York Times--nearly all of whose writers clearly think of themselves as being the most advanced and enlightened beings in all of history, the apex of all Progress ever--and the writing in the latter is of such an objectively inferior quality. It repulses me.
American here. When my Ukrainian aunt was first learning English, I was talking to her about something and said the number 20. She looked confused and asked me to repeat it. Speaking more slowly, I pronounced it as "twun-ty". But she shook her head and said that wasn't how I had said it originally. It turns out that I actually do completely drop the t in 20 in casual speech, pronouncing it like "twunny."
Learning spoken language > learning written language. We were fluent in our first language before we learned to write it. And written English isn't an alphabet so much as a semi-etymologising logography based loosely on Latin.
This sounds like the /nt/ flapping mentioned briefly in the video. As Lindsey alludes to, this is somewhat complicated. This is very common in North American dialects especially in the north eastern US and Canada. (Note the stereotypical examples of internet and Toronto.) In addition to a difference in formal and informal speech, you may have some variation between pronunciation in the same register.
Yes Sir , I totally agree on that. Really dangerous thing,this heart attack,I mean hard attack, or was it the other way round?So confusing those conspiracy theories…
I’m 63, American, and grew up in Maryland, now live in Colorado. I say ‘button’ with what I guess is a tongue ‘tap’ for the ‘t’ but it’s not a tap and release. My tongue stays up and then I go straight to the ‘n’. My sons seem to do the same. My daughter, however, does a full glottal version of the t. She grew up here in Colorado. It’s so noticeable to me, and I do tend to notice that more in people her age (early 30s) and younger. She seems unaware of the difference. I might have her watch this episode. I love these--fascinating. Not only the main content, but the way you slide into your adverts imperceptibly. This is both humorous and maddening.
another colorado immigrée here, originally from mississippi, and it's shudderingly clear how much the local accent involves glottalizing. it sounds _so_ ignorant and non-credible to my ear. for lack of a better term, ghetto.
I also grew up in MD, and am in my mid-40s. I do the same as you with button. It drives me mad to hear someone either do "buh-en" with the full glottal stop and vowel - which my sister does, and she grew up in the same places as me, just 7 years behind - *or* to flap the Ts really heavily and do the vowel to get all the way to "budden". Madness.
I’m from Colorado and yeah pretty much everyone my age (early 20s) does the full glottal stop for words like “button” or “mountain”, my mom is from Baltimore and she’s one of the few people I know who sometimes voices those “t” sounds
I'm 74 and have lived in Maryland since the age of four. I say it the same way you do: the tongue goes to the palate and stays there through the n. I pronounce almost all such words that way. I have noticed that people in the Carolinas use a d sound in many such words, like "buddon" or "impordant". And they pronounce "sentence" as "sennance". I have always been fascinated with the very odd pronunciation which I call "Duntalk", since it seems that nearly everyone raised in Dundalk talks that way. Where else in the English-speaking world do people pronounce "water" as "wooder"? Or "hon" as "hoing"? Since you are a Marylander, I'm sure you've heard it many times. Hey, maybe you're a Duntalker, yourself! Edit: Oh, another feature of this area is called the "dark L". With words that begin with L, people will pronounce the L almost like a W, with the tongue never reaching the palate. I remember one person who pronounced his own name, Larry, that way. In fact, he's the one who introduced me to the term, "dark L". He was a psychologist, and kept that pronunciation despite going to a fine prep school and having an Ivy League college education. LOL, I remember that the prep school was Loyola, which he pronounced "Woyowa" (approximately). Edit AGAIN: Wow, I just remembered that the dark L is _very_ common in the Cockney accent!
Great to read these replies-thanks for sharing them. @Astrobrant2, I grew up in Manchester (northern Carroll County). I still catch myself saying certain phrases from there. My Merlin-ese was never pure, as my parents both grew up in Nebraska, so I was a linguistic mongrel, I guess. My peers would make fun of my NOT saying ‘wooter’ for water, etc. 😂
My girlfriend has general American pronunciation and was surprised to learn that "kiddy pools" had nothing to do with small cats after hearing me say it with my British pronunciation and realising it wasn't with a T.
Early 20’s American guy. I definitely have a glottal stop in words like button, cotton, gotten, etc. This seems to work across word-boundaries for me, provided the following syllable is [weak vowel + n], as in “cat in the hat” or “caught in the rain” or “bat an eyelash”. I don’t think I do glottal stops across word boundaries when the following syllable isn’t [weak vowel + n], e.g., “one cat alone”, “caught off guard” or “bet on it”, where instead the Ts are tapped.
Yeah, 21 general American accent (Midwest to be specific) and I definitely use glottal stops for button, Cotten, and gotten, and I don’t think this is a new thing either. If you listen to the Tennessee Ernie Ford song “Union Dixie” from 1961, he says “where cotton’s king and men are chattels” with a glottal stop I’m pretty sure. Maybe because he’s singing it isn’t a good example though?
Funny enough, it's the same for me with one exception. If I say "leave that cat alone", I would say it with the tap. But if I say "one cat, alone", I do glottalize the 't' in 'cat', because I tend to insert hard attack a lot more where a natural pause (like at a comma) precedes it. I don't unpack syllabic 'n' as much as a lot of people my age do, though. Mid-20s, general American (moved around a lot, but my high school and college years were in the mid-Atlantic), suburban/semi-rural.
@@menow. It wasn't like that when I was there. American have let standards slide in many areas, lignguistic sloppiness is now the order of the day. I hate the constant use of the word "literally".
Most ppl blindly follow their peers to gain their acceptance, & copying group speech is a type of following. Social acceptance is such a powerful need that you'll see it everywhere, all our lives. @@menow.
I'm a vocal music teacher, and I love your videos! They help SO MUCH with helping students sing sounds they CAN do but often don't think they can! Many Rs should be flipped in sung English but are not flipped in standard American English, but this has been so helpful!
As a corollary, an English speaker who is diligent about fluency in a language unrelated, e.g. Athabascan (Native American), Xhosa, etc. may find being a proficient musician can be helpful. Phrasing, meter, structure, pitch, tonality, expression, attack, retardation, diminution, and the capability of the instrument itself are part of the "language" of music. So it is with the comprehension of sound produced by one who is speaking.
I'm an American in my 50s and only discovered recently as a result of a language survey here that I drop my Ts occasionally. I don't do it much, only in very specific situations, but I hadn't realized I was doing it at all and it came as a bit of a shock. I'm quite gratified to learn more about some of the reasons for it in this video!
Hi Geoff, great video! I would purport that maybe your sample data could be skewed by the "TH-cam accent" that a lot of content creators use, which can be quite different than the way that people talk normally in the US. With that said, I do notice the younger generation adopting some of this "TH-cam dialect" and delivering their words as if they were presenting information on TH-cam. This is to say nothing of your evidence and conclusions in the video! I just wanted to mention something I am aware of as a GenZ/Millenial cusper from the US Northeast
The TH-cam instructional video pronunciation of "the" before a consonant sound is epidemic, eg "thee computer." Professional speakers do NOT do this. I think they do it to sound more precise or exact. And they don't do it all the time.
I agree, but as children become more and more raised on said "youtube accent" there becomes more and more younger speakers whose accents are molded by it. I agree that hard attack is much less common in normal American speech. It's really mostly used as a "stage accent" practice.
@@WGGplant 100%! Tangentially: I would be curious to hear if the Mid-Atlantic accent had an influence of accents in the Anglosphere. That seems to be a somewhat analogous cultural phenomenon.
I noticed this too! Especially the unpacked syllabic-n version immediately clicked for me as "youtuber and/or teen accent" (which I definitely did not realize was a distinct thing in my mind until watching this!)
Eh, I doubt -- yes, alot of you tubers may try to slow down and be a bit more precise, but a lot of that was pretty unselfconscious, fluid, natural speach. Sound pretty natural and normal to me.
I think I have a new euphemism, to use during the holidays.... to 'Not Give a Flying Reindeer'. 🤣 As an older Maritimer (East Coast of Canada) I find that I actually pronounce my T's, in most of these words. But also being Canadian, the American and British pronunciations sound normal for American and British accents. We tend to be exposed to both, a lot. and just go with the flow. As always... a fascinating video Dr Lindsey.😊
I live near the border and listen to a lot of CBC, and I've noticed Canadian radio presenters elide consonants and syllables in weird ways. I regularly hear "Cneenian" (Canadian), "Chronno" (Toronto), and "pleece" (police) on the CBC.
I have just discovered your channel and I love it. My own insights as a Gen-X flat/standard midwest american english speaker (originally from Ohio, a state with a large German and English historical ancestry, and where major cities had german language public schools well into the early 20th century), my spontaneous reaction is that the hard attack vs the flap pronunciation between words has a lot to do with emphasis and urgency tone. When generic middle-Americans try to sound angry or intense, we also try to sound stereotypically German, and this is tied to popular culture in late 20th century media depictions of angry/intense German accents in film and television. So I think the flap sounds more "calm" (NOT "carm" ;) and the glottal stop sounds more "urgent". You (Dr Lindsey) pointed out when it appeared idiosyncratically in one of the videos of a You Tuber talking about the columbian exchange of eurasian crowd diseases in Hispanola, and I think you might be able to hear the contextual difference of the two pronunciations of the same phrase. In the first case he was emphatically / intensely introducing the fact, and in the second case he had relaxed his tone and was mentioning it in passing, as a mere matter of fact rather than a matter of intruigue. So as the intensity of speech declined, the flap replaced the stop.
I am so glad to see you address this. I first started hearing it back in the late 80s, in central NY state, and thought it was regional and socioeconomic. Since then, of course, it has come to be everywhere. The surprising thing is that many people seem not to be able to hear it. When I point out how we used to say a word, compared to how it's now said, look blank and say they never noticed.
That’s wild asf. That’s j how language changes goes ig. Nb speaking it realizes it’s changing until it’s completely unrecognizable centuries later. Ship of Theseus type shii
I'm always so amazed by your videos... I'm Brazilian and I think that I learned my English 95% by myself. First I learned how to read and write, then listen, and the last thing was my pronunciation. The problem is that I love British series, movies (Harry Potter fan), audio books by BBC etc., but most of the material that I consume is in American English. So you can imagine that my pronunciation is all over the place. Watching your videos has been great to understand where I can improve. I love watching them and going back and forth trying to learn how to identify the "vocal phenomena" that you describe. You're truly amazing!
I remember hearing an Indian man speak at a conference, and he would pronounce certain words with a different accent than others. You could tell that he must have picked up certain words from someone in the American south, and then a few others would sound more British. It was fascinating.
@@lucylane7397 Right. I find it fascinating that on TH-cam I encounter quite a few non-native English speakers who have 99% perfect American English, but after a few minutes I can tell that they are non-native. Typically it's not a question of "accent", but rather, that they speak more precisely than a native. A true native has more tendency to use sloppy speech, slurring words, etc.
@@bhami I work and teach English abroad and this is a common myth that English teachers put in their students' heads. "Wow! You speak better than native speakers!" In every language that you study, you'll find that native speakers do not speak or pronounce things precisely as they are "supposed to" due to something known as colloquial speech. I worked in Poland for some time. Polish tends to stick to the "rules". Despite my studying, I would still struggle to understand a colleague of mine when she was having casual chat with another colleague. The reason is because natural and colloquial speech don't follow textbook "rules." While there are cases of some people who may slur their speech, colloquial speech and dialect isn't "sloppy." Speaking in a manner that is hyper and excessively "proper" comes off as pompous and makes it difficult for language learners to have authentic conversations and connections with the people they wish to interact with. "How do you do?" vs "How's it goin'?" Both give off and invite different kinds of energy.
I am really curious about something. I have heard something in the voice of some female TH-camrs from the California area. They seem to end each word with a slight "a" sound, as I hear it. So it sounds like they are saying: "welcome-a to-a my-a youtube-a channel". It's like the "a" after every word makes the words smoother like a liaison. It's almost like subconsciously they don't want to have a silence so they just keep making a filler sound in between words. I am not a linguist so I have no idea what I am hearing and why that happens only with some TH-camrs. Is it just my ears or is this a thing and might it have a name?
Hello Dr Lindsey, Recently I was watching a video with a Welshman speaking welsh English. He had an unusual way of connections within words that I have never seen before. You have spoken at length about dropping the T and replacing it with a glottal stop in some English accents (I.e. words like "Better" become (Beh'ah") but this fellow put an R in instead. In fact, just about every instance where there was a T in the middle or the end of the word, he replaced it with an R. So instead of saying "Forget about it" he said "Forge'r abour'it". I thought it was a conscious affectation at first but I listened to him speak for about 3 hours and he was consistent. It's like he had the London dropping-of-T-'s-and-putting-in-a-glottal-stop but took it a step further and hyper-intrusive-R'd all of those instances. Is this even a linguistic "Thing"? Thanks for all of the knowledge you've shared!
Welsh is one of the big influences on the Liverpool accent, so you see the same thing happening there. An R will often be inserted instead of a T; and at other times the T will be softened to an S (as has happened in German, resulting in 'out' becoming aus). So 'get out!' becomes more like 'gerrowse'.
Late reply, but yes! It happens especially in Liverpool, but more broadly across accents in the Midlands and north of England. Sometimes it's called the "T-to-R rule". Here's an example of it being studied and documented (quite dense notes, but hopefully it shows that this is indeed a Thing in linguistics) - www.lel.ed.ac.uk/homes/patrick/lancshnd.pdf
Dr. Geoff, as a former linguistics grad student I am absolutely fascinated by your incredibly insightful videos! I am originally from the Midwest, am a practicing lawyer in Texas, and have also lived and practiced law in New Orleans. You did a video a while back on ask vs aks and the social constructs that go with it. In New Orleans there is a well-respected member of the judiciary who uses a very strong “aks” that would get a strong side-eye by the educated elite in Dallas but is perfectly acceptable in New Orleans. I’m wondering if you have ever studied the various accents in New Orleans. I find them fascinating and I would love to hear some of your analysis on any aspect of them. For example, a large sector of the population uses an accent that is very similar to a Boston accent.
I'm so glad you made this video. As an older American, I have been noticing the glottal t in younger people and my peers think I'm nuts when I mention it. Especially noticed in words like certain and important.
It's because they grew up watching that British show Peppa Pig. My cousin's kid would watch that show nonstop and now she sounds like an East End chimney sweep.
My grandmother is from the Bronx - she's 93 - she'll thro' 'le any "t" she can find. I grew up not 30 miles away but when I say a word like bottle it sounds more like boddle. When she says "pass me the boh' 'le" I think, "Nan, did you go to London for that word?"
@@johnnymidnight2982 I didn't grow up watching Peppa Pig or any British media at all really and I use glottal stops everywhere and always have. I'm pretty sure most linguistic science suggests that media consumption doesn't result in much if any lasting change to speech.
Dr Geoff, I started watching your videos out of sheer curiousity, kept watching because of how well you break everything down and make it understandable to people with no background in linguistics - but what I have learned from your videos helps me in my work! I'm a musician and I love using speech synthesis, which requires me to transcribe vocals into phonemes. I realised quite quickly that the "correct" phonemes makes synthesised speech/singing sound very strange and awkward, and your videos have helped me move past the trial and error method of getting natural sounding vocals!
A friend of mine who lives in Michigan has noticed that the glottalisation of t in younger speakers in “mountain”, “decanted” and “painter” results in a stressed nasalised vowel followed by ʔ and a schwa or barred i before the final consonant
Just experimented with a friend, I found that not only did they freely use regular t, flapping, and glottal stop + hard vowel attack, in some cases they even dropped the t completely and relied on the listener being able to hear differences between two vowels to recognize the t For example, in "legitimately", I noticed they dropped the first t (the second one was glottal) and pronounced the two i's as the "ih" in "kit" becoming a schwa (I'm not very good with IPA). I think some people could chalk up this sort of t-pronunciation as being lazy, but I do it too, so something else to think about...
"Legimately" sounds like a rapid speech pronunciation. We pretty much all do this. It's amazing how our brain reconstructs words that we only partially say.
@@Ravie3yeah, I'm from Iowa and the first T goes more into that T/D crossover sound with a touch more T on the second, the first one just feels like a weak letter
T-flapping is also common in some Australian accents. It's particularly noticeable in numbers like "thirty" and "forty," which combine British R-dropping and North American T-dropping in a single word!
It's almost the standard Australian pronunciation. Pronouncing the "t" in "water" or "butter," for example, rather than "wader", 'budder" would definitely make you stand out.
What I find interesting is how similar mutations in pronunciation arise independently, even in different languages. You see some of the same sorts of mutations happening in Portuguese that happen in English (the /z/ in Brazil turning into /ʒ/, the same way the /s/ in usual does in English). Or how certain /k/s in Russian, English and Italian mutated into /t͡ʃ/. Someone could write a linguistic law about it...
@BruceKvam, I don't think you can prove a law (in the scientific sense) for anything involving voluntary human action. Nevertheless, are academic terms for the shifts and mutations languages experience, and I'm sure many linguists have looked at how common they are. Assibilation is the s->sh, s->z, k->ch, g->j, etc. softening, I think.
40-something native midwesterner here: People here definitely T-tap and T-flap, but I've noticed in my own speech (especially my recorded voice), the T-tap and flap take on a pretty noticeable D sound. My S sounds are almost exclusively Z sounds, and P's in the middle of words take on almost B sound, and we may as well omit H sounds almost entirely. So something like "Pepperoni Pockpockets" sounds like "Pebberoni 'oddpawgedz" "Potassium" sounds more like "Bodazzeeum" and "Thirteen" becomes "Thurdeen" (I watch a lot of Aussie content, I blame them for this one specifically lol). I don't have a speech impediment or anything, but people here definitely notice and sometimes have a hard time understanding it. The unpacking of the syllabic N and hard attack both sound juvenile to me, in the sense that pre-school age children around here often do this. I've rarely heard any local adults speak that way, but of course I hear it all the time online. I strongly dislike how that sounds in adults, but the funny thing is that it bothers me FAR more to hear men do it than women. I love The Action Lab's content, but I cannot stand how the guy speaks. It makes me actively dislike the man, which is totally unfair, but there you have it. I've never been able to describe it any better than "he talks funny" until now. Some people probably think that about me, but hey, at least I don't talk like THAT! ;-)
This is so fascinating!! I used to speak a bit differently - I’m not sure why I changed certain pronunciations. I’m 40 and live in New England (NY-CT metro area). I used to use glottal stops/flaps for words like “mountain” and “counter” and have changed to pronounce those with sharp “t’s”. Most people in my region still use the stop or tap in those words. It might be because I used to work with toddlers and read them a LOT of books out loud - I wanted to speak very clearly for them and it seems to have changed my speech a lot. This is so so interesting! The hard attack seems to be dependent on what we’re talking about - we seem to use it a lot when we’re speaking in a lecture-type voice - and I’d actually wager that TH-cam has influenced it a lot because everyone tends to use the same exact delivery. Too be honest, most amateur people on TH-cam seem to speak in their videos like they’re eight year olds giving oral reports at school and it’s AWFUL lol it strikes me that hard attack stems from that place in people’s brains here in the states - people wanting to sound “professional” or “smart” and they revert to how they spoke in school. I’d also say that hard attack is IMMENSELY influenced by the Kardashians - their vocal fry and slower and more deliberate way of speaking (especially Kourtney) has both features.
I’m American and I must admit I never noticed these differences were age associated. I guess I just assumed these were regional differences - they all sound Northern to me. I’ll be paying more attention in the future!
I always thought Baby Boomers sounded like a bunch of hicks, no matter what part of the country they were from. 😂 My older brother told me that Gen X all talk like Valley Girls. Millennials sound kind of... urban to me, even my super successful cousin. Gen Z doesn't talk enough for me to make an analysis yet. But yes, there are differences. And that's just on this side of the Pond. I had a professor who had Mid Atlantic. What an accent!
@@sleekoduck My grandmother (wouldve been in her mid nineties by now if she were still around) had a very odd combination of factors influencing her speech. She was part of the Golden Generation, so she picked up a good chunk of the Mid Atlantic accent, meaning that to us younger Americans we thought she spoke like the Queen, but she was also pretty heavily steeped in Pennsylvania Dutch culture and accent, along with a hefty helping of Appalachian drawl. All in all, she sounded like a complete hillbilly trying to imitate British aristocracy. It was a little bit hard to keep a straight face when listening to her sometimes.
About 17 or 18 years ago, I worked in Texas with a man from Pittsburgh who did this with “button”, pronouncing it something like “bu n”. It wasn’t sure what he had said until he repeated it a bit later.
Hello Dr. Lindsay - I'm a Lithuanian that's lived in the UK for 13 years and when I originally came to the UK to Sheffield I sounded Australian for no reason whatsoever (to the point where me and my friends convinced an Aussie exchange student that I was from Sydney and he demanded to see my passport when we finally broke the news to him a year later). Today my accent wanders and meanders in weird ways, making Europeans believe I'm British, and Brits to be very confused. I think a key feature of my accent is genuine t-dropping (which is not at all a feature of Lithuanian, for example), rather than flapping or glottaling. Would you like to have a chat and see if you could make it into an interesting linguistics video?
Fascinating video. I first noticed this when I moved to NYC for my undergrad linguistics degree. I did student teaching at an elementary school in Chinatown. I heard the glottal T in "mountain" and "button" from the teachers, not just students. This was around 2014, where I was saying [ˈmaʊnʔn̩] and heard others more than 5 years my senior say [ˈmãʊ̃ʔɪn̩]. I say [ˈbʌt̚n̩] (no audible release [t]) but heard folks from New Jersey say [ˈbʌʔɪn̩]. The difference between these is my glottal stops for t might've been unreleased [t] most of the time (i.e., my tongue is alveolar ridge-bound), but for these New Jerseyites, I definitely noticed their glottal stops were following almost no tongue movement from the vowel position. This was incredibly noticeable with "button" since my STRUT vowel was "closed off" (the formants pinched a bit in praat) but for those who said "buh-in" the formants were much more even for the duration. But even for "mountain", they would nasalize the vowels and drop the "nt" so "mou-in".
Hello Dr. Lindsay, excellent video! I believe an aspect of this trend worth considering is the realities of a society that communicates more and more via microphone! A glottal stop has a much lower chance of creating a nasty plosive in your recording than a softened /t/ sound. To my American ears, a lot of the glottal stops seem to be replacing /t/ sounds that are more often hardened than say, in “city.” The examples you gave also only occur in places where the glottal stop doesn’t introduce any additional speaking time, preventing their adoption from interfering with the traditional rhythm of Standard American speech (stopping during “ci-iy” would introduce a surprising pause). One has to wonder if the trend has an origin in people cutting nasty plosives out of their recordings online (manually or by a de-essing program), eventually becoming adopted to avoid the need in the first place, and ultimately finding place in day-to-day speech! Additionally, I believe this could also provide a basis for the reintroduction of vowels after preexisting glottal stops before /n/. When recording my voice, I find a mostly nasal sound like /n/ is captured disproportionately quietly. This effect is amplified as microphone quality decreases, and further still when introducing VoIP compression and basic noise gating found in most software like Teams, Zoom, Discord, etc. Perhaps this is overselling the impact of digital communication, but I’m curious if this aspect has been considered in the wider literature. Cheers!
Hi Geoff, I have no past experience or education with linguistics or anything related, but I find myself really drawn to these videos. They’re really accessible without “dumbing down” (I wish I had a better way to say that) any of the information present. Thank you for making these, I’ve been enjoying the learning experience and find your videos endlessly interesting. Cheers
I was a bit sad that the "center"/"international" example didnt get more time, as someone with the winter-winner merger. But there is another complicated example that might deserve more exploration, which is T-flapping after L (e.g. "alter", "falter") where us Americans tend to disagree. Notably, if you watch NFL games, you will notice a lot of variation in how the commentators and referees pronounce "Baltimore" and "penalty".
Is it a pure merger though? To me 'winter' does trigger the (intent of) a flap that can't be fully produced because of / n / and is absorbed by it. I feel a tiny difference but maybe it's just me.
The phonology section of the wikipedia page for American English says that intervocalic /nt/ can be reduced to a nasalized flap [ɾ̃] or just completely merge with /n/. Some people pronounce winner and winter both as [ˈwɪnɚ], some distinguish both as [ˈwɪnɚ] and [wɪɾ̃ɚ], and some maintain the original distinction between [ˈwɪnɚ] and [ˈwɪntɚ].
T-flapping is actually possible between two vowels AND two liquids. For example, the flap in 'chortle' is preceded by the retroflex liquid and followed by the lateral liquid.
I think this is one trend we’ve managed to from the American Midwest to the coasts! I’m pushing middle age, and I’ve been aware/self-conscious of this in my speech for quite some time. One particularly jarring episode illustrated it when I had to yell to my dad’s wayward dog Peyton: yelling “Pay’n” in an extended manner really emphasized the missing T.
I'm a 33 year old American from Southern California and the phenomenon heard at 11:40 drives me CRAZY. I'm hearing it more and more. It is for some reason very common in the state of Utah I've noticed.
About 60 years ago I noticed that a friend of mine said "di-dint" rather than "didnt". I don't know where he got it from. I still hear it from various people occasionally.
The words Button and Curtain always drive me nuts when people drop the T, then I catch myself. But then, how do you actually pronounce it? It sounds so weird to me, then I am not sure either. LOL. These two words I deal with, but someone in the comments mentioned the contraction 'di-dint" rather than "didnt'. I do not like it when someone says 'di-int'. Drives me crazy. Sorry if you do, nothing personal.
Yes, came here to say the same! I didn't really think about it until it was pointed out by EU/UK friends. I usually say "Inter-Net" rather than "InnerNet" 🤓
I am very glad I came across your video! Roughly one year ago, I was expressing to a friend my frustration & irritation of T & TT dropping. I expressed to my friend that I notice the T & TT dropping here in America occuring more often than ever before. Especially from those who were born in the mid 1980's & later. I cringe when I hear on national television, professional hosts/broadcasters dropping the T. I have truly enjoyef watching your video & reading the comments. I will be sure to check out your other videos!
Thanks for another great video! I've been noticing the t-glottalization before the syllabic n, while inserting a vowel, getting much more prominent in American English over the last five or so years, and it's been particularly striking how much more you've been hearing it in media, particularly podcasts,. A few observations to add, 1) the inserted vowel is often heavily nasalized, and in some speakers the n is actually getting quite week, and 2) I seem to notice it more in the speakers on the East Coast more than the West Coast (I live in California, admittedly this observation is anecdotal).
Thanks. It's also true that the glottal stop can be weakened practically to nothing, e.g. imporant, which I think bothers a lot of older folks! Re East/West, I definitely hear the opposite claim. I heard it in NM and James Orgill is a Utahn. According to the 2009 paper I showed in the video, "(1) glottal stops were favored by following front vowels; (2) younger female speakers were most likely to use glottal stops, which may indicate a change in progress; and (3) speakers from the Western United States glottalized more than speakers from other parts of the country." I'm skeptical about (2) and don't know about (3).
Utah makes sense. When I lived in Seattle about 10 years ago I had a coworker from Utah and we teased him for saying "bu[ʔ]in" (button) because it sounded like a toddler, we didn't know it was so common.
I wonder if this is a West-sans-California thing because I agree I don't hear the inserted vowel much in my own speech as a Californian or those of my peers there, but do in the speeches of people here in the Pacific Northwest where I live now.
Its interesting that all these ways of pronouncing T still register as being T, with the words still being completely understandable. It really speaks to how amazing the brain is.
Well they're all plosives, so there's certainly a similarity between all the different ways of saying it. I'd be interested to know why the brain feels that the glottal stop has more in common with the tongue tip 't' than another plosive like say "p". Is it just social conditioning or is it actually phonetically closer on some level? I can't immediately think of any examples in other languages which might give a clue as to which.
@@xergiok2322 I'd have to imagine it has to do with how our brain creates our perception of reality as much through predictions and past experiences, as through actual sensory input. That's why illusions can boggle us or we can hear words in white noise. It's fascinating that even though the brain can be pretty easily tricked, it still gets it right most of the time.
as a 30s californian who glottalizes before vowels and even before some syllabic Ls, ive always wondered how late down the line intervocalic t glottaling was in britain, or if it ever happened in nyc. i imagine the stigmatization alone would either prevent it or leave the environnement as the last to be affected here in north america
I'm curious if a lot of the American hard attack pronunciations are occurring when the younger generation is speaking in "presentation mode." Given that I'm sure they've consumed online content in a larger portion of their lives than the older generations, they probably picked up that presentational speech pattern in their produced content. I sort of hypothesis that these same people use more t flapping and "relaxed" speech patterns when not in "presentation/formal mode." Also, I bet if you go into an American TH-camr's years old content, they probably have more relaxed speech. Their current speech patterns are probably far more formal.
I think I make that exact distinction in my own speech. Somewhere up there Dr. Lindsey says he brings this exact thing up in his video about hard attack too.
This video has illuminated so much about my own speech patterns, it's just astounding to me. I am an American (Southern Californian) and I hard attack, and I am not even really "young" (mid-40s). I assume everyone younger than me and also from my region do so also (upon reflection I am certain all my local peers do). The hard attack does probably get more pronounced when I am speaking with emotion or with animation (i.e., excitement), or trying to speak persuasively (to convince or otherwise make a point), but, no, it is not merely "presentational", it just *is*, and if Dr G is to be believed, and I think he most certainly should be, the hard attack is almost assuredly why I glottal-T so many words that I, by conventional wisdom, shouldn't. It is the missing piece of the puzzle I've been looking for for a long time now.
I agree. I'm not a native English speaker, but we do this in German too. When I speak casually, I often omit glottal stops. "Hier hast du einen..." turns into "hier hasdn...", with three words melting into one. But I have a presentation mode too: when I care about getting a point across, being clear etc, I speak "more clearly" as I was taught, which means not ommiting glottal stops, vowels and so on.
I am from Dayton, Ohio. You always know when someone is not from here, by the way they say the name of the city. We say (Day-In), with a Glottal stop between the Day and In. People newer to the area pronounce the T or replace that with a D. We never say Day-Ton.
I picked up a hitchhiker in Vermont. I had Vermont tags but grew up in Maryland. The rider asked "Are you from Maryland?" I said, yes, how did you know? "You just said 'am-byoo-lance.' No one says ambulance like that except people from Maryland.
I find myself doing hard attack on vowels at the start of words when I am intentionally trying to enunciate or speak clearly, like in a presentation or when talking to a foreign English speaker
I live in Connecticut (where we're known to drop the "t" (glottal stop) off the end of "connecticut"... as well as dropping the second "c", and flapping the following "t"), but we do say "cotton" here with a glottal "t", like you mentioned at 23:00. There's also a town called "Clinton" which we pronounce with a glottal "t" and without the "n" before it. But there's a town called "Canton", where we do pronounce it with the "n" and a regular "t".
Our Canton in Ohio is usually said without the "t" Guess it just depends on how the person says "often" or "Bill Clinton" I'm from SW Ohio and don't say the "t" Edit:But my hometown, Hamilton, I do say the "t" many people don't though
My take on this is that it's a combination of two things: one, younger people are, I feel, more likely to put emphasis on speaking clearly, especially with the rise of social media. It's much easier for others to understand you when you're posting videos of yourself speaking if you are using hard attack to separate the words out more. Also, with the constant possibility of having your voice caught on video, I think you just become much more aware of how you speak. Two, it could be that because of the internet, we're exposed so frequently to such a broad range of accents, including UK ones, that our speech begins to unconsciously mirror the speech of those we constantly hear day-to-day. I can say that for me personally, I probably watch at least one video with a British person speaking at least once a day- not because I'm particularly an Anglophile, but because there just happens to be a lot of British people out there making videos.
I agree that young people posting videos may be trying to consciously enunciate so their viewers understand them, and the examples here were pretty much TH-cam and the like. But as a middle-aged American I found the two young women shown in the most examples to have affected pronunciations and sounded obnoxious - I'd click them off fairly quickly. And that guy, The Action Lab, he could be Californian by his harder Rs with some nasal twang thrown in that hurt my ears, certainly not Eastern or Mid-Western. Thankfully, the young people I'm around don't sound like these samples.
@Baard5Szomoru This has not been my observation. I have worked with students in the Midwest and Northeast, poor and wealthy ... and generally I'm surprised by their clearer enunciation. I recall headier times, especially when I watch shows from my childhood in the '90's. Young people are definitely interacting with a wider base of accents and English familiarity and are adapting to be better understood.
Young American speech tends more and more to be influenced by African American speech, both in lexicon and accent. I've always assumed the increase in hard attack is related to that. I also notice that especially with articles, where 'a' and 'the' sometimes only appear in their schwa form, without variation before vowels. This is accomplished by treating hard attack almost like a consonant
Yes, hard attack is quite consonantal. In my original blog, I suggested that if hard attack is a consonant, then /t/ before it could become a glottal stop anyway, so like doʔ com we get doʔ ʔorg. Then maybe the two glottal stops merge?
I love your delivery: you never fail to drop some hilarious easter eggs without breaking your informative and helpful tone. It's almost like deadpan comedy. Anyway: subscribed😁
big fan of your channel. so glad you brought up New Mexico here! (i would love to hear more of your linguistic experience in the region) ... having moved here as an adult, i am *still* taken back by the glottal stop (and more??) that happens on, for example, the word "mountain". my children now say this, and it is quite funny to be distracted by it in our own house. perhaps i will go post on the blog about this.
Magnificent, fascinating part of the world. My young speaker was the guide on a Breaking Bad-Saul tour! With those shows and the studios there, it feels cutting-edge but more light-hearted than the coasts. But I can't claim to have deeply analysed the state, I'm afraid.
I live near Canton, Ohio (named after Canton, China) and we can always spot a local versus an outsider by how they pronounce the city name. We use the glottal T and syllabic N to make it "Can'n" like "Moun'n" for "Mountain" versus an outsider's more complete "Can-ton."
Thank you for this video. I noticed this gradual change visiting the United States and Canada frequently particularly in speakers under 25. Always wanted to know more about it!
I first became aware of this trend 20 years ago, when the American rock band The White Stripes released the song, "The Hardest Button to Button." It was a glottal orgy! I found the sound quite grating, but of course this kind of pronunciation has proliferated in the U.S. since then.
The White Stripes are from Detroit and speak Inland North, specifically the Michiganese variant. There are a lot of glottal stops in Michiganese, and a number of them are carryovers from their German and Dutch ancestors. You can probably hear it in Kid Rock and Bob Seger songs as well.
Thanks for the video, I have been bothered by how many times I hear the first T dropped in the word “important “ now I know that it is a glottal T. It drives me nuts (lol) I’ll be checking out your channel more! Greetings from Seattle 😊
You are my new favorite creator! I love the variances in how people speak from region to region and am always so curious about them! Keep making content so i can be amazed by your knowledge!
Fascinating. Yes, as an American, I've definitely noticed these trends in younger speakers. And I do seem to notice them more in female speakers (things like bu-in for button, for example). I've also noticed the loss of the T at the ends of sentences, where there is no following sound. "Did you understand that part? becomes "Did you understand that par?"-so there seems to be an attack on the T all the way round. 🙂 On another subject, I also hear some (again mostly female) young speakers placing a glide in words. "I do, too" becomes "I dyoo tyoo."
Hmm, Dyoo tyoo...had not thought about that tyoo much 😉. I'm a central gulf coast Florida native (boomer) and have heard a southern "tyoo" that has long been common here, esp in the upper half of the state (closer to the deep south). I occasionally slide into it myself, although the sound is actually more "tuu" (lips less rounded than "too"). This goes with at least a tinge of southern, and that is how it differs from the "new" tyoo which has no southern surrounding it. These little quirks are so cyool!
I’m pretty sure I drop final ts (not sure it’s only T though). I have a friend who’s laughed at me for saying (because I say it frequently) perfect like perfik (“it wasn’t perfik”).
A few years ago, I started hearing the word "important," which I'm used to saying as "imporʔnʔ," being pronounced "impordinʔ" or "impordint." This video, while it doesn't have an example of this exact phenomenon, has helped me to understand it a little better.
There's a trend I've noticed in younger Americans where they do the stereotypical British working class glottal T to such a degree that it actually sounds like two separate words. For example, the word "certain". Instead of just replacing the T with a glottal stop, it's spoken as if it were two words, with the first word being pronounced fully rather than as a shortened weak form, and a hard attack on the second word. So instead of "certain", it sounds like "sir N". They almost pause and go completely silent between the two syllables. The first time I heard it was in a Collegehumor sketch called "Gluten free duck", which portrays a duck complaining about the bread it's being fed, saying things like "Does that bread have glue N? Because I can't eat glue N." It was exaggerated for the sketch, but after that I started hearing it everywhere.
I do the same thing with the word "button". To my parents, it sounds like I'm saying "Bu N", and they joke around about it a lot. I don't even notice I do it until someone points it out.
Since I was about 5, I've wondered why people (in south-west England) pronounce my name, Jordan, with some sort of back-of-the-throat /d/ that isn't quite a /d/ sound. Now I realise it's a result of the glottal stop + syllabic N together (I think). Thanks!
I always hear the KIT vowel you describe in Americans as more central and mid, like /ɘ/ (or, call it a fronted schwa). I know it's probably late to add my take on hard attack, but: I used to record acting students talking freely, reading aloud and then speaking lines, and confirmed my belief that in free speech, the hard attack was never as predominant as when they read, or (thence) when they spoke learnt lines; the feeling was strongly that it arose from an impulse to be exact or precise, rather than to be "connected to text" (ie to speak as though their lines arose spontaneously from thought and feeling). Many of your examples of hard attack are clearly people reading from text. You briefly touched on AAVE, but I would also say recent hard attack in UK speech owes much to so-called MLE, ie the influence not just of West Indian immigrants but also its prevalence in dub poetry (ie performance) and thence to grime, the popularity of which meant that such usage has jumped beyond ethnocultural boundaries.
I really think you’re on to something! I can tell someone’s reading something even when they’re doing a really good job. Listening to podcasts, I can tell the difference between a podcaster’s reading advertisement voice and their conversational tone, but even when they’re reading a scripted podcast! It comes in handy when skipping 30 seconds ahead, and I don’t have to hear that many words to know if I should keep skipping or not.
I will have to listen and re-listen to this video to catch everything. Truly wonderfully presented. I was so intrigued about Dr.Geoff's coverage of the glottal stop with the re-inserted vowel immediately following it. I am hearing that all the time in the past ten years here in the Chicago area. I'm 64 and never heard gottal stops in common conversation except in a few words like certain and sweeten that have already been covered. The inserted vowel afterwards sounds jarring to me.
One of the most famous scenes from Xenoblade 3 gave us "wotah" poking fun at one of the characters' Welsh accent, especially since it's juxtaposed with another character's tapping American accent. Less well famous is a scene with the same word from two other characters, including a glotalizing Cockney accent. So there are at least 3 different pronunciations of "water" within one game. I'll also mention that all 4 of these characters are main party members and no one in-game points out the different accents. "Wotah" "Wawder" and "Wo'ah"
@@isharpu1977Xenoblade 2 was much easier to distinguish since the accents were based more on where the characters were from, whereas Xenoblade 3 has less consistency to how they're distributed, causing more ambiguity as to which accent a character has.
After graduating with a bachelor's in linguistics, one of the phD students who was a not native English speaker gave me some work phonetically transcribing specific words and sentences in her interviews with people from Michigan (the state we were in), Virginia, Turkey, and I think it was China if I recall correctly. She didn't go in depth with what the study was because she didn't want to influence my transcriptions, but I'm fairly certain it was connected to this topic, because I remember the Michigan samples had a high degree of glottal stop + kit vowel insertion in the primary words, while the Virginians were mostly glottal stop only. I don't know how the Turkish and Mandarin speaking natives were being compared in the study though.
For Mandarin speakers speaking English, how they speak will vary widely depending on where they are from and what other language(s) they speak. IIRC, Singaporeans use a LOT of glottal stop.
I’m from Essex, UK and my SO is from New England. I’m an accent chameleon, shifting as the situation requires for understanding. She’s a singing teacher studying Estil. Love your videos! Of course we all know what Americans did with their Ts. Chucked it in Boston harbour 😂 Merry Christmas!🎄
Fascinating. And as usual, surprisingly well-explained, making an extremely strong case for the points made. Thanks a lot 🙏 In Danish the the glottal stops are far more well-established and well-behaved. A short and clean kind of glottal stop ('hard attack') is compulsory at the beginning of word-initial vowels, unless void of syllabic stress. And a much longer and heavier glottal stop is pronounced on top of the latter half of both long vowels and sonorant consonants in specific words in some of those words' inflections. This second type is more like an 'almost-stop' which is always released whilst the co-articulated sonorant is still in place, giving the impression of its brief return just before it ends. And the appearances of the second type of glottal stop has regional variations. But new types of appearances or disappearances are rare and small.
As a Dubliner I am constantly amazed at how many different ways we have in Dublin of pronouncing "t" (or not). You should check us out! Sometimes its like a reflexive "r" (a birr a fun, where the tongue taps forward for the t of bit), sometimes it's a rhotic "r" (same example, a bira fun), sometimes it's glotal. It all depends on where you come from...
Yes! I think it's so fun. I've noticed the way I pronounce it has changed over time, as I went to a suburban school with a relatively posh dublin accent, but have since moved into the city centre. I definitely end up doing more glottalisation these days!
I’m convinced Dr. Geoff Lindsey is a genius. These videos are truly incredible. Thank you for opening my eyes to the peculiarities and nuance of language!
Vermonter here (31yo male): there's a perception in this area that "t-dropping" is associated with the accent of local rural communities. "Vermonter" sounds like "Vermonner", and "mountain" has the glottal stop. Less commonly but still heard, "Milton" drops the L and also uses the glottal stop for the T, so it's often misheard as "mitten". In both "mountain" and "Milton", inserting the kit vowel between the glottal stop and the N is also fairly common, though usually heard in younger speakers and/or the more urban areas.
I'm always impressed by how you find all these clips! Do you just always keep a notebook with you when you watch television or youtube to jot a memo when you catch an example of a feature you plan to talk about some day?
Thank you so much for your research and videos! They are so interesting and fun to watch! I can't believe this one was 25' long, it felt like less than 10'. 💜
Another excellent analysis from Dr Lindsey! What I've noticed again and again from Americans, both in real life and in TV shows, is the inability you mention to contract. For example, instead of "woudn't", "shouldn't", "couldn't", they often pronounce the words as if they actually contained the missing contracted vowels: "would ent", "should ent", "could ent" etc. Very strange.
As a Geordie speaker, I have noticed people saying that we do not pronounce 't' in the middle of a word. Admittedly it is soft and sometimes pronounced as a 'd". I once heard a dialect coach teaching actors to speak in a Geordie accent by dropping ALL midword 't' s. The first time I heard someone try this in TV drama, I thought they must be portraying someone with a severe speech impediment.😂
Fellow Geordie - Don't think I've ever heard it pronounced as a D? What words were you thinking of? The glottalling of the t is common, but don't think it turns into a D sound?
As an example in my American speech, I pronounce the words "mitten", "smitten", "written", etc. with a glottal stop in place of T. Same thing before suffixes in "flightless", "fitness", "witness", "shirtless", "fitful". Also "heightened, brightened, fateful"
This is what I have noticed a pretty dramatic change in. The way words are pronounced with a double t in the middle of the word. I’m 59 and I use a glottal stop when I say mitten but it’s like mi-in and the second syllable has less emphasis. When I hear younger Americans saying the word it sounds like mi-en with a hard pronunciation of the second syllable and it fascinated me that I was actually seeing a shift in the language. Unfortunately when I tried to point this out to my niece she thought I was criticizing her when that wasn’t it at all. It’s also funny that while typing this in my head every “t” in every word was pronounced completely not at all the way I actually speak
I'm pretty sure I've heard all of these before but I'm having trouble imagining "fitful" or "fateful" with a glottal stop while still sounding American
How do you pronounce 'important'? I've noticed quite a lot of Americans use a glottal stop (e.g. 'impor[ʔ]an') and wondered whether it's more common in a specific region of the USA.
@@jamesnite2157 I honestly think almost all Americans use the glottal stop to say important. I can't think of any other way we'd say it. Unless you're enunciating for effect.
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If anyone's interested in getting the full picture of issues like the one in this video, check out the link in the description and let us know if you have any questions.
@@ground_newsyour app seems based around the notion of {{citation needed}}, I think it'd be neat if you heavily encourage those you sponsor provide a list of sources in a reasonable format so that viewers can not only cross check claims but also further educate themselves.
All this talk of hard attack nearly gave me a heart attack!
I noticed something similar as you mention at 17:30 in the speech of @GlennKirschner2 especially when he says "Justice matters" / "Justice madders" His "t" and "d" are very similar.
This is fascinating stuff! Thank you for this well researched and presented video! I'm wondering whether there is such a thing as a "nasal stop" (as opposed to a recognized in linguistics, i.e. where one produces the syllabic n (in "important" ) using and "explosive" burst of air by closing the back nasal passage rather than a glottal stop -- or am I thinking of a secondary characteristic of producing a "t"? I find making a "nasal stop", if there is such a thing, at least in the word "important" also requires the tip of the toungue touching the roof of the mouth in order to make the subsequent "n" sound.
From history, you know how we Americans are about dropping 'T'.
Good one!
This should be the top comment 😂
This is notably an old Boston coastal regionalism.
It took me about 6 seconds - then it hit me. Good one.
James Hoffmann still has better coffee than you 😏☕
"Ride on time" was a 1990 dance music hit. It has that title because the Italian house musicians misheard "Right on time" in the hook that they sampled.
that's funny bc i'm an american born in the late 90s and i would pronounce "ride on time" with a more traditional tongue flap but "right on time" with a glottal stop
She's got a ticket to Rye (not "ride")
:O it's you!
and that's a cool fact.
Source?
I'm from the piney woods of East Texas, where we're likely to just get rid of Ts all together if they're not flapped, though they'll get a glottal stop occasionally. The best example I've got is from a story my dad's best friend was telling at the deer lease a few years ago. In the story, he had to "climb da wahr tahr fer sum'n.'" For those people who aren't from East Texas, that's, "climb the water tower for something," but the first T was tapped, second dropped entirely, third annunciated, and fourth stopped.
Enunciated.
I'm married to an East Texas woman. One thing they do is pronounce final "o"s as "uh". Example "Colorahduh".
You ain lyin
No problem mate, aslong as you don't drop the T-bone steak !
ave spen plenya time in eas texas n i ainever hearda whatchur sayn, i do hear people say whadder towr but ner waer towr
I really have to say that I think your videos are the best thing on youtube. Not only are they well-edited, -presented etc., but above all they feel cutting-edge - the equivalent of reading a new article, not a reference handbook. Thank you.
Can I quote you? Too kind 🙏🙏🙏
I tend to agree! Seriously great content!
well put, OP, i feel the exact same way
@@DrGeoffLindsey certainly! as shnen or as shoni, classics phd student at cambridge if you prefer hahaha
@@shnen2go Shoni!
These videos always have me babbling to myself, hopelessly trying to figure out which way I “usually” say things.
I think in casual speech I use the flap, but if I were to narrate something or speak deliberately, I’d have more glottal stops
Yeah - there is a bias in recorded speech to people using "presentational" speech which tends towards over emphasis. There just aren't as many free and easy to find recordings of people talking like they're chatting over coffee - but this video does still show which way speech in general is trending, if people are getting broadly more comfortable with this variety of emphasis.
That's interesting, because I would say that I use the flap in casual speech, but that in formal speech I would be more likely to fully pronounce the "t" sound rather than using either flap or "glottal t".
Yeah, as someone who generally speaks fairly standard Southern British English but lives in an area with a lot of fairly strong Estuary accents that glottalise loads of things, I realise just how massively it varies how much I glottal stop things depending on how casually I'm talking, and who I'm talking to. It's impossible to gauge how much I do it "usually"!
@@maxtonuponrySame. I notice that I pronounce it as a flap, "t", and glottal stop with roughly the same frequency. If I'm feeling lazy or casual, I'll drop the flap. In most other cases, I'll go with the glottal stop. And if formality is a concern or I want to emphasise something, I'll go with the full "t". For reference, I'm a speaker of estuary English with some American and Russian influences.
Yeah, if I'm recording something, I'm gonna over pronounce the first and last letters more than I would when speaking in person
I was raised in Michigan, am older, and definitely heard people saying "bu'in" for button and "mi'in" for mitten even back then. I thought it was a Midwestern thing, but now I have a friend, same age as me, who was raised in Connecticut and also does this.
I do it in Utah, so yep, apparently its pretty widespread. A little sad cause i thought it was a kinda unique thing to utah accents but nah, guess not.
65 y.o. Ohioan, same. When formal, I use the t. Informal, I'll lapse into the glottal stop.
I'm pretty young and I cannot comprehend someone saying the words button or mountain without a glottal stop. It would sound utterly strange to me. I recently saw a video of someone using a flapped t in "Satan" and it took me a second to even comprehend what he'd said because I've never once in my life heard that said without a glottal stop.
That's also a distinctive feature of some Connecticut accents, yes. I grew up in the wrong part of Connecticut to have it but people always bring it up
As a 22 year old from indiana, I think I do a glottal stop in most words with a middle T??
“it’s ho’ in here”,
“something’s ro’in in the state of Denmark”
“ge’ with i’”
hilarious to hear Dr. Geoff pronouncing words in an American accent.
I don't know why he's rhoticizing like that in this video. He's using [quasi-]Irish sounds. I *know* Dr. Lindsey can pronounce "certain" in a perfect Standard American accent, but here he sounds like an actor from a cheesy Britcom!
Irish sounds? I'm from Ireland and he sounds American to me when he makes those sounds. Nothing like Irish. Maybe accent sounds are relative to the hearer.@@Vinemaple
@@electricrusselletteAccent sounds are definitely a bit relative. To me he sounds very lightly Texan. Like a newscaster from Dallas or something.
@@Vinemaple I'm American and it sounds like American to me.
@Vinemaple I'm Australian, and it's hard for those of us who don't habitually use a rhoticised 'r' to try and imitate it. As for Americans attempting an Aussie accent, don't get me started 😂😂😂
I'm a native German speaker, who's spent some time in Australia and went on to study English linguistics. In my seminar on accents during my studies, I analyzed my own accent as largely American with sprinkles of Australian. So, I was quite taken aback when I noticed that I've recently begun replacing the t in "that" by a glottal stop. It seems, I've also picked up on this trend. Thank you for this fascinating video!
Do you use glottal stops (hard attack) before vowels when you speak English?
I'm an Australian who spent a decade in Germany and the way German has affected my English is that, words like "open" sometimes come out of my mouth with a syllabic /m/ instead of a schwa then /n/: [ɐʉ̯p̚m̩] ... just like "haben" → "habm". I asked an Aussie friend of mine who said he's sure he's heard other anglophones do that, but I've never come across it. In any case, I'm sure I've picked it up from German rather than from other English speakers.
In Australia, the word "no" comes out as about five syllables. 🥴
@@Mark-pp7jy It's literally just a diphthong you're not used to. Chill.
That's funny because I'm an American who had lots of Aussie friends growing up and I definitely think I picked up parts of the accent. I would be very curious to hear yours.
I use a lot more glottal stops than the average American for sure. Even in two of the examples "cotton" and "biting."
@@demidron. It's humor Ben. Chill.
Oh no sir! Hi, middle-aged general american here, in response to 23:00, cotton, button, and mountain, have always contained glottal stops, for me and most everone else I know. (Well, possibly a glottal stop along with an unreleased T closure, but certainly a glottal stop.) Your other three examples; "biting", "proud of", and "city" - yes, those are flaps. -- Your stuff is excellent! Thank you so much for doing this!
While watching this video, i got an ad for chocolate, and the (seemingly American) speaker said "treat yourself" with a glottalized t! I love your videos, every time i watch i learn something new about the way i speak. Thank you for making this content! (Also, as a young American girl, i personally use glottal t all the time, i haven't noticed much of a gender bias around it in my personal life)
That one's pretty interesting because you'd expect the /t/ to be palatalized and affricated if it weren't glottalized - the whole yod-coalescence thing going on there. So maybe there's an avoidance of that?
I'd love to think that the TH-cam ads algorithm selected that ad for you while watching this video on the basis that you would probably be interested in that feature of their speech...! 😆
@@SNDKNG Yeah the person in the ad is probably trying to separate the words "treat yourself" for clarity instead of saying "treecherself"
@@SNDKNG hard attack can also occur before y, w, r, and l! they're glides, which are similar enough to vowels to get the same glottal stop sometimes
Why do you choose to watch ads? This is a question I’ve been curious about since I was a child. I’ve always chosen not to watch them, so I don’t understand why anyone would want to watch them.
I live in the Midwest. I first noticed people online using this in “mountain” and “important,” and it really bothered me. I still don’t hear it much in person, except in younger children.
I found this video really informative - I realized I don’t bat an eye when older people say “moun-nn,” while I say “moun-tin,” but hearing “moun-in” was irritating. The more things change the more they stay the same 😂
I hear bu-in at work for button. yikes.
lol i'm 15 and i say mountain like "moun-in" 💀
I also live in the Midwest, and I have family a few hours away in a town called 'Morton'. My father always gets on my siblings and I because we pronounce it "Mor[ʔ]in", while he pronounces it "More-tin". This video sort of directly relates to that distinction, and now I can't stop hearing it everywhere else in my speech!
It’s the phonetic uncanny valley 😅.
I can deal with most of them, but kih-in gets me. (I pronounce it "kit'nn")
Some years ago, I was trying to add a greeting to my voicemail system. My message included the phrase, “I can’t come to the phone right now” but when I listened to what I had recorded, I heard, “I can come to the phone right now.” I erased it and tried redoing it about 4-5 times, each time with the same result, until I got frustrated and ended with recording myself saying, instead, “I can NOT come to the phone” as that was the only way the message would make sense when played back.
The voicemail system simply couldn’t properly record my implied “t” in “can’t.” (I’ve always referred to it as an implied T in my own speech. Like saying maow-n for mountain, or as was in the video, cur-n for curtain.)
Are you American or British?
@@dieselpunk4117 Neither - Canadian, on the Atlantic coast.
@@snotrajohnson Sounds like in that situation not being British was a disadvantage.
'Can' & 'Can't' have a completely different vowel sound to each other around most of the UK, and whether you drop the T or not, as a result, the machine would easily distinguish between the two words.
@@dieselpunk4117 There is a slight difference between the two as I say them, too, and I’ve never had anyone express trouble understanding when I use either one. It may have been more a quirk with the actual tape recording device for that landline phone.
My local municipality is known for having its own (minor) accent, more strongly affected by Highland Scots and Irish, and probably some French/Acadian, than by English. Can’t say I think of it as a disadvantage, though!
yes in the UK we say Carnt instead of can as in anne
I’m so glad you made this video. I had noticed the recent tendency among young Americans to say, e.g., “impor’ent“ and was surprised to learn that my friends didn’t even know what I was talking about. Now I can send them this video, with its many examples.
I’m so glad it’s not just me, I hear it all the time
Yeah! What happened to Americans saying "imporDant/imporDint"?
Honestly, I think all those Ts disappearing are quite clearly linked to the rise of acceptability and "coolness factor" of the way things are pronounced in AAVE which has "cen[t]er stage" in youth culture in the USA, and influencing English dialects around the world through Hollywood.
"Firs[t], secon[d], cen[t]er, almos[t], wors[t], impor[t/d]an[t], exper[t], worke[d], in[t]erestin[g]", and many other words have a flapping sound or a complete absence of sound in very many AAVE sociolectal variations... but there are also cases of "white" accents and dialects in Northern areas of the USA influenced by Southern & Southwestern US dialects that have characteristics clearly linked to the "white" speech forms that were very non-standard and the same origin nexus as AAVE in the first place.
So, between their own southern, southwestern, or Northern dialects influenced by southerners who moved northward to work in factories and farms after the civil war, there are many reasons (including the high acceptability of AAVE among the youth of the USA), one must acknowledge that American English IS changing since linguistic prescriptivism of pronunciation in educational environments lost the culture war between the 1980s and 1990s, so speech is changing a lot.
Agree 💯. Anderson Cooper pronounces ‘important’ as ‘impordant’. Ugh.
Yes!! I always feel a slight attack from these glottal stops. I myself trail off with an 'n' sound. A lot of friends seem like they're adding a whole other syllable--I guess it's a glottal stop.
Makes me think of the sound drop on Your Mom's House Podcast: "FAR'IN"
I don’t study language or anything like that, but I find these videos endlessly fascinating. I also typically feel extremely self conscious afterward, so thanks for that 😅
In Spielberg's Lincoln, actor Jared Harris (as General Ulysses S Grant) does a near-perfect rural Northern Illinois accent until his final line where he pronounces the words January 18th and gives away some of his native accent by pronouncing them "Janury eighdeenth" instead of the full Illinois way of ""Jan-u-ary eighTeenth".
One thing I absolutely love about this channel is that it often helps me to better speak and understand languages other than English. Your explanation about hard attacks in German was such an ear-openner! On the course of following this channel, I've become a better speaker of English, French, and German. Three languages for the price of a single youtube subscription.
Thank you so much.
Let's all give a moment of silence for the dropped T.
I just want to say that your videos always surprise me a lot. I couldn't even imagine that these bits specifically hide so much behind them. Thank you for fueling the linguistic curiosity with every episode!
Thank you very much for not judging the younger generation.
I study acting and everytime someone tells me young people's speech is bad because they are lazy and watch too much tv, a little bit of my inner linguist dies. You gave me an argument for the next time my patience inevitably runs out and I start explaining that no, that is not how any of this works 😁
You genuinly made my day ❤
My acting teacher would tell you to stop dropping the T and pronounce it correctly.
I’m not sure about speech, but their writing, mine included, is generally horrid. It’s astonishing how you can read writers from, say, the 1680s, and then open the New York Times--nearly all of whose writers clearly think of themselves as being the most advanced and enlightened beings in all of history, the apex of all Progress ever--and the writing in the latter is of such an objectively inferior quality. It repulses me.
American here. When my Ukrainian aunt was first learning English, I was talking to her about something and said the number 20. She looked confused and asked me to repeat it. Speaking more slowly, I pronounced it as "twun-ty". But she shook her head and said that wasn't how I had said it originally. It turns out that I actually do completely drop the t in 20 in casual speech, pronouncing it like "twunny."
I pronounce it closer to 'twenny'.
Learning spoken language > learning written language. We were fluent in our first language before we learned to write it. And written English isn't an alphabet so much as a semi-etymologising logography based loosely on Latin.
This sounds like the /nt/ flapping mentioned briefly in the video. As Lindsey alludes to, this is somewhat complicated. This is very common in North American dialects especially in the north eastern US and Canada. (Note the stereotypical examples of internet and Toronto.) In addition to a difference in formal and informal speech, you may have some variation between pronunciation in the same register.
@@CuFhoirthe88 I would argue pseudo-etymologizing logography would be more appropriate given the amount of folk etymology and Latin dress-up going on.
My Russian ear hears it as twonny.
Showing so many examples of the hard attack in action could lead to a heart attack ❤
Yes Sir , I totally agree on that.
Really dangerous thing,this heart attack,I mean hard attack, or was it the other way round?So confusing those conspiracy theories…
I'm glad that I read down the comments, because I was just about to say something similar.
But only if you put stress on the heart.
@@MarkoMikulicic the /t/ in the word “attack “ is the stressed syllable
therefore can’t be a glottal stop 🛑
@@robertkohler3856 it was klingon
I’m 63, American, and grew up in Maryland, now live in Colorado. I say ‘button’ with what I guess is a tongue ‘tap’ for the ‘t’ but it’s not a tap and release. My tongue stays up and then I go straight to the ‘n’. My sons seem to do the same. My daughter, however, does a full glottal version of the t. She grew up here in Colorado. It’s so noticeable to me, and I do tend to notice that more in people her age (early 30s) and younger. She seems unaware of the difference. I might have her watch this episode.
I love these--fascinating. Not only the main content, but the way you slide into your adverts imperceptibly. This is both humorous and maddening.
another colorado immigrée here, originally from mississippi, and it's shudderingly clear how much the local accent involves glottalizing. it sounds _so_ ignorant and non-credible to my ear. for lack of a better term, ghetto.
I also grew up in MD, and am in my mid-40s. I do the same as you with button. It drives me mad to hear someone either do "buh-en" with the full glottal stop and vowel - which my sister does, and she grew up in the same places as me, just 7 years behind - *or* to flap the Ts really heavily and do the vowel to get all the way to "budden". Madness.
I’m from Colorado and yeah pretty much everyone my age (early 20s) does the full glottal stop for words like “button” or “mountain”, my mom is from Baltimore and she’s one of the few people I know who sometimes voices those “t” sounds
I'm 74 and have lived in Maryland since the age of four. I say it the same way you do: the tongue goes to the palate and stays there through the n. I pronounce almost all such words that way. I have noticed that people in the Carolinas use a d sound in many such words, like "buddon" or "impordant". And they pronounce "sentence" as "sennance".
I have always been fascinated with the very odd pronunciation which I call "Duntalk", since it seems that nearly everyone raised in Dundalk talks that way. Where else in the English-speaking world do people pronounce "water" as "wooder"? Or "hon" as "hoing"? Since you are a Marylander, I'm sure you've heard it many times. Hey, maybe you're a Duntalker, yourself!
Edit: Oh, another feature of this area is called the "dark L". With words that begin with L, people will pronounce the L almost like a W, with the tongue never reaching the palate. I remember one person who pronounced his own name, Larry, that way. In fact, he's the one who introduced me to the term, "dark L". He was a psychologist, and kept that pronunciation despite going to a fine prep school and having an Ivy League college education. LOL, I remember that the prep school was Loyola, which he pronounced "Woyowa" (approximately).
Edit AGAIN: Wow, I just remembered that the dark L is _very_ common in the Cockney accent!
Great to read these replies-thanks for sharing them. @Astrobrant2, I grew up in Manchester (northern Carroll County). I still catch myself saying certain phrases from there. My Merlin-ese was never pure, as my parents both grew up in Nebraska, so I was a linguistic mongrel, I guess. My peers would make fun of my NOT saying ‘wooter’ for water, etc. 😂
My girlfriend has general American pronunciation and was surprised to learn that "kiddy pools" had nothing to do with small cats after hearing me say it with my British pronunciation and realising it wasn't with a T.
this is absolutely hilarious. Im just here imagining a bunch of kittens aimlessly swimming around in a pool
It's a pool so shallow you could wash kittens in it?
Yes; the perceived D sound makes comprehension much more difficult
Today I learned
Kiddy pool is for kids.
Early 20’s American guy. I definitely have a glottal stop in words like button, cotton, gotten, etc. This seems to work across word-boundaries for me, provided the following syllable is [weak vowel + n], as in “cat in the hat” or “caught in the rain” or “bat an eyelash”. I don’t think I do glottal stops across word boundaries when the following syllable isn’t [weak vowel + n], e.g., “one cat alone”, “caught off guard” or “bet on it”, where instead the Ts are tapped.
Yes, this seems exactly matching to my own accent.
I do the exact same thing! I’ve never realized it before now
Yeah, 21 general American accent (Midwest to be specific) and I definitely use glottal stops for button, Cotten, and gotten, and I don’t think this is a new thing either. If you listen to the Tennessee Ernie Ford song “Union Dixie” from 1961, he says “where cotton’s king and men are chattels” with a glottal stop I’m pretty sure. Maybe because he’s singing it isn’t a good example though?
Funny enough, it's the same for me with one exception.
If I say "leave that cat alone", I would say it with the tap. But if I say "one cat, alone", I do glottalize the 't' in 'cat', because I tend to insert hard attack a lot more where a natural pause (like at a comma) precedes it. I don't unpack syllabic 'n' as much as a lot of people my age do, though.
Mid-20s, general American (moved around a lot, but my high school and college years were in the mid-Atlantic), suburban/semi-rural.
Same thing for me. Late 20s male Long Islander. Seems a fairly regionally diverse trend!
As an American who happens to be a trained Voice Actor, I find your videos to be quite entertaining as well as educational!
I miss being at university. I love listening to an intelligent analysis and well thought out presentation of ideas that are new to me.
Houses of light.
"I miss being at university."
In my observation, almost no one at a university can speak a single sentence without inserting the word "LIKE".
@@menow. It wasn't like that when I was there. American have let standards slide in many areas, lignguistic sloppiness is now the order of the day. I hate the constant use of the word "literally".
Most ppl blindly follow their peers to gain their acceptance, & copying group speech is a type of following. Social acceptance is such a powerful need that you'll see it everywhere, all our lives. @@menow.
@@BermondseySteve Yes, that's true. It's just sad, what they are copying.
I'm a vocal music teacher, and I love your videos! They help SO MUCH with helping students sing sounds they CAN do but often don't think they can! Many Rs should be flipped in sung English but are not flipped in standard American English, but this has been so helpful!
As a corollary, an English speaker who is diligent about fluency in a language unrelated, e.g. Athabascan (Native American), Xhosa, etc. may find being a proficient musician can be helpful. Phrasing, meter, structure, pitch, tonality, expression, attack, retardation, diminution, and the capability of the instrument itself are part of the "language" of music. So it is with the comprehension of sound produced by one who is speaking.
I'm an American in my 50s and only discovered recently as a result of a language survey here that I drop my Ts occasionally. I don't do it much, only in very specific situations, but I hadn't realized I was doing it at all and it came as a bit of a shock. I'm quite gratified to learn more about some of the reasons for it in this video!
Hi Geoff, great video! I would purport that maybe your sample data could be skewed by the "TH-cam accent" that a lot of content creators use, which can be quite different than the way that people talk normally in the US. With that said, I do notice the younger generation adopting some of this "TH-cam dialect" and delivering their words as if they were presenting information on TH-cam.
This is to say nothing of your evidence and conclusions in the video! I just wanted to mention something I am aware of as a GenZ/Millenial cusper from the US Northeast
The TH-cam instructional video pronunciation of "the" before a consonant sound is epidemic, eg "thee computer." Professional speakers do NOT do this. I think they do it to sound more precise or exact. And they don't do it all the time.
I agree, but as children become more and more raised on said "youtube accent" there becomes more and more younger speakers whose accents are molded by it.
I agree that hard attack is much less common in normal American speech. It's really mostly used as a "stage accent" practice.
@@WGGplant 100%! Tangentially: I would be curious to hear if the Mid-Atlantic accent had an influence of accents in the Anglosphere. That seems to be a somewhat analogous cultural phenomenon.
I noticed this too! Especially the unpacked syllabic-n version immediately clicked for me as "youtuber and/or teen accent" (which I definitely did not realize was a distinct thing in my mind until watching this!)
Eh, I doubt -- yes, alot of you tubers may try to slow down and be a bit more precise, but a lot of that was pretty unselfconscious, fluid, natural speach. Sound pretty natural and normal to me.
I think I have a new euphemism, to use during the holidays.... to 'Not Give a Flying Reindeer'. 🤣
As an older Maritimer (East Coast of Canada) I find that I actually pronounce my T's, in most of these words. But also being Canadian, the American and British pronunciations sound normal for American and British accents. We tend to be exposed to both, a lot. and just go with the flow. As always... a fascinating video Dr Lindsey.😊
I saw the Santa display at my department store and I could give a flying reindeer.
I live near the border and listen to a lot of CBC, and I've noticed Canadian radio presenters elide consonants and syllables in weird ways. I regularly hear "Cneenian" (Canadian), "Chronno" (Toronto), and "pleece" (police) on the CBC.
Thanks Doug
@@Vinemaple Wait i figure the second one is "tronno" like how we say toronto but what are those other ones?
@@Moisttowelette1111 i assume "canadian" and "police"
I have just discovered your channel and I love it.
My own insights as a Gen-X flat/standard midwest american english speaker (originally from Ohio, a state with a large German and English historical ancestry, and where major cities had german language public schools well into the early 20th century), my spontaneous reaction is that the hard attack vs the flap pronunciation between words has a lot to do with emphasis and urgency tone. When generic middle-Americans try to sound angry or intense, we also try to sound stereotypically German, and this is tied to popular culture in late 20th century media depictions of angry/intense German accents in film and television. So I think the flap sounds more "calm" (NOT "carm" ;) and the glottal stop sounds more "urgent".
You (Dr Lindsey) pointed out when it appeared idiosyncratically in one of the videos of a You Tuber talking about the columbian exchange of eurasian crowd diseases in Hispanola, and I think you might be able to hear the contextual difference of the two pronunciations of the same phrase. In the first case he was emphatically / intensely introducing the fact, and in the second case he had relaxed his tone and was mentioning it in passing, as a mere matter of fact rather than a matter of intruigue. So as the intensity of speech declined, the flap replaced the stop.
I am so glad to see you address this. I first started hearing it back in the late 80s, in central NY state, and thought it was regional and socioeconomic. Since then, of course, it has come to be everywhere. The surprising thing is that many people seem not to be able to hear it. When I point out how we used to say a word, compared to how it's now said, look blank and say they never noticed.
I am always surprised that so many people are such poor listeners.
Welcome to the world of English pronunciation!
That’s wild asf. That’s j how language changes goes ig. Nb speaking it realizes it’s changing until it’s completely unrecognizable centuries later. Ship of Theseus type shii
I moved to Ithaca in the mid 1990s and I noticed that too.
Most people, in general, are not good at noticing small, gradual changes.
I'm always so amazed by your videos... I'm Brazilian and I think that I learned my English 95% by myself. First I learned how to read and write, then listen, and the last thing was my pronunciation. The problem is that I love British series, movies (Harry Potter fan), audio books by BBC etc., but most of the material that I consume is in American English. So you can imagine that my pronunciation is all over the place. Watching your videos has been great to understand where I can improve. I love watching them and going back and forth trying to learn how to identify the "vocal phenomena" that you describe. You're truly amazing!
Lucky English is really flexible and doesn’t need to be spoken precisely
I remember hearing an Indian man speak at a conference, and he would pronounce certain words with a different accent than others. You could tell that he must have picked up certain words from someone in the American south, and then a few others would sound more British. It was fascinating.
I grew up in Glasgow(ish), with foreign parents, my accent is pretty strange
@@lucylane7397 Right. I find it fascinating that on TH-cam I encounter quite a few non-native English speakers who have 99% perfect American English, but after a few minutes I can tell that they are non-native. Typically it's not a question of "accent", but rather, that they speak more precisely than a native. A true native has more tendency to use sloppy speech, slurring words, etc.
@@bhami I work and teach English abroad and this is a common myth that English teachers put in their students' heads. "Wow! You speak better than native speakers!" In every language that you study, you'll find that native speakers do not speak or pronounce things precisely as they are "supposed to" due to something known as colloquial speech. I worked in Poland for some time. Polish tends to stick to the "rules". Despite my studying, I would still struggle to understand a colleague of mine when she was having casual chat with another colleague. The reason is because natural and colloquial speech don't follow textbook "rules." While there are cases of some people who may slur their speech, colloquial speech and dialect isn't "sloppy." Speaking in a manner that is hyper and excessively "proper" comes off as pompous and makes it difficult for language learners to have authentic conversations and connections with the people they wish to interact with. "How do you do?" vs "How's it goin'?" Both give off and invite different kinds of energy.
I am really curious about something. I have heard something in the voice of some female TH-camrs from the California area. They seem to end each word with a slight "a" sound, as I hear it. So it sounds like they are saying: "welcome-a to-a my-a youtube-a channel". It's like the "a" after every word makes the words smoother like a liaison. It's almost like subconsciously they don't want to have a silence so they just keep making a filler sound in between words. I am not a linguist so I have no idea what I am hearing and why that happens only with some TH-camrs. Is it just my ears or is this a thing and might it have a name?
I noticed that too! Idk what it's called though
Hello Dr Lindsey,
Recently I was watching a video with a Welshman speaking welsh English. He had an unusual way of connections within words that I have never seen before. You have spoken at length about dropping the T and replacing it with a glottal stop in some English accents (I.e. words like "Better" become (Beh'ah") but this fellow put an R in instead. In fact, just about every instance where there was a T in the middle or the end of the word, he replaced it with an R. So instead of saying "Forget about it" he said "Forge'r abour'it". I thought it was a conscious affectation at first but I listened to him speak for about 3 hours and he was consistent. It's like he had the London dropping-of-T-'s-and-putting-in-a-glottal-stop but took it a step further and hyper-intrusive-R'd all of those instances. Is this even a linguistic "Thing"? Thanks for all of the knowledge you've shared!
Welsh is one of the big influences on the Liverpool accent, so you see the same thing happening there. An R will often be inserted instead of a T; and at other times the T will be softened to an S (as has happened in German, resulting in 'out' becoming aus). So 'get out!' becomes more like 'gerrowse'.
A lorra’ lorra’ money (Cilla Black).
Late reply, but yes! It happens especially in Liverpool, but more broadly across accents in the Midlands and north of England. Sometimes it's called the "T-to-R rule".
Here's an example of it being studied and documented (quite dense notes, but hopefully it shows that this is indeed a Thing in linguistics) - www.lel.ed.ac.uk/homes/patrick/lancshnd.pdf
Dr. Geoff, as a former linguistics grad student I am absolutely fascinated by your incredibly insightful videos! I am originally from the Midwest, am a practicing lawyer in Texas, and have also lived and practiced law in New Orleans. You did a video a while back on ask vs aks and the social constructs that go with it. In New Orleans there is a well-respected member of the judiciary who uses a very strong “aks” that would get a strong side-eye by the educated elite in Dallas but is perfectly acceptable in New Orleans. I’m wondering if you have ever studied the various accents in New Orleans. I find them fascinating and I would love to hear some of your analysis on any aspect of them. For example, a large sector of the population uses an accent that is very similar to a Boston accent.
I'll say it again: you have the best linguistics-related content hands down. As hugely entertaining as it is educational. Thx Geoff
I'm so glad you made this video. As an older American, I have been noticing the glottal t in younger people and my peers think I'm nuts when I mention it. Especially noticed in words like certain and important.
It's because they grew up watching that British show Peppa Pig. My cousin's kid would watch that show nonstop and now she sounds like an East End chimney sweep.
My grandmother is from the Bronx - she's 93 - she'll thro' 'le any "t" she can find. I grew up not 30 miles away but when I say a word like bottle it sounds more like boddle. When she says "pass me the boh' 'le" I think, "Nan, did you go to London for that word?"
@@johnnymidnight2982 I didn't grow up watching Peppa Pig or any British media at all really and I use glottal stops everywhere and always have. I'm pretty sure most linguistic science suggests that media consumption doesn't result in much if any lasting change to speech.
Dr Geoff, I started watching your videos out of sheer curiousity, kept watching because of how well you break everything down and make it understandable to people with no background in linguistics - but what I have learned from your videos helps me in my work! I'm a musician and I love using speech synthesis, which requires me to transcribe vocals into phonemes. I realised quite quickly that the "correct" phonemes makes synthesised speech/singing sound very strange and awkward, and your videos have helped me move past the trial and error method of getting natural sounding vocals!
A friend of mine who lives in Michigan has noticed that the glottalisation of t in younger speakers in “mountain”, “decanted” and “painter” results in a stressed nasalised vowel followed by ʔ and a schwa or barred i before the final consonant
Just experimented with a friend, I found that not only did they freely use regular t, flapping, and glottal stop + hard vowel attack, in some cases they even dropped the t completely and relied on the listener being able to hear differences between two vowels to recognize the t
For example, in "legitimately", I noticed they dropped the first t (the second one was glottal) and pronounced the two i's as the "ih" in "kit" becoming a schwa (I'm not very good with IPA). I think some people could chalk up this sort of t-pronunciation as being lazy, but I do it too, so something else to think about...
"Legimately" sounds like a rapid speech pronunciation. We pretty much all do this. It's amazing how our brain reconstructs words that we only partially say.
I s'pose@@DrGeoffLindsey
I (from Michigan) would tap the first t in “legitimately” and glottalize the second t.
@@Ravie3yeah, I'm from Iowa and the first T goes more into that T/D crossover sound with a touch more T on the second, the first one just feels like a weak letter
T-flapping is also common in some Australian accents. It's particularly noticeable in numbers like "thirty" and "forty," which combine British R-dropping and North American T-dropping in a single word!
They even do it in “thirteen” and “fourteen”!
As an Australian, I can’t stand it 😅 It’s a pet peeve of mine for people to change T to D without needing to.
It's almost the standard Australian pronunciation. Pronouncing the "t" in "water" or "butter," for example, rather than "wader", 'budder" would definitely make you stand out.
What I find interesting is how similar mutations in pronunciation arise independently, even in different languages. You see some of the same sorts of mutations happening in Portuguese that happen in English (the /z/ in Brazil turning into /ʒ/, the same way the /s/ in usual does in English). Or how certain /k/s in Russian, English and Italian mutated into /t͡ʃ/. Someone could write a linguistic law about it...
@BruceKvam, I don't think you can prove a law (in the scientific sense) for anything involving voluntary human action. Nevertheless, are academic terms for the shifts and mutations languages experience, and I'm sure many linguists have looked at how common they are.
Assibilation is the s->sh, s->z, k->ch, g->j, etc. softening, I think.
40-something native midwesterner here:
People here definitely T-tap and T-flap, but I've noticed in my own speech (especially my recorded voice), the T-tap and flap take on a pretty noticeable D sound.
My S sounds are almost exclusively Z sounds, and P's in the middle of words take on almost B sound, and we may as well omit H sounds almost entirely.
So something like "Pepperoni Pockpockets" sounds like "Pebberoni 'oddpawgedz"
"Potassium" sounds more like "Bodazzeeum" and "Thirteen" becomes "Thurdeen" (I watch a lot of Aussie content, I blame them for this one specifically lol).
I don't have a speech impediment or anything, but people here definitely notice and sometimes have a hard time understanding it.
The unpacking of the syllabic N and hard attack both sound juvenile to me, in the sense that pre-school age children around here
often do this. I've rarely heard any local adults speak that way, but of course I hear it all the time online. I strongly dislike how that sounds in adults,
but the funny thing is that it bothers me FAR more to hear men do it than women. I love The Action Lab's content, but I cannot stand how the
guy speaks. It makes me actively dislike the man, which is totally unfair, but there you have it.
I've never been able to describe it any better than "he talks funny" until now. Some people probably think that about me, but hey, at least I don't talk like THAT! ;-)
I cannot bring myself to watch that man's videos. Nails on a chalkboard.
This is so fascinating!! I used to speak a bit differently - I’m not sure why I changed certain pronunciations. I’m 40 and live in New England (NY-CT metro area). I used to use glottal stops/flaps for words like “mountain” and “counter” and have changed to pronounce those with sharp “t’s”. Most people in my region still use the stop or tap in those words. It might be because I used to work with toddlers and read them a LOT of books out loud - I wanted to speak very clearly for them and it seems to have changed my speech a lot. This is so so interesting! The hard attack seems to be dependent on what we’re talking about - we seem to use it a lot when we’re speaking in a lecture-type voice - and I’d actually wager that TH-cam has influenced it a lot because everyone tends to use the same exact delivery. Too be honest, most amateur people on TH-cam seem to speak in their videos like they’re eight year olds giving oral reports at school and it’s AWFUL lol it strikes me that hard attack stems from that place in people’s brains here in the states - people wanting to sound “professional” or “smart” and they revert to how they spoke in school. I’d also say that hard attack is IMMENSELY influenced by the Kardashians - their vocal fry and slower and more deliberate way of speaking (especially Kourtney) has both features.
This video made me realize that I am no longer a "young speaker" of American English and I resent it! I am youthful and vibrant!
Me too, damnit
You can still be young without choosing to sound stupid!
@@Sandra-vg1jnyou can choose to not be rude
Youth is overrated. Wisdom is priceless.
I’m American and I must admit I never noticed these differences were age associated. I guess I just assumed these were regional differences - they all sound Northern to me. I’ll be paying more attention in the future!
They sound urban to me.
I always thought Baby Boomers sounded like a bunch of hicks, no matter what part of the country they were from. 😂 My older brother told me that Gen X all talk like Valley Girls. Millennials sound kind of... urban to me, even my super successful cousin. Gen Z doesn't talk enough for me to make an analysis yet. But yes, there are differences. And that's just on this side of the Pond. I had a professor who had Mid Atlantic. What an accent!
@@sleekoduck My grandmother (wouldve been in her mid nineties by now if she were still around) had a very odd combination of factors influencing her speech. She was part of the Golden Generation, so she picked up a good chunk of the Mid Atlantic accent, meaning that to us younger Americans we thought she spoke like the Queen, but she was also pretty heavily steeped in Pennsylvania Dutch culture and accent, along with a hefty helping of Appalachian drawl. All in all, she sounded like a complete hillbilly trying to imitate British aristocracy. It was a little bit hard to keep a straight face when listening to her sometimes.
@@sleekoduck Gen Z don't talk enough to make an analysis?? my guy I am 20 years old, I do nothing but talk all day.
Hayesville NC hillbilly here... I went from hillbilly to urban "Atlanta" and now at 50 still in Atlanta I seem to be back to hillbilly. ??
About 17 or 18 years ago, I worked in Texas with a man from Pittsburgh who did this with “button”, pronouncing it something like “bu n”. It wasn’t sure what he had said until he repeated it a bit later.
Hello Dr. Lindsay - I'm a Lithuanian that's lived in the UK for 13 years and when I originally came to the UK to Sheffield I sounded Australian for no reason whatsoever (to the point where me and my friends convinced an Aussie exchange student that I was from Sydney and he demanded to see my passport when we finally broke the news to him a year later). Today my accent wanders and meanders in weird ways, making Europeans believe I'm British, and Brits to be very confused.
I think a key feature of my accent is genuine t-dropping (which is not at all a feature of Lithuanian, for example), rather than flapping or glottaling. Would you like to have a chat and see if you could make it into an interesting linguistics video?
Fascinating video. I first noticed this when I moved to NYC for my undergrad linguistics degree. I did student teaching at an elementary school in Chinatown. I heard the glottal T in "mountain" and "button" from the teachers, not just students. This was around 2014, where I was saying [ˈmaʊnʔn̩] and heard others more than 5 years my senior say [ˈmãʊ̃ʔɪn̩]. I say [ˈbʌt̚n̩] (no audible release [t]) but heard folks from New Jersey say [ˈbʌʔɪn̩].
The difference between these is my glottal stops for t might've been unreleased [t] most of the time (i.e., my tongue is alveolar ridge-bound), but for these New Jerseyites, I definitely noticed their glottal stops were following almost no tongue movement from the vowel position.
This was incredibly noticeable with "button" since my STRUT vowel was "closed off" (the formants pinched a bit in praat) but for those who said "buh-in" the formants were much more even for the duration. But even for "mountain", they would nasalize the vowels and drop the "nt" so "mou-in".
A good friend from Liverpool (I'm American) shared an anecdote about glottling:
Mum: "Pronounce your tees!!"
daughter: "wha[]evah"
Hello Dr. Lindsay, excellent video! I believe an aspect of this trend worth considering is the realities of a society that communicates more and more via microphone! A glottal stop has a much lower chance of creating a nasty plosive in your recording than a softened /t/ sound.
To my American ears, a lot of the glottal stops seem to be replacing /t/ sounds that are more often hardened than say, in “city.” The examples you gave also only occur in places where the glottal stop doesn’t introduce any additional speaking time, preventing their adoption from interfering with the traditional rhythm of Standard American speech (stopping during “ci-iy” would introduce a surprising pause).
One has to wonder if the trend has an origin in people cutting nasty plosives out of their recordings online (manually or by a de-essing program), eventually becoming adopted to avoid the need in the first place, and ultimately finding place in day-to-day speech!
Additionally, I believe this could also provide a basis for the reintroduction of vowels after preexisting glottal stops before /n/. When recording my voice, I find a mostly nasal sound like /n/ is captured disproportionately quietly. This effect is amplified as microphone quality decreases, and further still when introducing VoIP compression and basic noise gating found in most software like Teams, Zoom, Discord, etc.
Perhaps this is overselling the impact of digital communication, but I’m curious if this aspect has been considered in the wider literature.
Cheers!
Hi Geoff, I have no past experience or education with linguistics or anything related, but I find myself really drawn to these videos. They’re really accessible without “dumbing down” (I wish I had a better way to say that) any of the information present. Thank you for making these, I’ve been enjoying the learning experience and find your videos endlessly interesting. Cheers
I was a bit sad that the "center"/"international" example didnt get more time, as someone with the winter-winner merger. But there is another complicated example that might deserve more exploration, which is T-flapping after L (e.g. "alter", "falter") where us Americans tend to disagree. Notably, if you watch NFL games, you will notice a lot of variation in how the commentators and referees pronounce "Baltimore" and "penalty".
Is it a pure merger though? To me 'winter' does trigger the (intent of) a flap that can't be fully produced because of / n / and is absorbed by it. I feel a tiny difference but maybe it's just me.
The phonology section of the wikipedia page for American English says that intervocalic /nt/ can be reduced to a nasalized flap [ɾ̃] or just completely merge with /n/. Some people pronounce winner and winter both as [ˈwɪnɚ], some distinguish both as [ˈwɪnɚ] and [wɪɾ̃ɚ], and some maintain the original distinction between [ˈwɪnɚ] and [ˈwɪntɚ].
@@la_lavanda thanks
I was disappointed by this too, since it's a big topic of discussion in my city, Toronto.
Greg Olsen is the poster boy for this phenomenon... to took a "shah" downfield. hahahaha
T-flapping is actually possible between two vowels AND two liquids. For example, the flap in 'chortle' is preceded by the retroflex liquid and followed by the lateral liquid.
I think this is one trend we’ve managed to from the American Midwest to the coasts! I’m pushing middle age, and I’ve been aware/self-conscious of this in my speech for quite some time. One particularly jarring episode illustrated it when I had to yell to my dad’s wayward dog Peyton: yelling “Pay’n” in an extended manner really emphasized the missing T.
I'm a 33 year old American from Southern California and the phenomenon heard at 11:40 drives me CRAZY. I'm hearing it more and more. It is for some reason very common in the state of Utah I've noticed.
About 60 years ago I noticed that a friend of mine said "di-dint" rather than "didnt". I don't know where he got it from. I still hear it from various people occasionally.
It's a lazy way to speak. If you watch Hollywood movies from 1929 to 1960 you never hear lazy glottal stopping. All consonants are pronounced.
The words Button and Curtain always drive me nuts when people drop the T, then I catch myself. But then, how do you actually pronounce it? It sounds so weird to me, then I am not sure either. LOL. These two words I deal with, but someone in the comments mentioned the contraction 'di-dint" rather than "didnt'. I do not like it when someone says 'di-int'. Drives me crazy. Sorry if you do, nothing personal.
@@hewitc It's so funny that you use the "lazy" argument under a video that thoroughly deconstructs it as plainly wrong.
Absolutely. No one who speaks like this will ever be employed by me.
The word Internet is an example of t-dropping. Most North Americans don't pronounce the first t.
Yes, came here to say the same! I didn't really think about it until it was pointed out by EU/UK friends.
I usually say "Inter-Net" rather than "InnerNet" 🤓
I do. Interesting.
@@JuleesuzIntristing (sic)
That's a flap. He covered that.
@@cremsen1 if it were a flap it would sound like "indernet".
I am very glad I came across your video! Roughly one year ago, I was expressing to a friend my frustration & irritation of T & TT dropping. I expressed to my friend that I notice the T & TT dropping here in America occuring more often than ever before. Especially from those who were born in the mid 1980's & later. I cringe when I hear on national television, professional hosts/broadcasters dropping the T. I have truly enjoyef watching your video & reading the comments. I will be sure to check out your other videos!
Thanks for another great video! I've been noticing the t-glottalization before the syllabic n, while inserting a vowel, getting much more prominent in American English over the last five or so years, and it's been particularly striking how much more you've been hearing it in media, particularly podcasts,. A few observations to add, 1) the inserted vowel is often heavily nasalized, and in some speakers the n is actually getting quite week, and 2) I seem to notice it more in the speakers on the East Coast more than the West Coast (I live in California, admittedly this observation is anecdotal).
Thanks. It's also true that the glottal stop can be weakened practically to nothing, e.g. imporant, which I think bothers a lot of older folks! Re East/West, I definitely hear the opposite claim. I heard it in NM and James Orgill is a Utahn. According to the 2009 paper I showed in the video, "(1) glottal stops were favored by following front vowels; (2) younger female speakers were most likely to use glottal stops, which may indicate a change in progress; and (3) speakers from the Western United States glottalized more than speakers from other parts of the country." I'm skeptical about (2) and don't know about (3).
That nasalness makes the speaker sound like they've got a cold.
Utah makes sense. When I lived in Seattle about 10 years ago I had a coworker from Utah and we teased him for saying "bu[ʔ]in" (button) because it sounded like a toddler, we didn't know it was so common.
I wonder if this is a West-sans-California thing because I agree I don't hear the inserted vowel much in my own speech as a Californian or those of my peers there, but do in the speeches of people here in the Pacific Northwest where I live now.
Its interesting that all these ways of pronouncing T still register as being T, with the words still being completely understandable. It really speaks to how amazing the brain is.
It blew my mind to learn that American tapped t is identical to the Portuguese r sound.
Well they're all plosives, so there's certainly a similarity between all the different ways of saying it. I'd be interested to know why the brain feels that the glottal stop has more in common with the tongue tip 't' than another plosive like say "p". Is it just social conditioning or is it actually phonetically closer on some level? I can't immediately think of any examples in other languages which might give a clue as to which.
@@xergiok2322 I'd have to imagine it has to do with how our brain creates our perception of reality as much through predictions and past experiences, as through actual sensory input. That's why illusions can boggle us or we can hear words in white noise. It's fascinating that even though the brain can be pretty easily tricked, it still gets it right most of the time.
as a 30s californian who glottalizes before vowels and even before some syllabic Ls, ive always wondered how late down the line intervocalic t glottaling was in britain, or if it ever happened in nyc. i imagine the stigmatization alone would either prevent it or leave the environnement as the last to be affected here in north america
I'm curious if a lot of the American hard attack pronunciations are occurring when the younger generation is speaking in "presentation mode." Given that I'm sure they've consumed online content in a larger portion of their lives than the older generations, they probably picked up that presentational speech pattern in their produced content.
I sort of hypothesis that these same people use more t flapping and "relaxed" speech patterns when not in "presentation/formal mode."
Also, I bet if you go into an American TH-camr's years old content, they probably have more relaxed speech. Their current speech patterns are probably far more formal.
I think I make that exact distinction in my own speech. Somewhere up there Dr. Lindsey says he brings this exact thing up in his video about hard attack too.
This video has illuminated so much about my own speech patterns, it's just astounding to me.
I am an American (Southern Californian) and I hard attack, and I am not even really "young" (mid-40s).
I assume everyone younger than me and also from my region do so also (upon reflection I am certain all my local peers do).
The hard attack does probably get more pronounced when I am speaking with emotion or with animation (i.e., excitement), or trying to speak persuasively (to convince or otherwise make a point), but, no, it is not merely "presentational", it just *is*, and if Dr G is to be believed, and I think he most certainly should be, the hard attack is almost assuredly why I glottal-T so many words that I, by conventional wisdom, shouldn't.
It is the missing piece of the puzzle I've been looking for for a long time now.
I agree. My son has completely different speech patterns when talking at woror with me than when he speaks with his friends.
yes, it reminds me of the way news reporters and news anchors speak.
I agree. I'm not a native English speaker, but we do this in German too. When I speak casually, I often omit glottal stops. "Hier hast du einen..." turns into "hier hasdn...", with three words melting into one. But I have a presentation mode too: when I care about getting a point across, being clear etc, I speak "more clearly" as I was taught, which means not ommiting glottal stops, vowels and so on.
the knowledgable english man has uploaded again i like
I am from Dayton, Ohio. You always know when someone is not from here, by the way they say the name of the city. We say (Day-In), with a Glottal stop between the Day and In. People newer to the area pronounce the T or replace that with a D. We never say Day-Ton.
I picked up a hitchhiker in Vermont. I had Vermont tags but grew up in Maryland. The rider asked "Are you from Maryland?" I said, yes, how did you know? "You just said 'am-byoo-lance.' No one says ambulance like that except people from Maryland.
I find myself doing hard attack on vowels at the start of words when I am intentionally trying to enunciate or speak clearly, like in a presentation or when talking to a foreign English speaker
Exactly, I call it 'presentational' speech. In my hard attack video I show how much less of it one TH-camr uses when she's chatting on the phone.
I (Irish) find that I do it when I'm placing emphasis on the word, whereas I do it less on unemphasised vowel words
Yes! When people use a long A for "a", which they otherwise always pronounce as "uh" and "thee" for "the", otherwise always pronounced as "thuh".
I live in Connecticut (where we're known to drop the "t" (glottal stop) off the end of "connecticut"... as well as dropping the second "c", and flapping the following "t"), but we do say "cotton" here with a glottal "t", like you mentioned at 23:00. There's also a town called "Clinton" which we pronounce with a glottal "t" and without the "n" before it. But there's a town called "Canton", where we do pronounce it with the "n" and a regular "t".
Our Canton in Ohio is usually said without the "t"
Guess it just depends on how the person says "often" or "Bill Clinton" I'm from SW Ohio and don't say the "t"
Edit:But my hometown, Hamilton, I do say the "t" many people don't though
I love your clips, they are helpful in applying phonetics to what I actually hear around me, they show what is happening outside of the vacuum
My take on this is that it's a combination of two things: one, younger people are, I feel, more likely to put emphasis on speaking clearly, especially with the rise of social media. It's much easier for others to understand you when you're posting videos of yourself speaking if you are using hard attack to separate the words out more. Also, with the constant possibility of having your voice caught on video, I think you just become much more aware of how you speak.
Two, it could be that because of the internet, we're exposed so frequently to such a broad range of accents, including UK ones, that our speech begins to unconsciously mirror the speech of those we constantly hear day-to-day. I can say that for me personally, I probably watch at least one video with a British person speaking at least once a day- not because I'm particularly an Anglophile, but because there just happens to be a lot of British people out there making videos.
Regarding younger people I think it's the opposite, they could care less about speaking clearly they'll just spit whatever they have to say.
In that case you'd better not start listening frequently to Davie504.
I agree that young people posting videos may be trying to consciously enunciate so their viewers understand them, and the examples here were pretty much TH-cam and the like. But as a middle-aged American I found the two young women shown in the most examples to have affected pronunciations and sounded obnoxious - I'd click them off fairly quickly. And that guy, The Action Lab, he could be Californian by his harder Rs with some nasal twang thrown in that hurt my ears, certainly not Eastern or Mid-Western. Thankfully, the young people I'm around don't sound like these samples.
@Baard5Szomoru This has not been my observation. I have worked with students in the Midwest and Northeast, poor and wealthy ... and generally I'm surprised by their clearer enunciation. I recall headier times, especially when I watch shows from my childhood in the '90's. Young people are definitely interacting with a wider base of accents and English familiarity and are adapting to be better understood.
Young American speech tends more and more to be influenced by African American speech, both in lexicon and accent. I've always assumed the increase in hard attack is related to that. I also notice that especially with articles, where 'a' and 'the' sometimes only appear in their schwa form, without variation before vowels. This is accomplished by treating hard attack almost like a consonant
Yes, hard attack is quite consonantal. In my original blog, I suggested that if hard attack is a consonant, then /t/ before it could become a glottal stop anyway, so like doʔ com we get doʔ ʔorg. Then maybe the two glottal stops merge?
I love your delivery: you never fail to drop some hilarious easter eggs without breaking your informative and helpful tone. It's almost like deadpan comedy.
Anyway: subscribed😁
big fan of your channel. so glad you brought up New Mexico here! (i would love to hear more of your linguistic experience in the region) ... having moved here as an adult, i am *still* taken back by the glottal stop (and more??) that happens on, for example, the word "mountain". my children now say this, and it is quite funny to be distracted by it in our own house. perhaps i will go post on the blog about this.
Magnificent, fascinating part of the world. My young speaker was the guide on a Breaking Bad-Saul tour! With those shows and the studios there, it feels cutting-edge but more light-hearted than the coasts. But I can't claim to have deeply analysed the state, I'm afraid.
I live near Canton, Ohio (named after Canton, China) and we can always spot a local versus an outsider by how they pronounce the city name. We use the glottal T and syllabic N to make it "Can'n" like "Moun'n" for "Mountain" versus an outsider's more complete "Can-ton."
Cant'n or Canttun 😅
As a Cleveland, Ohio person I guess I’ve always pronounced it Cantin😂
Thank you for this video. I noticed this gradual change visiting the United States and Canada frequently particularly in speakers under 25. Always wanted to know more about it!
I first became aware of this trend 20 years ago, when the American rock band The White Stripes released the song, "The Hardest Button to Button." It was a glottal orgy! I found the sound quite grating, but of course this kind of pronunciation has proliferated in the U.S. since then.
The White Stripes are from Detroit and speak Inland North, specifically the Michiganese variant. There are a lot of glottal stops in Michiganese, and a number of them are carryovers from their German and Dutch ancestors. You can probably hear it in Kid Rock and Bob Seger songs as well.
It still doesn't excuse people for saying "buh-in" nowadays.
That song was the first thing that came to my mind, as an example of glottal T.
@@brandongorte4746I've spent all my life in northern IL, and it's pretty common here, as well. I think it's a little softer, and more "buh•n."
Thanks for the video, I have been bothered by how many times I hear the first T dropped in the word “important “ now I know that it is a glottal T. It drives me nuts (lol) I’ll be checking out your channel more! Greetings from Seattle 😊
You are my new favorite creator! I love the variances in how people speak from region to region and am always so curious about them!
Keep making content so i can be amazed by your knowledge!
I actually noticed this t glottalisation in American speech in songs some time ago. Great video, as always
Fascinating. Yes, as an American, I've definitely noticed these trends in younger speakers. And I do seem to notice them more in female speakers (things like bu-in for button, for example). I've also noticed the loss of the T at the ends of sentences, where there is no following sound. "Did you understand that part? becomes "Did you understand that par?"-so there seems to be an attack on the T all the way round. 🙂 On another subject, I also hear some (again mostly female) young speakers placing a glide in words. "I do, too" becomes "I dyoo tyoo."
Dyoo tyoo is such a fascinating one. Noticed it too.
Hmm, Dyoo tyoo...had not thought about that tyoo much 😉. I'm a central gulf coast Florida native (boomer) and have heard a southern "tyoo" that has long been common here, esp in the upper half of the state (closer to the deep south). I occasionally slide into it myself, although the sound is actually more "tuu" (lips less rounded than "too"). This goes with at least a tinge of southern, and that is how it differs from the "new" tyoo which has no southern surrounding it. These little quirks are so cyool!
P.S. Buh-in and moun-in drive me nuts!
@@mozartk453 And don't forget cah-in (cotton) and fig new-in. Good user name by the way. Love that K. 453! 😊
I’m pretty sure I drop final ts (not sure it’s only T though). I have a friend who’s laughed at me for saying (because I say it frequently) perfect like perfik (“it wasn’t perfik”).
A few years ago, I started hearing the word "important," which I'm used to saying as "imporʔnʔ," being pronounced "impordinʔ" or "impordint." This video, while it doesn't have an example of this exact phenomenon, has helped me to understand it a little better.
There's a trend I've noticed in younger Americans where they do the stereotypical British working class glottal T to such a degree that it actually sounds like two separate words.
For example, the word "certain". Instead of just replacing the T with a glottal stop, it's spoken as if it were two words, with the first word being pronounced fully rather than as a shortened weak form, and a hard attack on the second word. So instead of "certain", it sounds like "sir N". They almost pause and go completely silent between the two syllables.
The first time I heard it was in a Collegehumor sketch called "Gluten free duck", which portrays a duck complaining about the bread it's being fed, saying things like "Does that bread have glue N? Because I can't eat glue N."
It was exaggerated for the sketch, but after that I started hearing it everywhere.
I do the same thing with the word "button". To my parents, it sounds like I'm saying "Bu N", and they joke around about it a lot. I don't even notice I do it until someone points it out.
i've heard a lot of people 30-under do this quite a bit in the last decade? I wonder if it's Harry Potter?
@@pauladuncanadams1750 I doubt it. It doesn't sound very Bri'ish the way they do it, and most of the accents in Harry Potter were very BriTTish.
I can't hear any difference between that and what was discussed in this video.
@@woodfur00 my thoughts too.
Since I was about 5, I've wondered why people (in south-west England) pronounce my name, Jordan, with some sort of back-of-the-throat /d/ that isn't quite a /d/ sound. Now I realise it's a result of the glottal stop + syllabic N together (I think). Thanks!
I need to say something about the wonderfully quietly amusing humor in these videos. Absolutely charming!
I always hear the KIT vowel you describe in Americans as more central and mid, like /ɘ/ (or, call it a fronted schwa). I know it's probably late to add my take on hard attack, but: I used to record acting students talking freely, reading aloud and then speaking lines, and confirmed my belief that in free speech, the hard attack was never as predominant as when they read, or (thence) when they spoke learnt lines; the feeling was strongly that it arose from an impulse to be exact or precise, rather than to be "connected to text" (ie to speak as though their lines arose spontaneously from thought and feeling). Many of your examples of hard attack are clearly people reading from text.
You briefly touched on AAVE, but I would also say recent hard attack in UK speech owes much to so-called MLE, ie the influence not just of West Indian immigrants but also its prevalence in dub poetry (ie performance) and thence to grime, the popularity of which meant that such usage has jumped beyond ethnocultural boundaries.
I really think you’re on to something! I can tell someone’s reading something even when they’re doing a really good job. Listening to podcasts, I can tell the difference between a podcaster’s reading advertisement voice and their conversational tone, but even when they’re reading a scripted podcast! It comes in handy when skipping 30 seconds ahead, and I don’t have to hear that many words to know if I should keep skipping or not.
wtf, KIT AAVE MLE?
dub poetry thence to grime... 😅
li[?]erally have no clue what you're going on abou[?]
DR GEOFF LINDSEY VIDEO HAS DROPPED.
Now I know what I’m doing over lunch
I will have to listen and re-listen to this video to catch everything. Truly wonderfully presented. I was so intrigued about Dr.Geoff's coverage of the glottal stop with the re-inserted vowel immediately following it. I am hearing that all the time in the past ten years here in the Chicago area. I'm 64 and never heard gottal stops in common conversation except in a few words like certain and sweeten that have already been covered. The inserted vowel afterwards sounds jarring to me.
One of the most famous scenes from Xenoblade 3 gave us "wotah" poking fun at one of the characters' Welsh accent, especially since it's juxtaposed with another character's tapping American accent. Less well famous is a scene with the same word from two other characters, including a glotalizing Cockney accent. So there are at least 3 different pronunciations of "water" within one game. I'll also mention that all 4 of these characters are main party members and no one in-game points out the different accents.
"Wotah"
"Wawder"
and "Wo'ah"
I didn't expect Xeno 3, but it actually is a pretty interesting mix of accents to examine isn't it
@@isharpu1977Xenoblade 2 was much easier to distinguish since the accents were based more on where the characters were from, whereas Xenoblade 3 has less consistency to how they're distributed, causing more ambiguity as to which accent a character has.
After graduating with a bachelor's in linguistics, one of the phD students who was a not native English speaker gave me some work phonetically transcribing specific words and sentences in her interviews with people from Michigan (the state we were in), Virginia, Turkey, and I think it was China if I recall correctly. She didn't go in depth with what the study was because she didn't want to influence my transcriptions, but I'm fairly certain it was connected to this topic, because I remember the Michigan samples had a high degree of glottal stop + kit vowel insertion in the primary words, while the Virginians were mostly glottal stop only. I don't know how the Turkish and Mandarin speaking natives were being compared in the study though.
For Mandarin speakers speaking English, how they speak will vary widely depending on where they are from and what other language(s) they speak. IIRC, Singaporeans use a LOT of glottal stop.
So interesting! Thanks, Doc. You're helping me learn my wife's native Tagalog because I am more aware of those things to listen for in her speech.
I’m from Essex, UK and my SO is from New England. I’m an accent chameleon, shifting as the situation requires for understanding. She’s a singing teacher studying Estil. Love your videos!
Of course we all know what Americans did with their Ts. Chucked it in Boston harbour 😂
Merry Christmas!🎄
Fascinating. And as usual, surprisingly well-explained, making an extremely strong case for the points made. Thanks a lot 🙏
In Danish the the glottal stops are far more well-established and well-behaved. A short and clean kind of glottal stop ('hard attack') is compulsory at the beginning of word-initial vowels, unless void of syllabic stress. And a much longer and heavier glottal stop is pronounced on top of the latter half of both long vowels and sonorant consonants in specific words in some of those words' inflections. This second type is more like an 'almost-stop' which is always released whilst the co-articulated sonorant is still in place, giving the impression of its brief return just before it ends. And the appearances of the second type of glottal stop has regional variations. But new types of appearances or disappearances are rare and small.
They may seem well-behaved to Danes, but for this non-native stød can be very tricky to hear and even harder to copy!
@@DrGeoffLindsey
And ironically, the word 'stød' itself is without stød, even though its phonetic structure is well suited for the job 🤦♂️..😅😅
As an American Southerner, I've been T glottaling all my life.
As a Dubliner I am constantly amazed at how many different ways we have in Dublin of pronouncing "t" (or not). You should check us out! Sometimes its like a reflexive "r" (a birr a fun, where the tongue taps forward for the t of bit), sometimes it's a rhotic "r" (same example, a bira fun), sometimes it's glotal. It all depends on where you come from...
Yes! I think it's so fun. I've noticed the way I pronounce it has changed over time, as I went to a suburban school with a relatively posh dublin accent, but have since moved into the city centre. I definitely end up doing more glottalisation these days!
Do you mean glottal stops? In which contexts? ɡeʔ aʊʔ, bɒʔl and wɒʔɚ or only at the end of a word? Is that only in Dublin? Thank you!!
@@clerigocarriedo Come and see!
I’m convinced Dr. Geoff Lindsey is a genius. These videos are truly incredible. Thank you for opening my eyes to the peculiarities and nuance of language!
Vermonter here (31yo male): there's a perception in this area that "t-dropping" is associated with the accent of local rural communities. "Vermonter" sounds like "Vermonner", and "mountain" has the glottal stop. Less commonly but still heard, "Milton" drops the L and also uses the glottal stop for the T, so it's often misheard as "mitten". In both "mountain" and "Milton", inserting the kit vowel between the glottal stop and the N is also fairly common, though usually heard in younger speakers and/or the more urban areas.
I'm always impressed by how you find all these clips! Do you just always keep a notebook with you when you watch television or youtube to jot a memo when you catch an example of a feature you plan to talk about some day?
Youglish
Thank you so much for your research and videos! They are so interesting and fun to watch! I can't believe this one was 25' long, it felt like less than 10'. 💜
Another excellent analysis from Dr Lindsey! What I've noticed again and again from Americans, both in real life and in TV shows, is the inability you mention to contract. For example, instead of "woudn't", "shouldn't", "couldn't", they often pronounce the words as if they actually contained the missing contracted vowels: "would ent", "should ent", "could ent" etc. Very strange.
Thanks! Not strange really. Languages in general find our old contractions the odd one out.
As a Geordie speaker, I have noticed people saying that we do not pronounce 't' in the middle of a word. Admittedly it is soft and sometimes pronounced as a 'd". I once heard a dialect coach teaching actors to speak in a Geordie accent by dropping ALL midword 't' s. The first time I heard someone try this in TV drama, I thought they must be portraying someone with a severe speech impediment.😂
Fellow Geordie - Don't think I've ever heard it pronounced as a D? What words were you thinking of? The glottalling of the t is common, but don't think it turns into a D sound?
Similarly, when I hear British people trying to pronounce the American "d" replacing "t," it sounds wrong. It is not THAT much of a d.
As an example in my American speech, I pronounce the words "mitten", "smitten", "written", etc. with a glottal stop in place of T. Same thing before suffixes in "flightless", "fitness", "witness", "shirtless", "fitful". Also "heightened, brightened, fateful"
This is what I have noticed a pretty dramatic change in. The way words are pronounced with a double t in the middle of the word. I’m 59 and I use a glottal stop when I say mitten but it’s like mi-in and the second syllable has less emphasis. When I hear younger Americans saying the word it sounds like mi-en with a hard pronunciation of the second syllable and it fascinated me that I was actually seeing a shift in the language. Unfortunately when I tried to point this out to my niece she thought I was criticizing her when that wasn’t it at all. It’s also funny that while typing this in my head every “t” in every word was pronounced completely not at all the way I actually speak
Me too. Also I say cotton with a glottal stop, and I'm a 44 year old male. I don't think this is a new phenomenon at all.
I'm pretty sure I've heard all of these before but I'm having trouble imagining "fitful" or "fateful" with a glottal stop while still sounding American
How do you pronounce 'important'? I've noticed quite a lot of Americans use a glottal stop (e.g. 'impor[ʔ]an') and wondered whether it's more common in a specific region of the USA.
@@jamesnite2157 I honestly think almost all Americans use the glottal stop to say important. I can't think of any other way we'd say it. Unless you're enunciating for effect.
I was watching the CS50 lectures from Harvard and the staff is mad crazy to listen to. The glottal stops, the fry, the rushed stressing