What a machine, and what a feat of engineering this is!. At the same time, so many things that can go wrong.. I think I'll stick to the Arturia CS-80 for now :)
It is very possible after understanding how this complex machine works. CAN data bus between 3-4 "modules" would simplify the wiring and assembly costs. Simply have power and serial data between them. Self calibrating initial trigger/aftertouch sensors in the keyboard deck (module 1), manual control panel interface which has all the sliders etc (module 2), android type tablet touch screen interface/presets (module 3) and finally the voice card stack and post effects processing (module 4)... but it would still be a very expensive machine, 3-4 thousand dollars at best. The post effects (reverb, chorus, hall etc) would be in a DSP, preferably using licensed firmware from Lexicon for example. Trust me, I have pondered this deeply... an entire DSP solution would lose the integrity.. so have to keep the 16 free running oscillators and Yamaha specific filters. The aforementioned virtual control panel (tablet touch screen) would work in unison with the motorized encoded sliders (encoder tech same as common digital calipers for example). When you change your preset, the sliders follow position in real time, also allowing you to tweak the settings during play to keep that man/machine interaction alive vs sterile touch interface only. I would like to also have the ability to change keyboard weighting as well. Everything would be digital, including the mechanical sliders...so nothing to wear out and/or drift over time. I wish I had more time to make it happen. But it looks like somebody is doing it now... a rack mount version. www.deckardsdream.com thank you MrMargaretScratcher for that link.
Does this unit have the MIDI addition? Have you seen those Kenton MIDI products for this machine? There is a guy making a thing called Vax MIDI which is a full size poly-AT keyboard....you put it together yourself so it is cheaper to purchase. The closest thing I will ever get to a CS80 is the software versions, but you can't find good keyboard controllers. All of the recommendations are for 25+ year old Ensoniq models and Kurzweil MIDIboards.
deckardsdream may really be the dream come true. He shows 8 voice cards instead of 16 though with 2 banks of control. Not sure why unless it is 4 note polyphony instead of 8 ... looking into this and thank you for mentioning it. Update: looks as if each of his voice cards are equivalent of 2 traditional voice cards. So a total of 16 voices on 8 cards.
Thanks! I am working on it. Also have a brief video coming of me doing a complete restoration (all 40 circuit boards) of #1701 (Frank Zappa's CS-80) which was brought to me. More of a before/after slide show actually. Now there is a guy who played his keyboards... even the palladium key contacts on #1701 are worn out which isn't supposed to happen.
Wow ! A follow-up to your original video series, after so long ! :) Very very nice. Thank you very much for that and to your dedication and the knowledge you are sharing with us on youtube. Would you be keen on maybe re-uploading your older videos on the CS-80 with a better video quality, if the source material is available ? That would be great...!
indeed, and the ridiculously high prices (somewhat justified) never include restoration fees (which can be between 30% and 60% of the price you paid for it unserviced. Bottomless wallets only.
The song played during the circuit board flyover was from TH-cam's copyright free music library. I'll try to find the name and add it in the description. The intro and exit songs are direct from my CS-80. Don't have names for them.
Thank you, man! Also thanks for the close-up of all the boards. Could you perhaps do one more close-up on the back side of the ribbon controller? Just to see what that looks like.
Might be a problem with the gating of the voice cards. First thing is to make sure all power supply voltages are in spec. If the voltage drifts off, the voltage level translation between the key controller chip and the voice card's envelope control chip is too far offset causing muted output. 1) Check and calibrate power supply voltages. They must be exact. If problems keeping alignment, you will need to rebuild your power supply. 2) After power supply calibration and still having the mute problem, check for a change in voltage to terminal 63 (TR wire) on each voice card. You may have to press the keys multiple times before the card you are testing will have a state change at TR terminal. TR is trigger, a control voltage that "wakes" the voice card by unmuting it. All voice card oscillators are constantly in operation, they are simply "gated" or muted when not called upon.
Hi! I'm from Brazil and I have a Yamaha CS80 for around 7 years. In those 7 years it’s been through repair and now I have no sound out of it. The CS80 powers normally, but no sound… Only low noise (if I switch on the chorus, i can hear it affecting this noise) Brazil is a crazy country and we don’t have enough technicians to repair it… So, I’m wondering if you can help me in any way. I’ve already changed death master VCA (chip Ig00159) and nothing… Do you have any ideais? If it wasn’t too heavy and expensive, I would send it to you for a repair! I have the possibility to change for a Arp 2600. Should I? Thanks In advance!!!
Greetings, I am from the USA. 1) Did you verify all voltage rails are good? If they are out of tolerance, trigger voltages may be off enough to cause mute voices. 2) If voltages are within specifications, need to make sure that the key controller chip is working. At the bottom left of large KAS board is a row of 8 test pins. They should change voltage as you press keys in no particular order. When these pins go low voltage (-6.5v), they activate the appropriate pair of voice cards. Can you verify? Need to make sure the digital computer part of the CS-80 is working before going any farther. If the voltages on the test pins are not changing, there may be a problem with the CPU clock or the power up reset circuit.
Thaks Dollar Guy! Unfortunately I know nothing about synth repair... Just an ordinary musician... But thanks a lot for your reply! I will have to find a good tech guy here in Brazil and show him your message! Thanks again!
Building an analog one would not be economically feasible, even with surface mount technology. A digital version could be practical, and might weigh 1/5 at most, but would still stay rather expensive through the need for a poly aftertouch keyboard, a long ribbon and the number of additional hardware controllers involved. And then it would still be a bit like building a hardware controller for a softsynth. What a glorious thing it would still be though. :-)
Great video. Informative and shows the internals of this big beast
What a machine, and what a feat of engineering this is!. At the same time, so many things that can go wrong.. I think I'll stick to the Arturia CS-80 for now :)
Technology is getting better and better so I don't see why no one can remake this 1:1.
It is very possible after understanding how this complex machine works. CAN data bus between 3-4 "modules" would simplify the wiring and assembly costs. Simply have power and serial data between them. Self calibrating initial trigger/aftertouch sensors in the keyboard deck (module 1), manual control panel interface which has all the sliders etc (module 2), android type tablet touch screen interface/presets (module 3) and finally the voice card stack and post effects processing (module 4)... but it would still be a very expensive machine, 3-4 thousand dollars at best. The post effects (reverb, chorus, hall etc) would be in a DSP, preferably using licensed firmware from Lexicon for example. Trust me, I have pondered this deeply... an entire DSP solution would lose the integrity.. so have to keep the 16 free running oscillators and Yamaha specific filters. The aforementioned virtual control panel (tablet touch screen) would work in unison with the motorized encoded sliders (encoder tech same as common digital calipers for example). When you change your preset, the sliders follow position in real time, also allowing you to tweak the settings during play to keep that man/machine interaction alive vs sterile touch interface only. I would like to also have the ability to change keyboard weighting as well. Everything would be digital, including the mechanical sliders...so nothing to wear out and/or drift over time. I wish I had more time to make it happen. But it looks like somebody is doing it now... a rack mount version. www.deckardsdream.com thank you MrMargaretScratcher for that link.
Does this unit have the MIDI addition? Have you seen those Kenton MIDI products for this machine? There is a guy making a thing called Vax MIDI which is a full size poly-AT keyboard....you put it together yourself so it is cheaper to purchase. The closest thing I will ever get to a CS80 is the software versions, but you can't find good keyboard controllers. All of the recommendations are for 25+ year old Ensoniq models and Kurzweil MIDIboards.
Someone is doing just that, more or less:
www.deckardsdream.com/
This one (my personal CS-80) does not have MIDI at this time.
deckardsdream may really be the dream come true. He shows 8 voice cards instead of 16 though with 2 banks of control. Not sure why unless it is 4 note polyphony instead of 8 ... looking into this and thank you for mentioning it. Update: looks as if each of his voice cards are equivalent of 2 traditional voice cards. So a total of 16 voices on 8 cards.
a daunting project.
Great! Very happy to see this marvel getting fixed. Like your "stay tuned" joke, too! I'd buy that for a dollar…
So cool. Have to be ultra smart to figure that stuff out. And that's coming from an engineer. Subbed
Great work and video! Can't wait for part 2.
Wow! Great quality and awsome to see!
Thanks for another great addition.
The internals are beautiful, but also an illustration of why synths couldn't carry on being made like this.
Damn dude. That was amazing. Thank you.
Can't wait to see the next video!
Thanks! I am working on it. Also have a brief video coming of me doing a complete restoration (all 40 circuit boards) of #1701 (Frank Zappa's CS-80) which was brought to me. More of a before/after slide show actually. Now there is a guy who played his keyboards... even the palladium key contacts on #1701 are worn out which isn't supposed to happen.
Wow ! A follow-up to your original video series, after so long ! :)
Very very nice. Thank you very much for that and to your dedication and the knowledge you are sharing with us on youtube.
Would you be keen on maybe re-uploading your older videos on the CS-80 with a better video quality, if the source material is available ? That would be great...!
Man it would be awesome to own a Yamaha CS-80. Man it would be horrible to cough up the money to have it serviced properly. :)
indeed, and the ridiculously high prices (somewhat justified) never include restoration fees (which can be between 30% and 60% of the price you paid for it unserviced. Bottomless wallets only.
Great video. Where is part 9!
So... three years on, how about the second part of this series?
Next part please!!
Any updates on Part 2??? I need to do this!
thats how behringer keyboards are made on the DM 12
Next video, please!
Is the next video coming?
Thanks so much for sharing this! Do you think you could share with us the names of the songs you use in this video?
The song played during the circuit board flyover was from TH-cam's copyright free music library. I'll try to find the name and add it in the description. The intro and exit songs are direct from my CS-80. Don't have names for them.
Thank you, man! Also thanks for the close-up of all the boards. Could you perhaps do one more close-up on the back side of the ribbon controller? Just to see what that looks like.
hi my cs-50 has slowly lost volume, and now nothing even on high, any ideas please Yamaha people? thank you for this great video.
Might be a problem with the gating of the voice cards. First thing is to make sure all power supply voltages are in spec. If the voltage drifts off, the voltage level translation between the key controller chip and the voice card's envelope control chip is too far offset causing muted output.
1) Check and calibrate power supply voltages. They must be exact. If problems keeping alignment, you will need to rebuild your power supply.
2) After power supply calibration and still having the mute problem, check for a change in voltage to terminal 63 (TR wire) on each voice card. You may have to press the keys multiple times before the card you are testing will have a state change at TR terminal. TR is trigger, a control voltage that "wakes" the voice card by unmuting it. All voice card oscillators are constantly in operation, they are simply "gated" or muted when not called upon.
thank you so much for your advice I will get to it and let you know how it turns out,
Hi!
I'm from Brazil and I have a Yamaha CS80 for around 7 years. In those 7 years it’s been through repair and now I have no sound out of it. The CS80 powers normally, but no sound… Only low noise (if I switch on the chorus, i can hear it affecting this noise)
Brazil is a crazy country and we don’t have enough technicians to repair it… So, I’m wondering if you can help me in any way. I’ve already changed death master VCA (chip Ig00159) and nothing… Do you have any ideais?
If it wasn’t too heavy and expensive, I would send it to you for a repair!
I have the possibility to change for a Arp 2600. Should I?
Thanks In advance!!!
Greetings, I am from the USA.
1) Did you verify all voltage rails are good? If they are out of tolerance, trigger voltages may be off enough to cause mute voices.
2) If voltages are within specifications, need to make sure that the key controller chip is working. At the bottom left of large KAS board is a row of 8 test pins. They should change voltage as you press keys in no particular order. When these pins go low voltage (-6.5v), they activate the appropriate pair of voice cards. Can you verify? Need to make sure the digital computer part of the CS-80 is working before going any farther. If the voltages on the test pins are not changing, there may be a problem with the CPU clock or the power up reset circuit.
Thaks Dollar Guy! Unfortunately I know nothing about synth repair... Just an ordinary musician... But thanks a lot for your reply! I will have to find a good tech guy here in Brazil and show him your message! Thanks again!
I'd buy that for a dollar!
Would you buy any synthesizer for a dollar?
I don't understand why Yamaha don't made a new Yamaha cs80
Building an analog one would not be economically feasible, even with surface mount technology. A digital version could be practical, and might weigh 1/5 at most, but would still stay rather expensive through the need for a poly aftertouch keyboard, a long ribbon and the number of additional hardware controllers involved. And then it would still be a bit like building a hardware controller for a softsynth. What a glorious thing it would still be though. :-)
Marc Brassé I hope so that they made
Another guy in Japan has done this apparently as a rack mount. Deckersdream.com
can i buy this?
Sure! Why not? At least $18.000-$20.000 and it's yours.