Defeating Sparrows, Starlings and Grackles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Learn how you can help keep sparrows, starlings and grackles out of your feeders and houses! Liz from The Bird House in Rochester, NY will give different tips and tricks you can use in your backyard.
Visit www.thebirdhouseny.com for more information, or to purchase some of the items mentioned in the video.
I get so many sparrows it's like a horror movie. They look like a hoard of mice. They give me the creeps. I'm not far from Rochester in Scranton. I have to stop feeding birds. It's just no worth it. I can't afford all the feed they eat.
Super pet peeve: When I am watching a birding video and the speaker talks about "here" or "now" and I have no idea where they are or what time of year it is. I see you are in NY here but no idea what is "when." Perhaps there is a secret way to know that I have not yet discovered. However, excellent video otherwise, thank you.
THIS is such an excellent and thoroughly informative presentation about bird boxes and design advantages. I really appreciate the refresher! This was a particularly rough year for the Tree Swallows and Bluebirds, house sparrows have been directly attacking the parents on the boxes as well as entering and pecking bluebird chicks in the nest, leaving them all dead. From species, to housing, to seed types, all great information and I'll be sharing! Thank you!
I love mourning doves, and will buy food just to have them come back to my place. They are such gentle birds.
Dunn: So Frederick, did your success change using these suggestions? I'm desperately seeking a winning strategy.🤨
Really good video. So informative! I've been backyard squirrel/bird feeding going on five years now.
By default bc of where i reside, I LOOK for the sparrows, starling and grackles bc the pigeons are incessant!
American blue jays, morning dove and cardinals are regular feeders. Robins come around from time to time. Rarely the snowy woodpecker and yellow finches visit.
I live on the third floor and got a huge, beautiful evergreen (I think it's a white fir) tree that I throw suet onto. I can spread it out so the sparrow, starling and grackle are not on top of each other.
I throw (from the third floor) down peanut unsalted in the shell, walnuts in the shell (I use the tree to break the fall so as to not crack the shells) I put out freeze dried mealworms and wild birdseed. It's rather unconventional how their food is served, but it works!
So, i got a good laugh in addition to education from watching this video.
Thanks for sharing!
Phenomenal! Even with all the bird books I have, none put together as clear and concise comparison of sparrows or how to defeat the flocks of obnoxious birds and promote the more preferred types to feeders. Thank you!
Sparrows assassin brids of babyes purpule martin
This was great. Straight talk, no interruptions, and available
DO NOT USE FISH LINE USE CRAFT WIRE. BIRDS CAN GET TANGLED IN FISH LINE!!!!
Why not feed all small Birds ?!
Too many ums bad bad habit
I've noticed that my bluebirds only defend their nest from other cavity nesters. They never bother the other types of sparrows that are around their boxes. They also leave the house finches and other small open nesters alone.
European sparrows, squirrels, or anything else that nests in cavities is an instant battle.
If you're ever confused as to whether the sparrow you're concerned about is a European sparrow or a native species sparrow, the bluebirds will tell you 😉
I killed about 45 house sparrows six years ago, I don't see them anymore, they are a pest, predator that will kill and break eggs. I have purple martins also.
I've heard that fishing line is inappropriate to use with bird feeders because birds can get tangled in it. Lighter weight metal wires that hang down should be a safer option.
I use craft wire with a weight on the end for my halos. Works like a charm! No HOSP bothered my feeders at all this past winter!
I wish someone would come to Baltimore and teach the grackles and sparrows to NOT like safflower
There's cages that you can buy to put around your bird feeders to where the big birds cannot get to it.
Get some cheap shelled corn, not cracked corn, for the less desirable birds, BUT those birds are not as good flyers and more easier catches for the smaller hawks and the big black birds are better lookouts and alarms when cats and hawks come round.
Great starting tips! Sparrows killed my baby bluebirds last May. I stopped putting out any food. Now, in October, the bluebirds have just started coming back. And there is a pair of sparrows that come at the same time. These sparrows seem to follow the bluebirds! Hoping some of your tips will deter the sparrows!
Excellent video! Thank you! I’ve decided I like grackles! They are native birds unlike House Sparrows and Starlings. Grackle populations have declined by about 50% since records have been kept. To me, their most distinguishing feature-after suspecting they are starlings or blackbirds, is their long curved tails. Starlings have stubby tails. Grackles rank #9 on the Concern chart. (20 is Worst…tree swallows-10, black-capped chickadees-7, Carolina chickadee-9, blue jay-8, dark-eyed junko-8, eastern bluebird-7).
We have no concern w blue Jay's or chickadees in sw ohio. We also see the hybrid of the two chickadees. So many chickadees here. I love talking w them
Wonderful presentation! Liz, you are so easy to listen to. Thank you and keep these coming!
Starlings will check everyone of my birdhouses each morning.same with squirrels.real pest.
Well I love starling and I have never heard of them doing that and the ones we have where I live area bit friendlier.
Wow!! Such a great video and information. The safflower works very well for me keeping those grackles and starlings away.
Thank you! Great information! I will definitely try the safflower seeds. I've also had some success in the past by taping a metallic pinwheel to my bluebird house to keep the sparrows away.
thanks for an excellent presentation. Am glad to know about the upside down suet feeder; starlings polished off a suet cake in a regular wire box within 24 hours.
is there a sparrow hierarchy? Geez. The house sparrows and starlings are not here on their own accord. If you want to have bluebirds, buy a house in a rural area. House sparrows do not like rural settings. Then there is always the wrens, so you need a Tree swallow. on and on..... just be happy. They are all Gods creatures and are here for a reason. I like grackles.
We have a real problem with returning House Wrens destroying the eggs of Bluebirds and Chickadees. The Bluebirds & Chickadees have a headstart on choosing nesting boxes. A real heartbreaker. Because House Wrens are native, we can only try to keep an eye on the Bluebird houses (that are occupied by Bluebirds or Chickadees) and shoo the House Wrens away from boxes already occupied.
Any suggestions?
I live in town and have few problems with black birds thank heavens. But have tons of sparrows. They are a pain. They eat peanuts which are not for them and my suet. I do put cheap seed on the ground for them, which many do eat. But still have enough eating the peanuts and suet. The best way to keep them away is safflower. They do not like, neither do squirrels.
Honestly, the best defense I've had against starlings, grackles, and cow birds is to get morning doves to your feeder. They're not scared of any bird that I've seen so far and can definitely hold their own. For the most part it seems that the smaller birds (like the American Goldfinch) don't mind the mourning dove as much. The other nice thing is that morning doves are prettier to look at than the others as well as are much more skiddish of humans so they won't completely dominate your feeder.
In my experience mourning doves also scare song birds so I discourage them too by using caged bird feeders. I use a bb gun for starlings only. Not grackles or sparrows.
The sparrow are bullies but the the Starlings are horrible. They fight So Much & I hate finding feathers on my
Flowers & plants &"grass I've tried the different feeders & in different places, they jus go fight off the colorful birds & go back to the seeds they actually like. They've taken the joy out of it & I can't afford anymore different feeders. My last try will be the string &or the silver strimmers. I'll probably stick with hummingbirds & orioles only.
Yah my pellet gun isnt workin as well as i would like it too!n its pretty damn good one!my wild turkeys n my lil squirrels n song birds have to suffer i cant take it once damn spring actually comes i will no longer need to help my wild animals!!soon!you forgot to put down blue jays!another awful loud annoying bully!tho i dont see then as much since these friggin grackles n sparrows EVERYWHERE!!
I have pretty birds i give them peanuts on the ground...and I enjoyed watching until they arrived...ruined the experience....I was thinking about getting a BB gun....
I don't understand your comment at all.
Are you saying you tricked them with food so you can hunt them for fun?
Thanks so much - we have been back from Florida two weeks and totally distressed that we only have grackles and a few sparrows! I had forgotten about safflower seed and will try that!
Safflower really helps and other birds learn to like it but prefer the regular food with sunflower seeds.
Feed all birds, why discriminate? They are all useful in their own way.
I don’t mind the sparrows...it’s the starlings and grackles.
Excellent advice I have a huge sparrow flock but I also have a nice number of Cardinals that come to feeder. I will use the safflower seeds exclusively but what bout black oiled sunflower seeds that I know the Cardinals like. Is there a way to give the more desired birds variety without the sparrows taking over everything??
Starlings CAN eat the upside down feeder. Also, birds are lighter and less colorful are not "drab", but exactly how they are meant to be.
I enjoyed your video. Very informative and a pleasure to watch. You should add your website to the info so people can find you.
Thanks so much for instituting these videos...This presentation was excellent and informative..Topics for the future might include waterfowl and warble identification..thanks so much...
nicely done, Liz WE also are getting fewer birds through the winter. Now it appears the Red wing blackbirds et al have arrived early. My question is for the bluebird house with the rectangular opening, what is the height of the opening?
I don't know where this information of sparrows not eating insects out of nesting season comes from. I can tell you from firsthand experience that this is simply not true. They are my #1 insect eaters and it doesn't stop until the insects have gone into winter hibernation. The problem is that they will also eat bumblebees and honeybees as well. I have to throw nets over my vegetables and use flowers with black eyes (the sparrows can't find them on a dark surface), just to give the bees a fighting chance.
My upside down dirt feeder is not starling proof. They fly up and sometimes they can latch on to the cage. It’s so frustrating.
Why the hell would you want to defeat sparrows and starlings? They're the most entertaining birds to watch
I agree. They’re also among the few birds we commonly interact with because they’re so abundant and they depend on us for survival.
Why do people think that sparrows are bullies? They are cute little birds. Starlings are the bullies. They eat all the food not letting the little birds ( sparrows ) eat.
what zone are you in ?. I live in Greenville, South Carolina 29621
My birds won't eat safflower and the grackles love it
can the Male Sparrow identify himself as Female? I mean its a free country
"You can't get them 100% out of your yard" Oh really? I've accomplished that, guess how.
How? Please educate us...
17 or 22 ?
@@VagoniusThicket I use 22.
Please start with month and your location, so we can compare our date & location. Going to try these ideas.
Try reading the description for once ass hat. March 17th of 2020, lazy B!
Do not use hallows when the newborn sparrows come out. The will.adapt.
My birdboxes have 1 1/8" holes and are all full of house sparrows.
Going with upside down suet. Wood peckers seem to have no trouble and the starlings can't hang on. Thank You so much. Safflower seed is next try.
The starlings that visit my upside down suet feeder figured it out. They alternate between hanging on for dear life and ramming their beaks up repeatedly to grab some of the suet.
In the pacific north west we get Violet Green swallows, Violet green swallows will fit into a 7/8 oval . The 7/8 oval keeps house sparrows out. Another hole size i use is the 1 and 1/8 round hole , the 1 and 1/8 round hole for sure keeps house sparrows out . On Vancouver island Red breasted nut hatches fit into the 1 and 1/8 round hole . Any hole size larger than the 7/8 oval or the 1 and 1/8 round hole needs to come with a warning as it will not keep house sparrows out .
Thanks so much - very informative and so helpful!
Do Goldfinch’s like safflower seeds?
I tried safflower seeds and the house sparrows emptied the feeder onto the ground, i never saw any other birds at that feeder
Really well done and so appreciated from a customer that lives an hour away and can't make the Tuesday talks. Thank you!!
I can't get rid of the house finches at my feeder. They are like a huge mob
This was informative and interesting Liz. Great job. Thank you!!
I live in NC. You said birds don't like the small yellow seeds and millet in the cheaper variety mixes, but the birds in my yard gobble it up. Some of them prefer the sunflower, but many birds with small beaks like doves only eat the millet.
Very informative. Thanks.
Again do not use fish line please add a note or update your video. Use wire and weight
Nice presentation and very interesting. It seems as if there were definitely fewer birds at my feeders this year, wonder if anyone else has had the same experience. Keep the videos coming - I rarely make the time to come to classes, it's nice to be able to watch at one's one selected time.
I think i have a house sparrow nest under my patio
Great video but I have to disagree with some of your content. You have made some misleading statements "Starlings will not cling,, " not true starlings and grackles have evolved to clinging birds- I have starlings and grackles clinging to peanut and suet feeders all day long and empty the feeder in short order. "Upside down suet feeders will not have starlings feeding" not true- starlings will cling.. and empty the suet feeder. They also use what is called the helicopter technique/move which involves hovering under the feeder and feeding from the "upside down feeders".
For everyone else there is no successful way to deter starlings,grackles or sparrows ( very invasive non-native species). They have evolved to any new method and will continue to be a nuisance, bully bird at your feeder.
I have no solutions for these birds either- so I will keep searching for answers-
Nothing seems to deter them.
The only thing that would be 100% is removing all your feeders and taking up another hobby.
I agree. The grackles cling to my peanut and suet feeders. I’ve resorted to buying a cage to put them in. It’s a bummer because I can’t see the birds as well.
@@Talkingdaisy-no6nu Same problem here. I had to put plain suet in my upside down feeder, which the starlings were not really interested in. Only problem is it started melting on hot days.
House sparrows are great. Best bois.
I just ordered one of these as recommended by another commenter:
www.sparrowtraps.net/
It's got a lot of great reviews. I just had house sparrows show up on my property this year and they harassed my nesting bluebirds relentlessly until I put up a homemade sparrow spooker. I'm declaring war! I hope everyone will buy one.
@@anonemoose9130 If you enjoy seeing our native songbirds like bluebirds, tree swallows, and chickadees dead!
I have a ton of house sparrows in my yard I like them they like to eat bugs out of the yard well least I see him in the yard and stuff out of it all the time but I want other birds to so like maybe if I get different type of bird feeders and birdhouses maybe they could share space is that a thing or what do you think 🤔 i just want more birds I had a big woodpecker and they took its nest that a built-in a tree like it built a big hole in the tree and they took it so maybe if I get a birdhouse box they'll move out of that and go in the house sparrow nesting box maybe my woodpecker could come back I don't know
I'm in Missouri and the thing we did to bring in a variety of birds was to have several "stations." We get the cheap Walmart bird feed and put it in pie tins on top of posts and railings and also down low on old logs, rocks and then some on the ground. Yes the squirrels get some and yes the sparrows get some but we also get juncos, chickadees, nut hatches, Carolina wrens and doves. I have a suet cake hung from a post that the woodpeckers love. Eastern bluebirds don't like my seed but they enjoy my birdbath which is just a plastic barrel with a flat lid that holds a shallow amount of water.
Just found your channel I have a problem with the crows or black birds the chase all the other birds away
The last video I watched called for the protections of all life. "Defeating these pests" as some see them, falls within the rules... lol.
Good show. I stopped safflower a long time ago, but I'll probably give it another try. My starlings are pretty athletic, upside down suet did not work on a homemade feeder, but I may try buying one. Thanks!
Starlings figure out ways to get at the suet even when it's upside down. The only thing that might discourage them is plain suet that has no cracked corn, nuts, fruit, etc... I had some that worked well, but unfortunately it's not melt-resistant for those hot summer days. As an alternative I purchased bark butter (a suet knock-off) in a stackable form and placed it in a dome feeder, which I lowered to make it just wide enough for my woodpeckers to enter.
In the UK Sparrows are a good bird to see but I guess in America its different. BTW Sparrows are peaceful in the UK to.
We do what we have to do to get the bird we want and try to deter others we dont want. I use safflower seed in a tray feeder and went to upside down goldfinch feeders which has stopped the house finches from taking over the sock feeders which I no longer use now.
Fishing line did nothing for my feeders.
Grackles and Starlings look nothing alike.
Do the native sparrow have the same aggression tendencies against other native cavity nesting birds as house sparrows?
They usually do not, for the most part the native sparrows are not cavity nesters and do not compete for nesting sites.
I have all these species in my yard and the only ones that have ever harassed my nesting bluebirds are the HOUSE sparrows... which unfortunately showed up in our yard for the first time this past summer. I even witnessed a female house sparrow having a stare-down with a female bluebird on a branch, about 2 ft apart. The bluebird had a bug in her mouth and just wanted to go feed her babies. They sat there a long time, and finally the bluebird couldn't wait any longer and flew to her house, with the house sparrow right on her tail. That's the day I put up a homemade sparrow spooker and thankfully, it worked! Our bluebirds raised 5 babies, without harassment.
beginner info
Where is "here"?
thks for an informative presentation.....SSWilliams
This was great. Very informative. Took notes so I could recall what you said. Thank you.
The feeder you showed near the end which is a double suet feeder is one I have but dont use anymore. The reason being eventually the house sparrows flocked and raided it and starling can reach in and reach the suet. which aggravated me to know end. That feeder to keep starling out would need more space between the outer caging and the suet. I originally started using it for downy woodpecker which did use , but it was the previous factors why I dont use it anymore.
Yep, 100% agree…. We threw ours away.
@@johnross6314 Didnt trash mine and have found a way to deter house sparrows and starlings. I now put a plastic casing the same casing that a lot of suet seed comes and put some hardware cloth on the face of the casing 1/4" and now House Sparrows no longer use it and it also makes it more difficult for starlings although they can still reach in to get some of the suet. Another thing I did was go to the upside down finch feeder as last season the house finches had taken over the sock feeders and upright type finch feeders. Now the goldfinches eat in peace , I actually now have 2 upside feeders and may get a third one as so many goldfinches now use this feeder.
Also if you live in the country where it's possible to use an airgun, this is one of the best ways to reduce populations of these pest birds! :) Taking a female this time of year is like removing as many as 12 new pests!!!
Anyone found a good trap for starlings and/or sparrows ?
They are suddenly driving me crazy.
It needs to be a live trap with 1 door only, so I can
look at the prey before I dispose of them
Bill Zardus saw good reviews of these: www.sparrowtraps.net/
@@GeorgeCoghill Just bought one of these through your link. Thank you George! We had house sparrows show up on our property for the first time this year, they harassed our bluebirds and are now putting nesting material in the bluebird's house... I'm declaring war!
@@SweetStuffOnMonarchLane I bought one in the early Summer, unfortunately it didn't deter the House Sparrows one bit.
That said, it has been observed that it's not as effective with younger House Sparrows. I'm going to set it up again now that it's Autumn and see what happens.
@@GeorgeCoghill Oh no! It had such great reviews, too! It seems like those house sparrows are very smart... in a bad way! Ur! I've been looking out my window at our bluebird house off and on all morning and early afternoon and haven't seen them, so I'm wondering if they gave up building a nest because the weather got suddenly colder. I will have to check it out. I might just plug the entrance up for the winter, which I hate to do because I've observed chickadees and woodpeckers taking shelter in it at dusk when it's cold. I've heard the sparrows start looking for nest sites earlier in the spring than the bluebirds so that MIGHT work. In the meantime I will try the trap to catch as many as I can. I'm particularly trying to get the male (s?) because I understand they are more attached to a nest site than they are to their mate and its hard to get them away from it once they decide its the one they want.
I have also stopped throwing seed (I only feed sunflower and nyger) on the ground, which seems to have helped in keeping them away, but doesn't help the cardinals, juncos, and all the other ground feeding native birds.
Well, good luck... I hope it works better for you this go-around.
@@SweetStuffOnMonarchLane good news: I put up my standard bird feeder today, House Sparrows swarmed it. Put up the Magic Halo with the feeder, they seem to be avoiding it now.
My thought was that I needed to wait until they matured in the Autumn, as the research indicated the younger HS were not deterred by the Halo, only older birds.
So far, so good. Feeder was literally swarmed with HS before I added the Halo. Now, none. A few try but end up abandoning it.
I would love to know if there is a way to feed red-winged blackbirds while denying starlings food. Any suggestions?
There really isn't, the red-winged blackbirds will eat mealworms and black oil sunflower seed and so will the grackles.
What a great video! Well done
I live in MA and switched from black sunflower seed to safflower seed and the sparrows come in bunches all day long and empty large hanging seeder in two days. That's not to say I Cardinals, woodpeckers, goldfinch, purple martin, chickadees, tufted titmouse & many other birds feed at my feeders, but it's always a battle for other birds to force the sparrows out of the feeder. The only thing that they won't eat is suet.
Richard Carlton Hi there, glad you don’t have sparrows eating your suet, they eat mine. Total pests
I just ordered one of these as recommended by another commenter:
www.sparrowtraps.net/
We had house sparrows show up on our property for the first time this year and I'm planning on taking them out before they get any worse! They harassed our nesting bluebirds relentlessly until we put up a homemade sparrow spooker. The biggest way to help our native songbirds is to permanently get rid of these a-holes!
Thank you, great info. Wonderful to have it online!
It’s become a war here. My neighbors feed the box store seed and now we have 30-50 House Sparrows that mob and run off every other species of bird. I’ve been throwing out pounds of shelled peanuts hoping to attract some large birds to break up the army of Sparrows.
I tried various forms of the Woodpecker suets and the Sparrows devour it all in 1 day.
Thanks!!!! From Chile.
You sound just a little like people who considered the domestic cat an invasive species be controlled. Yes, they're not natural to the USA but for God's sakes they've been around so long that ship is sailed. I do like the idea of using Saffire seed to attract different species of birds. But can't we just all learn to get along?
Sparrows and finches seem to come in groups of three to my feeder and are quite aggressive to all the other birds. It looked like one of them injured a nuthatch too. I hope I can discourage them from dominating my feeder. All the other birds come solo, but the sparrows and finches are always with two other birds.
the Common Grackle is considered an agricultural pest species in North America, since huge wintering flocks can cause millions of dollars in damage to corn, rice, sunflower, and other crops. Lethal control measures are often used to stop the damage and may be contributing to Common Grackle declines.
Sparrows eat EVERYTHING, I had them wiping out the grape jelly in my Oriole feeder, NOTHING stops a sparrow.
We have a terrible time with Grackles and Starlings during the spring time right up until toward the end of June. After farmers plant their fields most of them go bother them for a while.
Safflower seeds are not touched by birds here. We have bought various bird seed mixes that have Safflower seeds in them but the birds do not touch the Safflower. It always sat in the feeder untouched. We now buy a mix that has chopped nuts of various types and sunflower seeds. It is popular with everyone. We have a caged cylinder feeder that we put strictly sunflower hearts in and the finches, Titmice, Chickadees go for that. Sadly the Grosbeaks can’t fit in there. I see them trying but they are just too chubby.
Thankfully we don’t have many sparrows. One summer we had terrible problems with sparrows that would fly at the other birds with their claws. The Sparrows were nasty birds. They made a terrible mess out there besides the fighting. It may be that their regular food source was not available that year because we have not had them since then.
The Grackles and Starlings are bad enough.
Very well done. Concise and well paced. Keep this going
Ive had quite a bit of luck eliminating house sparrows from my yard. I have three feeders, one with nyger, one with sunflower, and one with just peanuts. I also have a suet feeder. The sparrows and starlings are rarely if ever on these feeders but the starlings like the suet which is anoying. Stay away from millet and cracked corn. Sparrows love that stuff.
I have the caged suet feeder. Indeed the small birds do access it, but do not presume it deters Starlings. The long needle like beaks they have easily reach the suet. Don’t wast your money on that suet feeder if you want to totally stop Starlings from dining on it.
This is late March, and my zip code is 47803, Terre Haute, Indiana.
Introduced = Invasive. I have no problem with House Sparrows. They don't drive off song birds. Grackles and Starlings do.
Most birds do not eat Safflower. Our birds eat everything Safflower. It is sold as the Cardinal’s favorite. Not! I think whoever grows Safflower and the industry has put that lie out to sell the stuff.
I have experienced red wing tip black birds that absolutely gobble up all my seeds and they are bullies. I still love them but what can I do?
Just started watching hopefully something I can learn to keep starlings away they make nests in tractors whichs start fires
This is a great video
Your graphic on hole size is very educational, where can I get a PDF of it?
You are so interesting 👍
I bought the round cage with the suet feeder in the middle and the Starlings reach right in and grab the suet through the 1.5" openings. I tried cutting the suet cakes in half and centering them in the suet cages bc the outside edges are closer to the outside of the cage but they just try harder and stick their necks in further. I dont know why the company didnt make the outside cage larger. Its infuriating when you spend money on something and a simple size adjustment would've made the product work but to save a buck they "cheeped" out and now it doesn't work at all. Back to the drawing board. Now I am think of trying to find a bigger cage and putting the cage inside of a cage. But I can't even find a larger cage. Half the day spent looking. I see videos of people unpacking a cage that looks bigger for the dinner bell feeder but I can't find that cage anywhere. If anyone knows of a cage with 1.5" openings and is about 15" across and 10 or so inches deep, please let me know. Right now it's Starlings: 3, Me: zero.
crazy world, here in the Netherlands/Western Europe house sparrow and starlings are becoming more and more rare, due to decline of their habitat. No more places to nest and no more insects to eat. So maybe you should enjoy them a bit more while you still can. But maybe they are a problem to the native birds on youre side of the pond?
Really enjoyed. Learned a lot.
I am not a fan of grackles or starlings attacking the suet feeders. But I wouldn’t encourage to destroy their nest…