🔴 Will Leica make another CCD camera? (Leica M9 vs Hasselblad H3D-39)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Photographers love the CCD sensor Leica M9. Will they make another? What's the best alternative?
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I'd love to see a Leica with a full frame Foveon sensor.
Nice!
Unbelievable, I had the same conversation about a M9 and a Phase One p45 back today 😂
BTW bought a Q3 43 today. 🎉
No way! Congrats on your new Q3 43 too!
I bought an M9 when first introduced. I was pretty exciting to have a full frame digital M-series camera in 2009. It was somewhat old tech even then; screen, the original rangefinder with natural light frame lines, a buffer that filled after 6-8 exposures (and wait), shutter was slower and loud (the advance was like a clockwork sound loud)… The CCD sensor is more complicated to make compared to the CMOS, and no live-view, so Leica and everyone else moved to the ‘better’ / newer / cheaper to make tech when it became available. When the original monochrom CCD was introduced I thought of it as my ‘ideal’ digital Leica - wow! - a continuous roll of B&W and somewhat back to my early years of photography. It was even more expensive than the M9!, but a few years later I found a used one at a really good price and the M9 (for expense) had to go even though I loved the Kodachrome-like files, B&W conversions were beautiful, and the black paint was starting to look ‘hand-made ;-)’ My monochrom CCD had the up-dated custom Belgium made sensor fitted at Leica with an overhaul and 1-year guarantee, free service, and basically new camera again. It is still slow to process/read to the SD card with exposures, the advance has an endearing quality to the sound (people that hear it get a smile with the now vintage machanical sonics), But for what ever reason this camera kind of grows on you. It is now what I call the ‘monochrom classic.’ The files punch above the 18mp count about ⅓ more than a color sensor, and no anti-alias filter with ultra thin cover glass (2-pixels taking in the same light of the color sensor 3-pixels area) so plenty enough resolution - hay, the 50 Summicron APO was design for this camera. The RAW/DNG files are ‘flat’ straight out of camera, but have tremendous latitude for editing, expose for the bright and the blacks and grays can be adjusted. Really good camera with vintage glass and I feel a unique look.
Thanks for the info, yes my buddy Tobi (guy shooting his M9-P loves these cameras with older glass to get the best results).
Yes for the "unique look" but it does not mean that it has not got the limitations that comes with it. In my opinion (and experience) the M10 generation including the Monochrome version are better all around cameras. [as for the colors/rendering it can easily come down to a matter of processing and presets]
The magic of those CCDs is that they were manufcatured by Kodak. Not every CCD sensor produces colour like those out of the camera. I once read that Kodak profiled their early CCDs to mimick their famous transparency films. Whether this is true or not I couldn't tell you, but it looks that we are still striving to reproduce the colour of our beloved Kodachrome and Ektachrome through digital reprroduction.
I read the same thing about the Kodachrome connection.
That makes some sense. In theory any digital sensor should be able to dive good colours with the right processing and interpolation. So it makes sense that it was the Kodak processing rather than the circuitry that gave CCDs their look.
Thanks yes the colours are certainly more slide film like (punchy!)
I loved my CCD Leica M9 and M9/Monochrom, but never bonded with the CMOS cameras that came after, even though I do still have an M10 (which doesn’t get used much). It’s all enough to drive you back to using film for an exciting and expressive medium for photography (which it did and with no complaints).
Yes it took me ages to love CMOS when I ‘upgraded’
I'm just waiting to see how you're going to fit this one for your overseas trips + all the lighting gear :)
Haha, the light mod had arrived, trigger soon. I might be going back to 2 bags for a bit but looking forward to the challenge!
That Hasselblad is making me feel full of envy. I will love one with the film back.
Cheaper than the cheapest Leica M too, I was amazed
Don't forget the M8!
I had that too!
Haha as I M9 user I almost died at the LCD comparison! Sometimes it's faster and more accurate to sketch the picture on a piece of paper! 😀
Haha and not have that red light flash at you! :)
I’ve owned an m9p and still own an m8 alongside newer Leica cameras. I loved the m9 but it was just too damn slow on the buffer. Drove me nuts waiting for it to clear, otherwise, the output at low iso was lovely. If it could be re-introduced into Leica’s classic line of products, I think it would make a fair few people out there very happy!
Thanks, yes knowing what I now do I don't recommend the M9 to most people despite the upsides. The corrosion issue (and buffering for anyone that wants to shoot faster). The dreaded red flashing light haha.
First, and I know nothing of model shooting, but I am always impressed in how you relate to your models. It is as professional co-equals and we see you often showing the capture to them. Kindness, courtesy and motivation. Way cool.
I think we disagree on the desirability of Kodachrome. I like it but prefer the Agfachrome more muted look. So while I like my M9, Leica sensor upgrade, I am also very happy with the M240. And you know I am a fool for the X2D. For me it just does everything right. And it has that AF, IBIS and super nice XCD 55V.
That said, all you covered in this video is spot on, as always. Ye knows yer onions, lad. Thanks for taking the time to inform us and best of luck for the weekend, working or idle.
Thanks Sandy! Yes the M240 is more muted for sure. I can’t even remember was idle means honestly :)
I am keeping my M240 just for that too: its unique colour rendering straight out of the camera (away from the "Velvia /Kodachrome look" (that was a pain for most portraits anyway), definitely. It is just a matter of what one is looking for.
When I decided to go after a CCD camera I thought about the Hasselblad H3d at the time but those cons are rough. I already owned cameras from that era so I knew about the max usable ISO and the sheer size of it was another turn off. Cost of entry due to not owning any lenses was another problem. Got a original sensor Leica m9 instead and love it literally throw it as an extra camera in my bag on every trip.
Yes now the price is great but before they were pricey for sure.
Hi Matt! Nice review as always!
I'd love to try an M9 one day but for now my budget restraints mean I'm "stuck" with my M8 paired with an LTM canon 50mm. Partially regret selling my M10-P since it's more modern but for my uses there's no functional difference except that annoying crop factor.
The M8 is cool too. Great for B&W for me.
The M9-P is still king because of the additional high quality Leica lenses and its superior portability. A tiny Hasselblad with better image quality.
Yes more practical for sure
The M8 is louder than the M9 but I don't mind great shutter sounds.
Yes the sound of both are nice!
Personally I think the M8 has better colors than the M9. But I prefer the M9 for being full frame.
Thanks, yes I used to use both. M8 B&W was amazing too.
I’ll be keeping my M9-P for as long as I can haha
Haha I bet! Nice!
Btw, if you like ccd, why not a Leica S2 or S06? They are getting cheap as well today
Great shout, sadly still way more than these Hassys
They are shockingly good, but most have corrosion over the sensor.
@Biosynchro they had the same issues as the M9 sensors and were repaired by Leica for free. I have mine since the beginning and no issue since the sensor was changed
Matt. I'm looking forward to your review of the new Q3.
Yes a student in the US might be lending me one soon. Stay tuned!
I still have my original first M Monochrom a la Carte under 2200 shots . Peoples call it Leica M9 Monochrom.
Very nice!
Matt
I get that the CCD sensor has great colours but you always shoot in b+w???
The rendering is said to be different too. My M8 and M9 were fantastic for B&W.
The Sony sensor in my Nikon D40X is wonderful
I know some old Nikon have the CCD colours / sensor
Those Hasselblads are getting stupid cheap recently... seen several ones selling for about 900 quid. Shame it doesn't have a focal plane shutter, I'd buy that in a heartbeat... unfortunately if you want to adapt exotic lenses you'll need to pay double for a Mamiya/Phase One with a lower resolution sensor (still chunkier than the modern 44x33mm ones and still CCD).
Yes and yes. That’s why I bought mine but yes that’s why my mate Tobi uses the P1 so he can use more lenses.
12. Lens IQ. I've compared standard HC80mm on my H3-39 to high end 50mm APO on my M10. Almost equal results 😮
Interesting! We know Leica lenses are great but it’s cool you tested them.
Does Kodak even make CCD sensors or liscens another co. to make them anymore?
Lots of u tube posts debating the advantages of CCD vs CMOS. Some love them and others don't, and some neutral. Eye of the beholder sort of thing I guess.
CCD sensors are still put into some camera bodies used for scientific/astronomical purposes.
@@christophertan3707 That's great to know.They must have some very special qualities that lend them to scientific uses.
No I don’t think they’ve been made for a while for cameras anyway.
There is a big reviewer fuss over the Q3 43. Are you going to take one out for a walk?
I don't understand that stat the hasselblad for 0.7 frames a sec .. is that including winding on to the next frame ? because if not all cameras unless you a shooting a long exposure of a second or more will give you 1 exposure per second !
😊
Thanks!
No. It’s redundant technology and the few tiny advantages of it are easily outweighed by the disadvantages. I’ve been using ccds since the early to mid 80’s. If you can pull off information fast enough a ccd is significantly better suited to image capture.
Thanks, another video to come with comparisons
You’re gonna laugh but since picking up a grip my M9 photos have gotten sharper. #M9Recoil
Ha no way! Nice Greg!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom , I've noticed that when I get below 1/60 the grip def makes a difference. :-)
At the risk of antagonizing every Leica and Hasselblad users and lovers (am one of them myself), photographs results using Sony alpha full frame with Sony GM, Zeiss Batis lines (for AF) or Zeiss classic zf.2 manual focus lenses MIGHT be on par with using Hassy/Leica. Plus, Sony's low light capability and high resolutions. Although the images rendering and mechanical feelings are different. Peace Matt :)
Thanks for sharing!
Is the Hasselblad really that cheap???
Who's going to repair it when it is broke 😮
Yes I paid even less than the prices shown. Silly cheap
reliability would be a good tie breaker :)
Ha yes, it seems to depend who you ask on that one 😅
Leica S2 and S006 have beautiful ccd sensors, unfortunately they corrode. Leica will fix them at a hefty price. The lenses also have broken motors, Leica will also fix these cheap but parts are starting to be an issue. A $25,000-30,000 camera can be bought for $2000-3000. Prolly the same in pounds.
Thanks, interesting, you never hear much about these cameras though I have used from students in the past. I didn't know they also suffered from corrosion.
What I remember about CCD cameras, the sensor were dust magnets. At least in the case of my Nikon D100 and D200 they were.
Mine seems ok but I’m sure it varies
BSI-CMOS sensors are superior to CCD sensors, so I do not think they will !
CCD color sounds like Leica color myth. Do a blind test and I bet it won't be 100% accurate pick.
I think with editing you can fake it but it’s nice to have the real deal
Thats the point. For example that’s why people still shoot film I think. They get the real deal. You can fake it, very well even, but still- just a fake. Beside- people are changing film stock to get different results. Why not change the digital cameras and appreciate what different sensors have to offer? Cheers 👋
@@damianburczyk8345 The point is there's no special CCD color, nothing to fake. Describing something as magic or secret sauce is just nostalgia messing with your head. It's really Adobe colors since he's using Lightroom.
@Rocky_KO not true I have m10-r and m9 colour is different and hard to replicate.
@@YinZheOperaLee I'm not seeing unique look in this video that warrants getting a CCD camera. If you think you can make a better video than go ahead.
Jeez that thumbnail…ooof.
Hassy pic!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom amazing pic.
No, ccd is dead Matt
I hope not, ccd performs better than cmos. I like my M9 much more than my M10R, specially in daylight.
@@blende5.693hold on to ccds, a sensor is basically film, and ccd sensors are way better in terms of image quality
@@blende5.693 I've toyed with buying a M9, but that sensor corroding problem scares me away....
Not, only in consumer products but in Medical device still the best
@@chilecayenne yes, the corrosion is definitely a problem, I bought my camera 2010 new and changed the sensor 2016 for free. I never had any more sensor problems. I would not have any problems to buy a used M9 in 2024. my M9 is for sale 😉