I would love to play this game against someone who thinks they can ignore exploring. Exploring provides access to reputation and a decent (if random) chance at goods, money, and even free characters. The caverns gained by exploring provide access to outpost buildings which feature different (and often much cheaper) goods than are found on the above-ground cards. This also makes more of the "star" bonus buildings viable. What are the advantages of a no-exploring strategy? Everyone is still competing with you for builder and recruiting characters, and buildings, because those go off the board first. What about when the cheapest characters to recruit are explore-only? What about the chance that you gain a few gold from exploring, which suddenly allows your remaining builder or recruit characters to take a buy action?
+Keith McNeil I came in second by only buying cards focused on one good, and making them worth 3 each . i did not adventure once (i lost by three points). you have to get the right cards (AKA get lucky) in order to not adventure. its almost impossible to win without doing it.
The storytelling part is really similar to the encounter cards in Eldritch Horror: a bit of story with a challenge that is solved by rolling dice. Except that it comes in the form of a booklet.
The trick is that some goods are ONLY available in adventures, so if you want the far end of the goods line with the high points, you need to be more diverse in what you do.
So, I played this with the creators at Gencon, and I had fun, but what Tom said about ignoring the exploring to win is a possibility, which is basically how I played it. This doesn't inherently bother me, but it does feel weird that you can basically ignore the selling point of the game and still win. I'll still pick it up, though, because I found it fun.
I was looking forward to see what you would think about this one, Tom. Nice review as always. I saw a few other reviews, and everyone has their own opinions. It was very interesting to compare all of them. I'm looking forward to adding this one to my collection.
Really irks me that this is being marketed as a "story-telling" game. To me, a story-telling game is either a collaborative effort by players to use the game to facilitate stories or involves sort of role-playing (i.e., non-optimal plays). The "story-telling" in this game is just reading a card and selecting from a choice of options. It's the same concept of Arkham/Eldritch Horrors encounter cards. It's a manifestation of the game's theme, which is not a bad thing. But it's not an implementation of the story-telling mechanism. Tales of Arabian Nights, Once Upon a Time, Winter Tales, and Above and Below. ♫ "One of these things is not like the other..." ♫
Storytelling is encouraged because the Above and Below storybook rarely gives you anything beyond "take one mushroom, one ore and two reputation." My group always tries to come up with a little story in the resolution of why we got what we got.
Once Upon a Time is more of a story-interrupting game, where the goal is to stop telling the story. :) Even Rory's StoryCubes is more of a pure storytelling game/activity. If you want role-playing, play a role-playing game. By your definition, writing or reading aloud a novel is not story-telling.
Anyone else just cringe when they pour out the games contents like that? I will weep openly if one of my game boxes gets so much as a crease! I love Tom and his videos...but I find the opening pour of materials so hard to get through...Please Tom...STAHP
Paul Hagelstein It's a review video. They are showing us that the components are of decent quality. It's no differeny than phone reviews where they do bend tests.
I've played two games of this now, and I think I'm pretty much done with it. It's certainly a beauty of a game, but it feels too light for my tastes. The story telling is flawed in the sense that there's very seldom a beginning, middle, and end to the story bits. Instead of any resolution in the form of story text, the book just blandly states what you have obtained. My group eventually began improvising to flesh out the story, which made for some fun. Unfortunately the strategy euro parts of the game seem a bit too simple -- it's absolutely a gateway level game. Anoth complaint worth voicing is that both the three-player game, and the four-player game, took too long. I believe with four players, some of whom were long with taking their turns, lasted 3 hours. The game should be 90 minutes. Ultimately, Above and Below is a very attractive game, but I can't help but think the game compromises itself by trying to be strategic AND story-centered. The game might be just right for introducing people to euro games, and it could work well with slightly older children, but it feels a little half-baked to me.
+Sam Wood if this is an entry level game ( I am not trying to challenge you on that) then what would be the next step for someone to get that expands on the ideas here? is there a game that does that? I would love a game that has good theme or story elements with the exploration, building, recruiting, and worker... I guess assignment/placement like this game. do I have to wait for other creators to steal this idea and iterate on it, or are there other games out there like this?
+silentdante otagi I would say Dead of Winter would be a good next choice. It's a bit heavier mechanically and still retains a story element (Xroads cards - which is the best game idea I've ever seen).
Find it contradictory that someone would think the strategy of a game was too simple and then have people taking overly long turns. Something seems off about that
The 'story telling' in this game is mostly pasted on flavor text. This doesn't bother me at all because it tastes good and doesn't ruin the Euro game feel of the rest of the game. Exploring adds some luck into the game, but it can be managed and planned for. The paragraphs usually give you a hint about what you can expect the rewards to be. I haven't played Arabian Nights, but from what I've heard I would consider it an activity and not a game.
Judging from Tom's video, and story book aside, the game feels a little bit like Caverna. I'm not saying these are the same game but they do seem to work similarly. Already owning Caverna and being very happy with it, I think I'm going to pass on this one.
+Nolo Atmo I would not even put this close to being like Caverna. I own both Caverna and this game and would not get rid of one bc I had the other. They do not play/feel the same to me at all.
Tom, I mean this as constructive criticism. You are not very good at explaining these games on video. It seems like you know the games very well, but you don't explain how the games work or the flow of the game very well at all. I think you really need to sit down and maybe create a flow chart or outline of first, second, third. You aren't the only one on this channel who isn't good at explaining games. Zee is probably the best, but all three of you really need to consider either scripting the game run-through, or at least working off an outline to provide a better way of explaining the flow of the game effectively to the audience.
DarthSironos As much as I love DT, I do this this time period was the beginning of becoming overwhelmed by the amount of reviews. Love the channel, but a little constructive criticism never hurts-I definitely think based on the amount the reviews they’ve more recently amalgamated a structure, but I do believe that creating a basic outline or flash cards with key-words can be very beneficial when describing the game while he points out components. I’m also a big fan of a pro-con list that can be superimposed in post. My favorite is when he uses his vast knowledge of BGs to compares it or mechanics to less obvious games-albeit that feels hard to do here.
you want a play-by-play... go to Rodney's channel. Dice Tower is just an overview. The only problem here is your expectations, not the video. Tom: great video!
I would love to play this game against someone who thinks they can ignore exploring. Exploring provides access to reputation and a decent (if random) chance at goods, money, and even free characters. The caverns gained by exploring provide access to outpost buildings which feature different (and often much cheaper) goods than are found on the above-ground cards. This also makes more of the "star" bonus buildings viable. What are the advantages of a no-exploring strategy? Everyone is still competing with you for builder and recruiting characters, and buildings, because those go off the board first. What about when the cheapest characters to recruit are explore-only? What about the chance that you gain a few gold from exploring, which suddenly allows your remaining builder or recruit characters to take a buy action?
+Keith McNeil I came in second by only buying cards focused on one good, and making them worth 3 each . i did not adventure once (i lost by three points). you have to get the right cards (AKA get lucky) in order to not adventure. its almost impossible to win without doing it.
When you dump out the contents of the box in slow motion, do you make Zee pick it all up afterwords?
Video is not listed on BGG.
Was surprised!
Yeah. But how do you get the car keys?!
+David Dugas You have to get a reputation of 5 or higher and murder a beggar in cold blood.
The storytelling part is really similar to the encounter cards in Eldritch Horror: a bit of story with a challenge that is solved by rolling dice. Except that it comes in the form of a booklet.
The trick is that some goods are ONLY available in adventures, so if you want the far end of the goods line with the high points, you need to be more diverse in what you do.
So, I played this with the creators at Gencon, and I had fun, but what Tom said about ignoring the exploring to win is a possibility, which is basically how I played it. This doesn't inherently bother me, but it does feel weird that you can basically ignore the selling point of the game and still win. I'll still pick it up, though, because I found it fun.
I was looking forward to see what you would think about this one, Tom. Nice review as always. I saw a few other reviews, and everyone has their own opinions. It was very interesting to compare all of them. I'm looking forward to adding this one to my collection.
Feels a little like Stone Age. Haven't played it let, but ordered it today. Excited!
Bought this at pax East 2019, about to finally play it for the first time next weekend
Does anyone know what mic he's using in this video? Trying to find a decent wireless clip-on mic that I can use when streaming...
Really irks me that this is being marketed as a "story-telling" game. To me, a story-telling game is either a collaborative effort by players to use the game to facilitate stories or involves sort of role-playing (i.e., non-optimal plays).
The "story-telling" in this game is just reading a card and selecting from a choice of options. It's the same concept of Arkham/Eldritch Horrors encounter cards. It's a manifestation of the game's theme, which is not a bad thing. But it's not an implementation of the story-telling mechanism.
Tales of Arabian Nights, Once Upon a Time, Winter Tales, and Above and Below. ♫ "One of these things is not like the other..." ♫
Storytelling is encouraged because the Above and Below storybook rarely gives you anything beyond "take one mushroom, one ore and two reputation." My group always tries to come up with a little story in the resolution of why we got what we got.
Once Upon a Time is more of a story-interrupting game, where the goal is to stop telling the story. :) Even Rory's StoryCubes is more of a pure storytelling game/activity.
If you want role-playing, play a role-playing game. By your definition, writing or reading aloud a novel is not story-telling.
Anyone else just cringe when they pour out the games contents like that? I will weep openly if one of my game boxes gets so much as a crease! I love Tom and his videos...but I find the opening pour of materials so hard to get through...Please Tom...STAHP
Paul Hagelstein It's a review video. They are showing us that the components are of decent quality. It's no differeny than phone reviews where they do bend tests.
ughhh it makes me cry inside and outside lol
I've played two games of this now, and I think I'm pretty much done with it. It's certainly a beauty of a game, but it feels too light for my tastes. The story telling is flawed in the sense that there's very seldom a beginning, middle, and end to the story bits. Instead of any resolution in the form of story text, the book just blandly states what you have obtained. My group eventually began improvising to flesh out the story, which made for some fun.
Unfortunately the strategy euro parts of the game seem a bit too simple -- it's absolutely a gateway level game. Anoth complaint worth voicing is that both the three-player game, and the four-player game, took too long. I believe with four players, some of whom were long with taking their turns, lasted 3 hours. The game should be 90 minutes.
Ultimately, Above and Below is a very attractive game, but I can't help but think the game compromises itself by trying to be strategic AND story-centered. The game might be just right for introducing people to euro games, and it could work well with slightly older children, but it feels a little half-baked to me.
+Sam Wood if this is an entry level game ( I am not trying to challenge you on that) then what would be the next step for someone to get that expands on the ideas here? is there a game that does that? I would love a game that has good theme or story elements with the exploration, building, recruiting, and worker... I guess assignment/placement like this game. do I have to wait for other creators to steal this idea and iterate on it, or are there other games out there like this?
+silentdante otagi I would say Dead of Winter would be a good next choice. It's a bit heavier mechanically and still retains a story element (Xroads cards - which is the best game idea I've ever seen).
Tennethums1 but zombies. I'm so tired of zombies
Find it contradictory that someone would think the strategy of a game was too simple and then have people taking overly long turns. Something seems off about that
The 'story telling' in this game is mostly pasted on flavor text. This doesn't bother me at all because it tastes good and doesn't ruin the Euro game feel of the rest of the game. Exploring adds some luck into the game, but it can be managed and planned for. The paragraphs usually give you a hint about what you can expect the rewards to be. I haven't played Arabian Nights, but from what I've heard I would consider it an activity and not a game.
It's a good, light game. I think the replayability is a little low. I think it would be a good family game - get the kids reading and acting, etc.
I've never seen Tom give a game a bad review per se.
Then you skip a lot of reviews. :)
Kingdom Builder - one of my favorites.
Judging from Tom's video, and story book aside, the game feels a little bit like Caverna. I'm not saying these are the same game but they do seem to work similarly. Already owning Caverna and being very happy with it, I think I'm going to pass on this one.
+Nolo Atmo I would not even put this close to being like Caverna. I own both Caverna and this game and would not get rid of one bc I had the other. They do not play/feel the same to me at all.
"Symbology"
+TheGreatHamEl Symbolism x)
Semiotics
The game that tried to be everything...
yes, same problem with me
you can play this as a Euro and win
it's pointless to play this as Exploring since
you'll take chances at Exploration
Tom, I mean this as constructive criticism. You are not very good at explaining these games on video. It seems like you know the games very well, but you don't explain how the games work or the flow of the game very well at all. I think you really need to sit down and maybe create a flow chart or outline of first, second, third. You aren't the only one on this channel who isn't good at explaining games. Zee is probably the best, but all three of you really need to consider either scripting the game run-through, or at least working off an outline to provide a better way of explaining the flow of the game effectively to the audience.
My apologies. I'm not trying to explain every aspect of the game, just give a quick rundown.
The Dice Tower The day that a flow chart comes out is the day I stop watching. I liked this review.
Agreed, a flowchart to decribe a boardgame, man, I would stop watching too.
DarthSironos As much as I love DT, I do this this time period was the beginning of becoming overwhelmed by the amount of reviews. Love the channel, but a little constructive criticism never hurts-I definitely think based on the amount the reviews they’ve more recently amalgamated a structure, but I do believe that creating a basic outline or flash cards with key-words can be very beneficial when describing the game while he points out components.
I’m also a big fan of a pro-con list that can be superimposed in post.
My favorite is when he uses his vast knowledge of BGs to compares it or mechanics to less obvious games-albeit that feels hard to do here.
you want a play-by-play... go to Rodney's channel. Dice Tower is just an overview. The only problem here is your expectations, not the video. Tom: great video!
his explanation gets nowhere
Awful review Tom. One of your worst!,,,,