It seems the biggest difference between various on demand AWD systems seems to be the software controlling them. Which seems to change not only with each manufacturer but also on each model and generation.
The performance of the AWD system is practically the same, the newer X60 performs probably slightly "softer" than the previous model. I think the most differences are in the SW of the ESP module and not the Haldex, which possibly got only minor improvements.
Still need to clean the internal mesh otherwise high risk of failure. All things equal, it is almost certainly going to fail earlier if not cleaned vs cleaned
Mam powody do świętowania 👍 Obie generacje poradziły sobie bardzo dobrze jednak gen5 trochę lepiej. Dzięki za porównanie i idę po kolejnego szampana😂 Pozdro dla Ciebie i innych użytkowników XC60
The software can do magic. Search this channel and see that Gen 5 as implemented on different Volvos behaved differently. The V60 CC (gen 1) was just better. And the V60 CC recent gen. id really excellent (that one I seen somewhere else). On the other hand the eAWD from Volvo, installed on most expensive T8 versions, plug-in hybrid, is a week system.
Great job, thank you for this video! I saw no difference between the two gen.... but I understood that I must turn off ESP in case I'm stuck somewhere, lolololol
Volvo cars have "spin control" toggle, the DSTC system cannot be disabled in any P3 car. But you can allow the car to disable the low-speed traction control and prevent the throttle from cutting out wheel the wheels are slipping.
@@connorPiper0 You can disable DSTC (ESP) but traction control (brake intervention on slipping wheels) remains active, only engine torque ain't cut like with DSTC on.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers In Volvo's own words, "The spin control function is designed to help prevent the drive wheels from spinning while the vehicle is accelerating" "[Traction Control] is designed to help reduce wheel spin by transferring power from a drive wheel that begins to lose traction to the wheel on the opposite side of the vehicle. This is one of DSTC's permanent functions and cannot be switched off" So what most automakers call traction control, Volvo calls it spin control. Traction control is a function of the AWD system. The high speed traction control is called AYC. You absolutely cannot disable DSTC in any P3 Volvo car without the help of VIDA DiCE and even then it's not easy. The gauge cluster even makes sure to tell you DSTC is on still. I own several P3 cars currently.
@@connorPiper0 The definition of Traction Control which you quoted is actually the most popular. Spin Control used to be called ASR by many manufacturers. When it comes to DSTC - screen in the car says it is off. For sure it is not entirely off, just backed up a little, that's standard behaviour in many cars nowadays. DSTC includes SC, TC and AYC. The last one in Volvo is actually a ESP system (braking wheels to correct lateral slides).
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers At least in the NA market traction control and stability control were separate options on many vehicles, stability control would prevent over-correction leading to rollover which was a popular option on many SUVs and trucks. Basically there are two ways to control the vehicle, with brakes or throttle. Spin control is throttle related, and the only system you can disable. Every other function of DSTC uses the brakes, and cannot be disabled. Volvo calls most of these systems part of traction control, same with Toyota and A-Trac. German automakers might call all this ESP. To correct understeer the Volvo system and a majority of American cars use the throttle, or the traction control system. While to correct oversteer they would use the brakes, or the stability control/ABS system.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers ...Can you think of any small advantage / disadvantage in any specific scenario in which the partial locking at off throttle would make a difference ? Nothing?
@@Vamanos46 It is all about response time. I don't know the numbers but imagine that during start computer sends request for 60/40 split. Haldex 4 needs for example 300 miliseconds to switch from open to 60/40, Haldex 5 needs for example 100 miliseconds to switch from open to 60/40. However, if you keep initial (off throttle) split on for example 80/20 level then Haldex 4 may also reach 60/40 in 100 miliseconds.
@@trainslife5638 This D4 is a detuned version of the d5. Same engine, different software. The fwd D4 is a 4 cylinder of the new generation called VEA. But awd diesel have remained with the previous generation 5 cylinder until model year 2017 (included).
Honestly I feel the reason why they made it off the three rollers wasn't because the rear wheel got enough torque but because the front wheels went forward just enough to catch the front lip of the roller and launched it off. What do you think it felt like when you were driving these cars and what does it look like in the video to you?
If front wheels went forward - it means that car was moving forward. Furthermore - wheel can touch front lip of the roller only when car is already going down. Up to that point car must climb up only on rolling cylinders (to be precise - on one cylinder per wheel).
Thank you for the great chanel! I was wondering if it would be possible to see how a Skoda Kodiaq fares against the rivals like Kia Sorento, Huynday Santa Fe, Nissan Xtrail?
Have you had the chance to do a test of the Saab 93 xwd? It's got the same Haldex 4 system but with an eLSD on the rear and I was wondering if that fixes the problem that these Volvos have with the one rear wheel refusing to recieve power.
I didn´t see actually no any difference? Is there? Maybe in snow in real condicions? What about if there is a software "offroad" option as nowadays in many Volvo AWD systems?
@@RealAutoReviews It won't be better cause it doesn't have the ability to lock the axles together. Haldex can do it but only temporarily so in long offroading it would overheat but in single situation it's effective.
The filer is internal on the pump itself. It gets clogged eventually so cleaning is recommended. Only problem is, that isn't part of the official maintenance scope if done by dealers Pretty shameful really like you said, for most it will be more unreliable
Silloin kun kolme pyörää on rullilla ja takana ainoa vetävä pyörä niin haldex tarvii kaasua reippaasti niin lähtee kyllä irti. Tässä videossa kierrokset jäi liian alas joten auto ei lähtenyt liikkeelle kun vasta lopussa.
During slippage throttle is controlled by the system. Here's another Volvo, no problems at low throttle in offroad mode: th-cam.com/video/jld57N9Ramw/w-d-xo.html
Hey duszaniespokojna! I had a thought - if you can help me build rollers, I would happily send you video footage as closely modeled after yours for my cars! I have an Acura TLX SH-AWD, and Mercedes ML430, free to use if you are interested!
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Makes sense, that is too bad! If anything changes please mention in your videos and I will comment again :) Thanks for the awesome channel!
Обрати внимание, что по звуку мотора на 2014 года муфте нужно было больше газа. Так же можно сделать вывод, что если не можешь куда то забраться в гору, то надо ехать задним ходом, так на передние колеса "мощнее".
It is always funny in wintertime to launch from traffic lights like it was summer. Since Haldex is front biased, and the nose is slightly heavier I always win against four wheel drive mercs and bmws.
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
It seems the biggest difference between various on demand AWD systems seems to be the software controlling them. Which seems to change not only with each manufacturer but also on each model and generation.
Awesome AWD system and very underrated ! It is used by Volvo,Volkswagen,Skoda,Seat and some Audi.
Ford, Opel, Land Rover, Saab, Buick, Cadillac, Lamborghini, Bugatti.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I know V.A.G uses it but I had no idea that Ford,Opel,Cadillac,Buick did as well. Thanks for the info
@@jpch8814 Ford/Lincoln use the Volvo P3 platform branded as CD4. GM owned Saab, and many GM products are based on Saab models.
Land Rover also uses haldex? Which land Rover models?
@@andretrujillo Discovery Sport, Freelander, Evoque, Velar.
The performance of the AWD system is practically the same, the newer X60 performs probably slightly "softer" than the previous model. I think the most differences are in the SW of the ESP module and not the Haldex, which possibly got only minor improvements.
Fajny test, pozdrawiam serdecznie użytkowników xc60
Few weeks ago I was searching for a comparesment video like this. Thanks a lot :-)
Very cool haldex 5 simplified the pump so there’s no longer a filter great how they got away with more hardware by improving the electronics
Still need to clean the internal mesh otherwise high risk of failure. All things equal, it is almost certainly going to fail earlier if not cleaned vs cleaned
Mam powody do świętowania 👍
Obie generacje poradziły sobie bardzo dobrze jednak gen5 trochę lepiej.
Dzięki za porównanie i idę po kolejnego szampana😂
Pozdro dla Ciebie i innych użytkowników XC60
Pozdrawiam!
No big difference. Actually I don't see any.
Final result is the same. The only difference I see is that gen 5 is more open in off-throttle position.
According to Haldex version 5 is lighter and easier to integrate.
@@saiiiiiii1 Means cheaper and less reliable, also has no filter there...
@@RTI_MD it requiers that you change the oil more often. Then there is no difference in reliability
Fajne testy robicie. Oby więcej
Dzięki, zapraszamy wszystkich chętnych!
The software can do magic. Search this channel and see that Gen 5 as implemented on different Volvos behaved differently. The V60 CC (gen 1) was just better. And the V60 CC recent gen. id really excellent (that one I seen somewhere else).
On the other hand the eAWD from Volvo, installed on most expensive T8 versions, plug-in hybrid, is a week system.
Great job, thank you for this video!
I saw no difference between the two gen.... but I understood that I must turn off ESP in case I'm stuck somewhere, lolololol
Gen 4th seems to engaded right from the start, gen 5th seems to be engaged on-throttle.
Great work this video with awd haldex system, I have 4 also on xc60 , I want to test it sometime with esp off
Pretty interesting that it works better with ESP off while other AWD systems work better with ESP on.
Volvo cars have "spin control" toggle, the DSTC system cannot be disabled in any P3 car. But you can allow the car to disable the low-speed traction control and prevent the throttle from cutting out wheel the wheels are slipping.
@@connorPiper0 You can disable DSTC (ESP) but traction control (brake intervention on slipping wheels) remains active, only engine torque ain't cut like with DSTC on.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers
In Volvo's own words, "The spin control function is designed to help prevent the drive wheels from spinning while the vehicle is accelerating"
"[Traction Control] is designed to help reduce wheel spin by transferring power from a drive wheel that begins to lose traction to the wheel on the opposite side of the vehicle. This is one of DSTC's permanent functions and cannot be switched off"
So what most automakers call traction control, Volvo calls it spin control. Traction control is a function of the AWD system. The high speed traction control is called AYC.
You absolutely cannot disable DSTC in any P3 Volvo car without the help of VIDA DiCE and even then it's not easy. The gauge cluster even makes sure to tell you DSTC is on still. I own several P3 cars currently.
@@connorPiper0 The definition of Traction Control which you quoted is actually the most popular. Spin Control used to be called ASR by many manufacturers.
When it comes to DSTC - screen in the car says it is off. For sure it is not entirely off, just backed up a little, that's standard behaviour in many cars nowadays. DSTC includes SC, TC and AYC. The last one in Volvo is actually a ESP system (braking wheels to correct lateral slides).
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers At least in the NA market traction control and stability control were separate options on many vehicles, stability control would prevent over-correction leading to rollover which was a popular option on many SUVs and trucks.
Basically there are two ways to control the vehicle, with brakes or throttle. Spin control is throttle related, and the only system you can disable. Every other function of DSTC uses the brakes, and cannot be disabled. Volvo calls most of these systems part of traction control, same with Toyota and A-Trac. German automakers might call all this ESP.
To correct understeer the Volvo system and a majority of American cars use the throttle, or the traction control system. While to correct oversteer they would use the brakes, or the stability control/ABS system.
I swiped my OEM speedometer on my 2010 XC60 for newer TFT and after that I haven't option do disable DSTC. Am I fucked up on the ice and snow now?
Показатели эффективности у боих муфт одинаковые можно сказать.
Is the Haldex System the same like in VAG cars? By the way: Your Channel is really interesting!
Yes, haldex is the same. Control software is different.
Thank you!
I think H5 has little bit more spining then H4? Are we see same?
What do you think?
I see H5 is open in off-throttle position, H4 is at least partly locked.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers ...Can you think of any small advantage / disadvantage in any specific scenario in which the partial locking at off throttle would make a difference ? Nothing?
@@Vamanos46 It is all about response time. I don't know the numbers but imagine that during start computer sends request for 60/40 split. Haldex 4 needs for example 300 miliseconds to switch from open to 60/40, Haldex 5 needs for example 100 miliseconds to switch from open to 60/40. However, if you keep initial (off throttle) split on for example 80/20 level then Haldex 4 may also reach 60/40 in 100 miliseconds.
Actually the H4 is better than H5. The H5 lacks the oil filter, and as a result , oil residue gums up the oil pump.
Вольво класс.....муфти Халдекс як 4го так і 5го покоління прекрасно справляються з роботою
Nice and interesting! And hopefully both cars have the 5 cylindre!
Only the d5 has got an 5 cil ik think
@@trainslife5638
This D4 is a detuned version of the d5. Same engine, different software.
The fwd D4 is a 4 cylinder of the new generation called VEA. But awd diesel have remained with the previous generation 5 cylinder until model year 2017 (included).
Czy ktoś ogarnia różnice w sofcie pomiędzy vag a innymi producentami stosującymi haldex?
Honestly I feel the reason why they made it off the three rollers wasn't because the rear wheel got enough torque but because the front wheels went forward just enough to catch the front lip of the roller and launched it off. What do you think it felt like when you were driving these cars and what does it look like in the video to you?
If front wheels went forward - it means that car was moving forward. Furthermore - wheel can touch front lip of the roller only when car is already going down. Up to that point car must climb up only on rolling cylinders (to be precise - on one cylinder per wheel).
Is there coming a test with the BMW M135i F40 ( F1H ) ?? Cause its a FWD based Xdrive from BMW
So far no volunteers...
Thank you for the great chanel! I was wondering if it would be possible to see how a Skoda Kodiaq fares against the rivals like Kia Sorento, Huynday Santa Fe, Nissan Xtrail?
Thank you! Sorento and Santa Fe are on my channel, still waiting for volunteers with Kodiaq and X-Trail...
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I can volunteer the Kodiaq but I'm in Bulgaria. :-)
@@rado78231 Take a trip to south Poland :)
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers with pleasure! Let's wait a bit to have the COVID measures lowered and I'll be there.
Can I ask you what those wheel rollers where? It would be great when testing out my car. Thank you
Custom made. What car would you like to test?
Have you had the chance to do a test of the Saab 93 xwd? It's got the same Haldex 4 system but with an eLSD on the rear and I was wondering if that fixes the problem that these Volvos have with the one rear wheel refusing to recieve power.
No, I didn't test Saab but you can find on my channel Opel Insignia which has the same awd as Saab.
you should do a test with the Volvo T8 drivetrain
No volunteer so far...
Is there any news about haldex/BW gen 6? Gen5 getting old 😀
Nope, recently there was only a change of electric motor.
Hello, so far what are the improvements for Haldex/BW Gen 6? I saw that the Jetour traveller uses it
@@andretrujillo www.borgwarner.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/next-generation-awd-actuators.pdf
I didn´t see actually no any difference? Is there? Maybe in snow in real condicions? What about if there is a software "offroad" option as nowadays in many Volvo AWD systems?
Difficult question, we don't know what software differences are there. According to tech spec - gen 5 is more responsive.
Excellent improvement, only name changed Haldex 4 to 5. Torsen is the best!!!
Torsen ain't doing better in such cases. When it comes to improvments - that's 2700 Nm vs 3500 Nm, less weight, more precise control.
Can you explain why Torsen won't be better here (and everywhere else in an offroad scenario)? @@4x4.tests.on.rollers
@@RealAutoReviews It won't be better cause it doesn't have the ability to lock the axles together. Haldex can do it but only temporarily so in long offroading it would overheat but in single situation it's effective.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Haldex can lock axles? How???
@@RealAutoReviews If clutch pack is locked then front axle is locked with rear, both axles spin at the same speed.
5 is better. If programming settings is ok. Settings of haldex 5 of new Volvo- is not ok. Haldex 5 CAN drive with one rear wheel on the ground.
It is not the matter of haldex itself but traction control on the rear axle.
what is the 2019 suzuki vitara coupling?
Electromagnetic.
Same functionality.
Ten test to raczej westia przychamowania kola przez abs niz haldex.Naped jest swietnie przenoszony przez oba systemy
Zgadza się, ale żeby koło mogło być przyhamowane, to najpierw musi być napędzone.
Looks like haldex 4 is accting much better than haldex 5!
So basically, 5th gen is a cheaper, less reliable version of 4th - also there's no filter for the diff oil...
The filer is internal on the pump itself.
It gets clogged eventually so cleaning is recommended. Only problem is, that isn't part of the official maintenance scope if done by dealers
Pretty shameful really like you said, for most it will be more unreliable
What is it so complicated for all companies to copy Subaru's system to all AWD SUVs? They know how to do it well, so why all other struggle so much?
Many AWD systems are already on Subaru level. Copying ain't legal right?
Subaru is also thirsty. A subaru needs more gas than a car with haldex. That‘s the reason. But subarus awd is great.
Mostly because it's more efficient and is sufficient for the majority of people.
Subaru type AWD is overkill for cars used to go shopping
if they used proper torsen helical difs it would be barely noticable
What would be barely noticeable?
Silloin kun kolme pyörää on rullilla ja takana ainoa vetävä pyörä niin haldex tarvii kaasua reippaasti niin lähtee kyllä irti. Tässä videossa kierrokset jäi liian alas joten auto ei lähtenyt liikkeelle kun vasta lopussa.
During slippage throttle is controlled by the system. Here's another Volvo, no problems at low throttle in offroad mode: th-cam.com/video/jld57N9Ramw/w-d-xo.html
Jak można wyłączyć esp w xc60?
DSTC off, gdzieś w menu.
MYCAR ->Ustawienia->systemy wspom.->DSTC
Особой разницы нет для водителя.
Ja tam nie widzę większej różnicy
Jedynie by to sprawdził w zimę
Na identycznych porządnych zimowych oponach
Rezultat końcowy jest taki sam, aczkolwiek w teście widać, że Haldex 5 jest bardziej otwarty w pozycji off-throttle.
Hey duszaniespokojna! I had a thought - if you can help me build rollers, I would happily send you video footage as closely modeled after yours for my cars! I have an Acura TLX SH-AWD, and Mercedes ML430, free to use if you are interested!
Hi, thanks but I don't see any remote possibility of help in rollers building. Too many small things and details...
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Makes sense, that is too bad! If anything changes please mention in your videos and I will comment again :) Thanks for the awesome channel!
Ну и какой вывод? О чём это видео говорит?
kkosya__ __
- видишь разницу?
- нет
- а она есть
Обрати внимание, что по звуку мотора на 2014 года муфте нужно было больше газа.
Так же можно сделать вывод, что если не можешь куда то забраться в гору, то надо ехать задним ходом, так на передние колеса "мощнее".
Nie widać różnicy pomiędzy gen 4 a5 !
W wyniku nie, ale w zachowaniu jest drobna różnica, generacja 5 wygląda na otwartą w pozycji off-throttle 🙂
Cant see any difference...
Final result is the same. The only difference I see is that gen 5 is more open in off-throttle position.
Haldex 5 top
This whole test was a complete waste if your time. No one buys a Volvo to take it off-roading.
This test is much more about slippery conditions like black ice than any offroad.
It is always funny in wintertime to launch from traffic lights like it was summer. Since Haldex is front biased, and the nose is slightly heavier I always win against four wheel drive mercs and bmws.
I do idiot.I have atr tyres on my Xc90 and it drives all over Australian deserts.
@@bluemtsexpose5984 You are the idiot for driving an SUV that is not made for off roading, off the fucking road.
I heard that the 2022xc60 is equipped with haldex 6 is that real ？
There's probably no other in use. But it's not something entirely new, it's upgraded 5th.