Percy Jackson books Aphrodite - Her looks fluctuate depending on who's looking at her and alter to their personal ideal of beauty. She likes Percy and decides to mess with his love life for fun. Her daughter Selina is an important character with a great story arc, and her daughter Piper is a main character in the sequel series, Heroes of Olympus.
Ugh. I'd forgotten about the Percy Jackson movies. It's a real shame, because Aphrodite actually made for an interesting character in the books- she never really seems to consider mortals to be people so much as toys, per say. She is known to be fond of specific individuals from millenia to millenia, but she shows her favor by putting strange and tragic obstacals in the way of their love stories- because again, they aren't people to her, they're stories. What she does makes them wonderful for telling, but hell to live through, and it never occurs to her that there might be anything wrong with that. One of her daughters ended up having a truly heartbreaking arc of her own that was really well done- but god forbid they put THAT in a movie.
I completely agree; Aphrodite is a really interesting goddess and PJO and HOO,.and the daughter you are talking about has one of my favorite stories, sad as it may be. I just wish the rights-holders would realize they are sitting on a goldmine and make the movies that should have been made in the first place.
Sparta wasn't really a paradise for women. I mean if you were a citizen it was probably fine, but if you were a helot (like most people were) it was horrifically oppressive.
@@aaravos4371 For citizens, Sparta was better for women. For anyone else, Athens was probably better. Sparta was a horrible place to live if you were a helot.
Socrates never actually wrote anything so all of his 'statements' were actually written by Plato or Xenophon in their 'dialogues' in which Socrates is a character. A common theory is that the parts where Socrates is asking questions and engaging in more back-and-forth are more authentically Socratic while the more emphatic 'here's how things are' parts are more Plato using Socrates as a mouthpiece for his own ideas.
It was actually in ATHENA's temple where Medusa was raped, not Aphrodite, and that makes sense. Athen was an uptight virgin goddess, so her priestesses having sex was forbidden.
Sorry to add so after the fact, but Athena and Poseidon (the god who raped Medusa in most versions) were ancient, bitter rivals most of the time so that also factored into her treatment of Medusa.
In the manga she's definitely modeled more after the goddess than in the anime. The show toned down quite a bit of her pervasive sensuality, much as it did for all of the characters. Takeuchi-san very heavily drew influence for each of the characters from their Greek/Roman planetary counterparts and it's especially obvious in the manga.
Having done research into Greek mythology, I can say with confidence that the majority of myths have Athena as the one to transform Medusa, not Aphrodite. Strange that visual media seems to have changed that up a bit.
I think it's because in media Athena is more well known and pretty much always portrayed as the wise motherly but strong warrior woman. The idea that she punished medusa for being raped kinda runs contrary to how Athena is usually depicted. Aphrodite, while popular isn't as well known and her attributes aren't as set in stone when it comes to her representation in pop culture. There are staples to be sure but with that tiny amount of obscurity comes an opportunity to take license with the myths.
+Stefan Filipovits From what I remember there was an earlier Greek version of the myth where Athena transformed Medusa not as a punishment, but so that she could defend herself against men. That version fits her character a lot better, I think.
+nutubesux I would not necessarily say it was earlier, but it was from the stories of the women, which do tend to make more sense with the characters of the goddesses, but were almost never recorded, which is why so many of the characters do things that don't seem to make sense.
I read only little about greek mythology, but as far as I know, there are very few interesting stories revolving around aphrodite. mostly because people back then had no idea what attraction is and what a godess of love is supposed to do. the more memorable women are always the ones that were so stunningly beautiful that they could influence the natural order of things-and aphrodite wasn't the only female with that characteristic. with our modern understanding of attraction, sex, love etc. we finally get to pin down what aphrodite was supposed to be. since her name is after all an important one and she's not one of the many girls Zeus had during his time, it's probably fine to cast her as the person that had interesting stories.
Really? I guess I can see that. I mean, it's no less cringe than when you dual wield blade-chuck's as icepicks to climb up a giant and then split it in half like it was made out of butter. It's so over the top I can't stop chuckling.
Yup. When my brothers and I first encountered it we were very conservative teenagers playing a borrowed copy of the game on a PS2 borrowed from the same person and...yeah, we were shocked to put it mildly :P
I don't remember liking it too much honestly, but maybe I was too young to get the more clever commentary...Also, I was more interested in seeing adult Hercules doing heroic stuff.
Sperium3000 I actually watched it before seeing the film seeing as I had like 2 episodes on VHS. No joke,I still quote those episodes to this day because I found them so hilarious.
Real talk tho Is amazing how basic Aphrodite from Xena looks and acts but then the character surprisingly grows on you. I never thought I could like a character dressed all in pink this much. Her growth with each episode was subtle but very well done. Hands down my favorite Aphrodite. Plus she is completely hilarious. She really has the best lines in the show.
I was so excited Lindsay included her in this. I loved Aphrodite's character in Xena an unreasonable amount. The actress really did a superb job with what could have easily been a dud of a character. She was so charismatic and just generally likeable. Also, the fact that she got an actual arc with character growth really added to her position as my favorite representation of the goddess. While Sam Raimi is weird as hell and makes some very bizarre decisions, his characterization is top-notch. I loved how well he fleshed out all of the gods in both Hercules and Xena.
Alexandra Tydings always brought an adorable fun to the character. I liken it to how Chris Evans' Captain America has that genuine earnestness that is required for Captain America, her Goddess of Love was actually lovable.
In defense of the Percy Jackson series, the books actually managed to capture her quite well in my opinion. She's not antagonistic, but she is still petty and tends to cheat on her husband (she's one of the gods with the most demigod children, together with Apollo and Hermes), Percy's love life are quite rough for a portion of the series simply because she finds it interesting to see him and his friends suffer on that department. Also, while her demigod children tend to be some of the least martial-oriented ones (which is problematic in a world where monsters try to kill you all the time), they got one of the most over-powered abilities in the books (charm speak - manipulating people by simply telling them what to do). Also, unlike the deleted scene in the movie, they have much more varied and interesting personalities than just "hot and stupid boys/girls". The movie is shit, though :p. Edit: Also, the fact that she represent a more modern version of love makes sense in-universe, since the gods are supposed to be changed and affected by the changes in Western Culture.
i think she’s talking about media in terms of television, movies, and video games, not books and novel. i don’t remember aphrodite coming up for a significant role in the shit movies so i doubt it would be significant for this discussion.
She sort of fell apart once Heroes of Olympus started. Actually quite a few of the gods did but her transformation was the worst of it. There seemed to be some idea that Riordan had that once a god was the parent of a POV character they couldn't be absolutely vile people anymore. You see Ares/Mars with softer edges in Book 2, Hephestus as actively on the Half-Blood side instead of just generally neutral but Aphrodite got the worst of it. I can kind of see why but it doesn't make it better. In the first five books she was a physical embodiment of beauty and sexual desire. She looked like whatever the viewer was attracted to and her personality was derived from that idea. Once Piper was introduced though all the male characters see Piper's mom as sexy (including Piper's love interest) was something that they didn't want to touch with a seven foot pole so Aphrodite just kind of turned into "generally attractive but down to earth mom". Also as for Charm Speak, in the first five books only the children of Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and Demeter had active superpowers. Cause they were the only eldest gods that had children. All the lower teir god kids had powerful inclinations, Ares were strong fighters, Athena strategists and creatives, Hephstefus constructed things etc etc but no actual powers. Once Heroes of Olypmus happened Riordan decided that all the POVs needed major superpowers so suddenly all the minor gods had kids with "rare abilities that only manifested once in a generation". Leo the firestarter, Piper with Charmspeak, Frank with his animal abilities etc etc. It's kind of why I think Heroes of Olympus ruined the series. They made a bunch of additions to the lore to make the main characters more palatable and the end result was lore that was kind of generic and lame.
Aphrodite is more relevant in the Percy Jackson books. She's described as looking whatever the person seeing her considers beautiful. She's with Ares (of course) when she encounters Percy. She thinks Percy and Annabeth are cute together, but that doesn't mean she won't mess with them. Then in Heroes of Olympus, she becomes MUCH more relevant because one of the central characters is her daughter Piper.
I'd love to see a loose canon on Persephone. She's my favorite goddess and I don't know any movie, other than The Lightning Thief, with her in it. She has such story potential.
Screw the Percy Jackson films, the books weren't masterpieces but for what they were trying to do they did it well. If the studio had kept faithful to the source material they could have created a Harry potter style franchise, that, unlike the franchise they actually made, didn't suck.
Even if I prefer Percy Jackson, even the BOOKS tried to use Harry Potter's success. I am actually reading Apollo's Trials and, errrrrr ... Actually it's the less good, because Apollo is so irritating, ho my god I hate him ... How do you want to love a character that say: "Errr, the black plauge isn't my fault, I was in holidays",. Percy Jackson and Heroes of Olympus had funny moments with what we call in my country dark humour, but, now, this is too much, really too much. Without speaking of the Twelve Years old kid that he must follows ... Seriously, where are Annabeth, Grover, Leo, Jason etc.... (Yes, I read only 100 pages, but I can't go forward)
@@AragornGhost15 Have you finished the series so far? The whole series is about how he's becoming less vain and understands what his children go through. Also the fact he's canonically bisexual is so satisfying, especially because in the myths he's done it with men MANY times.
+Stefan Filipovits And as much as I love her, when I saw her on a talk show talking about the movie I thought we might be in for some trouble. Considering Persephone isn't even in the Underworld at the time the book takes place.
+Guitar Hero no she didn't, not in Percy Jackson anyway. The wiki and IMDb say Persephone which is in keeping with the myth. The new moneypenny played calypso in the POTC movies.
It's not so crazy when you remember one myth states that all humans were basically male, until Pandora was created to deliberately cause humanity to fall (which was due to Prometheus tricking Zeus into selecting bones over meat as a sacrifice to the gods.)
It's strange that they didn't remember that they literally came out of a woman's vagina. It would've caused the complete chaos and collapse of their social structure to learn that all babies start out as females in the womb but some get male features because of the Y chromosome, hence why males still have nipples despite not having any use for them.
Funnily enough its a plot point in Larry Niven's Nearspace books. The Kzinti, this race of big, warlike feline aliens (Who, yes, were the inspiration for the Kilrathi from Wing Commander), are obsessed with what they called "The Heroic Ideal" where males should be big, strong warriors and females are submissive breeders, to the point that they used genetic engineering to reduce the intelligence of their females, so they are practically animals. As a result, when the Kzinti encounter human female military personnel and more to the point, get their asses handed to them by them, the only way they can reconcile this fact psychologically, is to consider human women to be a completely separate, but related alien species from human males.
A few years too late here on my part but I'll mention it anyways: A lot of other people seemed to have commented on the Athena v. Aphrodite thing when it comes to the "cursing" of Medusa, but I would also like to mention another pretty important detail, in that, in some versions of the Medusa myth, she actually IS a willing participant in the "ca-noodling" that happens in the temple. Not only is this considered to be the original interpretation of the myth, but Ovid, who wrote down the more.... non-consensual... version of this myth actually re-wrote a lot of other myths in a bid to take out his frustrations with the powers in charge, having been exiled from Rome at the time; essentially equating the gods with the government and making them look bad where ever he could, with the myth of Medusa being one such example. Just a fun bit of myth history I wanted to bring up here. Felt appropriate enough :3
@@gaiaoswald1954 I hate it when people act like the myth involved medusa getting turned into a gorgon instead of being born one, as if the existence of the sisters doesen't make it highly suspicious
@@baguettegott3409 Oh yeah, it was one of the mainstay insults used by kids of the 90s here in America. Girls naturally reversed the lines and threw it right back.
Aristotle is in general a sexist bastard, he deemed spartan women to be too powerful and uncontrollable, even though they basically ran laconia when the men and king went off to war, never mind gorgo was probably one of the most intelligent women of her position at the time
Cornelia Hanimann Did he have any good stuff though? I’m not really into philosophy, but it kinda seems like he just came up with some science that was wrong and hated women and deaf people.
Keep some of his scientific models. Ignore his thoughts on gender, society and effective drama. Studying his poetics during my bachelors made me want to headbutt my desk.
@@Greyshadow63 That's a bit of an irresponsible thing to say considering you haven't even read his works. It only takes to read Plato to realize that before Aristotle scientific works were essentially mythology with bits of personal observations here and there. There's a reason Aristotle is considered to be "the father of psychology" by some. He was the first influential philosopher to move away from all that and focus on life from a pragmatic point of view using proper scientific methods. Now, his methods obviously aren't foolproof and just like most people who established certain branches of science he was wrong about most things, however he and his works- flawed as they are- served as the foundation for later philosophers and scientists to step on and make their own observations. That's why Aristotle's works are considered valuable even today and are still being taught. And don't get me wrong, I do not share nor justify his views on women and the like. It's just that what you said seems dismissive to his contribution to science as we know it.
Well, mostly Heroes of Olympus. Percy Jackson ... oof, not so much. You don't get to be a 'good' god unless your kid is a POV character, it seems. ... And not even then, if you're Zeus. Which is fair, in his case.
@@thomashall6733 She's done books before (her wicked witch of the west video contains the book versions of the wizard of oz and wicked as well as the movie/musicals)
Krista Barrie in Mark of Athena Annabeth is actually really disgusted by Aphrodite, and even Piper seems annoyed. I think after the first 2 HOO Rick realized how “good” he made the gods who have main demigod kids, so he kinda went back on it. Leo doesn’t really like Hephaestus and Frank kind of hates Ares.
There's interesting writing and ideas in it, but yeah as a whole it's uh disappointing because the presentation and framing...that scene is pretty egregious though in its stopping the plot dead and utter ridiculousness.
EverythingFan02 Meanwhile, at Sony headquarters . . . "Hey, our target demographic is 18-30 year old males, so why not include a scene where Kratos goes out of his way to bang Aphrodite! Also, Aphrodite should have two Lesbian playmates and have her tits hanging out" "That sounds a bit out of place and really pandering in a game where a man of questionable sanity goes around enacting vengeance on the Gods themselves" "I know. We'll be rich!"
Yeah, I have nothing wrong with pornography (quite the contrary) BUT, even never playing god of war, I saw the scene as nothing more than cheap fanservice, fanservicey characters can be done well and interesting, but in a serious narrative it just...comes out of nowhere, its like Story, Story, Story, BREASTS! LESBIAN BREASTS ZOMG AJDFHAJHG, and now back to Story, Story, Story
I'm glad you've opened the comments section now, because I've been wanting to tell how much I've loved your work for so long. You are so awesome at what you do and I hope you keep doing it for a very long time. I've been a fan of yours since the days of The Nostalgia Chick, and watching you evolve as an entertainer and a person has been wonderful :) All the best to you Lindsay. Now the time has come for this comment to be lost in an ocean of hate comments, because this is TH-cam. Have a great day!
"wait wait wait, are they both human?" "um uhuh." "ok just checking." and that's a great joke about all the times in greek myths people wind up doing it with non human entities. it happens far too often.
Im running out of your videos to watch, I discovered your channel about 2 weeks ago. Your Loose Canons and Video Essays are very enjoyable. I am not a fan of sci fi books but I am going to purchase you new book this week. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I love that a version of Aphrodite makes Lindsay thing of Cher, bc Cher is based on the novel Emma and the character Emma goes around playing with her friends and family´s love lives and her name literally descends from the meaning "Goddess of love and fertility" and "Goddess of desire".
tonekilla raff That scene in the game. Come on, tell me the sex scene and the reaction of the females watching Aphrodite and whatever his name is get down and dirty. Shit was hilarious.
tonekilla raff and I'm finding you're uptight bitterness towards me being a pathetic 15yr old pseudo intellect view to be hilarious. Like I give two shits about what you think of me. Two reasons: First, you're uptight and uptight people are annoying and need to get laid; also, you sound like a loser. Second, you're wrong about me being a 15 yr old whatever the pseudo means (depending on what it means you could be right but I really don't care to look into it). Third, your opinion of me won't change how I think, feel, or view anything so if you can't find the humor in the video game, being that it's just a video game, then you have your own issues that you have to deal with. Like I said, Nostalgia Chick saw that in the game and most likely laughed at how they viewed Aphrodite and what role they gave her. Being, unlike you, she has a sense of humor.
Okay when there's a scene as blatantly ... .. .... everything..... as that god of war scene with the gender's reversed in a video game or mainstream film, then and only then will I ever give an credence this whole women are taking over the media thing.
purplecookiellamas i agree... but, it's sort of hard to parse what that "everything" would be, as there is no precedence for a gender reversal of that scenario, that being said, one way to do it would be to have the creators be "mainstream women" creating the ultimate "women's fantasy", as a bi man, i have a hard time imagining how that would translate, but thats my take on how the basic principle would work.
@@tibbarnogard8404 I'm not exactly qualified to speak to a "mainstream women's fantasy" but I feel like it'd probably be two guys cooking her a fancy meal while another guy brings her a basket of puppies.
This might seem like a weird example, but I'm reminded of Shantae: Half-Genie Hero, specifically Risky Mode. Typically after clearing a level, Risky returns to her ship and takes a bath while some of her minions stand nearby ready to obey her orders, or something like that.
Just to comment a little on the Münchhausen movie: The movie being a 'man-o-sphere fever dream' as you call it seems to be the point of the story, considering Münchhausen is a man who boasted about: -pulling himself and his horse out of a swamp on his own hair -riding a cannonball -throwing his axe to the moon and climbing there on a massive beanstalk to retrieve it among other things. Having made out with the goddess of love seems like a fitting addition to his stories.
I would also like to point out Class of the Titans, a show from Discovery Kids that tended to get a surprising amount of stuff right about Greek mythology. Aphrodite was the mentor figure for one of the seven heroes, Neil...Who only loved himself because he was the descendant of Narcissus. Class of the Titans was a strange show, I don't think a lot of people knew about, and did have the best animation, but it was still pretty good. Also the MOBA game Smite. Smite is, as you'd expect, a game where the gods of various pantheons fight each other. Aphrodite is probably one of the best healer mage characters in the game, and is still able to do some real damage if given the right build. You don't get a lot of personality or characterization from any of the gods since it isn't a story driven game, but you do get the feel that Aphrodite does highly value love and companionship and is completely shallow. When you buy armor she'll sometimes say stuff like "This will protect my face, right?" She is still fun to play and one of my mains. And for the record, God of War 3 is really when the writing quality of the series went into creative bankruptcy. The gameplay was still solid, but the story was pretty awful across the board.
+InoMercy I've tried God of War, and it feels like the kind that a lot of people wouldn't like, but a few would just love it. I do not like the gameplay. I haven't tried to Smite, but I've wanted to.
@@thedaemonicnerd805 Well it was not intentional, Medusa was raped by Poseidon. Although other stories make her and her gorgon sisters Stheno & Euryale the children of Echidna and Typhon, the mother and father of all monsters.
The Romans really helped rehabilitate her image. In the Iliad she's very much a villain, maybe the biggest villain ultimately. One of my favorite scenes in the book is Helen basically calling her out for making her fall in love with Paris.
Wait... What? You shall re-read the Iliad. Helen is not calling her out to fall in love with Paris. Aphrodite made a deal with Paris saying that Paris will have to give the Golden Apple to Aphrodite (thus telling her she is the prettiest) and in exchange, Aphrodite will make Helen fall in love with him.
well in the original story Medusa was rapped in the temple of Athena not Aphrodite, Athena then turned her in to the gorgon out of anger toward Poseidon. Then after Perseus decapitates the gorgon Athena then places her head on the front of Zeus's shield Aegis.
In the “original story,” Medusa and her sisters were daughters of a pair of minor sea gods, and were always monsters. Ovid appears to have created the transformation bit all on his own-he had been exiled, he was angry at authority, and his versions of various myths have a consistent throughline that authority (mostly in the form of the gods) is cruel, petty, untrustworthy, and vicious, even more so than other contemporary versions of those myths.
9/11 would make for an interesting episode but I think titanic and pearl Harbor episodes benefit from more hindsight. The people making 9/11 related Media lived through it while the others are often made long after the fact. Actually it might be interesting to do a comparative study on how media changes its portrayal of tragedy as we get further from the actual event.
Athens: Born a woman, you get treated as a slave Sparta: Born a woman, you are made into a man so that men respect you So yeah, Egypt and Persia would look really tempting.
Tareltonlives Spartans didn't turn women into men. They just made them tougher. A woman was respected _because_ she was a woman. She could give birth, unlike men. She could raise a child, unlike men (belief of the ancient world but it just shows you they respected women for being women). She could keep a household together while a man was away. Spartan men treated women as an essential part of society. Spartan women were tough because Spartan society was tough. With that said, they were forbidden from going to wars and still lacked certain rights but so did Persian and Egyptian women.
Essential as in they were in charge of all the slaves. So they were still inferior to men, but their superiority over slaves was far more pronounced than in other states.
Hem... I'm sorry, I don't usually write to rant, but as a humanities student, I had to say... Socrates never wrote anything. His "pupils" (Plato and Xenophon, for example) made him say what they understood to be his doctrine. And, well, they had different views on him, even though they knew the guy personally. That's why, for example, Xenophon will be rather conservative towards women's role in the society, while Plato, in his "Republic" was almost feminist when you compare to what was considered normal at the time. And this book is mainly Plato's Socrates talking about the ideal city. An ideal city with warrior women, and people given a rank because of their state of mind rather than their gender (children being raised by pedagogues in common, not by their parents). Well, this republic would be an horrible totalitarian regime, but it's quite revolutionary at the time. This is just a detail... Apart from that (and this is far more important), you nailed the difference between the greek Eros and we call love today. The Anciet Greeks ad Romans had a really complex relationship to love and sex, very, very different from ours, as you said. And yeah, Aristotle is an asshole to women. Definitely.
Aphrodite in the God of War series is one of those creative decisions that doesn't make sense for the overarching story of Kratos: His wife's ashes are literally on his skin (including his penis), so what better way to honor her memory on your quest for vengeance WHICH IS LITERALLY THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE FIRST GAME AND ENTIRE SERIES than to have sex with the goddess of love?
+Caz In a different game, perhaps Bayonetta or DMC the audaciousness of it all could have worked as a comedy moment. (especially the dualshock vibrating, christ my sides) but the game seems to want you to take the story and Kratos seriously... Somehow.
+Caz to be fair, i believe the God Of War sex scenes are meant to be ironical. They always appear way out of context and Kratos always hadles them like this one here ("No time, ahh what ever") and elements that are known to be very well done in the GOW Games are done really poorly in this scenes (like QTEs and the dialogue). I think the creators of the games are well aware of the fact, that their games are stereotypical manly games, so they integrate a scene out of a bad porn flick once in a while.... either this, or they really think that stuff makes any sense xD
+Ian Goldberg I do find it funny that Bayonetta, female video game sex symbol and all that, actually doesn't have any sex scenes. She's just here to have a good time with her friends and stop anyone who threatens that.
+Caz Actually it's funny you say that because when he was first cursed he was literally wearing same outfit he wears throughout the rest of the franchise. So think about those people that get tans in their underwear, and when they take off their underwear that part of their body is paler than the rest of there body. Whose to say the same isn't the same for Kratos? Therefore his dick and ass ain't actually covered with his wife and daughter's ashes. Also he avenged his family at the end of GOW1 the rest of the franchise was him raging at Zeus for not getting rid of his nightmares.
There is way less Aphrodite related stuff than I though. Punishing men for reasons relate to sexual interest was a Diana thing but it was common for Aphrodite's mortal lovers to get terrified of the consequences of their relation when they found out who and what she is.
I vote sinking of the Titanic for the next one. I can already think of a ton of Movies/tv shows that reference it: James Cameron's movie, the movie made by the Nazis, tim Bandits, Doctor Who, Futurama, the Time tunnel etc.
Aphrodite had a lot of baggage from Ishtar, the Babylonian love goddess. Here's from the epic of Gligamesh: "Listen to me while I tell the tale of your lovers. There was Tammuz, the lover of your youth, for him you decreed wailing, year after year. You loved the many-coloured Lilac-breasted Roller, but still you struck and broke his wing [...] You have loved the lion tremendous in strength: seven pits you dug for him, and seven. You have loved the stallion magnificent in battle, and for him you decreed the whip and spur and a thong [...] You have loved the shepherd of the flock; he made meal-cake for you day after day, he killed kids for your sake. You struck and turned him into a wolf; now his own herd-boys chase him away, his own hounds worry his flanks."
"The magic of video doesn't capture... the DualShock shaking" Speak for yourself - with that sound effect, the overwrought visuals on the timing and the quaking frame, I all but felt it in my bones.
Considering they're basically a bunch of warrior princesses based on the Roman (and by extension Greek) gods, I'm surprised you didn't mention the Sailor Guardians (or Scouts...whatever you prefer.) Overall, great loose canon though! I still can't get over that theme from the Hercules TV series! XDDD If you do another Greek Goddess, Juno/Hera would be interesting to see (and that's not just because of a certain notorious yandere character who supposedly is her reincarnation.) ^^;
I'm really glad you like the Disney Hercules show. That type of humor was some of Disney's best. And it was nice to see Aphrodite played in a more adult mentor way--making her fit into the reimagining of the gods in that universe. (I mean, Hera was the nice, respectful maternal figure!) The only complaint I did have was that there was not even a hint of drunk Lindsay, but I see you gave her her own episode this time. Also figured out that you look drunker than you are due to the whole allergy/sneezing thing, which explains why drunk Lindsay is still so coherent (and still likeable.) Anyways, hope you're doing well, and that you keep the intellectual content coming. I never knew that at all about Aphrodite and eros being a bad thing--it didn't come up in my Greek mythology class at all! I guess I've bought into the modern version where you need some of each type of love in a good romantic relationship.
I cannot describe how much love I have for this series and all the work you put into it - I'm always so happy whenever I see you've uploaded a new one!
I second that Hercules the animated series was one of the best depictions of Aphrodite, however, I'm also biased cause i love the entire series and was so sad when it stopped showing.
These are very well researched and entertaining, and based on how giggly they make you, you sem to have a lot of fun making them. Keep making wonderful videos!
Sadly, Pearl Harbor is probably not gonna be picked, which is a real shame. It's slowly becoming less 'popular' as time goes on and I woulda loved the chance for you to educate on it. Plus, we would have been able to talk about one of your faaaaaaavorite directors again.
I hated those Percy Jackson films. The books are what brought me into reading and they're my favorite to this day. Aphrodite daughters in the movie partying with Grover and Grover being into it just kills me. It feels like the writers shat on the book and the characters within it. Also as a Greek mythology lover I think even if the media tried to get her right, it'd be more of a fan service type thing. Because Aphrodite was definitely not about monogamy if you know what I mean
kind of hilarious that the video game cutscene was a less entertaining "Toucha Toucha Toucha Touch Me", with the two girls spying off to the side and everything
Kratos is the very embodiment of toxic masculinity... His arc of vengeance and revenge (which by all actuality is totally his fault) was closed and complete by the first game's end and frankly, that's where the series should have ended... With him as the protagonist anyway... Every subsequent game has just been a further descent into full-on villainy, which would be perfectly fine had they treated it as such but the sequels try so clumsily to twist the narrative in order to portray Kratos' mission as just and keep the power fantasy rolling... And now they're thinking about bringing him back to face the Norse Gods... *sigh*
+Michael Scally I agree with you on that. I still enjoy the GOW games for the most part but I think the problem is that Sony hasn't done the best job of creating a good variety of protagonists for their franchises like Nintendo has. IDK, it's hard to make a killer IP to keep the people coming back and it's even harder when Uncharted and GOW keep selling so well, to the point they ask themselves "What? You want us to not make any money?" It's not an easy situation.
+Levon Gevorgyan masculinity is a cultural construct and societal delusion, based entirely on power, authority-obsession, egotism, domination, conquest, and harming others. Therefore, the entire concept of masculinity is toxic. So I guess you'd be right, there's no such thing as "toxic masculinity," because there isn't just a PORTION of masculinity that is toxic, and another portion that isn't. Rather, the ENTIRE CONCEPT of masculinity is toxic. Male and Female exist in nature, but Masculinity and Femininity do not. They are incorrect hypothesis based on a flawed human understanding of how gender and biological sex correlate. They are made up. Pretend. A false belief, not a solid fact. The only purpose they ever served was to uphold a hierarchy, with masculinity as superior and femininity as inferior. Hence the term, "hegemonic masculinity."
+Michael Scally I feel the same way about the character. I'm not surprised another game is being made but at this point I feel the only way you can salvage the series is to design a new protagonist and give Kratos an antagonistic role. Sadly I don't think anyone on the Santa Monica team realizes how unlikable Kratos actually is now.
+Chez Lindsay Ever heard of a now on hiatus web comic called "Olympus Overdrive"? That comics interpretation of Aphrodite I found a good deal more likable than we usually get in a story. Her assigned mortal...is. goth. But not really, as her frame is too boxy for traditional female clothes. It's also worth noting that the quiz before the assigned God shows up? One of the questions is what is their favorite color? This color becomes their default skin color that only the participants of the Overdrive can see. The kind of Goth girls? Pink. I'm going to later look for the link to the exact page, but it's something you should check out.
You know if you ever bring this show back, you should consider doing a loose cannon with Norse gods. Considering how many versions of Thor and Loki there are in the media you would have a lot of fun picking apart shows like The Almighty Johnsons, Thor, the new God of War and even Hercules the Animated serries. Think about it, Vince Vaughn as Loki, it's a good mine.
There's so much to explore with the concept of a female goddess of love and sex that it's really such a shame how rarely she comes up as a character in media.
There was an episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch that her. I don't remember much but that she had the story of everyone's love lives arranged as romance novels on a bookshelf. I just really liked that concept but it's fine you didn't mention it. I'm sure there have been way more mentions of her than Hades. Speaking of which... ever think about an update on the Wicked Witch and Hades? We have them both on OUAT and--- well--- yeah.
Lindsay, I'm a long-time fan of yours and I love most everything you do. But you really need to treat the subject of Classical literature/culture/mythology with greater respect. While it's obvious that the Ancient Greeks' views on women wouldn't fly in the modern West, saying that they considered women "sub-human" is grossly inaccurate and frankly pretty insulting. It overlooks the fact that they had greater female representation in their stories than any other ancient culture arguably until the Renaissance; they were, to my knowledge, the first culture to celebrate a female writer (Sappho) and later in time a female mathematician (Hypatia), they had numerous female gods including super-deities like Gaia and Rhea who predate (historically and diegetically) the traditional pantheon; they had tragedies and novels with female protagonists; and their stories, as far back as the Odyssey itself, are stocked with important and authoritative female characters. Do Penelope, Medea, Antigone and Calliroe really strike you as "sub-human" in any way? Have you read the plays by Euripides, in which he has his female protagonist say: "Of all creatures that can feel and think, we women are the worst treated things alive. First at an exorbitant price we must buy a husband and master of our bodies. And the outcome of our life's striving hangs on this, whether we take a bad or a good husband. For divorce is discreditable for women and it is not possible to refuse wedlock. A man, whenever he is annoyed with the company of those in the house, goes elsewhere and thus rids his soul of its boredom. But we must fix our gaze on one person only." Your mis-quoting of the Greek philosophers is particularly unfortunate. I'd love to know where the Socrates quote comes from, since (like Buddha and Jesus) the man never wrote a word. I Googled that phrase and was linked to a book called "The Lost Apostle", which doesn't actually quote Socrates directly. Aristotle's words look very different when quoted in full: "The evil showed itself in the Theban invasion, when, *unlike the women in the other cities*, they were utterly useless and caused more confusion than the enemy." And I seem to recall that Plato argued women should be part of the ruling class of his Republic. Did these philosophers consider women as by and large inferior to men? Yes, definitely. But "sub-human" or "objects" (the way, eg. that women are treated in the Bible) most certainly not, and their views were miles more progressive than... well, than anyone in the West, again, until more or less the 1700s. You're a great critic of modern and pop culture, Lindsay. But Classicism is a complex topic which you clearly do not master, and you should either properly research your sources, or else just state a disclaimer like "I'm going to gloss over the ancient representations as I'm not an expert". Especially because you gloss anyway (a whole video on Aphrodite and not a single mention of the Iliad, the Aeneid and the Metamorphoses?). Warmly, A fan.
Well I mean she was in Class of The Titans, an animated show mostly run in Canada, and she was pretty funny. Figured it wouldn't be in here, but I did sort of hope maybe you would touch on it
One of the few Myths I can think of that showed Aphrodite's personality was the tale of Eros and Psyche, where she couldn't stand the thought of someone else could be prettier than her.
"Are they both human?"
"Uh-uh"
"I'm just checking, go on"
That's a very Greek thing to say.
*laughs in Zeus*
Laughs in Alicibiades
I gotta get me some angry lingerie.
It was actually mourning lingerie: Xena had just killed her husband with his own hammer.
Bitch of Rome Entertainment Xenia’s mom did that.
@@CobaltContrast Bed Bath and Banishment carries some
Percy Jackson books Aphrodite - Her looks fluctuate depending on who's looking at her and alter to their personal ideal of beauty. She likes Percy and decides to mess with his love life for fun. Her daughter Selina is an important character with a great story arc, and her daughter Piper is a main character in the sequel series, Heroes of Olympus.
Hello, fellow demigod.
love that series
Laura Evans hello fellow demigod! How’s camp half-blood?
Laura Evans Even Cupid is depicted as a dangerous entity, not a baby with chubby cheeks and diaper!
Sayak Choudhury, why wouldn't he be? Eros is the god of Desire. He wrecks more stuff than his mom. A lot more...
Ugh. I'd forgotten about the Percy Jackson movies. It's a real shame, because Aphrodite actually made for an interesting character in the books- she never really seems to consider mortals to be people so much as toys, per say. She is known to be fond of specific individuals from millenia to millenia, but she shows her favor by putting strange and tragic obstacals in the way of their love stories- because again, they aren't people to her, they're stories. What she does makes them wonderful for telling, but hell to live through, and it never occurs to her that there might be anything wrong with that. One of her daughters ended up having a truly heartbreaking arc of her own that was really well done- but god forbid they put THAT in a movie.
I know how you feel, I loved Aphrodite's depiction in PJO and HOO and it's a shame she (and pretty much everything in PJO) was butchered to hell.
I completely agree; Aphrodite is a really interesting goddess and PJO and HOO,.and the daughter you are talking about has one of my favorite stories, sad as it may be. I just wish the rights-holders would realize they are sitting on a goldmine and make the movies that should have been made in the first place.
The Percy Jackson movies don't exist. We don't walk about them.
Silena! Also, Piper in the Heroes of Olympus is so underrated!
Hopefully the Author's NEW Series doesn't get any movies.
Sparta: All women . . . are QUEEN!
Athens: If she breathes . . . she's a THO0O0O0O0O0O0O0OT!
*Peloponnesian War Intesifies*
As a History buff I can tell you this is exactly how the Peloponnesian War started. 😂
Sparta wasn't really a paradise for women. I mean if you were a citizen it was probably fine, but if you were a helot (like most people were) it was horrifically oppressive.
@@porsche911sbs atill better then Athens which is funnny to me because the spartans [refered 'god' is ares and Athens' God is "Athena" A woman
@@aaravos4371 For citizens, Sparta was better for women. For anyone else, Athens was probably better. Sparta was a horrible place to live if you were a helot.
@@porsche911sbs Yeah thats true
"I'm your Venus" will always be burned into my brain as connected to overpriced razors.
"Socrates wrote..." As far as I am aware, he did not.
"Socrates badgered passersby with both his smell and..." would've been too long
*Plato wrote what Socrates supposedly said
There, that's better.
That's quite a strong statement from Mr. "all I know is that I know nothing" Socrates.
Socrates never actually wrote anything so all of his 'statements' were actually written by Plato or Xenophon in their 'dialogues' in which Socrates is a character. A common theory is that the parts where Socrates is asking questions and engaging in more back-and-forth are more authentically Socratic while the more emphatic 'here's how things are' parts are more Plato using Socrates as a mouthpiece for his own ideas.
It was actually in ATHENA's temple where Medusa was raped, not Aphrodite, and that makes sense. Athen was an uptight virgin goddess, so her priestesses having sex was forbidden.
Yep. Thought there was something wrong with what they were saying.
Sorry to add so after the fact, but Athena and Poseidon (the god who raped Medusa in most versions) were ancient, bitter rivals most of the time so that also factored into her treatment of Medusa.
And only Ovid actually has it be rape-it's consensual in other versions.
There’s a version of the story that Athena made her a gorgon so no man could hurt her again.
Trey Shipman That be a neat idea for a story.
Not a sexual goddess, but I thought Sailor Venus deserved a mention.
In the manga she's definitely modeled more after the goddess than in the anime. The show toned down quite a bit of her pervasive sensuality, much as it did for all of the characters. Takeuchi-san very heavily drew influence for each of the characters from their Greek/Roman planetary counterparts and it's especially obvious in the manga.
Saw 68 likes had to buff it up to 69!
love and appreciate this a lot
the aphrodite jingle sounds like doofenshmerts evil incorporated
.....the goddess of love!
+255ad
*Ding!*
"NOT THAT STUPID SONG AGAIN! "
"The Loooove Goddess!"Did Lindsey see the old TV ads for The Loooove Boat"?
Having done research into Greek mythology, I can say with confidence that the majority of myths have Athena as the one to transform Medusa, not Aphrodite. Strange that visual media seems to have changed that up a bit.
I think it's because in media Athena is more well known and pretty much always portrayed as the wise motherly but strong warrior woman. The idea that she punished medusa for being raped kinda runs contrary to how Athena is usually depicted. Aphrodite, while popular isn't as well known and her attributes aren't as set in stone when it comes to her representation in pop culture. There are staples to be sure but with that tiny amount of obscurity comes an opportunity to take license with the myths.
+Stefan Filipovits From what I remember there was an earlier Greek version of the myth where Athena transformed Medusa not as a punishment, but so that she could defend herself against men. That version fits her character a lot better, I think.
+nutubesux I would not necessarily say it was earlier, but it was from the stories of the women, which do tend to make more sense with the characters of the goddesses, but were almost never recorded, which is why so many of the characters do things that don't seem to make sense.
I read only little about greek mythology, but as far as I know, there are very few interesting stories revolving around aphrodite. mostly because people back then had no idea what attraction is and what a godess of love is supposed to do.
the more memorable women are always the ones that were so stunningly beautiful that they could influence the natural order of things-and aphrodite wasn't the only female with that characteristic.
with our modern understanding of attraction, sex, love etc. we finally get to pin down what aphrodite was supposed to be. since her name is after all an important one and she's not one of the many girls Zeus had during his time, it's probably fine to cast her as the person that had interesting stories.
Athena turned Medusa into a monster because she was doing Poseidon in one of Athena's temples.
I still can’t believe how cringe the god of war scene is
Really?
I guess I can see that.
I mean, it's no less cringe than when you dual wield blade-chuck's as icepicks to climb up a giant and then split it in half like it was made out of butter.
It's so over the top I can't stop chuckling.
@@YayapLives Cringe isn't always "bad," cringe can be funny.
Also you'd be surprised how many people take God of War very seriously.
I find it absolutely hilarious. The maidens are a whole fucking mood.
Yup. When my brothers and I first encountered it we were very conservative teenagers playing a borrowed copy of the game on a PS2 borrowed from the same person and...yeah, we were shocked to put it mildly :P
@@NIHIL_EGO
The maidens where openly horny on main, which I respect.
The Hercules animated series is seriously underrated.
Definitely.
I don't remember liking it too much honestly, but maybe I was too young to get the more clever commentary...Also, I was more interested in seeing adult Hercules doing heroic stuff.
Sperium3000 I actually watched it before seeing the film seeing as I had like 2 episodes on VHS. No joke,I still quote those episodes to this day because I found them so hilarious.
They made a lot of great nods to actual Greek Mythology too! One of my personal favorites would be the "Orpheus: Never Look Back" concert XD
It really is. Even the comic relief character wasn't that bad in context
Real talk tho Is amazing how basic Aphrodite from Xena looks and acts but then the character surprisingly grows on you. I never thought I could like a character dressed all in pink this much. Her growth with each episode was subtle but very well done. Hands down my favorite Aphrodite. Plus she is completely hilarious. She really has the best lines in the show.
I was so excited Lindsay included her in this. I loved Aphrodite's character in Xena an unreasonable amount. The actress really did a superb job with what could have easily been a dud of a character. She was so charismatic and just generally likeable. Also, the fact that she got an actual arc with character growth really added to her position as my favorite representation of the goddess. While Sam Raimi is weird as hell and makes some very bizarre decisions, his characterization is top-notch. I loved how well he fleshed out all of the gods in both Hercules and Xena.
Alexandra Tydings always brought an adorable fun to the character. I liken it to how Chris Evans' Captain America has that genuine earnestness that is required for Captain America, her Goddess of Love was actually lovable.
In defense of the Percy Jackson series, the books actually managed to capture her quite well in my opinion. She's not antagonistic, but she is still petty and tends to cheat on her husband (she's one of the gods with the most demigod children, together with Apollo and Hermes), Percy's love life are quite rough for a portion of the series simply because she finds it interesting to see him and his friends suffer on that department.
Also, while her demigod children tend to be some of the least martial-oriented ones (which is problematic in a world where monsters try to kill you all the time), they got one of the most over-powered abilities in the books (charm speak - manipulating people by simply telling them what to do). Also, unlike the deleted scene in the movie, they have much more varied and interesting personalities than just "hot and stupid boys/girls".
The movie is shit, though :p.
Edit: Also, the fact that she represent a more modern version of love makes sense in-universe, since the gods are supposed to be changed and affected by the changes in Western Culture.
Tom Hadas both Aphrodite and apollo I get but I was really surprised by Hermes when I read the books
i think she’s talking about media in terms of television, movies, and video games, not books and novel. i don’t remember aphrodite coming up for a significant role in the shit movies so i doubt it would be significant for this discussion.
@@DaFireElf
she's talked about books before sooooo
@@DaFireElf
watch her wicked witch of the west video
She sort of fell apart once Heroes of Olympus started. Actually quite a few of the gods did but her transformation was the worst of it. There seemed to be some idea that Riordan had that once a god was the parent of a POV character they couldn't be absolutely vile people anymore. You see Ares/Mars with softer edges in Book 2, Hephestus as actively on the Half-Blood side instead of just generally neutral but Aphrodite got the worst of it.
I can kind of see why but it doesn't make it better. In the first five books she was a physical embodiment of beauty and sexual desire. She looked like whatever the viewer was attracted to and her personality was derived from that idea. Once Piper was introduced though all the male characters see Piper's mom as sexy (including Piper's love interest) was something that they didn't want to touch with a seven foot pole so Aphrodite just kind of turned into "generally attractive but down to earth mom".
Also as for Charm Speak, in the first five books only the children of Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and Demeter had active superpowers. Cause they were the only eldest gods that had children. All the lower teir god kids had powerful inclinations, Ares were strong fighters, Athena strategists and creatives, Hephstefus constructed things etc etc but no actual powers. Once Heroes of Olypmus happened Riordan decided that all the POVs needed major superpowers so suddenly all the minor gods had kids with "rare abilities that only manifested once in a generation". Leo the firestarter, Piper with Charmspeak, Frank with his animal abilities etc etc.
It's kind of why I think Heroes of Olympus ruined the series. They made a bunch of additions to the lore to make the main characters more palatable and the end result was lore that was kind of generic and lame.
I always liked the Hercules/Xena valley girl Aphrodite. She had so much energy on screen and she was funny.
me too! i thought she was soo hilarious!
Aphrodite is more relevant in the Percy Jackson books. She's described as looking whatever the person seeing her considers beautiful. She's with Ares (of course) when she encounters Percy. She thinks Percy and Annabeth are cute together, but that doesn't mean she won't mess with them. Then in Heroes of Olympus, she becomes MUCH more relevant because one of the central characters is her daughter Piper.
fairycatLJT "She thinks Percy and Annabeth are cute together, but that doesn't mean she won't mess with them."
gg aphrodite is your typical shipper
Aphrodite in those books is one of my least favorite depictions of her that I can think of off the top of my head.
@@TheOwlQueen
May I ask why? Is it because she's just annoying and she fucks with everyone or....?
Sky Dome as someone who recently got into sims....you aren’t wrong
Sky Dome Ah, thanks! I play Sims 4 and 3! Mostly 4 because of expansion packs and Lilith Vatore, lol. What about you?
I'd love to see a loose canon on Persephone. She's my favorite goddess and I don't know any movie, other than The Lightning Thief, with her in it. She has such story potential.
Screw the Percy Jackson films, the books weren't masterpieces but for what they were trying to do they did it well. If the studio had kept faithful to the source material they could have created a Harry potter style franchise, that, unlike the franchise they actually made, didn't suck.
percy jackson was to harry potter what dc is to marvel
Even if I prefer Percy Jackson, even the BOOKS tried to use Harry Potter's success. I am actually reading Apollo's Trials and, errrrrr ... Actually it's the less good, because Apollo is so irritating, ho my god I hate him ... How do you want to love a character that say: "Errr, the black plauge isn't my fault, I was in holidays",. Percy Jackson and Heroes of Olympus had funny moments with what we call in my country dark humour, but, now, this is too much, really too much. Without speaking of the Twelve Years old kid that he must follows ... Seriously, where are Annabeth, Grover, Leo, Jason etc.... (Yes, I read only 100 pages, but I can't go forward)
@@AragornGhost15
Have you finished the series so far? The whole series is about how he's becoming less vain and understands what his children go through. Also the fact he's canonically bisexual is so satisfying, especially because in the myths he's done it with men MANY times.
@@helmetlesssolairedotpng4220PJO to Harry Potter is more like The Maze Runner is to The Hunger Games. Near identical plot points and tropes
There's not enough stuff with Aphrodite or Persephone.
Oddly enough Persephone shows up in the first Percy Jackson movie too. She's played by the always awesome Rosario Dawson.
+Stefan Filipovits And as much as I love her, when I saw her on a talk show talking about the movie I thought we might be in for some trouble. Considering Persephone isn't even in the Underworld at the time the book takes place.
Rosario Dawson played Calypso.
+Guitar Hero no she didn't, not in Percy Jackson anyway. The wiki and IMDb say Persephone which is in keeping with the myth. The new moneypenny played calypso in the POTC movies.
It's crazy how ancient people thought that a different gender was like a different species :-/
Not that crazy , in elementary I remember not knowing how to approach the concept that someone can have different body parts but still be like me
It's not so crazy when you remember one myth states that all humans were basically male, until Pandora was created to deliberately cause humanity to fall (which was due to Prometheus tricking Zeus into selecting bones over meat as a sacrifice to the gods.)
It's strange that they didn't remember that they literally came out of a woman's vagina. It would've caused the complete chaos and collapse of their social structure to learn that all babies start out as females in the womb but some get male features because of the Y chromosome, hence why males still have nipples despite not having any use for them.
Funnily enough its a plot point in Larry Niven's Nearspace books. The Kzinti, this race of big, warlike feline aliens (Who, yes, were the inspiration for the Kilrathi from Wing Commander), are obsessed with what they called "The Heroic Ideal" where males should be big, strong warriors and females are submissive breeders, to the point that they used genetic engineering to reduce the intelligence of their females, so they are practically animals. As a result, when the Kzinti encounter human female military personnel and more to the point, get their asses handed to them by them, the only way they can reconcile this fact psychologically, is to consider human women to be a completely separate, but related alien species from human males.
@@weldonwin That's some pretty impressive mental gymnastic. I'm happy that people like that don't exists in reality !
Yes that was sarcasm (￣▽￣)"
A few years too late here on my part but I'll mention it anyways: A lot of other people seemed to have commented on the Athena v. Aphrodite thing when it comes to the "cursing" of Medusa, but I would also like to mention another pretty important detail, in that, in some versions of the Medusa myth, she actually IS a willing participant in the "ca-noodling" that happens in the temple. Not only is this considered to be the original interpretation of the myth, but Ovid, who wrote down the more.... non-consensual... version of this myth actually re-wrote a lot of other myths in a bid to take out his frustrations with the powers in charge, having been exiled from Rome at the time; essentially equating the gods with the government and making them look bad where ever he could, with the myth of Medusa being one such example. Just a fun bit of myth history I wanted to bring up here. Felt appropriate enough :3
THANK YOU, I hate it so much when people act like the non-consensual version is the original form of the myth
@@gaiaoswald1954 I hate it when people act like the myth involved medusa getting turned into a gorgon instead of being born one, as if the existence of the sisters doesen't make it highly suspicious
Hades was also interested in Maleficient in a very memorable episode of House of Mouse =D
+Henry T I am both proud and ashamed to admit that I am very familiar with this episode.
+Chez Lindsay I still think Chernabog and Maleficent made the cuter couple
+Henry T That show>>>>>>>>>>>>.the movie Maleficent
+Chez Lindsay
Don't be ashamed, House of Mouse was a cool series... I think... it's been awhile.
+Chez Lindsay Aw...c'mon!!! Don't be ashamed. I actually loved House of Mouse. That show was awesome!!!
Aphrodite, Aphrodite, Aphrodite! The goddess of love ~ ♫
The jingle alone made her the best character in the show :D
3:09
Homeboy really started the phrase "boys rule girls drool"
@@baguettegott3409 Oh yeah, it was one of the mainstay insults used by kids of the 90s here in America. Girls naturally reversed the lines and threw it right back.
Wow, Aphrodite from "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" sure has a nice clam!
( ._.)
Aristotle is in general a sexist bastard, he deemed spartan women to be too powerful and uncontrollable, even though they basically ran laconia when the men and king went off to war, never mind gorgo was probably one of the most intelligent women of her position at the time
nobody's perfect.
he's dead anyway, we can keep his good stuff and ignore his sexism.
it's seriously not our problem anymore
Cornelia Hanimann Did he have any good stuff though? I’m not really into philosophy, but it kinda seems like he just came up with some science that was wrong and hated women and deaf people.
Keep some of his scientific models. Ignore his thoughts on gender, society and effective drama. Studying his poetics during my bachelors made me want to headbutt my desk.
@@Greyshadow63 That's a bit of an irresponsible thing to say considering you haven't even read his works. It only takes to read Plato to realize that before Aristotle scientific works were essentially mythology with bits of personal observations here and there. There's a reason Aristotle is considered to be "the father of psychology" by some. He was the first influential philosopher to move away from all that and focus on life from a pragmatic point of view using proper scientific methods. Now, his methods obviously aren't foolproof and just like most people who established certain branches of science he was wrong about most things, however he and his works- flawed as they are- served as the foundation for later philosophers and scientists to step on and make their own observations. That's why Aristotle's works are considered valuable even today and are still being taught.
And don't get me wrong, I do not share nor justify his views on women and the like. It's just that what you said seems dismissive to his contribution to science as we know it.
Aristotle is basically the guy who's wrong on almost everything.
I'm having a horrible day and then I saw a new "loose canon" episode. Dreams really do come true.
I wish she would have added the Percy Jackson and Heroes of olympus books Aphrodite, I honestly think she was a pretty great character in my opinion
these are all movies and television shows. though i agree. she's awesome in that.
Well, mostly Heroes of Olympus. Percy Jackson ... oof, not so much. You don't get to be a 'good' god unless your kid is a POV character, it seems.
... And not even then, if you're Zeus. Which is fair, in his case.
The portrayal of Aphrodite herself isn't very flattering in the PJO books, but Silena is still a hero.
@@thomashall6733
She's done books before (her wicked witch of the west video contains the book versions of the wizard of oz and wicked as well as the movie/musicals)
Krista Barrie in Mark of Athena Annabeth is actually really disgusted by Aphrodite, and even Piper seems annoyed. I think after the first 2 HOO Rick realized how “good” he made the gods who have main demigod kids, so he kinda went back on it. Leo doesn’t really like Hephaestus and Frank kind of hates Ares.
That god of war scene.....
As a man, I am still highly offended/scarred for life
+tonekilla raff It's offensive to people who like good storytelling. The scene does nothing to further the plot and is straight out of cheesy porn.
From what I've heard, the rest of God of War III's writing is on par in terms of quality. Am I right?
There's interesting writing and ideas in it, but yeah as a whole it's uh disappointing because the presentation and framing...that scene is pretty egregious though in its stopping the plot dead and utter ridiculousness.
EverythingFan02 Meanwhile, at Sony headquarters . . .
"Hey, our target demographic is 18-30 year old males, so why not include a scene where Kratos goes out of his way to bang Aphrodite! Also, Aphrodite should have two Lesbian playmates and have her tits hanging out"
"That sounds a bit out of place and really pandering in a game where a man of questionable sanity goes around enacting vengeance on the Gods themselves"
"I know. We'll be rich!"
Yeah, I have nothing wrong with pornography (quite the contrary) BUT, even never playing god of war, I saw the scene as nothing more than cheap fanservice, fanservicey characters can be done well and interesting, but in a serious narrative it just...comes out of nowhere, its like Story, Story, Story, BREASTS! LESBIAN BREASTS ZOMG AJDFHAJHG, and now back to Story, Story, Story
I'm glad you've opened the comments section now, because I've been wanting to tell how much I've loved your work for so long. You are so awesome at what you do and I hope you keep doing it for a very long time. I've been a fan of yours since the days of The Nostalgia Chick, and watching you evolve as an entertainer and a person has been wonderful :)
All the best to you Lindsay. Now the time has come for this comment to be lost in an ocean of hate comments, because this is TH-cam. Have a great day!
"wait wait wait, are they both human?"
"um uhuh."
"ok just checking."
and that's a great joke about all the times in greek myths people wind up doing it with non human entities. it happens far too often.
Im running out of your videos to watch, I discovered your channel about 2 weeks ago. Your Loose Canons and Video Essays are very enjoyable. I am not a fan of sci fi books but I am going to purchase you new book this week. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Fuck, I lost it when she said "She is wearing her angry lingerie, so you know she means business". It's so ridiculously funny.
I love that a version of Aphrodite makes Lindsay thing of Cher, bc Cher is based on the novel Emma and the character Emma goes around playing with her friends and family´s love lives and her name literally descends from the meaning "Goddess of love and fertility" and "Goddess of desire".
Karl Urban is known for his rolls as badass characters such as Eomer, Judge Dredd, and CUPID.
"We need you to make a song to play during a shopping spree montage."
"Say no more."
lol Poor Lindsay. You might actually like the first God of War, when the story was actually like a Greek tragedy instead of a parody of one
She probably thought this parody game one was funny.....because honestly, it was.
tonekilla raff That scene in the game. Come on, tell me the sex scene and the reaction of the females watching Aphrodite and whatever his name is get down and dirty. Shit was hilarious.
tonekilla raff and I'm finding you're uptight bitterness towards me being a pathetic 15yr old pseudo intellect view to be hilarious. Like I give two shits about what you think of me. Two reasons:
First, you're uptight and uptight people are annoying and need to get laid; also, you sound like a loser.
Second, you're wrong about me being a 15 yr old whatever the pseudo means (depending on what it means you could be right but I really don't care to look into it).
Third, your opinion of me won't change how I think, feel, or view anything so if you can't find the humor in the video game, being that it's just a video game, then you have your own issues that you have to deal with.
Like I said, Nostalgia Chick saw that in the game and most likely laughed at how they viewed Aphrodite and what role they gave her. Being, unlike you, she has a sense of humor.
tonekilla raff and done, welcome to the blocked list. You're an idiot.
Perhaps. But that scene is stupid as hell.
I smiled when I saw you in my notifications Lindsey. Keep up the good work
Okay when there's a scene as blatantly ... .. .... everything..... as that god of war scene with the gender's reversed in a video game or mainstream film, then and only then will I ever give an credence this whole women are taking over the media thing.
purplecookiellamas I second this.
purplecookiellamas i agree... but, it's sort of hard to parse what that "everything" would be, as there is no precedence for a gender reversal of that scenario, that being said, one way to do it would be to have the creators be "mainstream women" creating the ultimate "women's fantasy", as a bi man, i have a hard time imagining how that would translate, but thats my take on how the basic principle would work.
@@tibbarnogard8404 I'm not exactly qualified to speak to a "mainstream women's fantasy" but I feel like it'd probably be two guys cooking her a fancy meal while another guy brings her a basket of puppies.
J Kay perhaps...
This might seem like a weird example, but I'm reminded of Shantae: Half-Genie Hero, specifically Risky Mode. Typically after clearing a level, Risky returns to her ship and takes a bath while some of her minions stand nearby ready to obey her orders, or something like that.
Just to comment a little on the Münchhausen movie:
The movie being a 'man-o-sphere fever dream' as you call it seems to be the point of the story, considering Münchhausen is a man who boasted about:
-pulling himself and his horse out of a swamp on his own hair
-riding a cannonball
-throwing his axe to the moon and climbing there on a massive beanstalk to retrieve it
among other things.
Having made out with the goddess of love seems like a fitting addition to his stories.
Thank you for another great episode!
Lisa Kudrow makes Hercules' Aphrodite very entertaining.
Wow. I was just checking on the channel after ages and i get a Loose Cannon posted 4 minutes earlier. Yay!!!
I love when that happens
I would also like to point out Class of the Titans, a show from Discovery Kids that tended to get a surprising amount of stuff right about Greek mythology. Aphrodite was the mentor figure for one of the seven heroes, Neil...Who only loved himself because he was the descendant of Narcissus. Class of the Titans was a strange show, I don't think a lot of people knew about, and did have the best animation, but it was still pretty good.
Also the MOBA game Smite. Smite is, as you'd expect, a game where the gods of various pantheons fight each other. Aphrodite is probably one of the best healer mage characters in the game, and is still able to do some real damage if given the right build. You don't get a lot of personality or characterization from any of the gods since it isn't a story driven game, but you do get the feel that Aphrodite does highly value love and companionship and is completely shallow. When you buy armor she'll sometimes say stuff like "This will protect my face, right?" She is still fun to play and one of my mains.
And for the record, God of War 3 is really when the writing quality of the series went into creative bankruptcy. The gameplay was still solid, but the story was pretty awful across the board.
+InoMercy I've tried God of War, and it feels like the kind that a lot of people wouldn't like, but a few would just love it. I do not like the gameplay. I haven't tried to Smite, but I've wanted to.
Guys, guys, you need to vote Pearl Harbor, because then Lindsay gets to talk about her favorite subject: MICHAEL BAY!
+quiroz923 Agreed! I vote Bay Harbor!
I thought it was Athena who cursed Medusa?
She did
she did, and Medusa did have sex with Poseidon in a temple but it was that of Athena, not Aphrodite
There are versions, but yeah, Athena is the most associated with Medusa
Ok good, I thought I was going crazy.
@@thedaemonicnerd805 Well it was not intentional, Medusa was raped by Poseidon.
Although other stories make her and her gorgon sisters Stheno & Euryale the children of Echidna and Typhon, the mother and father of all monsters.
i really love the direction of your channel in applying a more historical approach to aspect of film! i always look forward to seeing loose canon!
The Romans really helped rehabilitate her image. In the Iliad she's very much a villain, maybe the biggest villain ultimately. One of my favorite scenes in the book is Helen basically calling her out for making her fall in love with Paris.
John Rhys Davies as Zeus sounds pretty badass. But again, so does Liam Neeson.
Wait... What? You shall re-read the Iliad. Helen is not calling her out to fall in love with Paris. Aphrodite made a deal with Paris saying that Paris will have to give the Golden Apple to Aphrodite (thus telling her she is the prettiest) and in exchange, Aphrodite will make Helen fall in love with him.
well in the original story Medusa was rapped in the temple of Athena not Aphrodite, Athena then turned her in to the gorgon out of anger toward Poseidon. Then after Perseus decapitates the gorgon Athena then places her head on the front of Zeus's shield Aegis.
In the “original story,” Medusa and her sisters were daughters of a pair of minor sea gods, and were always monsters. Ovid appears to have created the transformation bit all on his own-he had been exiled, he was angry at authority, and his versions of various myths have a consistent throughline that authority (mostly in the form of the gods) is cruel, petty, untrustworthy, and vicious, even more so than other contemporary versions of those myths.
That myth of Medusa being human originally is literally Roman fanfiction tho…
I fucking LOVE the Disney Aphrodite! She is so awesome and the animation on her is super impressive for TV animation.
+Amelia Blank Yeah I saw that boob jiggle too. That animator must have really had fun.
9/11 would make for an interesting episode but I think titanic and pearl Harbor episodes benefit from more hindsight. The people making 9/11 related Media lived through it while the others are often made long after the fact. Actually it might be interesting to do a comparative study on how media changes its portrayal of tragedy as we get further from the actual event.
That moment a youtuber you love comments on another youtuber you love
*screams internally* you have made my day
+The Bible Reloaded I'd be most interested in a look at all the Titanic adaptations, myself being a huge geek on the subject.
Hey it's Gugo and Cake.
Frankly, if you wanted to be a woman in the classic world, move to Persia.
Or Egypt.
Or at least Sparta. Athens was a hellhole. I'm Greek and an Athenian BTW...
Athens: Born a woman, you get treated as a slave
Sparta: Born a woman, you are made into a man so that men respect you
So yeah, Egypt and Persia would look really tempting.
Tareltonlives Spartans didn't turn women into men. They just made them tougher. A woman was respected _because_ she was a woman. She could give birth, unlike men. She could raise a child, unlike men (belief of the ancient world but it just shows you they respected women for being women). She could keep a household together while a man was away.
Spartan men treated women as an essential part of society. Spartan women were tough because Spartan society was tough.
With that said, they were forbidden from going to wars and still lacked certain rights but so did Persian and Egyptian women.
Essential as in they were in charge of all the slaves. So they were still inferior to men, but their superiority over slaves was far more pronounced than in other states.
There is never enough Lindsay. I love her videos so much.
Hem... I'm sorry, I don't usually write to rant, but as a humanities student, I had to say... Socrates never wrote anything. His "pupils" (Plato and Xenophon, for example) made him say what they understood to be his doctrine. And, well, they had different views on him, even though they knew the guy personally.
That's why, for example, Xenophon will be rather conservative towards women's role in the society, while Plato, in his "Republic" was almost feminist when you compare to what was considered normal at the time. And this book is mainly Plato's Socrates talking about the ideal city. An ideal city with warrior women, and people given a rank because of their state of mind rather than their gender (children being raised by pedagogues in common, not by their parents). Well, this republic would be an horrible totalitarian regime, but it's quite revolutionary at the time.
This is just a detail... Apart from that (and this is far more important), you nailed the difference between the greek Eros and we call love today. The Anciet Greeks ad Romans had a really complex relationship to love and sex, very, very different from ours, as you said. And yeah, Aristotle is an asshole to women. Definitely.
Aphrodite in the God of War series is one of those creative decisions that doesn't make sense for the overarching story of Kratos: His wife's ashes are literally on his skin (including his penis), so what better way to honor her memory on your quest for vengeance WHICH IS LITERALLY THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE FIRST GAME AND ENTIRE SERIES than to have sex with the goddess of love?
+Caz In a different game, perhaps Bayonetta or DMC the audaciousness of it all could have worked as a comedy moment. (especially the dualshock vibrating, christ my sides) but the game seems to want you to take the story and Kratos seriously... Somehow.
+Caz to be fair, i believe the God Of War sex scenes are meant to be ironical. They always appear way out of context and Kratos always hadles them like this one here ("No time, ahh what ever") and elements that are known to be very well done in the GOW Games are done really poorly in this scenes (like QTEs and the dialogue). I think the creators of the games are well aware of the fact, that their games are stereotypical manly games, so they integrate a scene out of a bad porn flick once in a while.... either this, or they really think that stuff makes any sense xD
+Ian Goldberg I do find it funny that Bayonetta, female video game sex symbol and all that, actually doesn't have any sex scenes. She's just here to have a good time with her friends and stop anyone who threatens that.
+Caz Everyone's fucked her (including her dad and uncles.) Kratos just wanted to be popular.
+Caz Actually it's funny you say that because when he was first cursed he was literally wearing same outfit he wears throughout the rest of the franchise. So think about those people that get tans in their underwear, and when they take off their underwear that part of their body is paler than the rest of there body. Whose to say the same isn't the same for Kratos? Therefore his dick and ass ain't actually covered with his wife and daughter's ashes. Also he avenged his family at the end of GOW1 the rest of the franchise was him raging at Zeus for not getting rid of his nightmares.
There is way less Aphrodite related stuff than I though.
Punishing men for reasons relate to sexual interest was a Diana thing but it was common for Aphrodite's mortal lovers to get terrified of the consequences of their relation when they found out who and what she is.
Actually it's Athena who did this and not even Artemis.
i fell asleep watching the playlist of your back catalog and, no shit, i dreamed a clip show.
Reminder, Hercules: The Animated Series is now on Disney+!
I vote sinking of the Titanic for the next one. I can already think of a ton of Movies/tv shows that reference it: James Cameron's movie, the movie made by the Nazis, tim Bandits, Doctor Who, Futurama, the Time tunnel etc.
+Mario Acosta-Warren Tentacolino >:3
+Mario Acosta-Warren And two or three that are actually about it.
tim Bandits telling of titanic event has always been my favorite tim has a knack for story telling. >.>
The animated films
Mario Acosta-Warren the Simpsons movie which was referencing the James Cameron movie via good Charlotte
Aphrodite had a lot of baggage from Ishtar, the Babylonian love goddess. Here's from the epic of Gligamesh: "Listen to me while I tell the tale of your lovers. There was Tammuz, the lover of your youth, for him you decreed wailing, year after year. You loved the many-coloured Lilac-breasted Roller, but still you struck and broke his wing [...] You have loved the lion tremendous in strength: seven pits you dug for him, and seven. You have loved the stallion magnificent in battle, and for him you decreed the whip and spur and a thong [...] You have loved the shepherd of the flock; he made meal-cake for you day after day, he killed kids for your sake. You struck and turned him into a wolf; now his own herd-boys chase him away, his own hounds worry his flanks."
+Valdagast True, but Ishtar's ultimately a stronger figure
Tareltonlives what about havenly aphrodite?
internet test: your Aphrodite!
me: hell yeah
also me after learning more about Aphrodite: wait a minute
"The magic of video doesn't capture... the DualShock shaking"
Speak for yourself - with that sound effect, the overwrought visuals on the timing and the quaking frame, I all but felt it in my bones.
I haven't seen to much discussed about how 911 is interpreted on screen. It's a great video idea.
Considering they're basically a bunch of warrior princesses based on the Roman (and by extension Greek) gods, I'm surprised you didn't mention the Sailor Guardians (or Scouts...whatever you prefer.)
Overall, great loose canon though! I still can't get over that theme from the Hercules TV series! XDDD
If you do another Greek Goddess, Juno/Hera would be interesting to see (and that's not just because of a certain notorious yandere character who supposedly is her reincarnation.) ^^;
I'm really glad you like the Disney Hercules show. That type of humor was some of Disney's best. And it was nice to see Aphrodite played in a more adult mentor way--making her fit into the reimagining of the gods in that universe. (I mean, Hera was the nice, respectful maternal figure!)
The only complaint I did have was that there was not even a hint of drunk Lindsay, but I see you gave her her own episode this time. Also figured out that you look drunker than you are due to the whole allergy/sneezing thing, which explains why drunk Lindsay is still so coherent (and still likeable.)
Anyways, hope you're doing well, and that you keep the intellectual content coming. I never knew that at all about Aphrodite and eros being a bad thing--it didn't come up in my Greek mythology class at all!
I guess I've bought into the modern version where you need some of each type of love in a good romantic relationship.
I cannot describe how much love I have for this series and all the work you put into it - I'm always so happy whenever I see you've uploaded a new one!
I second that Hercules the animated series was one of the best depictions of Aphrodite, however, I'm also biased cause i love the entire series and was so sad when it stopped showing.
Let's all vote for Titanic so she has to do the animated movies.
Lindsay describing the Dualshock vibrating in time with Kratos's thrusting just might be the greatest thing ever.
These are very well researched and entertaining, and based on how giggly they make you, you sem to have a lot of fun making them. Keep making wonderful videos!
Sadly, Pearl Harbor is probably not gonna be picked, which is a real shame. It's slowly becoming less 'popular' as time goes on and I woulda loved the chance for you to educate on it. Plus, we would have been able to talk about one of your faaaaaaavorite directors again.
+jseeker1867
I know you put air quotes on it, but putting Pearl Harbor and popular in the same sentence is just... blegh.
I hated those Percy Jackson films. The books are what brought me into reading and they're my favorite to this day. Aphrodite daughters in the movie partying with Grover and Grover being into it just kills me. It feels like the writers shat on the book and the characters within it. Also as a Greek mythology lover I think even if the media tried to get her right, it'd be more of a fan service type thing. Because Aphrodite was definitely not about monogamy if you know what I mean
kind of hilarious that the video game cutscene was a less entertaining "Toucha Toucha Toucha Touch Me", with the two girls spying off to the side and everything
I'd love a character study vid on Xena. That'd be awesome. Also, your channel is addicting! Wonderful content!
Kratos is the very embodiment of toxic masculinity... His arc of vengeance and revenge (which by all actuality is totally his fault) was closed and complete by the first game's end and frankly, that's where the series should have ended... With him as the protagonist anyway... Every subsequent game has just been a further descent into full-on villainy, which would be perfectly fine had they treated it as such but the sequels try so clumsily to twist the narrative in order to portray Kratos' mission as just and keep the power fantasy rolling...
And now they're thinking about bringing him back to face the Norse Gods... *sigh*
+Michael Scally
I agree with you on that. I still enjoy the GOW games for the most part but I think the problem is that Sony hasn't done the best job of creating a good variety of protagonists for their franchises like Nintendo has. IDK, it's hard to make a killer IP to keep the people coming back and it's even harder when Uncharted and GOW keep selling so well, to the point they ask themselves "What? You want us to not make any money?" It's not an easy situation.
+Levon Gevorgyan There's no such thing as capital gains tax, either. Because I said so.
+Levon Gevorgyan masculinity is a cultural construct and societal delusion, based entirely on power, authority-obsession, egotism, domination, conquest, and harming others. Therefore, the entire concept of masculinity is toxic. So I guess you'd be right, there's no such thing as "toxic masculinity," because there isn't just a PORTION of masculinity that is toxic, and another portion that isn't. Rather, the ENTIRE CONCEPT of masculinity is toxic. Male and Female exist in nature, but Masculinity and Femininity do not. They are incorrect hypothesis based on a flawed human understanding of how gender and biological sex correlate. They are made up. Pretend. A false belief, not a solid fact. The only purpose they ever served was to uphold a hierarchy, with masculinity as superior and femininity as inferior. Hence the term, "hegemonic masculinity."
+Michael Scally I feel the same way about the character. I'm not surprised another game is being made but at this point I feel the only way you can salvage the series is to design a new protagonist and give Kratos an antagonistic role. Sadly I don't think anyone on the Santa Monica team realizes how unlikable Kratos actually is now.
+Chez Lindsay Ever heard of a now on hiatus web comic called "Olympus Overdrive"? That comics interpretation of Aphrodite I found a good deal more likable than we usually get in a story. Her assigned mortal...is. goth. But not really, as her frame is too boxy for traditional female clothes. It's also worth noting that the quiz before the assigned God shows up? One of the questions is what is their favorite color? This color becomes their default skin color that only the participants of the Overdrive can see. The kind of Goth girls? Pink. I'm going to later look for the link to the exact page, but it's something you should check out.
i am sure you get comments like, "you're pretty" and the like. All i have to say is that you truly have an amazing mind.
Used to love you as Nostalgia Chick, but Loose Cannon is AMAZING beyond definition! Thank you so much!
Man... young Uma Thurman was super hot.
But young Karl Urban, on the other hand, that's a whole 'nother story XD
The man pops up everywhere in the dark voids unfilled by other B-list actors.
keep up the good work Lindsay.
I wonder if Ishtar had any influence on portrayals of Aphrodite, or vice versa.
Overly Sarcastic Productions has a video going in on her actual mythology and how she relates to Ishtar
You know if you ever bring this show back, you should consider doing a loose cannon with Norse gods. Considering how many versions of Thor and Loki there are in the media you would have a lot of fun picking apart shows like The Almighty Johnsons, Thor, the new God of War and even Hercules the Animated serries. Think about it, Vince Vaughn as Loki, it's a good mine.
I started watching the Hercules animated series bc of you Lindsay. Thanks for the heads up, it's soooooo good
I always thought of Aphrodite as my favorite goddess. :)
You forgot Godess Girls, loved those books as a kid and she was my favorite character
Alexander Tydings from Hercules and Xena will always be my fave!
I can't wait for the next Loose Canon! A+ as always Lindsay!
There's so much to explore with the concept of a female goddess of love and sex that it's really such a shame how rarely she comes up as a character in media.
There was an episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch that her. I don't remember much but that she had the story of everyone's love lives arranged as romance novels on a bookshelf. I just really liked that concept but it's fine you didn't mention it. I'm sure there have been way more mentions of her than Hades.
Speaking of which... ever think about an update on the Wicked Witch and Hades? We have them both on OUAT and--- well--- yeah.
Seeing you, an American lady, reference Kylie brought me so much joy!
Lindsay: *edits in GoW Aphrodite*
Me: *gets a headache*
*sigh* videogames... Why.
You are my Venus, Lindsay.
To be fair, we have no way of knowing if Socrates actually said that or if that's just Plato making shit up.
Aphrodite's intro music in Disney's Hercules was the best thing ever.
Lindsay, I'm a long-time fan of yours and I love most everything you do. But you really need to treat the subject of Classical literature/culture/mythology with greater respect. While it's obvious that the Ancient Greeks' views on women wouldn't fly in the modern West, saying that they considered women "sub-human" is grossly inaccurate and frankly pretty insulting. It overlooks the fact that they had greater female representation in their stories than any other ancient culture arguably until the Renaissance; they were, to my knowledge, the first culture to celebrate a female writer (Sappho) and later in time a female mathematician (Hypatia), they had numerous female gods including super-deities like Gaia and Rhea who predate (historically and diegetically) the traditional pantheon; they had tragedies and novels with female protagonists; and their stories, as far back as the Odyssey itself, are stocked with important and authoritative female characters.
Do Penelope, Medea, Antigone and Calliroe really strike you as "sub-human" in any way? Have you read the plays by Euripides, in which he has his female protagonist say: "Of all creatures that can feel and think, we women are the worst treated things alive. First at an exorbitant price we must buy a husband and master of our bodies. And the outcome of our life's striving hangs on this, whether we take a bad or a good husband. For divorce is discreditable for women and it is not possible to refuse wedlock. A man, whenever he is annoyed with the company of those in the house, goes elsewhere and thus rids his soul of its boredom. But we must fix our gaze on one person only."
Your mis-quoting of the Greek philosophers is particularly unfortunate. I'd love to know where the Socrates quote comes from, since (like Buddha and Jesus) the man never wrote a word. I Googled that phrase and was linked to a book called "The Lost Apostle", which doesn't actually quote Socrates directly. Aristotle's words look very different when quoted in full: "The evil showed itself in the Theban invasion, when, *unlike the women in the other cities*, they were utterly useless and caused more confusion than the enemy." And I seem to recall that Plato argued women should be part of the ruling class of his Republic. Did these philosophers consider women as by and large inferior to men? Yes, definitely. But "sub-human" or "objects" (the way, eg. that women are treated in the Bible) most certainly not, and their views were miles more progressive than... well, than anyone in the West, again, until more or less the 1700s.
You're a great critic of modern and pop culture, Lindsay. But Classicism is a complex topic which you clearly do not master, and you should either properly research your sources, or else just state a disclaimer like "I'm going to gloss over the ancient representations as I'm not an expert". Especially because you gloss anyway (a whole video on Aphrodite and not a single mention of the Iliad, the Aeneid and the Metamorphoses?).
Warmly,
A fan.
Well I mean she was in Class of The Titans, an animated show mostly run in Canada, and she was pretty funny. Figured it wouldn't be in here, but I did sort of hope maybe you would touch on it
+erin mitchell I did look at it but it got cut.
+Chez Lindsay ah that's a shame but then again can only have so much in one episode
***** yeah same, sure it had its fair share of flaws but it was still a good show
+erin mitchell does it run on the same channel Clone High did?
I believe it did yes
Imagine being not being able to control yourself around women, blaming your animalistic behavior on them, and then calling THEM the animal child.
Ah yes, the goddess of shipping.
She has her OTPs.
And she's manning the canons.
One of the few Myths I can think of that showed Aphrodite's personality was the tale of Eros and Psyche, where she couldn't stand the thought of someone else could be prettier than her.