I had never seen a clip of a rugby game until I was 17 years old (2007). I've been jumping through hoops since then to watch and play as much rugby as I can and let me tell you, it is not easy. I remember re-watching the same videos on TH-cam and other pro teams self hosted websites. I'd re-watch them all night for MONTHS because there was NOTHING else to watch. No TV coverage whatsoever and nobody you've ever known has heard of it or much less watched it. Emergence of TH-cam and the internet has made it easier to be engaged with Rugby when there is absolutely nothing happening around you related to Rugby. Our fall cup games were just cancelled because most of the other teams in the cup couldn't even field a full team and the other big cups are also struggling and most likely will be cancelled.
Excellent video. Grassroots has definitely been struggling, especially in the lower mainland. Smaller clubs cannot field two teams, so talented players get held back and developing players get only nominal game time. Club mergers seem to end in disaster, with the resulting club generally withering down to the same low numbers as each individual club before. Larger more successful clubs recruit international talent with offers of jobs and free housing, making a ceiling for local players that's often hard to break. The lack of a true beer-league level (our 3rd division is stacked with highly skilled competitive teams) discourages older players from staying in the game and sharing their experience. The amount of young talent we squander is disgraceful.
Thanks for the additional info! I really hope Canadian rugby can turn itself around, because they were one of my favourite World Cup underdogs growing up
07 World Cup, Canada were unlucky to lose to Fiji, I’m Fijian but I thought they got robbed. 2011 they beat a good Tongan team, the same Tonga that beat France. They had shown promise against the All Blacks that year too. They had some genuinely good players. 2013, they beat Fiji in the PNC. Just when it seemed like they were coming up, it all just fell apart from 2014 onwards. A lack of games against quality opposition probably hurts them too. Now it seems like the South American teams like Chile and Uruguay are the ones coming up in rugby.
Capped 16 times for Canada between 2004 and 2007. Now I sit on the sidelines and talk about the good old days when we beat Japan to win the "Super Powers Cup" (2005 or 2006 I think), we beat the US 4 of the 4 times we played them in that period. In around 2007 rugby Canada shut down the centralized elite development academy the "Pacific Pride". At the time probably 60% of the Canadian team were alumni of that program. It was part of a multi sport "Comonwealth center for sport development". Rugby Canada wanted this program under its control rather then under the CCSD, so they shut it down. The last of the Pacific Pride grads retired from the national team around 2015. The start of the dark years. That one move, more then any other single decision caused the drop in the mens 15 team. There were other bone-headed moves. At one time the BC provincial union limited the number of domestic international that club teams could field to 2 or 3, meanimg capped internationals had to sit on the bench for their club teams to fufill a stupid quota rule. Recently I thought the the return of the Pacific Pride, and the now dead Arrows were positive signs for the Canadian game...but I guess we'll see. Geez I really am one of the old boys now, telling the world how it was all better back in my day!
@@fg7397 That’s a crazy story, thanks for sharing! It’s shocking to me that a union shut down a proven player development scheme just because they wanted to be in control of it, but I agree that’s one of the biggest examples of mismanagement at rugby Canada
I really liked the video!!! I think that loosing the America´s Rugby Championship (Arg XV, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Uruguay and USA) had a significant impact. I was not the flashiest competition, but it provided good similar level challenges.
I have played grass roots Canadian rugby since in was 8 and am now 30 years old every decision made by our countries rugby management has made things progressively worse we now have less players playing less games in less places. therefore a smaller pool of players to pick from and less new athletes joining the sport leading to poaching from other nations to fill voids in homegrown talent and further diminishment of possible game minutes for new players who are competing for spots with better players from countries with higher standards of play who are only at our clubs temporarily. I am hopeful but without drastic change soon we will never regain what we have lost in my opinion.
I know Kindsley well, having paying against him and with him in the Welsh professional league. He is a smart coach with a huge depth of knowledge beyond most people’s comprehension. He can also be an amazing motivator, the best captain I’ve had the privilege to play with. He can’t defend himself on here, but as a Welsh Canadian, I can tell you that his pool of playing and coaching talent is so thin, it’s see through. He’s got the toughest coaching job in the world, and I don’t think many others would want it. Canada Rugby needs massive investment, not a charity whip round. It needs two pro teams, one in the east and one in the west, and the game will grow, slowly at first, but it will grow as young men have positive role models.
Just wondering after reading the stradegic plan and watching your vid... there is no mention of rugby at the grass roots level ie how they plan to get it into the elementary schools highschools and have those players transition to club rugby and from club to regional to provincial to professional then to national. I see clubs barely surviving because of lack of players when some clubs back in the day ran 3 sides 1st 2nd and 3rds plus juniors. Now they run just a 1st. where are the 18 19 year olds expected to play... 1st div or Premiership? not a good a pathway. Grass roots should be the focus.
@@georgec2470 A very Good Point and something that a lot of rugby unions conveniently leave out when they make strategic plans. It seems to me that Rugby Canada is desperate to make a quick fix for the men’s national team, but I fail to see any logic in their methods to get there.
Have 2 French Top 14 teams play in Montreal each year. That said I think Canada have been hollowed out too much for big gestures to work. And they've just had PNC and WXV1 and neither had a huge amount of bums on seats.
Chiles doing everything right everybody slept on them and they have a class 10 and 15 just need forwards that can get them clean ball against tier 1-2 teams
Very good. However. So many people commentate on this topic all over social media. Ever spoken to someone who has brought players through the mini and youth system and learned the specifics of the failure? I have. I know exectly where the specific issues are. 2027 is a write off btw. 2031 is becoming a lofty goal. There are major black holes (as I call them).
@@malcolmknox5519 That’s a very good point and probably one of the biggest issues for Canadian rugby; outsiders don’t know what the problems within the union are. Even researching this video, I couldn’t find many articles that properly addressed the decline of Canadian rugby (Reddit and TH-cam comments was the best I could manage). Most of them just highlighted that there’s a divide between the men’s and women’s team
@@Shendersonsports3003 feel free to contact me for specifics. A clue: let's take 2031....the players that will be of age then...put yourself in their shoes today and examine the pathway in behavioural terms.
No wonder the higher-ups were clueless for scrapping the structures already made in place by Crowley, at least the Glasgow Warriors official is doing something to fix the mens team. And they're better off cutting ties with Kingsley Jones for starters.
Canada have produced some good players and added something to every world cup they've played in so was a big shame to see them not make the last one. Sounds like a long way back for them now but think at the very least they will make the next world cup thanks to expansion and with the right coaching support maybe that will be a proper restart point
As someone who knowns multiple former team Canada players. I also have played rugby at a high level here in Canada at the collegiate level. We have a few barriers that I think are difficult to break past. First is the grassroots pipeline from youth to adult player's. The jump from playing as a high school athlete being likely under 18 to moving to senior rugby is incredibly jarring. This is because senior athletes are often significantly bigger and the level of player has higher levels of aggression. This leads to many players failing to make the transition to senior rugby. My province is attempting to rectify this with introducing U21 teams that play against collegiate teams, which hopefully will help. The second issue we have is competition with American Football. Contact sports are not for everyone thus there is a small pool of people interested in playing them. In Canada top athletes who are interested in contact team sports are more likely to be drawn to American Football over Rugby. My university's Rugby team generally only has friends and family in attendance of our Rugby matches yet will fill the stadium for our football games. It can be a very easy choice for young athletes to pick the more popular sport. The third issue we have is lack of interest. Our country lacks density compared to other nations, meaning that costs associated with play is higher. During my club season we routinely make trips of 5+ hrs to play some clubs. It's hard to create profitable teams when interest in the sport is minimal here in Canada. The MLR can find success as the USA is significantly more dense than Canada. Only the Toronto region has the density to support a MLR team and that team has shut down. Honestly Rugby is dying at the grassroots area with many clubs that used to field three club teams only fielding one per year. This has a compounding effect on the first issue I mentioned as new players often don't have a development team to play for and thus are thrown in with players of 10+ more years of experience.
Thank you for making this video. I've been a rugby fan in Canada since the first World Cup, and I've watched the Canadian Rugby Union => Rugby Canada try as hard as it can to flush itself down the toilet for the last 30 years. It's a bloody embarrassment.
Yet the women are ranked second in the world. They beat the Black Ferns recently and ran the Red Roses close. Is it because so many of the players ply heir trade in Europe in the PWR and the French Femme Elite? Or is it something else?
@@neill392 A very Good question and something that makes the continuous decline all the more strange.. the lack of male players in pro European leagues certainly doesn’t help
Start by having Rugby on TV, I could not watch the last series. That requires money, get a sponsor on a long term agreement, which includes club rugby because unlike the top countries, rugga is play fiercely at school, distances are simply too big and costly. We don’t need 5 channels with hockey while a rugga tournament is played, just support the sport.
Yeah it’s strange how strong the women’s team has become, despite limited resources. Probably because they’ve grown it organically and funded it in the right areas, which isn’t the case for the men’s team
Ironically it is because Rugby Canada did less for the women and didn't get in their way. Players were allowed to grow and play for club and province. Then go to the national team. Like men's rugby circa 1991. Whereas men had to move to Timbuktu. It's like requiring a promising British player to move to Azerbaijan with no pay. Madness.
Western countries, like Canada, invested more money in women’s sport than other countries. As little as the women think they’re getting, it’s far more than the ladies in most other countries. That’s why they’ve done so well in comparison.
@@benjaminlatta5784 If only they left the original structures in place for the men right when they've had something going before regression in the mid-2010s.
The unisex political entity Rugby, Canada has undermined the men's game. The WOKEwomen's game is growing out of the dead carcass of men's rugby....young male talent aren't attracted to mediocrity and androgenic silliness
Bad take. I am a young male rugby player in Canada and I am proud and excited to see Canada do well on both the men’s and women’s side. getting the silver at the olympics and being a big force in 15s are big achievements and I think everyone is hyped for the women’s results.
I had never seen a clip of a rugby game until I was 17 years old (2007). I've been jumping through hoops since then to watch and play as much rugby as I can and let me tell you, it is not easy. I remember re-watching the same videos on TH-cam and other pro teams self hosted websites. I'd re-watch them all night for MONTHS because there was NOTHING else to watch. No TV coverage whatsoever and nobody you've ever known has heard of it or much less watched it.
Emergence of TH-cam and the internet has made it easier to be engaged with Rugby when there is absolutely nothing happening around you related to Rugby. Our fall cup games were just cancelled because most of the other teams in the cup couldn't even field a full team and the other big cups are also struggling and most likely will be cancelled.
No TV coverage? Where do you live?
Hun rugby is for real strong man and if you didn’t start playing rugby at 6 years old do not try it at you teenager time you’re gonna make it.😳
@@hopeaguero7460 I know a lot of people who have taken up rugby in university.
Excellent video. Grassroots has definitely been struggling, especially in the lower mainland. Smaller clubs cannot field two teams, so talented players get held back and developing players get only nominal game time. Club mergers seem to end in disaster, with the resulting club generally withering down to the same low numbers as each individual club before. Larger more successful clubs recruit international talent with offers of jobs and free housing, making a ceiling for local players that's often hard to break. The lack of a true beer-league level (our 3rd division is stacked with highly skilled competitive teams) discourages older players from staying in the game and sharing their experience. The amount of young talent we squander is disgraceful.
Thanks for the additional info! I really hope Canadian rugby can turn itself around, because they were one of my favourite World Cup underdogs growing up
Who wants to Fundraise and start Stade Montreal as an MLR Franchise?
@@AdamM7796 count me in 👋🏻
@@AdamM7796 Montreal, Toronto returning, Halifax and especially Vancouver would really help alot with Canadian rugby.
07 World Cup, Canada were unlucky to lose to Fiji, I’m Fijian but I thought they got robbed. 2011 they beat a good Tongan team, the same Tonga that beat France. They had shown promise against the All Blacks that year too. They had some genuinely good players. 2013, they beat Fiji in the PNC. Just when it seemed like they were coming up, it all just fell apart from 2014 onwards. A lack of games against quality opposition probably hurts them too. Now it seems like the South American teams like Chile and Uruguay are the ones coming up in rugby.
Capped 16 times for Canada between 2004 and 2007. Now I sit on the sidelines and talk about the good old days when we beat Japan to win the "Super Powers Cup" (2005 or 2006 I think), we beat the US 4 of the 4 times we played them in that period.
In around 2007 rugby Canada shut down the centralized elite development academy the "Pacific Pride". At the time probably 60% of the Canadian team were alumni of that program. It was part of a multi sport "Comonwealth center for sport development". Rugby Canada wanted this program under its control rather then under the CCSD, so they shut it down. The last of the Pacific Pride grads retired from the national team around 2015. The start of the dark years. That one move, more then any other single decision caused the drop in the mens 15 team.
There were other bone-headed moves. At one time the BC provincial union limited the number of domestic international that club teams could field to 2 or 3, meanimg capped internationals had to sit on the bench for their club teams to fufill a stupid quota rule.
Recently I thought the the return of the Pacific Pride, and the now dead Arrows were positive signs for the Canadian game...but I guess we'll see.
Geez I really am one of the old boys now, telling the world how it was all better back in my day!
@@fg7397 That’s a crazy story, thanks for sharing!
It’s shocking to me that a union shut down a proven player development scheme just because they wanted to be in control of it, but I agree that’s one of the biggest examples of mismanagement at rugby Canada
Great Insight Forrest!
Good thing we have the women who are Olympic Silver medalists in 7s and ranked #2 in 15s.
I really liked the video!!!
I think that loosing the America´s Rugby Championship (Arg XV, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Uruguay and USA) had a significant impact. I was not the flashiest competition, but it provided good similar level challenges.
Really well researched video 👍 exactly the kind of tier 2 rugby analysis content I’ve been looking for
@@ds-cx5yo thanks for watching! I’m hoping to have more Tier 2 vids uploaded soon
Interesting video mate. Thanks 👏🏼
Toronto to Langford is 2,734 Miles🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿😂😂😂😂😂
Cool video and very informative! Enjoyed it a lot. I too would love to see a more competitive Canada.
I have played grass roots Canadian rugby since in was 8 and am now 30 years old every decision made by our countries rugby management has made things progressively worse we now have less players playing less games in less places. therefore a smaller pool of players to pick from and less new athletes joining the sport leading to poaching from other nations to fill voids in homegrown talent and further diminishment of possible game minutes for new players who are competing for spots with better players from countries with higher standards of play who are only at our clubs temporarily. I am hopeful but without drastic change soon we will never regain what we have lost in my opinion.
I know Kindsley well, having paying against him and with him in the Welsh professional league. He is a smart coach with a huge depth of knowledge beyond most people’s comprehension. He can also be an amazing motivator, the best captain I’ve had the privilege to play with. He can’t defend himself on here, but as a Welsh Canadian, I can tell you that his pool of playing and coaching talent is so thin, it’s see through. He’s got the toughest coaching job in the world, and I don’t think many others would want it. Canada Rugby needs massive investment, not a charity whip round. It needs two pro teams, one in the east and one in the west, and the game will grow, slowly at first, but it will grow as young men have positive role models.
Just wondering after reading the stradegic plan and watching your vid... there is no mention of rugby at the grass roots level ie how they plan to get it into the elementary schools highschools and have those players transition to club rugby and from club to regional to provincial to professional then to national. I see clubs barely surviving because of lack of players when some clubs back in the day ran 3 sides 1st 2nd and 3rds plus juniors. Now they run just a 1st. where are the 18 19 year olds expected to play... 1st div or Premiership? not a good a pathway. Grass roots should be the focus.
@@georgec2470 A very Good Point and something that a lot of rugby unions conveniently leave out when they make strategic plans.
It seems to me that Rugby Canada is desperate to make a quick fix for the men’s national team, but I fail to see any logic in their methods to get there.
Can’t see any way that Rugby Canada is climbing 12 world ranking spots in 3 years.
Neither can I, I think that goal is a bridge too far from their current position as a team
Have 2 French Top 14 teams play in Montreal each year. That said I think Canada have been hollowed out too much for big gestures to work. And they've just had PNC and WXV1 and neither had a huge amount of bums on seats.
Well done.
Great video. Some really great content here
@@jimfletcher789 thanks for watching!
Chiles doing everything right everybody slept on them and they have a class 10 and 15 just need forwards that can get them clean ball against tier 1-2 teams
Very good. However. So many people commentate on this topic all over social media. Ever spoken to someone who has brought players through the mini and youth system and learned the specifics of the failure? I have. I know exectly where the specific issues are. 2027 is a write off btw. 2031 is becoming a lofty goal. There are major black holes (as I call them).
@@malcolmknox5519 That’s a very good point and probably one of the biggest issues for Canadian rugby; outsiders don’t know what the problems within the union are.
Even researching this video, I couldn’t find many articles that properly addressed the decline of Canadian rugby (Reddit and TH-cam comments was the best I could manage). Most of them just highlighted that there’s a divide between the men’s and women’s team
@@Shendersonsports3003 feel free to contact me for specifics. A clue: let's take 2031....the players that will be of age then...put yourself in their shoes today and examine the pathway in behavioural terms.
No wonder the higher-ups were clueless for scrapping the structures already made in place by Crowley, at least the Glasgow Warriors official is doing something to fix the mens team. And they're better off cutting ties with Kingsley Jones for starters.
@@Samizouza cutting ties with Kingsley Jones is a must! As Squidge rugby Said, his tactics are at least 10 years behind everyone else
@@Shendersonsports3003 Saw that video too and he's right
Canada have produced some good players and added something to every world cup they've played in so was a big shame to see them not make the last one. Sounds like a long way back for them now but think at the very least they will make the next world cup thanks to expansion and with the right coaching support maybe that will be a proper restart point
@@Bucklund fully agreed! I think once they’ve got a new coach, then things will turn in their favour
As someone who knowns multiple former team Canada players. I also have played rugby at a high level here in Canada at the collegiate level.
We have a few barriers that I think are difficult to break past.
First is the grassroots pipeline from youth to adult player's. The jump from playing as a high school athlete being likely under 18 to moving to senior rugby is incredibly jarring. This is because senior athletes are often significantly bigger and the level of player has higher levels of aggression. This leads to many players failing to make the transition to senior rugby. My province is attempting to rectify this with introducing U21 teams that play against collegiate teams, which hopefully will help.
The second issue we have is competition with American Football. Contact sports are not for everyone thus there is a small pool of people interested in playing them. In Canada top athletes who are interested in contact team sports are more likely to be drawn to American Football over Rugby. My university's Rugby team generally only has friends and family in attendance of our Rugby matches yet will fill the stadium for our football games. It can be a very easy choice for young athletes to pick the more popular sport.
The third issue we have is lack of interest. Our country lacks density compared to other nations, meaning that costs associated with play is higher. During my club season we routinely make trips of 5+ hrs to play some clubs. It's hard to create profitable teams when interest in the sport is minimal here in Canada. The MLR can find success as the USA is significantly more dense than Canada. Only the Toronto region has the density to support a MLR team and that team has shut down.
Honestly Rugby is dying at the grassroots area with many clubs that used to field three club teams only fielding one per year. This has a compounding effect on the first issue I mentioned as new players often don't have a development team to play for and thus are thrown in with players of 10+ more years of experience.
Thank you for making this video. I've been a rugby fan in Canada since the first World Cup, and I've watched the Canadian Rugby Union => Rugby Canada try as hard as it can to flush itself down the toilet for the last 30 years. It's a bloody embarrassment.
Yet the women are ranked second in the world. They beat the Black Ferns recently and ran the Red Roses close.
Is it because so many of the players ply heir trade in Europe in the PWR and the French Femme Elite? Or is it something else?
@@neill392 A very Good question and something that makes the continuous decline all the more strange.. the lack of male players in pro European leagues certainly doesn’t help
Start by having Rugby on TV, I could not watch the last series. That requires money, get a sponsor on a long term agreement, which includes club rugby because unlike the top countries, rugga is play fiercely at school, distances are simply too big and costly. We don’t need 5 channels with hockey while a rugga tournament is played, just support the sport.
Doomed is an understatement.
Canada's women's team is second in the world
You mean the Canadian senior mens is doomed?
Cause the Canadian women’s is killing it and improving with every test match.😊
@@josephatalifo4635 yeah, they’re absolutely killing it! The more they progress, the weirder it is that the men regress
Have you heard of rugby league?
US rugby isn't that much better
@@abelrosas2736 agreed, North American rugby on a whole is struggling
I mean, they have 12 pro teams and Canada has 0 so there's that
@@andrewmuir3302 Now we know what you mean.
During the last 20 yrs the women's game has grown by leaps and bounds. Wierd.
Yeah it’s strange how strong the women’s team has become, despite limited resources. Probably because they’ve grown it organically and funded it in the right areas, which isn’t the case for the men’s team
Ironically it is because Rugby Canada did less for the women and didn't get in their way. Players were allowed to grow and play for club and province. Then go to the national team. Like men's rugby circa 1991. Whereas men had to move to Timbuktu. It's like requiring a promising British player to move to Azerbaijan with no pay. Madness.
Western countries, like Canada, invested more money in women’s sport than other countries. As little as the women think they’re getting, it’s far more than the ladies in most other countries. That’s why they’ve done so well in comparison.
@@benjaminlatta5784 If only they left the original structures in place for the men right when they've had something going before regression in the mid-2010s.
The unisex political entity Rugby, Canada has undermined the men's game. The WOKEwomen's game is growing out of the dead carcass of men's rugby....young male talent aren't attracted to mediocrity and androgenic silliness
Bad take. I am a young male rugby player in Canada and I am proud and excited to see Canada do well on both the men’s and women’s side. getting the silver at the olympics and being a big force in 15s are big achievements and I think everyone is hyped for the women’s results.
You have worms for brains
@@williamordeman6005. People who use the word “Woke” without understanding the meaning are not worth responding to……
@@ds-cx5yo. Some talk to hear themselves talk without meaning or purpose🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️