Boxers Guard vs Bareknuckle Guard
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2012
- www.OldStyleMuayThai.com
This video shows the difference between holding the modern boxers guard and the bareknuckle guard.
Both have their place in striking but the ring is different than the street.
Shawn and I will show you some of those differences, so watch and learn how to do it right.
So go grab a training partner and prove it to yourself. - กีฬา
Two things I'm taking away from this:
1. MMA fighters should use a more open stance for their hands
2. boxers who want to maximize their ability to defend themselves on the street should focus more on slipping not blocking
Hey DoomRater, blocking is still a viable option but you must be able to use your block as a strike when fighting at close quarters on the street. I will be putting out a series of videos on this concept soon, so stay tuned.
The bare-knuckle style is helping my own style evolve right now. I really appreciate you and Combat Conditioning putting out the info.
Hey MrRanko2, I believe there is a big difference between fighting with or without gloves. Most don't understand the difference until they're shown the difference. As far as footwork is concerned try fighting on an uneven surface with cracks, gravel, loose dust or dirt and in the dark with dim lighting with dress or casual shoes on and see how your footwork does. Again there is a big difference fighting on a flat canvas surface in boxing shoes.
I like a offensive defense. In other words punch blocking, chop blocking, barring, basically attacking the strike!
Its pretty obvious to me. If you keep a wide guard it helps protect from someone getting right up on top of you or slipping in and smashing you. The guard is meant to keep people out and make it harder to launch an attack.
This video was really interesting , thank you for sharing your knowledge !
footwork is the best kind of defence which is why i prefer boxing to muay thai, muay thai stand upright and cover up with big gloves , some boxers use big glove defence but most the best dont rely on it even someone like tysons whos hands are high is avidly moving his head he isnt letting ppl punch at his guard boxing is the art of hiting without getting hit and thats why in a bareknuckle fighht or mma fighting people learn boxing for there hands
Thank you so much Sir this was really revealing. Being a boxer my-self I have, most fortunately, not been in a street fight for 2 decades, but, If I will this guard will keep me on my feet and the other...well, I weigh 270 with almost 30 years of boxing experience..Again...thank you Sir
You're very welcome Thaulopi, and thank you for being opened minded. Many in the boxing game with less experience are not as open to what I teach as you are.
Your welcome Primal Punch, your stick and punch conditioning drills are awesome and I really appreciate them as well as your other videos.
very interesting video! I myself have only trained in boxing and it's a breath of fresh air finding your video on bare knuckle pugilism.
I've seen different boxers play with different guard stances and the distance between their hands and their face is different. Also you don't have to necessarily block an incoming punch you can just evade it and counter. The risk of being hit with a hook increases as your hands move down and away from your face.
I'm very glad that you can see the use for the bareknuckle guard.
Take care.
Daniel~
Thanks Primal Punch glad you liked it.
Glad you liked it.
Thank You for your comment MaanMat, and your insight.
Thanks Slade, looks like I'll need to make a video on that subject. Stay tuned.
Most MMA fighters have the same flaw, they train like boxers. Don't forget boxing doesn't have to worry about elbows, knees, kicks, takedowns, throws etc...there is only one style of punching that addresses this and that's bareknuckle boxing or as it was called pugilism. In pugilism you dealt with clinching, throws, takedowns, kicks, head butts, biting, eye gouging, and punching, kinda like what MMA fighters do today. Modern boxing doesn't address these things, it's very limited in scope.
Looks extremely similar to Karate, Kung fu, and other eastern arts way of using your hands to stop a punch.Great stuff!
thanks coach daniel. i am teaching my boxers to lead with the front shoulder between the rivals arms and at long distance they do not need to stick their gloves to the face. we use this stance only at close distance.
gosh I feel better after seeing this. the place I'm training at keeps telling me to keep my guard close instead of keeping my hands 'out' there. then again I'm learning with beginners in a new school, need to learn their basics.
Bareknuckle boxing is alot different than gloved boxing. You can grab, pull, push, chop, rip etc... Also tactics are alot different. As for Floyd he could cause more damage once he conditioned his fist for barefisted striking. Imagine knowing how to harden your knuckles to be able to cut your opponent with them or being able to pop your knuckles out like a pair of brass knuckles, this type of conditioning would only make sense if you train for striking barefisted.
Great rebuttal.Have a nice life, yourself.
Awesome! Pearls, man, pearls for sure. Thank you for sharing.
I have, love your videos! Keep em coming!
well.
Streetfight defense: Out of range or Helmetguard
Thanks for the comment.
I like it Henry, I've been doing it that way since 1992, as a matter of fact I made a video with a partner of mine years ago called "Urban Self Defense" where we teach how to do that. It works well for close combat.
Daniel~
That means a lot to me, thank you, sir!
it it possible to show the stance face forward so we see what it looks like....thank you
Dude all of those things the surface the gravel etc effect every stance and anything in general boxing stance is the best for balance there is a reason now as mma is evolving the striking styles are more boxing centric meaning mainly punch combos and maybe a kick on the end of it , the movement and footwork is the best defence and allows you to counter and pot shot i think you should bring in some good boxers or mma Fighters i would like to see this barefisted muaythai style of yours in action
You can't tell me that hitting barefists and forearms and hitting competion gloves is the same! I realize that gloves are for fist protection but you have to realize that striking bareknuckle is alot different than fighting with gloves on no matter what size they are. Try sparring without gloves on and I guarantee you'll be fighting differently. By the way I have other videos that go into other types of gloves that are used for striking check them out.
great video thanks for the info
Hey Crew5150, just keep the lead hand out, and when they go to grab on it, hit em with the other hand! Or when they pull you in from grabbing the lead arm, you can elbow, palm heel, forearm strike or hook to the head.
Thanks Carlos.
Very true Nikoszzn, very true.
Well explained Coach! ... What do you thing about this elbow guard used in KFM:, like the one that you put your hands around your neck and your elbows projected forward?
Very true cwmyr, most fighters never really learn how to move their heads, if only they would take a chance and try lowering their hands and start moving the head more in training.
Awesome Vid Mr. Sobrano. I think it is always good to be adaptive. This is the only vid of yours I've seen so far so apologies if you have already been asked this already. What are your thoughts on 52 Hand Blocks used in Bare knuckle environments? It has its roots in street fighting as well.
I like many aspects of 52 Hand Blocks, but I think they do too much movement before they strike. Like Bruce Lee said "Economy of Motion", so sometimes less is better. Like any system if it becomes too symmetrical it is easy to counter but if it's asymmetrical it puts the opponent on the defensive due to it's unpredictability.
Awesomeness. Thanks for the reply
Hi, I'm a Wing Chun instructor and also investigating about bare knuckle boxing. I think main difference between twoo guards is that in wing chun we stand in a totally frontal stance. There are really interesting similarities between the two systems. Some believe that old boxing influenced in development of wing chun: in mids 1800 there were the 2 opium wars and british army was at the same place and moment in wich wing chun appeared. Congratulations for your vids.
Just start out slowly Sam, train with 16 oz gloves. Shadow box a few rounds in front of a mirror to get use to moving and striking with the gloves on.
You start out slow, striking the body to get use to impact with a partner. You can use MMA type gloves or hand wraps if you like. Just go about 40% and adjust the percentage as you and your partner get more conditioned. In multiple opponent training what you really need to learn is to just strike enough to get away, in other words don't fight them, run away from them as soon as you can. As far as beginning sparring, go slow and have a purpose or a reason to spar.
I'm dealing with the opposite. Started sparring, not used to gloves.. Can't seem to get em
Sir, what is your opinion on using the "Jeet Kune Do" gloves popularized by Bruce Lee for bare knuckle sparring?
Nothing wrong with learning both ways, or keeping one arm close and the other farther away. Experiment and see what works for you. Remember after you learn the basic way-hands close to face, you can then find what fits for you. And don't forget to move the head!
Your very welcome.
I agree the vertical fist is about 37% smaller in getting through and gloves give false security in training bare fisted. I disagree in the arm extended guard and did a vid on my channel showing it is not as fast as the face guard. Getting your fists pushed in your face is because a person is relaxed. Don't relax, keep your muscles taut and that won't happen. You'll be able to block faster with taut muscles and your foreams can take a punch much better. There are other reasons not to extend arm.
whats the diffrence between wing chin s guard and bareknuckles guard?
in the bareknuckle guard do you still protect your chin with your left shoulder? and can you still apply shoulder roll defence?
You can if you like and as far as the shoulder roll it also can be used. With your arms extended it makes it harder to get hit in the face, plus you can counter off a block very easily and your lead arm is half way extended so you can strike quicker.
Thanks for the knowledge and reply!
Wouldn't having your arms out in boxing be good too? Im not boxer so correct me if Im wrong. But even with boxing gloves on, a good couple round feeling the shock of the punches when blocked would over time add up and wouldn't you get fatigued? Im in a Korean Martial Art called Soo Bahk Do and I always keep my arms out in a bare knuckle fashion. Works real well most of the time.
Yes it would be good for boxers also but not too far out as they would be wearing gloves.
Thanks BareFisted. :)
Those are nice to train with especially when fighting hard with your partner. Just don't forget to wear a mouthpiece and head gear and also a cup!
thnx for your reply.is the way of executing a punch the same in both guards?
Thanks a lot.
You're very welcome, and yes the prickly defense. =0)
BOXING WITHOUT GLOVES INFO PRETTY GOOD.
Looks like an old school boxer guard, John Sullivan style. My guard looks a lot like what you've demonstrated, but I keep my elbows on my ribs- a little closer than shown.
Too close to my face and what you're showing here happens. I hit myself with my own fists.
Too far away and I feel it messing with my head movement. Plus I'm afraid it would give a grappler something to grab.
Hey Swordcollection, try keeping your guard lower or roll your shoulders downward and you'll be able to move your head very easily. Also if a grappler grabs one of your arms, especially by the wrist or lower forearm you can punch him with the other fist. A high guard makes it easier for a grappler to take you down, but not so with a low guard. As far as your guard is concerned experiment with a guard somewhere midway between the other two, not so close or not too far.
BareFisted
I also notice keeping the leading hand farther away seems optimal for distance-creating jabs and baiting someone in.
I had a real hard time with this very tall slugger with real long arms. Very poor form, but all he needed to do was throw his fists around whenever I got in range. I had much poorer head movement and only used the peek-a-boo stance, but now I figure baiting him in, leaning/sliding back out of his range 3-4 times to wear him out and then slipping in his pockets would have been the way to go.
swordcollection
learn to use a falling step and you will be able to throw jolts instead of jabs,you throw less and its more effective and powerfull
swordcollection I wouldn't tend to throw any jabs in bare knuckle fighting, they are not powerful enough and you don't fight as long as you do in boxing. It's a different tactic. And certainly not in a street fight. You need your opponent dropped fast and hard. I was always taught to throw very fast straight punches, some call them piston punches where you hit square. More often than not you can down a guy with a couple of those. I use those as my range finders, I fight southpaw, though I am right handed and punch harder with my right, so people expect a soft front punch, but it tends to get the job done. I've had a few fights where I'm 'range finding' and the guy has just dropped after one or two punches from using a decent straight punch. But it's all in the footwork, the way you move your hips and timing.
Your welcome Mickey.
It kinda does look like it.
i box and i hold my hands diagonally aswell thers no one particular way to box i watched so many boxers and there stance foot postioning, hand positioning, movement timing everything is different thats why when people make this vs boxing videos and they got someone doinb a poor representation of the tools in boxing its really annoying , in boxing we use foot work to avoid punches i do abit of mma aswell so i use small gloves and you can fit punches through any guard.
the problem with the barknuckle guard is that you almost have zero range to gather force from, so you would have to pull ur hands back and then forward to hit hard.
Learn to drop step, shift and drive with the rear foot, these tactics will help deliver the force. Also you won't need to draw your arm back to throw a punch using these tactics.
Cool :)
They are almost the same, I think that the Wing Chun guard is a bit more tighter.
That's the way I do it, and that's how the old bareknuckle fighters of the past did it. Remember they didn't wear gloves, so keeping your hands close to the face was a good way to get hurt.
nice
Excellent Coach.
The modern bareknuckle fighter have usually quite thick bandages so you can take hits on back of the fist. But really barenuckle how much full blows you can take? I think your hand can even break. Maybe its better than a broken jaw but it still didnt look ideal to me for real bareknuckle.
It depends on where you hit and the conditioning of your fist. You see the higher you hit the head the more dangerous it can be to your fists. So by striking to the neck, jaw and face you have a better chance of not hurting your fists. But if you're worried about breaking your hand then stick to palm strikes, chops, hammer fists or elbows.
BareFisted
Thanks for you answer but you didnt understand my question/critique. The point in this video is fist as guard so here is the reference. I think the gaurding fists can break when you take all the time the full blows espacially when holding you fist square like you emphasis
Gieszkanne Yeah in my street fighting school we always fight barehanded and we never use fists for a guard, because that is just too dangerous and impractical. With kicks and body manouvers allowed it would get even worse for a fist guard than just with punches. We always use hand palms as a guard, and I think it is much more practicle. You can easily turn it into a fist for a strike, but if you defend your face and torso with hand palms you can easily aborb or even catch punches strikes and turn them into take downs without casuing damage to yourself.
LongLive TrueFreedom
Nice. In old school Muay Thai before gloves they used also a huard with open hands palms forward.
excellent sir, most excellent. I was gonna ask why you didn't post it on ABK but now I understand; as always your protecting my ass! thanks for not posting it, would be one less weapon I have. Again great...
The gym needs to have a Combatives Mindset, which means everything they train is for reality. If they train for the ring, MMA, or just condition the body thru exercises mimicking fighting techniques, then they really aren't training for reality only sport. Nothing wrong with doing that if that's what you want but if you're looking for self protection and reality look elsewhere. Always check where they are coming from, Sport, Conditioning, Traditional etc...
where are you located at?
Santa Clara California.
Like the videos very informative
Your knowledge on boxing is that of ignorance. First, not every boxer uses the same guard. However, the worst comment you made was calling boxing gloves "pillows". It's clear to me you can't distinguish a sparring glove from a competition glove. Sparring gloves are more padded, and slightly absorb punches to avoid unnecessary injury in training. This creates size, compared to the competition gloves. That being said, gloves are made to protect hands...not faces!
the bare knuckle guard reminds me of Ricardo Lopez's fighting stance.
So, you mean to say if someone, such as Floyd Mayweather, was to hit you without gloves, it would cause more damage than with them? I box myself, but if i were to bareknuckle box I would much rather have my hands guarding my face, than down. It's still better for a punch to cause you to hit yourself than to eat one, no one can deny that.
Yeah a punch is just a punch, keep believing that! Have a nice life kid!
Hopefully they wont see it until after your fights.
We'll know your distance, and don't bring your arm out like that to block a punch..
Hey Joseph, if you notice my punches are coming into Shawn's extended guard, all he needs to do is strike them slightly with his forearms, also I can't reach his head due to the extended guard. Yes there are times when you should bring your hands closer to your face or head, like when closer to the opponent, so you can adjust your guard when needed.
Make sure you and the gym have the same mindset otherwise you're wasting your time and money training there.
As to what causes failure, it could be you didn't get what you paid for, you expect to learn it quickly without putting in the time and practice, bad instruction, not committed to the instruction. These are just some of the reasons off the top of my head.
If you would be able to cut your opponent so easily, why would you leave your face open? And if they're so different, why make a video comparing the two? A punch is a punch.
KO=Force of Punch=Speed x Mass, while it might be able to cut easier, a KO is a KO. I notice in most bareknuckle boxing videos, people are hesitant, in order to avoid cuts, but that causes less punches to be thrown. The more punches thrown, the better chance you have for a KO.
One thing you didn't take into account is slipping! With your hands closer to your face you get more power! As a boxer who has fought in the streets I know i can slip any street fighter! With my hands closer to my fave get a stronger counter! I think this video is bullshit! With your ands that far away you would never have the time to react and stop or redirect my fist! Learn your shit then make another video.
I know my shit, you try that shit you do and you'd get shanked in the back of the neck or side of the head quickly where I come from. Keep your boxing where it belongs, in the gym or in the ring. By the way some guy in San Francisco got stabbed 9 times in the back and side of the neck doing it your way about two weeks ago not far from where I live. There's a reason why I keep my hand away from my head.