Same thing is happening in the trucks. Theyre taking tiny diesels and boosting /spinning the snot out of em. What made old diesels last was the fact they spun at 1800rpm and were so low compression you had to have block heaters.
It's true that older diesels with "electric start" had lower compression ratios than modern diesels that was done because these starter motors weren't as good and as strong as today's starters. They were lower rpm because these engines were constructed from far heavier materials like Steel and cast iron and back in the day it didn't matter as much on how heavy a vehicle was. Nowadays it does matter every kilo saved in weight let's you carry more freight. So you need more power. There are two ways to create more power. These are: higher torque --> heavier axles, gears ect. higher rpm --> more wear They'll tend to choose for more wear because it's easier to change a bearing than to make everything handle more torque. I know weight doesn't matter on combines as much. But Deere had a existing platform they wanted to do more with so they chose more power by more engine speed it works on the short run but it fails in the long run more early. This was probably the best choice for Deere but not for their customers........ As an engineer you always are in a vicious circle: More output --> more wear --> Less longevity --> less output --> More costs --> longevity --> More output --> and your back around. You always end with one that's valued more there is no inbetween.
My 2020 truck runs at 1400 rpm doing just over 70mph. Slower than the 2015 I drive with the same engine, and about the same as the 2000 with an N14 in it. People just don’t have a clue how to spec trucks, which is why we have 10 speeds all over the place.
Literally happening to every piston engine, from consumer to race cars. 3 cylinder turbo engines are becoming common. They have V6s in F1 now and most super car manufacturers are making V6 hybrids. They're fast as fuck, don't get me wrong; the power's there. Just concerned about reliability
I still run a 9670, since 2010. Overhauled at 3300 engine hours after head gasket. Currently 4580/3010 HRS. Going nowhere anytime soon. They are just good machines, no problems except for that.
Longest lasting truck I ever had was a 92 f350 long box non turbo 7.0 IDI max rpm was 3 grand and if you hit that you were doing something wrong, I think the thing idled at about 5rpm, that beast had 700 000 km when I bought it sold it at 950 for double what I paid 😂😂😂
I work with a kid from a rich family who just bought his first brand new truck. A 2023 Chevy Silverado HD. Kid is so green that he tried teasing me about my 2000 F350 with a 7.3l Powerstroke and under 200k. I'll be laughing inside of a running truck in ten years and he'll be at the dealership for the fortieth time. The lesson here is, if it ain't broke, don't break it!
That reminds me of something i saw on a friends 5020. He wanted to go faster to cover more acres so he ran it at red line. He was warned not to do that. Did it anyway that resulted in a blown motor in a really good tractor.
@@bondobilly9369 our 1666 kept pace with our 2166 so it doesn’t surprise me at all would’ve loved to have a 1688 they were a beast of a machine and that 8.3 Cummins 🤤🤤
@@lockypayne5916 our 1480 with a couple upgrades (shity dt466) could keep up with a 2188, it was work it it could. These new machines are nightmares, between cost, maintenance, repairs and technology. I'd keep buying good old machines until the supply was gone.
Lol i remember the Minneapolis Moline engines that rolled so low rpms that you could count the crank turns at slow idle but they were and still are such torque monsters !!
Thats why in Europe we only use Claas dominators 🇩🇪 John deere are known for being (as we say in Germany) absolute schrott. Interesting podcast chaps No farmers no food. Keep going regardless
Deere has been one of the top 2 market shares in Germany fpr a while now in both harvesters and tractors. Market share is publicly available data. You can talk all the BS you want but the fact is deere is where people are putting their money.
Contractor my dad worked for ran fords/fiat/nehollands mainly even though they had other stuff too but they had two 7810 forda and one had the screw removed and was revbing right out,30kph able to pass the 40kph 8240 same trailers on that tractor was still going strong 3 years later but was sold on when he decoded to give up the contracting
I worked for someone who traded his 9660 on a 9770 because the frame cracked and took out the rotor. No, he didnt have big aftermarket extensions on it. Then we had to add oil to the fuel in the 9770 to keep the injectors from sticking. I told him to go buy a bunch of cheap 2 stroke oil at walmart, but jd told him to add low-viscosity hyguard.
I worked for a company that builds the cabs for Deere combines. I can honestly say with absolute certainty, Deere didn’t stop with the bad ideas at the 9570 engines
Sounds like the old 8.3 Cummins’s, they where in a bunch of stuff, on road, off road, marine, industrial, agricultural…they’d kick a rod, #1 or #2, at about 7000 hours, but only in the combines. Ran fine in everything else.
For the most part combines with proper maintenance can last between 8000-10,000 hours but I’ve also ran 2388 Axial-flow’s with over 14,000 hours. The reason they don’t last as long as other machines is mainly because the operating conditions are horrendous. I’m talking extreme heat, dust and vibration. if you’ve ever ran a combine or seen one up close you’ll notice there’s a trillion moving parts (especially on the John Deere’s) all moving close to the speed of light and millimetres off the ground. Relatively speaking your semi is a very simple piece of equipment compared to a combine.
The Candle 🕯️ the Burns' very Bright end's up Burnt up quickly. Never Spin an industrial Type Engine Faster or increase the PSI more than it's rated for because they won't last as long.
Their big horses ran the qsx, a friend picked up the first and last loads of green qsx out of Jamestown. Some loads had red ones mixed in, apparently deere helped them with logistics when someone needed a crate motor.
What way amusing is they’ve been doing this in all sorts of aspects for decades. Tank designs suffered (and still do) from this where militaries want to slap on tons more weight and just boost the engine and then wonder why you can’t keep a vehicle running.
This is designed for farmers to keep buying over priced equipment. Nothing made by these manufacturers has the best interest for farmers and their pocket books.
This sounds like whatbGM Electromotive Division did in the.late 1970's. Overstressed the 645 blockbwith higher RPM and compression in the 50 series diesel prime mover. Making it self destruct. Lost business to GE.
there is a huge difference betwen some aplications where you use full power for short time and aplications where you use for long time. in marine aplications they are usually used for recreation yachts and its important for the engine to be as powerfull for its weight and cost effective, but usually its not operated for long hours. in combine or stationary industrial aplications they may run 24/7 constant full power, and thats why power has to be limited for engine longevity.
Exactly how do they know it wasn't designed to run at a higher RPM? They're just assuming from "stories". I get it, don't trust the big corp. I'm with you, but also, at least have some integrity in what you believe.
And the government can't seam to understand why we dont v4s with 3 turbos in are trucks .. "governments but guys its got more horse power than your v8 u should want this who cares if after 100,000 its trash just buy a new one buy them well have it furgered out how to make v2s make 800hp
You guys are doing this to yourselves. Instead going to the dealership and buying New/Now/Next and paying more and more for stuff you don't Need, you should be maintaining and rebuilding the older models.
Same thing is happening in the trucks. Theyre taking tiny diesels and boosting /spinning the snot out of em. What made old diesels last was the fact they spun at 1800rpm and were so low compression you had to have block heaters.
It's true that older diesels with "electric start" had lower compression ratios than modern diesels that was done because these starter motors weren't as good and as strong as today's starters. They were lower rpm because these engines were constructed from far heavier materials like Steel and cast iron and back in the day it didn't matter as much on how heavy a vehicle was. Nowadays it does matter every kilo saved in weight let's you carry more freight. So you need more power. There are two ways to create more power.
These are:
higher torque --> heavier axles, gears ect.
higher rpm --> more wear
They'll tend to choose for more wear because it's easier to change a bearing than to make everything handle more torque. I know weight doesn't matter on combines as much. But Deere had a existing platform they wanted to do more with so they chose more power by more engine speed it works on the short run but it fails in the long run more early. This was probably the best choice for Deere but not for their customers........
As an engineer you always are in a vicious circle:
More output --> more wear --> Less longevity --> less output --> More costs --> longevity --> More output --> and your back around.
You always end with one that's valued more there is no inbetween.
My 2020 truck runs at 1400 rpm doing just over 70mph. Slower than the 2015 I drive with the same engine, and about the same as the 2000 with an N14 in it. People just don’t have a clue how to spec trucks, which is why we have 10 speeds all over the place.
Duh....just go EV, stupid.
Literally happening to every piston engine, from consumer to race cars. 3 cylinder turbo engines are becoming common. They have V6s in F1 now and most super car manufacturers are making V6 hybrids. They're fast as fuck, don't get me wrong; the power's there. Just concerned about reliability
We had a 2008 f350 for hauling stock trailers and the turbo that came on that thing stretched the head bolts on the engine.
And let me guess, just outside of warranty.
Yes most likely the case just after its out of warranty. Remember they Want-Need you to buy New Farming Gear from John Deere Some How.
We been running a 9670 for about fourteen years and it’s still a beast
Thats a different motor
I still run a 9650
I still run a 9670, since 2010. Overhauled at 3300 engine hours after head gasket. Currently 4580/3010 HRS. Going nowhere anytime soon.
They are just good machines, no problems except for that.
It’s insane farmers and consumers know this and JD just puts out there like “tf they gonna do about it.”
Seems to me like an example of another big company that cares more about its shareholders than it does its customers.
And then you’re not allowed to fix it yourself
A 9570 is almost 20 years old lol
@@First-lx9hsyou are allowed to fix it yourself. You aren’t allowed to access software
They can buy something else 😂
Longest lasting truck I ever had was a 92 f350 long box non turbo 7.0 IDI max rpm was 3 grand and if you hit that you were doing something wrong, I think the thing idled at about 5rpm, that beast had 700 000 km when I bought it sold it at 950 for double what I paid 😂😂😂
I work with a kid from a rich family who just bought his first brand new truck. A 2023 Chevy Silverado HD. Kid is so green that he tried teasing me about my 2000 F350 with a 7.3l Powerstroke and under 200k. I'll be laughing inside of a running truck in ten years and he'll be at the dealership for the fortieth time. The lesson here is, if it ain't broke, don't break it!
That reminds me of something i saw on a friends 5020. He wanted to go faster to cover more acres so he ran it at red line. He was warned not to do that. Did it anyway that resulted in a blown motor in a really good tractor.
Sounds like the Plow company forgot the lesson learned about that back with the 105’s
The combines with the 8.1L engine were soooooo much better than the ones with the 6.8L.
I know of a 9570 that dropped a valve and completely destroyed itself. I didn't realize they all have problems.
3000 hours? That’s new
mines got almost triple that.
I looked at the torque curve on my 485 Quadtrac Iveco...any rpm after 1600 is just noise and fuel going out...no increase in HP or torque.
Deer is laying people off in iowa indefinitely
wow really? I've spent a lot of time in the Waterloo plant and it was pretty lively
People Sadly they are The First to Go when the $$$$ are Down in the Business World.😢
It's a seasonal layoff, they will call them back in June. Most of the deere plants do seasonal layoffs
This happens every year
you could just buy a 2388 have the same capacity for 25% off the price
And 10 time the the reliability with a fraction of the maintenance cost, our neighbours had a 2388 with 8,000 rotor hrs and she’s still going strong
1680/8 with upgrades can keep up with a 2388, seen it a few times
@@bondobilly9369 our 1666 kept pace with our 2166 so it doesn’t surprise me at all would’ve loved to have a 1688 they were a beast of a machine and that 8.3 Cummins 🤤🤤
@@lockypayne5916 our 1480 with a couple upgrades (shity dt466) could keep up with a 2188, it was work it it could. These new machines are nightmares, between cost, maintenance, repairs and technology. I'd keep buying good old machines until the supply was gone.
Smaller components are also prone to wear out at a faster pace.
Lol i remember the Minneapolis Moline engines that rolled so low rpms that you could count the crank turns at slow idle but they were and still are such torque monsters !!
Well on are farm we consider 3k hrs just broken in! 9600 JD combine been gud to us and well pass 4k hrs now!
We have 3k sep hours on our 97. Been a great machine for us the last 12 years
I know of a 9600 here in south africa with 16000 engine hours.
I love when you guys have Dave on
Thats why in Europe we only use Claas dominators 🇩🇪
John deere are known for being (as we say in Germany) absolute schrott.
Interesting podcast chaps
No farmers no food.
Keep going regardless
I haven’t seen a JD harvester in Europe since the 90s
Deere has been one of the top 2 market shares in Germany fpr a while now in both harvesters and tractors. Market share is publicly available data. You can talk all the BS you want but the fact is deere is where people are putting their money.
Deere combines sell so bad in germany that they have a whole factory to build them there.
Contractor my dad worked for ran fords/fiat/nehollands mainly even though they had other stuff too but they had two 7810 forda and one had the screw removed and was revbing right out,30kph able to pass the 40kph 8240 same trailers on that tractor was still going strong 3 years later but was sold on when he decoded to give up the contracting
Never ran a 9570. But the 9870 is one of my favorite rigs I’ve ever ran.
I do know where a brand new 9570 2009 with 0 hours on it is tho. 😂
I worked for someone who traded his 9660 on a 9770 because the frame cracked and took out the rotor. No, he didnt have big aftermarket extensions on it.
Then we had to add oil to the fuel in the 9770 to keep the injectors from sticking.
I told him to go buy a bunch of cheap 2 stroke oil at walmart, but jd told him to add low-viscosity hyguard.
I worked for a company that builds the cabs for Deere combines. I can honestly say with absolute certainty, Deere didn’t stop with the bad ideas at the 9570 engines
Sounds like the old 8.3 Cummins’s, they where in a bunch of stuff, on road, off road, marine, industrial, agricultural…they’d kick a rod, #1 or #2, at about 7000 hours, but only in the combines. Ran fine in everything else.
We had a 9560 sts, with the big engine like the 8320 has, it started having computer problems so we traded it for a s660
Edible kicked in
3000 hours 🥴
Why do combine engines only last 3000 hours? My semi has 17000 hours at 700000 miles something seems off and I don’t understand??
For the most part combines with proper maintenance can last between 8000-10,000 hours but I’ve also ran 2388 Axial-flow’s with over 14,000 hours. The reason they don’t last as long as other machines is mainly because the operating conditions are horrendous. I’m talking extreme heat, dust and vibration. if you’ve ever ran a combine or seen one up close you’ll notice there’s a trillion moving parts (especially on the John Deere’s) all moving close to the speed of light and millimetres off the ground. Relatively speaking your semi is a very simple piece of equipment compared to a combine.
Sounds like an N6 gleaner at about 2000 hours 😅
The entire n series, what a pile of junk
The Candle 🕯️ the Burns' very Bright end's up Burnt up quickly. Never Spin an industrial Type Engine Faster or increase the PSI more than it's rated for because they won't last as long.
Deere hasn't made a really good motor since the 4440. They should just put Cummins engines in there bigger than 200 horsepower stuff. JMO
Their big horses ran the qsx, a friend picked up the first and last loads of green qsx out of Jamestown. Some loads had red ones mixed in, apparently deere helped them with logistics when someone needed a crate motor.
What way amusing is they’ve been doing this in all sorts of aspects for decades. Tank designs suffered (and still do) from this where militaries want to slap on tons more weight and just boost the engine and then wonder why you can’t keep a vehicle running.
Wait American Corporation cuts corners to boost profits?!?!
I burned up barring and belts on the kp
This is designed for farmers to keep buying over priced equipment. Nothing made by these manufacturers has the best interest for farmers and their pocket books.
Lol the price.
Just change the spark plugs it’ll work again.
This sounds like whatbGM Electromotive Division did in the.late 1970's. Overstressed the 645 blockbwith higher RPM and compression in the 50 series diesel prime mover. Making it self destruct. Lost business to GE.
Your telling me that the lifespan on that is only 3000 hours. That's pitiful
The biggest problem was that it was painted green
Ford 3000 gas motor runs at like 1800 rpm, they run thousands of hours at that slow roll.
Stop buying Deere
Motors run on electricity. Engines run on fuel.
That’s $333 an hour
Member combines like the 6600? The combines that ran forever? I member.
You member?
What about remember? Just member?
Always take for granted how much horseshit farmers deal with.
2366 runs at 2420 under load. 5600 hours, Deere shoulda learned a thing or 2 😁
In Australia there are a few 2388s that have done 10,000 hours on the original motor.
Put DT 466 in it those spun 2650rpm new
And they'd take about anything you throw at them.
9500 series were ok but the Cummins and White, Oliver combines were far ahead of the whole pack
Everyone else had gone all rotary, and deere was still selling conve tonal combines.
Tell me they're not a marketing company.
They make marine motors that spin much faster than 2500 rpm. There must be more to the story?
there is a huge difference betwen some aplications where you use full power for short time and aplications where you use for long time. in marine aplications they are usually used for recreation yachts and its important for the engine to be as powerfull for its weight and cost effective, but usually its not operated for long hours. in combine or stationary industrial aplications they may run 24/7 constant full power, and thats why power has to be limited for engine longevity.
Proper oil change intervals would have given at least 5000 hours with proper recommended oil.
3000 hours? Semi's have 20k hours and are changing rpms.
Exactly how do they know it wasn't designed to run at a higher RPM? They're just assuming from "stories". I get it, don't trust the big corp. I'm with you, but also, at least have some integrity in what you believe.
The real problem is that it's green... Lol...
Poor design. This is why I don't trust the Ford eco boost. Remember kids there is no replacement for displacement.
And the government can't seam to understand why we dont v4s with 3 turbos in are trucks .. "governments but guys its got more horse power than your v8 u should want this who cares if after 100,000 its trash just buy a new one buy them well have it furgered out how to make v2s make 800hp
Buy New Holland Pennsylvania Combine
If you're running a Diesel engine and consider 3600 hours a lot of time, it's time for you to start buying different equipment...
Well said. They should be talking about 36036th hour.
True. 3600 hours is a pretty dogshit lifespan to put it mildly.
It's the emissions bs killing them
Sounded like he was testing him or something lol tryna see if he knows his shit
So what I'm hearing is take that engine out, and swap it for a cat of similar horse power and use it
Who gives a fuck.
You guys are doing this to yourselves. Instead going to the dealership and buying New/Now/Next and paying more and more for stuff you don't Need, you should be maintaining and rebuilding the older models.
Same shit is happening in forestry equipment to small of engines working to hard and not lasting more than 10k hours