I am going to hold off on watching this, but I was excited to see it. I am holding off and bookmarking it because, my bookclub met last night. We focus on classic novels. I told them about Whose Names Are Unknown after learning about Sanora Babb from your channel. They were really interested. We added both books to our list and will be reading them back-to-back. I have read Grapes of Wrath, but it was a long time ago. Thank you for adding a new angle for me to view it from.
I am furiously revising for an exam featuring The Grapes of Wrath and have been finding the whole ordeal increasingly oppressive and monotonous when I found this video. I want to really thank you for rejuvenating the story for me - your analysis and comparison are engaging and concise, I hadn't at all clocked Tom's foreshadowed law-breaking nature! I was genuinely moved near to tears by your relaying of Sanora Babb's treatment, especially ironic given Steinbeck's celebration of female humility. My mum and I have both decided that the Supervisor is the ultimate villain.
While I admire much about "The Grapes of Wrath," my favorite Steinbeck is "East of Eden," and your video made me consider the possibility of why. Though I think Steinbeck is a master at creating characters, I think you are correct in mentioning a kind of disconnect with the Joads. "The Grapes of Wrath" and its subject, while of great interest to someone who I consider to be a great humanitarian, was not Steinbeck's personal story. "East of Eden" feels much more personally charged, because of much of it feels like more of an immediate connection to the writer. I agree with the final assessment that the work is not plagiarism and that Steinbeck is not the villain in the scenario of what happened to Sanora Babb, as I have a hard time believing that Steinbeck would intentionally steal someone's work, or, with his background in journalism, fail to give credit or cite sources. But I think it is correct to bring up Sanora Babb in discussions of "The Grapes of Wrath" and to pushe her book out there. I look forward to reading it now, myself. She was certainly treated unfairly, and I am glad she is getting some recognition for the book now, and was still alive to see it published.
That was brilliant, Greg. I did read Sanora Babb’s book after you first mentioned it on your channel. Overall, a truly excellent book. I thought the second half more compelling than the first. In places, it did read to me as more of a journalistic piece than a novel. Grapes of Wrath is my favorite Pulitzer Prize winner, although I do have 30+ more to read, I doubt that any of these will supplant GOW in my affections. Having lived the first six years of my life in Modesto, where many of the Dust Bowl migrants settled, including Florence Owens Thompson, the subject of Dorothea Lang’s iconic photograph entitled “Migrant Mother,” I remember “Okie” still being used as a pejorative term.
My father-in-law was born in Oklahoma during the Dust Bowl (but thankfully not in the Dust Bowl area), and he told me he remembers Okie being used as an insult in his younger days. Congratulations on making it so far in the Pulitzer winners!
Thank you for this excellent deep dive! I read Grapes of Wrath in high school and it had a big impact on me at the time. When I was doing my English degree at uni, one of my profs assigned a research/analysis paper about a Nobel Prize winning author. We had to pick an author and do a full literary analysis of one of their works. At first, without thinking, I chose Steinbeck. My professor met with me and essentially said, “No. Pick someone else.” I am happy she did that because, regardless of Steinbeck’s impact on me with this novel and his stature in literature, her directing my attention elsewhere forced me to read outside my comfort zone. I ended up writing about Rabindranath Tagore’s Gitanjali. At that point in my life, if I had gone with Steinbeck, I would probably have struggled to push beyond surface level fanboy analysis. I think analyzing an author’s work in context in the manner you’ve done here is also a great way to expand the focus and get away from just pure author worship or blanket praise which I think has historically happened a lot with this novel. The research you’ve done here is wonderful! Thank you for putting focus on Sanora Babb as well- I was unaware of her story and work so I really appreciated learning about her. I’m off to look for her works. Thanks for this great video! 😊
Thank you so much for the kind words! I don't think I would have been good at deeper analysis on a popular and well-liked author when I was in high school either. What a fascinating project, though! I hope you enjoy Sanora Babb's novel if you get around to reading it.
As always an excellent job, meticulously researched and presented, thank you for sharing this with us. I apologize if you said this and I missed it, but did you find that Senora Babb’s Farm Security notes/reports are declassified and available to be viewed, either at an archive or online? I’m more familiar with Dorothea Lange’s photographic work for them and I know even her other government related work photographing Japanese Internment Camp eventually was released for public view, even the photos that were censored at the time that she took them.
I didn’t see anything that said her notes had been made available, but I also wasn’t looking for that-so it’s possible they are. I’ll have to do some looking this week, because it would be interesting.
You got me with the clickbait title! The Grapes of Wrath, along with The Lord of the Rings and The World According to Garp, was my introduction to adult literary fiction. I'm due for a reread. I've been working my way through the Pulitzer novels, too, albeit slowly and over several years now. I wish I had your public speaking skills. Very impressive.
I usually read off of the post from my website in the Pulitzer videos I do, but I’ll take the compliment and say thank you! My progress with the Pulitzer books has been slow as well. I decided to start in 2019 and was waylaid by the pandemic for a while.
@@SupposedlyFun Empire Falls by Richard Russo is my favorite so far, but To Kill a Mockingbird is really great, too. I also loved The Goldfinch. I'm reading Lonesome Dove next month, so maybe it will be the new #1.
Empire Falls is a great one. I had read both it and To Kill a Mockingbird before I started my Project but will reread them. To Kill a Mockingbird is one of my all-time favorites. Lonesome Dove is great-I would love to hear what you think when you finish!
I'm currently reading Grapes of Wrath and this makes the reading experience all the more interesting. Earlier this year I bought a biography on Steinbeck.
I just performed in the MasterVoices’ concert opera version of Ricky Ian Gordon’s “The Grapes of Wrath,” last night at Carnegie Hall. He first composed it for the Minnesota Opera in 2007 and MasterVoices first performed it at Carnegie Hall in 2010. A beautiful, stirring and heart-breaking work. Highly recommend you search for it here on TH-cam.
What a fantastic job. Thank you for all the work it takes to make such a video (as well as the video about the domestic terrorists at drag story time). I mentioned this on another of your videos, but I wish I cared for the book. As you point out, it was repetitive. As I read it for a college course, that part really annoyed me. I also couldn't shake the feeling that Steinbeck used the characters just as mouthpieces rather than dimensional people we should empathise with. I read the novel not caring about the characters and annoyed by what for me felt like "poverty porn." I haven't read any other Steinbeck. You've made me want to research Sanora Babb. The Babb/Steinbeck situation appears to be a less intentional version of the Pauline Kael Citizen Kane essay controversy. [As a fan of What's My Line? when it used to air on the Game Show NEtwork, I'm always fascinated by Bennett Cerf's role as a publisher.]
Ma Joad is the only character who, to me, felt lived in and authentic. As you say, the rest feel mostly like they are there to prove a point and go through the motions. I’ll have to look for the Cerf What’s My Line video! And thank you for the kind words.
Damn I love these Pulitzer deep-dives - keep them coming. To troll Greg I’ll say the GAN is The Sentence by Louise Erdrich ( he knows I actually would back The Love Songs of WEB Du Bois)
I find it abhorrent that the woman’s supervisor would share her research IF he knew she had planned or was writing her book. However, writers do ask for research I just find it hard to believe that Steinbeck could think it ok to “use” research without asking the actual source. So crazy.
Well, this is embarrassing. You’ve just explained the title of Springsteen’s The Ghost of Tom Joad album to me. 😳 If Babb’s novel is shorter, better, and was, to some extent, suppressed by a man’s book that happened to be published first, I’ll be reading her book! As always, a fantastic and fascinating deep dive!
How is your Pulitzer Prize project going? I started to do this like 5 years ago but then got sidelined by all the new releases, lol. I think I’ve only read 5 of them. I was trying to do them chronologically but one of the books along the way lost my interest and then I didn’t continue. Is the trick to NOT do it chronologically? How are you enjoying it?
I was originally going to work my way through chronologically but gave that up almost immediately. I'm more of a mood reader so I like the ability to pick and choose where I go next. Either way, it's a slow process for me. I decided to do the project in 2019 and didn't actually get started until 2020, then the pandemic slowed me down. So far this year I've only read two books for the project. But I'm enjoying it and happy to continue doing it! If I worked at it more quickly I would burn out. If I went chronologically I would get frustrated. So this is the way it works for me.
@@SupposedlyFun I get that. I’ve read about ten skipping around. I own maybe 3 more but haven’t read them yet. I’d love to get them all in a special edition that all matches but that’s not something I think I’ll actually do. I may read more of them at the library before I feel they are my shelf prize worthy lol!!!! I’ve been consuming a lot more than necessary I think I’m going back to the library!
@@Phillybookfairy Part of me would love for all my Pulitzer books to match but there's just no way to do it. I have A LOT of Franklin Library editions, but they stopped making editions for new winners in the 1980s (and went out of business later), so it on;y works up to a point. I lost control and decided that I want to own all the books, but it's a huge financial commitment--so you're a lot smarter to plan on using your library.
If I haven't read both of them and I really like Steinbeck's writing, which book do you think I should read first? Or should I just read Babb's book and abandon Grapes of Wrath altogether?
Not intended as a cop-out but both are worth your time. They have strikingly similar themes but handle them very differently. If you can only do one, I lean toward Babb--but really both are worth reading.
If we celebrate writers of American literature I just have to say that William Faulkner has made sweet sweet literary love to my brain. Rough too. Hair pulling and everything. Oh yes! He's on the level of Dostoyevsky, Shakespeare, Dickens, Kafka.
I found this anecdote a poor reflection on her: “Babb told the Chicago Tribune in 2004 that she thought she was a better writer than Steinbeck.” No one should EVER make such a claim about himself or herself, whether writer, musician, filmmaker, what have you. It entirely undermines how seriously you could and perhaps should be taken. Thanks for putting this footnote controversy on my radar, Greg.
I haven't read The Grapes of Wrath, but I read Whose Names are Unknown and I really liked it. I also read Johnny Got His Gun and really liked it - as much as you can like a horrifying book about a man trapped inside a mangled body who wants to be put out of his own misery. I suppose if you're not a fan of heavy-handed political messages, it might not be your cup of tea. But it's a book that sticks with you.
Everybody has plagiarized. On fact, I think that the universities and colleges should teach us how to do it effectively. Just get it over and done with. I did not invent the phrase "over and done with", I plagiarized it from somewhere. If we can't plagiarize, nothing would ever be said or written. 😊 Steinbeck could have, probably should have, given Senora Babb credit.
The real villain is the supervisor of the woman who wrote the notes. Why did she give them to her supervisor if those notes were for her own future novel? There is a saying that all writers steal. I have never found Steinbeck to be anything but a great writer. He had to get his research from somewhere. He gave credit to those he was led to believe had written the notes. THE GRAPES OF WRATH is nothing but a great book.
My understanding is that she was required to make notes for her job, so she combined her notes for her novel into the notes for the job. She just didn’t think anyone other than her supervisor would see them. Both are still great books for sure.
@@SupposedlyFun Yes. I understand how this happened. However, in those times, it was ok to use women's work and attribute it to oneself (if one was male.) By the way, I love your comments and read recommend your site to people I know.
I'm so angry that Steinbeck pilfered her notes and gave her no credit to his process or research. Another instance of a man stealing the work of a woman. As an Am Lit scholar pointed out, all of Steinbeck's other works are very slim volumes, and GoW is much more involved and in-depth - because it is plagiarized.
![กิโลเมตรที่ 0 เดินทางรอบโลกไม่ใช้เครื่องบิน [Around The World Ep. 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/toJG9oofLFY/mqdefault.jpg)
I am going to hold off on watching this, but I was excited to see it. I am holding off and bookmarking it because, my bookclub met last night. We focus on classic novels. I told them about Whose Names Are Unknown after learning about Sanora Babb from your channel. They were really interested. We added both books to our list and will be reading them back-to-back. I have read Grapes of Wrath, but it was a long time ago. Thank you for adding a new angle for me to view it from.
I look forward to your thoughts on both it and Babb’s novel!
I am furiously revising for an exam featuring The Grapes of Wrath and have been finding the whole ordeal increasingly oppressive and monotonous when I found this video. I want to really thank you for rejuvenating the story for me - your analysis and comparison are engaging and concise, I hadn't at all clocked Tom's foreshadowed law-breaking nature! I was genuinely moved near to tears by your relaying of Sanora Babb's treatment, especially ironic given Steinbeck's celebration of female humility. My mum and I have both decided that the Supervisor is the ultimate villain.
I'm glad the video helped you!
While I admire much about "The Grapes of Wrath," my favorite Steinbeck is "East of Eden," and your video made me consider the possibility of why. Though I think Steinbeck is a master at creating characters, I think you are correct in mentioning a kind of disconnect with the Joads. "The Grapes of Wrath" and its subject, while of great interest to someone who I consider to be a great humanitarian, was not Steinbeck's personal story. "East of Eden" feels much more personally charged, because of much of it feels like more of an immediate connection to the writer.
I agree with the final assessment that the work is not plagiarism and that Steinbeck is not the villain in the scenario of what happened to Sanora Babb, as I have a hard time believing that Steinbeck would intentionally steal someone's work, or, with his background in journalism, fail to give credit or cite sources. But I think it is correct to bring up Sanora Babb in discussions of "The Grapes of Wrath" and to pushe her book out there. I look forward to reading it now, myself. She was certainly treated unfairly, and I am glad she is getting some recognition for the book now, and was still alive to see it published.
I do really want to read East of Eden, and your comments made me even more eager to get to it. I’m glad you agree with the conclusion!
Excellent video! Thank you!
Thanks so much!
That was brilliant, Greg. I did read Sanora Babb’s book after you first mentioned it on your channel. Overall, a truly excellent book. I thought the second half more compelling than the first. In places, it did read to me as more of a journalistic piece than a novel. Grapes of Wrath is my favorite Pulitzer Prize winner, although I do have 30+ more to read, I doubt that any of these will supplant GOW in my affections. Having lived the first six years of my life in Modesto, where many of the Dust Bowl migrants settled, including Florence Owens Thompson, the subject of Dorothea Lang’s iconic photograph entitled “Migrant Mother,” I remember “Okie” still being used as a pejorative term.
My father-in-law was born in Oklahoma during the Dust Bowl (but thankfully not in the Dust Bowl area), and he told me he remembers Okie being used as an insult in his younger days. Congratulations on making it so far in the Pulitzer winners!
Thank you for this excellent deep dive! I read Grapes of Wrath in high school and it had a big impact on me at the time. When I was doing my English degree at uni, one of my profs assigned a research/analysis paper about a Nobel Prize winning author. We had to pick an author and do a full literary analysis of one of their works. At first, without thinking, I chose Steinbeck. My professor met with me and essentially said, “No. Pick someone else.” I am happy she did that because, regardless of Steinbeck’s impact on me with this novel and his stature in literature, her directing my attention elsewhere forced me to read outside my comfort zone. I ended up writing about Rabindranath Tagore’s Gitanjali.
At that point in my life, if I had gone with Steinbeck, I would probably have struggled to push beyond surface level fanboy analysis.
I think analyzing an author’s work in context in the manner you’ve done here is also a great way to expand the focus and get away from just pure author worship or blanket praise which I think has historically happened a lot with this novel. The research you’ve done here is wonderful! Thank you for putting focus on Sanora Babb as well- I was unaware of her story and work so I really appreciated learning about her. I’m off to look for her works. Thanks for this great video! 😊
Thank you so much for the kind words! I don't think I would have been good at deeper analysis on a popular and well-liked author when I was in high school either. What a fascinating project, though! I hope you enjoy Sanora Babb's novel if you get around to reading it.
As always an excellent job, meticulously researched and presented, thank you for sharing this with us. I apologize if you said this and I missed it, but did you find that Senora Babb’s Farm Security notes/reports are declassified and available to be viewed, either at an archive or online? I’m more familiar with Dorothea Lange’s photographic work for them and I know even her other government related work photographing Japanese Internment Camp eventually was released for public view, even the photos that were censored at the time that she took them.
I didn’t see anything that said her notes had been made available, but I also wasn’t looking for that-so it’s possible they are. I’ll have to do some looking this week, because it would be interesting.
You got me with the clickbait title! The Grapes of Wrath, along with The Lord of the Rings and The World According to Garp, was my introduction to adult literary fiction. I'm due for a reread. I've been working my way through the Pulitzer novels, too, albeit slowly and over several years now.
I wish I had your public speaking skills. Very impressive.
I usually read off of the post from my website in the Pulitzer videos I do, but I’ll take the compliment and say thank you! My progress with the Pulitzer books has been slow as well. I decided to start in 2019 and was waylaid by the pandemic for a while.
@@SupposedlyFun Empire Falls by Richard Russo is my favorite so far, but To Kill a Mockingbird is really great, too. I also loved The Goldfinch. I'm reading Lonesome Dove next month, so maybe it will be the new #1.
Empire Falls is a great one. I had read both it and To Kill a Mockingbird before I started my Project but will reread them. To Kill a Mockingbird is one of my all-time favorites. Lonesome Dove is great-I would love to hear what you think when you finish!
@@SupposedlyFun Lonesome Dove is my big read for June on the Range, so I'm sure I'll make multiple videos about it!
I look forward to it!
👏 thanks for this!
Thank you!
Just finished the Grapes of Wrath and I was not as convinced as I would like. You convinced me to pick up Whose Names are Unknown. Thanks from Japan!
I hope you like Whose Names Are Unknown!
I'm currently reading Grapes of Wrath and this makes the reading experience all the more interesting. Earlier this year I bought a biography on Steinbeck.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
This was fascinating! Thank you, Greg! I really want to read Babb's book now :).
Thank you! I hope you like it as much as I did.
I just performed in the MasterVoices’ concert opera version of Ricky Ian Gordon’s “The Grapes of Wrath,” last night at Carnegie Hall. He first composed it for the Minnesota Opera in 2007 and MasterVoices first performed it at Carnegie Hall in 2010. A beautiful, stirring and heart-breaking work. Highly recommend you search for it here on TH-cam.
What a fantastic job. Thank you for all the work it takes to make such a video (as well as the video about the domestic terrorists at drag story time). I mentioned this on another of your videos, but I wish I cared for the book. As you point out, it was repetitive. As I read it for a college course, that part really annoyed me. I also couldn't shake the feeling that Steinbeck used the characters just as mouthpieces rather than dimensional people we should empathise with. I read the novel not caring about the characters and annoyed by what for me felt like "poverty porn." I haven't read any other Steinbeck. You've made me want to research Sanora Babb. The Babb/Steinbeck situation appears to be a less intentional version of the Pauline Kael Citizen Kane essay controversy. [As a fan of What's My Line? when it used to air on the Game Show NEtwork, I'm always fascinated by Bennett Cerf's role as a publisher.]
Ma Joad is the only character who, to me, felt lived in and authentic. As you say, the rest feel mostly like they are there to prove a point and go through the motions. I’ll have to look for the Cerf What’s My Line video! And thank you for the kind words.
@@SupposedlyFun Bennet Cerf was a permanent panelist on What's My Line? The episodes are a lot of fun.
Oh how fun!
Damn I love these Pulitzer deep-dives - keep them coming. To troll Greg I’ll say the GAN is The Sentence by Louise Erdrich ( he knows I actually would back The Love Songs of WEB Du Bois)
😂
Great analysis.
Thank you!
I find it abhorrent that the woman’s supervisor would share her research IF he knew she had planned or was writing her book. However, writers do ask for research I just find it hard to believe that Steinbeck could think it ok to “use” research without asking the actual source. So crazy.
It's definitely a crazy and unfortunate situation.
Well, this is embarrassing. You’ve just explained the title of Springsteen’s The Ghost of Tom Joad album to me. 😳
If Babb’s novel is shorter, better, and was, to some extent, suppressed by a man’s book that happened to be published first, I’ll be reading her book!
As always, a fantastic and fascinating deep dive!
Thank you! I definitely recommend Babb’s book.
Nice video. I do think the main point is to make sure Babb's work is given the attention it deserves.
I agree!
How is your Pulitzer Prize project going? I started to do this like 5 years ago but then got sidelined by all the new releases, lol. I think I’ve only read 5 of them. I was trying to do them chronologically but one of the books along the way lost my interest and then I didn’t continue. Is the trick to NOT do it chronologically? How are you enjoying it?
I was originally going to work my way through chronologically but gave that up almost immediately. I'm more of a mood reader so I like the ability to pick and choose where I go next. Either way, it's a slow process for me. I decided to do the project in 2019 and didn't actually get started until 2020, then the pandemic slowed me down. So far this year I've only read two books for the project. But I'm enjoying it and happy to continue doing it! If I worked at it more quickly I would burn out. If I went chronologically I would get frustrated. So this is the way it works for me.
@@SupposedlyFun I get that. I’ve read about ten skipping around. I own maybe 3 more but haven’t read them yet. I’d love to get them all in a special edition that all matches but that’s not something I think I’ll actually do. I may read more of them at the library before I feel they are my shelf prize worthy lol!!!! I’ve been consuming a lot more than necessary I think I’m going back to the library!
@@Phillybookfairy Part of me would love for all my Pulitzer books to match but there's just no way to do it. I have A LOT of Franklin Library editions, but they stopped making editions for new winners in the 1980s (and went out of business later), so it on;y works up to a point. I lost control and decided that I want to own all the books, but it's a huge financial commitment--so you're a lot smarter to plan on using your library.
If I haven't read both of them and I really like Steinbeck's writing, which book do you think I should read first? Or should I just read Babb's book and abandon Grapes of Wrath altogether?
Not intended as a cop-out but both are worth your time. They have strikingly similar themes but handle them very differently. If you can only do one, I lean toward Babb--but really both are worth reading.
Good morning. I have found a lot of religious themes in Steinbeck's novels. Personally I find that that needs to be considered.
I agree. For the sake of time, I had to skip over a lot of discussion about aspects of The Grapes of Wrath. It helped keep the video under 40 minutes!
If we celebrate writers of American literature I just have to say that William Faulkner has made sweet sweet literary love to my brain. Rough too. Hair pulling and everything. Oh yes! He's on the level of Dostoyevsky, Shakespeare, Dickens, Kafka.
I always felt like Tom’s temper is what prevents him from fitting in with society
I found this anecdote a poor reflection on her: “Babb told the Chicago Tribune in 2004 that she thought she was a better writer than Steinbeck.” No one should EVER make such a claim about himself or herself, whether writer, musician, filmmaker, what have you. It entirely undermines how seriously you could and perhaps should be taken. Thanks for putting this footnote controversy on my radar, Greg.
I haven't read The Grapes of Wrath, but I read Whose Names are Unknown and I really liked it. I also read Johnny Got His Gun and really liked it - as much as you can like a horrifying book about a man trapped inside a mangled body who wants to be put out of his own misery. I suppose if you're not a fan of heavy-handed political messages, it might not be your cup of tea. But it's a book that sticks with you.
I feel like a lot of people read Johnny Got His Gun in high school but I somehow missed that.
I agree that it isn't out and out plagiarism. Did a man build on a woman's work without giving credit? Yes.
💯
Everybody has plagiarized. On fact, I think that the universities and colleges should teach us how to do it effectively. Just get it over and done with. I did not invent the phrase "over and done with", I plagiarized it from somewhere. If we can't plagiarize, nothing would ever be said or written. 😊
Steinbeck could have, probably should have, given Senora Babb credit.
Never knew that story. And it doesn't look good for Stainbeck. 😢
The real villain is the supervisor of the woman who wrote the notes. Why did she give them to her supervisor if those notes were for her own future novel? There is a saying that all writers steal. I have never found Steinbeck to be anything but a great writer. He had to get his research from somewhere. He gave credit to those he was led to believe had written the notes. THE GRAPES OF WRATH is nothing but a great book.
My understanding is that she was required to make notes for her job, so she combined her notes for her novel into the notes for the job. She just didn’t think anyone other than her supervisor would see them. Both are still great books for sure.
@@SupposedlyFun Yes. I understand how this happened. However, in those times, it was ok to use women's work and attribute it to oneself (if one was male.) By the way, I love your comments and read recommend your site to people I know.
Thank you! I appreciate that.
I'm so angry that Steinbeck pilfered her notes and gave her no credit to his process or research. Another instance of a man stealing the work of a woman. As an Am Lit scholar pointed out, all of Steinbeck's other works are very slim volumes, and GoW is much more involved and in-depth - because it is plagiarized.
You lost me at toxic masculinity
Me too. Masculinity is never toxic, it is heroic. It is only toxic when women are masculine, yet call themselves the opposite.
Did you really say toxic masculinity? I liten any further. Goodbye
Lolololol bye! 👋