EP's like Black Market Clash are meant to be cheaper, Punk bands used them to make record lables sell em cheaper. Smells like Children was the Cheapest Album of 1996 Black Friday when the US was going Alt- EP's should cost 3/4 the price of the standard, which back then, was 15--20$ E.P.s should always price below 9.99 and it was worth less than half of Portrait of an American Family.
It was marketed as an EP at the time because of its content. Instead of being wholly new material it mostly consists of covers, remixes, and alternate versions of previously released music.
Linkin Park's Reanimation and NIN's further down the spiral are the same but both of these are considered albums because of the same reasons. Technically they are remix albums 🌶️
@@ChozoBrain I should clarify when I use the term album I don't mean studio album but an album or LP in general. This technically is a remix/covers album I guess 🌶️
It was intended to be the 3rd single off of Portrait, but the label scrapped the Dope Hat single. It's not a studio album, it's a remix single with some covers thrown in and A LOT of interludes. It's either a remix album or single with a shitload of b-sides.
And then you have Autechre. A really good example is EP7, which is 11 tracks and has a total runtime of one second shy of seventy minutes. Despite its qualifying length of an album, the duo designates this as an EP. However, this was not only issued on CD, but on record too … albeit as a two part arrangement. Because of this, it could be understood technically as a double EP. Putting aside the number of tracks and runtime, the EP is sometimes seen as a “minor work” for the artist where it’s either a “one-off” or an experiment or something “quick and dirty” or even just something where it’s out there but doesn’t have to be this big deal unlike an LP, which tends to be taken more seriously. However, there are plenty of artists who are known for their EPs and their finest work can be found there (Cocteau Twins is the best example). I myself experimented with the EP/LP designation a bit, though not as controversial. As The Spangle Maker, I did the under 40min for EP and would use those to create “concept albums”. As キラヨシ, I still kept the length in mind (and now with records in mind, so my EPs can be under 20min) but now it’s whatever I wish to do.
Don't forget The Orb who also released the longest single to chart with the original run time of 38 minutes and 58 seconds I believe (which was 2 seconds under the prerequisite for the British record companies for a song to be considered a single). The EP as a minor work might hold true for some genres but in the realm of punk rock this is the opposite and was meant as a way to get their songs to fans on the cheap 🌶
It was released as an EP, but is long enough to be an LP. I think the only correct term for SLC would be Mini-Album. I wouldn't include it in the official rankings of his albums, but I probably wouldn't think of it in the same way I do Remix & Repent either. That's what I'd call an EP.
Mr. Manson himself stated that "Smells" was pushed out of them by the record company for their tour since "Portrait" was old by then. It, for all intents and purposes, was supposed to be an EP but ended up being "a children's record for adults who had messed up childhoods" So, ha! Album, in other words As if, as a child, I would ask to hear my favorite LP- NO! MA, that's an EP, silly goose! Besides, when you trim the fat off of it, Smells like Children still plays like more of a journey than most albums. And like it or not, besides Sweet Dreams was a colossal hit for them and it also introduced a number of traits that he is known for. If you were to make a mix cd for a newbie and didn't include some of that stuff, they'd be like wtf
It could be argued that without the success of that cover MM might not have got off to such a big start when he dropped Antichrist Superstar but TBH would you point a newbie to SLC to get them started? 🌶
@livelistenerased No argument, you are correct. We were all newbies at one time, friend! That's where I started, and so I saw first hand as the momentum grew toward Antichrist.
@livelistenerased I agree that they are all albums. Even Haunting the Chapel, since their best stuff was in that time period. I like existing in a universe where someone can say Gorgoroth; Antichrist is my favorite album and not get barked at. It's like 18 minutes long, but their discography is naked without it. While everyone tries to figure it out, I have a fun fact. If you compile all of Slayer's good stuff onto a play list it's right around 3 hours. I said good. If I'm being a metal elitist, 2. Fuck, that's embarrassing when I think of how many crying drunkmen I've seen consoled at their shows! I always have liked Slayer but they are the Jack Daniel of metal. It lessens the thrill for me. Sodom is way better
@@dominichowell6896 I had to check out this album you referenced and it mentions it was intentionally released on vinyl so maybe a technicality making it an album 😆. Regardless I get what you mean but as for the Slayer part - same could be true for a lot of bands and their best of and I do love Jack Daniels 😉🌶
Honestly I consider "smells like children " a remix album, it features remix versions of songs on the first album, and some cover songs, it's like when nine inch nails did "fixed", same concept in my opinion.
@@drlarrymitchell broken was classified an EP and given a short form status by the RIAA. It's an EP but this is classified as the EP of the CD era. That's why I clarified it twice 🌶️
You could have the same debate with rappers who put out mixed tapes or albums. The mixtapes seem just like albums but they're not albums so they're not considered the same. Drake always had a mixtape in between his albums and I never understood the difference between his mixtapes and his albums.. other than it's all forgettable lol
yeah that's a whole other ball park. Maybe mix tape is just another way to say compilation album? I don't know and I don't care enough to travel down that rabbit hole 🌶
I had Antichrist Superstar and Smells Like Children for a few years before i even realised POAAF existed 😂 my mind was blown when i realised they were actually remixes, lol
man that was an awesome day for you. Portrait is his best album. the guitar work and stuff on portrait is so good. isn't that daisy? i love wrapped in plastic, misery machine, sweet tooth such a good fuckin' day that must have been.
Yeah I grew up on a tiny island pre internet, so discovering music was a different experience then, lol It was amazing to hear the full versions of songs, and Portrait and ACS are tied as my favourite albums
@@SoupieGuitar it's definitely a close contest between those two in my opinion. i stopped paying attention to him around golden age of the grotesque though.
It's technically not an EP but the distinction is pointless and antiquated after the vinyl era; just an arbitrary term to categorize. Most people in the modern era consider remix albums, which SLC mostly is, to be EPs. Regardless, most everyone considers "LPs" to be the "main" albums with mostly new material and short EPs, cover albums, live albums, etc. to be in a different category; that's the one distinction that makes sense for an artist's releases and for the artist themselves, even in colloquial terms. (Though short EPs are sometimes more beloved by fans than most of an artist's main albums) All that said, SLC is great; the flow of the tracks are excellent and it feels like a precursor to the narrative and themes of Antichrist Superstar or maybe even an album created by the character in Antichrist Superstar, early in the story. Manson's choice of covers on SLC definitely reflects this.
It wasn't completely irrelevant by this stage (Alice In Chains for example) but for me I've usually had this distinction when it comes to records but further sub categories of albums. For example I don't think of Reanimation by Linkin Park as an EP just because it is remixes of their previous album - for me its a Remix Album. The same can be said for Further Down The Spiral by NIN 🌶
It should of course be on the list of MMs releases.... I think the complain was never alluding the strict technical term but rather what it was from the bands perspective. The intention of this release was/became "something to release until the second album was completed"...It does not matter the slightest what the correct definition is as the artist is the ruler of his art....That said i guess EP is also not correct, i see it as a kind of compilation release that shows the bands current direction.
More or less - it's a moot point in the long run but I guess I'm looking at the technical aspect of it. Regardless of content contained within or what the artist may define their works as the over arching body (RIAA) clearly thinks differently. MM may say this is an EP and maybe back in the day to reduce the price record stores would sell it at as they thought paying full price for a few remixes/covers/singles would be too gaudy and if that's the case good on them for having their fans back 🌶
So yeah, it's 54 minutes long and fits an accepted definition of an LP but to call it an "album" is a stretch. Even though you found a lot to support for your definition, I think what's missing is an objective critique of the lack of new content it contains -which is characteristic of an EP; It's 5 "remixes" from POAAF and 3 (excellent) covers and some throw-away spoken word/sample doodles. That to me is just an EP of B slides and remixes (what Manson calls it, but more on that later). It's not a cohesive, new statement which I think is what most expect from a "record" or "album". What would elevate it beyond an EP would be a new song that isn't a cover, a riff on a POAAF song, or more variety in the remixed tracks. Also, if you're just looking at runtime and what the RIAA says, then Nine Inch Nails BAD WITCH is an LP but it's only 30 minutes long. Hmmm. I guess the definition isn't so rigid? NIN even did some press to explain why it wasn't an EP and I tend to agree with TR/AR in that it's 6 NEW songs that work together as a cohesive statement. On the other hand, I agree with Brian Warner when he said that SLC is just an EP... Right here: th-cam.com/video/ZipzzpxO8Ug/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZytRKNbVhJv7Wpy6 (first 30 seconds). Sooo, if you wanna continue to call SLC an LP, you can do so, but then you're telling Manson he doesn't know what the work is. Honestly, I really don't care but just noting that the definitions of EP and LP are up for interpretation and both come with an expectation of the kind of content contained.
Again; content found on the album is irrelevant and despite what many, including the artist, may say. Alice in Chains Sap and Jar Of Flies are not remixes but new material and I think we both agree they are EP's. It's also interesting you mention Bad Witch as yes by what I have set out in my video it would be an EP in the CD era but as this was released in the digital era the line blurs more so but the RIAA would perhaps agree with my logic and see it as an EP as Broken did go platinum and is considered a short form album and that record had 8 tracks and contained covers and is longer than Bad Witch further proving my point. The only way we could confirm this is if Bad Witch goes Gold and see how they award it. Ultimately I believe MM and co self described this album as an EP to bring the cost of it down in stores feeling it wasn't right to charge full price for a remixes album containing a few covers but to answer your question yes i believe Manson got it wrong as I pointed out what defined an EP vs LP in the CD era, which is relevant for defining the albums as such and clearly the RIAA agree. Maybe others would like to point out their points other than "what the artist feels" in order for this video to achieve an objective critique because I see no evidence otherwise other than emotion with the musicians and their art 🌶
I was a huge manson fan back then. I just simply didnt like the cd regardless of what it was called. Compared to antichrist superstar, it just wasnt good
It is an EP though. Come to your conclusions all you want, but its official release was as an EP. Marilyn Manson himself has more say than you do. m.th-cam.com/video/ZipzzpxO8Ug/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUwbWFyaWx5biBtYW5zb24gdGFsa3MgYWJvdXQgc21lbGxzIGxpa2UgY2hpbGRyZW4g
It's an EP because the artist says it an EP. There's no hard definition of what an EP is. It's basically just something that's more than a single but less than an album - which is what Smells Like Children is. Manson's label probably marketed it as an EP because it's mostly covers, remixes, and skits. It's not a "real" album, nor do they want it considered one. Wikipedia says EPs are typically "15 to 30 minutes", but Jar of Flies is actually a little more than 30 minutes (same with Lady Gaga's Fame Monster EP). You talk about 40 minutes, but that definition would label many well known LPs with less than 8 tracks as EPs (ex: Pink Floyd's A Saucerful of Secrets).
@@patorjk that 40 minute mark is for the CD era of music. As can be seen with the hard definition on EP from the vinyl era (20 minutes long) than albums released in the vinyl era like pink Floyd etc fall under their respective time zone. It's why this album was awarded a platinum record defined by RIAA who knows best despite what artists or Wikipedia may insist it to be. The only logic I can see is that if they define it as an EP it forces record stores to sell it on the cheap which is my guess as to why they called it as such and someone pointed out below 🌶️
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EP's like Black Market Clash are meant to be cheaper, Punk bands used them to make record lables sell em cheaper. Smells like Children was the Cheapest Album of 1996 Black Friday when the US was going Alt- EP's should cost 3/4 the price of the standard, which back then, was 15--20$ E.P.s should always price below 9.99 and it was worth less than half of Portrait of an American Family.
That was the only line of logic I could think of why Manson would call this an EP but again it is not 🌶️
It was marketed as an EP at the time because of its content. Instead of being wholly new material it mostly consists of covers, remixes, and alternate versions of previously released music.
Linkin Park's Reanimation and NIN's further down the spiral are the same but both of these are considered albums because of the same reasons. Technically they are remix albums 🌶️
Well said!
Smells Like Children is essentially a remix LP with bonus content! Great Album!
I would say it's not a studio record in the way his others are. It's just some covers, remixes and random shit.
@@ChozoBrain I should clarify when I use the term album I don't mean studio album but an album or LP in general. This technically is a remix/covers album I guess 🌶️
It was intended to be the 3rd single off of Portrait, but the label scrapped the Dope Hat single. It's not a studio album, it's a remix single with some covers thrown in and A LOT of interludes. It's either a remix album or single with a shitload of b-sides.
I'd say it's a remix/compilation album. It's got covers. It's got remixes. It's other stuff. It's everywhere but it's really an in between album 🌶️
And then you have Autechre.
A really good example is EP7, which is 11 tracks and has a total runtime of one second shy of seventy minutes. Despite its qualifying length of an album, the duo designates this as an EP. However, this was not only issued on CD, but on record too … albeit as a two part arrangement. Because of this, it could be understood technically as a double EP.
Putting aside the number of tracks and runtime, the EP is sometimes seen as a “minor work” for the artist where it’s either a “one-off” or an experiment or something “quick and dirty” or even just something where it’s out there but doesn’t have to be this big deal unlike an LP, which tends to be taken more seriously. However, there are plenty of artists who are known for their EPs and their finest work can be found there (Cocteau Twins is the best example).
I myself experimented with the EP/LP designation a bit, though not as controversial. As The Spangle Maker, I did the under 40min for EP and would use those to create “concept albums”. As キラヨシ, I still kept the length in mind (and now with records in mind, so my EPs can be under 20min) but now it’s whatever I wish to do.
Don't forget The Orb who also released the longest single to chart with the original run time of 38 minutes and 58 seconds I believe (which was 2 seconds under the prerequisite for the British record companies for a song to be considered a single). The EP as a minor work might hold true for some genres but in the realm of punk rock this is the opposite and was meant as a way to get their songs to fans on the cheap 🌶
It was released as an EP, but is long enough to be an LP. I think the only correct term for SLC would be Mini-Album. I wouldn't include it in the official rankings of his albums, but I probably wouldn't think of it in the same way I do Remix & Repent either. That's what I'd call an EP.
I think of it more as a compilation/remix album similar in vein to reanimation 🌶
Mr. Manson himself stated that "Smells" was pushed out of them by the record company for their tour since "Portrait" was old by then. It, for all intents and purposes, was supposed to be an EP but ended up being "a children's record for adults who had messed up childhoods"
So, ha!
Album, in other words
As if, as a child, I would ask to hear my favorite LP- NO! MA, that's an EP, silly goose!
Besides, when you trim the fat off of it, Smells like Children still plays like more of a journey than most albums. And like it or not, besides Sweet Dreams was a colossal hit for them and it also introduced a number of traits that he is known for. If you were to make a mix cd for a newbie and didn't include some of that stuff, they'd be like wtf
It could be argued that without the success of that cover MM might not have got off to such a big start when he dropped Antichrist Superstar but TBH would you point a newbie to SLC to get them started? 🌶
@livelistenerased No argument, you are correct. We were all newbies at one time, friend! That's where I started, and so I saw first hand as the momentum grew toward Antichrist.
I never really considered it an EP due to the length
@@bbclose glad you concur 🌶️
Would this make Slayer's Hell Awaits an EP?
Fits the categories doesn't it 😂
That's the can of worms I'm opening 🌶️
@@metalcoffie ok I looked this one up and it was released on vinyl first so I guess vinyl rules apply making this an album. What are your thoughts? 🌶️
@livelistenerased I agree that they are all albums. Even Haunting the Chapel, since their best stuff was in that time period. I like existing in a universe where someone can say Gorgoroth; Antichrist is my favorite album and not get barked at. It's like 18 minutes long, but their discography is naked without it.
While everyone tries to figure it out, I have a fun fact. If you compile all of Slayer's good stuff onto a play list it's right around 3 hours.
I said good. If I'm being a metal elitist, 2.
Fuck, that's embarrassing when I think of how many crying drunkmen I've seen consoled at their shows! I always have liked Slayer but they are the Jack Daniel of metal. It lessens the thrill for me. Sodom is way better
@@dominichowell6896 I had to check out this album you referenced and it mentions it was intentionally released on vinyl so maybe a technicality making it an album 😆. Regardless I get what you mean but as for the Slayer part - same could be true for a lot of bands and their best of and I do love Jack Daniels 😉🌶
Honestly I consider "smells like children " a remix album, it features remix versions of songs on the first album, and some cover songs, it's like when nine inch nails did "fixed", same concept in my opinion.
More or less that is what this album is 🌶
Love it! ❤❤❤❤ Love Manson!!!!
Broken: an EP with eight tracks. Anything shorter than 25 minutes is an EP- everything 40+ an LP. In between = wild card.
@@drlarrymitchell broken was classified an EP and given a short form status by the RIAA. It's an EP but this is classified as the EP of the CD era. That's why I clarified it twice 🌶️
You could have the same debate with rappers who put out mixed tapes or albums. The mixtapes seem just like albums but they're not albums so they're not considered the same. Drake always had a mixtape in between his albums and I never understood the difference between his mixtapes and his albums.. other than it's all forgettable lol
yeah that's a whole other ball park. Maybe mix tape is just another way to say compilation album? I don't know and I don't care enough to travel down that rabbit hole 🌶
An EP from Alice in Chains is the equivalent of a full album from lesser artists.
True that 🌶️
I had Antichrist Superstar and Smells Like Children for a few years before i even realised POAAF existed 😂 my mind was blown when i realised they were actually remixes, lol
That would have been an awesome experience though particularly if you loved SLC album 🌶️
man that was an awesome day for you. Portrait is his best album. the guitar work and stuff on portrait is so good. isn't that daisy? i love wrapped in plastic, misery machine, sweet tooth such a good fuckin' day that must have been.
Yeah I grew up on a tiny island pre internet, so discovering music was a different experience then, lol
It was amazing to hear the full versions of songs, and Portrait and ACS are tied as my favourite albums
@@SoupieGuitar it's definitely a close contest between those two in my opinion. i stopped paying attention to him around golden age of the grotesque though.
@@SoupieGuitar he did really great work with trent reznor.
It doesn’t smell like teen spirit
Oh well. Whatever. Nevermind 😂🌶️
That’s because it smells like children 😅
It's technically not an EP but the distinction is pointless and antiquated after the vinyl era; just an arbitrary term to categorize.
Most people in the modern era consider remix albums, which SLC mostly is, to be EPs.
Regardless, most everyone considers "LPs" to be the "main" albums with mostly new material and short EPs, cover albums, live albums, etc. to be in a different category; that's the one distinction that makes sense for an artist's releases and for the artist themselves, even in colloquial terms. (Though short EPs are sometimes more beloved by fans than most of an artist's main albums)
All that said, SLC is great; the flow of the tracks are excellent and it feels like a precursor to the narrative and themes of Antichrist Superstar or maybe even an album created by the character in Antichrist Superstar, early in the story.
Manson's choice of covers on SLC definitely reflects this.
It wasn't completely irrelevant by this stage (Alice In Chains for example) but for me I've usually had this distinction when it comes to records but further sub categories of albums. For example I don't think of Reanimation by Linkin Park as an EP just because it is remixes of their previous album - for me its a Remix Album. The same can be said for Further Down The Spiral by NIN 🌶
Guys... what if it's a compilation?
to a degree it is... 🌶
One dislike, I bet I know who left it.
@@NateSmokes816 😂😂😂
Interesting. For me it was that the LP was the main album and the EP was the b sides and remixes...
Glad I could shine a light on this 🌶️
It should of course be on the list of MMs releases.... I think the complain was never alluding the strict technical term but rather what it was from the bands perspective. The intention of this release was/became "something to release until the second album was completed"...It does not matter the slightest what the correct definition is as the artist is the ruler of his art....That said i guess EP is also not correct, i see it as a kind of compilation release that shows the bands current direction.
More or less - it's a moot point in the long run but I guess I'm looking at the technical aspect of it. Regardless of content contained within or what the artist may define their works as the over arching body (RIAA) clearly thinks differently. MM may say this is an EP and maybe back in the day to reduce the price record stores would sell it at as they thought paying full price for a few remixes/covers/singles would be too gaudy and if that's the case good on them for having their fans back 🌶
a lot of them are just remixed tracks from portait.
Regardless of content it's still an album. It just doesn't fit the parameters of an EP 🌶️
It’s an early sardonic eccentric anti Christian greatest hits album for Brian
Sounds like his whole career 😂 🌶️
So yeah, it's 54 minutes long and fits an accepted definition of an LP but to call it an "album" is a stretch. Even though you found a lot to support for your definition, I think what's missing is an objective critique of the lack of new content it contains -which is characteristic of an EP; It's 5 "remixes" from POAAF and 3 (excellent) covers and some throw-away spoken word/sample doodles. That to me is just an EP of B slides and remixes (what Manson calls it, but more on that later). It's not a cohesive, new statement which I think is what most expect from a "record" or "album". What would elevate it beyond an EP would be a new song that isn't a cover, a riff on a POAAF song, or more variety in the remixed tracks. Also, if you're just looking at runtime and what the RIAA says, then Nine Inch Nails BAD WITCH is an LP but it's only 30 minutes long. Hmmm. I guess the definition isn't so rigid? NIN even did some press to explain why it wasn't an EP and I tend to agree with TR/AR in that it's 6 NEW songs that work together as a cohesive statement. On the other hand, I agree with Brian Warner when he said that SLC is just an EP... Right here: th-cam.com/video/ZipzzpxO8Ug/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZytRKNbVhJv7Wpy6 (first 30 seconds). Sooo, if you wanna continue to call SLC an LP, you can do so, but then you're telling Manson he doesn't know what the work is. Honestly, I really don't care but just noting that the definitions of EP and LP are up for interpretation and both come with an expectation of the kind of content contained.
Again; content found on the album is irrelevant and despite what many, including the artist, may say. Alice in Chains Sap and Jar Of Flies are not remixes but new material and I think we both agree they are EP's. It's also interesting you mention Bad Witch as yes by what I have set out in my video it would be an EP in the CD era but as this was released in the digital era the line blurs more so but the RIAA would perhaps agree with my logic and see it as an EP as Broken did go platinum and is considered a short form album and that record had 8 tracks and contained covers and is longer than Bad Witch further proving my point. The only way we could confirm this is if Bad Witch goes Gold and see how they award it.
Ultimately I believe MM and co self described this album as an EP to bring the cost of it down in stores feeling it wasn't right to charge full price for a remixes album containing a few covers but to answer your question yes i believe Manson got it wrong as I pointed out what defined an EP vs LP in the CD era, which is relevant for defining the albums as such and clearly the RIAA agree. Maybe others would like to point out their points other than "what the artist feels" in order for this video to achieve an objective critique because I see no evidence otherwise other than emotion with the musicians and their art 🌶
if manson calls it an ep, its an ep. like it or not.
If he calls it an EP than he is wrong. It has been defined by the RIAA as an album 🌶️
I was a huge manson fan back then. I just simply didnt like the cd regardless of what it was called. Compared to antichrist superstar, it just wasnt good
This is true. Had 1 great song but the rest was meh 🌶️
@@livelistenerased Which one?
@@lidiaspazzard in reference to SLC > Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of These) 🌶
@@livelistenerased I think there are better songs on there to be honest.
It is an EP though. Come to your conclusions all you want, but its official release was as an EP. Marilyn Manson himself has more say than you do.
m.th-cam.com/video/ZipzzpxO8Ug/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUwbWFyaWx5biBtYW5zb24gdGFsa3MgYWJvdXQgc21lbGxzIGxpa2UgY2hpbGRyZW4g
It's officially awarded a platinum ALBUM status by the RIAA. What clearer definition do you need? 🌶
I always thought this was an album as well. It’s long. You did your research
Many thanks although I doubt the person it was intended to reach will watch this. Here's to hoping I'm wrong 🌶️
@ maybe
It's an EP because the artist says it an EP. There's no hard definition of what an EP is. It's basically just something that's more than a single but less than an album - which is what Smells Like Children is. Manson's label probably marketed it as an EP because it's mostly covers, remixes, and skits. It's not a "real" album, nor do they want it considered one. Wikipedia says EPs are typically "15 to 30 minutes", but Jar of Flies is actually a little more than 30 minutes (same with Lady Gaga's Fame Monster EP). You talk about 40 minutes, but that definition would label many well known LPs with less than 8 tracks as EPs (ex: Pink Floyd's A Saucerful of Secrets).
@@patorjk that 40 minute mark is for the CD era of music. As can be seen with the hard definition on EP from the vinyl era (20 minutes long) than albums released in the vinyl era like pink Floyd etc fall under their respective time zone. It's why this album was awarded a platinum record defined by RIAA who knows best despite what artists or Wikipedia may insist it to be. The only logic I can see is that if they define it as an EP it forces record stores to sell it on the cheap which is my guess as to why they called it as such and someone pointed out below 🌶️