The Truth About Henry VIII’s “Reject Queen”
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Almost immediately after Henry VIII saw a portrait of the isolated, enigmatic Anne of Cleves, he made her his bride. But when they finally met, his stomach dropped: she was unthinkably ugly-or so he claimed.
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How ironic he claimed Anne smelled funny. She complained of his smelly leg abscess, which I find more believable.
That’s not irony.
Irony: the sharp contrast between how Henry chose to see the truth (she smelled funny) and actual truth (he stank).
She stunk, he thought
Numerous errors
U know he smelled, was fat, threw horrible tantrums 😂😂😂
When Anne and her entourage stopped for the night in Rochester, Henry had the 'brilliant' idea of showing up in his nightshirt in Anne's bedroom, entering via a secret door, after the exhausted Anne had retired for the night. Whether his aim was to seduce her prior to the wedding, to test her chastity or merely to divert the members of his court, we'll never know. In any event, the poor woman was terrified and furious at finding this gross, obese old man in her bedroom. She screamed at him, and called him every insulting thing she could think of, effectively emasculating the vain and arrogant Henry in front of witnesses. (Probably things like 'old' 'ugly' 'disgusting' 'vile' 'fat' 'perverted' 'smelly'...all sorts of things that were no doubt perfectly true, but which no one had ever dared to say to his face. Afterwards, Anne claimed not to have recognized him, (because how could she have anticipated such lewd behavior from a king?) which may or may not have been the case. But the damage was done. Henry's monstrous ego was bruised for the first and only time in his life. He had glimpsed the way he actually appeared to women, and he could never recover his libido, as far as Anne was concerned. If you look at Holbein's portrait, which we have reason to believe was accurate, and then read Henry's complaints about her, you can see that something doesn't add up. Most likely, Henry was attempting to defend himself by turning Anne's insults around and accusing her of being all the things she'd called him. And how do we know that Holbein's portrait was accurate? Henry had his chancellor, Thomas Cromwell, executed for arranging the match. But he didn't execute Holbein, whose painting Henry said had deceived him, because everyone who saw Anne and saw the portrait knew that the likeness was perfectly accurate. This is a story about what happens when you hurt the king's feelings.
I’m inclined to agree with you 🤔it does seem he was projecting his flaws onto her after a crushing ego hit. Which he thoroughly deserved.
Actually your account of this history makes the most sense.
From what I have read over the years about Henry's taste in women, he liked them with slim, boyish figures and small breasts ( which he called " duckies " ). Voluptuous, full-bosomed, wide-of-the-hip ladies were not his thing.
Henry’s meeting with Anne of Cleves was a very public event.
He did meet her at Rochester, but he did so with several of his gentlemen with him.
Being a daft romantic, he thought Anne would be able to pick him out of the crowd of men, so he he was overly dressed and was in the back of the pack when they all barged into her bedchamber.
Anne was getting ready for bed and in her nightgown. It’s no wonder she wasn’t too keen on entertaining a bunch of strange men, especially the large, fat smelly old man.
No need for an attempted rape when public humiliation would wound Henry’s ego even more.
I had a funny thought the other day about the whole situation. I imagined Anne not wanting anything to do with Henry but being pressured to do so and so posed for a portrait hoping he wouldn't like it. When he did, and she was on her way to visit him, she then tried to make herself not look like the portrait so much to get him to change his mind. Women had so little control over their lives, it made me smile to think of one manipulating her looks in an effort to not be "blessed" with this creeps favor. I also like this story which sounds so much like some of the encounters of today, where a guy makes a "charming joke", but not only does the girl not laugh but tells him to leave her alone and he tries to play it off like he wasn't interested in the first place or "just doing her a favor". 😆
He burst in on her in disguise and unannounced with a stinking leg ulcer the smell of which allegedly filled a room. She probably objected to the stench and chased him out .He became affronted and took his petty revenge claiming it was her who smelled. Henry was always a spoiled brat.
Sounds like a former president from somewhere.
A very lethal brat.
True. Henry VII had been a miser with most people, but was notoriously indulgent with his children.
They weren’t very hygienic back then.
@@yepiratesworkshop7997 my thoughts exactly! LOL!
Anne was the lucky one who got away. She lived a long life with honors and without the dangers of childbirth.
“No woman needs intercourse. Few women escape it“
- Andrea Dworkin
Long life? she died at 41 yrs old
@@TrollingWithTheTruth Better than the other wives. Plus the average life-span of the time was only 35 years so she had it pretty good.
@@TrollingWithTheTruth Which was pretty good for that time. Catherine Parr, Henry‘s last wife, died at 31 from childbirth, if I remember correctly.
@@sandywichmann9292 I thought she was poisoned by her new husband
I think there is a lot to be said for her force of personality to navigate Henry's court and come out as a beloved member of the extended 'family' despite her rejection. She must have been a very smart woman who was charismatic enough to warrant the respect that Henry and the court showed her throughout her lifetime. She made more than the best out of being 'rejected' and seemed to have outplayed all the stereotypes of Early Modern Noblewomen in Tudor England (and was not the only one) Cheers to you Anne of Cleves
Hear, hear!
😂👍
She was an extremely smart woman. See earlier comment.
When she made perfectly clear she wasn't about to let him infect her too, and also clear that she would stay quiet, which she did for many years cloistered away. It was a modus vivendi relationship like gay men in Hollywood marrying beautiful women, for cover from the public.
And she was so clever to play a little dumb-when her ladies in waiting asked her about Henry’s bedroom visits , hoping for details, she replied , “He kisses me and says ‘goodnight’”, isn’t that enough ? Even a lady of that time would have had a rough idea of the facts of life!
Anne was a smart and astute young lady.
She dodged a bullet by escaping marriage to Henry, and quite cleverly remained somewhat of a sister to him.
She became a quite powerful, rich single lady in England who could live her life in peace doing what she enjoyed.
I think she got more than what she wanted in the end, don’t you?
Agreed. She is also believed to have had an influence on Elizabeth whom she took under wing. There is no doubt that Elizabeth's strong and powerful nature choosing not to marry and give up her power was due in part to Anne's influence.
Absolutely 👍 She absolutely won that battle hands down and probably spent the rest of her life smiling thinking of her great victory 😊
Dodged a guillotine
Well, yea. Only his first, 4th and last wife died of natural causes. The other three were killed, on his orders.
Plus, he was not very hot, to put it mildly, in his later years.
@@The-Beyonder An axe more like, but yes
There is no mystery about Henry calling Ann ugly. He was a childish old man and the worse thing he could say about her without having to prove any problem with her was to say she was ugly. Hateful people still use it to be insulting and express frustration.
Sometimes you just use the tools available. Some other people are like a walking toolbox in that sense.
That said, it's indeed kinda sad.
Englands Trump.
@@Krackonis My thoughts exactly
Very much like a certain former president...
She was hideous. Hard to imagine a man being able to respond to her sexually.
I've never heard anything about Anne wanting Henry back. Why would she? He was an awful person.
I've never heard that either.
I heard the opposite, In fact.
It’s a harebrained theory of some Oxford dons trying to make names for themselves.
She had a lot of the benefits of the marriage while being free of it. Her life was in danger as long as she was married to him maybe even afterwards. It's weird that his children liked her. Of course it sounds like they were surrounded by insanity and it sounds like she was mentally stable anyway.
She didn't want him back at all they were good friends however. Sometimes such a friendship is far better than marriage.
What sucks is she was horribly homesick and missed her sister and mother very much but a stipulation of her settlement was that she had to stay in England. To go home was to basically come back as not only humiliated by the rejection but destitute as well. This also ensured that her family would not retaliate against England for the injury to the leaders sister. I always doubted the rumour she was hoping to be his queen again. Remember Henry was not only huge and ill tempered the older he became but the leg wound of his reportedly smelled of infection.
She didn’t want to return to her homeland as she would be under the power of her brother with whom she did not have a good relationship. Daughters and sisters and even widowed mothers were used as pawns in marriage alliance Game of Thrones
@@themermaidstale5008Yes, this is what I read, too. She probably was looked after better in England than had she gone back to Germany and married off to another noble. I think it was also to keep the German allegiance as well why she stayed and was looked after.
So, there’s this musical called “Six” that I think you’d like…
@@Miss_Camel🎶 bring me some pheasant, leave it on the bone🎵
@@AdelTheForsaken Henry would probably have eaten the bird clutched in both hands. He was huge at this time, but became enormous later on. He was probably diabetic. When he was no longer able to ride to the hunt, a scaffold was built for him and the beaters would drive deer towards him to shoot with a bow and arrow. He would shoot more than could be consumed by him while visiting, hopefully they were distributed to villagers after filling the larder of Henry’s host.
The music is way too loud. It is detracting from being able to hear the narration.
Yeah it could be toned down a tad bit even tho it’s beautiful
Yeah, why do they have to do that?
I agree! Impossible to concentrate on the narrative with that racket going on
… like in 50% of all YT videos. Pointless and particularly annoying for non-native speakers.
I was looking for this comment to give it a thumbs up
Anne of Cleves, like Catherine of Aragon, would likely not have been executed as they were foreign. This would have been politically risky. Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were English, so were much more likely to be executed without repercussions.
They, Annie B and Kathryn H., we're cousins.
never thought about it that way, but that’s a great point.
@@Friendofstfrank Catherine. Not Kathryn. And it should be 'they _were_ cousins' otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
Anne of Cleves was politically savvy & acted like a professional card-shark apparently at the games table-her generous alimony settlement (which included several palatial estates & massive land-holdings) was worth $1Billion in modern dollars - she may have been homely but shrewd as a snake - and did very well for herself by making ‘lemonade’ out of a lemon fate handed her…
that's just it, she wasn't homely at all
@@flannelpillowcase6475 - even the younger Holbein couldn’t make poor Anne of Cleves very attractive - it was said she had ‘bad skin’ which you can see glimpses of her skin condition from her portrait done ‘from life’ - she was no Catherine Howard, that’s for sure-but look how THAT turn’d out !!
But isn't it amazing that she came back after such a bad start?
It was also stated by Henry "that when he saw Ann in the nude, he was disgusted at her so- called "very large breasts" and " an over bushy and hairy private parts!" Because he stated that he liked his women small tho tho and non bushy!" So he resented Ann and her body image. Lucky her that Henry not only hated her face, but also her figure. It made it easy for her to give Henry his divorce, without p*ssing him off, and losing her head.
@@theophilos0910That's your opinion lol. Lots of people had bad skin back then, and she doesn't look homely at all to me in that portrait.
Anna, as she preferred to be called, was probably so happy, to have been left alive. She simply enjoyed all her new wealth and prestige, and she was never going to do anything that would risk Henry, taking it all away from her. I don't blame her one bit for that. Also, though it's not a 100% consensus, the historians' works I've read say that they believe she died from breast cancer. (typed 10/20/2023)
Maybe not at the time he had only had one wife executed ( was most likely a victim more of politics when you take in the fact she charged with sleeping with her brother ) the first was still alive the third died in child birth something that was quite common then
@@jameshead9119 No, Catherine Howard was executed as well, for adultery. Catherine of Aragon was not still alive. She died before Anne of Boleyn's execution, basically of grief, since she never stopped loving Henry.
@@christopherhelton6999Hmm. Catherine Howard was his mid-life crisis that he tossed Anne of Cleves over for.
@@christopherhelton6999 but didn’t he marry her after Anne so didn’t count in his reputation for killing wives in her consideration to marry him
@@jameshead9119 Childbirth was often deadly but that was considered normal. However, even then, most women would consider a man having one wife executed to be one more than they were comfortable with. Two wives discarded (one of which was executed), two children declared bastards, was not a good track record. Marriage to Henry was a dangerous affair. Anne of Cleves was the smart one, when Henry wanted out of the marriage, she made it easy. She lost a crown but kept her head AND most of her social status.
I don’t know why you consider Anne’s burial place to be insignificant.
What you saw was a marker on the north face of her sarcophagus, not her tomb itself. It’s in a very prominent position.
If you watched the coronation of Charles III, then you noticed the large, long table-like structure that had all the regalia placed upon it.
THAT is the tomb of Anne of Cleves!
You want to see an insignificant tomb? All Henry got was a niche in the mausoleum at St. George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle. Which he shares with Jane Seymour, Charles I and and infant child of Queen Anne (last of the Stuart monarchs). His only memorial is a slab with his name and those of his roommates in the choir floor above him.
A real touche' from the Royals who followed Henry.
@@ConcedoNullia shame? He is the biggest stain on England’s history. He was a monster. A murderer. A philanderer. Screw him, he deserves nothing. He doesn’t even deserve to lie next to Jane Seymour.
OF COURSE they would throw a Stuart in there. They hate us lmao.
@@ConcedoNulliwhy reward a bad king? 👎
@@ConcedoNulliIt was actually his daughter, Elizabeth I, that has influenced our modern times more. He's well known for his scandals surrounding marriage.
I've heard this theory the first time. And it's the most credible I must say.
I mean he trusted Holbein. He was the painter by choice because of his accurate depictions. Why would he suddenly betray Henry after being ordered to paint it accurately?
Also, there is no evidence that Holbein faced any repercussions for "deceiving" the king with Anna's portrait. I just can't imagine Henry not punishing him, if that was what he felt had happened...
Exactly
@@teresawelter7530 actually, I think Henry didn't let him paint any of his people anymore. But, yeah, comparing to other repercussions this is amazingly mild
Was it common in those days to paint "natural" paintings, or did they embellish. Would't these paintings have been seen by the bride's family before it being returned to England? That might have made the painter do some, if not much, touch up.
@@toringepedersen9614It was common to embellish, but Henry told him specifically not to. If he did or not I guess depends on who he was trying to please the most, Henry's request of not embellishing or Anne's family who was interested in marrying her.
I love the thought of this person who was rejected so mysteriously and somehow came out apparently better for it and better than Henry's other wives. Who knows--ANYTHING could have gone down and we'll never know. The excuses of "not pretty enough" and "didn't know what sex even was" and "probably wasn't virgin anyway" all sound so absurd and fabricated. Maybe Anne immediately told Henry that he was wonderful, but that she was terrified of being the queen, although she was equally terrified to tell her family her fears. Maybe she couldn't forgive Henry for deceiving her with his robber dress-up game and making her possibly fear for her life or safety right before marriage and it was just too bad a stat to overcome with two big egos in the room. Henry often comes off vengeful, stupid and petty, so how this apparently cast out woman eventually gained treatment as all-but-royalty has to be a really interesting story.
Very much the words of a petulant teenager who has been rejected by the girl of his.dreams!
Wouldn't be the first time Henry fabricated evidence/reasons. Knowing Henry, would anyone call the King a liar?
He most likely, with his crushed ego, repeated everything she had said to him the night he accosted her.
All she really got was the Boleyn home, and that was primarily because Anne B was DEAD. A pittance after being ripped out of her homeland and married to a jerk and then abandoned.
Henry had already made an enemy of Spain through his brutality toward Katherine of Aragon, and of all the other Catholic countries when he abandoned Catholicism. He couldn't afford to have the Germans and, possibly, other Protestant countries turn against him. She was a political prisoner, in a sense, but one who negotiated very favourable terms for her incarceration.
@@stoverbooI like this the best.
It has been attested by many who were there that many of the unkind things that Henry said of Anne were in fact true of Henry himself. Most notably with regard to her smell. It was said of Henry at this time that one knew when the King was coming because one smelled him long before he actually appeared because of his ulcerated leg.
Being a old movie buff and immediately recognizing the clips of the movie used in your video... “The Private Life of Henry VIII” 1933. Staring Charles Laughton (Henry VIII) and Elsa Lanchester (Anne of Cleves) Charles and Elsa were married in real like for 34 years until his death in 1962. Elsa never remarrying and passing away in 1986. Besides portraying Anne of Cleves, Elsa’s most famous role was playing Frankenstein’s Bride in 1935. (I’m sure you’ll remember... Big hair with a white “Lightning Bolt” up the side!)
She was also in Mary Poppins.
@@janedoe805 I knew it had rebooted but only bc hubby's a fan of the guy in the series bc of his British TV history. (he's a well known comedian over here) I don't actually watch TV so I'm not up on these things, so hubby tells me.
thank you! appalling there was no citation to the video
Excellent film knowledge there
Thanks for the info - I couldn't remember their names.
She got the best deal of all the wives. He was so grateful she went without a fight he styled her “sister” which made her second only to a Queen in precedence. He took care of her financially and never remarried making her truly independent. Unheard of for a woman in those days. All around winner .
yep
She wasn't ugly. His ego was bruised. Recreations of her show her as beautiful.
There’s a painting misidentified as Catherine Howard’s execution - it was actually lady Jane Gray’s execution.
Thanks for sharing. Did the misidentification of that painting occur less than a Royal lifetime before the boxer rebellion in China happened next? Google search hints that the mixup maybe only occured because women being executed didn't go over as well in public while so many heads in Britain too were being loped off at the time. Thankfully times have changed in Europe now that only Belarus continues executing people for crimes they have done according to at least 2 witnesses.
Im glad Anne came away better off. And I know he said that he didn't like her. I think he did. Maybe not as a wife. He declared her to be his sister. Both of his natural sisters were deceased by that time. Sometimes people meet someone they like but no romantic interest. He didn't seem to mind having her around. He gave her property and living expenses. A lot more i could say. She did well anyway.
Apparently they did become great friends later. She only spoke German and he didn’t speak German. She was said to have learned English in 6 months. I really like her as a person. She was one of the few royals that didn’t ostracize young Elizabeth. She wanted to invite young Elizabeth back to court. Henry refused. She also apparently hosted Elizabeth at her home somtimes. She was one of the wives that was wonderful to harrys kids. Catherine Parr is for sure one of my favorites because she helped to raise Edward and also Elizabeth. Per noble blood the podcast. She was the overseer of their education and they both thrived. Both were considered brilliant academic prodigies. Ann Boleyn could be petty and nasty she wanted to humiliate young Mary.
She got an opportunity almost women had then.
To have her own home, staff & income
She probably wouldn't put up w his Narisistic bull
The only downside was that, due to her being "divorced" (annulled) she could not get remarried. Even if she found her love. Legally and socially couldn't. So that sucks
@@kwill84the only thing tho about Parr was that she didn't believe and even punished Elizabeth when Parr's disgusting lover assaulted Lizzy. So I'm not really her biggest fan.
@@ZiggyWhiskerz
Marriage isn't everything.
Not now or then.
People assume it is.
She got to live 100% how she wanted, in a time women were controlled by men.
I think she was a lot smarter than most people think.
of course, as a woman, I feel they definitely downplayed it esp. since she married a king :)
Apparently, her family, although of the aristocracy was penurious. This match would have been a life line for the family. She pretty much did not have a choice. Also, Holbein, the artist of the infamous portrait, was rumoured to have fallen in love with her and painted her through a lover’s eyes. Poor girl! However, she managed to parlay her position into a perfect life for herself without Henry but as an apparent great friend of his for the rest of her life. Had she stayed at home, her life would have been really rather awful. It is unfortunate she died so young but certainly not executed or in childbirth. I can only imagine how dreadful Henry was later in life, with an ulcerous leg, ever increasing weight and having lost his youthful promise. He became a real tyrant. My historical heroine will always be Elizabeth I. She avoided assassinations and political traps all of her life. Tough as nails she was in a male dominated society. She learned life lessons from the number of her step mothers who died early. Something to keep in mind!
Her family were Protestants and by that very pious. They lived simple because of their believes. Annes father and her brother as dukes of Cleve, Jülich, Berg- and between 1538 and 1543- Geldern and the county of Schwanenberg, were actually very, very rich and gave her a huge dowry. Via the marriage of her brother she was related to the King of France. So, she wasnt a poor girl by the means of money but rather because- as you stated- she had to marry Henry for political reasons.
Her sisters portrait is also very beautiful. Hohlbein was known to paint pretty accurately
I like the look in Anne of Cleves' eyes in the picture by Holbein. She looks peaceful and kind. I'm happy for her that she got him to let go of her by some means. As for the actress playing her in that old movie, she is beautiful, AND I also cannot look at her without laughing, either. She makes me think of a sexy circus clown.
That movie is "Private Lives of Henry VIII". The actor playing Henry is Charles Laughton and the actress playing Anne is Elsa Lanchester, Charles actual wife.
Yeah, Elsa was faboo. I love her. Have you seen Murder By Death? So funny, and she did a great job.
I love The Private Life of Hen ry VIII and Charles Laughton is brilliant but the actresses playing the wives all look very 1930s with plucked eyebrows, lipstick and short hair. Their costumes are questionable as well. It's hard to take them seriously.
@@linpollitt8950 Yeah, every movie back then was like that. Even Scarlett O'Hara wore makeup.
Anne of Cleaves was certainly one of the lucky ones. At least he only divorced her. She could have died from childbirth complications like her immediate predecessor, beheaded by a slightly more distant predecessor AND her immediate successor. If it were me, and I was married to that guy, I'd take the divorce and call it a win.
If I could travel back in time, Anna would be the first I'd want to visit. We know so very little about her thoughts, feelings, her talents, likes and dislikes...But she must have had a sharp wit to navigate a situation like hers with such dignity and grace. I also heard she was quite fond of the young Elizabeth and wrote to her frequently. Maybe one smart woman recognised another...
Seems like Anne of Cleves dodged a bullet while also making out like a bandit between, properties, gifts and allowance. She was said to have outlived all of her rivals as well as the king himself. Someone was clearly watching over her. Not bad for a lady of her time! 👑
Agree. The one that thankfully was saved. Bless her.
Anne was certainly the luckiest of Henry's wives. She and the first Anne have always been my favorites. I have only been to the Louvre once, half a century ago, but the first thing I did was search out Holbein's portrait of Anne of Cleves. She was a lovely, pleasant-faced woman. Henry, of course, was a pig.
I seriously doubt she was as unattractive as Henry proclaimed her to be.
Hans Holbein was told to paint her accurately which I'm sure he did because he wouldn't want to suffer the wrath of Henry and possibly lose his comfortable and profitable position as an artist to the court.
Many contemporaries said that she was attractive.
The Tudors may have had a different standard of beauty that she did not conform to.
The Tudors seem to have preferred thin flat-chested women with a porcelain white complexion.
Anna seems to have been more voluptuous with a slightly darker complexion.
Her education was also different than the women of the Tudor Court as she was not that well-schooled in music and dance because German Noble women were taught more lifestyle skills such as running of a large estate.
The difference in education and the language barrier put her at a disadvantage at the Tudor Court.
I believe Henry made up her being unappealing because "LITTLE HENRY" wasn't up to performing his royal duties because of illness and age!
Little Henry was lucky big Henry didn't have his head cut off for refusing to preform his royal duties
There it is! Couldn't write an entire post without blaming it all an his manhood.
I think you're right! 😊
And because of his pussing abscesses!
@@DeadlyPlatypusI love how guys like you get so offended by misogyny but have no issue harassing women if they protest against sexism, which is done far more often and more aggressively by men. Grow up.
I read somewhere that Holbein was a bit in love with Anne and painted a more flattering picture of her than she was in reality.
Strangely, some historical accounts claim that Henry and Anne became good friends after the divorce and visited her home to chat, drink, and play cards. Until his death, Anne welcomed Henry to her home as a real friend.
It's well documented that Henry and Anne of Cleves remained good friends for the rest of his life, it's not "strange" and "some accounts". He divorced her and named her his sister, effectively, gave her a generous yearly allowance and she lived a happy life in England.
Um…they were NOT divorced. The marriage was annulled. 😖
@@bibbidybopp760 Well, I think it IS strange that one would make a friend of a serial killer. But being "friendly" certainly would have been more advantageous. Becoming headless would not have been an appropriate cure for her "ugliness"...
@@bibbidybopp760 It would be interesting to find out what lead to the reconciliation and how they became good friends. Folks don't usually do all those nice things for someone they despise unless they are being seriously manipulated.
@brianfox771 Wouldn't Germany retaliate against him if he didn't treat his ex wife with due respect? I feel that was a bigger reason for his generosity toward her.
I haven't heard of any punishment Holbein suffered as a result of his painting of Anne. Also, if you look at other Holbein's work, it was very realistic.
This isn't very accurate. Henry made himself head of the church in England in order to marry Anne Boleyn. He didn't despise catholicism, only the Pope. He changed religion very little and continued persecuting some protestant heretics. It was his son Edward VI who made many more changes to incorporate protestantism. His Ministers wanted him to have protestant international alliances to counteract the enmity of the Pope and Spain. Hence their proposal of marriage to Anne of Cleves. What's the evidence that Anne of Cleves hoped for a rematch with Henry? She got everything she needed out of the annulment settlement and was probably glad to escape this murderous man, alive.
🩵👍
One might even say that he didn't despise the pope so much as he coveted the pope's power - or resented it, at any rate. But very true: privately, Henry remained a catholic, while never a really good one.
So, they still deified Mary and had the private confessional through human priests, held services only in Latin, and practiced all the other specifically Catholic religious rites and held onto the objects/talismans that are found in the Catholic Church?
He did not hate the pope, or Catholicism, his religious beliefs never changed at all, all he wanted was a divorce and he couldn’t get one. His want/need of divorce was all about having a legitimate son, multiple if possible because he grew up with the civil wars and what not involving heirs and did not want to revisit. He did not have a male heir with Catherine though they were born but did not survive infancy, and he was afraid. It had nothing to do with his beliefs or practices, he just wanted sons and at the time thought as most did that it was the woman’s fault and for him the added “sin” of marrying his brothers wife “allowed” him to believe that he needed another one, and the fact that he had an illegitimate son in an affair one of multiple “allowed” him to further believe that he needed another wife.
@ditzygypsy Yes, except we don't deify Mary. She is exhalted yes because she was chosen to have Jesus and yes she is capable of performing miracles. Do you just not know or is this a misogynistic comment.
I have long understood that Henry already had designs on Catherine Howard, prior to his marriage with Anne of Cleves, dooming his reaction to Anne before he’d met her.
Undoubtedly the stupid and clumsy invasion of her bedchamber did not go well, and is historically well attested.
Anne’s relationship with Henry’s children is also well documented.
I’ve also always understood that far from her burial in Westminster being unremarkable, it was a sign of the esteem that Queen Mary had for her briefly former step-mother, as I believe it is quite close to the High Altar.
What is all this about Henry "invading" Anne's bedchamber? Someone else said that, about Henry coming into her bedchamber at night, dressed only in a nightshirt.
I'm guessing it's from some television show, but since I usually don't watch 'historical' dramas, I have no idea which one.
Anne was in a chamber with her ladies-in-waiting, watching a bull baiting out the window. He arrived in disguise, with 5 of his courtiers. He tried to kiss her and, not knowing who he was, she objected.
"...and when the King perceaved she regarded his comming so little, he departed into [an]other chamber and putt of his cloke and came in againe in a cote of purple velvett, and when the lordes and knightes did see his Grace they did him reverence..." - actual eyewitness account of Henry's 1st meeting with Anne of Cleves by Charles Wriothesley.
@@fractalkaleidoscope7154I don’t have a television.
I rather think that she was too intelligent and not willing to put up with Henry's bullshit. I also think that Ann and Amalia's father would never have allowed Amalia to become Henry's mistress while he was married her sister.
She probably said he smelled bad when he approached her while in disguise.
That's why he said she smelled.
It's called projection.
Anne was the lucky one, lived in a castle the rest of her life, was financially supported, not beheaded. 👍🏼
And didn’t have to keep sleeping with his stinky ass.
Lived in poverty & isolation for the rest of her life, because Henry & his children didn't honor the settlement agreement. She never saw her beloved family again. She was essentially a prisoner who was denied the opportunity to marry and have children.
Died at the age of 42, probably of cancer, which is widely known to be more likely to occur if the person is under a great deal of stress.
People need to read more history books & watch less "based on a true story" - but not very accurately - TV 'historical' dramas. Hate to break it to you, but Henry the VIII was nothing like Jonathan Rhys Meyers. He was an old, morbidly obese, unhealthy man who emitted a noxious stench.
The grossly fat womanizer said what? If he WAS that fat; I can tell you that sex was nearly impossible logistically. Complaining about her beauty, her smell, such a shame. I wonder what SHE would have had to say about being that close to HIM. She got away alive. If she had tried to be more let me say EDUCATED enough to try and allure him; he would ALSO have said that was a fault of her character, so...
He actually preferred intelligent, educated women. One of the issues he had with Anne was the fact that she was uneducated and didn't like reading.
Also, overweight people can have sex just fine. But thanks so much for the fat-shaming.
I notice you seem to have an issue with "fat" (you certainly use the word blatantly enough) but it's not very polite to make nasty remarks about other people, or to body-shame them. Even if the person you're fat-shaming has been dead for centuries, living people read your words & it causes them pain.
Your photo don't exactly look like you'd be confused with Kiera Knightley, yourself.
Maybe you shouldn't be throwing 'fat' stones?
Maybe you should try focusing on fixing your own flaws, instead of projecting them on other people. Even if Henry's been dead for centuries, there are people who read this who are still alive & who feel the pain when judgemental, shallow individuals try to make themselves feel superior by putting other people down for their flaws.
I'd rather be around people who are considered "fat" or "ugly"' than mean, nasty ones.
Henry never blamed Holbein for misrepresenting Anne; and Holbein continued to flourish as an artist until his death in 1543. @pamelachristie5570 outlines the first encounter between Anne and Henry very well, and represents why Henry decided that Anne's appearance was to blame. The French ambassador in England described Anne as attractive and dignified, though he thought the German fashions worked against her. Cromwell paid for the mis-match with his life, but it's worth remembering that Henry already had his eye on Catherine Howard by the time the marriage with Anne of Cleves was processing.
It's also worth mentioning that it wasn't completely the case that Henry was looking for a Protestant wife: he reached out to several royal options, and many of them turned him down, in part because of the religious aspect, but also because the beheading of Anne Boleyn left a very, very bad taste in the mouths of these women. Christine of Denmark is said to have remarked: "If I had two heads, one should be at the King of England's disposal."
Choosing between sisters in royal matches was fairly common, so the dual paintings of Anne and her sister wasn't all that tasteless during this period: it was a political action, not a romantic one.
To conclude, no. Anne of Cleves was not catfishing, had no need to catfish, and Holbein was not guilty of aiding and abetting in catfishing.
She ended up the best of all of his wives. She was given a nice estate and would attend family gatherings of Henry and his daughters. She must have diplomatically astute, because she was thought of fondly by all for the rest of her life.
But she died of cancer at 42.
Read a history book once in a while, please.
I know television likes to show happy endings, and that's not easy when they're dealing with a historical figure who had six wives and killed several of them, but people these days seem to believe watching fictional TV is the same as attending school.
It's not.
After reading so many comments which are clearly based on shows like "The Tudors," I'm no longer surprised that today's children accept the existence of an imaginary animal called a "tree octopus," after seeing computer generated images on a computer website. Now I finally understand: they learned it from their parents.
Henry at this time was so riddled with syphilis he was losing his mind regularly.
Wasn’t he also a bit nutty from a head injury from jousting.
The marriage was a debacle, but a great friendship developed. Henry and Anne visited and communicated often. Henry left Anne homes and a monetary settlement to care for her for life.
The problem with the research was in several instances the narrator kept calling Henry VIII his father by claiming he was Henry VII when if his father had still been living he would not have been king. Also part of the issue could have been that he had suffered traumatic brain injury from jousting in his younger years due to multiple concussions besides becoming diabetic and having gout besides the abscesses on his leg.that would not heal properly . He also had the power of life and death over his subjects and his authority was absolute and if anyone went against him they paid the price for it.
I've heard he was well liked and often very kind when he was young, and that his personality changed after an accident where he hit his head while married to his second wife, Anne B. Also, it could have been the Syph starting to affect his mind.
Henry would go to visit her often once a week. She was very intelligent and they’d have many and long conversations. He thought of her as a friend and companion, but never as a wife
Henry had known head trauma as well as his unhealing leg injury. The head trauma changed his personality from gigachad to verbal abuser. Throw in his weight and aging, and you now have a rather unappealing person who once was a charmer.
It's a truly tragic fate and it's very sad to imagine there wouldn't have been as many corpses if Henry never had that head trauma...
@@namkia205 there were many corpses before the head trauma . He started his career by executing his fathers chancellors and went on from there .
The head trauma has little to do with his cruelty he was already a murderous sociopathic person before that .
She wasn't even ugly! He was fat by then and had a horrible sore on his leg that stunk!! He was a horrible man who killed many people and Anne Bolyn was innocent but he killed her too! He couldn't have a son by his wives and blamed all of them instead of himself!!
Anne Boleyn was innocent of the charges against her, but she was hardly innocent in general. She was a very mean-spirited woman, who publicly ridiculed Catherine of Aragon once she knew she was under Henry's protection. The English people loved Catherine of Aragon and despised Anne Boleyn, which made her furious. Anne Boleyn didn't deserve what Henry did to her, but I don't have a great deal of sympathy for her.
@@christopherhelton6999 living in such a disgusting patriarchal world tho, can you blame her? seems very very easy to fall to serious mental health problems constantly being treated like an object, and worse.
@@flannelpillowcase6475"No matter what women chose to do, it's always ultimately men's fault."
@@DeadlyPlatypusfunny you say that because men blame women for everything. Even back then.
@Passions5555 LOL. Sure. You're great at projecting. That's been a core female strategy since the beginning of time.
That's why women constantly ramble on about the bogeyman of The Patriarchy, and no one ever even discusses the gynocentrism of society.
It's why women claim, "war wouldn't ever exist if only women were in charge!"
It's why women constantly complain about the way countries are run, even after women have been given the vote and are the demographic voting majority...
It's why women are far more likely to abuse their partners and children, but then bawl about how abusive the men are, while remaining silent on women's greater contribution to domestic violence.
It's why women initiate 80% of divorces, fight to keep their ex husbands from getting custody, then call men "deadbeats" for not paying all $3,000 they got the government to demand the man pay each month.
You're a sexist, playing victim and dodging any sort of accountability or responsibility and attempting to assign ALL blame to men, just like generations of women before you.
I'm a history fan but didn't know about Anne having a sister who Henry was interested in, so thank you for new info I can now research. In my opinion Anne was a very smart woman and my favouite wife of Henry's.
You need to read the Wolf Hall series
Here's another tidbit that you might already be aware of. All the European Royals were/are in some way RELATED.....
I saw a painting of her and she had what really looked like a man's face.
There is a historical novel called, I think, 'The other Boleyn Girl'........ she, Mary, was Henry's mistress before Anne. (Poor girls, their family was VERY ambitious!).
Anne had the best life of all his wives...she won the game Rich and free to do what she wanted basically after they separated.
May I say that I adore watching these two actors (actually husband and wife) working together. Charles Laughton and Elsa Lanchester were fun to watch in "The Private Life of Henry VII." Elsa was perfect for the role of Anne of Cleves. I encourage everyone to watch these two together whenever possible.
They also worked together in Witness for the Prosecution. Excellent film.
It wasnt a conventional marriage. Although they were together until his death. He was gay and self conscious about that as well as his looks but he was a dear man
I think she just didn't know how to play the game of courtly love that Henry was used to. He also wanted her to fawn over him and she didn't even realize who he was upon first meeting him. This offended his huge ego. Also, she was educated in a different manner than he was used to. It wasn't all about singing, dancing, and embroidery. She was taught more practical useful skills fitting her station in life. Their two cultures were worlds apart. The fact Henry kept Holbein on as court painter says alot. The painting probably was accurate.
Anna Cleves' situation was actually very similar to Catalina of Aragon. Her Mother was the Queen Regnant, ruling in her own right, and her daughters were taught to run a kingdom effectively. Anne was taught all her life about diplomacy, tactics, resource management, people management, and everything else a monarch needed to know. As the "Spare" who was never expected to rule, Henry was woefully ignorant of everythign he actually needed to know. Literally the only things Henry really learned well was how to "Be Noble" which is to speak elegantly, read and write, ride the hunt and joust, and the basics of begetting kids, but he learned absolutely nothing of statecraft or diplomacy or resource management.
Love Why Files
Anyone considered another explanation, that he was not able to perform?
And he had to act if he did not like her to cover the real reason?
'Divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded, survived.' I first heard this at The Tower in London, as a means of remembering what happened to all of Henry's wives.
I enjoyed your video, but I think it would improve future videos to either boost the volume of your voice or turn down the background music. Even no music at all would be better.
When the music is so loud it muffles the story.
Painting shown is of Lady Jane Grey’s execution. Not Catherine Howard.
I caught that too
A lot of this is wrong. Henry was NOT a Protestant; he kept the articles of the Catholic faith, except the Pope thing.
But being an ex-communicant no Catholic was allowed to ally themselves to Henry, so he had to look to Protestant monarchs for alliances and possible brides.
He couldn’t change everything over night. The 39 Articles took some time to craft, draft, and pass. If he could’ve come up with them when he declared himself the head of the Church of England, he definitely would’ve. He certainly had NO desire to be a Catholic and it was not just about he pope. 🙄
@@ditzygypsyIt might not have been "just about the pope," but I disagree. It's my conviction that Henry went to his grave a convinced Catholic. Thomas Cranmer had to hide his wife from him, and the English Protestants looked to Catherine Parr as a mediator, since they couldn't publicly practice their faith (all that was near the end of Henry's life). Henry wrote a long diatribe against Martin Luther before the English Reformation. True, he had the Great Bible published, but most services continued in Latin. I'd like to know what evidence you have of Henry being so cautious and playing the long game, when everything else he did, from the Act of Supremacy to the Dissolution of the Monasteries, was rapid and impulsive (and also unpopular). Anne Boleyn and Henry frequently quarreled over her sympathy for Protestant ideas.
Furthermore, "just the pope" was no small issue. It can be traced all the way back to the arrival of Augustine in Kent in 597, bringing the Gregorian reforms not only to the English, but to the Britons who had already been Christian for at least two centuries. The Britons were absolutely Catholic, but without the oversight of the pope. The English Reformers hearkened back to that time. That's why the clarion call of the English Reformation was not "indulgences are bad," or "baptizing babies is bad," or "the idea of the Real Presence in the eucharist is black magic," but "the Bishop of Rome has no authority in this realm."
@@ditzygypsy Wrong again. Henry remained a convinced Roman Catholic all his life, and practised the rites (as far as he was able, as an excommunicant). You appear to be singularly anti-Roman Catholic and also extremely dogmatic in your own views.
Anne became very rich from Henry. She owned much real estate and was an admired woman even by Henry in his later years. She faired better by far than any of his wives. She was the lucky one.
I'm already long familiar with this theory; I read it decades ago. But I'm sure that Anne of Cleves knew very well that Henry hadn't consummated the marriage. She also knew his habit of executing unsatisfactory wives, and was quite willing to give him all the information he needed to merely annul the marriage. It worked brilliantly for her, because Henry was so grateful to her for giving him what he wanted that he was quite generous in the --divorce-- annulment settlement.
Another reason the marriage failed was that Anne wasn't well-educated, and thus couldn't discuss intellectual subjects with Henry even if there hadn't been a language barrier. After being cut free from Henry, Anne took advantage of her enlarged circumstances to educate herself and improve her English. This may be why she thought there was a chance for Henry to find her more appealing after Catherine Howard's execution. Apparently the common people were in favor of her becoming queen, but Henry still wasn't interested.
It's interesting that Hans Holbein the Younger remained the official court portraitist after this debacle. Either Henry had to concede that the painting was accurate... or he saw the advantage of having an artist with the ability to realistically flatter his subjects as court painter. 🤣🤣🤣
Anne bolyen was the only one executed before Anne of Cleves.
Seriously, if you give the situation a little thought, the idea that Anne was "poorly educated" does NOT hold water. Her mother was literally Queen Regnant ruling in her own right, in a country that firmly approved of and supported education of women. Anne and her sister were given royal education since birth, there's no possible way she was "slow witted" nor "ignorant" of literature. But, she was educated in German not in English.
Everyone knew that Henry was a stupid, bitter, hateful man who brutally punished any hint of intelligence in a woman. Anne wanted to survive. So yes, acting "Dumb" got her laughed at, but she also survived henry AND spent her whole adult life being rich as hell because of that act. Showing her true intelligence would have gotten her nothing but an early grave. I think she played the long con and won bigtime.
He treated her very well after the divorce, giving her 2 stately homes, annual allowance for staff, food & clothes etc.... there is evidence he referred to her as his dear sister. He seemed to do everything to keep her on his side.
He never killed off his wives with royal ancestry, Katherine of Aragon & Anne of Cleves were royalty, it would have caused wars. Unlucky for Anne Boleyn & Catherine Howard who were cousins born from the same gene pool of lower aristocracy, easily disposed of in his eyes. Katherine Parr, I believe was a marriage of convenience as I think he was impotent but needed a Queen at his side to keep up appearances, she out lived him only to die during childbirth in her next marriage.
He was a real prince. What generosity to only kill the wives with modest ancestry.
I believe he married Katherine Parr so that she could take care of him!
The music is too loud and drowns out the narration. Sad
Salute to Anne. She would have been a real top celeb today. Would have loved to have met her.
What is creepy (in historical context) about sending a court painter to paint candidates? That was only the norm everywhere in Europe in that age...
Considerably less creepy than selfies and dating apps, I would have said.
Agree 100%, especially with your final sentence.
This was very wonderfully enlightening. I've seen many videos of Ann of Cleaves, but I found out more interesting details from your video. Thank you!
Anne of Cleves, or Anna van Cleef. But definitely not 'Ann'.
The music is highly distracting.
Wow and she was only 41 when she died. That seems young especially since she didn't have the dangers of not going through childbirth.
The video component of this show was great! So many interesting and entertaining movie clips and art pieces. You have a very nice speaking voice- please turn the music volume down so that we may enjoy listening to your excellent content. The music was nice, just quite too loud! Thank you!
I could barely hear the narration through the music.
This was interesting and entertaining, and had info I hadn't heard before, thank you!
Why oh why the music!!!
One of those guys that once rejected starts calling the woman ugly and worse.
Please consider lowering or losing the background music. It was so hard to hear you. You and your info is way more important than that music loop ... It is so loud and your voice was so soft.
Anne was a girl who knew how to land on her feet. Big props.
Some constructive criticism: When editing turn the dramatic music down so it doesn't drown out your voice, turn up your voice a little in the audio mix, don't try too hard to build suspense when you've already got an interesting topic. If you need to stretch out a video for runtime don't stall and try to hype up the topic, but fill it in with narrating details of their history. It takes some more research work but is much more palatable to the watcher and gives history nerds more core content. Have faith in your hook and don't feel the need to repeat it several times. People who click off the video after the first time you give the hook aren't the audience you're going for.
You may wish to go to your device's sound settings and adjust your equalizer...makes a world of differene!
@@barbaraperry5023 That's possible, but considering most videos on TH-cam I don't have this problem with I'm pretty sure it's this video in particular.
Agree
@@Bettertimes2025 And choose period-appropriate music.
Holbein wasn't on a creepy mission. Back before photography, royals often sent a painter to make a portrait of a proprospective bride. It was a standard practice. Calling it a creepy mission is applying todays ways and standards to the Tudor era.
King Henry gave Anne of Cleves Hever Castle which was Anne Boleyn's childhood home. When he asked her to never leave England and remain as his 'sister', he was in effect keeping her hostage. Some sources say Anne of Cleves was Catholic but converted to Protestantism for the marriage to Henry and then switched back. Mary Tudor lst had given her a lavish Catholic funeral.
you should raise the volume of the music cause i still hear the narrator
The portrait you showed of what was supposed to be Catherine Howard’s execution was, in fact, a depiction of Lady Jane Grey’s execution by Paul Delaroche and hangs in the National Gallery in London 😊
Exactly.
Ann of Cleves got the best deal of all Henry's wives! Kudos to her!
Can’t watch any longer.
Music is too horrible.
She was certainly lucky to be rejected and did very well for herself as an independent woman.
Excellent video but the “background” music was to loud.
Music too loud and distracting.
at the V&A (online) there’s a miniature of Anne by Hans Holbein that shows a very pretty young woman with a flirty look. Henry, in turn, was grotesque. I am so glad The King’s Sister survived.
It's hard to hear some of the text, because of the LOUD music!
Music too loud and drowns out narration!!!
You overdid the volume of the music. Scale it back next time.
Wonderful videoxxxthank you for sharingxxx
The legendary actors Charles Laughton and Elsa Lanchester, seen here as Henry VIII and Anne of Cleves in the classic film "The Private Life of Henry VIII", were husband and wife in real life!
At 7:14 the picture used wasn’t the execution of Katherine Howard, but it was the execution of Lady Jane Grey
We know Henry had STIs. She was lucky he didn’t sleep with her. But it also meant that Henry might not have been able to preform
"PERFORM", NOT 'PREFORM'
@@rachelhenderson2688 Possibly merely a typing error. Easily done.
I loved the video! It earned my subscription!
They became good friends and she held the unofficial title of the King's sister. For a time she was one of the wealthiest people in England. I'd say they got on pretty well just not as husband and wife.
It is said that leadership has a big problem: everyone wants to be on your "good" side even if it means to diminish and forgive your mistakes and excessively praise your achievements. It is also said that only true friends will actually tell you the truth.
I can imagine that after some time, when the tide had settled, Henry might have found her awkward simplicity and truthfulness somewhat refreshing. If you already called the King a fat, smelly, ugly old man and survived, you can tell him everything else, the good and the bad.
If I was him, I'd rather trust her words rather than those of the not very reliable yes-men courtiers. It might very well be that Henry learned to love her more as a companion, a friend, rather than a spouse. That would be a very good reason to call her his "sister" and fill her with presents.
By the way, 42 years of age for a noble woman in the 16th century is quite the achievement. At the time, they were mostly an hair-producing machine, and most of them died of childbirth complications after many pregnancies, usually before turning 30. Anne was able to avoid that fate by "belonging" to the King but not being actually married to him.
In addition to being modest, she was also an astute woman who knew Henry well enough not to fight against his wishes.
As a young man, Henry the VIII was apparently quite sensible and kind. I think he fell off his horse once, hit his head, and from that time onward became incredibly cruel.
I have heard that too. Henry sustained the injury to his head and leg at a jousting tournament in France, and after that his personality changed. If this is true, then it's quite probable, medically speaking.
The painting purporting to show the execution of Katherine Howard, is actually a painting of Lady Jane Grey, and even that was painted in 1833.
If you have a chance, watch the movie from the 1930s whose clips are shown in this video. Elsa Lanchester was Anne of Cleves and her real-life husband, Charles Laughton, played Henry VIII. I believe the film is called "The Six Wives of Henry VIII".
Anne may have had the courtesy of burial in Westminster Abbey, but wife #3, Jane Seymour, had the greater honour of lying in a coffin next to Henry in a vault under the Quire of St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle.
1:29 It wasn't a creepy mission but standard practice in that time without photos.
Why is it creepy to want a picture of the person you’re possibly going to marry? Really? 😖
That's how it was done.
Very interesting yet it's very hard to understand with that overly loud background music.