Optimum MB4 milling machine - Optimum MB4 Fräsmaschine
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ค. 2015
- I did some testcuts on a friends RF45 clone to see if that machine fits my needs - Showing some cuts in mildsteel and toolsteel and also taking a view on my new milling machine setup in the shop.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Hey STEFAN
U are the one of the few Toolmaker's on the whole world-wide "YouT" who has not kicked or downgraded an Asian product, but has actually gone out and bought another, whilst having reasonably good things to say about Your acquisition.
Really strange and difficult for us to swallow from the derogatory remarks we were inundated with on Forums and even the other "exhibitionist Machinists" ruling the roost presently.
Good to hear something totally unbiased, impartial and different for a change !!!
And all this when U have the finest, precision Engineered, absolutely flawless, and perfect Tooling in the DECKEL's, WEILER's and SCHAUBLIN's right in Your backyard !!!
Way to go, Man !!!
We were intending getting an smaller OPTIMUM lathe some time back and were totally put-off by our more "learned" Friends who, sadly, had zilch to say about "IMPORTS".
Well, what'd U know ........always...."THE SINGER NOT THE SONG" !!!
May U have full use and continued service from Your new acquisition
aRM
Phew! I'm so relieved that you've got a mill back in your space! I'm glad you choose what you did; most of the stuff you do would be a little silly on a Bridgeport. Thanks for sacrificing for our edification! Teach on!
Congratulations, Stefan
Can't wait to see upgrades to the machine in feature videos
Congratulation. It seems that you are going to be happy with the new machine. Good lock.
3rcamera Thanks!
I'm really eager to see more videos with you and this milling machine. I also have an Optimum catalogue lying around here and am very interested in those machines.
Nice video, and very interesting you opted for this machine. Myself I have an old lathe by Simonet (Swiss made, 102) which came with some very interesting options including a thread cutting mechanism etc. I was lucky to get it, but looking at this video I see more and more the need to get new stuff. We can't keep using the technology of the 50's for ever. Therefore it is very valuable that you buy these kind of machines and you show how you improve them. Of course this is not a task for everyone, but definitely motivating us to look for other directions. Thank you!
I recently saw a 102 Simonet, those are realy nice machines, I would not mind one of them ;)
Nice to hear that! You have some pictures, please check your email inbox :)
Just watched the update vid too👍ive got a bf16, the littlest optimum mill, and i love it. Did a 3 axis dro recently, its great👍👌🇦🇺
Congrats on the new machine.
Slowvannah Farms Thanks!
1:50 "... and the sound of the machine doesn't really change, except for the occasional church bell sound emanating from it." ;-)
Hey buddy. Great mill you go there. Works perfect. And glad to see you in front of the camera ;)
BasementShopGuy Hey! I will try to show myself a bit more when its suitable :)
Look forward to seeing your new toy in use!
Moen I Me too! There will be some projects soon where I use it extensively :)
Hi Stefan,
I have basically the same machine and when i trammed the column i found it difficult to get a consistent reading by just winding the head up/down the column.
This ended up being because the dovetail on the column and the female dovetail on the head are narrow and quite short, this caused the head to move around as i wound it up/ down.
I found that if i set the head up at its highest position the locked head and set my indicator to zero then unlocked and lowered the head and locked it again i got more consistent readings and fortunately my column trammed ok.
It only takes a very small amount of play to give a large difference on the indicator as the quill is a long way off the centre line of the pivot point on female dovetail and also a long way out off the column so everything is magnified .
Your machine looks to be of a better build quality than mine !
My local supplier is now starting to sell the optimum brand and from what i have seen they seem ok.
Ian
I just bought this exact mill cant wait to get it all set up. Thanks for the video
Amy updates on your purchase? Could you recommend IT or not? Thanks!
@@Slavko_Husam yeah I can recommend it, although make sure you have it appropriately mounted or you will get a lot
Of chatter
@@duane1234561 did you consider making a CNC out of IT ? Like diy CNC conversion ?
@@duane1234561 did you consider making a CNC out of IT ? Like diy CNC conversion ?
@@Slavko_Husam yes but at present it is beyond my skill set... one day though
Pretty good and informative video as always, thank you Stefan.
I'm also looking for a new bigger machine to replace my little proxxon. I was looking for the same mill as you, but the longer table version (Industrial Hobbies mill). Unfortunately I couldn't find it in Europe. So now I thinking in the Warco WM18, is similar as the BF30 but in long table version that optimum does not have in their catalog.
Hallo Stefan,
schön, ein ein bisschen mehr von dir zu sehen als nur deine Hände ;o) Und Glückwunsch zur Fräse!
Søren Hansen Ich hab ja gesagt dass ichs versuche :)
Danke!
What was your motivation for selling your CNC mill and starting over with a different mill?
Stefan, Hi, I enjoy your videos very much. Thank you for producing them. My wife is from Muenchen and I travel occasionally to Germany. What city do you live in? Also, is there a version of your milling machine type here in the USA? Thanks again. Kurt, Seattle Wa.
Stefan, your videos have been incredibly helpful and informative. I have a Sieg C4B lathe that in many respects is similar to yours and the videos about modifications and improvements have been eye-opening. I'm actually curious about your opinion on Wabeco milling machines, and why you opted for Optimum. Was it price-to-performance/size issues in relation to your Optimum MB4? Was it just budget constraints? Thank you
That looks like a nice machine. It will be interesting to see how you handle the shim/rigidity problem. Thanks for sharing.
cerberus I will use a epoxy thats also used on big machines to cast between the surfaces of the base and the column - I did this also on my lathes headstock and it worked very, very well :)
Stefan Gotteswinter Could you please add a link to the product you're using?
Zorgoban I second that vote.
Hi Stefan!
I really enjoy your videos and have had the opportunity to learn so so much from you so far.
On your video where you cleaned all the parts of the milling machine (screws etc.) with your Ultrasonic Cleaner. Just got one myself and I am wondering what cleaning solution you used?
Hello stefan, i have a similar rf45 style milling machine. What type carbide end mills do you recomend for cutting steel?I use chinnese 3fl high helix end mills for aluminum that i also use to cut steel (i dont cut so often steel). I made a part from 01 tool steel and i wasnt able to cut deeper than 1mm ....
Thanks for the video, this is one of the machines I've been thinking of buying. You said that the spindle had Morse taper #4 in your machine? Because the machine version I've been looking at from HBM is with ISO30 taper. Not very much on eBay for tooling for it, but easily found from pretty much any tooling supplier for industry :)
I hope it does well for you. New machines are always nice and fun.
bcbloc02 I will see how it works out for me :)
I am looking forward to see your video tramming the head collumn. My mill (sieg x2 mt3) is also tilted a little bit towards me so I always have a step when I make facing cuts. Can you please show then how to determine if the tilt is in the head or the column?
Morkvonork Just for tramming sweep the table with an indicator (And run an indicator down a known accurate square) - Then shim or scrape the column according to that. Thats the supershort description - I think there are thousand tutorials on the interweb about tramming the X2 :)
Love you're channel. It's become a favorite of mine. Is your intention to cnc convert the mill in the long run or are you satisfied with the rf45 and pantograph as a substitute?
Thank you! I am very happy with the combination of those two machines, the RF45 is a real workhorse, can do quite fine work and also more heavy duty stuff. The pantograph fills the gap for work that cant be done with the rotary table :)
hi Stefan,i have a question for you.i wanna buy this mill and build a stand for it.is it a good idea have a stand with casters?might be causing that any problems like vibrations or something else compare to sitting the mill stand straight on the floor? (i like have tools and machines easy to move)
Thx for your channel Stefan. Do you have any video of dro installation on your rf45. I have a similar clone from Warco and it’s an upgrade I’m investigating. What length scales did you use. Thx again. Keep up the good work.
Hi, No video, but I have photos and text here:
gtwr.de/shop/pro_optimum_mb4/glasscales.html
Stefan Gotteswinter thx. Will you continue your simplex engine series.
I noticed your friend's RF45 has some brackets on the top of the column that I guess are bolted to the wall for extra stiffness, what is your opinion on that solution?
hello again, I could always help me turn my optimum MB4 cnc ?
maue the biggest problem is where and how to apply the stepper motor to the z axis .
Thanks and since already has done a great job with their equipment .
if power is soon to answer.
congratulation Stefan.
I'm very curious to see what your solution for the column is. I have only shimmed the column on my rf 45 clone as i have not figured out how to improve on the tramming i got with the shimms
cheers
Philippe
Phil's Projects Thank you! I will use a special epoxy to cast the column in place - That produces a perfect fitting mating surface without scraping (I dont want to lift the head and column down without a crane again..).
Btw. Subbed to your channel :)
Thats Great I can not wait to see you do that.
Thanks for Subscribing, Im A total Noob at this and learn a awful lot from people like you and the rest of the machining comunity.
Hello Stefan,
That's a capable machine for it's size, if you use it within it's capacity it will serve you well.
Are you planing to implement some CNC features like your friend's machine...?
My Friend Philippe from: Phil's Projects has one just like this one and he had to shim the column, it will be interesting to see what you come up with to improve the rigidity problem...
Cheers, Pierre
Hi,
How come you didn’t use vfd? Isn’t that possible with this motor?
Hey Stefan , why did you get rid of the schaublin machine
Where did you buy this machine? I live in the US, how can I get one? I wonder how this compares with the bridge port, the BP is like 3 times the size of the MB4... I don't understand how the MB4 holds better tolerances than BP.
Stefan do you remember the rpm of thoes test cuts?
Being as how the video is over 3 years old, I sort of doubt this post will be read; but here goes anyway.....
I noticed the mill in your friend's shop appeared to have some support structure between the column and the shop wall. I would imagine this added quite a bit of rigidity and it probably showed in your test cuts. I know that you later trammed in your own mill with epoxy. Did this process provide enough rigidity to duplicate the cuts made on the other machine? Is anchoring the column to a wall a common practice or actually something of a requirement with bench type mills? Any input from yourself, or anyone in the know, would be appreciated. I've been pondering the Precision Matthews PM 940M and while it appears to be a royal beast of a bench mill, rigidity is relative in such heavily cantilevered designs. To that end, I noticed you had dual gas springs on the head; was that OEM or another project? Again, thanks for taking the time and effort in creating such cool and informative content without it becoming tedious; the latter not an easy task sometimes.
Hi Stefan! I'm glad you are happy with your new mill so far. Can you share a little bit about the stand it's on? Either here or the FB page would be great. I'm finally healing up and about to make my replacement stand for my mill that got damaged in the move a few months ago.
Thank you in advance and I appreciate your sharing videos.
Sincerely,
Tom Z
Tom Zelickman Hey Tom, The stand is supersimple, just welded up a table from 60x60x3 and some 30x30x3 square tubing, tackwelded with TIG and then welded up final with stick.
I made the stand so the machines table is at 1,3m height, so I can work on the machine sitting on a high chair or standing.
Stefan
Yeah, that's about the dimension I was thinking too. Thank you, sir!
Very nice machine, impressive motor output for its size.
The tool steel you were test cutting is a D2 tool steel according to the search function on Matweb's home page, useful little gadget to cross reference materials standardised in various countries.
***** Thanks for checking the material - I only know the DIN and ISO material codes :)
Hi Stefan,
Did you put something between the mill and the table (rubber) or is it steel on steel?
BR
Jo
Hi,
Yes, I have 4mm rubber between the mill and the table. Would not do it that way again. I would bed the mill on shims and/or epoxy.
Hi Stefun, I have a question... how did you move those machine tools down to a basement shop? I am in the process of moving a 12" shaper down to my basement... through the stairs of course. What seems most aggravating to do
Trough force of will :D
Every one of them was taken apart and then moved down by hand...but the machines where not that massive like a 12" shaper...
Stefan Gotteswinter Exactly. The immense force of will is the key! There of us were able to move most of the shaper parts down to the basement during the weekend.... minus the base. Which I think requires the fourth man.
Looks like a nice machine.
Definitely way better quality than what I have, my gear head is a lot noisier than yours. Just out of curiosity, what deflection do you get on the head/column - in my case if I put a dial indicator between the head and the table and pull down on the head I think i get close to 10 thousands of an inch which is horrible, wondering how much better the dovetail column is compared to the round one.
sharp x I get enough deflection ;)
With roughing there is quite a lot of movement but thats what finishing passes are for..
sharp x yeah I am astonished at how quiet his gear head is. Mine makes a racket. There seems to a lot of backlash on the high gear setting.
Im close to changing the oil on the head, I am probably getting close to 100 hrs of run time, I am thinking of going to synthetic. I may also consider changing to a belt drive with a VFD to get better speed range and smoothness. I would like to know if anyone has done a conversion and been able to keep the power down feed.
mine is so loud in high speed I never use it. the other thing I noticed on Stefan's is that the oil sight is way up, on my head is below the quill crank level.
It's a nice machine, but a tad big for the average backyard shed. 1.4m from base to top of motor and 2.1m if you get the standard 72cm stand.
Not going to be able to fit this in my metal shed 😭
What is your friends youtube channel?
Hallo habe eine Opti F45 erworben, ich möchte auch umbauen, hast Du noch Ideen oder was würdest Du heute anders machen? Gruß Ralf
warum hast du die cnc maschine verkauft?
👍
Hi,, first off let me tell you I like your channel! 2nd I am looking at a Optimum BF46 Variable speed Milling machine can you give me you opinion of these machines?
Whats your opinion on the variable speed machines?
The BF46 is a chunky machine, it has heavier castings than the MB4 I got - As far as I know the variable speed solution of the machine is done either with a VFD or a servo drive, so should not be an issue. I would prefer a 3phase machine for simplicity.
Havent used a BF46 myself, but the 40 taper is a nice bonus.
@@StefanGotteswinter Are you still happy with the quality of the Optimum machines?
The correct thing to do to the column is to scrape it in, both surfaces. It will then be far more rigid and stable than from the factory, and as accurate as you want to make it as well. Do you have enough height under your ceiling to reach the upper Zed limit of the machine?
***** Agreed there, scraping would be a perfect solution. But there is another one out of the world of big machine tools: epoxy! On big and bigger machines mating surfaces are aligned with shims or jackscrews and then there is a special epoxy injected which gives a 100% fit between the surfaces.
I did this on my lathes headstock and it worked beautyfull, a perfect fit to the machines bed.
And no, I loos about 50mm travel, but I wanted the machines table that high as I am pretty tall :)
Stefan Gotteswinter Stefan, I was wondering about that as well. I thought perhaps cutting a hole in the ceiling would solve that problem... :-) Great video, cool machine. Now you have me thinking that a mill that size might be a asset in my shop... Mmmmm.....! Also, any chance you could do a short video on the epoxy Z solution? I'm curious how you do that exactly. Cheers, Daniel...
und hat die maschine einen vorschub?
Hi,what is price of this machine?
I am just curious why you didn't go with a bridgeport or a clone?
zomie1 We are living in Europe and Bridgeport is not so widely available here.
zomie1 I dont like the Bridgeport! Its that easy ;)
Here in europe the Deckel and Maho mills are THE standard in toolrooms.
Zorgoban They show up from time to time and when they do they are pretty cheap...
I apologize in retrospect. I should have asked why you didn't go with a "Knee Mill"? I understand it was disrespectful suggesting an American made mill.
@@zomie1 its quite simple...... in Germany, where Stefan lives,
its easier to find a needle in a barn ful of hay, that a Bridgeport mill...... which is not worn out.
His shop is in the basement of his house, so its a very difficult operation....
with all the heavy Bridgeport parts down the narrow stairs etc.
He do mostly small parts, the machine must be in relation of the size of the parts.
I know a lot of these asian machines are rebranded by other companies. Is there an American equivalent of this machine?
Hello Stefan,
I have been viewing your videos for quite a while. Both the organization and presentation of your videos is excellent. I have been considering purchase of a mill similar to the RF45 clone. I am put off by the absence of a powered Z feed for boring. Do you think it is possible to fit a power feed to the head elevating screw to obtain a Z feed? It could be either an aftermarket unit or a modification of the power feed you are making. I would appreeciate your opinion.
John Reese
John Reese Might work - But in fact on that machine I would prefer a powerfeed on the quill as the head is very heavy...
Stefan Gotteswinter I was originally thinking of a knee feed for a Bridgeport clone. That should have adequate torque. In the US there is a Chinese machine sold by Bolton Tool that had built-in X and Y feeds plus power feed on the quill. The machine looks a lot like the RF45. Don't know if it is good Chinese or junk Chinese. Some of the other mill-drill units also have quill feeds similar to a heavy duty drill press.
Hi Stefan,
Nice addition to your shop, but that mill is blinding, its whiter than you are, you'll have to get to the UPS body shop for a pint of Pullman Brown.
Is there anything special about the stand you constructed?
Robert Klein
Thanks, there is nothing special on the stand, its just welded up from 60x60x3 and 30x30x3 square tubing. I designed it that way that the machines table is at about 1,30m height, so I can work on it sitting (for my modellengineering stuff) and standing (for the more heavy machining - Sitting in front of a 100mm slitting saw is a bit concerning ;) )
Funny sidenote: I dont get brown in the sun, I only get sunburn ;)
uhm optimum.. had a milling machine and have a lathe.. both of them need heavy renovation after only a few month and less than 30 hours of runtime.. quality is not great sad to say. :|
Moronicsmurf Yesnokinda - Of course they are no where near a "real" machine tool like a Deckel or Schaublin mill but I had my chinese lathe for about four years before I did anything to it - It worked always flawless and produced pretty precise parts :)
Hope I didnt get a monday-machine :)
I thought you were upgrading!
This is very disappointing, a chinese desktop mill like that is perhaps suitable for an amateur like myself, but for a man of your skill and expertise working on such an inferior machine is cruel and unusual punishment.
I had really expected you to pull some barely used piece of beautiful swiss made precision equipment out of your hat, not this.
Nonetheless, I know you will show what even a mediocre machine can do in capable hands. It will also be interesting to see how you will finish the machine and correct all the mistakes.
stefantrethan Haha, yeah, I think I dissapointed a lot of people :D
But there is a reason to the madness: On that machine I can fix anything with the given tools and machines I have without investing thousands of money-units.
For example, spindle bearings on a Deckel FP1 are horrible expensive and hard to repair.
Also I want to see if I can pull of the work I do on a chinese machine ;)
So far it looks very promising without putting much work into the machine...