I well recall these as a career mechanic. Replacing all 3 engine belts or a water pump was difficult. The power steering pump had pivot and adjusting bolts in hidden locations behind the pulleys and brackets. Some of the early 2.5 X cars had the blower motor resistor on the front of the blower housing. Customer complaint was blower not working. The dog bone type torque struts on the core support to engine would be so worn out the engine would roll back and crush the blower resistor with the intake manifold. These RTV sealed engines leaked oil like sieves after 60,000 miles. Worked for a engine rebuilder in the 80s. It wasn't as noisy as the tech 4 with the rattling worn balance shaft carrier in the pan.
I broke an alternator belt on a -20 day in minnesota. Got a new belt at an amoco that worked on cars. Used the wire cutters on the power steering belt and replaced the alternator belt. I don't think i fixed the power steering belt for weeks.
I had a 1986 Chevy Celebrity with the same engine. I discovered a very simple way to replace the oil filter - turn the wheel all the way to the left before shutting the engine off, and remove it from the right front wheel well. The oil filter is easily accessible from there.
My dad had an early-eighties Cutlass Ciera as a company car. Then my mom later bought a 84 Celebrity, which was passed down to me when she died.I cruised the hell out that car for years with no complaints. I did the wheel well trick as well. I always considered the Iron Duke a simple, reliable (loud!) engine that was easy to work on, although short on off-the-line power. In 88 we bought a Tech-4 Fiero brand new; yeccch! That car should have had a V-8 option.
I took my drivers test in an 85 cutlass ciera that had one of those under the hood. I can still remember the zero effort steering feel the car had. It was very numb by today's standard, but so smooth and effortless. I also remember deciding to wash the engine at the car wash and not being able to restart it because I had gotten that distributor wet. It had to be towed away to the Olds dealership, and I felt really bad, thought I had done something terrible to it. 😂
My 1982 Cavalier had that same R4 A/C compressor it you could hang meat in the car on the hottest days. Those old R12-based systems worked really well.
My first car was a 82 Cavalier. I wish mine had A/C. AM radio was the only option the previous owner ordered. Guy sold it to me because he hit a deer with it but gave me the parts to fix it. Ended up being a dark blue car with a light blue header panel, hood, and fender. Drove it about six years but that vinyl got so hot in the summer months so beach towels came in handy.
I worked as a lube tech at a Pontiac dealership in the late 80’s. The later iron dukes had the oil filter in the oil pan with about a 3 inch plug to remove to get the oil filter out,first year of that had a regular drain plug, ones after that just had the 3 inch oil filter plug to remove to drain the oil. By the of everyday I was covered in oil!
I loved the thermostat design. I could fill the cooling system and let the coolant circulate . Then reinstall the thermostat. All within 5 minutes. This contrasts with trying to purge the air from most engines.
I had two steel bolts in my aluminum thermostat housing (83 Cutlass Ciera sedan). When I had to change the thermostat, corrosion made the bolt head break off. Had to run to the JY to get another thermostat casting.
@@logicthought24 Truth be told, it wasn’t really a bad engine for its say as far as reliability when compared to its predecessor- the Vega engine and its successor-the 2.3 QUAD 4 . The Quad 4 was more powerful. But a lot less reliable. Also, it was more reliable when compared to some of the offerings from other companies such as the Chrysler produced 2.2 engine and especially the 2.6 Mitsubishi produced engine used as the optional engine in the Chrysler K cars. The 2.2 was decent. But it would blow a head gasket if you looked at it wrong. The 2.5 main problem was valve cover gasket leaks and the fact that it was LOUD and rough. It would get you where you needed to go. But you wouldn’t enjoy the trip.😂
@@logicthought24 I think one of the other problems was that they put the engine in cars that were simply too heavy for it. It was decent in the Monza and its clones. It was decent in the X bodies. But when they put it in the A bodies, it was overworked.
My very first car that I paid $75 for had this motor. 1978 Monza and i bought it in 1986. It was only 8 years old but because it lived in Michigan it was terribly rusted out, but it was an excellent first car for me and I really honed my RWD driving skills on dirt roads!
Glad you've got a 1984 car that still runs very well. If it still works - then keep using it. My family had a 1984 Honda Civic that we kept running for 30 years.
I had a 82 olds omega all the way to 2005. I totally rebuilt the 2.5 in 1996. Oil filter, cock the wheels to the left and reach thru the passenger wheel well, easy. I found the distributor cap was easier to get from underneath. I never had issues with steering rack. I had 2 fuel injectors that went bad in the ten years after rebuild. It was a daily no nonsense to and from work beater with a heater that was super cheap on parts since all the post office trucks had these in them for a while.
First off, Tech 4! The "Pancake" compressor is called the R4. I have not seen any excessive seal failures as compared to the old A6. In fact, the seal was designed to weep a little oil (as stated by the GM service manual). Both of my R4's and my A6 are still running R12. Two of them haven't been charged since the mid 1990s. I prefer to rack my car when changing the oil as it makes access really easy but did change it on my back for 25 years. Servicing the cap and rotor is really no big deal given the long service interval. I personally don't like doing the timing gears on the Tech 4. We used to see them come in on occasion with the phenolic teeth missing. Luckily, they aren't interference engines. Valve covers can be a pain too when the EGR valve doesn't want to cooperate. Great video Adam. If you are ever in eastern Wisconsin, feel free to stop by. We can put your car up on my lift and I can show you how we used to service your 80s and 90s car at an award winning Buick Pontiac dealership.
Most people don`t know this but Ford used those phenolic timing gear teeth in their Ford 8N`s! We know as we rebuilt ours in 2001 & were the 1st ones to work on engine. Were surprised to see a tractor engine with that type of timing gear. It also had several teeth missing too. With the rebuild kits all metal gears the engine is nosier than with the phenolic gear.
Adam, all of our GM front wheel drive cars had "morning sickness" from the steering rack in those days. I was in the Service Department at an Olds dealership from 1985 til 1990. Our OE racks were strictly made from an aluminum housing. The power piston would seize in the aluminum bore after last use, and, if you didn't know about this, your first attempt to turn the steering wheel might require a pipe wrench to break it free, and then it was good for the rest of the day. All replacement short gears were rebuilt with stainless steel sleeves to take care of the problem. I've been in some situations with these cars that created a tremendously dangerous opportunity to maneuver. Another infamous problem with these cars was the TCC solenoid that would stick and stall the vehicle when exiting from a freeway. Even worse was the cheap AC fuel pump that would get hot from a long drive, develop excessive resistance, and then stop working. A few minutes or a few hours later, the vehicle would drive with no problem. After dropping the tank, you would find the fuel pump electrical contacts had turned brown due to overheating. Not so good inside of a fuel tank, AND get over the battery change. Enjoy changing a battery in a later Chrysler Corp. vehicle where the battery is installed in the bottom of a front fender!
Power steering pumps were common failure. Try getting one to the side of the road when you steer one handed due to driving with hand controls,, murder on shoulders.
@@KentTeffeteller That's why i POSTED THE 1980'S FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE CARS were junk. I'm glad, Toyota, Honda, and Volkswagen kicked their ass. Corporate dickheads killed the quality of American cars in the 1980's.
Oh yes, I helped my dad change the morning sickness steering racks on our '86 Buick LeSabre and our '88 Pontiac 6000. It started out as morning sickness, but then they would start getting stuck even when hot, like when you're on the highway. A little unnerving when the road curves, you turn the wheel, have no power assist, and when you get some muscle behind it to stay in the lane, power steering suddenly comes back and you oversteer.
Back in the eighties I worked at a quick lube center and the Feiro V6 was the worst oil filter to change along with small block Chevy and Mopar with headers. Burn your arm every time. I still remember the burns. We had a sale one Saturday and I was the only guy in the pit and we had five bays. We did 80 cars that day.
That`s why with my GM engines I always change oil & filter when engine is cold. Became tired of burned knuckles & front of hands. That was a tough day working on 80 cars in one day by yourself!
Brings back memories. I took my 85 grand am 2.5 to my mechanic in 91 for a full tunup. When picking up the car he complained about how hard it was to do. Said he had to put it on a lift, reach up and pull the distributor down at a wiered angle busting up his knukles in the process. I thought at the time it was just a tune up cant be that hard. But understand now. I have always remembered that discussion. Think about it when doing plugs and wires to this day.
Had the same year Grand Am and replaced the distributor myself. Extremely difficult to do in a driveway. Then at 61,000 miles the head cracked and coolant was getting into the combustion chamber. Pulled six heads off other engines and the one I had was less cracked than the other six. This has to be the worst engine GM ever made. The thermostat design was great though.
@@davidp8627 yep, had to get my head gasket done at 100k. Was not that bad, no warped head, just put a new gasket on. One issue was the head bolts were a bitch to get loose. Drove the car years after that. At 170k the car developed a rod knock that got really bad, was so noisy about to throw a rod. Dodge used car dealer gave me 100 dollars for the car. Put that towards the used car I bought there- 1990 Dodge colt. The colt ran good for years then hit a deer, and water stared leaking in the passenger compartment, in winter I would frozen water on the floor and frozen condensation on the inside of the windshield. Had to scrape the outside of the windshield as wee as the inside. That's when I gave up and said I'm not doing this any more. That year bought my first new car 2003 Honda Civic Lx, and drove that 20 years at 250 thousand miles.
Back in the late 80's and early 90's our family car was an '85 Cutlass Cierra Brougham 4-door. Awesome comfort, quiet smooth ride. We made several summer vacation trips with our two teenagers to the Colorado/Wyoming/Montana Rockies (from Oklahoma City and back) that were totally trouble free. It had the 2.5 Iron Duke with the 4 speed Hydramatic. Yep, each trip included crossing the Continental Divide several times, and that Iron Duke was working it's ass off the whole time. What blew me away was the fuel economy. On the way home and out of the mountains, it consistently provided 37 to 39 mpg on 'the flats' of Kansas and the Oklahoma Panhandle areas. Awesome cars for sure, underpowered, yes. Always wondered what the V6 version would have been like.
It’s much beter had one iron duke (blown engine twice) And after that only V6 in X and A body GM excellent engine and the quality is outstanding best years are 1980-88
My first car in 2002 was my parents' 1983 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham. The interior was plush as hell, and once I got the engine running right it was a very nice driving car. I had the V6 version. It had some pretty decent pickup and go, but I don't remember how well it did on gas. Back then I didn't keep track. I miss that car. We finally sold it for scrap after the water pump gave out and my parents were tired of putting money into it. If I had it now I'd be fixing it until it literally couldn't drive any more.
@@santaclause2875 Are you sure about the engine/transmission combination? I don't know if the Iron Duke ever saw a transverse overdrive automatic transmission. It was likely the Hydramatic 125C.
The only V6 options would have been the 3.0 2bbl. Which I had. It had tons of problems. This is why GM dropped it after 3-4 years. The 3800 wasn't refined yet at this point. Then the diesel. But we wont go there. You had the best engine for this year.
I had an '84 Chevy Citation with a fuel injected Iron Duke. The first thing I thought of at the beginning of the video was the distributor and everything associated. How I worked on it was to jack the front end up and put it on jack stands. I then propped my head up under the car and I could see and get to most everything. My brother had the same engine in his Chevy Monza, and the distributor was a lot easier to get to because it was a rear wheel drive car. The engine was turned 90 degrees so the distributor was pointed to the right front fender.
@@johneckert1365 I put an injected Duke in my '48 Willys CJ2A. It wound higher than the Jeep engine did but didn't have as much low end grunt. Didnt miss the grunt very much cause it had 5.38 axles and I don't recall what trans low gear or transfer case low range had in it. All I know I could white-knuckle the (my) junky little jeep up to 55mph for the first time, lol.
@@johneckert1365the distributor on my Rwd 2.5L camaro is in a pita location.. lol. I usually jack the car up on the passenger side to remove the distributor. To replace the failed ignition module. From the top have replace the distributors cap and wires.
I had an '84 Skylark with the Iron Duke, It was a company car. It was awesome in the snow. I Traveled all over the state of Colorado and it did great. neat car back then! Silver with red interior.
Yep, GREAT in the snow. Lots of weight on the front wheels and pizza cutter tires. Not like today when a few inches of snow makes small cars road menaces.
Lol I was GIVEN a cherry one of these about '92-'93. Everybody told me I was the guy to make one run like hell "for a while". Long story short was two big bottles in the trunk one propane one nitrous oxide and it had a reeeeeally long throw "throttle" pedal (completely variable manually controlled NOS). Got it to run 13 flat with tire smoke off the line - once. We tore it down and it had ripped the ribs holding the intermediate planetary gear set in the wimpy Turbohydramatic 125m. What failed wasnt what they were famous for breaking - GM had fixed that and poured money into making the things abuse-proof - but not 350 NOS-boosted horsepower abuse - proof, lol.
I had a neighbor who had a vehicle with the Iron Duke and he loved it! It was a mid eighties Jeep CJ7! Easy maintenance. It wasn’t so much the engine, it was the vehicle engineers.
You can see why the imports were worried about these cars and how they sold so well to start. On the surface they look great. Comfortable with good space and handsome styling. The designers did their job very well. Then the bean counters ruined them. I wish today's small cars were more like big cars, like these were.
I had a radio remote broadcast to do and it was a nice day, so I loaded everything up into my 1982 Citation X-11. Everything fit with more than enough room to spare. The car attracted a lot of college student attention. First, because they had never seen one. Ever. Second, it atsounded them on how much space was in what is now a very small exterior package.
Bought one new in 82 (Citation), my Wife drove that thing to death and never once left us stranded. Later got a Fiero, sold it at 200K and still ran great.
The distributor points in my 1969 Corvette small block with all the ignition shielding. A solid state “One Wire” replacement solid state device solved that little issue.
I love your videos. Brings back memories of the different cars we were detailing back then for our customers and lot. There are always certain things that are a bit difficult, but back then they were made to be repaired, individual parts were, not throw away. Interiors were really easy to remove. All screws in plain sight, not hidden clips with plastic tabs that break off.
I had the Tech 4 in an 88 Fiero and while it doesn't have the distributor woes, the serpentine belt tensioner is an absolute nightmare. For whatever reason removing it opens up a huge hole in the water jacket, so you have to drain half the coolant before you can replace it, which then adds the fun task of burping the Fiero coolant system. On top of that they don't make the tensioner for the Fiero anymore so you have to get a customized Sunbird tensioner from Rodney Dickman which costs about 4x what a normal tensioner costs. The whole process was fairly horrible.
We had an '87 Buick Century with The Duke. At the time (around 1999/2000) I was working as a mechanic so when I did the tune-up, I put the car up on the lift and changed the cap and rotor from underneath.
The serpentine belt on the mid to late 90s Rivieras are really fun withe the way they go THROUGH the motor mount, hope one never breaks when you're on the highway
We had an '88 Pontiac 6000 with a tech 4. It didn't have a distributor so that wasn't a problem, but it did have other mechanical issues. It had the small front brakes that wore out at 15k miles. The canister oil filter in the oil pan needed pliers to remove and always caused a mess. The belt tensioner opened the cooling system when you removed it and caused a mess if you didn't drain the radiator. The belt tensioner and alternator both failed at around 40k miles and again at around 80k miles.
Replacing a failed coil or ign module on the DIS system was almost worse. High mileage cars that were full of rust often times ment the tiny bolts would rust into the coils and break off in the module plate, sometimes flush. If you were being paid by book time, your day just got ruined.
I was praying you would drive it again in this video and you did! Thank you for that and thank you for not succumbing to the millennial/zoomer POV or drone cams which permeate so many videos. You hold the camera with your hand and we feel like we are right IN the car driving it. That's how it's done
Funny you mention GM A6 compressor and the pancake compressor. I was just thinking about that. I had an old Nova with factory A/C and the GM A6 compressor and the vents would get frost on them on a road trip. The A/C in our newer Toyota is very weak (NO it does not need freon/refrigerant). I realize those old compressors used more energy but who cares, when it's hot out I want cold a/c that can adequately cool the car in any weather.
My 1981 Eldorado had the R-4 (Radial 4-cyl) compressor, and even though it had a smaller compartment to cool than previous years, it was never more than adequate.
I've got an 08 Toyota, and I'm very happy with it. But... The A/C is adequate, barely, and nothing more. It works, well, adequately, but I'm still a bit disappointed in it.
@@eyerollthereforeiam1709 Same here. The A/C is our new Toyota sux and struggles to keep interior barely comfortable at anything over 80 degrees. If we lived in Florida I'd probably buy another car that has proven great a/c.
Don't forget, up until 1994 (or thereabouts), almost all automotive a/c systems used Freon 12 as a refrigerant. Its drawback was that it was claimed to damage the ozone layer, so the industry moved to R-134a. I believe that the new refrigerant is not as efficient at absorbing heat as the original Freon-12.
@@martinliehs2513 I understand but then the manufacturers should put in a bigger evaporator or do something to compensate. I'm telling you the a/c in our newer car is very weak, and in my opinion unsatisfactory.
My Grandfather had a Chev Citation hatchback with the 2.8 . They often complained the AC was too cold 😂 That car was super comfortable and had tons of room . I wish I had that car now 😭
I had a few Dodges from this time period with the 2.2L engine. Plugs, distributor, alternator, and a/c compressor are all right up front and easy to service. Timing belt changes are also quite simple. What's not easy is the starter or the turbocharger, very difficult to change.
I had an 85 Citation with this engine. The valve cover gasket was known to leak. Also the rubber bushing on that top motor mount would wear out and cause the engine to rock a bit. Iron Duke never failed me in 100k miles from '86 - '93.
We used an old worn 1/2 distributor wrench to remove the egr valve, gotta remove that to change the v. cover gasket. Funny thing is Felpro offers a premium v. cover gasket now after the majority of these cars are off the road.
Had an 86 celebrity, loved that car but, did 3 valve cover gaskets. The last one was "after market" had reinforcements at the bolt holes. Never had to mess with it again.
Had an '87 with the Tech IV. Engine had an unmistakably unique sound that you could hear coming a mile away with no mods and stock exhaust. Some might call it crude or unrefined, but it's music to my ears.
I worked at a dealer in the early 90's. another HUGE problem with that distributor was water would get in it and either kill the engine or keep it from starting. even a light rain would get the cap wet and the engine starts coughing, sometimes it would clear up but mostly it would get worse.
We ran hundreds of these engines in S10 fleet pickups. Inner city stop and go with multiple drivers. Very dependable. These trucks were abused daily. Only one engine failure and that was on a propane converted truck. Overheated and cracked the cylinder head. Replaced the head and converted back to gasoline no more issues.
This is actually a really good engine. I have one in an 85 S10 that's never had a major overhaul and that ol engine don't do nothing but run & run & run & I don't think you can even blow it up just by driving it because it's been thru absolute hell abused even and never so much as a breakdown other than the in tank fuel pump. You see what I believe the problem is, is that engineers didn't have ANYthing to do with that filter, or that cap, or any of that other crap. Because the Engineers designed and built that engine to be run LONGITUDINALLY, Not Transverse. Everything after that you can't blame the engineers, if I measured you up for a tailored shirt that fit you like it grew off you then after you got out the door walked down the road and got to your house you took it off and stretched it up over your ass, legs thru the arm holes, would you walk in the house and go "I don't know what the hell that idiot was thinking when he designed these Shorts, they dont fit worth a Fuck!"
We had 2 Chevy Celebrities from about 1995-2005--a 1985 with the itty-bitty V-6, and a 1987 with this Iron Duke. I preferred the Iron Duke, the fuel injection was smoother and it was somewhat easier to service. Those cars together gave us more than 200,000 miles of mostly trouble-free service between them. We maybe paid $1,500 for the pair used, and maybe spent that amount in tires and repairs over their extended service life. The most difficult repair was replacing the water pump, but it still wasn't too bad. This was emphasized after I'd had to replace a water pump on a 1994 Pontiac Quad-4. What a nightmare that job turned out to be! Probably the most challenging repair I successfully attempted on an Iron Duke was replacing the clutch in a 1984 Pontiac Fiero. IIRC this required dropping the engine/transaxle from underneath the car. Then, after installing the clutch and re-installing the engine/transaxle, to finish the job properly you needed to replace and re-align the rear struts. A very labor-intensive repair, that was very expensive at the local dealership! Thanks for the memories.
Among the many reasons I love your content is that you bring attention to cars that are interesting yet overlooked elsewhere because they are not popularly regarded as cool or classic. I learned much about the Iron Duke -and enjoyed seeing this car (masterful packaging by GM in a medium-sized car…downright luxurious looking!) Thanks for the great content Adam!
As I recall, my VW Scirocco was very easy to work on. Nothing was hidden and you could get to any of the bolts easily. This was good because the thing broke all the time.
@@soaringvulture Haha after chasing an oil leak in the bell housing area in my 79 rabbit with a Tdi-m, I was able to have the trans on the floor in 35mins. Of course ,doing it 5 times before made me fast. It ended up being a oil galley plug
I had an iron duke in an ‘80 Pontiac Phoenix that I got good service out of. Ran it for about 4 years until I had trans problems. I ran the car hard everyday but kept clean oil in it and serviced it well all the time. It wasn’t fast by any stretch but it did what I needed it to do.
I bought my '80 new--actually ordered it in '79 and it took 6 months to make. I wanted a stick , and they weren't coming off the line very fast. Fuel economy was excellent, room was awesome, but it would not carry hills in 4th gear and that tranny was a dog. Could not keep synchros working. And it jumped out if gear often.
Man I remember those seats. Relative had an ‘87 olds. Most comfortable car seats I’ve ever experienced. I do like how Toyota later did their windshield cowling removal to access those areas. It takes time but it isn’t hard.
Nice to hear about the steering rack - I planned on changing the fluid in my A body. Good shape car overall. Steering feels great, light, and smooth, but the fluid is very dark. Reddish brown on a paper towel, but appears as burned chocolate milk in the reservoir.
My former wife, as her first car, bought a '78 Chevy Monza with the Iron Duke. Bulletproof, indestructible! Air conditioning DELETE! 35 mpg. We drove that car cross-country on leave one year between SoCali & MI.
Something for this list: the AC expansion valve on the W126 S Class. It's up in the dashboard, above the accelerator pedal. Ok, not so bad... except all the fittings are large flare nuts. The 2 on the top are super difficult to get to!
Ugh... . I had a 2.5 Iron Duke as a Tech 4 version in my '91 Pontiac Grand Am. With the electronic ignition, they put the crankshaft position sensor on the back of the coil mounting plate (which also housed the ignition control module) about where this distributor is located on your Olds. For some reason, the sensors didn't last but about 40K miles, and maybe less depending on the quality of the replacements. Getting to all that was a major grief. Finally, the ignition control module on my car failed at about 260k miles and I sold the car to save me the aggravation of pulling it apart again. The car certainly served me well but that weakness of the ignition system always lent a certain insecurity about depending on the car for extended driving.
I had it in a '90 Grand Am, Mother in '86 Buick. Not a powerhouse, but the Iron Duke was enough and a reliable soldier, direct descent of the Blue Flame Six. On my throttle body unit, injector for the 2.8 V6 made a significant difference in performance. Upgrade the 3.1 with a 3.8 injector for similar results. Problem was it was designed for RWD, making it difficult to service in FWD application. Not only was the distributor back there, so was the often neglected oil filter. With dextrous hands and patience, the extra work can be avoided.
Yes, best thermostat design ever! And the entire thermostat was actually held down snuggly by having the handle you pull to remove kept in place by the thermostat housing cap itself.
I remember lots of broken head bolts , the 3 by the exh manifold. Then they leaked coolant. Was difficult sometimes getting those dam bolts out. Good memories :)
I had the 87 Buick Skylark with the 4tec version of that 2.5L engine. Changing the oil was a pain because it had the cartridge style filter inside the oil pan. However, there wasn't a separate oil drain plug to drain the oil first. You removed the large filter plug to drain the oil and get access to the filter. Could be very messy if you aren't careful. My car also had a power steering failure in that there was power assist when turning right but not left. My car was the same color of maroon / burgundy as your car. Mine was a 5 speed manual and I would get about 44 MPG on the highway. It had the digital dash as well. I loved that car but someone else decided I didn't need the car anymore and side swiped me and totaled the vehicle.
We bought one new in 1986 and put 245000 miles on it b4 it rusted so badly that we had to take it off the road. Have to agree with you about the distributor cap and oil filter. It also ate front brakes at an astounding rate until we started to use carbon metallic pads on it and that cured the brake problem. We love your channel. How do you manage to find so many wonderful cars. Do you have an inside track on a Florida retirement community? haha.
Another exception besides the S10 was the Fiero you mentioned. Since the X-car engine cradle was just slid rearwards, the distributor (and alternator) was right in front of you while looking at the mid engine from behind the car. But that made reaching the plugs & O2 a PIA!
@ 9:38 one of the first series of the Delco ETR Radios. No set button, you would pull the button out to set the station. Those sounded pretty good also
I had two 2.5 Citations, an '84 and an "85. With no AC the distributor was very easy to get too. We had a '86 Ceutury with AC but it still wasn't ot hard to get to the Distributor. As for the Oil Filter, just turn the steering wheel all the way for a left turn. Sit on the floor and it is an easy reach to remove the Oil Filter. With thae small size I could twist it righ off with out a wrench. My Citations were 4 speed manual transmission and had plenty of power . I used them to pull a small boat all over the Pennsylvania mountains and never got in anyones way. I bought my '84 new and it had over 230,000 miles when I sold it to a guy that ran it over 300,000. I bought the '85 with only 169,000 and put over 40,000 on it.
I once agreed to try and get Cimarron powered by one running... sitting in the middle of a business center's parking lot, on a freezing cold day. Trying to blindly reach around the block, only to change the plug wires, was a nightmare! Thankfully, the wire & plug change was enough to get it running. I forget what I told the father of the owner--who was a friend of my father... hence why I agreed to do the job--what I felt should be done in follow-up, but I never saw that car again... and damn glad the only other 'Duke I ever worked on was in my first truck: A fleet trim S-10, handed-down from my cousin.
The Cimarron was never powered by the Iron Duke. It initially had a 1.8L pushrod Chevrolet four cylinder, then a 2.0L version of the same engine, and finally a 2.8L V6.
1970 Triumph TR6-clutch change started with removing the interior including the carpet to remove the transmission tunnel, then transmission. The frame rails were too close together for the transmission to slip by.
I drove one of these back in the day. It was a very comfortable car and that AC will blow frost out the vents when you turn it off. 80hp is a bit dated, but at the time it was enough.
I bought a new '86 Oldsmobile Calais. It had the same 2.5 Tech 4 engine. It had all the same issues you point out here on the Omega. I wanted a Calais with the V6 but in hindsight it was better I had the 4. Under warranty the head bolts broke. In '91 I traded it in for a Quad 442(when was the last time you saw one?). It was involved in a rear end collision and I brought it in to the dealership body shop. The adjuster thought I "made up" the stripes and model call outs until he found it in his crash book. The quad 4 was more robust but it had issues too. Still I loved it and wish I had kept it.
Very nice Oldsmobile! I have celebrity’s myself I’d say the hardest thing I’ve done is replace the camshaft gear it’s made of nylon and eventually breaks it presses onto the camshaft not an easy repair. Great video thank you!
I agree on the other merits of the cars, Adam. Don't remember what year the Cutlass Ciera came out, but a friend had one and it WAS amazingly spacious, plush and quiet. A great car for road trips up and down California... except for that first 20 seconds it took to get up to 60 miles an hour... 😋
My Mom got my grandfather's 86 Celebrity,yes it was a pain to work on. Blew a head gasket due to a broken head bolt and replaced the distributor cap while the head was off.
That cap and rotor wasn't TOO bad. Reach down, under the master cylinder and behind the engine and feel your way around. The worst part was getting the cap over the pulgs on the ignition module. The cap and 2 grooves over the cut out in the cap. When you're feeling your way around it's hard to know if you've got it over the module right. The alternator belt was a bit of a bear because it needed replaced a lot more often than the other belts. The power steering belt had to come off first and that was a little bit tricky to get at all the bolts on the pump. Timing gears were noisy on the R engine, but the U engine in N body cars had a slightly shorter block and had different timing gears, They sounded awful even when new. The vacuum pump...which was where the fuel pump was on the older carbureted versions, was a pain without having the car on a lift. Exhaust manifold cracks were common. GM initially used that orange RTV for the valve cover gasket. NAPA had a nice thick cork gasket that worked well. It had spaces in the bolt holes to prevent crushing the gasket. You had to remove the EGR on the TBI versions. I used a 1/2" distributor wrench that barely fit the 13mm bolt heads to get the EGR bolts out I remember those cars well from my days in the mid 80s as a Buick and Olds tech. In the early 90's I bought an 81 Omega with the 2.5 and a feedback carb with a 4 speed (no AC) for 250 bux. I drove that car for 7 trouble free years
I had a 1984 Iron Duke Celebrity. Other difficult and/or annoying repairs were the water pump and the factory AC lines that didn't have barbs on the fittings, resulting in refrigerant leaks.
Ah, your 84 Omega reminds me of my 85 citation with the Iron Duke 4cyl. Mine got great mileage and had the plus of being a 5dr hatchback with station wagon versatility.
My Dad had the AMCConcord, 81 I believe, with th iron duke motor, but it was rear wheel drive so the engine sat the other way. Now, if you research the bore and stroke, you will see it is identical to the infamous 302 DZ Engine from 69 camaro, so this gives you an idea of it Spirit, it likes to rev.. Also I ended up working in the FLint V8 engine plant and these 4 cylinders were produced in the same plant with the 4 cylinder lines intermingled with the V8 lines, at least it showed on the drawings, but this was 94 so the 4 cylinder lines had been removed by then. I interviewed at the V6 engine plant which was taking off then.
Yep. Remember them well. Tech 88 thru 02. Timing gears were a suck job too. Best they did was DI, oil filter moved to the pan, serpentine belt accessories drive.
My friend had a Chevy Celebrity that he bought from a senior citizen, who had never changed the oil. I think it had about 70k miles on it. Took us an entire day. Similar color, too. Sounds smooth as sandpaper. Nightmares.
Your Omega has some interesting features! Wish my 84 S10 pickup had the straight up hood feature. Yours even has the original amber colored radio display which is kind of rare here in Oregon due to all the wet seasons humidity ruining most of them including my S10`s radio which I had to upgrade to the newer green colored display. That iron duke engine is much quieter than most of those we had at our dealership brand new when I worked as a asst. parts mgr. It still is nosier than our 70 year old Ford 8N tractors though at an idle! I`m glad that I have the 2.8L 'B' engine in our S10 pickup though. For those of you who might be wondering why so many early 2.8`s had crankshaft failures we discovered upon opening up the engine at 122,000 miles our self for the 1st time, the factory did not always have the main bearings in torque specs.or perhaps due to wear the #`s were 1/2 of the values they were supposed to be on the middle main bearings. The middle mains were only 35# instead of the 75# factory manuals said all mains are supposed to be torqued at. The outside mains were right on the correct values.
I had one of these in a S10. It had valve train issues. There was not enough room in the push rod gallery so if you replaced a valve push rod the side of it rubbed against the block until enough metal was worn off. This had to be good for the cam lobes!
Nice car Adam !... kinda off the subject but... I still work on these engines in all kinds of boats. The mercruiser 3.0 140 hp is in a lot of em. Went from 151 cu in to 181 cu in. Some OMC and Volvo use same engine. Still see lots with carbs and distributors ! Easy to work on in a boat.... we got a couple in the yard with that r-4 compressor too !
It doesn't sound loud at all, seems smooth and quiet. That engine is a classic officially.
These things were everywhere, when I was working the pit at Jiffy Lube, from '89 - '91. Lots of ripped up knuckles and burnt skin.
Yeah, I worked at Rapid (Instant oil change). No pit, but a rack, went through the wheel well with a ratchet a long extension with the "claw".
So dang cute! At startup, I felt like the USPS mail truck was making the rounds in my neighborhood 😂
Yeah, our local postie has finally switched to a more modern van, but now I can't hear them arrive! 😂
Same here, I live in a rural area and yes I can hear her arriving and departing. 30+ years with the same old truck.
Petey, my dog gets so excited when he hears an iron duke moaning down the street. He loves our postal carrier.
@@Galfrid Those Metris vans are terrible...poorly designed, expensive to service, unreliable powertrain...
I well recall these as a career mechanic. Replacing all 3 engine belts or a water pump was difficult. The power steering pump had pivot and adjusting bolts in hidden locations behind the pulleys and brackets. Some of the early 2.5 X cars had the blower motor resistor on the front of the blower housing. Customer complaint was blower not working. The dog bone type torque struts on the core support to engine would be so worn out the engine would roll back and crush the blower resistor with the intake manifold. These RTV sealed engines leaked oil like sieves after 60,000 miles. Worked for a engine rebuilder in the 80s. It wasn't as noisy as the tech 4 with the rattling worn balance shaft carrier in the pan.
I am sorry that Adam made you relive those horrors. 😉😉
I broke an alternator belt on a -20 day in minnesota. Got a new belt at an amoco that worked on cars. Used the wire cutters on the power steering belt and replaced the alternator belt. I don't think i fixed the power steering belt for weeks.
I replaced many x car dog bones with moogs little shock engine mount.
@@rightlanehog3151😂
I had a 1986 Chevy Celebrity with the same engine. I discovered a very simple way to replace the oil filter - turn the wheel all the way to the left before shutting the engine off, and remove it from the right front wheel well. The oil filter is easily accessible from there.
My dad had an early-eighties Cutlass Ciera as a company car. Then my mom later bought a 84 Celebrity, which was passed down to me when she died.I cruised the hell out that car for years with no complaints. I did the wheel well trick as well. I always considered the Iron Duke a simple, reliable (loud!) engine that was easy to work on, although short on off-the-line power. In 88 we bought a Tech-4 Fiero brand new; yeccch! That car should have had a V-8 option.
@@themagus5906 well it was a Pontiac engine.
I took my drivers test in an 85 cutlass ciera that had one of those under the hood. I can still remember the zero effort steering feel the car had. It was very numb by today's standard, but so smooth and effortless.
I also remember deciding to wash the engine at the car wash and not being able to restart it because I had gotten that distributor wet. It had to be towed away to the Olds dealership, and I felt really bad, thought I had done something terrible to it. 😂
My 1982 Cavalier had that same R4 A/C compressor it you could hang meat in the car on the hottest days. Those old R12-based systems worked really well.
My first car was a 82 Cavalier. I wish mine had A/C. AM radio was the only option the previous owner ordered. Guy sold it to me because he hit a deer with it but gave me the parts to fix it. Ended up being a dark blue car with a light blue header panel, hood, and fender. Drove it about six years but that vinyl got so hot in the summer months so beach towels came in handy.
Ill give that to GM, the AC always froze ya out!
Today's 134a systems don't come close. They are OK for temp that are under 93, but much over that and they are overwhelmed.
I worked as a lube tech at a Pontiac dealership in the late 80’s. The later iron dukes had the oil filter in the oil pan with about a 3 inch plug to remove to get the oil filter out,first year of that had a regular drain plug, ones after that just had the 3 inch oil filter plug to remove to drain the oil. By the of everyday I was covered in oil!
Correct no drain plug.
I loved the thermostat design. I could fill the cooling system and let the coolant circulate . Then reinstall the thermostat. All within 5 minutes. This contrasts with trying to purge the air from most engines.
I had two steel bolts in my aluminum thermostat housing (83 Cutlass Ciera sedan). When I had to change the thermostat, corrosion made the bolt head break off. Had to run to the JY to get another thermostat casting.
@@logicthought24 Truth be told, it wasn’t really a bad engine for its say as far as reliability when compared to its predecessor- the Vega engine and its successor-the 2.3 QUAD 4 . The Quad 4 was more powerful. But a lot less reliable. Also, it was more reliable when compared to some of the offerings from other companies such as the Chrysler produced 2.2 engine and especially the 2.6 Mitsubishi produced engine used as the optional engine in the Chrysler K cars. The 2.2 was decent. But it would blow a head gasket if you looked at it wrong. The 2.5 main problem was valve cover gasket leaks and the fact that it was LOUD and rough. It would get you where you needed to go. But you wouldn’t enjoy the trip.😂
@@logicthought24 I think one of the other problems was that they put the engine in cars that were simply too heavy for it. It was decent in the Monza and its clones. It was decent in the X bodies. But when they put it in the A bodies, it was overworked.
It was smoother and quieter than that miserable Vega engine though .
My very first car that I paid $75 for had this motor. 1978 Monza and i bought it in 1986. It was only 8 years old but because it lived in Michigan it was terribly rusted out, but it was an excellent first car for me and I really honed my RWD driving skills on dirt roads!
When you buy any personal vehicle, its the smiles per dollar that counts. Cheers Adam.
So true, my rusty old F150 makes me smile everytime I shift through the gears
Have an Iron Duke in my 1986 S15. Real wheel drive positioning makes all the difference as it is very easy to work on.
Glad you've got a 1984 car that still runs very well. If it still works - then keep using it. My family had a 1984 Honda Civic that we kept running for 30 years.
I had a 82 olds omega all the way to 2005. I totally rebuilt the 2.5 in 1996. Oil filter, cock the wheels to the left and reach thru the passenger wheel well, easy. I found the distributor cap was easier to get from underneath. I never had issues with steering rack. I had 2 fuel injectors that went bad in the ten years after rebuild. It was a daily no nonsense to and from work beater with a heater that was super cheap on parts since all the post office trucks had these in them for a while.
First off, Tech 4!
The "Pancake" compressor is called the R4. I have not seen any excessive seal failures as compared to the old A6. In fact, the seal was designed to weep a little oil (as stated by the GM service manual). Both of my R4's and my A6 are still running R12. Two of them haven't been charged since the mid 1990s. I prefer to rack my car when changing the oil as it makes access really easy but did change it on my back for 25 years. Servicing the cap and rotor is really no big deal given the long service interval. I personally don't like doing the timing gears on the Tech 4. We used to see them come in on occasion with the phenolic teeth missing. Luckily, they aren't interference engines. Valve covers can be a pain too when the EGR valve doesn't want to cooperate. Great video Adam. If you are ever in eastern Wisconsin, feel free to stop by. We can put your car up on my lift and I can show you how we used to service your 80s and 90s car at an award winning Buick Pontiac dealership.
Most people don`t know this but Ford used those phenolic timing gear teeth in their Ford 8N`s! We know as we rebuilt ours in 2001 & were the 1st ones to work on engine. Were surprised to see a tractor engine with that type of timing gear. It also had several teeth missing too. With the rebuild kits all metal gears the engine is nosier than with the phenolic gear.
Adam, all of our GM front wheel drive cars had "morning sickness" from the steering rack in those days. I was in the Service Department at an Olds dealership from 1985 til 1990. Our OE racks were strictly made from an aluminum housing. The power piston would seize in the aluminum bore after last use, and, if you didn't know about this, your first attempt to turn the steering wheel might require a pipe wrench to break it free, and then it was good for the rest of the day. All replacement short gears were rebuilt with stainless steel sleeves to take care of the problem. I've been in some situations with these cars that created a tremendously dangerous opportunity to maneuver. Another infamous problem with these cars was the TCC solenoid that would stick and stall the vehicle when exiting from a freeway. Even worse was the cheap AC fuel pump that would get hot from a long drive, develop excessive resistance, and then stop working. A few minutes or a few hours later, the vehicle would drive with no problem. After dropping the tank, you would find the fuel pump electrical contacts had turned brown due to overheating. Not so good inside of a fuel tank, AND get over the battery change. Enjoy changing a battery in a later Chrysler Corp. vehicle where the battery is installed in the bottom of a front fender!
Power steering pumps were common failure. Try getting one to the side of the road when you steer one handed due to driving with hand controls,, murder on shoulders.
@@KentTeffeteller That's why i POSTED THE 1980'S FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE CARS were junk. I'm glad, Toyota, Honda, and Volkswagen kicked their ass. Corporate dickheads killed the quality of American cars in the 1980's.
Oh yes, I helped my dad change the morning sickness steering racks on our '86 Buick LeSabre and our '88 Pontiac 6000. It started out as morning sickness, but then they would start getting stuck even when hot, like when you're on the highway. A little unnerving when the road curves, you turn the wheel, have no power assist, and when you get some muscle behind it to stay in the lane, power steering suddenly comes back and you oversteer.
Back in the eighties I worked at a quick lube center and the Feiro V6 was the worst oil filter to change along with small block Chevy and Mopar with headers. Burn your arm every time. I still remember the burns. We had a sale one Saturday and I was the only guy in the pit and we had five bays. We did 80 cars that day.
That`s why with my GM engines I always change oil & filter when engine is cold. Became tired of burned knuckles & front of hands. That was a tough day working on 80 cars in one day by yourself!
Man, those Uniroyal Tiger Paw tires bring back memories HaHa! High school parking lot doughnuts in a 1970 Chevelle SS in 1986.
Brings back memories. I took my 85 grand am 2.5 to my mechanic in 91 for a full tunup. When picking up the car he complained about how hard it was to do. Said he had to put it on a lift, reach up and pull the distributor down at a wiered angle busting up his knukles in the process. I thought at the time it was just a tune up cant be that hard. But understand now. I have always remembered that discussion. Think about it when doing plugs and wires to this day.
Had the same year Grand Am and replaced the distributor myself. Extremely difficult to do in a driveway. Then at 61,000 miles the head cracked and coolant was getting into the combustion chamber. Pulled six heads off other engines and the one I had was less cracked than the other six. This has to be the worst engine GM ever made. The thermostat design was great though.
@@davidp8627 yep, had to get my head gasket done at 100k. Was not that bad, no warped head, just put a new gasket on. One issue was the head bolts were a bitch to get loose. Drove the car years after that. At 170k the car developed a rod knock that got really bad, was so noisy about to throw a rod. Dodge used car dealer gave me 100 dollars for the car. Put that towards the used car I bought there- 1990 Dodge colt. The colt ran good for years then hit a deer, and water stared leaking in the passenger compartment, in winter I would frozen water on the floor and frozen condensation on the inside of the windshield. Had to scrape the outside of the windshield as wee as the inside. That's when I gave up and said I'm not doing this any more. That year bought my first new car 2003 Honda Civic Lx, and drove that 20 years at 250 thousand miles.
Back in the late 80's and early 90's our family car was an '85 Cutlass Cierra Brougham 4-door. Awesome comfort, quiet smooth ride. We made several summer vacation trips with our two teenagers to the Colorado/Wyoming/Montana Rockies (from Oklahoma City and back) that were totally trouble free. It had the 2.5 Iron Duke with the 4 speed Hydramatic. Yep, each trip included crossing the Continental Divide several times, and that Iron Duke was working it's ass off the whole time. What blew me away was the fuel economy. On the way home and out of the mountains, it consistently provided 37 to 39 mpg on 'the flats' of Kansas and the Oklahoma Panhandle areas. Awesome cars for sure, underpowered, yes. Always wondered what the V6 version would have been like.
It’s much beter had one iron duke (blown engine twice)
And after that only V6 in X and A body GM excellent engine and the quality is outstanding best years are 1980-88
I've never seen a 2.5 FWD that had a 4 speed auto, only a 125C 3 auto behind it.
My first car in 2002 was my parents' 1983 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham. The interior was plush as hell, and once I got the engine running right it was a very nice driving car. I had the V6 version. It had some pretty decent pickup and go, but I don't remember how well it did on gas. Back then I didn't keep track.
I miss that car. We finally sold it for scrap after the water pump gave out and my parents were tired of putting money into it. If I had it now I'd be fixing it until it literally couldn't drive any more.
@@santaclause2875 Are you sure about the engine/transmission combination? I don't know if the Iron Duke ever saw a transverse overdrive automatic transmission. It was likely the Hydramatic 125C.
The only V6 options would have been the 3.0 2bbl. Which I had. It had tons of problems. This is why GM dropped it after 3-4 years. The 3800 wasn't refined yet at this point. Then the diesel. But we wont go there. You had the best engine for this year.
I had an '84 Chevy Citation with a fuel injected Iron Duke. The first thing I thought of at the beginning of the video was the distributor and everything associated. How I worked on it was to jack the front end up and put it on jack stands. I then propped my head up under the car and I could see and get to most everything. My brother had the same engine in his Chevy Monza, and the distributor was a lot easier to get to because it was a rear wheel drive car. The engine was turned 90 degrees so the distributor was pointed to the right front fender.
At first, these 2.5 were only in RWD cars, so the distributor location wasn't an issue.
@@johneckert1365 I put an injected Duke in my '48 Willys CJ2A. It wound higher than the Jeep engine did but didn't have as much low end grunt. Didnt miss the grunt very much cause it had 5.38 axles and I don't recall what trans low gear or transfer case low range had in it. All I know I could white-knuckle the (my) junky little jeep up to 55mph for the first time, lol.
@patrickshaw8595 lol that's AWESOME 😀
@@johneckert1365the distributor on my Rwd 2.5L camaro is in a pita location.. lol. I usually jack the car up on the passenger side to remove the distributor. To replace the failed ignition module.
From the top have replace the distributors cap and wires.
"like a Sunday in TJ, it's cheap but it's not free" -Steely Dan
🎵2.5L Iron Duke, shake it!🎶
I love YT comments sections.
@@johnzamboni7561 that Iron Duke Trio rolled in right on time. They're the 4cyl group making the sound of 3.
I had an '84 Skylark with the Iron Duke, It was a company car. It was awesome in the snow. I Traveled all over the state of Colorado and it did great. neat car back then! Silver with red interior.
Yep, GREAT in the snow. Lots of weight on the front wheels and pizza cutter tires. Not like today when a few inches of snow makes small cars road menaces.
You are not kidding about the AC working really well in these older vehicles.
R12 Freon.
Oh dear lord...... talk about bringing back some unpleasant memories working on a a 80s GM FWD with a Iron Dookie engine. Not to mention driving one.
Lol I was GIVEN a cherry one of these about '92-'93. Everybody told me I was the guy to make one run like hell "for a while". Long story short was two big bottles in the trunk one propane one nitrous oxide and it had a reeeeeally long throw "throttle" pedal (completely variable manually controlled NOS). Got it to run 13 flat with tire smoke off the line - once.
We tore it down and it had ripped the ribs holding the intermediate planetary gear set in the wimpy Turbohydramatic 125m. What failed wasnt what they were famous for breaking - GM had fixed that and poured money into making the things abuse-proof - but not 350 NOS-boosted horsepower abuse - proof, lol.
@@troynov1965 Iron Dookie was the weakest and slowest engine I ever had in any car. 😆
@@erocker78 LOL yeah same for me , It wouldnt pull a greasy string out of a cats ass
I had a neighbor who had a vehicle with the Iron Duke and he loved it! It was a mid eighties Jeep CJ7! Easy maintenance. It wasn’t so much the engine, it was the vehicle engineers.
Had a ‘89 6000 with the tech 4. The water pump was indeed a Royal PITA to replace.
You can see why the imports were worried about these cars and how they sold so well to start. On the surface they look great. Comfortable with good space and handsome styling. The designers did their job very well. Then the bean counters ruined them. I wish today's small cars were more like big cars, like these were.
How did the bean counters ruin them?
@@bradkay Cheapest materials and build quality. The 1980's cars were junk.
I had a radio remote broadcast to do and it was a nice day, so I loaded everything up into my 1982 Citation X-11. Everything fit with more than enough room to spare. The car attracted a lot of college student attention. First, because they had never seen one. Ever. Second, it atsounded them on how much space was in what is now a very small exterior package.
@@garykeith1048 I don't see that the designers did a great job which is what plmn93 is alleging.
Bought one new in 82 (Citation), my Wife drove that thing to death and never once left us stranded.
Later got a Fiero, sold it at 200K and still ran great.
The distributor points in my 1969 Corvette small block with all the ignition shielding. A solid state “One Wire” replacement solid state device solved that little issue.
I love your videos. Brings back memories of the different cars we were detailing back then for our customers and lot. There are always certain things that are a bit difficult, but back then they were made to be repaired, individual parts were, not throw away. Interiors were really easy to remove. All screws in plain sight, not hidden clips with plastic tabs that break off.
I had the Tech 4 in an 88 Fiero and while it doesn't have the distributor woes, the serpentine belt tensioner is an absolute nightmare. For whatever reason removing it opens up a huge hole in the water jacket, so you have to drain half the coolant before you can replace it, which then adds the fun task of burping the Fiero coolant system. On top of that they don't make the tensioner for the Fiero anymore so you have to get a customized Sunbird tensioner from Rodney Dickman which costs about 4x what a normal tensioner costs. The whole process was fairly horrible.
We had an '87 Buick Century with The Duke. At the time (around 1999/2000) I was working as a mechanic so when I did the tune-up, I put the car up on the lift and changed the cap and rotor from underneath.
The serpentine belt on the mid to late 90s Rivieras are really fun withe the way they go THROUGH the motor mount, hope one never breaks when you're on the highway
We had an '88 Pontiac 6000 with a tech 4. It didn't have a distributor so that wasn't a problem, but it did have other mechanical issues. It had the small front brakes that wore out at 15k miles. The canister oil filter in the oil pan needed pliers to remove and always caused a mess. The belt tensioner opened the cooling system when you removed it and caused a mess if you didn't drain the radiator. The belt tensioner and alternator both failed at around 40k miles and again at around 80k miles.
Replacing a failed coil or ign module on the DIS system was almost worse. High mileage cars that were full of rust often times ment the tiny bolts would rust into the coils and break off in the module plate, sometimes flush. If you were being paid by book time, your day just got ruined.
These GM X- Cars from the 80's are becoming very rare and hard to find in any condition these days.
The engineers were thinking "What's the cheapest way to push these off the assembly line?"
And they weren't wondering what people would be saying about them in 2024.
Well it was originally designed to be a rear wheel drive motor and they just got clever and converted it to the front wheel drive with adapters
@@charlesdiggs5297 That's what I was thinking. Doesn't look like it would be bad at all when mounted longitudinally.
@@plmn93 or they could have spun the engine 180 degrees and mounted the differential upside down to reverse the rotation.
Going back farther, these engines are more or less based on the 230 250 292 Chevy inline 6.
Even more fun replacing that fuel filter
I was praying you would drive it again in this video and you did! Thank you for that and thank you for not succumbing to the millennial/zoomer POV or drone cams which permeate so many videos. You hold the camera with your hand and we feel like we are right IN the car driving it. That's how it's done
Love that Maple color interior. Very nice.
I’ve had to replace an ignition module on one of these at night on the side of the road.
😳
Funny you mention GM A6 compressor and the pancake compressor. I was just thinking about that. I had an old Nova with factory A/C and the GM A6 compressor and the vents would get frost on them on a road trip. The A/C in our newer Toyota is very weak (NO it does not need freon/refrigerant). I realize those old compressors used more energy but who cares, when it's hot out I want cold a/c that can adequately cool the car in any weather.
My 1981 Eldorado had the R-4 (Radial 4-cyl) compressor, and even though it had a smaller compartment to cool than previous years, it was never more than adequate.
I've got an 08 Toyota, and I'm very happy with it. But... The A/C is adequate, barely, and nothing more. It works, well, adequately, but I'm still a bit disappointed in it.
@@eyerollthereforeiam1709 Same here. The A/C is our new Toyota sux and struggles to keep interior barely comfortable at anything over 80 degrees. If we lived in Florida I'd probably buy another car that has proven great a/c.
Don't forget, up until 1994 (or thereabouts), almost all automotive a/c systems used Freon 12 as a refrigerant. Its drawback was that it was claimed to damage the ozone layer, so the industry moved to R-134a. I believe that the new refrigerant is not as efficient at absorbing heat as the original Freon-12.
@@martinliehs2513 I understand but then the manufacturers should put in a bigger evaporator or do something to compensate. I'm telling you the a/c in our newer car is very weak, and in my opinion unsatisfactory.
My Grandfather had a Chev Citation hatchback with the 2.8 . They often complained the AC was too cold 😂 That car was super comfortable and had tons of room . I wish I had that car now 😭
I had a few Dodges from this time period with the 2.2L engine. Plugs, distributor, alternator, and a/c compressor are all right up front and easy to service. Timing belt changes are also quite simple. What's not easy is the starter or the turbocharger, very difficult to change.
I had an 85 Citation with this engine. The valve cover gasket was known to leak. Also the rubber bushing on that top motor mount would wear out and cause the engine to rock a bit. Iron Duke never failed me in 100k miles from '86 - '93.
We used an old worn 1/2 distributor wrench to remove the egr valve, gotta remove that to change the v. cover gasket. Funny thing is Felpro offers a premium v. cover gasket now after the majority of these cars are off the road.
Had an 86 celebrity, loved that car but, did 3 valve cover gaskets. The last one was "after market" had reinforcements at the bolt holes. Never had to mess with it again.
Had an '87 with the Tech IV. Engine had an unmistakably unique sound that you could hear coming a mile away with no mods and stock exhaust. Some might call it crude or unrefined, but it's music to my ears.
I worked at a dealer in the early 90's. another HUGE problem with that distributor was water would get in it and either kill the engine or keep it from starting. even a light rain would get the cap wet and the engine starts coughing, sometimes it would clear up but mostly it would get worse.
We ran hundreds of these engines in S10 fleet pickups. Inner city stop and go with multiple drivers. Very dependable. These trucks were abused daily. Only one engine failure and that was on a propane converted truck. Overheated and cracked the cylinder head. Replaced the head and converted back to gasoline no more issues.
This is actually a really good engine. I have one in an 85 S10 that's never had a major overhaul and that ol engine don't do nothing but run & run & run & I don't think you can even blow it up just by driving it because it's been thru absolute hell abused even and never so much as a breakdown other than the in tank fuel pump. You see what I believe the problem is, is that engineers didn't have ANYthing to do with that filter, or that cap, or any of that other crap. Because the Engineers designed and built that engine to be run LONGITUDINALLY, Not Transverse. Everything after that you can't blame the engineers, if I measured you up for a tailored shirt that fit you like it grew off you then after you got out the door walked down the road and got to your house you took it off and stretched it up over your ass, legs thru the arm holes, would you walk in the house and go "I don't know what the hell that idiot was thinking when he designed these Shorts, they dont fit worth a Fuck!"
We had 2 Chevy Celebrities from about 1995-2005--a 1985 with the itty-bitty V-6, and a 1987 with this Iron Duke. I preferred the Iron Duke, the fuel injection was smoother and it was somewhat easier to service. Those cars together gave us more than 200,000 miles of mostly trouble-free service between them. We maybe paid $1,500 for the pair used, and maybe spent that amount in tires and repairs over their extended service life. The most difficult repair was replacing the water pump, but it still wasn't too bad. This was emphasized after I'd had to replace a water pump on a 1994 Pontiac Quad-4. What a nightmare that job turned out to be!
Probably the most challenging repair I successfully attempted on an Iron Duke was replacing the clutch in a 1984 Pontiac Fiero. IIRC this required dropping the engine/transaxle from underneath the car. Then, after installing the clutch and re-installing the engine/transaxle, to finish the job properly you needed to replace and re-align the rear struts. A very labor-intensive repair, that was very expensive at the local dealership! Thanks for the memories.
Among the many reasons I love your content is that you bring attention to cars that are interesting yet overlooked elsewhere because they are not popularly regarded as cool or classic. I learned much about the Iron Duke -and enjoyed seeing this car (masterful packaging by GM in a medium-sized car…downright luxurious looking!) Thanks for the great content Adam!
You'll find that pretty much any fwd car has their repair challenges.
As I recall, my VW Scirocco was very easy to work on. Nothing was hidden and you could get to any of the bolts easily. This was good because the thing broke all the time.
@@soaringvulture
Haha after chasing an oil leak in the bell housing area in my 79 rabbit with a Tdi-m, I was able to have the trans on the floor in 35mins.
Of course ,doing it 5 times before made me fast.
It ended up being a oil galley plug
I had an iron duke in an ‘80 Pontiac Phoenix that I got good service out of. Ran it for about 4 years until I had trans problems. I ran the car hard everyday but kept clean oil in it and serviced it well all the time. It wasn’t fast by any stretch but it did what I needed it to do.
I bought my '80 new--actually ordered it in '79 and it took 6 months to make. I wanted a stick , and they weren't coming off the line very fast. Fuel economy was excellent, room was awesome, but it would not carry hills in 4th gear and that tranny was a dog. Could not keep synchros working. And it jumped out if gear often.
The 3.1 v6 on the z24 cavaliers had the pop out thermostat. Super easy replacement.
I had one of those! Pretty good car actually
Man I remember those seats. Relative had an ‘87 olds. Most comfortable car seats I’ve ever experienced.
I do like how Toyota later did their windshield cowling removal to access those areas. It takes time but it isn’t hard.
Nice to hear about the steering rack - I planned on changing the fluid in my A body. Good shape car overall. Steering feels great, light, and smooth, but the fluid is very dark. Reddish brown on a paper towel, but appears as burned chocolate milk in the reservoir.
My former wife, as her first car, bought a '78 Chevy Monza with the Iron Duke. Bulletproof, indestructible! Air conditioning DELETE! 35 mpg. We drove that car cross-country on leave one year between SoCali & MI.
So nice that you appreciate details and fineries that many would dismiss. One of my favorite channels.🎉
The "morning sickness" power steering pressure modification/band aid was a chore in the Iron Duke engine compartment.
Something for this list: the AC expansion valve on the W126 S Class. It's up in the dashboard, above the accelerator pedal. Ok, not so bad... except all the fittings are large flare nuts. The 2 on the top are super difficult to get to!
Ugh... . I had a 2.5 Iron Duke as a Tech 4 version in my '91 Pontiac Grand Am. With the electronic ignition, they put the crankshaft position sensor on the back of the coil mounting plate (which also housed the ignition control module) about where this distributor is located on your Olds. For some reason, the sensors didn't last but about 40K miles, and maybe less depending on the quality of the replacements. Getting to all that was a major grief. Finally, the ignition control module on my car failed at about 260k miles and I sold the car to save me the aggravation of pulling it apart again. The car certainly served me well but that weakness of the ignition system always lent a certain insecurity about depending on the car for extended driving.
I had it in a '90 Grand Am, Mother in '86 Buick. Not a powerhouse, but the Iron Duke was enough and a reliable soldier, direct descent of the Blue Flame Six. On my throttle body unit, injector for the 2.8 V6 made a significant difference in performance. Upgrade the 3.1 with a 3.8 injector for similar results. Problem was it was designed for RWD, making it difficult to service in FWD application. Not only was the distributor back there, so was the often neglected oil filter. With dextrous hands and patience, the extra work can be avoided.
Yes, best thermostat design ever! And the entire thermostat was actually held down snuggly by having the handle you pull to remove kept in place by the thermostat housing cap itself.
I remember lots of broken head bolts , the 3 by the exh manifold. Then they leaked coolant. Was difficult sometimes getting those dam bolts out. Good memories :)
Thank you Adam. The crankshaft sensor location on the 3800 V6. That is the one I hated that I did.
As I always said at work, a thing of beauty on an engine stand .
My parents had an Omega with the tech4 Iron Duke; engine’s voice was unmistakable. As always, Adam, your productions are top notch!
Back when I worked on those I just got use to those things
I had the 87 Buick Skylark with the 4tec version of that 2.5L engine. Changing the oil was a pain because it had the cartridge style filter inside the oil pan. However, there wasn't a separate oil drain plug to drain the oil first. You removed the large filter plug to drain the oil and get access to the filter. Could be very messy if you aren't careful. My car also had a power steering failure in that there was power assist when turning right but not left.
My car was the same color of maroon / burgundy as your car. Mine was a 5 speed manual and I would get about 44 MPG on the highway. It had the digital dash as well. I loved that car but someone else decided I didn't need the car anymore and side swiped me and totaled the vehicle.
We bought one new in 1986 and put 245000 miles on it b4 it rusted so badly that we had to take it off the road. Have to agree with you about the distributor cap and oil filter. It also ate front brakes at an astounding rate until we started to use carbon metallic pads on it and that cured the brake problem. We love your channel. How do you manage to find so many wonderful cars. Do you have an inside track on a Florida retirement community? haha.
Another exception besides the S10 was the Fiero you mentioned. Since the X-car engine cradle was just slid rearwards, the distributor (and alternator) was right in front of you while looking at the mid engine from behind the car. But that made reaching the plugs & O2 a PIA!
@ 9:38 one of the first series of the Delco ETR Radios. No set button, you would pull the button out to set the station. Those sounded pretty good also
I had two 2.5 Citations, an '84 and an "85. With no AC the distributor was very easy to get too. We had a '86 Ceutury with AC but it still wasn't ot hard to get to the Distributor. As for the Oil Filter, just turn the steering wheel all the way for a left turn. Sit on the floor and it is an easy reach to remove the Oil Filter. With thae small size I could twist it righ off with out a wrench. My Citations were 4 speed manual transmission and had plenty of power . I used them to pull a small boat all over the Pennsylvania mountains and never got in anyones way. I bought my '84 new and it had over 230,000 miles when I sold it to a guy that ran it over 300,000. I bought the '85 with only 169,000 and put over 40,000 on it.
Cool idea for a video!
Those oil filters are a real pain!
I once agreed to try and get Cimarron powered by one running... sitting in the middle of a business center's parking lot, on a freezing cold day. Trying to blindly reach around the block, only to change the plug wires, was a nightmare!
Thankfully, the wire & plug change was enough to get it running. I forget what I told the father of the owner--who was a friend of my father... hence why I agreed to do the job--what I felt should be done in follow-up, but I never saw that car again... and damn glad the only other 'Duke I ever worked on was in my first truck: A fleet trim S-10, handed-down from my cousin.
The Cimarron was never powered by the Iron Duke. It initially had a 1.8L pushrod Chevrolet four cylinder, then a 2.0L version of the same engine, and finally a 2.8L V6.
1970 Triumph TR6-clutch change started with removing the interior including the carpet to remove the transmission tunnel, then transmission. The frame rails were too close together for the transmission to slip by.
There is a tool you put in place of that dog bone motor mount that pulls the engine forward. "Thexton 419X GM Engine Moving Tool"
I drove one of these back in the day. It was a very comfortable car and that AC will blow frost out the vents when you turn it off. 80hp is a bit dated, but at the time it was enough.
1981 Citation V6 rear plugs!
That is where the unbolting the front motor mount trick made that a bit easier 😋
I bought a new '86 Oldsmobile Calais. It had the same 2.5 Tech 4 engine. It had all the same issues you point out here on the Omega. I wanted a Calais with the V6 but in hindsight it was better I had the 4. Under warranty the head bolts broke. In '91 I traded it in for a Quad 442(when was the last time you saw one?). It was involved in a rear end collision and I brought it in to the dealership body shop. The adjuster thought I "made up" the stripes and model call outs until he found it in his crash book. The quad 4 was more robust but it had issues too. Still I loved it and wish I had kept it.
Really appreciate your maintenance tips and warnings. Not always thought of when considering vintage car ownership.
Very nice Oldsmobile! I have celebrity’s myself I’d say the hardest thing I’ve done is replace the camshaft gear it’s made of nylon and eventually breaks it presses onto the camshaft not an easy repair. Great video thank you!
Yeah, that camshaft gear was a mutha to deal with. Had to be real careful going back in with it.
I agree on the other merits of the cars, Adam. Don't remember what year the Cutlass Ciera came out, but a friend had one and it WAS amazingly spacious, plush and quiet. A great car for road trips up and down California... except for that first 20 seconds it took to get up to 60 miles an hour... 😋
Ciera was produced from 1982-1996.
@@smf15 Thanks, that would fit. This would have been around 1985.
My Mom got my grandfather's 86 Celebrity,yes it was a pain to work on. Blew a head gasket due to a broken head bolt and replaced the distributor cap while the head was off.
That cap and rotor wasn't TOO bad. Reach down, under the master cylinder and behind the engine and feel your way around. The worst part was getting the cap over the pulgs on the ignition module. The cap and 2 grooves over the cut out in the cap. When you're feeling your way around it's hard to know if you've got it over the module right.
The alternator belt was a bit of a bear because it needed replaced a lot more often than the other belts. The power steering belt had to come off first and that was a little bit tricky to get at all the bolts on the pump.
Timing gears were noisy on the R engine, but the U engine in N body cars had a slightly shorter block and had different timing gears, They sounded awful even when new.
The vacuum pump...which was where the fuel pump was on the older carbureted versions, was a pain without having the car on a lift.
Exhaust manifold cracks were common.
GM initially used that orange RTV for the valve cover gasket. NAPA had a nice thick cork gasket that worked well. It had spaces in the bolt holes to prevent crushing the gasket. You had to remove the EGR on the TBI versions. I used a 1/2" distributor wrench that barely fit the 13mm bolt heads to get the EGR bolts out
I remember those cars well from my days in the mid 80s as a Buick and Olds tech. In the early 90's I bought an 81 Omega with the 2.5 and a feedback carb with a 4 speed (no AC) for 250 bux. I drove that car for 7 trouble free years
the racks were always fun to swap out
It was engineering like this that weaned me off of GM.
I had a 1984 Iron Duke Celebrity. Other difficult and/or annoying repairs were the water pump and the factory AC lines that didn't have barbs on the fittings, resulting in refrigerant leaks.
Ah, your 84 Omega reminds me of my 85 citation with the Iron Duke 4cyl. Mine got great mileage and had the plus of being a 5dr hatchback with station wagon versatility.
My Dad had the AMCConcord, 81 I believe, with th iron duke motor, but it was rear wheel drive so the engine sat the other way. Now, if you research the bore and stroke, you will see it is identical to the infamous 302 DZ Engine from 69 camaro, so this gives you an idea of it Spirit, it likes to rev.. Also I ended up working in the FLint V8 engine plant and these 4 cylinders were produced in the same plant with the 4 cylinder lines intermingled with the V8 lines, at least it showed on the drawings, but this was 94 so the 4 cylinder lines had been removed by then. I interviewed at the V6 engine plant which was taking off then.
Yep. Remember them well. Tech 88 thru 02. Timing gears were a suck job too.
Best they did was DI, oil filter moved to the pan, serpentine belt accessories drive.
My friend had a Chevy Celebrity that he bought from a senior citizen, who had never changed the oil. I think it had about 70k miles on it. Took us an entire day. Similar color, too. Sounds smooth as sandpaper. Nightmares.
Your Omega has some interesting features! Wish my 84 S10 pickup had the straight up hood feature. Yours even has the original amber colored radio display which is kind of rare here in Oregon due to all the wet seasons humidity ruining most of them including my S10`s radio which I had to upgrade to the newer green colored display. That iron duke engine is much quieter than most of those we had at our dealership brand new when I worked as a asst. parts mgr. It still is nosier than our 70 year old Ford 8N tractors though at an idle! I`m glad that I have the 2.8L 'B' engine in our S10 pickup though. For those of you who might be wondering why so many early 2.8`s had crankshaft failures we discovered upon opening up the engine at 122,000 miles our self for the 1st time, the factory did not always have the main bearings in torque specs.or perhaps due to wear the #`s were 1/2 of the values they were supposed to be on the middle main bearings. The middle mains were only 35# instead of the 75# factory manuals said all mains are supposed to be torqued at. The outside mains were right on the correct values.
I had one of these in a S10. It had valve train issues. There was not enough room in the push rod gallery so if you replaced a valve push rod the side of it rubbed against the block until enough metal was worn off. This had to be good for the cam lobes!
The later versions of that engine was bulletproof and easy to work on, the 1st gen was terrible, my dad had one. This video sums it up...
Title: bad engineering
Video: awesome engineering !
❤
the safety recall for the power steering rack mounting studs that paid jack shit was fun fun fun.
Nice car Adam !... kinda off the subject but... I still work on these engines in all kinds of boats. The mercruiser 3.0 140 hp is in a lot of em. Went from 151 cu in to 181 cu in. Some OMC and Volvo use same engine. Still see lots with carbs and distributors ! Easy to work on in a boat.... we got a couple in the yard with that r-4 compressor too !
The Pontiac Sunbird 1.8 / 2.0 thermostat was just as simple to replace.