I just picked up a Club HCT and I have a wolf tone on the A flat on the E string 4th fret. I remembered watching this video and now referenced it. THANK YOU AGAIN!
One of the most interesting videos I watched lately. Thank you so much. As time passes by, I find more interests in common. I'm considering now venturing into the world of semi-hollow basses, and I'm glad to find so much quality content here as usual.
nice demonstration, I can't believe how much that changed when you pulled the washer out. I use those exact strings on my Beatle bass copy I built from a kit, and have not had any issues.
Thanks so much for watching! Wolf tones are a strange thing.....and seems to vary greatly even between instruments of the same design and construction! On my cello, temperature and humidity changes can affect how pronounced the wolf is! I think the wolf is more a product of the instrument itself and less so the string, but sometimes, changing the gauge and brand of strings can radically alter whether the wolf is present or not. It's science that's way beyond my skill set!
@@jonathanwong458music now I want to play around with my cello to see if that happens. Mine pretty much just lives in my music room and doesn't get played much... As a part time luthier, laminating a couple strips of wood, even from the same board, can mostly eliminate dead spots. Most guitars and basses I've built have a 3 piece neck, with grain running in opposite directions on each side. This also helps with stability.... I almost hate to say it out loud, but I've never had a neck warp or twist.
Yeah! I’m surprised that in the past 100 years, no one credible has tried to improve the design of the cellos. Still using strad forma B measurements. Maybe it can’t be improved upon? But maybe small strategic laminates will work? I have no idea, but wouldn’t it be great if we unlocked it?
cool！I used to think this strange sound is just a character of labella string sound because so many bassist I met who play hofner bass guitar that always say the sound of labella E string has less sustain and also for mine... never thought it is because of the wolf sound, This video gives me a new sight of how to deal with that problem, thank you so much❤
Thanks so much for watching and for commenting! I still use the same cymbal felt I stuck in there and it's still working! It's an audible improvement and difference. I hope something similar will work for you!
I had this exact issue on my solid bodied Fender Aerodyne Jazz bass. It drove me crazy and I ended up losing confidence in the instrument. This led me to switch to an Ibanez Artcore hollow bodied bass (which has been fantastic and has given me many years of service). Ultimately I put heavier gauge strings on the Fender and tuned down a semitone. This eliminated the beating tones. Thanks to your video I have learnt about Wolf Notes. Wow. Thanks so much - I hope to get my Fender Jazz back to concert pitch and out live again.
Did it work?! Awesome! I’ve since moved the cymbal felt under the tail piece too! It got in the way of palm muting, where I initially had it. Thanks for watching!
It worked on mine and I’ve heard from a few viewers that it worked on their Hofs too. And they’re inexpensive. Can also experiment with placement. I now have mine gently under the tailpiece. I was touching the original placement while palm muting. Best of luck!
I'm a beginning bass player and am trying to learn all that I can about it. I have a Fender mod shop PJ bass, and I like its strong sound. Just bought a Hofner Ignition violin bass and it's at my luthier's getting set up properly. My Beatles Bass strings, the ones you showed, have arrived. Think I'll order a cymbal felt now! I haven't played the Hofner yet, but from what you've shown me, I am likely to have wolf tones and will need the felt to correct it. I sure did notice the difference when you demonstrated the before and after. And I had never heard of this phenomenon before watching this video. Thank you!!!
Thanks for watching! Not all Hofners have dead spots, but many do unfortunately. Something in the design and dimensions makes it vulnerable. Mine was ok with other strings, but intolerable with the Labellas. It’s a weird phenomenon! Hope you enjoy the new Hofner!!
@@jonathanwong458music Thanks! I had to subscribe. I played cello for a year back in the 70s. It's cool to know you play cello. My main instrument was saxophone, alto and bari, which I played for years until my house was burglarized and they were stolen. Decided to take up bass guitar because it's my favorite part in rock songs, even a high priced bass is cheaper than a decent sax, and I need to practice in relative silence due to thin walls. The Vox Amplug is one amazing and extremely useful piece of equipment! It's my favorite accessory.
Thanks a lot! I just got my hands on a Hofner CT Verythin and it's a gorgeous bass, but it has the classic Hofner-dead spot, which to me is super annoying. Been thinking about returning it, but first I have to try this hack. Really didn't expect there to be such a simple fix.
I hope it works for you! It’s an audible improvement on my club bass. I’ve since moved the cymbal felt under the tail piece as it was getting in the way of picking and palm muting. Still works!
Crimping a string before you cut off the excess. One of those things that should be common knowledge but for some reason it’s like an esoteric secret. If we ever met, we would be friends.
Inneresting stuff here 👍 I've notice dead spots too and intonation is almost a fool's errand - get it close tho and dial in your goto riffs and these Hofner boogers tune in great for the mix.
More new knowledge! I have the Club and other hollows. Now, I've got to find a better way of saving and filing these vids for future reference. The cymbal felt is easy to source, and I have the fat finger device I bought for guitar, but please save lazy me some effort and tell me what and where to get the muting felt. You are my short-scale guru. Thanks, as always.
Hi! Thanks for watching! Re: the muting felt I put under the strings. Nothing fancy! I cut them from various packing foam that come with packages. I cut the one in the video to be the same size as the bridge pickup shell so it looks a little classier. The trick (if you can call it that) is finding a piece that's not too thick but still fits snugly under the strings. If it's too thick, it pushes up the strings too much and alters the intonation and also makes it too dead. Please let me know if the cymbal felt trick works on your instruments.
Are you sure it wasn't just the LaBella strings made the neck bow a little bit? The difference in tension between the two strings is pretty big. So, the most logical thing is that the neck got slightly bowed and loosening or tightening the truss rod should have done the trick.
Thanks for sharing your hypothesis! I wish it were as simple as a setup issue. I am pretty particular when it comes to setups and intonation. After installing the Labellas, the first thing I did was a complete setup overhaul. Neck relief, string height, bridge height, position and intonation (as much as a Hofner floating bridge will allow you to intonate) and pickup heights were optimized for these strings. And you're right - there is a massive tension difference! Unfortunately, despite a good setup, the new dead spots did not disappear. I have since heard from a few different Hofner players who tried the cymbal felt hack (or something similar) with positive results. Having said that, every instrument is different and I can see scenarios where poor setups would result in wonky spots and poor tone. Thanks for watching and commenting!
That’s a great question! My guess is that with TIs, the wolf tones would go away again. But, I’m not actually confident I could get the TI low E actually back on…. The club came stock with Hofner branded roundwounds , but for me, didn’t really capture the Hofner vibe, so I didn’t spend very much time with them. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
In general, the tonality of the low E string is a bit different on most short scales. A little less defined, and depending on the bass, a little more phasey and chorusy. Some are worse than others. My Hofner was on the better end. I’ve had both Thomastiks and Labella flats on. No dead spots with the TIs, but an intolerable one on the low E with the Labellas, unfortunately. Thanks for watching!
The more typical fender dead spots tend to be on the G string. Your frets are seated properly and the neck is bolted tightly? I’m afraid I’m not sure without looking at it. Have you tried a fat finger?
I think you could probably just use one of those cheap Amazon/Aliexpress string mute clamps that electric guitarists use to stop the bits of string between the nut and tuners (or also between tailpiece and bridge if you have a Les Paul type bridge) from ringing out when recording under high gain. In other words, I don't think you're solving your problem here by changing mass and peak resonance frequency, you're just muting the strings between the tailpiece and bridge. It was probably accidentally "tuned" close enough to some G#/A several octaves higher to get induced and resonate, but apart enough to warble and "fight against itself" losing energy. Putting your pinky finger or side of your palm behind the bridge and plucking with the thumb would probably do the same thing by just stopping that bit of string from vibrating.
I love TI flats on my other instruments but it was pain to get them onto the Hofner. The tuner hole is too small for the low E string, so it was always precarious at best. But it sounded good. I have videos with the Club strung up with the TIs. They were also a bit soft and loosey goosey on the club. But the primary reason for the string change was how confident (or not) I was with the E string staying on the tuner.
Good video, legit technique, but for some context it is important to know that compared to a modern company like D'Addario or TI, Labella DOES have a lot of quality control issues, and dead spots/dead strings are not uncommon. Also, proper brass wolf tamers are available for bass. Damping the resonance of the top is not an ideal solution, and if you A/B the non-wolf notes he plays before and after, you can hear why.
Nice video. Good detective work and worth trying on other basses. My experience with Labella flats has not been good. In fact I think they are the worst flats I've tried. Poor tone, very stiff and uneven. Yes I know James Jamerson used LaBella - but he would sound like a genius on a washtub bass. Your positive experience with the Thomastik flats makes the point about string quality.
Thanks for watching and commenting! 100% I prefer TIs on most of my basses. If I wasn’t quite so fretful that the low E would pop out of the tiny-holed tuner on my Hofner, the TIs would have stayed on!!
@@jonathanwong458music yep, I custom tune strings on a lot of different 6 strings...especially lap steel open tunings fwiw it has been said that no stringed instrument can be perfectly 'in tune ' (mathematically) or something. On bass - it's a huge jump from one string to another. And wayyy too expensive to be comparing strings. Great Video, Jonathon 💕
Nice! I fixed mine by putting a bit of felt between the bridge and TP across all strings, same thing I'd use in front of the bridge to mute the notes. This is for Jonathan btw, not to piggyback on his video. th-cam.com/video/wg3kcvIIBac/w-d-xo.html
I'm sorry, there was a lot of background info to get through. Playing examples of the dead spot/wolf tone are found at 03:02, 05:53 and after application of the cymbal felt, at 12:06. There are time stamps for these. Did you have a specific question or concern?
I just trying to find the sound that you are presenting... I dont like wearing earplug.. Because the volume may vary.. Varying between low sound and then sudennly high note coming and hit my ear.. May be you can isolated the sound you are talking... Record it and play it in the higher volume... So me and may be other person interested catch the sound easier... Thanks
Exactly what you would expect from a flimsy badly designed instrument. My fifty years as a manufacturing Luthier and repair technician has engendered a justified loathing of Hofner design deficiencies.
I have been chasin' a wolf tone and didn't even know it. Thanks. Could use more of your playing.
This is just how I approached it. It's cheap and removable! I hope it solves your wolf tone! Thanks for watching!
This video is really good, thanks
Really appreciate that! Thanks for watching!
I just picked up a Club HCT and I have a wolf tone on the A flat on the E string 4th fret. I remembered watching this video and now referenced it. THANK YOU AGAIN!
Right on! I think it’s something in the nature of the design and construction. Thanks for watching!
@@jonathanwong458music STAY WARM, SAFE, AND HEALTHY SIR!
Happy new year!
@@jonathanwong458music Happy New Year 🎊
One of the most interesting videos I watched lately. Thank you so much. As time passes by, I find more interests in common. I'm considering now venturing into the world of semi-hollow basses, and I'm glad to find so much quality content here as usual.
Thanks so much for your viewership! I have more semi hollow content in the works. Stay tuned!
nice demonstration, I can't believe how much that changed when you pulled the washer out. I use those exact strings on my Beatle bass copy I built from a kit, and have not had any issues.
Thanks so much for watching! Wolf tones are a strange thing.....and seems to vary greatly even between instruments of the same design and construction! On my cello, temperature and humidity changes can affect how pronounced the wolf is! I think the wolf is more a product of the instrument itself and less so the string, but sometimes, changing the gauge and brand of strings can radically alter whether the wolf is present or not. It's science that's way beyond my skill set!
@@jonathanwong458music now I want to play around with my cello to see if that happens. Mine pretty much just lives in my music room and doesn't get played much...
As a part time luthier, laminating a couple strips of wood, even from the same board, can mostly eliminate dead spots. Most guitars and basses I've built have a 3 piece neck, with grain running in opposite directions on each side. This also helps with stability.... I almost hate to say it out loud, but I've never had a neck warp or twist.
Yeah! I’m surprised that in the past 100 years, no one credible has tried to improve the design of the cellos. Still using strad forma B measurements. Maybe it can’t be improved upon? But maybe small strategic laminates will work? I have no idea, but wouldn’t it be great if we unlocked it?
This is great info, my vintage, unbinded Hofner Verithin has similar dead spots and I never thought to look to these types of body resonances 👍
Hofner bass is a super dookie sound especially through a vintage fender amp at louder volume and under the influence of lots of tequila 🤡
Thanks for watching and commenting! Hope you find a solution for your Hofner!
hahahaha...tequila does have an EQ'ing effect doesn't it:)
@@jonathanwong458music hahaha that’s my twin brother, Will, who has a matching Verithin guitar, recounting many an 80’s gig we played…🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@jdanielcramer that's AWESOME!
cool！I used to think this strange sound is just a character of labella string sound because so many bassist I met who play hofner bass guitar that always say the sound of labella E string has less sustain and also for mine... never thought it is because of the wolf sound, This video gives me a new sight of how to deal with that problem, thank you so much❤
Wonderful demo at the end of the video by the way
Thanks so much for watching and for commenting! I still use the same cymbal felt I stuck in there and it's still working! It's an audible improvement and difference. I hope something similar will work for you!
I had this exact issue on my solid bodied Fender Aerodyne Jazz bass. It drove me crazy and I ended up losing confidence in the instrument. This led me to switch to an Ibanez Artcore hollow bodied bass (which has been fantastic and has given me many years of service). Ultimately I put heavier gauge strings on the Fender and tuned down a semitone. This eliminated the beating tones.
Thanks to your video I have learnt about Wolf Notes. Wow. Thanks so much - I hope to get my Fender Jazz back to concert pitch and out live again.
Thanks for watching! I hope you can get your Fender back up and running to your liking!
Thank you very much! 👍 Just sticking a "slice" of bassdrum beater felt under the tailpiece worked for me.
Did it work?! Awesome! I’ve since moved the cymbal felt under the tail piece too! It got in the way of palm muting, where I initially had it. Thanks for watching!
Cymbal felt is clever, I'll try by end of this week 👍
It worked on mine and I’ve heard from a few viewers that it worked on their Hofs too. And they’re inexpensive. Can also experiment with placement. I now have mine gently under the tailpiece. I was touching the original placement while palm muting.
Best of luck!
I'm a beginning bass player and am trying to learn all that I can about it. I have a Fender mod shop PJ bass, and I like its strong sound. Just bought a Hofner Ignition violin bass and it's at my luthier's getting set up properly. My Beatles Bass strings, the ones you showed, have arrived. Think I'll order a cymbal felt now! I haven't played the Hofner yet, but from what you've shown me, I am likely to have wolf tones and will need the felt to correct it. I sure did notice the difference when you demonstrated the before and after. And I had never heard of this phenomenon before watching this video.
Thank you!!!
Thanks for watching! Not all Hofners have dead spots, but many do unfortunately. Something in the design and dimensions makes it vulnerable. Mine was ok with other strings, but intolerable with the Labellas. It’s a weird phenomenon!
Hope you enjoy the new Hofner!!
@@jonathanwong458music I figured since I bought the exact same strings there would be a strong likelihood that mine would experience the same thing.
Good thinking! I used the thicker felt size and sliced it in half. The thinner size is too thin to fit. Good luck
@@jonathanwong458music Thanks! I had to subscribe. I played cello for a year back in the 70s. It's cool to know you play cello. My main instrument was saxophone, alto and bari, which I played for years until my house was burglarized and they were stolen. Decided to take up bass guitar because it's my favorite part in rock songs, even a high priced bass is cheaper than a decent sax, and I need to practice in relative silence due to thin walls. The Vox Amplug is one amazing and extremely useful piece of equipment! It's my favorite accessory.
Thanks so much for your support!
Should you be interested in some of my instrumental work including cello, here’s my page:
jonathanwong.bandcamp.com
That was very interesting.
Thanks very much.
Thanks so much for watching!
@@jonathanwong458music My pleasure.
Thanks a lot! I just got my hands on a Hofner CT Verythin and it's a gorgeous bass, but it has the classic Hofner-dead spot, which to me is super annoying. Been thinking about returning it, but first I have to try this hack. Really didn't expect there to be such a simple fix.
I hope it works for you! It’s an audible improvement on my club bass. I’ve since moved the cymbal felt under the tail piece as it was getting in the way of picking and palm muting. Still works!
Crimping a string before you cut off the excess. One of those things that should be common knowledge but for some reason it’s like an esoteric secret.
If we ever met, we would be friends.
Right on! Appreciate the virtual friendship. Thanks for watching!
What a gent. tip up front. Good man
Hope it ended up being helpful. Thanks for watching!
Great Info!
Thanks! I genuinely hope this will help other Hofner players!
Inneresting stuff here 👍 I've notice dead spots too and intonation is almost a fool's errand - get it close tho and dial in your goto riffs and these Hofner boogers tune in great for the mix.
Right on! Thanks for watching! Hofners certainly have their ‘thing’!
More new knowledge! I have the Club and other hollows. Now, I've got to find a better way of saving and filing these vids for future reference. The cymbal felt is easy to source, and I have the fat finger device I bought for guitar, but please save lazy me some effort and tell me what and where to get the muting felt. You are my short-scale guru. Thanks, as always.
Hi! Thanks for watching! Re: the muting felt I put under the strings. Nothing fancy! I cut them from various packing foam that come with packages. I cut the one in the video to be the same size as the bridge pickup shell so it looks a little classier. The trick (if you can call it that) is finding a piece that's not too thick but still fits snugly under the strings. If it's too thick, it pushes up the strings too much and alters the intonation and also makes it too dead.
Please let me know if the cymbal felt trick works on your instruments.
@jonathanwong458music It's not a problem right now, but as a LaBella fan, I can see it in the future
It is really weird how different strings can make a difference (all else being constant)! Good luck!
Thank you sir!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I use a triangle made out of auralex sound panels on my Ibanez SRH500. Sounds like Motown and no resonant frequencies
Cool! Thanks for watching!
Are you sure it wasn't just the LaBella strings made the neck bow a little bit? The difference in tension between the two strings is pretty big. So, the most logical thing is that the neck got slightly bowed and loosening or tightening the truss rod should have done the trick.
Thanks for sharing your hypothesis! I wish it were as simple as a setup issue. I am pretty particular when it comes to setups and intonation. After installing the Labellas, the first thing I did was a complete setup overhaul. Neck relief, string height, bridge height, position and intonation (as much as a Hofner floating bridge will allow you to intonate) and pickup heights were optimized for these strings. And you're right - there is a massive tension difference! Unfortunately, despite a good setup, the new dead spots did not disappear.
I have since heard from a few different Hofner players who tried the cymbal felt hack (or something similar) with positive results. Having said that, every instrument is different and I can see scenarios where poor setups would result in wonky spots and poor tone.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Such an informative and clever video. Do you think the wolf notes would disappear if you switched back to your old strings or even some roundwounds?
That’s a great question! My guess is that with TIs, the wolf tones would go away again. But, I’m not actually confident I could get the TI low E actually back on…. The club came stock with Hofner branded roundwounds , but for me, didn’t really capture the Hofner vibe, so I didn’t spend very much time with them.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Very interesting. 👍❤️
Thanks for watching. I hope it works for other people!
Usually the open low E string sounds weaker on Höfner basses. I'm surprised that you didn't (also) have this problem ... or did you?
In general, the tonality of the low E string is a bit different on most short scales. A little less defined, and depending on the bass, a little more phasey and chorusy. Some are worse than others. My Hofner was on the better end. I’ve had both Thomastiks and Labella flats on. No dead spots with the TIs, but an intolerable one on the low E with the Labellas, unfortunately.
Thanks for watching!
I have that issue on 34 scale fender bass...the tone is warbling on 5th fret E string...did you know how to fix that issue on standard scale bass...
The more typical fender dead spots tend to be on the G string. Your frets are seated properly and the neck is bolted tightly? I’m afraid I’m not sure without looking at it. Have you tried a fat finger?
@@jonathanwong458music I never use fat finger... I will take my bass to the nearest technician to check the neck joint...thank you for helping...
Best of luck to you! Thanks for watching!
I think you could probably just use one of those cheap Amazon/Aliexpress string mute clamps that electric guitarists use to stop the bits of string between the nut and tuners (or also between tailpiece and bridge if you have a Les Paul type bridge) from ringing out when recording under high gain. In other words, I don't think you're solving your problem here by changing mass and peak resonance frequency, you're just muting the strings between the tailpiece and bridge. It was probably accidentally "tuned" close enough to some G#/A several octaves higher to get induced and resonate, but apart enough to warble and "fight against itself" losing energy. Putting your pinky finger or side of your palm behind the bridge and plucking with the thumb would probably do the same thing by just stopping that bit of string from vibrating.
Thanks for the insight!
What didn't you like about the TI flats
I love TI flats on my other instruments but it was pain to get them onto the Hofner. The tuner hole is too small for the low E string, so it was always precarious at best. But it sounded good. I have videos with the Club strung up with the TIs. They were also a bit soft and loosey goosey on the club. But the primary reason for the string change was how confident (or not) I was with the E string staying on the tuner.
@@jonathanwong458music that's completely understandable
Good video, legit technique, but for some context it is important to know that compared to a modern company like D'Addario or TI, Labella DOES have a lot of quality control issues, and dead spots/dead strings are not uncommon.
Also, proper brass wolf tamers are available for bass. Damping the resonance of the top is not an ideal solution, and if you A/B the non-wolf notes he plays before and after, you can hear why.
Thanks for the feedback and for watching!
Nice video. Good detective work and worth trying on other basses. My experience with Labella flats has not been good. In fact I think they are the worst flats I've tried. Poor tone, very stiff and uneven. Yes I know James Jamerson used LaBella - but he would sound like a genius on a washtub bass. Your positive experience with the Thomastik flats makes the point about string quality.
Thanks for watching and commenting! 100% I prefer TIs on most of my basses. If I wasn’t quite so fretful that the low E would pop out of the tiny-holed tuner on my Hofner, the TIs would have stayed on!!
D string E turned to 8 cents sharp is a perfect match for the dead on E string. I call it roundabout intonation 🤣
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
@@jonathanwong458music yep, I custom tune strings on a lot of different 6 strings...especially lap steel open tunings
fwiw it has been said that no stringed instrument can be perfectly 'in tune ' (mathematically) or something. On bass - it's a huge jump from one string to another. And wayyy too expensive to be comparing strings. Great Video, Jonathon 💕
Thanks for watching!
Nice! I fixed mine by putting a bit of felt between the bridge and TP across all strings, same thing I'd use in front of the bridge to mute the notes. This is for Jonathan btw, not to piggyback on his video. th-cam.com/video/wg3kcvIIBac/w-d-xo.html
Cool, man! Thanks for watching!
Get it PLEKED everything will improve after that
Plek is such a great invention. Had a lakland that was plek’d! Played great
Pyramids
Good suggestion for strings! I’ve heard mixed reactions on whether dead spots remain or go away. You’ve had a good experience?
All i hear is you talking
I'm sorry, there was a lot of background info to get through. Playing examples of the dead spot/wolf tone are found at 03:02, 05:53 and after application of the cymbal felt, at 12:06. There are time stamps for these.
Did you have a specific question or concern?
I just trying to find the sound that you are presenting... I dont like wearing earplug.. Because the volume may vary.. Varying between low sound and then sudennly high note coming and hit my ear.. May be you can isolated the sound you are talking... Record it and play it in the higher volume... So me and may be other person interested catch the sound easier... Thanks
Fair. Thanks for clarifying.
Exactly what you would expect from a flimsy badly designed instrument.
My fifty years as a manufacturing Luthier and repair technician has engendered a justified loathing of Hofner design deficiencies.
Great to hear from a luthier! What do you build and craft? Any suggestions (aside from ditching the Hofner design)?
Hi
Are you referring to Hofner in general, or just entry level guitars from China?