Why Was Saruman So Powerful? Middle-earth Explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2023
- Saruman was the most powerful wizard until the return of Gandalf as Gandalf the White, yet what were his powers? Why was he so powerful, and how? Today, we will look into the demonstrations of Saruman’s power in Middle-earth and explore the answers to these questions! Thank you all so much for watching, I hope you all enjoyed this! Let me know your thoughts on all of this in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
#LordoftheRings
#Saruman
#Lore
Castle Kon Replicas:
castlekon.com/
Mythologie Candles:
mythologiecandles.com/?ref=kB...
Consider donating to our Patreon for the Westernesse Podcast and Discord Server:
/ menofthewest
Check out our Merch:
www.spreadshirt.com/shop/user...
Check out our music channel:
/ @musicmotw
Join us on Facebook at:
/ yoystan
Join us on Twitter at:
/ yoystan
Related articles:
www.quora.com/What-are-Saruma...
tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Saruman
lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Saruman
What Was Saruman's Plan in the Lord of the Rings? Middle-earth Explained:
• What Was Saruman's Pla...
Saruman the White & Of Many Colours - Epic Character History:
• Saruman the White & Of...
Thank you for your (Valar and Elf tiers) patronage and support!
Zoomi
Andrew Carlisle
Moon Viper
Theodore
Robert Bogue
Kings Wild Project
Bryan Garwood
Anthony Harmon
Arthur
Blair Scouten
Merlin
Elizabeth Calvert
John Hume
Maz Gibs
merten
Peter Sheppard
Rhys Jenkins
Sam mcbee
April Green
Brent Paredes
Chiara Siaset
Corwin Nemeth
Dale Starbuck
Helko
Jpcjr
Matthew Jacoby
Matthew Rivas
Memory Troll
Peter DeVault
Psynexus
Susan Henry
Tobias Göldner
Van Hardison, PhD
metalguy87
Saoirse Rose
NicthevikTv
Marc
Paul Leone
theo
Jake Pedsneuro
Inge Marie Schmidlin
theo
Mason Mathias
Estellise
Ashley Dilley
Tyler Lund
Bryan Sowder
(These are active patrons, if you don’t see your name, there may be an issue with your donation)
The new Men of the West thumbnail logo overlay was created by Raffe:
@RaffetheRandom on Twitter
The new Men of the West logo was created by Beau:
beauy.art?...
The new Men of the West intro was created by Tyler Lund:
tylerlund.mystrikingly.com/
The image “Bag End” was created by Wayne Glassbrook at designly.net
The first song used in this video:
Lost Time by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.filmmusic.io/song...
License: filmmusic.io/standard-license
The last song used in this video is from:
library.techsmith.com/
Many related and/or used art come from these artists and sources:
Ralph Damiani:
www.deviantart.com/ralphdamiani
www.artstation.com/ralphdamiani
Ted Nasmith:
www.tednasmith.com/
Jenny Dolfen:
goldseven.wordpress.com/
Alan Lee:
www.iamag.co/the-art-of-alan-...
John Howe:
www.john-howe.com/portfolio/g...
Hildebrant Brothers:
www.brothershildebrandt.com/Br...
Magali Villeneuve
www.magali-villeneuve.com/
EKukanova:
www.deviantart.com/ekukanova/...
steamey:
www.deviantart.com/steamey
SaMo-art:
www.deviantart.com/samo-art/g...
Anke Eissmann:
anke.edoras-art.de/anke_illust...
Kip Rasmussen:
www.kiprasmussen.com/
alystraea:
www.deviantart.com/alystraea
peet:
www.deviantart.com/peet
Thaldir:
www.deviantart.com/thaldir/ar...
LasloLF:
www.deviantart.com/laslolf/ar...
Angus McBride
Inger Edelfeldt
Flavio Hoffe
Tristan Wang
Karl Lundgren - บันเทิง
By the time of Gandalf the White's confrontation with Saruman, the former White Wizard had expended a great deal of his power in the creation of half-orcs (or Uruk-hai in the movie), and in the creation of his Ring of Power, such as it was. These unauthorized uses of his native power diminished his spirit and all that was left to him was his Voice. I would argue that Saruman had great combat abilities via his 'devices', whatever those might have been. Gandalf credits Saruman's devices for their swift overthrow of Dol Guldor when the White Council set themselves against the Necromancer. The principle between the lines of Tolkien's Magic/Sub-Creation system is that if one is using their native power in Authorized ways, it can be replenished with rest. If one is externalizing their power in order to control, conquer, or dominate other minds than that expenditure permanently diminishes the practitioner more profoundly and takes loner to recover if that is even possible.
I do believe he invested his power into his ring which is what he used to raise and command the Uruk-hai. I think this is also part of why Gandalf defeated him so easily, although I think he still would’ve defeated him in his prime as Gandalf was sent back with authority over him.
@@myjourney3229i would have thought that wouldnt matter if he was still wearing it though? Like when sauron has his ring hes strong but if he loses it hes lost that part of his power.
Im not an expert at all, just wondering if theres an explanation for that
@@kurosakiichigo7475 What I mean is that he invested all his power into the control aspect of his character. He wasn't the ring maker that sauron was. I think he gave up some abilities to be able to command such a force, but that's just my head cannon. We also see how much power morgoth lost as he spent his essence into the world. Saruman also wasn't counting on gandalf being exalted either. He likely thought he spent his power on his ability to control that it was all he would need.
It is never stated that he lost power after making his ring and would be a little silly if Gandalf broke his staff while most of Saruman's powers was in his ring. Perhaps the ring allowed him to change the color of his robes to shimmer, but nothing anywhere near that of the One ring or even the Three; this has been stated in the book.
@@lordcaedus8465 I know it isnt stated he lost power. Its just my head cannon. I do think Gandalf being sent back by Eru would allow him to break his staff, because he had the authority to do so.
If I may, I’d love to suggest a possible what-if scenario: What if Feanor agreed to give up the Silmarils?
Perhaps Tulkas doesn’t get impatient and snap at Feanor, triggering his stubbornness. Perhaps Feanor realizes there’s glory to be had in single-handedly saving the Two Trees. Perhaps even Feanor’s realizes he can break just one of them, and retain the other two. Whatever the case, when asked by the Valar, Feanor concedes.
Melkor still kills Finwe and steals them, of course, escaping with Ungoliant into Middle Earth. And Feanor is surely still beyond distraught at his father’s death. But perhaps no oath is sworn by Feanor and his seven sons to obtain the Silmarils at any cost (even if it means killing other elves to get them). Perhaps the Noldor do not go into Middle Earth under a ban on returning to Valinor, but instead with the blessing of the Valar. (It would probably be more interesting if the Valar don’t immediately commit to attacking Morgoth full force, for one reason or another.) I think it could be fascinating to explore the implications of this on the First Age (if there even is a “First Age” heralded by the creation of the sun and moon at all). And could surely be ended with some lesson on how one’s pride can lead to unimaginable suffering, as I’d wager the world would see far less bloodshed in this scenario.
(I know this is completely unrelated to the video topic, but I’ve always loved how you construct your what-ifs, the care to details and characters you have, and I’ve had this idea stewing for awhile! Thank you!!)
I just watched few hours ago your video called 'what was saruman's plan in the lord of the rings?' and now you came with yet another saruman video, Cool man!
I don’t think the movies do a good job showing that he wanted the ring for himself land was not just a follower of Sauron. Probably a conscious decision though to portray him differently.
"It would be wise, my friend."
Knowledgeable, cunning, ambitious. Power can manifest thru many different ways and his was more intangible. Can't help but see some parallels between him and a certain world leader that used his voice and charisma to not only gain power but use it to terrible effects.
If u can sway the hearts and minds of those stronger or more powerful then who is actually more in control?
“Tell me… “friend”, when did Saruman the Wise abandon reason for MADNESS!!??”
I do believe that in some way, his power was reduced after his staff was broken. In response to Gandalf and the balrog, I think that he was then allotted in that moment a greater portion than he himself could muster maybe, and the way he tried to kill Frodo was due to sheer anger. I think it's safe to say that Saruman the white was more powerful than Gandalf the grey especially since he FORCEFULLY imprisoned Gandalf at Orthanc for some time and it wasn't just Gandalf wanting to stay and learn Saruman's plans.
I recently started reading the Silmarillion and its great. In the beginning of the Ainulindalë, and pardon me if my terminology is not correct, but aren't each of the Valar associated with a particular 'theme' and thus associated with specific characteristics or domains such as Yavanna with nature or Ulmo with waters. I would then assume that they would not be proficient much in other fields comparatively. Ulmo not being skilled with the air of Manwe or Yavanna with the fire of Aule.
Perhaps Saruman is similar even if as a Maiar, with him being associated with more intelligence, forging and persuasion. As far as I'm aware Saruman was a student of Aule for example and thus closely linked.
I am for the most part fairly new to the specifics though i like to think i understand the generality of Tolkien's lore. Correct me if I'm wrong since i like learning more about this world.
That's a very keen and, I assume, correct insight. Keep it on!
Orc: what news from TH-cam my Lord? What does Yoystan command?”
Sauruman: “we have work to do..”
The voice of Sir Christopher Lee needed no magic to overawe or dominate.
Truly. If any actor other than Christopher Lee had played Saruman in the movies, the movies would only be about half as popular as they are in our timeline. As villains go, Lee was OTHERWORLDLY!
"It was by the devices of Saruman that the Wise were able to drive the Enemy from Dol Guldur". Even though this move was long foreseen by Sauron, it speaks to the power of Saruman. Also, 'To Aule were given gifts scarce less than were given to Melkor". To be a Maia of Aule was to learn that power. Curumo was the real deal. The mightiest servant of Aule next to Sauron Himself. But like Melkor, he wasted it on the desire to dominate.
Next to Melkor himself, Aule was the biggest failure among the Valar. Aule's two most powerful diciples both turned to the path of evil.
@@manfrommaine I'd suggest that title would go to Manwe, for releasing a secretly unrepentant Melkor from captivity back into the world. The death of the two trees, the flight of the Noldor, and the ruin of Beleriand can all be tied to that one decision. Sauron and Saruman are minor annoyances by comparison.
*scoffs in dwarvish*
@@manfrommaine
Always wondered this myself Yoystan excellent video keep up the good work
Really enjoyed this take on Saruman!
Saruman was diminished by the time he tried to killed Frodo though. He did send a fireball to Gandalf when speaking Gandalf and Theoden. Believed he was more of a combative threat before he fell into darkness and his staff was broken.
I also was about to type about his broken staff and the fact that he got cast down and demoted by Gandalf after the his defeat by the Ents.
Yeah from my understanding most all his power was taken away. So he had no magic to attack frodo or anyone else with at that time. He was pretty much no different then any other old man
That fireball was only in the film. In the book, he is only using his Voice.
I never thought I would be that heavily invested with that part of the lore when I showed up for this video. I have just finished watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy last night and I still cannot believe that Saurman would go Rogue so drastically the way he did.
You can't tell it from the movies but in reality this happened over a period of centuries.
In the lore, Saruman is corrupted long before the events of LotR (or the Hobbit, though he does not appear in that story's text). There is an element that all the wizards except Gandalf "forget" the circumstances they left the Undying Lands in, so it becomes easy to drift off the central task given the centuries they spend in Middle Earth.
Saruman's long, long research has led him to conclude that Sauron is unbeatable even without the ring, unless someone sufficiently powerful (himself) finds it and wields it against Sauron. So even before we ever meet him or hear about him in the story, Saruman has already decided to a) recover the ring and usurp Sauron with it; and if that is not possible b) ally with the winning side (Sauron) if he ever fully rises again.
@@patriarch7237the movies unfortunately do not portray him as someone who wants to usurp Sauron and take the ring for himself. Book Saruman is not just a lackey.
Thank you for another wizard theme video!! I love this part of the lore of Middle Earth ❤
As a Maia of Aulë, Saruman has a vast knowledge of the elements and nature of the material world (Arda corrupted by Melkor's will). Considering knowledge as a concept that can be equated with power and considering that the corrupting effect of power is a dominant theme in Tolkien's mythology, it can be theorized that Saruman gained knowledge due to this knowledge and that he became corrupted by power by gaining power with this knowledge.
Knowledge and charisma go hand in hand. It's easier to persuade/influence others when you know what you're talking about (or at least pretend to know).
It would be cool to see a “What if Isildur didn’t die in the Anduin/survived longer” video. Been watching for years, love the content!
Edit: whoa, just got to the end and heard you were making that vid😂
Nice work dude thanks
Another great video!
Great vid 👍
I'd like to know how he was able to defeat Gandalf when he had the fourth most powerful ring.
didn't gandalf get carried away by the guards too? lol
If I remember, the Ring of Fire inspired the hearts and minds, and granted courage; I suspect a certain amount of 'fire resistance' as well.
Saruman was his own greatest weakness. He became less in actuality because in his mind he was so elevated over others, loosing his connection to his higher self reducing his magic and its effectiveness. I think the more he took the more spread out his magic was stretched. So thin that he was left powerless directly. He was his own enemy. Greed became his downfall.
I think that this video forgot one of Saruman's greatest "achievements", namely his breeding of the Uruks (Orcs that did not mind the daylight and were bigger and stronger than ordinary Orcs). As far as we can tell, this was the first "upgrade" of the Orcs since their origin, Ages past...
I think each of the istari had their gifts, strengths and use of powers. I think each of the wizards pretty much had the same or similar powers. The only reason Gandalf stood out a little more was because he had the ring of fire. Saruman’s main power was his voice and mind manipulation as well as controlling weak minds and if you look at the movies (I hadn’t read the books for a while) Saruman was able to command the mountains to send rock debri at the fellowship. He also used crows and ravens as spies on the fellow ship. He was able to grab Gadalf’s staff and send the wizard to the roof of Orthank. I’m pretty sure that if we were able to get a scene of Saruman fighting a balroque we would’ve seen a similar fight scene of him summoning lighting to strike the beast or using his staff to cause rocks to fall on him. Or we would’ve seen Saruman confuse the Balroque by brainwashing him to join him. I remember in another TH-cam video of the Witch King Angmar with the Nosgule confronting Saruman about Frodo and Saruman tells them he does’t have the Hobbit, even though Sauron sent them there because he learned from the palantier that Saruman had Frodo. I’m pretty sure the Witch King would’ve sliced him in half but Saruman confused him with his voice and made him leave empty handed and to go to the Shire.
I like to think that after his defeat at the Orthanc, he lost a good deal of the power he had, especially because Gandalf the Grey became Gandalf the White.
Makes you wonder what would've happened if Saruman had the Ring of Fire instead of Gandalf? Would he still be swayed by the Palantir and Ssuron? Would Gandalf be sent back after the battle with Durin's Bane?
Because he had the best-kempt beard.
I was trying not to laugh and when reading this!!!
Man, I just discuss Saruman's power before this video came out!!! *Score* Anyways my family where talking about how real world people can influence people and I said, "Saruman can, with his Voice." And they agreed with me!!!
Man why is it people in Arda who's nickname or are "the wise' aren't 1000% Wise?!!!
Thanks Mellon for this Video, Until: *we are going be in December and we getting a What If, (Smiles even though it ends badly)* What if Isildur survived?...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Sauron and Saruman were both Maiars of Aulë and highly charismatic manipulators, which makes me wonder if Aulë was also highly charismatic and had a way with words.
I really enjoy the notion of his voice really being like the threat, the books really convey the numinous powers of the Istari and the Isengard discussion, as well as Gandalf the White simply being unrecognisable to his friends at first attests to what the ineffable and magical means; it defies convention and assumption, making others forget, much as Sauron's song breaks Finrod by singing of the Elves Original Sin and not just elemental energy
Saruman had to have some degree of combat skills to have led the assault on Dol Guldur and to have imprisoned Gandalf the Grey. But when he faced Gandalf the White he was outmatched and Gandalf destroyed most of his remaining power.
I imagine that Saruman is deprived of his power either through the intervention of Eru (who essentially granted his role to Gandalf) or in a similar manner to Morgoth, pouring the extent of his natural abilities into the creation of his armies
Thank you
I think it's less that Saruman doesn't have great "direct combat" power and more that he doesn't need it when we see him, as his true danger is the power of his voice and his devices & industry. When directly attacking others would have been necessary during the Scouring of the Shire, he is so diminished (by losing his authority as the White, by expending his power dominating orcs and men, by creating his own ring, by the breaking of his staff, etc.) that he's fallen to the state of a mere bully who could just barely manage to temporarily conquer the peaceful Shire, much less threaten Middle Earth.
Ultimately, Saruman was much less natively powerful than Sauron. He thought he could become like the Dark Lord, but the reality is he was in a much lower league. Melkor diminished himself by spending his power to conquer the world and imbuing much of himself into his servants. Then Sauron did the same thing by dominating the wills of others and creating his One Ring. But when Saruman tried to follow in their footsteps, he simply did not have enough spiritual power (without capturing the Ring) to accomplish this without spreading himself too thin. He accomplished an impressive speedrun for spending all of his power and was left with so little that all he could do was sweet talk his way out of Orthanc and gather bandits to terrorize the Shire.
Consider: if Gandalf the Grey were substantially more powerful in combat than Saruman the White, would Saruman have dared to capture and imprison him? Even with Orthanc crawling with his minions, what good is it for Saruman to know that Gandalf would be trapped in the tower by thousands of orcs *after* defeating him and foiling his plans? That Gandalf surrendered says to me that at the very least, it was not worth considering fighting his way out or capturing Saruman himself.
I wonder if being overthrown as the White may have been the last straw that sapped what remained of his power -- perhaps a limitation placed on his access to their native power in the form of the Istari? Perhaps it was wise after all to send them in limited forms! After all, Gandalf is sent back with a greater share of his native power as Gandalf the White. If he had access to that power fighting the Balrog, surely he'd have used it, which suggests that Saruman COULDN'T access the rest of his power in the form of the Istari, at least not without some other tools or devices.
Can you do a video on Radagast the Brown's powers?
His power was in his voice.
Arminius (Hermann in Germanic) meant War-Man. He fought on both sides; The Germanic Tribes & the Roman Empire. He walked the line on both sides. He would end up at Teutoberg Forest (Treegarth of Orthanc). Speaking of sides and boundaries, another name for him known to the Greeks was Hermes. Hermes the God of Boundaries who was regarded as a Trickster. And there you have 3 similar names, each with similar reputations but representing different cultures and origins. Saruman (Skilled-Man), Arminius (War-Man) & Hermes (Stone-Heap or Binding-One). And from the Far East (Hindu Mythology) he was known as Rama, the Ideal-Man.
How did he capture Gandalf, then? I'm having a hard time with this take that Saruman didn't 'spec' into combat magic. We may not see it directly on the page, but we must assume his powerful presence in the Unseen World could be brought to bear in a direct confrontation.
I very much agree that Saurunan’s greatest skills were not about magic for direct combat but more about wartime strategy. And, this knowledge matched the changing of the war in Earth. WW1 saw the first use of mechanization where one person could use a machine gun to kill hundreds where previous wars were all based on having more bodies to throw at the other side. LotR has plenty of battles with large numbers, but Sauruman then used a bomb at Helm’s Deep at part of a very different strategy to overcome an obstacle previously considered unreachable. Just like Europe, he still wasn’t about to abandon the use of tons of bodies. And, while winning sections of the battle, his overconfidence in his knowledge and savvy was ultimately why he failed to see how a people so beaten could still muster a comeback.
Wtf is a Saurunan?
I think that he might have had some combative capability, but when he was approached by Gandalf the Wight and his host he was smart to realize he is not a match for them anymore and so choose to not do battle. Great video as always. 😊
Michael Ramirez a political cartoonist did a cartoon critical of Hammas with a painting of Saruman as depicted by Christopher Lee on the wall. I thought that was unjust.
just a thought: The only Wizards who settled were Saruman and Radagast. Both of them got more and more familiar to their surounding folks... Radagast knew die animals around his "home" and used them as his "minions". So did Saruman who had the Wild-Men of Dunland. The Wild-Men were more accessable to his Powers so he concentrated to them, not to the folk of Rohan. So the dunlander's influence made him to fall for sauron, caused by pity for them.
just a thought...
Sauruman was an artificer/necromancer Think about it, with prep time he was able to
1. Alchemically produce gunpowder
2. Transfigure orcs into supet soldiers while animating new orcs
3. Create a ring of unknown power.
He also is ablw to charm people, much how gandalf can influence peoples will (it seems to just be a thing maia can do, thats saurons whole bit)
Gandalf had the elven ring of fire, so he has borrowed power from sauron, and glamdring to boot. Also his specialty is in dealing with flying things and the element of air since he serves manwe
Ah I'm here I'm here!!!
I feel like the difference in combat may just be due to experience. Neither olorin or curomir were taught to be warriors, but gandalf travelled and had to maintain physical combat skills and those would be enhanced by his mayar naure. Saruman just focused on texts and manipulating others. Powerful but not in a marshall sense.
I would argue that, as villains go, Saruman, when compared to Sauron, was certainly the more INTERESTING of the two, given his much more direct role on the story, particularly in the second book.
I just rewatched the Trilogy today 😅
I don't personally believe that the figure outside fangorn was saruman, firstly why would he appear to them disguised at all and secondly why would the horses come back? Did they wriggle their way out of saruman's spell? I don't think so.
I believe Radagast was still gathering creatures to help saruman, in denial about saruman's evil and stole their horses. But before he guided them to Isengard shadowfax intercepted him and told him of saruman's turn to evil. That's how the horses were returned but gandalf knew nothing of it.
To me it seems like the best explanation but obviously it is only a theory. :))
It was Saruman that appeared to them.
He's powerful due to his knowledge, intelligence, and magical abilities. His abilities allowed him to create armies and fortresses and control the will of others.
I think he did have combative power as he beat Gandalf in a wizard “fist fight”. I think his power was either spent by the end or lessened/taken away when Gandalf was resurrected as the white wizard.
Tolkien said that magic should always be mysterious and not fully explained. George RR Martin is primarily a Science Fiction writer where the tradition is that all things should be explained. This is just different from fantasy. I don’t want to know the economics of Lord of the Rings, while in Foundation it’s key to enjoying the novels.
Does GRRM explain how it works in GoT etc? I only know GoT from the TV show, but presumably non of the POV characters in the books know how magic works either, except if they witness its effects?
Saruman did have the combative magic - he went all out against Gandalf in the tower.
He did overpower Gandalf when he took him captive in Orthanc; I think we are led to believe that he was above such things and not often sully his hand to lesser carnal activity such as open handed battle. He chose craft and cunning instead
2:15 so was Gandalf. Insperation being a kind of positive manipulation.
As a Maiar sent to Middle Earth by the Valar to watch over Sauron, Saruman, and the other Maiar, took the forms of old Men and limited their true power and nature. But ever since Saruman openly declared himself a traitor, why didn’t he forsake all of these restrictions to his natural Maiar form and powers? Why does he retain the guise of a weak old man? To me I always thought that Saruman, for some reason, was still limited in what he could actually do and reveal. We see his voice is something extremely powerful, but it’s something unique to him and not because he’s a Maiar. I just think there is still so much power held back, for whatever reason, and that what he was in the Lord of the Rings is not what his full potential was.
1. The istari are constrained by Eru.
2. The main constraints are being human incarnate, they are not choosing to be old men, they are. They have some power and are physically serially longevial, (like elves) but they can only choose their actions, they cannot choose their nature/form/being.
3. Even Gandalf the White was not given access/permission to go toe to toe with Sauron, which he infers to the Three Hunters, that he is capable of.
@@Island.Badger Good explanation, thanks. I remember Gandalf saying that.
What about the ice storm on Caradhras? Wasnt that the manifest of his power?
Even though Tolkien does not state this
Saruman had a ring of power,,,,
The power of the ring was to control the hearts and minds of others,,,,
Like gandalf's red ring,,,
It was the counter to this,,,
Gandalf's ring inspired others...
Saruman's ring was like the one ring
Meaning that it had domination over others....
When the one ring was destroyed all other rings failed,,,
Since Saruman's ring was based on this magic his ring also failed
Well as a comparison that Professor Tolkien would have been absolutely against making... Hitler wasn't much of a physical type of guy... but he swayed millions with charisma and his words... there's a magic in that much like Saruman
Saruman seems to have more power in battle during the Hobbit movies compared to how his powers are portrayed in the LOTR Movies. He focuses more on his voice and political power later on in LOTR MOVIES.
Saruman had only 1d4 HP, and died from a single arrow of a halfling
❤
Was he powerful and dangerous? Yes, even though he got corrupted ... a corrupted Maiar is really powerful!
And yes, until he had that encounter with Gandalf, even after a lost battle, he would be able to get a new army...one way or another. If given time.
Gandalf kicking him out of the order sealed the deal. Remember, this is Gandalf the White, the now leader, he couldn't rob Saruman of all power, but without being part of the order his time and power was dimishing.
In the book they do meet him back underway from the crowing of the king and so on... a broken old men who is still quite capable and evil. And yes the shire...
The last scene of him shows that he was coasting on whatever power was left. And his demise... well... he never returned home. The same way Sauron after the destruction of the ring, was denied entrance home.
Yes Saruman and Sauron, connected and met the same fate. Saruman hoped to return home and was denied, Sauron OUTRIGHT denied!
First baby let's go
Congratulations! Now 1v1 me bfme
I wonder when he died and lost his physical form if he chose to go to the Valar and face his punishment or if his spirit fled like Sauron? Was he cast out into the void like Morgoth? If he chose to face his punishment, I doubt he would be cast out but his ego may have led his spirit to follow the same dark path. Hopefully there was enough good in him to turn it around.
The way in which his spirit tried to go west before being dispersed by the wind suggests to me that the Valar weren't allowing him home anytime soon. 😊
I actually hold the belief that Saruman is the greater threat. In time he would have invented weapons where a single person could take out several advisories.
I have not read the books but how does Saruman combat Gandalf and trap him on top of his tower when he first betrays the good guys? I mean if Gandalf's combative magic is theoretically stronger then wouldn't that mean he could have escaped their encounter using his combative skills/magic.
I'm still ognna watch the video, but... my first thought is... why WOULDN'T Saruman be so powerful? I mean even a human wizard isn't something to be taken lightly, and Saruman is far more than that
Saurus Man! Yeah!
When Gandalf the White returned from shadow, he said he was Saruman as he should be. He had been given all the best qualities of Saruman in addition to his own vast Maiar gifts (graces). Saruman was only bluster-powerful, a good orator whose voice twisted the word of truth he'd spent his life learning. That was the weakness that led to his downfall. He was a loser; it's the best way to put it. Gandalf by far was the greater.
So, Saruman was actually extremely powerful, he just distributed his power differently, like Morgoth going from a solo act who could break mountains effortlessly, becoming physically weaker and getting an army because it suited his goals. Gandalf traveled more, he went on dangerous adventures, Gandalf needed some combat skills to not die to the first band of orcs he ran into.
Saruman didn't do much for adventures, he gave counsel and accumulated servants. If you put them in a cage match, Gandalf wins, but if you took everyone who directly obeyed each of them and they went to war, Saruman comes out on top. Saruman was more like a real life politician, just more effective than any of them.
tl;dr- if Saruman had stayed faithful, Saruman helping command from afar would do way more good than Gandalf leading from the front.
I disagree with your comment at 2:20 that Sauron himself was a warrior. Literally every time he individually faces off against someone in combat he loses lol
😍😍😍😍💕👌
Doesn't he capture an imprison Gandalf? That takes some combat skill.
What if Fingolfin killed or at least destroyed Morgoth’s body by beheading him in their Duel?
What if Sauron shits?
@@cherub3624 Got a problem with me
Saruman had the Thu'um
i dont believe those words used at the beginning were even spoken by Sarumen. They were Grima's.
1st view! Whooooooo!
Add a comment
Gandalf the white, Gandalf the FOOL
Because Christopher Lee was that powerful
He has combative magic in BfME.
I don’t think Saruman was very powerful. We know he was not the first choice to lead the white council and was jealous Gandalf. He seemed to demand more recognition than he deserved and had an overinflated ego. He knew he was limited and not as strong as he projected, hence why he sided with Sauron and tried to forge a ring of power that boosted his limited power - I do think the ring he forged did grant him power, even with his staff broken. He knew he did not measure up but tried to pretend he was more than what he was. His desire to live up to the image he created, believed himself to be, was what lead to his downfall as he knew could never live up to his own expectations, much less those expectations of others of him.
I think Saruman’s “power” was in his knowledge. I think some of his ‘power’ of persuasion came from that knowledge - people listened to him as they perceived him to have great knowledge - thus granting / being acceptable to his “power” of persuasion. The persuasion power was given to him by those who believed him to be great. Those did not believe him to be the great and mighty “white wizard”, he did not have that sway over them.
One of the rare disappointing aspects in Jackson's movies is his handling of Saruman's character.
Aside from his nonsensical appearance in the Hobbit movies, Jackson did a pretty bad job at conveying the crucial aspects his personnality, and what his real strengths/weaknesses actually are.
Omitting the chapter "Voice of Saruman", his true death as well as giving too much screentime on his combat against Gandalf was out of place IMHO.
Again, Jackson's choices were made out of cinematographical purposes, which is totally fine, but the overall treatment of Saruman failed at conveying his true power, which relies on intelligence, not on strength and a powerful army.
The Voice of Saruman scene is only in the extended cut of the film, and includes his murder transposed from the Scouring of the Shire. I don't recall it shows him making much use of the voice (unlike the book), he just goes straight into sneering villain mode.