Great to see this testing! Thanks for the effort behind it and sharing the details so well, as usual. It really helps answer one of the key questions related to power and rocker plate use. Nice to know that we can trust the trainer and power data when using motion for trainers :D
@@gplama I've learned to Never doubt Galen. Dude shows up to local tuesday night cat 1 crits on a fixed gear 60T Front ring, with 160mm cranks (he's over 6ft) and proceeds to do crazy things...
Used those tactics on a chaingang once. They work, especially if your MAP is good. Never quite got it to work in races.Damn I hate the look of rocker plates!
Nice, loving the sprint tips too. Interesting using the ball pressure to act as a levelling thing, instead of a counter-weight, but as long as it doesn't make it feel wonky then hey.
I have one team mate who over achieves in sprints and his strategy is quite often to kick after someone, than ease up sit in their draft for a couple seconds and than kick again.
Hey Shane. I’ve got my KICKR bike on an Omnirocker. Always felt that it didn’t give me the same power output as I get outdoors. Watching this I might take it off and do some similar tests. Be interesting to know your take on it also.
I built my own from the design by Andrew Grabbs, it has fore-aft and side to side and I absolutely love it, I have over 30 years experience riding trainers and the fore-aft motion is the key to any rocker, IMO. I have no interest in power numbers, I rely on perceived effort.
Why is fore-aft key. There’s no real scenario on the road where the bike is moving in this motion. It tends to be a relatively constant forward and the side to side motion as efforts increase 🤷🏼♂️
@@Maxibsa I had one briefly - it's useless. The forward and aft isn't any normal type of road movement (I cycle 8,000km on the roads each year) and the side to side is the opposite of what happens on the road. Ie. if you push down hard with your right pedal the bike is moving to the left on the road but on this thing it goes right and leaves your legs hinged awkwardly which risks injury. Its a failure for any proper cyclist
@@chrismccannIRL The problem for me is that I can't ride indoors for long because of the fix position of the road bike. It is so uncomfortable.for me. A rocker plate helps me to ride longer indoor sessions
Thanks for the great review and zwift tips. Do you think an Elite Direto would work on this rocker plate given the Velcro cutouts and the orientation of trainer’s legs? Thank you.
I'm thinking of releasing the Lama Lab Test as an open standard for people to use when doing their own testing/power comparisons. It's extremely useful for comparisons/evaluations if everyone can follow a similar protocol.
Hi, thanks for this video. I realized you mention you don’t use rocker plates during your normal rides and workouts. Do you have a personal opinion on them? Keep on watching TH-cam channels from other pros and don’t see them using rockets either. Interested on your take! 😊 Thanks in advance 💪🏻
Hello how are you Shane first of all great videos great content. I want to ask you something its any possibility if you can make a video about how to use resistance mode on wahoo kickr v5 all videos i found is all about ERG MODE how about people like me who doesn't like ERG MODE how we use resistance mode and how to set it up. Thanks so much in advance.
The answer would be "It depends". It depends on the type of rocker, the setup, how a rider sprints, and how much they've 'trained' themselves to sprint on the rocker. Sprinting on a rocker is nothing like sprinting outside where the bike moves A LOT differently.
The MP1 has been the most interesting. Unfortunately Larry from InsideRide took it upon himself to troll me from an anonymous account a little while back for my views on rollers... he was found out, called out, and I won’t be touching anything from his company on principle. It might be a great product, but I simply don’t care after his actions.
you should run that test with the Saris MP1 - i go with a Kickr Bike - Saris MP1 combo & have the feeling that the forward/backward motion has an significant influence in sprints, under high load and uphill. still way more comfortable.
My bike has broken after a few years being used as a dedicated indoor bike on the Kickr. It was an alloy bike which has some flex so wouldn’t want to use carbon indoors tbh. So a rocker plate is safer if you want to remove the risk of damaging your frame if used indoors
As you would say Shane - hmmmm. Not sure that was a proper race sprint, looked a bit like a sprint on a cafe ride, others were content to roll to the line, but you kicked, so they did.
I don't believe those numbers. There should be some power difference between the rear trainer and the crank. See road.cc & velonews use of that difference to analyze lubricants and drive train losses. You don't have any loss between the two. Something is screwy.
There's nothing to not believe in. Those are the numbers. My test protocol is solid. I don't adjust the data. If the reference data you're referring to is from companies who have a vested interest in advertising or selling low friction components and accessories... then.... well.... that's another problem. Maybe Wahoo are factoring in a small amount of drivetrain loss? Maybe the claimed losses aren't as large as they want people to believe. I have a LOT of comparative datasets. I just don't see the same numbers as claimed through drivetrain losses using an optimal setup/chainline/etc. If I could prove their claims, this channel would be a GOLDMINE for them to send products to for evaluation. There's more to this..... but that's the summary.
@@gplama I just don't accept the supposition that the drive train is perfectly efficient. But I might be willing to accep the notion that Wahoo might jazz the numbers. Did they send you the trainer directly or did you buy it 'off the rack'?
@@deuterateddad5989 I'll accept they're within the claimed accuracy ranges, which could explain whey they're close. The trainer was from commercial stock here in AU.... so no need to go down that line of thinking. Anyhow... all off topic. The video itself was regarding the calibration/reporting with and without a rocker.
Great to see this testing! Thanks for the effort behind it and sharing the details so well, as usual. It really helps answer one of the key questions related to power and rocker plate use. Nice to know that we can trust the trainer and power data when using motion for trainers :D
Shane hit them with the "GG EZ Clap" after the sprint.
Way to read the other riders and get the early jump on them. Thanks for the eval on the rocker.
Quality content as always 👍
I remembed trying the Saris rocker at CABDA 2019. Idk about feeling power but it was fun riding one
I'm going to try my rollers on a rocker plate!
RIP 🪦
@@gplama I've learned to Never doubt Galen. Dude shows up to local tuesday night cat 1 crits on a fixed gear 60T Front ring, with 160mm cranks (he's over 6ft) and proceeds to do crazy things...
Yes, please put the SB20 on a rocker!! Mass meeting movement.
🐘🛹
Put my wattbike on a homebrew rocker.works a treat!👍
Used those tactics on a chaingang once. They work, especially if your MAP is good. Never quite got it to work in races.Damn I hate the look of rocker plates!
You need the sauce for strava extension :)
I’m sad not to see a kickr climb on this contraption
Nice, loving the sprint tips too. Interesting using the ball pressure to act as a levelling thing, instead of a counter-weight, but as long as it doesn't make it feel wonky then hey.
I have one team mate who over achieves in sprints and his strategy is quite often to kick after someone, than ease up sit in their draft for a couple seconds and than kick again.
I've already managed to crash off my Vortex trainer, a rocker plate would just ruin me :)
Would love to see a DIY Bunnings/Amazon rocker plate tutorial from you. Maybe the one with fore and aft movement?
Ultimate setup: Tacx Neo (w/downhill drive), Wahoo Kickr Climb and Wind, Elite Sterzo and a rocker plate 🤯
Hey Shane. I’ve got my KICKR bike on an Omnirocker. Always felt that it didn’t give me the same power output as I get outdoors. Watching this I might take it off and do some similar tests. Be interesting to know your take on it also.
The ability to create power vs the power being accuracy reported are different things. A topic I’m not going into..... for now.
@@gplama yes. A much better way to put it! Now how to test that? RPE and HR using the same efforts?
I built my own from the design by Andrew Grabbs, it has fore-aft and side to side and I absolutely love it, I have over 30 years experience riding trainers and the fore-aft motion is the key to any rocker, IMO. I have no interest in power numbers, I rely on perceived effort.
Why is fore-aft key. There’s no real scenario on the road where the bike is moving in this motion. It tends to be a relatively constant forward and the side to side motion as efforts increase 🤷🏼♂️
@@chrismccannIRLbecause you can move the bike under you. Which also Happens Outside if you go out of the saddle
@@Maxibsa I had one briefly - it's useless. The forward and aft isn't any normal type of road movement (I cycle 8,000km on the roads each year) and the side to side is the opposite of what happens on the road. Ie. if you push down hard with your right pedal the bike is moving to the left on the road but on this thing it goes right and leaves your legs hinged awkwardly which risks injury. Its a failure for any proper cyclist
@@chrismccannIRL The problem for me is that I can't ride indoors for long because of the fix position of the road bike. It is so uncomfortable.for me. A rocker plate helps me to ride longer indoor sessions
Thanks for the great review and zwift tips. Do you think an Elite Direto would work on this rocker plate given the Velcro cutouts and the orientation of trainer’s legs? Thank you.
I haven't tried. I can't see why that wouldn't work.
You're a mind reader lol thinking of buying this!
Can you use the Kickr climb with the rocker plate?
Mr Lama, any chance you could add the Lama trainer test workout to the Lama Library on Whatsonzwift? Looks like a solid workout
I'm thinking of releasing the Lama Lab Test as an open standard for people to use when doing their own testing/power comparisons. It's extremely useful for comparisons/evaluations if everyone can follow a similar protocol.
@@gplama that would be appreciated!
+1 for this pleaee
Hi, thanks for this video. I realized you mention you don’t use rocker plates during your normal rides and workouts. Do you have a personal opinion on them? Keep on watching TH-cam channels from other pros and don’t see them using rockets either.
Interested on your take! 😊
Thanks in advance 💪🏻
See my other videos on them. All explained there.
@@gplama I’ll do! Thanks for the amazing content!
I have my Wahoo kickr smart bike on a rocker plate without any problems
Hello how are you Shane first of all great videos great content. I want to ask you something its any possibility if you can make a video about how to use resistance mode on wahoo kickr v5 all videos i found is all about ERG MODE how about people like me who doesn't like ERG MODE how we use resistance mode and how to set it up. Thanks so much in advance.
Resistance mode as in level mode (0-10 levels of resistance), or interactive resistance mode that simulates virtual terrain?
would you put a concept2 rower or a treadmill on an unstable surface? daft.
I don’t do rowers 🤷🏻♂️
does it make any sense to try a Wattbike on a rocker plate?
Maybe.... I don’t have access to one to try this.
Yep, loads of people including me have done it...works a treat
Gday Lama….maybe you could do a video on IF rocker plates impact your ability to generate peak power….. the jury is out for me.
The answer would be "It depends". It depends on the type of rocker, the setup, how a rider sprints, and how much they've 'trained' themselves to sprint on the rocker. Sprinting on a rocker is nothing like sprinting outside where the bike moves A LOT differently.
The question is would you break your frame during that sprint if it was not on a rocker plate
No. I’ve done thousands of sprints indoors and never broken a frame.
Hi Shane! What’s your favourite rocker so far? Have you tried the inside ride e flex yet?
The MP1 has been the most interesting. Unfortunately Larry from InsideRide took it upon himself to troll me from an anonymous account a little while back for my views on rollers... he was found out, called out, and I won’t be touching anything from his company on principle. It might be a great product, but I simply don’t care after his actions.
you should run that test with the Saris MP1 - i go with a Kickr Bike - Saris MP1 combo & have the feeling that the forward/backward motion has an significant influence in sprints, under high load and uphill. still way more comfortable.
Ability to produce watts on a rocker is a different test to accuracy.
Go Canada!
My bike has broken after a few years being used as a dedicated indoor bike on the Kickr. It was an alloy bike which has some flex so wouldn’t want to use carbon indoors tbh. So a rocker plate is safer if you want to remove the risk of damaging your frame if used indoors
Two conclusions I wouldn’t be making based on one broken alloy frame.
I bought the Saris rocker platform and I HATE it. I can't even get rid of it, so it's a $1200 waste.
As you would say Shane - hmmmm. Not sure that was a proper race sprint, looked a bit like a sprint on a cafe ride, others were content to roll to the line, but you kicked, so they did.
It’s always a sprint.
Sprint was down hill. Would be different up hill i think
I don't believe those numbers. There should be some power difference between the rear trainer and the crank. See road.cc & velonews use of that difference to analyze lubricants and drive train losses. You don't have any loss between the two. Something is screwy.
There's nothing to not believe in. Those are the numbers. My test protocol is solid. I don't adjust the data. If the reference data you're referring to is from companies who have a vested interest in advertising or selling low friction components and accessories... then.... well.... that's another problem.
Maybe Wahoo are factoring in a small amount of drivetrain loss? Maybe the claimed losses aren't as large as they want people to believe. I have a LOT of comparative datasets. I just don't see the same numbers as claimed through drivetrain losses using an optimal setup/chainline/etc.
If I could prove their claims, this channel would be a GOLDMINE for them to send products to for evaluation. There's more to this..... but that's the summary.
@@gplama I just don't accept the supposition that the drive train is perfectly efficient. But I might be willing to accep the notion that Wahoo might jazz the numbers. Did they send you the trainer directly or did you buy it 'off the rack'?
@@deuterateddad5989 I'll accept they're within the claimed accuracy ranges, which could explain whey they're close. The trainer was from commercial stock here in AU.... so no need to go down that line of thinking. Anyhow... all off topic. The video itself was regarding the calibration/reporting with and without a rocker.
@@deuterateddad5989 drive chains are not perfectly efficient. The losses are just too small to actually measure with today's power meters period.