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I really like Mauseitter’s approach, it is close to what I’m trying, which is to have Burdens and Conditions divert “Spirit” tokens (which represent your vitality) away from the Tasks they are used to accomplish. Are there other types of systems that jointly streamline the health and engagement mechanics?
My long-standing rule for encumbrance in my games is essentially "I don't care how heavy your equipmemt is, I care how you're actually carrying it." So at various points, usually when the players come across a big treasure haul or need to perform some athletic activity, I'll ask the players to explain how they're carrying everything. Depending on this explanation, they get lumped into one of four categories: Unburdened (non-restrictive clothing and minimal equipment), Light Gear (armour, weapons, pouches, restrictive clothing), Heavy Gear (full backpacks, travel supplies) and Overburdened (carrying large, unwieldy objects or laden with sacks of treasure). It's served me well so far, as my players tend to be reasonable about saying "yeah, I don't think I can carry that." Probably wouldn't work well for a published system though, where you can't rely on having such players.
I really like this, as it eliminates the need for tracking (either pounds or slots), and is very immersive into the story. I suspect it might run into problems with items like D&D 5e where you can just say "I toss it in the Bag of Holding". I'm curious what kind of implications you assign to your four categories - does it affect travel speed? Combat?
@@GriffinStitches For the most part, the penalties are improvised and treated narratively. Heavy Gear makes activities which would be hard or impossible while wearing a full hiking pack impossible and impedes your fighting ability, Overburdened means you basically can't do anything physical *except* carrying your load, Unburdened means you can sprint faster. Heavy Gear and Overburdened do have some specific numerical penalties regarding movement speed, attack bonus and AC in combat though.
good video! Just can we talk about how ben's room gets smaller and smaller? Ben's eventually just gonna become a sentient bookshelf with an overdub of his voice
I was literally just typing out a comment saying I like to use the video gamey grid for item slots when you brought it up! I really like that it ends up representing not only how much weight a character can carry, but also the puzzle aspect of making it all fit - almost like packing a bag to go camping.
Thanks, Dael! I forgot to mention in the video that Troika! also has a fun mechanic where the order in which you list your items matters. The first couple items you can grab any time, since those are on top, but if you want to grab an item buried deeper in your pack during a tense situation, you have to roll a number equal to its depth to do it. So players start packing their bags strategically.
Slot based systems also make more sense. The plate armor you are wearing on your body doesn't weigh you down nearly as much as the looted one you're carrying on your back due to weight distribution. *However* I think a slot encumbrance system only works well if there are a limited amount of different size categories (say 5, where a category 3 is the largest that can fit in your backpack) and items like your worn armor and weapons (up to a reasonable point) are excluded from the calculation. Choosing heavier gear should not penalize players in regular play, it will come into play in situations like swimming, climbing, or long distance running.
In my homebrew rules, a slot is : - 100 GP - 100 similar objects, smaller than a fingernail - 10 similar objects, smaller than a thumb - 1 day of rations - 1 weapon/book/bottle/torch/etc.. And we go from there, estimating each objects based on that table. Works great for us !
@@jeffreykershner440 We go with strength score, but strength modifier + something (5,10,20... depending on how limiting you want the inventory to be) would also work i think !
My favourite system for this is Stars Without Number. Items, including weapons and armour, have an Encumbrance rating (usually 1 or 2 but sometimes 3). PCs have a Readied Encumbrance (equal to half their Strength) and a Stowed Encumbrance (equal to their full Strength). Readied items can be drawn freely, Stowed items require an action to pull out.
When my son was around 9, I printed out cards like the mouse game and had him manage his inventory based on the size of his pack (huge packs reduce dexterity). Additionally, he had "pockets" or "pouches" for items at the ready, so his pack might be full of potions, but he could only have four available in combat. Or three and one item, etc. To get items out of the pack required one turn to drop it (dex penalty gone) and another turn to root around in it. It could be done in combat if needed, but added more tension. We have used the same system for years now.
I got the rules I use from mouse guard. It has a front and back outline of your character. You have to draw everything you wearing, and holding onto that character. If you can’t do it you can’t carry it. It also brings you into the game by being able to look down and see yourself as well as you can draw it. It’s easier to see how absurd carrying a lot of stuff is when you take away the list and give the gear portrait
It's rather common for GMs to give players a really important item that will be needed later, or for the players to pick up a plethora of circumstantial items that they forget about. Tracking encumbrance forces players to become keenly aware about what they're carrying, and, least in my experience, this helps players actually use that equipment. Excel spreadsheet or something equivalent and you can make it tangible without wasting time fiddling.
We've been running Knave at our table for a while now and I strongly recommend people trying out the inventory system. The hype is real! The players immediately become more immersed trying to figure out how to carry all the loot and weighing the relative value of things they want.
When I ran my first 5e game about 5 years ago and announced that I would be using encumbrance rules, the players immediately began to whine about not having Bags of Holding because tracking encumbrance was too hard. A slot system would take the wind out of that bagged argument.
I would hazard a guess that every 5E game that tracks encumbrance ends up with a bag of holding before too long. The temptation to reward your players with cool stuff is too great.
I had a GM that was a bear on encumbrance. Thank God for bags of holding. Sometimes when I run a campaign, the very first "quest" is researching and finding all the required materials to make a bag of holding for a shop keeper, the reward of course would be a small bag of holding for everyone, (if they performed very well) or just one for the entire party
Another good reason to limit inventory: if players have a hundred items in their pack, they are going to forget about some of them. There will be things that are useful for encounters that they end up not using, and there may even be pot-relevant items that they forget they they have. A number of times I have had to remind players that their PC has already found the thing that an NPC is looking for.
Runequest had (has) something similar. Every character has an ENC score, with a little formula to calculate it - average of STR and CON, but no greater than STR. Then any item that can be easily held in one hand is called a "thing". Two handed weapons mostly count as two "things". Some very large weapons count for 3. Most non-metal armor counts for 1, metal armor 2, but a few exotic armors are more.
In my system, a nuD&D-derivative off of the SWSE chassis, I've been waffling between traditional encumbrance and item slots and your video has helped me decide to use item slots.
I found this channel a few days ago and it seems you have advice for just about every issue I've had with 5e I bought Knave and I'm looking a lot more into old school renaissance systems. Thank you so much
I think item slots is an interesting approach. For me personally, I use the "reasonability test". It's pretty straight forward - what is reasonable for your character to carry? Usually it pairs down to 1 suit of armor (no one walks around with 4 sets of armour, sorry!), 2 - 3 weapons (3 if one is a dagger - and this includes quivers, scroll cases, etc.), and then basic delving, exploring, and survivable equipment that can all fit into a large backpack. No weights, slots, tetris-ing, etc. Thing is, across dozens of different folk and people, I've only ever had to enforce the rule once. Individuals know what's reasonable and what's not.
Pathfinder's "Bulk" system reminds me of I've seen OSR websites talk about the stone system. Here's a run down: Weight is in Stones, not pounds. A stone is an archaic weigh measurement. Your max load is your strength score in stones. You are heavily encumbered at 2/3 Str or more in stones, and lightly encumbered once you hit 1/3. Plate mail=4 stones Medium armor= 2 stones Light armor and 2-handed weapons= 1 stone Hand weapons, Ammo bundles, and most adventuring gear= 1/3 stone Potions, Rations, jewelry, small tools, daggers= 1/10 stone Loose gemstones, coins= 0 Stones, but a thousand coins equals a stone.
This video was super informative. After watching this I have made a homebrew slot based encumbrance system for fith edition. Basically: the amount of slots are your strength score. And I put all the items from the Players Handbook into an excel document with 1, 1/2, 1/4 or 1/10 slot size (or some take up several slots, like a ladder). Every other item, like magic items I just rule the size/weight on the fly.
I just tackled this problem for a home brew!!! I agree, the resource management in the decision making is fun!!! I did a little study to start, surveying a bunch of games to see what they did. In order of highest to lowest complexity, I labeled them -- Accounting (count everything), Slot-Based, Common Sense (i.e., DM judges), and No Encumbrance. I wound up choosing the slot-based system of Lamentations of the Flame Princess as the model for my equipment/encumbrance/movement rules.
I’m really surprised you didn’t mention Veins Of The Earth’s system for encumbrance where your stat modifiers each have a slot box associated with every modifier point. It’s by far my favorite rpg book ever made. I’m currently home brewing a sci-fi version. I can’t recommend that book enough. Get it while LOTFP is still selling it (or anything for that matter).
It is interesting to see the evolution of slot based encumbrance. Knave 1E had spell books with 1 use/day, Cairn used an additional slot for casting a spell, and then Knave 2E uses wounds like mouseritter used conditions.
The idea to make spells occupy the same slots as encumbrance is GENIOUS. It solves soo many problems: - slots for carrying is indeed the most fun way to track encumbrance. - it makes spell components (the stuff you need to cast the spell that occupies the slot) play a role without being more boring bookkeeping - it naturally limits the number of spells the wizard can take with them, as they'd need the components, making a vancian system actually make sense - it makes strenght more valuable, AND explains why wizards would have less "mundane" items and armour. Same counts for lightly armoured and armed 'scouting' characters, btw, as they have more trinkets and tools. It'd even explain better why some divine characters can wear heavier armour, as their source of magic doesn't require components.
Wizardry, an Apple II game and one of the early inspirations for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy had a basic 8-item slot encumbrance rule. Since it was based on early D&D, a lot of the game involves slogging back and forth between whatever floor you were last on and filling up the handful of empty inventory spaces you had left after taking equipment into account. The game also had it where if a party was killed, you could create a new party and if you could make it back to where your bodies were, you could not only get your old equipment back if you had inventory space, but if you had space in your party, you could bring back some of the bodies for a chance at resurrection.
This was a great video and I get a strong feeling you run really fun games. We are in a second ed ravenloft game where we just defeated the three hag darklords in Tepest. While a misplaced bomb demolished their house and most of the loot, we ended up with their massive cauldron even our 18/80 fighter couldn't lift. So being a wizard I poly morphed into a bear on top of it and circus rolled that thing to town.
For D&D 5E I can highly recommend "Darker Dungeons" by Giffyglyph. It has simple and fun rules for slot based inventory, survival conditions, stress and lingering injuries and many more modular rules that makes 5E more dark and gritty. I've been using it for a while now and it's impossible to go back to the vanilla rules.
I strongly second Darker Dungeons. It contains lots of great, well considered rules for just about all styles of play, and its slot based inventory system is exceptional.
I made simple item cards for my home game. The players or the GM can fill them with the respective stats and info. But they didn't have a well marked spot for weight, so I just went there and modified my template, thanks! Now they'll be able to arrange them on top of one another so that the most relevant info sticks out, and the weight can be easily counted.
I am very happy too encounter this video, gonna share this with my players and hopefully they are willing too give it a try. Gonna make a Diablo bag system, also geting bag of holding gonna be so much meaningful as well and very rewarding for players! Many Thanks Questing Beast!
I've been using a system where items are given a score based on bulk, typically between 0 and 3. Players have a carry weight that is rather low and based on sizes and strength. Think 8 to 12. Works rather well for us. Allows for imposing limits without too much math. A well armed warrior is at 6 weight from plate, shield, and long sword. Throw in rope, tent, and dungeoneering kit and your nearing the limit. An extra piece of chalk or a hammer won't break you, but hoarding weapons might. Makes the team donkey much more important. :p
B/X "coin weight" is my favorite. After players add up their armor, weapons and gear they're left with the exact number of coins they can haul. It also easily converts into 16 one hundred coin slots. Gear RAW states that all adventuring gear counts as 80cw total. I allow 3 items to fit into this "slot" (usually a waterskin, ration and torch bundle) but any additional items beyond that cost 100cw each. Simple as.
I like the 5 + Strength bonus number of items before you're encumbered, and+ 5 more before you can't move anymore, or only at a crawl. This would work for Fantasy Flight Games' Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader etc (40k rpgs) as well, so I think I'm gonna institute it in the next adventure. Excellent video, cheers. Your room looks like the book section of a well-stocked hobby shop!
RuneQuest 2 in 1978 or so had a slot based system. ENC was broken down in to a thing (something you could hold in one hand) and you could carry so many things based on CON and STR.
An excellent, historically based rule suggestion I came across (may have been from Bat in th Attic), was using stones. 1 STR = 1 stone (14 lbs.) Heavy items were listed in single stones, so a double axe might be one stone and a longsword half a stone. If I remember correctly, he advised working in units of one stone for heavy items and three items per stone for light stuff. For very light objects, only very large amounts would count as ⅓ stone.
I would say that a more realistic weight would be 1/2 a stone for a greataxe/greatsword, and a 1/4 stone for a longsword. Light armor with a helmet would probably be one stone, medium two, and heavy four. A medium sized shield might be roughly half a stone too, but the largest shields can certainly weigh a full stone.
Mausritter's system is super cool, it and Knave's slot based system has inspired me to create an inventory system that uses a grid based system similar to like Diablo and other computer game rpg's inventories. Some of the items look like how they should look (heavy armor looks like pieces of armor, etc.) and then some stuff is weird polyomino type shapes (tetris-y shapes) such as the magic spell runestones and conditions you can get. It has been super fun in my group's play-testing but we have all enjoyed weird computer rpg inventory management so it may not end up being for everyone haha. It has been super intuitive, simple, but also deep.
@@jeffreykershner440 currently I built an app because we are in coronavirus mode and playing online. But the first prototype I did it in person and I basically premade lots of cut out shapes made of grid blocks for the items, conditions, and runestones (magic) and then I just handed them to the players and they have to fit them on top of their 10x10 inventory grid and if they can't they can't hold on to them unless its a condition which they have to fit.
Funny you were talking about spells taking up spell slots. Wizard's spell books can get quite Chonky in 2e AD&D. I had one wizard that was encumbered basically just carrying his book around. XD
For 5e i just used the variant encumbrance in my ice wind dale game and my players have been pretty receptive to it. I didn't have to reinvent the inventory system or have them learn a new system, but it did immediately make them think about what they need and what they don't and how they're gonna take care of a sled and beats of burden.
I only just recently discovered this channel. So far I like the content, keep up the good work. I have been in campaigns in the past where everyone back pack acted like a bag of holding and I agree it does take away from the game experience. The slot based tracking is an interesting idea, and one that I have played in before. It makes item choices more important.
Great Video! I love item slots. I use the Anti-Hammerspace system myself but it's essentially the same. I also modify the number of containers available by STR mod instead of just armor. It was GREAT for Dungeon Crawl Classics.
a great visual example of the slot based system is the video game Diablo. In my campaign (I enforce encumbrance) I have had players dumping food and gear to carry more loot out of a dungeon. Makes for some great tension as they try to get back to town without delay.
I really liked the fatigue system. I use a VTT (FGU) which is not very illustration friendly, it can be done with some work. But I do use encumbrance, I believe according to 1st edition D&D it was a measure of weight and bulk. The slot system is a great idea. By making (1lb = 1 slot), you take care of both components of encumbrance.
I ran a Skyrim game the other day due to our regular DM being out and I had to quickly homebrew some sort of capacity system. I ended up using a slot system just like this. It was determined by strength score (everyones was less than 10) and item size. (Food/potion/dagger= 1 slot. Sword/axe/shield/cheesewheel 2 slot, great weapon = 3 slot and armor = 4). I also allowed for any starting equipment to not be counted in, for brevity's sake. Skyrim being extremely combat heavy meant the players were stocking up on food and searching for potions whenever they could. Food was pretty much infinite but because it only healed 1 point (as a bonus action, once per turn) it was less effective than using a potion (1d4). But for the first time it felt like encumbrance was actually manageable and fun, since the players would trade items with each other when hurt or if they found too many potions.
I remember reading the loot dragons have and wondering how players would carry that. Even worse if you base it on what you see in the Hobbit movie, for Smaug. Mules and carts would take weeks or months, all the brigands for 100 mile radius would converge on the party.
I'll point out that with many digital character sheet, calculating weight isn't difficult. It will tell you how much you are carrying and how much to various encumbrance points (light, medium, heavy, or whatever). Even if you print it out, you then know how much to your next point. If you have 14lbs until you are moderately encumbered, fine. You typically aren't adding/removing equipment that much until you find something specifically heavy. Thus, you can mostly ignore it until you have to carry a suit of armor at which point you just assume you are moderately encumbered. If players get new armor or weapons, they can do a recalc when they level up and update their sheets (away from the table). Most players will typically 'revolt' if you make weight/slots too big of an issue. They'll bring mules or pack dogs, or get a bag of holding, horses, etc.
This is where tools can facilitate game play. I have an online character sheet that tracks all of this so players can, at a glance, see their encumbrance and movement impacts. In lieu of that, slots is absolutely the way to go. [Edit: Note, we play AD&D and embrace the mud and consequences - I direct everyone to AD&D 1e DMG pg. 225 for the gear preparations of Dimwall and Drudge and the consequences].
Very interesting video, thank you. I fully agree that encumbrance rules are often quite cumbersome in the vast majority of games while they could be fun to play by adding resource management into play. I like the new Alien RPG (Free League) rules. You can carry twice your Strength score in weight. Each object has a Weight of 2, 1, 1/2 or 1/4. Simple, straightforward.
New comment for an old video, but the new Transformers RPG by Renegade Studios uses slot-based item management. The system uses "Hardpoints" which all PCs have start with 4, 2 of which are their hands. Character options and Upgrades can manipulate this amount, but it is a nice clean sensible way to manage players weapons, gear and any support equipment (like bulldozer shovels, helicopter blades and hook & cables) the players characters have.
Blades in the Dark uses a slot based equipment system. At the beginning of a mission, you select if you are foing for a light, medium, or heavy load, and that'll determine how many things they can carry.
Stars without number uses encumbrance instead of weight. It is basically a slot based system. What i liked about it was that encumbrance wasn't tied to item weight, but how easiy it was to pack/carry
I use the following encumberance system (coming from WHFRPG E2): Categories: Tiny/Small/Normal/Great This not only regards size, also about weight. A great item takes 2 slots, a normal slot takes 1 slot. Small items take 1 slot but can hold per slot X copies / stacks (potions, food, torches, etc.) most of the times consumables, but also knives, daggers, mugs… if you can stack it, fold it or make a small bunch… its a candidate. Tiny items are so small, they just ignore the slot system. Examples: a broche that is added to the outfit, the inevitable Map, a letter, etc. Based on your Strength/Physical Attributes/Size you get more slots and more X. Armour uses a different system. The „always ready“ weapons also get a slot for free (like the inevitable hand-sword), but cannot be more than 3 slots (thinking sword+bow, sword+shield, 2 swords + dagger, great weapon + dagger)… I tried to write it in an system agnostic way.
Great video! My take; You can carry items equal to your strength score. Tiny items count as half or 1/4 of an item. Large count as two items. Bag of holding lets you carry extra items for free (Say, 5 items). You can only have one bag.
@@Jpteryx probably they repel each other like magnets, or maybe explode or something. Each character can only carry one I think. Though there could be grades (Lesser holds two item, greater 5)
The slot idea is great! Castles and Crusades uses something similar. Although, I do think the B/X rules of everything being measured in coins is pretty simple in its own way.
I was thinking the same thing with The Fantasy Trip from Steve Jackson games. I used the idea of "grenade equivalents" from his car wars game as an example that I sent him. Hopefully he will place it the "Hexagram" zine.
VTTs really help with encumbrance and weight tracking in my experience. That said, if I go back to playing in person, without tools, I will be using this/the pathfinder system. I am loving this series btw, your video on dungeon exploration is one of my favorites.
One interesting thing I find that some people have a taboo against, but I like, is using technology to help. Having a way to have computers manage all the math is a good way to get rid of Encumberance’s biggest weakness!
Torchbearer, while not exactly an OSR game, has developed the simple "x items or fewer" mechanic into an interesting slot-based system. You have different item slots for different parts of your body; for example, you have three torso slots which can be used for armour, backpacks & satchels (for extra inventory) and (IIRC) something arcane casters need to use their magic. So you can wear heavy armour, but that takes up 2 slots so you'll only be able to carry a satchel and will have limited room for other gear. Or if you play an arcane caster, although I don't think there's a rule against casting in armour you still probably don't want to be wearing more than leather as that would mean you'd have no inventory left for important things like scrolls and loot. If you find some fancy gloves, you can save room put them on so they occupy your hand slots instead of taking up slots in your backpack.
A while back, I was thinking about encumbrance and food. In 5e, the system I use, you need 1 lb of food per day, to avoid beginning to starve. It occurred to me that if a PC was overweight - that is, had more body fat than is healthy _for that character_ - the fat on their body should count towards how long the character can go without needing to eat. It's what fat is for, after all. Conveniently, since food consumed is measured in pounds, 1 lb of fat is the equivalent of 1 lb of food. I know that some OSR systems track fat as encumbrance, such as it taking up a certain number of item slots. Whether you're using slots, pounds, or coins as weight, though, you could easily track body fat (again, in excess of what is considered "healthy") as both extra encumbrance AND a supply of food that cannot be taken from the PC (well, not "healthily"; someone with a knife could very well take your fat from you). If you run out of provisions, the character will start eating through their girth before starvation sets in. It would provide a useful risk-reward system for players. Do they try to keep their characters in top condition, so they don't have the extra burden? Or do they allow themselves to put on some pounds, so they always have a certain amount of "food" in reserve? This sort of setup would also give PCs good cause to spend their earnings on higher quality lifestyles. In 5e, "lifestyle expenses" are a flat measure of one's daily requirements, given a certain quality of living; this includes what food and drink the character can consume. Having a lifestyle that is Comfortable or higher may result in the character putting on pounds of weight during downtime, if they aren't doing significant activity to burn it off. While this encourages the character to be active if they want to avoid becoming fat, it's also an easy way to put pounds on in preparation for adventuring. Another idea: If the PC has pounds of fat on their body, you could use those to sort of "buy off" Exhaustion that would otherwise result from heavy activity, like force marching. The character burns through their energy reserves quickly, so they don't become as tired. Granted, since fat = encumbrance, being too heavy may result in getting tired more easily due to the burden. It's a balancing act.
I have seen people do really fun stuff with item slots. Falling in water fills them with moist, getting tired fills them with fatigue, magically gaining weird amounts of weight fills them with fat and if you use roll under, whenever you try to stay afloat or hang from a precipice you might have to roll under your empty slots or start sinking/falling forcing a fun and iconic decision: do I drop my droppable gear to increase my chances at staying alive?
One advantage to tracking encumbrance that didn't come up is that it makes you aware of what you're carrying. So often I have players who completely forget about all the starting equipment your character gets in 5e, like crowbars and hammers.
I just want somebody to make a nice inventory system and sell it on dmsguild. Most of the inventories on there are ugly or just not simple enough for most (especially newer) players. The Tetris like inventory sounds incredible, but then you'd have to kind of draw the items into the boxes and not everybody is up for that.
The best system of encumbrance that i have seen is from the rpg ryuu-tama. You can carry your STR+3 with STR being a d4/d6/d8/d10/d12. All items have a size of 1, 3, or 5. Each point over adds a -X to all rolls, so 3 over = -3. Containers have a size but can hold X size in items which do not count against you carry capacity (ex. Backpack is size 3, but can hold 5 size). Most weapons are size 1 or 3 with armor being 3 or 5 (ex. Bow is 3, leather armor 3). An average person can carry 9 size and i can see yourself thinking that i use that on just my bow, armor, and backpack. Yes, but no. A rule that is found on the character sheet but kinda glanced over in the rule book is that equipped items are size 0. And each character can equip: 2 weapons, 1 armor, 1 shield, and 4 travel items (head, feet, back, and walking staff). However, you may never equip armor and weapons in total size in excess of your carrying capacity. So a human with 9 capacity can equip 9 size over 2 weapons and 1 armor for 0 capacity; May equip a shield, hat, feet, back, and walking staff at 0 capacity; and also carry 9 capacity its other items such as a backpack, bedroll, and rations. Its quick yet detailed enough for a system that is about traveling.
Incidentally, a normal medieval longsword weighed around 2-3 lbs, not 3-5. It's a little weird how people in the RPG space keep on overestimating the weight of a lot of weapons and armor - which, after all, were designed to be used in actual combat where cumbersome equipment would get you killed.
Great video! Always though 5e encumberence is too fiddly to actually use. Five torches deep gets a bit closer to making it usable but the best imo is the black hack where you can just carry a number of times equal to your strength. Also if you're already subbed to the glatisant i assume you're auto entered into the contest?
For fun, in the video game Pathfinder: Kingmaker, they use a really stringent rule for encumbrance. With 8 Strength, my character could not wear even leather armor (in addition to basic clothing and weapons), without being encumbered, which stifles the Dex bonuses, speed, etc. I am not whining : I adapted and respected the hardcore nature of that game. I used only magical bracers and later acquired many items that boosts said Ability Scores (I still just use powerful bracers and robes as I have insanely high Dex). - nb : BUT, if I am GM/DM, I would use a simplified limit similar to the Bulk system in PF2. i.e. you can carry x bulky items on your back. Also, x small items equates 1 bulk. (i.e. I make a difference between Bulky and 1 Bulk in my logic, so I should use different terms.)
Currently playing Mad Mage for 5E using Roll20. The character sheet computes the weight totals for me on the fly, which is pretty nice So yeh, digital tools kinda change the situation a bit But I do like Knave and Mausritter's systems for sure!
OD&D and BD&D got it right. 🙂 Weight in coins is the way to go. The real life weight of items are irrelevant because you only really need to know how much treasure you can haul. At the start of a session you add: armor, weapon, shield + 80 for equipment. Now you have your total encumbrance for the whole session. You know how much treasure you can grab before dropping in speed. Example : Sword 60 + Chain armor 400 + shield 100 + equipment 80 = 640. Encumbrance 640 has a movement speed of 60' per turn For this session the player knows that he can grab another 160 coins of treasure before he would drop to a speed of 30'. Max amount of treasure he can grab is 960 coins. This player only ever needs these two numbers during play. 160 coins before a drop in speed, maximum 960 coins. No further calculations necessary during this session. All you ever need. No pounds, no stones, no bulk, no "slots", no small/large items, no managing every single item. A maximum of 1600 coins of weight is logical. 400 in backpack, 600 in a large sack in right hand, 600 in a large sack in left hand. That equals 1600 coins. Done! 😁
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I really like Mauseitter’s approach, it is close to what I’m trying, which is to have Burdens and Conditions divert “Spirit” tokens (which represent your vitality) away from the Tasks they are used to accomplish.
Are there other types of systems that jointly streamline the health and engagement mechanics?
Please do a dragon warriors video. My first and favorite fantacy rpg (yes I'm from the UK started playing it in 87)
Item slots are the best rule I have yet to push on my players! Great topic, Ben!
My long-standing rule for encumbrance in my games is essentially "I don't care how heavy your equipmemt is, I care how you're actually carrying it." So at various points, usually when the players come across a big treasure haul or need to perform some athletic activity, I'll ask the players to explain how they're carrying everything.
Depending on this explanation, they get lumped into one of four categories: Unburdened (non-restrictive clothing and minimal equipment), Light Gear (armour, weapons, pouches, restrictive clothing), Heavy Gear (full backpacks, travel supplies) and Overburdened (carrying large, unwieldy objects or laden with sacks of treasure). It's served me well so far, as my players tend to be reasonable about saying "yeah, I don't think I can carry that." Probably wouldn't work well for a published system though, where you can't rely on having such players.
I really like this, as it eliminates the need for tracking (either pounds or slots), and is very immersive into the story. I suspect it might run into problems with items like D&D 5e where you can just say "I toss it in the Bag of Holding". I'm curious what kind of implications you assign to your four categories - does it affect travel speed? Combat?
@@GriffinStitches For the most part, the penalties are improvised and treated narratively. Heavy Gear makes activities which would be hard or impossible while wearing a full hiking pack impossible and impedes your fighting ability, Overburdened means you basically can't do anything physical *except* carrying your load, Unburdened means you can sprint faster. Heavy Gear and Overburdened do have some specific numerical penalties regarding movement speed, attack bonus and AC in combat though.
I made the mistake of giving them magical rope that leads up to an apartment theyve effectively turned into their bank
I use a similar system and it also served me well
@@RJ-1580 That's cool as hell though
good video! Just can we talk about how ben's room gets smaller and smaller? Ben's eventually just gonna become a sentient bookshelf with an overdub of his voice
everything is fine here. the walls are definitely not getting imperceptibly closer every day
Ben's room is Encumbered
Small room, big dungeon.
Lol
He had a very smart looking haircut so we can see his books better :-p
I was literally just typing out a comment saying I like to use the video gamey grid for item slots when you brought it up! I really like that it ends up representing not only how much weight a character can carry, but also the puzzle aspect of making it all fit - almost like packing a bag to go camping.
Thanks, Dael! I forgot to mention in the video that Troika! also has a fun mechanic where the order in which you list your items matters. The first couple items you can grab any time, since those are on top, but if you want to grab an item buried deeper in your pack during a tense situation, you have to roll a number equal to its depth to do it. So players start packing their bags strategically.
@@QuestingBeast I LOVE that!
Slot based systems also make more sense. The plate armor you are wearing on your body doesn't weigh you down nearly as much as the looted one you're carrying on your back due to weight distribution. *However* I think a slot encumbrance system only works well if there are a limited amount of different size categories (say 5, where a category 3 is the largest that can fit in your backpack) and items like your worn armor and weapons (up to a reasonable point) are excluded from the calculation. Choosing heavier gear should not penalize players in regular play, it will come into play in situations like swimming, climbing, or long distance running.
In my homebrew rules, a slot is :
- 100 GP
- 100 similar objects, smaller than a fingernail
- 10 similar objects, smaller than a thumb
- 1 day of rations
- 1 weapon/book/bottle/torch/etc..
And we go from there, estimating each objects based on that table. Works great for us !
How many slots do the PCs have? I feel that basing it on species and class would be a start.
@@jeffreykershner440 We go with strength score, but strength modifier + something (5,10,20... depending on how limiting you want the inventory to be) would also work i think !
@@alexh1687 Are you using strength score directly? As in, if I have a 13 strength I get 13 slots?
@@ComradeFurious Yep exactly ! (I said value but I meant score, I fixed the answer ^^)
I like that. 👍
My favourite system for this is Stars Without Number. Items, including weapons and armour, have an Encumbrance rating (usually 1 or 2 but sometimes 3). PCs have a Readied Encumbrance (equal to half their Strength) and a Stowed Encumbrance (equal to their full Strength). Readied items can be drawn freely, Stowed items require an action to pull out.
When my son was around 9, I printed out cards like the mouse game and had him manage his inventory based on the size of his pack (huge packs reduce dexterity). Additionally, he had "pockets" or "pouches" for items at the ready, so his pack might be full of potions, but he could only have four available in combat. Or three and one item, etc. To get items out of the pack required one turn to drop it (dex penalty gone) and another turn to root around in it. It could be done in combat if needed, but added more tension. We have used the same system for years now.
Hair cut is on point, just like your points on encumbrance!
I got the rules I use from mouse guard. It has a front and back outline of your character. You have to draw everything you wearing, and holding onto that character. If you can’t do it you can’t carry it. It also brings you into the game by being able to look down and see yourself as well as you can draw it. It’s easier to see how absurd carrying a lot of stuff is when you take away the list and give the gear portrait
I remember an old meme with a warrior loaded with tons of things and the words "I think you are abusing my lienency on encumbrance."
It's rather common for GMs to give players a really important item that will be needed later, or for the players to pick up a plethora of circumstantial items that they forget about. Tracking encumbrance forces players to become keenly aware about what they're carrying, and, least in my experience, this helps players actually use that equipment. Excel spreadsheet or something equivalent and you can make it tangible without wasting time fiddling.
We've been running Knave at our table for a while now and I strongly recommend people trying out the inventory system. The hype is real! The players immediately become more immersed trying to figure out how to carry all the loot and weighing the relative value of things they want.
Brings back memories of 2e & "how are we carrying this hoard back to town?" lol good times
When I ran my first 5e game about 5 years ago and announced that I would be using encumbrance rules, the players immediately began to whine about not having Bags of Holding because tracking encumbrance was too hard. A slot system would take the wind out of that bagged argument.
I would hazard a guess that every 5E game that tracks encumbrance ends up with a bag of holding before too long. The temptation to reward your players with cool stuff is too great.
@@arnman2093 Even old school games. I think there were two BoH in Temple of Elemental Evil.
I used slots in my 5e campaign 3 years ago and my players whined all the same.
I think they like their characters to be hardware stores with legs.
I really like the Anti-Hammerspace encumbrance rules. They are basically slot based, but you draw out the items into six, three slot containers.
I had a GM that was a bear on encumbrance. Thank God for bags of holding. Sometimes when I run a campaign, the very first "quest" is researching and finding all the required materials to make a bag of holding for a shop keeper, the reward of course would be a small bag of holding for everyone, (if they performed very well) or just one for the entire party
Another good reason to limit inventory: if players have a hundred items in their pack, they are going to forget about some of them. There will be things that are useful for encounters that they end up not using, and there may even be pot-relevant items that they forget they they have. A number of times I have had to remind players that their PC has already found the thing that an NPC is looking for.
This is my favorite unsolved RPG rule problem, thanks for your contribution! :)
Runequest had (has) something similar. Every character has an ENC score, with a little formula to calculate it - average of STR and CON, but no greater than STR. Then any item that can be easily held in one hand is called a "thing". Two handed weapons mostly count as two "things". Some very large weapons count for 3. Most non-metal armor counts for 1, metal armor 2, but a few exotic armors are more.
Was just about to post the dame thing. RQ is the earliest system I know of that did this
In my system, a nuD&D-derivative off of the SWSE chassis, I've been waffling between traditional encumbrance and item slots and your video has helped me decide to use item slots.
I found this channel a few days ago and it seems you have advice for just about every issue I've had with 5e
I bought Knave and I'm looking a lot more into old school renaissance systems. Thank you so much
I think item slots is an interesting approach. For me personally, I use the "reasonability test". It's pretty straight forward - what is reasonable for your character to carry? Usually it pairs down to 1 suit of armor (no one walks around with 4 sets of armour, sorry!), 2 - 3 weapons (3 if one is a dagger - and this includes quivers, scroll cases, etc.), and then basic delving, exploring, and survivable equipment that can all fit into a large backpack. No weights, slots, tetris-ing, etc. Thing is, across dozens of different folk and people, I've only ever had to enforce the rule once. Individuals know what's reasonable and what's not.
Really enjoying you bringing back to the spotlight the old school D&D.. for me its nothing but 1E/2E.. what I grew up on and won't ever change.
You had me at "you play as a mouse".
Very cute little idea to have the inventory tetris be affected by your conditions.
Pathfinder's "Bulk" system reminds me of I've seen OSR websites talk about the stone system. Here's a run down:
Weight is in Stones, not pounds. A stone is an archaic weigh measurement. Your max load is your strength score in stones. You are heavily encumbered at 2/3 Str or more in stones, and lightly encumbered once you hit 1/3.
Plate mail=4 stones
Medium armor= 2 stones
Light armor and 2-handed weapons= 1 stone
Hand weapons, Ammo bundles, and most adventuring gear= 1/3 stone
Potions, Rations, jewelry, small tools, daggers= 1/10 stone
Loose gemstones, coins= 0 Stones, but a thousand coins equals a stone.
Ha, archaic, I'm 18 stone, I know because they are still used where I am to weigh people.
Very cool. I like the idea of having emcumberance slots, and conditions can fill those as well. Good!
This video was super informative. After watching this I have made a homebrew slot based encumbrance system for fith edition. Basically: the amount of slots are your strength score. And I put all the items from the Players Handbook into an excel document with 1, 1/2, 1/4 or 1/10 slot size (or some take up several slots, like a ladder). Every other item, like magic items I just rule the size/weight on the fly.
I just tackled this problem for a home brew!!! I agree, the resource management in the decision making is fun!!! I did a little study to start, surveying a bunch of games to see what they did. In order of highest to lowest complexity, I labeled them -- Accounting (count everything), Slot-Based, Common Sense (i.e., DM judges), and No Encumbrance. I wound up choosing the slot-based system of Lamentations of the Flame Princess as the model for my equipment/encumbrance/movement rules.
I’m really surprised you didn’t mention Veins Of The Earth’s system for encumbrance where your stat modifiers each have a slot box associated with every modifier point. It’s by far my favorite rpg book ever made. I’m currently home brewing a sci-fi version. I can’t recommend that book enough. Get it while LOTFP is still selling it (or anything for that matter).
It is interesting to see the evolution of slot based encumbrance. Knave 1E had spell books with 1 use/day, Cairn used an additional slot for casting a spell, and then Knave 2E uses wounds like mouseritter used conditions.
The idea to make spells occupy the same slots as encumbrance is GENIOUS. It solves soo many problems:
- slots for carrying is indeed the most fun way to track encumbrance.
- it makes spell components (the stuff you need to cast the spell that occupies the slot) play a role without being more boring bookkeeping
- it naturally limits the number of spells the wizard can take with them, as they'd need the components, making a vancian system actually make sense
- it makes strenght more valuable, AND explains why wizards would have less "mundane" items and armour. Same counts for lightly armoured and armed 'scouting' characters, btw, as they have more trinkets and tools.
It'd even explain better why some divine characters can wear heavier armour, as their source of magic doesn't require components.
Wizardry, an Apple II game and one of the early inspirations for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy had a basic 8-item slot encumbrance rule. Since it was based on early D&D, a lot of the game involves slogging back and forth between whatever floor you were last on and filling up the handful of empty inventory spaces you had left after taking equipment into account. The game also had it where if a party was killed, you could create a new party and if you could make it back to where your bodies were, you could not only get your old equipment back if you had inventory space, but if you had space in your party, you could bring back some of the bodies for a chance at resurrection.
Forbbiden Lands have a really nice encumbrance system with item slots
Mind-blowing stuff!! Thanks again for uploading! Always love your analysis.
This was a great video and I get a strong feeling you run really fun games. We are in a second ed ravenloft game where we just defeated the three hag darklords in Tepest. While a misplaced bomb demolished their house and most of the loot, we ended up with their massive cauldron even our 18/80 fighter couldn't lift. So being a wizard I poly morphed into a bear on top of it and circus rolled that thing to town.
AWESOME! Thx for the chance to win! Looking forward to the newsletter as well!!!
For D&D 5E I can highly recommend "Darker Dungeons" by Giffyglyph. It has simple and fun rules for slot based inventory, survival conditions, stress and lingering injuries and many more modular rules that makes 5E more dark and gritty. I've been using it for a while now and it's impossible to go back to the vanilla rules.
Is that at DMSGUILD?
Just flipped through it, it's awesome, thanks for the recommendation !
I strongly second Darker Dungeons. It contains lots of great, well considered rules for just about all styles of play, and its slot based inventory system is exceptional.
Yeah the newsletter and the giveaway is a win win haha just found your channel through reddit and am a huge fan!
Wow, these are all great ideas. I'm glad I found this channel.
I made simple item cards for my home game. The players or the GM can fill them with the respective stats and info. But they didn't have a well marked spot for weight, so I just went there and modified my template, thanks! Now they'll be able to arrange them on top of one another so that the most relevant info sticks out, and the weight can be easily counted.
I am very happy too encounter this video, gonna share this with my players and hopefully they are willing too give it a try.
Gonna make a Diablo bag system, also geting bag of holding gonna be so much meaningful as well and very rewarding for players!
Many Thanks Questing Beast!
Yes the LotFP encumbrance slot system is the way to go. The Veins of the Earth modification is almost better.
I really like this new approach to videos. Good work. Keep it up!
For a modern take, look into the bulk system in Starfinder.
I've been using a system where items are given a score based on bulk, typically between 0 and 3. Players have a carry weight that is rather low and based on sizes and strength. Think 8 to 12. Works rather well for us. Allows for imposing limits without too much math. A well armed warrior is at 6 weight from plate, shield, and long sword. Throw in rope, tent, and dungeoneering kit and your nearing the limit. An extra piece of chalk or a hammer won't break you, but hoarding weapons might.
Makes the team donkey much more important. :p
B/X "coin weight" is my favorite.
After players add up their armor, weapons and gear they're left with the exact number of coins they can haul.
It also easily converts into 16 one hundred coin slots.
Gear RAW states that all adventuring gear counts as 80cw total. I allow 3 items to fit into this "slot" (usually a waterskin, ration and torch bundle) but any additional items beyond that cost 100cw each.
Simple as.
Just stumbled upon this channel and this series on older D&D rules is really cool.
I like the 5 + Strength bonus number of items before you're encumbered, and+ 5 more before you can't move anymore, or only at a crawl. This would work for Fantasy Flight Games' Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader etc (40k rpgs) as well, so I think I'm gonna institute it in the next adventure. Excellent video, cheers. Your room looks like the book section of a well-stocked hobby shop!
RuneQuest 2 in 1978 or so had a slot based system. ENC was broken down in to a thing (something you could hold in one hand) and you could carry so many things based on CON and STR.
An excellent, historically based rule suggestion I came across (may have been from Bat in th Attic), was using stones. 1 STR = 1 stone (14 lbs.) Heavy items were listed in single stones, so a double axe might be one stone and a longsword half a stone. If I remember correctly, he advised working in units of one stone for heavy items and three items per stone for light stuff. For very light objects, only very large amounts would count as ⅓ stone.
I would say that a more realistic weight would be 1/2 a stone for a greataxe/greatsword, and a 1/4 stone for a longsword. Light armor with a helmet would probably be one stone, medium two, and heavy four. A medium sized shield might be roughly half a stone too, but the largest shields can certainly weigh a full stone.
Mausritter's system is super cool, it and Knave's slot based system has inspired me to create an inventory system that uses a grid based system similar to like Diablo and other computer game rpg's inventories. Some of the items look like how they should look (heavy armor looks like pieces of armor, etc.) and then some stuff is weird polyomino type shapes (tetris-y shapes) such as the magic spell runestones and conditions you can get. It has been super fun in my group's play-testing but we have all enjoyed weird computer rpg inventory management so it may not end up being for everyone haha. It has been super intuitive, simple, but also deep.
How do they keep track between games? Or is it set up each game?
@@jeffreykershner440 currently I built an app because we are in coronavirus mode and playing online. But the first prototype I did it in person and I basically premade lots of cut out shapes made of grid blocks for the items, conditions, and runestones (magic) and then I just handed them to the players and they have to fit them on top of their 10x10 inventory grid and if they can't they can't hold on to them unless its a condition which they have to fit.
Funny you were talking about spells taking up spell slots. Wizard's spell books can get quite Chonky in 2e AD&D. I had one wizard that was encumbered basically just carrying his book around. XD
For 5e i just used the variant encumbrance in my ice wind dale game and my players have been pretty receptive to it. I didn't have to reinvent the inventory system or have them learn a new system, but it did immediately make them think about what they need and what they don't and how they're gonna take care of a sled and beats of burden.
I only just recently discovered this channel. So far I like the content, keep up the good work. I have been in campaigns in the past where everyone back pack acted like a bag of holding and I agree it does take away from the game experience. The slot based tracking is an interesting idea, and one that I have played in before. It makes item choices more important.
Great Video! I love item slots. I use the Anti-Hammerspace system myself but it's essentially the same. I also modify the number of containers available by STR mod instead of just armor.
It was GREAT for Dungeon Crawl Classics.
a great visual example of the slot based system is the video game Diablo. In my campaign (I enforce encumbrance) I have had players dumping food and gear to carry more loot out of a dungeon. Makes for some great tension as they try to get back to town without delay.
Great video! I’m going to try these ideas with my groups.
I really liked the fatigue system. I use a VTT (FGU) which is not very illustration friendly, it can be done with some work. But I do use encumbrance, I believe according to 1st edition D&D it was a measure of weight and bulk. The slot system is a great idea. By making (1lb = 1 slot), you take care of both components of encumbrance.
I ran a Skyrim game the other day due to our regular DM being out and I had to quickly homebrew some sort of capacity system. I ended up using a slot system just like this. It was determined by strength score (everyones was less than 10) and item size. (Food/potion/dagger= 1 slot. Sword/axe/shield/cheesewheel 2 slot, great weapon = 3 slot and armor = 4). I also allowed for any starting equipment to not be counted in, for brevity's sake. Skyrim being extremely combat heavy meant the players were stocking up on food and searching for potions whenever they could. Food was pretty much infinite but because it only healed 1 point (as a bonus action, once per turn) it was less effective than using a potion (1d4). But for the first time it felt like encumbrance was actually manageable and fun, since the players would trade items with each other when hurt or if they found too many potions.
Thoughts at the 6minute mark: (1+[strength mod] and/or [con mod]) times proficiency modifier is the number of equipment slots you can carry.
So that a person slightly below average strength can't carry anything.
@@tom_curtis I mean, 3=-3, 4-5=-2, 6-8=-1, 9-12=+0, 13-15=+1, 16-17=+2, 18=+3 for the modifiers, so not that big of a deal.
I remember reading the loot dragons have and wondering how players would carry that. Even worse if you base it on what you see in the Hobbit movie, for Smaug. Mules and carts would take weeks or months, all the brigands for 100 mile radius would converge on the party.
I can't believe I've never heard of a slot based encumbrance system before. I've got a GURPS fantasy game starting up soon, and that sounds perfect.
I'll point out that with many digital character sheet, calculating weight isn't difficult. It will tell you how much you are carrying and how much to various encumbrance points (light, medium, heavy, or whatever). Even if you print it out, you then know how much to your next point. If you have 14lbs until you are moderately encumbered, fine. You typically aren't adding/removing equipment that much until you find something specifically heavy. Thus, you can mostly ignore it until you have to carry a suit of armor at which point you just assume you are moderately encumbered. If players get new armor or weapons, they can do a recalc when they level up and update their sheets (away from the table).
Most players will typically 'revolt' if you make weight/slots too big of an issue. They'll bring mules or pack dogs, or get a bag of holding, horses, etc.
I have been thinking about using the Five Torches Deep system for my other games also.
Glad to watch this. Encumbrance is one of the less developed parts of my system. By no means the least developed, so far, but not very developed.
This is where tools can facilitate game play. I have an online character sheet that tracks all of this so players can, at a glance, see their encumbrance and movement impacts. In lieu of that, slots is absolutely the way to go. [Edit: Note, we play AD&D and embrace the mud and consequences - I direct everyone to AD&D 1e DMG pg. 225 for the gear preparations of Dimwall and Drudge and the consequences].
Very interesting video, thank you. I fully agree that encumbrance rules are often quite cumbersome in the vast majority of games while they could be fun to play by adding resource management into play. I like the new Alien RPG (Free League) rules. You can carry twice your Strength score in weight. Each object has a Weight of 2, 1, 1/2 or 1/4. Simple, straightforward.
ive always enjoyed them as they add an addtional chalange to the game and makes strength based characters much more relivent
New comment for an old video, but the new Transformers RPG by Renegade Studios uses slot-based item management. The system uses "Hardpoints" which all PCs have start with 4, 2 of which are their hands. Character options and Upgrades can manipulate this amount, but it is a nice clean sensible way to manage players weapons, gear and any support equipment (like bulldozer shovels, helicopter blades and hook & cables) the players characters have.
Blades in the Dark uses a slot based equipment system. At the beginning of a mission, you select if you are foing for a light, medium, or heavy load, and that'll determine how many things they can carry.
Stars without number uses encumbrance instead of weight. It is basically a slot based system. What i liked about it was that encumbrance wasn't tied to item weight, but how easiy it was to pack/carry
I use the following encumberance system (coming from WHFRPG E2):
Categories:
Tiny/Small/Normal/Great
This not only regards size, also about weight.
A great item takes 2 slots, a normal slot takes 1 slot.
Small items take 1 slot but can hold per slot X copies / stacks (potions, food, torches, etc.) most of the times consumables, but also knives, daggers, mugs… if you can stack it, fold it or make a small bunch… its a candidate.
Tiny items are so small, they just ignore the slot system.
Examples: a broche that is added to the outfit, the inevitable Map, a letter, etc.
Based on your Strength/Physical Attributes/Size you get more slots and more X.
Armour uses a different system.
The „always ready“ weapons also get a slot for free (like the inevitable hand-sword), but cannot be more than 3 slots (thinking sword+bow, sword+shield, 2 swords + dagger, great weapon + dagger)…
I tried to write it in an system agnostic way.
Luke Hart from The DM Lair has a system designed for 5e that is very similar to what you're describing. It's just called _Revised Carrying Capacity_
Great video! My take;
You can carry items equal to your strength score.
Tiny items count as half or 1/4 of an item. Large count as two items.
Bag of holding lets you carry extra items for free (Say, 5 items). You can only have one bag.
What happens if you pick up someone else's bag of holding?
@@Jpteryx probably they repel each other like magnets, or maybe explode or something. Each character can only carry one I think. Though there could be grades (Lesser holds two item, greater 5)
The slot idea is great! Castles and Crusades uses something similar. Although, I do think the B/X rules of everything being measured in coins is pretty simple in its own way.
I was thinking the same thing with The Fantasy Trip from Steve Jackson games. I used the idea of "grenade equivalents" from his car wars game as an example that I sent him. Hopefully he will place it the "Hexagram" zine.
VTTs really help with encumbrance and weight tracking in my experience. That said, if I go back to playing in person, without tools, I will be using this/the pathfinder system.
I am loving this series btw, your video on dungeon exploration is one of my favorites.
This is absolutely something I'm adding to my game!
These are neat! I love the content besides reviews that have been on the channel lately.
One interesting thing I find that some people have a taboo against, but I like, is using technology to help. Having a way to have computers manage all the math is a good way to get rid of Encumberance’s biggest weakness!
Definitely using this system.
Torchbearer, while not exactly an OSR game, has developed the simple "x items or fewer" mechanic into an interesting slot-based system. You have different item slots for different parts of your body; for example, you have three torso slots which can be used for armour, backpacks & satchels (for extra inventory) and (IIRC) something arcane casters need to use their magic. So you can wear heavy armour, but that takes up 2 slots so you'll only be able to carry a satchel and will have limited room for other gear. Or if you play an arcane caster, although I don't think there's a rule against casting in armour you still probably don't want to be wearing more than leather as that would mean you'd have no inventory left for important things like scrolls and loot. If you find some fancy gloves, you can save room put them on so they occupy your hand slots instead of taking up slots in your backpack.
A while back, I was thinking about encumbrance and food. In 5e, the system I use, you need 1 lb of food per day, to avoid beginning to starve. It occurred to me that if a PC was overweight - that is, had more body fat than is healthy _for that character_ - the fat on their body should count towards how long the character can go without needing to eat. It's what fat is for, after all.
Conveniently, since food consumed is measured in pounds, 1 lb of fat is the equivalent of 1 lb of food.
I know that some OSR systems track fat as encumbrance, such as it taking up a certain number of item slots. Whether you're using slots, pounds, or coins as weight, though, you could easily track body fat (again, in excess of what is considered "healthy") as both extra encumbrance AND a supply of food that cannot be taken from the PC (well, not "healthily"; someone with a knife could very well take your fat from you). If you run out of provisions, the character will start eating through their girth before starvation sets in.
It would provide a useful risk-reward system for players. Do they try to keep their characters in top condition, so they don't have the extra burden? Or do they allow themselves to put on some pounds, so they always have a certain amount of "food" in reserve?
This sort of setup would also give PCs good cause to spend their earnings on higher quality lifestyles. In 5e, "lifestyle expenses" are a flat measure of one's daily requirements, given a certain quality of living; this includes what food and drink the character can consume. Having a lifestyle that is Comfortable or higher may result in the character putting on pounds of weight during downtime, if they aren't doing significant activity to burn it off. While this encourages the character to be active if they want to avoid becoming fat, it's also an easy way to put pounds on in preparation for adventuring.
Another idea: If the PC has pounds of fat on their body, you could use those to sort of "buy off" Exhaustion that would otherwise result from heavy activity, like force marching. The character burns through their energy reserves quickly, so they don't become as tired. Granted, since fat = encumbrance, being too heavy may result in getting tired more easily due to the burden. It's a balancing act.
5:22
so we could use the item slot system & say that the weight measurement is called "swords", which sounds better than "stones"
I have seen people do really fun stuff with item slots. Falling in water fills them with moist, getting tired fills them with fatigue, magically gaining weird amounts of weight fills them with fat and if you use roll under, whenever you try to stay afloat or hang from a precipice you might have to roll under your empty slots or start sinking/falling forcing a fun and iconic decision: do I drop my droppable gear to increase my chances at staying alive?
I love/hate your channel. Love the reviews especially old school and just unique stuff." Hate " that I have so much to buy. :)
The best kind of hate.
One advantage to tracking encumbrance that didn't come up is that it makes you aware of what you're carrying. So often I have players who completely forget about all the starting equipment your character gets in 5e, like crowbars and hammers.
Rad Hack uses slots based upon your strength score. Super easy to use.
I just want somebody to make a nice inventory system and sell it on dmsguild. Most of the inventories on there are ugly or just not simple enough for most (especially newer) players. The Tetris like inventory sounds incredible, but then you'd have to kind of draw the items into the boxes and not everybody is up for that.
Your content is so good. Thanks!
The best system of encumbrance that i have seen is from the rpg ryuu-tama. You can carry your STR+3 with STR being a d4/d6/d8/d10/d12. All items have a size of 1, 3, or 5. Each point over adds a -X to all rolls, so 3 over = -3. Containers have a size but can hold X size in items which do not count against you carry capacity (ex. Backpack is size 3, but can hold 5 size). Most weapons are size 1 or 3 with armor being 3 or 5 (ex. Bow is 3, leather armor 3). An average person can carry 9 size and i can see yourself thinking that i use that on just my bow, armor, and backpack. Yes, but no. A rule that is found on the character sheet but kinda glanced over in the rule book is that equipped items are size 0. And each character can equip: 2 weapons, 1 armor, 1 shield, and 4 travel items (head, feet, back, and walking staff). However, you may never equip armor and weapons in total size in excess of your carrying capacity. So a human with 9 capacity can equip 9 size over 2 weapons and 1 armor for 0 capacity; May equip a shield, hat, feet, back, and walking staff at 0 capacity; and also carry 9 capacity its other items such as a backpack, bedroll, and rations. Its quick yet detailed enough for a system that is about traveling.
Incidentally, a normal medieval longsword weighed around 2-3 lbs, not 3-5. It's a little weird how people in the RPG space keep on overestimating the weight of a lot of weapons and armor - which, after all, were designed to be used in actual combat where cumbersome equipment would get you killed.
5 Torches Deep uses a similar system to bulk. It sets your limit to your Strength score. Not a big change but it's simpler to remember.
Great video! Always though 5e encumberence is too fiddly to actually use. Five torches deep gets a bit closer to making it usable but the best imo is the black hack where you can just carry a number of times equal to your strength. Also if you're already subbed to the glatisant i assume you're auto entered into the contest?
For fun, in the video game Pathfinder: Kingmaker, they use a really stringent rule for encumbrance. With 8 Strength, my character could not wear even leather armor (in addition to basic clothing and weapons), without being encumbered, which stifles the Dex bonuses, speed, etc. I am not whining : I adapted and respected the hardcore nature of that game. I used only magical bracers and later acquired many items that boosts said Ability Scores (I still just use powerful bracers and robes as I have insanely high Dex).
- nb : BUT, if I am GM/DM, I would use a simplified limit similar to the Bulk system in PF2. i.e. you can carry x bulky items on your back. Also, x small items equates 1 bulk. (i.e. I make a difference between Bulky and 1 Bulk in my logic, so I should use different terms.)
Another benefit of tracking items is that in helps to stop players forgetting they have an item for 5 sessions as they are always looking over them
Currently playing Mad Mage for 5E using Roll20.
The character sheet computes the weight totals for me on the fly, which is pretty nice
So yeh, digital tools kinda change the situation a bit
But I do like Knave and Mausritter's systems for sure!
OD&D and BD&D got it right. 🙂 Weight in coins is the way to go. The real life weight of items are irrelevant because you only really need to know how much treasure you can haul.
At the start of a session you add: armor, weapon, shield + 80 for equipment. Now you have your total encumbrance for the whole session. You know how much treasure you can grab before dropping in speed.
Example :
Sword 60 + Chain armor 400 + shield 100 + equipment 80 = 640.
Encumbrance 640 has a movement speed of 60' per turn
For this session the player knows that he can grab another 160 coins of
treasure before he would drop to a speed of 30'. Max amount
of treasure he can grab is 960 coins. This player only ever needs these two
numbers during play. 160 coins before a drop in speed, maximum 960 coins.
No further calculations necessary during this session. All you ever need. No pounds, no stones, no bulk, no "slots", no small/large items, no managing every single item.
A maximum of 1600 coins of weight is logical. 400 in backpack, 600 in a large sack in right hand, 600 in a large sack in left hand.
That equals 1600 coins. Done! 😁