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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Today I want to add another point to my earlier video titled 'Linux is a mess': • Why I use FreeBSD (Par...
I feel like my previous video didn't do the topic justice and there was a lot more I could have talked about. In this video, I briefly touch on some differences (and similarities) between core utilities (coreutils) on Linux and other POSIX compliant operating systems like the BSD's, Solaris, MacOS and so on.
You can install GNU/Free Software Foundation coreutils in FreeBSD if you want to like this: 'pkg install coreutils' (programs will have a g-prefix).
POSIX compliance is a lot more detailed than this - this is just touching on one of the most obvious standards criteria.
The beauty of a BSD system is when you remove all the 3rd party packages (basically anything in ports), you still have something that boots. And even if it's borked, there's still /rescue (on FreeBSD at least, don't know about the others)
In OpenBSD there's 'boot -s' for single-user mode.
Great Job !
The comparisons between implementation is interesting and means also a lot !
I've installed both Red Hat as well as OpenBSD. Installing Red Hat was as painful as surgery without anesthesia whereas OpenBSD was a complete joy.
For the Linux guys who say "Who cares?" . . . It is the same thing with the GPL. It matters to the people for whom it matters.
I prefer BSD's structure. It matters because it does.
Does it affect my job or performance? No. I just prefer it.
Does the GPL affect anything at the admin or dev level? No. Not really. It just makes them feel better about the licensing.
I started with CP/M and Xenix before DOS. Then -- shudder -- Irix. Only later, years later, did I get a taste of Linux with Yggdrasil Linux. Then Red Hat, Gentoo, Debian, Slackware, Arch, and so on.
I prefer OpenBSD, FreeBSD, then a tie between Fedora Mate and Ubuntu Mate, in that order, for desktops.
Ubuntu Mate has come a long way towards supplanting BSD on my home machines because it takes less thought to get to a good enough state. Fedora, it depends on the release version. Some are more stable/usable than the others.
Is Ubuntu better than the BSDs? No. Yes. Depends on what the goal is. OpenBSD is my number-one pick for a server. The built-in HTTPD server is perfect for most of my needs. The built-in OpenSMTPD, and OpenSSH servers are equally suited to everything I've needed to accomplish with a server. I wouldn't dream of doing the same with Ubuntu or Fedora. The whole mindset behind even their Server Editions just seems too 'frivolous' for lack of a better word. Too many changes without clearly documenting what the change is fixing or affecting, especially two or three dependency levels deep. Then I have to figure-out why updating this or that may or may not have made the Devs' Electon/RoR project start acting funky, or if they messed-up their own code-base with an accidental git transaction just prior to or sometime after the overnight updates.
Would I throw OpenBSD on any random laptop or desktop given to me for use? Well, yeah. I'd try it if I had time to play. But if I had work to get done, I'd grab the Fedora Workstation (Mate Spin) or Ubuntu-Mate thumb drive most likely, and just be done with it. I greatly appreciate the Tiling Window Managers, but I have too many hot-keys/macros/shortcuts in my brain to begin with. Plus, it's easier for when the CTO or CIO comes around and wants to see this or that. Management always wants to see something, especially when they're Windows Zealots.
I'm experimenting with the French Project "Isotop" for OpenBSD. It makes for a nice desktop, though it needs considerable tweaking -- for me -- to get rid of the French localizations and some of the random-seeming software they choose to install that I either don't like or more commonly just don't have a need for. The added bonus is that I have the same httpd server locally as on the actual servers, so testing is quick and effortless. I'm getting too old to "name my servers" anymore. They're cattle, not pets.
Thanks, I agree. It's the same reason why I love suckless tools - the small code base doesn't necessarily affect me at all but I just love the philosophy behind it.
I hadn't heard of Isotop before. Just took a look and it seems that most of the customizations they've done are fairly basic, routine changes to a new install. Seems like more work getting it changed over to English than it would be just installing OpenBSD and setting it up from scratch.
@@iBSDTV Heh heh. The changes they made are fairly basic, mostly it is just theming and install scripts with an ISO roller script . . . But I haven't seen people doing that on OpenBSD before, aside from the other OpenBSD user in another shop, years ago. So, Yeah, it's likely more trouble than it's worth, but I like that someone is trying to give some lovin' to OpenBSD. I kind-of want to do it to pitch-in, and maybe throw a commit their way with some other tweaks to their English, or see if they just want me to fork it to a standalone.
I can't really code beyond some very basic scripting, partly because most of the shops I worked at had their very established, very strict SOPs, and pre-approved scripts for this and that. Partly, also, was hubris, bred by just being able to do most of what I needed by running the commands directly, and lying to myself that if I scripted them, I'd lose the flexibility, and gain the hassle of having to submit code requests up the chain.
Then DevOps exploded out of seemingly nowhere, and that flexibility I thought I had was just a liability. :) Now, I'm twice the age of my last shop's CTO, and I'm playing a lot of catch-up. It feels way harder than it did when I first learned bash forever ago. Lack of neuroplasticity, or just aging grumpiness, or self-defeating . . . dunno. But I'll keep chugging-along.
@@heathriley3692 What do you think about GhostBSD (Mate)?
@@folksurvival I have GhostBSD 21.05.11 on my main laptop, an old Acer. The one I I had Ubuntu Mate on at the time of the initial response two years back. It wasn't working well with suspend or with reliably ejecting USB drives at the time, but it's been working fine since sometime late last year. It's been fine on one of the Atom EEE-Top machines for years, now.
Ubuntu gives me about a half-hour better battery life, maybe 45 minutes if I'm just in vim. There's ways to play around with the power draw, but I haven't bothered. I don't travel, so it's just moving around the house mostly. Easier to just plug it in.
More of a general BSD thing, than GhostBSD itself, though.
Overall, GhostBSD is the easiest way to get a Mate desktop and FreeBSD on a machine. Perfect? No. Solid? Yep.
I've mostly dropped ISOTop. The translations and going through to make tweaks every 6 months for the OpenBSD release was more than I had time or willpower to do. That's mostly because I nuke & pave OpenBSD updates. Just doing the boot.rd method would probably work just fine, and it wouldn't have been an issue. My hardware is mostly old and random bits & bobs. One day, I'll find a good bulk-buy on ebay or something and not have so many one-off systems. Still OS indifferent in general. Still prefer OpenBSD and CWM for my main work and for my local webservers. FreeBSD for general servers and desktops. Linux for gaming/leisure, and specific one-offs like the C720 i3 Corebooted ChromeBook - 8 to 11 hours battery life with Manjaro-Openbox.
Would be nice to have more similar hardware though. :) Fewer build exceptions.
I have used many BSD and LINUX distro... I understand what you are saying but bsd doesn`t have NEAR the programs/apps that linux has.... unforunately at the present time, linux now has more programs than windows... it used to be the other way around. Microsoft Windows has been failing for a while but the more bsd and linux guys fight each other, the more MAC moves in.... I seriously believe the organization of linux needs to merge into linux... it wouldn`t be impossible.
I noticed that there was a lot more comment lines on the GNU, and the OpenBSD has almost no comments.
If all comments were deleted, how many bytes would be in each, or how many lines would be in each.
those developers must be very skilful, disciplined, patient, attentive and creative. my mind boggles how they produce a complete system that keeps getting better and keeps getting it right. the kind of system that could protect a whistleblower or a chinese dissident. i feel genuine admiration for those guys.
Linux и BSD - так или иначе связаны с UNIX,просто Linux - похожа на UNIX,но не основана на ней.
BSD - прямой потомок UNIX,система строится по чёткому плану,есть на что опереться (на UNIX).
Поэтому триада FreeBSD,NetBSD,OpenBSD - такие точные и понятные.
А Linux не имеет чётких целей,да и вообще сделана,цитирую Линуса Торвальдса: just for fun.
Разделяю твое мнение.
I've been using linux for the past 10 years, and i agree with you :) but hey we all use what we are comfortable with, some use linux , some openbsd , some unfortunately use windows etc :)
Here's a point summary of the video: coreutils are independently written for each OS (different code base for utils with the same name and function in other POSIX systems), Linux is a kernel + GNU whereas BSD's are entire operating systems incl. their own kernel, directory structure is cleaner and tidier in the BSD's for this reason.
windows ain't as bad as people always like to portrait it tbh
@@MarieAmeliaFreyaAster Yeah, I study many Operating Systems. :) I've got Windows and OpenBSD on my SSD, with rEFInd. :)
@WHITE POWDER *sis
@WHITE POWDER alternatively sister, female or human life form
i started on slackware and its bsd-like config was a winning feature. but nothing beats the real thing!
*Technical Issues:*
your ultrawide QHD screencasts are beautiful but, they look completely fuzzy at lower resolutions. you might need to check the upload settings on YT.
additionally, please zoom your text a bit more for those of us watching on average gear. a good rule of thumb is a screen height of 30 rows. more than 30 looks small.
Thanks. I'll try to remember to zoom text in future.
@@iBSDTV =D
The newer videos are way better!
A very interesting video, thank you. It is very hard to see how anyone could take offense to what you say, you are very diplomatic.
Do you think that OpenBSD is easier to set up on a laptop (read: Thinkpad) than FreeBSD?
Thanks! Yes, OpenBSD is definitely easier and faster to set up but it has slower performance compared to FreeBSD. There are pros and cons to both.
Worth noting that though most mainstream Linux distributions use ls(1) from GNU coreutils, not all distributions do. For example, some non-mainstream distributions use Busybox for core commands, so they have a smaller ls(1) implementation.
Excellent video!
In general I prefer simplicity and code correctness, but GNU tools are often - though not always - very well optimized at least, in return for the complexity.
Busybox is also worth a look, as you can build a very powerful non-GNU stack with Linux, musl libc, clang, and busybox.
Thanks. Yes a few people here have mentioned busybox. Haven't used it myself though if I went back to Linux, I'd try it for sure.
Just because the GNU code has more lines shouldn't be a reason why its better then the other one. Less lines is not better quality code. You would have to study the actual code on both to compare. Have you studied the 2 to see why there is more lines of code?
less lines and doing the same thing is better
it means less places someone might have made a mistake - side effects, bugs, difficult maintenance that leads to side effects and bugs.. etc
usually people describe this stuff in terms of binary size or speed, but it's more about how the thing will evolve and improve/degrade over its life
@@azngoku666 your logic is flawed my friend. shorter code is not always better in functionality or readability. That is a flawed way to judge quality of code. You still gotta go through the code and compare to see the differences and why one is longer then the other. Bypassing the hard work to thoroughly analyze the code on both sides and simply stating shorter is better is flawed judgement on multiple levels. Any intermediate to advanced programmer will agree with what I just said.
That was a great video! I just want to point out that Richard Stallman and team wrote the GNU system from the ground up to be POSIX compliant just like how OpenBSD has been rewritten as you have pointed out.
"Who cares" fits everywhere 😂😂
Make you way back man. Your were the guy that had people really looking into bsd. You brung stuff many slept on. Maybe it's just me.
I just looked up the man pages for The Linux ls command, and the OpenBSD ls man page.
The Linux version of ls has more than twice as many command options as the OpenBSD ls.
it's not the linux version, it's the GNU version
Great video and all, but mate you know you can go to the bottom of a document with G in vim right?
Intriguing... I might try FreeBSD one day.
I love that there are separate update utilities for the system and packages on FreeBSD. Same with OpenBSD but I don’t use that as a daily driver on my desktops and laptop.
The /usr/local/bin/ thing tripped me up because I broke my shell setting it to /bin/zsh instead of /usr/local/bin/zsh. I just reinstalled after that because I wasn't that far along.
Apparently you're supposed to use #!/usr/bin/env zsh for scripts too for portability
@@scifregizmoguy who the hell said that? it's just a shebang
@@francescovolpini
I'm sorry? I was just mentioning a fact. Not all OS's install certain programs in the same place. NixOS, Alpine Linux, BSD's, etc. Using /usr/bin/env would have solved @nottobay's problem for good.
@@scifregizmoguy it's a comment, it doesn't matter if you say one thing or another, sorry if i sounded unkind
@@francescovolpini
no worries
If you had to choose in between FreeBSD vs OpenBSD, which would you choose? I'm just starting out on FreeBSD and I like it. But I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of each... Maybe you can do a video for newbies like myself.
OpenBSD is great, but I would go with FreeBSD if I were in your shoes. The only reason is due to the massive amount of ports in the ports tree and pkg system. In other words, there's more pre-packaged software available. OpenBSD has pre-package software too. OpenBSD makes a great firewall. It's also great for running simple services such as NTP, and others. The documentation is good on both systems, but I would say that FreeBSD's documentation is easier for beginners. Try them both. It won't cost you anything but time.
Joey Garcia I would say FreeBSD if you’ve never used *NIX. If you’re coming from Linux, OpenBSD will be easily enough to pick up.
is BSD for beginner ? I want to try it for learn programing. Thanks very much
Do it!
You can learn programming on any OS that has a compiler and a text editor. Learning how to troubleshoot Linux or BSD is not programming, it's being a sysadmin at best.
I totally agree. But there's something about using *nix systems that motivates you learn more and code. Whether its porting a piece of software thats not available, or contributing to your favorite project because you believe in them or rely on them, or submitting patches because something breaks or isn't working right.
@@FreeMan-wz3hj Yeah I use ubuntu now but it's really fucked up though, like the music player bugs out and also the calculator. And I don't think I can fix it in the code, I can do basic stuff but no professional experience in coding. So I had to install another one and pray that it works.
I wanted to use OpenSUSE but it's such a pain to get a scanner working, with ubuntu it just works.
not really, but you should explore it anyway if you find it interesting. i find linux is easier to use because more people use it, so there are more answers to questions about it online free
/bin and /usr/bin being separate is still a thing for many Linux distributions also, it's mainly Arch that started putting everything in /bin, and some others decided to start doing the same.
Usually Linux distributions treat /usr/local/bin a little differently though; package managers are expected to install non-core software into /usr/bin, and /usr/local is for things that the user has done on their own without a package manager.
I really enjoyed vid, thx and I look forward to more
I can't imagine switching from Linux to a BSD (ran NetBSD years ago terminal only on a very old system) mostly because I believe I would run into a lot of hardware incompatibility with the hand-me-down hardware that I have access to. Ubuntu based distros just seem to work and recognize my less than ideal hardware. That said, I love your videos. You have a great positive attitude about the BSD's that comes through in the videos. Your videos and system configurations are just beautiful to look at as you demonstrate how you are using the BSD's in your daily workflow. Thank you for providing such high quality on your channel.
Thanks very much. Hardware compatibility is getting better in my opinion. Nowhere near as painful as it used to be.
Interesting, but I guess it kind of makes sense that they don’t all share the exact, same code (even where they could).
Between OpenBSD and FreeBSD, which would you say is closer to the original version of BSD or what it was supposed to be? I’m tinkering around with Linux and other OSes, and BSD is one of the last Unix variants I wanted to try. I just want to make sure I’m experiencing what the developers originally intended with it-as much as possible, anyway.
Thanks!
Steve
Openbsd has the cleanest codebase
On GNU / Linux systems you can change the place where the program is installed, some programs are installed in the / opt folder, it is also possible to define the location of the installation in the user directory.
Actually you can do that on every other Unix-like/based systems too, as you just need to change change $PATH in your shell rc file so the shell could find your newly installed program(s).
Now, imagine if you tasked a committee with cleaning up your room. Then imagine tasking 400 people hired off the street to clean up your room....or just putting up a sign that says "follow the honor system and keep this room clean and properly organized"
Your first argument about all programs being in /bin is not exactly fair. I've looked at three distros and out of those only one had all the programs in one file, fedora. The the other two I looked at being ubuntu and gentoo. Thus my point being that all the programs being in one folder is distribution specific and not a "Linux" thing.
What is the theme you are using to have that overall transparency anf orangy widows? Looks neat!
Have you heard of or used Haiku? It's a modern BeOS recreation. The 32 bit version is even binary compatible. It's way less customizable but it's a neat little OS regardless.
Yep I know of it. Definitely still has that retro/90's feel to it. Might play around with it one day.
@@iBSDTV I would recommend it. It's been very active recently, especially with Google's Summer of Code. They have webkit browsers and LibreOffice running. No LaTeX yet, afaik. I've just stumbled on your channel and I've finally found someone with similar OS interests as me who also uses LaTeX. Nice job.
Thanks!
@@icantleavespaces The TH-cam channel 'The Real Geek' has some videos about Haiku.
I don't really like distro/OS hopping, but I want to give freeBSD a try.
Do it. :)
@Jon @GeekiTek Did you?
Correction it is not GNU/Linux anymore, now it is called SystemD-GNU-Linux. Meaning now it has even more layers of useless redundant crap making it a bloated mess.
Great video with good examples!
You should drink some water next time though.
Informative, thank you. I did not know the "ls" command is not the same universal program even between different BSDs. I was not surprised to see that OpenBSD has the most streamlined code because OpenBSD adheres to the Unix philosophy of "do one thing and do it well". Theo de Raadt is obsessive-compulsive concerning clean code (which is a good thing). I have been using OpenBSD since version 4.3 Next time I put a shrimp on the barbie, I'll give a silent salute to you.
Thanks for the video!
ls(1) is good example how codebase is different for diff OSs'.
I forgot that OpenBSD version can't do color, thanks for reminder.
Interesting thing about color: FreeBSD 12 ls(1) included '--color=when' for compatibility with GNU coreutils.
pls check v12 man ls:
www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=ls&manpath=FreeBSD+12.0-stable
vs v11 man ls:
www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=ls&manpath=FreeBSD+11.0-RELEASE
I guess this is the fundamental difference between centralized and decentralized development models. Centralized ones can impose more order, but the downside of this is greater rigidity and less adaptability to changing circumstances. Linux is more flexible and more messy. Which is perhaps why it is more successful.
I don't disagree with you there. Pros and cons for sure.
subscribed love your videos and BSD i really do like the file structure and all much better than it is on linux imo :)
OpenBSD's ls doesn't have colored output? There's a "port" of GNU ls, but then you have a big program that lists files on your computer.
Are there ports of FreeBSD's ls?
Anyone interested in trying out BSD that are coming from Linux, Windows or Mac OS, i say try TrueOS in a VM and learn it and you will see how BSD has the upper hand over alot of other platforms aka OS.
They still haven't repaired FreeBSD ee driver and it still gets fatal firmwere error or something even worse on my hp dv6500.
I watch the last video lead to this as you brought up a reason that tweaked my ears, as that is one part of Linux the does my head in, it is a mess.
The file system is highly dependent on what system you use and in many the distros coreutils are seperated from 3rd party software. this is more uncommon due to your stated reasons and often coreutils aren't separated from third party applications on linux 'cause there isn't as much of a clear cut. On linux It's very common to mix and match different coreutils like the busybox core utils, toybox coreutils, heirloom toolbox, uutils whereas on the bsds it's more common to keep that os' coreutils. It's also important to note not all desktop linux distros are GNU/Linux it is perfectly possible to have a useable desktop without or with minimal GNU stuff. It's also important to note that GNU is far from POSIX compliant and chooses to differ from the spec in many ways often with their own extensions that get adopted by everyone with a similar action to microsoft's embrace extend extinguish for example bison isn't compatible with yacc and other implementations of yacc such as byacc have had to implement bison features to be fairly compatible with GNU yacc.
no, it's nothing like microsoft's EEE, because EEE is only possible with proprietary software
@@shallex5744 GNU Embraces yacc and implements bison. GNU Extends yacc in bison with a bunch of extensions. A few key projects start using these extensions Extinguishing competing yacc implementations that haven't implemented them. Though I do agree that it is no where near as extreme as microsoft's EEE
@@estanforth6754 the whole point of EEE is that the competitors are disallowed from implementing the extensions, due to their proprietary nature. what you're describing is just free and fair competition, isn't it? what's wrong with a competitor winning out over another competitor? isn't that just the free market or whatever?
@iBSD Maybe you can answer my question, are suckless tools on openbsd's ports the same as the suckless repo (git.suckless)? I couldn't compile my st/dwm from linux because of dependencies, ports are fine but I lose my patches. Thanks
No. The OpenBSD suckless versions are 'release'/official versions, not git. The Git versions work fine on OpenBSD though - I clone and compile them without a problem. What issue are you having specifically?
@@iBSDTV I got it, I overlooked openbsd in config.mk and freetype libraries could not be found. Thanks for response tho. Coming to the next problem bsd.mp doesn't boot, bsd.sp does :(
"Linux distributions are all POSIX compliant".
And them came the Poettering, and he looked and said, "POSIX schmosix", and took out his axe and began to set about chopping poor POSIX to pieces.
EDIT
I'm 80% switched to BSD, after 18 years of Linux use.
I'm enjoying using the pc again, instead of mindlessly distrohopping in order to feign and/or maintain interest.
Definitely felt like I was no longer in control of my computer.
But then I discovered BSD.
FreeBSD, everything built from ports.
A revelation.
To be fair, there are Linux distros that don't use systemd, like Devuan, Artix, Gentoo, Void, AntiX etc.
I haven't looked at the code yet, but my guess is the GNU version has a lot of #ifdef-s in order to compile practically on anything. Yes it adds to the code, but it makes it more portable too.
In order to make it fair strip the binaries and then compare.
Two famous products from Berkley are LSD and UNIX and this is one of them.
Afaik, and I might be wrong, you can run linux without any GNU tools and there take away the GNU/ part.
There are other tools and compilers and such that are not made by GNU.
Sure. I think Android would be an example of this.
Adding to iBSD, Alpine is a popular distribution (especially as a base for Docker containers) that doesn't use GNU tools by default and Void Linux is a popular one that doesn't use the GNU C library.
iBSD Indeed. But as Sijmen mentions it can be on PC as well. And Android is still linux *blegh*
@@SijmenMulder Right. I know Alpine uses musl. I don't know much about Void though. But the point is still the same regardless - Linux is just a kernel, and whether it's GNU or something else, it's combined with an OS/tools. *BSD is an all-in-one alternative.
@@iBSDTV Well, BusyBox would also be example this, a BSD licensed set of utilities for Linux, that uses ash as the default shell, and doesn't clutter up the /bin directory. My home wireless router runs OpenWRT which uses BusyBox as its core utilities. Some distributions like Void have also tried to break from GNU, by using musl as the standard C library. The MirBSD project, also wrote a set of utilities for Linux.
From a linux guys perspective I actually don't really care about this in a time where we have 8 core CPUs. I like the color.
Having about no experience with other than linux (yes not even much in windows): What can I expect in BSD? Can I get myself KDE? I have not found a Ubuntu like installer, but I would like to have one for the purpose of getting my feet wet a bit at first. Everything working and preconfigured, able to tinker a bit with it. Is there an option for me?
Yes, you can easily install KDE. As for an "Ubuntu-like installer", no. Maybe TrueOS? Or buy a Mac?
@@iBSDTV Mac is not an option. Well, anyways, if I can get my head around arch, I am going to get a BSD to run, I hope...
Both FreeBSD and OpenBSD are leaps and bounds faster and simpler to install than Arch Linux is. Less headaches too doing upgrades (Arch Linux is about as stable as an ex-girlfriend).
@@iBSDTV Would like to disagree on this point (you might have outdated knowledge here), my current Arch install has around 5 years on it, and all I've done is typing pacman -Syu twice a week. So really stability is not an issue.
@@iBSDTV "by a Mac" BSD in a nutshell.
Hey, as long as you're using a FOSS OS, who cares? We all love out Open Source goodness. You use what you want to use. I love GNU/Linux and BSD.
I do have to hand it to BSD though (minus FreeBSD), because Apple, Microsoft and the proprietary companies on the Linux Foundation don't have their dirty hands in things.
I'd be careful with the word POSIX compliant.. afaik not all mentioned systems are actually POSIX compliant but they try to aim though.
I won't switch from Linux, ever. But this got me interested in trying one of the BSDes. Which one of them would you suggest that I try?
Never say never ;)
Also you could probably start with FreeBSD since it's the most compatible and even has a Linux compatibility layer
@@stefanalecu9532 Nice, is it good to run on a server or should I look for another BSD. I guess I could run it on my homelab but my main machines will continue to run Linux simply because the BSDes have an even worse compatibility with newer hardware than Linux
Which program do you use to print ASCII art in the terminal? Neofetch? Archey3?
Richard Stallman wants you to call it the GNU/Linux because, because!
Because it's technically correct in most cases.
Do you use pywal/wal there?
This is a great video.
Did he make another channel
How did you make those title bars in DWM?
I love all kind of informatics. I want to read about networking, and develop my own network software. Or to build Unix OSes. Would be nice.
If there was a way to make linux hardware drivers compatible with the bsd kernel, i'd use openbsd all day long, I just really like new hardware :(
I found that 'ls -g' as well as 'ls -G' work differently on different Linux distributions.
its taking forever for dragonflybsd to get their act together of functioning os that replace both linux and bsd
How would BSD replace itself?
Agreed, linux is a mess. They have incurable Windoze envy. I like the idea though of having /bin for all core OS user commands and /sbin for root-permission stuff. No more /usr/bin and /usr/sbin. Seems silly in this day and age to put / and /usr on different partitions...and then have a /rescue directory for statically linked binaries along with that. Just don't pollute a base install of your OS with stuff that FreeBSD relegates to /usr/local/ (which ought to include linux compatibility stuff IMHO).
Most Linux distros don't have /rescue. Most statically linked binaries exist in /sbin or /usr/sbin. I do however agree with third party binaries being installed to /usr/local/bin, or /usr/pkg/bin on NetBSD. Gentoo has made a lot of headway in this regard, with /usr/portage containing third party binaries, and the packages themselves. You can see how this works here: wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//usr/portage.
what window manager are you running here?
also obligatory RMS copy pasta:
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
AwesomeWM.
Did you not watch the video? I literally made this exact point re: GNU/Linux repeatedly throughout the video.
@@iBSDTV Yes I did that's why I posted the copy pasta, it's a bit of a meme.
AwesomeWM looks really good I'm currently usind dwm which it's forked from.
I've actually been wanting to try and use a BSD or plan9 userland on linux since I prefer more minimal system tools.
I'm currenlty running void musl as my main system with tcc as my compiler, I've been thinking of switching to OpenBSD since I run it on a few servers but I'm not as enthusiatic about it's filesystem support.
Honestly,i had more amusement with BSD than all generous linux distros.
Please make a video about the recent CentOS debacle.
No one is by definition secure if they're living with IME/ AMD engine. No matter which OS they use.
Shaswata Das IME does not affect every intel CPU
@@user-oo2gz9ln8v which get released after 2008
security != priacy
Your video tells nothing about being tidy, but about differences between some Linux distro as “this is Linux”, compared to the official Free/Open BSD releases. BSDs also have their distros, and they also have big messy bloody problems. Let’s talk about software management on FreeBSD if you like to crash with a poor management of dependencies. Yes, I know: there are just a few on the base system and most of them should be ports... third party software being messy and buggy. But c’m on... you all complain about “Linux” because of third party software. If you want to have a tidy Linux system you still can, since Linux is nothing but the kernel. It will not be as complicated as properly installing OpenBSD. And it will not be as unsafe as you may think. Try disabling everything as in Theo’s default install. After all, most of BSD users end up installing GNU tools because some of the ports will need to use them, starting with GNU make. I’m a happy iOS, Linux, Windows and FreeBSD user. Just face it, they are just different operating systems. Each of them have pros and cons whether in being installed or being used. Do you all really want to complain about Linux? Complain about it’s bloody GNU GPLd code. And go on... I was in truly awful systems like AIX. Now, let the flame wars begin.
I never mentioned distros. What video were you watching? This is specifically about GNU coreutils vs BSD coreutils. As to your other points:
* FreeBSD and OpenBSD package management and stability are second-to-none and almost never cause a "crash". You must be confusing them with Arch Linux.
* OpenBSD installation is far less complicated than most Linux distros.
* If people install GNU coreutils on BSD in order to install 3rd party ports, so what? That says nothing about BSD whatsoever. It's a dependency of a ported application.
* Who's complaining here? The only people complaining are you guys and your comments.
Wasn't there a bunch of shit with BSD because of bad team members putting immature shit on twitter?
I can't remember, it was either OpenBSD or FreeBSD.
First I've heard of it. "Immature shit" pretty much sums up the entirety of Twitter anyway.
@@iBSDTV True lol.
What is the better BSD? FreeBSD or OpenBSD? I come from the arch linux world
@@Griimnak Depends on your hardware and what you do. For any ThinkPad laptop, OpenBSD 100%. If you have nvidia graphics, FreeBSD is your only option. For any kind of media stuff (recording, video editing, etc.), I'd say FreeBSD as the performance is better. For security and minimalism, OpenBSD.
@@iBSDTV good to know, I have a gtx 750ti so freebsd it is
very small number of subscribers!
Is that a good or bad thing?
iBSD
Rather negative for those wishing to receive proper information on a topic that is visibly underrepresented on TH-cam and to gather around in a community, distributing its force accordingly!
Still a fairly new channel and a topic nowhere near as popular as Linux. Give it time.
Your system is hella stylish!
why does your desktop look so sexy!
I use exa btw
macos keeps system cli executables in /bin and third party ones in /usr/local/bin but ig you can always just add a random folder to your path
I was totally willing to hear you out until you started misinforming your audience about Linux as a whole.
Linux is the kernel and is the core of any computer beyond the BIOS. It is therefore more of an OS than anything else.
GNU is simply a group of utilities and programs that Linux users tend to utilise in order to simplify tasks. There are plenty of alternatives out there and GNU is not a requirement of a Linux system.
I came to this video out of curiousity about BSD over Linux. Not to hear ill informed comments on how Linux is.
Davide Lombardo the definition of an operating system is a set of routines and functions to connect all the hardware and make it accessible to the user. That’s what the Kernel is. Everything on top are utilities, GUI environments with GUI programs running through the Kernel’s shell routine
GNU has things that are not the coreutils.
things like ls, sed, ed are easily replaceable.
theres tons and tons of other code in a GNU/Linux system that is not kernel code.
@iBSD Do you hang out on IRC or discord? I got an interesting problem installing FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE on my old workstation and I'd love to hear your advise. Right now I'm on Debian 9.6 to get at least some work done but I'm missing a lot.
I haven't had a whole lot of time for things like IRC but that should change soon. What problem are you having?
@@iBSDTV sorry about the quality but this is what happens when I try to boot the FreeBSD 11.2 and 12.0 install image watch?v=HLcZraS70HE
@@Inkrementalgeber Have you tried hw.vga.textmode=1?
@@Inkrementalgeber At boot time, go Boot Options and type: set hw.vga.textmode=1
@@iBSDTV I will give it a try and let you know how it went, thanks. I can report on monday =)
Why is your bedroom tidy or dirty?
BSD and GNU/Linux is not the actual problem. The actual problem is developers racing among them, implementing the same shit twice. We wanted a good and reliable OS. If the BSD and GNU/Linux peoples were working on a single OS project, we may have already achieved what we're trying to get.
I think this ideaa is old, going back twenty years. We are not talking about Mac OSX or Ubuntu when we speak of linux or BSD... they are the OS's upon which presently a choice of great DE's and WM's are built. Indeed those things should be customisable for the need of the user. Nowadays there are many great distributions of linux with great front ends, if you don't want to configure you're own.
It makes a whole lot of difference when you actually care about security. Having /bin/usr/ software on a separate partition means it's highly unlikely to be able to priv escalate out of it's environment. The same can be said about having the core utilities of the OS /bin/ on a separate partition it is much more mitigated against attackers. This is basic OS hardening that will defeat most advanced adversaries because even the garbage tools the CIA/NSA put out from what i've seen so far can't do jack shit against it. So even if you were to run less secure FreeBSD they wouldn't be able to take control of your system other then perhaps infecting a partition or a specific file only and their capabilities of their programs would be drastically reduced.
how can one person fit so many incorrect statements in a single comment
it seems that you actually do not know what it is that you are talking about.
startx
i have watch 3 videos of BSD, and i learn that theBSD community is toxic, i wouldn't want to get in something where the cummunity treats other like shit, ima stick to my linux people.
we get it OpenBSD is superior to other OS. OPENBSD NATIONALISM
I love how in open source you get some of the worlds best engineers fixing the same problem, repeatedly, in remarkably similar ways and yet none of them are bright enough to just combine all the work into a centralised codebase to share the effort cause of course, mine is better than yours. It's pretty much the core reason why "year of the desktop" never really happened for any of the unixes and MacOS stole all the market share they could ever hope to obtain and nobody gave two shits about desktop or bothered to actually cohesively work on it. Also, that the distro guys are still fighting over package managers 20 years later even though it's just a fancy zip file with some scripts in every single case and can't even get their shit together for long enough to replace xorg with anything better, so many distros have their own window server. Fucking awesome!
Subbed
Ill see what happens after Torvalds dies.. Lets see if Linux becomes the *gnu* windows
pfft they are all based on net ie linux unix like
TellBSD.,Inc
fun fact: windows is posix-compliant too
Yeah, .NET atleast if not cmd.
no,it was halfheartedly compliant years ago,not compliant at all anymore.
I don't know about zOS. (It's been a while.) But I remember when IBM made OS/MVS POSIX compliant. The very thought of the key IBM mainframe operating system doing this was bizzare, and sort of a "Ha! Gotcha!" act by Big Blue.
an OS is a tool for me, not more ;) I really dont care how system manage directories etc... it boots, its speed, well, lets works with my tools now.
pointer x11r6
Even Linux is too popular to not to trash talk it huh?
Who's trash talking it?
OpenBSD is a mess and bloated as well. If you want real tidy, real tiny coreutils, then you'd use busybox.
OpenBSD is the furthest thing from a mess and bloated.
Nice try, troll.
Almost...
Almost what?
@@iBSDTV GNU/Linux /= Linux. Just like Gentoo Linux and Red Hat Linux /= Linux. As you correctly stated, Linux is the kernel. If the Linux kernel ceased to exist, Gentoo and Red Hat would not suddenly become GNU/Gentoo or GNU/Red Hat. That is what I meant by saying "almost." Keep up the videos, mate. I just circled back around to OpenBSD after at least ten years and love that you have a BSD channel.
@@danbuffington75 Thanks a lot, mate.
G
x=11 r=6 end proof xxx
linux is bloated
we need suckless linux
If you wonder which one is the best, they are all shit :ok_hand: Coders from 1970 only knowing C code.