Produce guy: "Hes kind of a niche author his name is Brandon Sanderson" Ah yes I like to read his work while listening to the underground indie rock band Nirvana
Well, his books are a bit long :-D probably not something the majority of people even into fantasy would randomly pick up in a bookstore, so kinda nice
He really isn't that well known outside of fantasy book community. He isn't one of the big ones like Steven King or J.K. Rowling or George R.R. Martin. He may seem as big as Nirvana but he isn't. (yet)
I've only heard of Brandon Sanderson through this channel and possibily one other booktuber, and fantasy would be a top genre of mine to read. However, massive music nerd, so def know about Nirvana
We need to normalize saying “that’s not for me” instead of saying everything we dislike is trash. We can dislike things and let people like the things they like.
Agreed! Watching this channel has helped me big time in understanding some things I love are not for other people, but I can still love it, and so the opposite has to be true. It really has made a positive difference in talking about and thinking about books; I no longer think of something I don’t like as “bad” but instead think “well, this is meant for someone else in the world.” Even if I have negative opinions on the writing and execution of a story and not necessarily the story itself, I understand much better now that that’s exactly what they are: opinions.
@@platyperri I feel like that with Harry Potter, When it came out I was at that age where you think you can't read kids books, so i never read it which is weird because its definitely my genre. and I feel this happens to the Chronicles of Narnia. I grew up with Narnia and have a strong fondness for it. but i can understand why you may not enjoy it if you read it as an adult.
Or people can learn to accept themselves and not give a shit about other people's opinions. Chuck Tingle is a best selling author, some people do enjoy actual trash.
@@brenna_marie Yeah yeah I was going for that allte... alliteration.. thing *Whispers in the ear*: It already looked awkward with 3 of the same words so I forced one extra to make it look intentional ;)
@@Merlijn1994 - well, to be fair, up to now if I wanted to be corned by a book nerd, I would have hung out in bookstores. I had no idea they are found primarily in grocery stores.
Another form of Gatekeeping I've discovered within reading communities: "I've read 4627362746 books, You? Oh, only 30 books this year?" *judgmental glare* Seriously? As a 38yo that only starting "getting into" reading / collecting pretty books 📖 a couple of years ago... any goal that's higher than 0⃣-books I think is an achievement. In 2021 I'm aiming for 24+ (basically 2 books a month) and they're usually BRICKS because I tend to like the epic/High Fantasy stuff. Why is reading 24 bricks better/worse than reading 100 novellas? 🤷🏻♂️ Shouldn't it be about how much we ENJOYED whatever it is we've chosen to read, than the sheer NUMBER of books?
People read at different speeds and have different schedules, too. For many people, finishing *one* book is an achievement - never mind however many more on top of that! Just adding on my own two cents. 😁
I read frustratingly slowly. I'm going to be lucky to crack the 10 books per year mark at this point. Still reading Leviathan Wakes and Gardens Of The Moon and I started them LAST YEAR! (almost finished Leviathan Wakes though). My reading speed is around 40 pages per hour and I'm lucky if I manage more than 3 hours reading per week. I spent a significant amount of 2020 reading The Way Of Kings... I think it took Brandon Sanderson less time to write the damn thing.
The point about novellas versus novels is so interesting. Because I always feel bad for adding novellas or shorter stories to my book count because it feels like “cheating”, but what even is a novel?? How long does it HAVE to be?? The whole “books per year” pressure is real and it always stresses me out
@@gracepowers3188 - yeah I totally get what you mean. I like to throw in shorter "novella"-sized books to break up the long epic reads that I usually go with. It freshens things up, almost like a palate cleanser before diving into Big Books again 😂 ✌🏻
@@gracepowers3188 Some of my favourite books of all time are short novels and novellas. Fahrenheit 451 and Ender's Game are both under 350 pages, and I love Stephen Kings novellas. But I agree its not equivalent to reading The Stand or a Stormlight Archives book. Maybe counting books is just a terrible metric regardless.
"If you haven't read / If you didn't love LOTR, you're not a real fantasy fan" is the one I tend to see most. I just wish everyone could get along with everyone else's opinions.
When I was new to reading fantasy, I met someone whose favorite series was LotR, and I was nervous to tell him that it didn’t sound like something I’d enjoy because I thought he would scoff at me and walk away, but when I said I had no desire to read it, he said, “no worries, it’s my favorite but I know it’s not for everyone. You can like fantasy without liking LotR,” and I was so relieved that friendship can still bloom in the midst of differences of opinions, lol. But what does it say that I was expecting a mean response from him?? I think gatekeeping is so common that I was prepared for it to happen, but him being nice was a pleasant surprise when it actually should be the norm.
One of the saddest things I see with this topic is people having to apologize for liking something. I see this with SJM a lot.... People think they have to because of the judgement that comes with it. I love SJM and I refuse to apologize for it.
I don't think you have to apologize for liking something, but I think one can acknowledge something as a guilty pleasure. It's okay to say, "Look, I know these novels aren't very good, but I enjoy reading them anyway." I think one reason people feel compelled to apologize for what they read is because they (or whom they are talking to) conflate what they like with what is "good" in some objective sense.
So. I don't read SJM. I tried her once, but it wasn't for me. I can still acknowledge that she is doing something right, because she is selling tons of books and many people love her stories. People read for fun. If you like the books, why should you have to justify that on front of others who think of themselves as superior, because they read "smart" books or whatever. I'll never get that.
Readers can be pretty snobbish. They look down on people who don’t like to read, people who read less than them, people who listen to audiobooks and people who read different genres/authors. Most of them are nice, but it can be a pretty gatekeeping community in a way.
I'll admit that I can be snobbish to non-readers. To me, it's like 'how can you miss out on such a great hobby?' A brother of my ex actually said "You have too many books" with his first visit to our new apartment. I was like - WTF? Then I said, in a very snobbish tone "One can never have enough books!"
As a bookseller, I second that. The number of people who have made the most... Bewilderingly snobby comments about their family members who don't like to read is astonishing to me. I get finding it odd if you love it so much yourself, but the *attitude* that comes with it is disgusting.
I often catch myself thinking stuff like "ugh, ofc they are a romance reader" or "ofc they only read self help books" and then I pause and have to hold _myself_ a lecture about how everyone should read what they like so, a lot of internalised "gatekeeping" I think
I appreciate the honesty. everyone struggles with looking down on others. its a normal reaction. it's frustrating to see so many comments from people talking like they would never look down on someone else.
It’s really cool of you to keep yourself accountable like that. I try to do the same thing. It’s easy to point out what’s right and how we should act or think in theory, but much harder to actually hold oneself to that standard, or even more so, change behavior.
One of my "favorite" types of elitism is when you say you didn't like something and the first reply is basicly "oh, you just didn't GET it. If you were as smart as me you would have understood it better and then you surley would have liked it as much as I do. Let me explain the obvious symbolism that you clearly missed." And you're there lisening going "no no, I absolutley understood all that. Still didn't like it though."
This is some Malazan fans. Lord knows if you say "it didn't click for me" the fans will come at you about it for not getting it because the characters are telegraphed on paper, but rather on emotion description.
My English teacher did this once when I said I didn’t like “The crucible”. Jokes on her, I’ve read it since and actually like it less than before because of how it treats female characters.
I see that with music a lot, like "oh, you probably didn't understand the lyrics. they're so deep and profound, you couldn't possibly dislike this song otherwise" - no, I just don't like the sound / the genre of this song
I had these exact fears about American Gods and the entire First Law trilogy, Bc I didn’t really like either that much and I feel like people will always say I didn’t understand the grittiness or the poignancy of some hidden message. And like no, I got it, just didn’t care. Or the rest of the book was so meh that it didn’t matter.
THIS! I read pride and prejudice and hated every second of it. Read the goodreads reviews and everytime someone wrote that it wasn't for them, they would literally be put down as 'too dumb to understand'. Like nah I understood the book, it isn't that hard to understand pride and prejudice... I still hated it.
I noticed a lot of internalised gatekeeping behaviour within myself, don't know why, but I always make very sure to not let it determine my actions, because it's just not nice and very disrespectful
Good on you! I can relate, I noticed it in myself too (only in some very specific contexts tho, not with books specifically). I was genuinly taken aback when I realized because I'd always considered myself quite open-minded. I'm taking extra care to not do it now.
it's so wierd cause I don't do it to other people, but I do it a lot with myself? like, I'm very often mad at myself cause I'm not reading "serious and important books", like wtf. I wouldn't say that about anyone's reading, but I do it to myself time and time again
I get that. I used to be a gatekeeper in the more classic sense. “You aren’t a REAL Percy Jackson fan if you’ve only seen the movies”, things like that. I’m over that now, like what you like. I do think you need to clarify that though so I know what we’re talking because the characters and scenes are VERY different than they are in the books.
Yeah, same here. I read a lot of romance and there's so much judgement when it comes to that genre that I used to hesitate to tell people I read it. These days, whenever someone asks me what kind of books I read, romance and fantasy are my first answers.
When I think about gatekeeping I always wonder what uncle iroh would say: "Zuko, don't be angry because people are showing interest in what you've always liked, rather than thinking they are here to poison a community, see that now there's more people to share and talk about the joy of loving something together. You don't need to be an expert to find the beauty in art."
One of the benefits of not engaging in online communities is avoiding stuff like this. I'll read a classic from the 1600's and afterwards I'll pick up some Glee fanfiction, and nobody cares.
The idea that Sanderson is niche when literally everyone reads or recommends it for everyone, even people who don’t read adult fantasy, makes me laugh 😂
Outside of my specific fantasy/DnD friend group, none of my friends would know Brandon Sanderson, and most of them are avid readers. I wouldn’t describe him as a niche author, but he probably won’t be a household name across the board until/unless one of his books is turned into a blockbuster. Just my prediction though.
@@KHBogWitch in my experience in the book community, he’s literally always talked about, especially on Reddit and booktube. My friends who aren’t big readers at all know him. His books are in Target. All that to say, I think he’s not a niche author, even if epic fantasy is more of a niche genre. He’s the poster boy for adult fantasy.
@@phix27 To be fair, not all readers participate in book communities. I think the guy calling Sanderson a “niche author” was probably just a way of sidestepping mention of adult fantasy, because I agree, I wouldn’t describe him as niche either.
"hobby police" lol. my 15yo self needed this video so badly. i was such an awful fan back then. all the time i was like "that's not a real book" "that's not actual music". thanks Merphy
Some of the gatekeeping especially in "nerd culture" stems from years of being marginalized and ridiculed by their peers. Now that reading manga or playing games is somewhat accept by society some try to use this to look down on people that did the same to them many years back. In my opinion this is not the way to go as we have the unique opportunity to openly share our interests with others now and instead of gatekeeping we should invite them and share our joy!
It feels like someone has appropriated our culture by mainstreaming comics, SF, etc. A harmful emotional response from a former persecuted minority group.
@@AustinBeeman Oh give me a break 🙄. Being a Nerd doesn't make you a Persecuted Minority Group and comparing the two is insulting to anyone who was actually enslaved or sent to a concentration camp.
I'm wondering if the produce guy has ever watched your videos and went that's the lady that cornered me in the grocery store, and is now kicking himself for the fake name. 🤣
I had a coworker look at the book I was reading once and go "Oh you're reading fiction! It's so cute how you like fiction!" and brag that he only read nonfiction. Like....do you want a prize?
I went through a time in my life when I believed that only classics and serious non-fiction were acceptable reading. Then I went through a rough period and picked up a "trashy" YA series. It was *so* good. I wrestled with guilt over loving the series for a while. Me, a grown woman liking the book equivalent of junk food?? What that even OKAY?? But I made peace with it eventually and started reading more YA, more romance, more fantasy. And let me tell you: the number of books I read per year has more than tripled since then. I still read classics. I still read serious non-fiction. But let me tell you, my life is so much better because I decided it was okay for me to read other genres. I'm so happy I got over my snobby, gatekeeping self.
I liked it but didn't love it and DNFd red seas under red skies, but between Merphy and Daniel constantly hyping the series I feel like I should give it a second chance
@@Merlijn1994 oh I get it. I absolutely love book 1, but I hate reading about boats. So book 2 was a little hard for me. I do think it was worth it for me though. I guess it depends on the why you DNFed it.
@@MrShaiya96 uhhhh I definitely wouldn’t consider oda to be milking one piece if anything he’s speeding things up and cutting a few corners nowadays. Can’t really defend George or Miura however.
@@MrShaiya96 I also immediately thought of Rothfuss and Martin... our children´s children will die of old age before the last book in the series is out... or at least that´s how it feels 😂
Elitism makes me sad. I believe I'm internally guilty of it myself, sometimes. It's probably because we're so attached to the things we love we feel very protective of them. Those stories become a part of us and it hurts to have them insulted. It's an attack on our person, a deep one, because it encompasses our belief system, something at the core of our being,. Our likes go very deep, indeed. Elitism/gatekeeping is a perfect occasion to show in an "objective" way that our opinions are valid, that there is a tangible proof of their superiority. Too bad opinions are just that - opinions. They're subjective. There'll always be someone who says "Oh, I see you have *tAsTe"* AKA "I'm willing to accept you because you have enough sense to like the same thing as I do."
That's so funny about cornering a guy in the shop to talk books, cause been there done that - I also happen to do it on a regular basis to my family, I get so excited and I can tell that everyone is soo fed up of hearing about whatever book I'm talking about but I can't seem to help myself
my dad thinks all animation is for kids. doesn't matter how much blood, gore, or swearing there is. he would probably label hentai as "for kids" if he ever saw it lol.
Me and my best friend were literally talking about this the other day. I am a huge fantasy nerd and she loves romance novels and both get different types of gatekeeping from fellow readers and it seriously needs to stop. So thanks for making this merph❤️
Thanks for bringing this up. I have so many things I have been "bookshamed" about. 1) I am 52 years old and read fantasy. 2) I read epic fantasy such as Wheel of Time but also low-end such as Dresden and Drizzt 3) I read both cozy mysteries and noir mysteries and finally 4) riding in my car 3 hours a day back and forth to work I have a bunch of audio books and DO consider that reading.... all these have at one time or another been ridiculed so thank you for bringing this up. Let us all appreciate others circumstances and likes.😁
In France (and I am French) this gate keeping is so pervasive I didn’t let myself read anything else than classics until 2 years ago (and I’m 24) just because I didn’t want to accept that I didn’t like “real” literature and wanted to read fantasy instead I’m much happier since I’ve listened to myself
This is the video I needed! I’ve always loved to read fantasy and growing up I was made fun of for it. My classmates thought it was “nerdy” and “weird”. So when I became an adult I almost felt ashamed when someone asked me what I was reading and I told them it was a fantasy book. It took me finding this community to become comfortable with my love for fantasy and realize that it’s not weird, it’s just what I like. Thank you Merphy for the confidence boost and the chance for these discussions so my hobby isn’t so lonely.
Whenever I find myself gatekeeping, I tell myself "Well, you're going to look like an idiot later when you figure out you like it." Reading tastes change as the person changes. And how wonderful it is. Yay for a Classics Phase. Yay for a non-fiction phase. Yay for a paranormal-romance phase.
I know right, I used to read crime thrillers exclusively so people used to say "So you like being risky or something? Maybe you shouldn't... " I mean, I'm reading about it, not doing it, duh...
Ok, but I would definitely read a book about an avid reader who uses knowledge from books they read to commit the "perfect crime" can someone write this or if it exists tell me about it!
I think many people look down on romance readers because romance is much more successful (commercially) than other, more rare genres. So the romance reader is seen as someone who doesn't search their stuff, stay on what's popular and lack character. Which of course is wrong, because people wouldn't read it if it lacked quality. Just to be clear btw I don't really read romance personally, but I do enjoy when a scifi or dystopian book or something like that has romance in it.
@@Lynn-CA oh I understood that and I totally get it. So many booktubers are generally not into romance and I get it. Heck, my mother expected me to grow out of it. And while now I read everything (except horror, I’m too chicken) the best pick me up for me is still a feel good HEA I can finish in 2 to 3 hours.
For me the worst gatekeeping has been comics/graphic novel where you're either too mainstream or you should no the entire history of the characters within the community and most readers outside see us as not really a part of the community.
my experience has been that as a young, traditionally "attractive", woman, I'm invited to read whatever I want and am met with openness and enthusiasm but my friends who don't fall into these categories have been met with tons of gatekeeping. I've had friends who get remarks about liking anime and comics, or fantasy/sci fi "just to find a boyfriend". Horrible.
It’s pretty funny how every Sanderfan will call their author who consistently hits the best seller lists, finished the Wheel of Time series, and has over 21 million copies sold worldwide a “niche author”.
I feel like the American "English Class" has a lot to do with this, at least as a starting point. I have to fight with this often even though I think it's awful?? Like I hate gatekeeping like this but catch myself sometimes looking down on people who aren't interested in certain things or are interested is in others. Maybe the conversations around what books we read in school started this?? I'm not sure but I feel like it might have. I work on it constantly
the worst part about school is they make reading a chore. a lot of people leave school to never read a book again because for them it was something akin to work. gosh i hate schools.
I have seen more "front door keeping" than gatekeeping in general - people love to let others into their first experience (the yard) with a fandom, but then you're not TRULY a fan (and able to stay in the house) until you can quote the Silmarilion or have read the series 4 times, etc.
I agree 100% as an equestrian there is loads of gatekeeping in the horse industry Ex. “I barrel race” “Oh that’s not real riding. Jumping is” “Eww” It’s sooo annoying like we all ride horses and as long as the discipline is not hurting the horse it’s fine.
I definitely agree, there is a lot of gate keeping and not just in the reading community and I find it to be disheartening to see it happen in any space. It makes people feel like it's not okay to have niche interests or unconventional interests and I wish there was less of it. I don't think it will ever really go away completely.
The kind of gatekeeping I see a lot of, not so much on booktube but other social media, is in regards to how the book is consumed. People just love to shit on audiobooks and claim that it doesn't "count" if you didn't read the book yourself. I've seen so many people squabble over semantics (ie "you can't call it reading when you're actually listening") for literally no reason and then get upset when it's pointed out that their argument is pointless and also really ableist. Again, no one is forcing them to listen to audiobooks; it's perfectly valid to prefer to read physical books, but then you can just say "audiobooks are not for me" and let other people do what works best for them.
The thing is that everything you wanna publish you can do it.... that leads to a lot of poorly written things, that therwisw would see the light of the day, but those stories are soley for fans of that fandom. Also that because of the age of the people writting it they can be really toxic... after is the proof But there are a lot of good written things on the internet, that are still on my mind and consider favorites. I can understand why people look bad on fanfiction, because the popular ones published seem really bad.
@@ZaxololRiyodin for every good story there are four bad ones (and I'm being kind) but as someone who actually uses Wattpad I have to say that once you know your way around wattpad you start being able to distinguish them just by looking at the sinopse... But it's still tricky ... Some of the trashiest things I've ever seen come from Wattpad but some pretty good stories I've read come from there too.
This is something that really, really gets on my nerves.. I am so glad you made a video about it because it puts words onto the topic and brings some light to it. Elitism is so gross because it's so unnecessary. It's kinda like "I like being happy. but in order for me to be happy I need to make you feel miserable." It makes no sense, as you said, no one actually gains anything from this. It is possible to feel good about the things you like, without dissing the things that others like.
I think the only thing that really frustrates me is when people say something is “bad” instead of “they didn’t enjoy it.” Like if someone reads Dune and says it’s bad. No, Dune is great, you didn’t like it, but it’s still a fantastic book.
I experienced hearing comments about how all readers have read Harry Potter and how everyone loves Harry Potter to the point where I felt like I had to read it and when I read the first book I didn't like it and had no interest in continuing and was scared to say anything manly because book Twitter scares me.
I totally agree with everything you're saying. I totally despise it when people think your taste isn't good just because it doesn't matches theirs. And this stands for everything in life, not just books. People kinda need to learn to respect others' likes and dislikes, not to bash something someone else loves only because you don't like it and live without getting that angry when something doesn't match your ideals. We are all different worlds, that's the fun part.
Yes, please give it another go. I know you said you tried guards guards and it wasn’t really your thing, but if you search for discworld reading order you can find plenty of other good ways in (personally would recommend Equal Rites and then Wyrd Sisters). Honestly, I love this series so much, my friends are probably sick of me telling them to read it 😂
Daniel can be a bit silly like that or he might've mixed them up. Clearly there is Sir Terry and then there's all the other authors. This is not an opinion, this is fact. ;)
I don't know if you had this topic planned out ahead of time, or if you noticed gatekeeping was trending on Twitter yesterday, but this video was well-timed!
Whenever I dislike a book that someone is excited about, I always try to find at least one good thing about it. I may not enjoy what they're reading, but I'm never gonna make them feel bad about it. The fact that they're reading at all is AWESOME to me.
Can we also add to these "gatekeepers" that the way someone enjoys the hobby has nothing to do with them. If someone only listens to audiobooks still makes them a book lover. As a community we should be encouraging each other not stamping on each other.
I can’t even believe people do this😭😭, like dude every genre is for anyone who wants to read it. None are better than the other cause everyone has their own opinions. I’m on your side MERPH💪🏾🔥
on a surface level it can be hard to believe, but alienation is a natural form of creating individuality and comradery. consider the example of sports teams. often you are a fan of one team which naturally pits you against another. it's not about whose team is better, its more personal. its about you being a fan. its part of your identity in the sports world. Alienation, while respecting those you are alienating is not bad. taking things personal out of insecurity is the problem
At this point, I’m just glad people still read books. Usually when people tell me they do, my heart swells a bit. And, just throwing this out there, why do people think you’re always hitting on them if you meet and find a common topic? Isn’t that called making a new friend? Just musing. Thanks for the videos!
The thing is, if you havent read the books you will miss out on so much and there will be things you will not understand. Thats not an opinion, that is fact. Having said that, if you're only interested in beeing entertained for a few hours, without getting deeper into it the theateical cuts are fine. It all depends on what your goals are.
For the last six years I do a thing with new acquaintances where I ask them for their favorite book and add it to my to-read list. I think everyone should try to get out of their comfort zone once in a while and try what other people love. I’ve read a bunch of interesting non-fiction books that I never would have picked up on my own since I love YA fantasy.
I feel this! I am so self-conscious when I talk about what I read with people in real life because I feel like they will look down on me. None of them read the same books as me or rather most of them "aged out" of reading fantasy which makes me feel like someone who hasn't grown up yet (in a bad way). When I'm alone or on the internet I can be all like, well if growing up means I can't enjoy the things I do then I don't want to grow up, but my anxiety kicks in hardcore
I think, beyond writers there Is also a Kinda look down at writers of stories which aren't that "elite". Or not that demanding or easier to read. But that doesn't mean that there writers aren't less talented.
Your grocery store tale is SO relatable. Especially in Brazil, where basically NOBODY knows who Sanderson is. When I find someone who has read Mistborn I FREAK OUT. I need help. hahahahaha
Yeah, I think one the big problems in the book community is people thinking “I don’t like this = this is a bad book”. And obviously there are a lot of bad books, and people are allowed to say that, but I think it’s very good to realize when something is fine but just not for you.
I agree with you. I remember when my friends would look down on me because I liked YA and it was like “...but I still read around 30 books more than anyone else, so how I’m not a reader?”. And the same apply to teens reading “trashy teen books”. I may not like them, but I’m so happy and proud that they’re reading!
How to deal with "gatekeepers": realize that this term used in this way was invented by non fans to describe people who called them out for trying to pretend to like something because it's getting popular and that since you actually enjoy the thing you can talk about it casually without being threatened by simple questions like "Who's your favorite character?" Or "Do you know the secret handshake that only REAL WoT fans are capable of?"
Books are highly personal, and at times can be life changing, couple that with the fact that cordial disagreements are a difficult life skill that even adults struggle with, these things considered I think you have to let people vent a little. The real problem starts when someone gets an attitude and you take it personal instead of understanding where they are coming from.
LOL at the grocery store guy. We just got back from a family trip to Utah where we hiked partway up Mt. Timpanogos to see pikas, and my brother (who works for Brandon Sanderson), was wearing an anime shirt. While we were stopped at a waterfall a young guy mentioned that he liked my brother's shirt, so he said we're a rather geeky family, and my sister asked him if he read Brandon Sanderson and told him who my brother was. Apparently he did recognize the name (Peter Ahlstrom) and said something like, "Wow, it's so nice to meet you!" Then later while we were eating our snacks and watching pikas, two guys walked by who were listening to Rhythm of War on audiobook. We all just kind of looked at each other but didn't say anything. (They were going too fast!) That was a funny moment. 😆
I just came across your channel today, this is the second video I’ve watched and I’m loving your personality! This video in particular, I’ve had these exact thoughts about book lovers as well! There are so many niches within one genre.
And then there's readers like me, whose reading material is 70% fanfiction, but I'm still not a real lover of reading because I don't read "real books."
I find lots of people blow off any online reading as "not reading". I'll admit I was one of those people who blew off fanfiction as "not real book" because I guess I didn't like the idea of it?? I don't know. Your comment made me realize that fact though, and how stupid it is. It's still real people writing words and publishing them online for people to read. Its not even as though fanfiction is new! Not even counting the bible, there are plenty of books that were written as retellings of greek myths, in both the distant past and the now, and to the ancient greeks that would totally count as fanfiction! As for right now, I think maybe some of it stems from the fact that a lot of the online books and fanfics people read are currently being written and since they aren't completed they don't count? Except they totally do, because many of the great classics were weekly short stories that were eventually compiled into full books! And there are _tons_ of books being written in this way that I follow as they update. It's weird. Anyways, I hope you have a nice day!
@@ViridianForests Your reply is perfection! You know, I suspect people think that because a book is traditionally published that it's gone through certain vetting channels. Thus, it must be good. But that's just really not the case. There are plenty of books that got published that really were only published to make money. Traditional publishing is really just a form of gatekeeping. You can find way more inclusivity (like different interests and LGBTQ+ friendly) in fanfiction and online books like on Royal Road, Wattpad, and Webnovel. Stories are stories, no matter the form they come in. 😊❤
@@brittanyg7700 Oh absolutely! I know of a few books I've read on Royal Road and Wattpad that are incredible and many of them that are actually much longer than most traditionally published books and they're wonderful! Honestly, I hope some of them decide to self-publish some day so I can get physical copies. I read a lot on my computer and on paper, but since my job has me sitting in front of a screen all day I like having paper to relax my eyes to before bed, but both are great! I absolutely agree with your last sentence! They're so fun, whether you find them in games, books, audiobooks, websites, movies or whatever, you can never beat a good story
I haven't experienced much gatekeeping among fellow readers. I have experienced a sort of prejudice though from non-readers, as in I'm automatically labeled as a snob, uppity, or brainiac with a negative connotation and been excluded from things because of this assumption. That hurts. I AM smart and reading is a huge part of that. It has opened up so much of the world to me. I don't force knowledge on anyone else, but I find that when I answer a question that others didn't know the answer to, for example in a game, it sometimes has brought out others negative side. In the past it has led me to withdraw and not engage as much to avoid the negativity. But over time, I have carefully build my support network, and have found many friends who love to read and are are so excited and supportive.
“I just don’t have time for fiction. I read non-fiction because I would rather be productive in my free time.” Heard this at a design conference and got really bummed out that the person needed to rational how they spend their free time. Thanks, Capitalism™️!
Absolutely agree! I may not understand or like certain genres, but if a story brings you joy go ahead! That reaction would also be me, I love discussing books, hypotheticals, symbolism, and just about everything in my favorite series.
I've never encountered gatekeeping, mostly because I just keep to myself anyway, but I've heard of it happening and it's sad. It's become a serious turn-off for me when making friends because they sometimes turn into gatekeepers, and I'm sitting there like: "I just wanna enjoy books, man, why you gotta be like this?"
I’m just so excited to talk to someone who is reading. I don’t care what you read. You READ! An actually book!!! Yes please! I had a friend who was an avid reader but refused to have book discussions with me cause she was so embarrassed to be a big fan of paranormal romance. Never would believe that I was fine with it. Really sad.
This was hilarious. I've never heard the term gatekeeper, or as you mentioned elitism. Everyone has a personal preference and also, readers grow and tastes change. I see a lot of attacks on goodreads who don't like a book they loved, but haven't experienced the elitism. But I will absolutely call a book trash. As readers we get to have that right, but it wasn't based on a specific niche/genre. Too funny the guy in the produce section gave you a fake name. 🤣
A long time ago, we used to refer to them as Keepers of Orthodoxy. In any area of passion/interest, some invariably appoint themselves as priest/preistess of what is acceptable or right or true for that particular area. And it is always tiresome. I remember being told 50 years ago that comic books ( which I still love) were not really reading, and that they would ruin me for "real" reading. Several thousand books later, I smile and beg to disagree. Reading is a beautiful thing. Read anything that makes you feel that, and you're good.
It sounds silly but when I first started getting into reading I had no idea what genres really were. I just knew I liked Harry Potter, Bartimaeus, and Lord of the Rings. When I realized that fantasy was my favorite genre I was embarrassed to admit it for a while because I thought "fantasy" sounded girly
I love that you talked about this. My ex was a book snob (gatekeeper) and it used to make me so angry because when we first met I was so excited to be with someone who had the same passion for reading but I came to realize that he considered every book and genre I love to be paper-wasting drivel compared to the "far superior" literature that he preferred.
I totally agree! Everyone has different opinions because they are different people. No one should shame others because their opinion is different from theirs.
What's both ridiculous and hilarious about this is that storytelling is fundamentally an oral/aural tradition. We have been telling each other stories since the beginning of our existence, long before written language was a thing. You could make a pretty strong argument that listening to stories honors tradition more than reading physical copies of those stories does. Tell anti-audiobook folks that and watch their heads spin!
I'm only partially guilty of this, in that, for myself, I devalue audio books vs reading a physical book. Totally a personal preference. Obviously they are different experiences and to each their own for sure.
This is a big mood for me as I am a reader who doesn’t read my really any of the books talked about on the channel. I read mostly books based around philosophy or bartending (as I have been a bartender for about 5 yrs). I don’t hate fiction I’d just rather watch it than read it. I always felt that nonfiction is more efficient. Easier to breakdown a transparent argument than something that’s baked in imagery, hyperbole, symbolism and allegory. But I do enjoy enjoy good analysis, ergo why I’m here.
Definitely agree. No book is going to be everyone's cup of tea! The goal is that everyone can find something they like to read, no matter the genre or age range. I hate when people scoff at someone else's reading taste!
![Ranking My Least Favorite Tropes [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6wC3qrYAHV0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Ranking My Least Favorite Tropes [CC]](/img/tr.png)
![[Full Episode] MasterChef Junior Thailand มาสเตอร์เชฟ จูเนียร์ ประเทศไทย Season 3 Episode 13](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NlY2uzrALY8/mqdefault.jpg)
“I might have cornered him in the produce section to talk about Sanderson.” - Merphy Napier, 2021. Perfection.
Honestly that's probably something I would do 😂 Finding someone who loves the books you love is like finding a new best friend.
I mean that’s how I am anytime someone brings up Stephen King or Leigh Bardugo 😂
@@KarpAlexK lol That's me and Action/dystopian/sci-fi
Literally, me for dystopia/fantasy especially when I hear a random conversation across the room I have to fight the urge to go over
@@ajmalaika1287 same XD
Produce guy: "Hes kind of a niche author his name is Brandon Sanderson"
Ah yes I like to read his work while listening to the underground indie rock band Nirvana
Well, his books are a bit long :-D probably not something the majority of people even into fantasy would randomly pick up in a bookstore, so kinda nice
The Mistborn books are pretty short, or at least normal length lol
@@emmanarotzky6565 200,000+ words each?
He really isn't that well known outside of fantasy book community. He isn't one of the big ones like Steven King or J.K. Rowling or George R.R. Martin. He may seem as big as Nirvana but he isn't. (yet)
I've only heard of Brandon Sanderson through this channel and possibily one other booktuber, and fantasy would be a top genre of mine to read. However, massive music nerd, so def know about Nirvana
We need to normalize saying “that’s not for me” instead of saying everything we dislike is trash. We can dislike things and let people like the things they like.
Yes!!
Eh, I feel like as long as you're not attacking a person anything goes.
Agreed! Watching this channel has helped me big time in understanding some things I love are not for other people, but I can still love it, and so the opposite has to be true. It really has made a positive difference in talking about and thinking about books; I no longer think of something I don’t like as “bad” but instead think “well, this is meant for someone else in the world.” Even if I have negative opinions on the writing and execution of a story and not necessarily the story itself, I understand much better now that that’s exactly what they are: opinions.
@@platyperri I feel like that with Harry Potter, When it came out I was at that age where you think you can't read kids books, so i never read it which is weird because its definitely my genre. and I feel this happens to the Chronicles of Narnia. I grew up with Narnia and have a strong fondness for it. but i can understand why you may not enjoy it if you read it as an adult.
Or people can learn to accept themselves and not give a shit about other people's opinions. Chuck Tingle is a best selling author, some people do enjoy actual trash.
Gatekeeping gatekeepers from gatekeeping is the only acceptable form of gatekeeping.
I don’t know whether to call this alliteration or the use of repetition in poetry to make a point but this is the best comment on here 😂😂😂
This comment.......is the BEST ONE i have seen in a while.
@@brenna_marie Yeah yeah I was going for that allte... alliteration.. thing
*Whispers in the ear*: It already looked awkward with 3 of the same words so I forced one extra to make it look intentional ;)
@@Feferedon 😂😂😂
Was this the kind of power that you've been searching for all your life?
(Joking about commenters profile pic, not tryin to be rude haha)
Why do I never get cornered in the produce section by a wonderful book nerd? Why does this only ever happen to other people?
You need her T-shirt 😂
@@richardgurney1844 me too
I have the same question! Oh. Wait. I haven't been in a grocery store in months, that probably doesn't help 😅
@@Merlijn1994 - well, to be fair, up to now if I wanted to be corned by a book nerd, I would have hung out in bookstores. I had no idea they are found primarily in grocery stores.
Thats what I was thinking...
Another form of Gatekeeping I've discovered within reading communities:
"I've read 4627362746 books, You? Oh, only 30 books this year?" *judgmental glare*
Seriously? As a 38yo that only starting "getting into" reading / collecting pretty books 📖 a couple of years ago... any goal that's higher than 0⃣-books I think is an achievement.
In 2021 I'm aiming for 24+ (basically 2 books a month) and they're usually BRICKS because I tend to like the epic/High Fantasy stuff.
Why is reading 24 bricks better/worse than reading 100 novellas? 🤷🏻♂️
Shouldn't it be about how much we ENJOYED whatever it is we've chosen to read, than the sheer NUMBER of books?
People read at different speeds and have different schedules, too. For many people, finishing *one* book is an achievement - never mind however many more on top of that!
Just adding on my own two cents. 😁
I read frustratingly slowly. I'm going to be lucky to crack the 10 books per year mark at this point. Still reading Leviathan Wakes and Gardens Of The Moon and I started them LAST YEAR! (almost finished Leviathan Wakes though). My reading speed is around 40 pages per hour and I'm lucky if I manage more than 3 hours reading per week. I spent a significant amount of 2020 reading The Way Of Kings... I think it took Brandon Sanderson less time to write the damn thing.
The point about novellas versus novels is so interesting. Because I always feel bad for adding novellas or shorter stories to my book count because it feels like “cheating”, but what even is a novel?? How long does it HAVE to be?? The whole “books per year” pressure is real and it always stresses me out
@@gracepowers3188 - yeah I totally get what you mean. I like to throw in shorter "novella"-sized books to break up the long epic reads that I usually go with. It freshens things up, almost like a palate cleanser before diving into Big Books again 😂 ✌🏻
@@gracepowers3188 Some of my favourite books of all time are short novels and novellas. Fahrenheit 451 and Ender's Game are both under 350 pages, and I love Stephen Kings novellas. But I agree its not equivalent to reading The Stand or a Stormlight Archives book. Maybe counting books is just a terrible metric regardless.
"If you haven't read / If you didn't love LOTR, you're not a real fantasy fan" is the one I tend to see most. I just wish everyone could get along with everyone else's opinions.
And not just with what kinds of books we like but life in geeneral.
Well, now you're talking about LOTR so... that's another story:)
Reads LOTR: "Ahhh, soul-nourishing!...Hey, we could make a religion out of this!"
When I was new to reading fantasy, I met someone whose favorite series was LotR, and I was nervous to tell him that it didn’t sound like something I’d enjoy because I thought he would scoff at me and walk away, but when I said I had no desire to read it, he said, “no worries, it’s my favorite but I know it’s not for everyone. You can like fantasy without liking LotR,” and I was so relieved that friendship can still bloom in the midst of differences of opinions, lol. But what does it say that I was expecting a mean response from him?? I think gatekeeping is so common that I was prepared for it to happen, but him being nice was a pleasant surprise when it actually should be the norm.
Yup. Same outcome with "Dune" in the Science Fiction genre.
One of the saddest things I see with this topic is people having to apologize for liking something. I see this with SJM a lot.... People think they have to because of the judgement that comes with it. I love SJM and I refuse to apologize for it.
So true
I don't think you have to apologize for liking something, but I think one can acknowledge something as a guilty pleasure. It's okay to say, "Look, I know these novels aren't very good, but I enjoy reading them anyway."
I think one reason people feel compelled to apologize for what they read is because they (or whom they are talking to) conflate what they like with what is "good" in some objective sense.
@@HunchbackJack sometimes it's not because of quaity of the writing, but because of butthurt armchair political activists.
So. I don't read SJM. I tried her once, but it wasn't for me. I can still acknowledge that she is doing something right, because she is selling tons of books and many people love her stories. People read for fun. If you like the books, why should you have to justify that on front of others who think of themselves as superior, because they read "smart" books or whatever.
I'll never get that.
You know what Taylor Swift said: "The haters' gonna hate, hate, hate hate..."
Readers can be pretty snobbish. They look down on people who don’t like to read, people who read less than them, people who listen to audiobooks and people who read different genres/authors. Most of them are nice, but it can be a pretty gatekeeping community in a way.
Humans are inherently snobbish.
@@mattjmjmjm4731 Yeah, and some people are a lot more snobbish than others.
I'll admit that I can be snobbish to non-readers. To me, it's like 'how can you miss out on such a great hobby?' A brother of my ex actually said "You have too many books" with his first visit to our new apartment. I was like - WTF? Then I said, in a very snobbish tone "One can never have enough books!"
As a bookseller, I second that. The number of people who have made the most... Bewilderingly snobby comments about their family members who don't like to read is astonishing to me. I get finding it odd if you love it so much yourself, but the *attitude* that comes with it is disgusting.
I often catch myself thinking stuff like "ugh, ofc they are a romance reader" or "ofc they only read self help books"
and then I pause and have to hold _myself_ a lecture about how everyone should read what they like
so, a lot of internalised "gatekeeping" I think
I appreciate the honesty. everyone struggles with looking down on others. its a normal reaction. it's frustrating to see so many comments from people talking like they would never look down on someone else.
It’s really cool of you to keep yourself accountable like that. I try to do the same thing. It’s easy to point out what’s right and how we should act or think in theory, but much harder to actually hold oneself to that standard, or even more so, change behavior.
One of my "favorite" types of elitism is when you say you didn't like something and the first reply is basicly "oh, you just didn't GET it. If you were as smart as me you would have understood it better and then you surley would have liked it as much as I do. Let me explain the obvious symbolism that you clearly missed."
And you're there lisening going "no no, I absolutley understood all that. Still didn't like it though."
This is some Malazan fans. Lord knows if you say "it didn't click for me" the fans will come at you about it for not getting it because the characters are telegraphed on paper, but rather on emotion description.
My English teacher did this once when I said I didn’t like “The crucible”. Jokes on her, I’ve read it since and actually like it less than before because of how it treats female characters.
I see that with music a lot, like "oh, you probably didn't understand the lyrics. they're so deep and profound, you couldn't possibly dislike this song otherwise" - no, I just don't like the sound / the genre of this song
I had these exact fears about American Gods and the entire First Law trilogy, Bc I didn’t really like either that much and I feel like people will always say I didn’t understand the grittiness or the poignancy of some hidden message. And like no, I got it, just didn’t care. Or the rest of the book was so meh that it didn’t matter.
THIS! I read pride and prejudice and hated every second of it. Read the goodreads reviews and everytime someone wrote that it wasn't for them, they would literally be put down as 'too dumb to understand'. Like nah I understood the book, it isn't that hard to understand pride and prejudice... I still hated it.
I noticed a lot of internalised gatekeeping behaviour within myself, don't know why, but I always make very sure to not let it determine my actions, because it's just not nice and very disrespectful
It's good to recognize your own flaws
Good on you! I can relate, I noticed it in myself too (only in some very specific contexts tho, not with books specifically). I was genuinly taken aback when I realized because I'd always considered myself quite open-minded. I'm taking extra care to not do it now.
it's so wierd cause I don't do it to other people, but I do it a lot with myself? like, I'm very often mad at myself cause I'm not reading "serious and important books", like wtf. I wouldn't say that about anyone's reading, but I do it to myself time and time again
I get that. I used to be a gatekeeper in the more classic sense. “You aren’t a REAL Percy Jackson fan if you’ve only seen the movies”, things like that. I’m over that now, like what you like. I do think you need to clarify that though so I know what we’re talking because the characters and scenes are VERY different than they are in the books.
Yeah, same here. I read a lot of romance and there's so much judgement when it comes to that genre that I used to hesitate to tell people I read it. These days, whenever someone asks me what kind of books I read, romance and fantasy are my first answers.
Gatekeeping is the death of hobbies. I hate it to its core. Things should be open to anybody (in my humble opinion).
I love your user name lol
@@artbycallie6816 why thank you, nobody's ever said that before. Could you draw my profile picture?
@@blobbypanda1613 oh you're welcome. Your profile picture is only a letter, so I could draw it, but I wouldn't put it on my channel 😉
@@artbycallie6816 seriously? For nothing? Thanks
@@blobbypanda1613 yeah lol no problem XD
When I think about gatekeeping I always wonder what uncle iroh would say: "Zuko, don't be angry because people are showing interest in what you've always liked, rather than thinking they are here to poison a community, see that now there's more people to share and talk about the joy of loving something together. You don't need to be an expert to find the beauty in art."
"AND THEY ALL SUCK"
that little skit made me chuckle
One of the benefits of not engaging in online communities is avoiding stuff like this. I'll read a classic from the 1600's and afterwards I'll pick up some Glee fanfiction, and nobody cares.
don quixote?
"Unfortunately, he talked to me." XD Been there
This video not starting with the usual "okay so," but directly with "GATEKEEPING !" startled me 😆
"And THEY ALL SUCK" is now a gif that I will be overusing. Thank you for that lol
how do you make a gif? I need this too 😂
@@MsBlulucky I have an app for it. But I think iphones can just do it on their own
@@DryBooks What's the name of the app? I don't have an iphone
@@MsBlulucky play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.createconvertergif.editorgif
This one! Its called gif maker!. Hope it helps ☺
@@DryBooks awesome, thanks! 😀
The idea that Sanderson is niche when literally everyone reads or recommends it for everyone, even people who don’t read adult fantasy, makes me laugh 😂
Probably because he isn't Stephen King or JK Rowling famous.
Outside of my specific fantasy/DnD friend group, none of my friends would know Brandon Sanderson, and most of them are avid readers. I wouldn’t describe him as a niche author, but he probably won’t be a household name across the board until/unless one of his books is turned into a blockbuster. Just my prediction though.
@@KHBogWitch in my experience in the book community, he’s literally always talked about, especially on Reddit and booktube. My friends who aren’t big readers at all know him. His books are in Target. All that to say, I think he’s not a niche author, even if epic fantasy is more of a niche genre. He’s the poster boy for adult fantasy.
@@phix27 To be fair, not all readers participate in book communities. I think the guy calling Sanderson a “niche author” was probably just a way of sidestepping mention of adult fantasy, because I agree, I wouldn’t describe him as niche either.
I think, it depends, where you live. Here in Germany nobody outside American fantasy communities has never heard of Sanderson.
"hobby police" lol. my 15yo self needed this video so badly. i was such an awful fan back then. all the time i was like "that's not a real book" "that's not actual music". thanks Merphy
Merphy's acting skills are GOD LEVEL! Not even kidding 😂😂😂
😂😂😂
And the Oscar goes to...
Running into Merphy in a supermarket and discussing Brandon Sanderson books sounds like a dream come true! Lol tough look for that guy hahaha
The guy sounds like a anime male character. freaks out when a pretty girl talks to him then runs away. classic
@@rogersisson8580 AHAHA SHIT!
I have actual dreams about meeting a pretty girl that wants to talk about fantasy books lol
"... AND THEY ALL SUCK!" :)
Thank you, for that.
Some of the gatekeeping especially in "nerd culture" stems from years of being marginalized and ridiculed by their peers. Now that reading manga or playing games is somewhat accept by society some try to use this to look down on people that did the same to them many years back. In my opinion this is not the way to go as we have the unique opportunity to openly share our interests with others now and instead of gatekeeping we should invite them and share our joy!
You nailed it
We should go back to bullying nerds to solve this problem!
@@KezanzatheGreat Haha I was just joking man, we shouldn't be bullying anyone for their hobbies 😅
It feels like someone has appropriated our culture by mainstreaming comics, SF, etc. A harmful emotional response from a former persecuted minority group.
@@AustinBeeman Oh give me a break 🙄.
Being a Nerd doesn't make you a Persecuted Minority Group and comparing the two is insulting to anyone who was actually enslaved or sent to a concentration camp.
I'm wondering if the produce guy has ever watched your videos and went that's the lady that cornered me in the grocery store, and is now kicking himself for the fake name. 🤣
Maybe
😂😂
IT WAS ME!!! Okay, not really... 😂
Guess we gotta drop lots of likes and comments and maybe the algorithm will send Merphy to him
@@Red-Wolf-Ben 😂😂😂
A wise man once said: "In my opinion, your opinion is wrong"
I had a coworker look at the book I was reading once and go "Oh you're reading fiction! It's so cute how you like fiction!" and brag that he only read nonfiction. Like....do you want a prize?
I went through a time in my life when I believed that only classics and serious non-fiction were acceptable reading. Then I went through a rough period and picked up a "trashy" YA series. It was *so* good. I wrestled with guilt over loving the series for a while. Me, a grown woman liking the book equivalent of junk food?? What that even OKAY??
But I made peace with it eventually and started reading more YA, more romance, more fantasy. And let me tell you: the number of books I read per year has more than tripled since then. I still read classics. I still read serious non-fiction. But let me tell you, my life is so much better because I decided it was okay for me to read other genres. I'm so happy I got over my snobby, gatekeeping self.
On an unrelated note, I finally started Lies of Locke Lamora. I love it so far.
I also read this one because of this chanel and LOVED IT. I hope you like it all the way through.
Metoo! I read the prologue yesterday and I’m already hooked🔥
Yes! More Gentleman Bastards! Welcome to the crew.
I liked it but didn't love it and DNFd red seas under red skies, but between Merphy and Daniel constantly hyping the series I feel like I should give it a second chance
@@Merlijn1994 oh I get it. I absolutely love book 1, but I hate reading about boats. So book 2 was a little hard for me. I do think it was worth it for me though. I guess it depends on the why you DNFed it.
"I'm working through One Piece,"
Your children will be grown when you're done. (This isn't a personal dig I've told two other people this)
my children will be grown when the AUTHOR is done, honestly. him, Martin, Rothfuss, and that Berserk manga fella are milking this for a lifetime.
@@MrShaiya96 to be fair, Rothfuss has been making progress on DoS recently.
@@MrShaiya96 uhhhh I definitely wouldn’t consider oda to be milking one piece if anything he’s speeding things up and cutting a few corners nowadays.
Can’t really defend George or Miura however.
@@MrShaiya96 I also immediately thought of Rothfuss and Martin... our children´s children will die of old age before the last book in the series is out... or at least that´s how it feels 😂
poor guy who missed the chance to make a good friendship lol
He had all of our dreams come true and let it go to waste. What a shame 🤭
@@taylor_green_9 😂 so yes
Elitism makes me sad. I believe I'm internally guilty of it myself, sometimes. It's probably because we're so attached to the things we love we feel very protective of them. Those stories become a part of us and it hurts to have them insulted. It's an attack on our person, a deep one, because it encompasses our belief system, something at the core of our being,. Our likes go very deep, indeed.
Elitism/gatekeeping is a perfect occasion to show in an "objective" way that our opinions are valid, that there is a tangible proof of their superiority. Too bad opinions are just that - opinions. They're subjective.
There'll always be someone who says "Oh, I see you have *tAsTe"* AKA "I'm willing to accept you because you have enough sense to like the same thing as I do."
That's so funny about cornering a guy in the shop to talk books, cause been there done that - I also happen to do it on a regular basis to my family, I get so excited and I can tell that everyone is soo fed up of hearing about whatever book I'm talking about but I can't seem to help myself
in the anime community, i feel like people who watch "kids" shows are literally feared by everybody else it's so funny
Something else I feel is that Houseki no Kuni is a lovely manga/anime!
@@Eterrath one of my faves :)
@@dramallamayup Oh Phos, how far you’ve steered away from the one I knew before 😔 (drama aside, love houseki no kuni!)
my dad thinks all animation is for kids. doesn't matter how much blood, gore, or swearing there is. he would probably label hentai as "for kids" if he ever saw it lol.
@@tannerrich2388 my parents are the same 💀
POV: you're looking for a Mistborn hangover guy who Merphy cornered in comments
Me and my best friend were literally talking about this the other day. I am a huge fantasy nerd and she loves romance novels and both get different types of gatekeeping from fellow readers and it seriously needs to stop.
So thanks for making this merph❤️
Thanks for bringing this up. I have so many things I have been "bookshamed" about. 1) I am 52 years old and read fantasy. 2) I read epic fantasy such as Wheel of Time but also low-end such as Dresden and Drizzt 3) I read both cozy mysteries and noir mysteries and finally 4) riding in my car 3 hours a day back and forth to work I have a bunch of audio books and DO consider that reading.... all these have at one time or another been ridiculed so thank you for bringing this up. Let us all appreciate others circumstances and likes.😁
Thank you. Same here. 😀
I often say the words "Don't yuck my yums"
And that works for food, books, television, movies, etc
That's awesome! It also has a great ring to it 👌🏻👏🏻
In France (and I am French) this gate keeping is so pervasive I didn’t let myself read anything else than classics until 2 years ago (and I’m 24) just because I didn’t want to accept that I didn’t like “real” literature and wanted to read fantasy instead
I’m much happier since I’ve listened to myself
This is the video I needed! I’ve always loved to read fantasy and growing up I was made fun of for it. My classmates thought it was “nerdy” and “weird”. So when I became an adult I almost felt ashamed when someone asked me what I was reading and I told them it was a fantasy book. It took me finding this community to become comfortable with my love for fantasy and realize that it’s not weird, it’s just what I like. Thank you Merphy for the confidence boost and the chance for these discussions so my hobby isn’t so lonely.
Whenever I find myself gatekeeping, I tell myself "Well, you're going to look like an idiot later when you figure out you like it." Reading tastes change as the person changes. And how wonderful it is. Yay for a Classics Phase. Yay for a non-fiction phase. Yay for a paranormal-romance phase.
I know right, I used to read crime thrillers exclusively so people used to say "So you like being risky or something? Maybe you shouldn't... " I mean, I'm reading about it, not doing it, duh...
not understanding the difference between fiction and reality is my pet peeve xD
Ok, but I would definitely read a book about an avid reader who uses knowledge from books they read to commit the "perfect crime" can someone write this or if it exists tell me about it!
@@abbys6260 well.... its kind of that called eight perfect murders, i havent read it because it spoils the books hahaha
@@pepperonicici absolutely!!!!!
Merphy the Stalker! 😂
And EVERYONE looks down on the romance readers 🙄🤬🖕
(Yes I know, not everyone ..... but it does feel like it sometimes)
I proudly read loads of romance and it’s very various sub genre.❤️
AGREE
@@Arezoo298195 To clarify, I'm a romance reader too and proud. Just making a comment on how that is received
I think many people look down on romance readers because romance is much more successful (commercially) than other, more rare genres. So the romance reader is seen as someone who doesn't search their stuff, stay on what's popular and lack character. Which of course is wrong, because people wouldn't read it if it lacked quality. Just to be clear btw I don't really read romance personally, but I do enjoy when a scifi or dystopian book or something like that has romance in it.
@@Lynn-CA oh I understood that and I totally get it. So many booktubers are generally not into romance and I get it. Heck, my mother expected me to grow out of it. And while now I read everything (except horror, I’m too chicken) the best pick me up for me is still a feel good HEA I can finish in 2 to 3 hours.
For me the worst gatekeeping has been comics/graphic novel where you're either too mainstream or you should no the entire history of the characters within the community and most readers outside see us as not really a part of the community.
my experience has been that as a young, traditionally "attractive", woman, I'm invited to read whatever I want and am met with openness and enthusiasm but my friends who don't fall into these categories have been met with tons of gatekeeping. I've had friends who get remarks about liking anime and comics, or fantasy/sci fi "just to find a boyfriend". Horrible.
It’s pretty funny how every Sanderfan will call their author who consistently hits the best seller lists, finished the Wheel of Time series, and has over 21 million copies sold worldwide a “niche author”.
I feel like the American "English Class" has a lot to do with this, at least as a starting point. I have to fight with this often even though I think it's awful?? Like I hate gatekeeping like this but catch myself sometimes looking down on people who aren't interested in certain things or are interested is in others. Maybe the conversations around what books we read in school started this?? I'm not sure but I feel like it might have. I work on it constantly
the worst part about school is they make reading a chore. a lot of people leave school to never read a book again because for them it was something akin to work. gosh i hate schools.
I have seen more "front door keeping" than gatekeeping in general - people love to let others into their first experience (the yard) with a fandom, but then you're not TRULY a fan (and able to stay in the house) until you can quote the Silmarilion or have read the series 4 times, etc.
I agree 100% as an equestrian there is loads of gatekeeping in the horse industry
Ex. “I barrel race”
“Oh that’s not real riding. Jumping is”
“Eww”
It’s sooo annoying like we all ride horses and as long as the discipline is not hurting the horse it’s fine.
I definitely agree, there is a lot of gate keeping and not just in the reading community and I find it to be disheartening to see it happen in any space. It makes people feel like it's not okay to have niche interests or unconventional interests and I wish there was less of it. I don't think it will ever really go away completely.
The kind of gatekeeping I see a lot of, not so much on booktube but other social media, is in regards to how the book is consumed. People just love to shit on audiobooks and claim that it doesn't "count" if you didn't read the book yourself. I've seen so many people squabble over semantics (ie "you can't call it reading when you're actually listening") for literally no reason and then get upset when it's pointed out that their argument is pointless and also really ableist.
Again, no one is forcing them to listen to audiobooks; it's perfectly valid to prefer to read physical books, but then you can just say "audiobooks are not for me" and let other people do what works best for them.
I've been somewhat guilty of elitism against Wattpad stories.
The thing is that everything you wanna publish you can do it.... that leads to a lot of poorly written things, that therwisw would see the light of the day, but those stories are soley for fans of that fandom. Also that because of the age of the people writting it they can be really toxic... after is the proof
But there are a lot of good written things on the internet, that are still on my mind and consider favorites.
I can understand why people look bad on fanfiction, because the popular ones published seem really bad.
Some of them are really cool but you really have to know where to look for and what you are looking for
I don't blame you, they're usually pretty terrible 😅
@@ZaxololRiyodin for every good story there are four bad ones (and I'm being kind) but as someone who actually uses Wattpad I have to say that once you know your way around wattpad you start being able to distinguish them just by looking at the sinopse... But it's still tricky ... Some of the trashiest things I've ever seen come from Wattpad but some pretty good stories I've read come from there too.
ao3>>>
This is something that really, really gets on my nerves.. I am so glad you made a video about it because it puts words onto the topic and brings some light to it. Elitism is so gross because it's so unnecessary. It's kinda like "I like being happy. but in order for me to be happy I need to make you feel miserable." It makes no sense, as you said, no one actually gains anything from this. It is possible to feel good about the things you like, without dissing the things that others like.
I think the only thing that really frustrates me is when people say something is “bad” instead of “they didn’t enjoy it.” Like if someone reads Dune and says it’s bad. No, Dune is great, you didn’t like it, but it’s still a fantastic book.
As a 50 year old who has been reading and collecting comic books since the age of 7 .. ya, seen it, and dealt with it a lot :(
I experienced hearing comments about how all readers have read Harry Potter and how everyone loves Harry Potter to the point where I felt like I had to read it and when I read the first book I didn't like it and had no interest in continuing and was scared to say anything manly because book Twitter scares me.
This
No it's the opposite.
Because of J.K.Rowling, people get hated on for supporting it.
@@wariolandgoldpiramid This was a few years ago probably back in 2015 when I experienced this
I totally agree with everything you're saying. I totally despise it when people think your taste isn't good just because it doesn't matches theirs. And this stands for everything in life, not just books.
People kinda need to learn to respect others' likes and dislikes, not to bash something someone else loves only because you don't like it and live without getting that angry when something doesn't match your ideals. We are all different worlds, that's the fun part.
The poor guy got cornered 😂
When she was telling that story, I couldn't stop myself from laughing😂
On another note, are you planning on reading Discworld? It's now Daniel's second favourite fantasy series(after Wheel of Time, obviously😂)!
Yes, please give it another go. I know you said you tried guards guards and it wasn’t really your thing, but if you search for discworld reading order you can find plenty of other good ways in (personally would recommend Equal Rites and then Wyrd Sisters). Honestly, I love this series so much, my friends are probably sick of me telling them to read it 😂
@@justonemorechapter1069 The Wyrd Sisters series is amazing as well as the City Watch.
I would recommend either the Death series or Small Gods to start with.
Daniel can be a bit silly like that or he might've mixed them up. Clearly there is Sir Terry and then there's all the other authors. This is not an opinion, this is fact. ;)
I don't know if you had this topic planned out ahead of time, or if you noticed gatekeeping was trending on Twitter yesterday, but this video was well-timed!
oh no kidding really? I filmed this video a week ago haha
Whenever I dislike a book that someone is excited about, I always try to find at least one good thing about it. I may not enjoy what they're reading, but I'm never gonna make them feel bad about it. The fact that they're reading at all is AWESOME to me.
Omg that story about the man in the store made me laugh so hard! 😂😂 I would so be you in that situation Merph!
Can we also add to these "gatekeepers" that the way someone enjoys the hobby has nothing to do with them. If someone only listens to audiobooks still makes them a book lover. As a community we should be encouraging each other not stamping on each other.
I can’t even believe people do this😭😭, like dude every genre is for anyone who wants to read it. None are better than the other cause everyone has their own opinions. I’m on your side MERPH💪🏾🔥
on a surface level it can be hard to believe, but alienation is a natural form of creating individuality and comradery. consider the example of sports teams. often you are a fan of one team which naturally pits you against another. it's not about whose team is better, its more personal. its about you being a fan. its part of your identity in the sports world. Alienation, while respecting those you are alienating is not bad. taking things personal out of insecurity is the problem
At this point, I’m just glad people still read books. Usually when people tell me they do, my heart swells a bit. And, just throwing this out there, why do people think you’re always hitting on them if you meet and find a common topic? Isn’t that called making a new friend? Just musing. Thanks for the videos!
"I started watching the Lord of the Rings."
"Theatrical or extended cut?"
"theatrical, why?"
*takes deep breath*
The thing is, if you havent read the books you will miss out on so much and there will be things you will not understand.
Thats not an opinion, that is fact.
Having said that, if you're only interested in beeing entertained for a few hours, without getting deeper into it the theateical cuts are fine.
It all depends on what your goals are.
For the last six years I do a thing with new acquaintances where I ask them for their favorite book and add it to my to-read list. I think everyone should try to get out of their comfort zone once in a while and try what other people love. I’ve read a bunch of interesting non-fiction books that I never would have picked up on my own since I love YA fantasy.
OMG I love this idea! What a great way to get to know someone more too
I’m team “let people like what they like”
I feel this! I am so self-conscious when I talk about what I read with people in real life because I feel like they will look down on me. None of them read the same books as me or rather most of them "aged out" of reading fantasy which makes me feel like someone who hasn't grown up yet (in a bad way). When I'm alone or on the internet I can be all like, well if growing up means I can't enjoy the things I do then I don't want to grow up, but my anxiety kicks in hardcore
"I think I cornered him in the produce section" - I died. Then I grabbed my husband and made him watch this video :))
I love everything you said here. Such a good reminder that we don't need to judge people for being different than we are!
I think, beyond writers there Is also a Kinda look down at writers of stories which aren't that "elite". Or not that demanding or easier to read. But that doesn't mean that there writers aren't less talented.
Your grocery store tale is SO relatable. Especially in Brazil, where basically NOBODY knows who Sanderson is. When I find someone who has read Mistborn I FREAK OUT. I need help. hahahahaha
Yeah, I think one the big problems in the book community is people thinking “I don’t like this = this is a bad book”. And obviously there are a lot of bad books, and people are allowed to say that, but I think it’s very good to realize when something is fine but just not for you.
I agree with you. I remember when my friends would look down on me because I liked YA and it was like “...but I still read around 30 books more than anyone else, so how I’m not a reader?”. And the same apply to teens reading “trashy teen books”. I may not like them, but I’m so happy and proud that they’re reading!
How to deal with "gatekeepers": realize that this term used in this way was invented by non fans to describe people who called them out for trying to pretend to like something because it's getting popular and that since you actually enjoy the thing you can talk about it casually without being threatened by simple questions like "Who's your favorite character?" Or "Do you know the secret handshake that only REAL WoT fans are capable of?"
Books are highly personal, and at times can be life changing, couple that with the fact that cordial disagreements are a difficult life skill that even adults struggle with, these things considered I think you have to let people vent a little. The real problem starts when someone gets an attitude and you take it personal instead of understanding where they are coming from.
"You read? that's boring, anyway i'm going to play candy crush for 6 hours"....:)
LOL at the grocery store guy. We just got back from a family trip to Utah where we hiked partway up Mt. Timpanogos to see pikas, and my brother (who works for Brandon Sanderson), was wearing an anime shirt. While we were stopped at a waterfall a young guy mentioned that he liked my brother's shirt, so he said we're a rather geeky family, and my sister asked him if he read Brandon Sanderson and told him who my brother was. Apparently he did recognize the name (Peter Ahlstrom) and said something like, "Wow, it's so nice to meet you!" Then later while we were eating our snacks and watching pikas, two guys walked by who were listening to Rhythm of War on audiobook. We all just kind of looked at each other but didn't say anything. (They were going too fast!) That was a funny moment. 😆
The world would be a better place with more book hangovers than, well, actual hangovers.
I just came across your channel today, this is the second video I’ve watched and I’m loving your personality! This video in particular, I’ve had these exact thoughts about book lovers as well! There are so many niches within one genre.
And then there's readers like me, whose reading material is 70% fanfiction, but I'm still not a real lover of reading because I don't read "real books."
To be fair most books are actually fanfics of other books mainly the Bible 😂
I find lots of people blow off any online reading as "not reading". I'll admit I was one of those people who blew off fanfiction as "not real book" because I guess I didn't like the idea of it?? I don't know. Your comment made me realize that fact though, and how stupid it is. It's still real people writing words and publishing them online for people to read. Its not even as though fanfiction is new! Not even counting the bible, there are plenty of books that were written as retellings of greek myths, in both the distant past and the now, and to the ancient greeks that would totally count as fanfiction!
As for right now, I think maybe some of it stems from the fact that a lot of the online books and fanfics people read are currently being written and since they aren't completed they don't count? Except they totally do, because many of the great classics were weekly short stories that were eventually compiled into full books! And there are _tons_ of books being written in this way that I follow as they update. It's weird.
Anyways, I hope you have a nice day!
@@ViridianForests Your reply is perfection! You know, I suspect people think that because a book is traditionally published that it's gone through certain vetting channels. Thus, it must be good. But that's just really not the case. There are plenty of books that got published that really were only published to make money.
Traditional publishing is really just a form of gatekeeping. You can find way more inclusivity (like different interests and LGBTQ+ friendly) in fanfiction and online books like on Royal Road, Wattpad, and Webnovel.
Stories are stories, no matter the form they come in. 😊❤
@@brittanyg7700 Oh absolutely! I know of a few books I've read on Royal Road and Wattpad that are incredible and many of them that are actually much longer than most traditionally published books and they're wonderful! Honestly, I hope some of them decide to self-publish some day so I can get physical copies. I read a lot on my computer and on paper, but since my job has me sitting in front of a screen all day I like having paper to relax my eyes to before bed, but both are great!
I absolutely agree with your last sentence! They're so fun, whether you find them in games, books, audiobooks, websites, movies or whatever, you can never beat a good story
Omg I spend so much time reading fanfic. And barely any "real" books 🙃 I've technically already read 50 or so "books" if fanfic was counted 😭😂
I haven't experienced much gatekeeping among fellow readers. I have experienced a sort of prejudice though from non-readers, as in I'm automatically labeled as a snob, uppity, or brainiac with a negative connotation and been excluded from things because of this assumption. That hurts. I AM smart and reading is a huge part of that. It has opened up so much of the world to me. I don't force knowledge on anyone else, but I find that when I answer a question that others didn't know the answer to, for example in a game, it sometimes has brought out others negative side. In the past it has led me to withdraw and not engage as much to avoid the negativity. But over time, I have carefully build my support network, and have found many friends who love to read and are are so excited and supportive.
“I just don’t have time for fiction. I read non-fiction because I would rather be productive in my free time.”
Heard this at a design conference and got really bummed out that the person needed to rational how they spend their free time. Thanks, Capitalism™️!
Absolutely agree! I may not understand or like certain genres, but if a story brings you joy go ahead! That reaction would also be me, I love discussing books, hypotheticals, symbolism, and just about everything in my favorite series.
I've never encountered gatekeeping, mostly because I just keep to myself anyway, but I've heard of it happening and it's sad. It's become a serious turn-off for me when making friends because they sometimes turn into gatekeepers, and I'm sitting there like: "I just wanna enjoy books, man, why you gotta be like this?"
I’m just so excited to talk to someone who is reading. I don’t care what you read. You READ! An actually book!!! Yes please! I had a friend who was an avid reader but refused to have book discussions with me cause she was so embarrassed to be a big fan of paranormal romance. Never would believe that I was fine with it. Really sad.
This was hilarious. I've never heard the term gatekeeper, or as you mentioned elitism. Everyone has a personal preference and also, readers grow and tastes change. I see a lot of attacks on goodreads who don't like a book they loved, but haven't experienced the elitism. But I will absolutely call a book trash. As readers we get to have that right, but it wasn't based on a specific niche/genre. Too funny the guy in the produce section gave you a fake name. 🤣
A long time ago, we used to refer to them as Keepers of Orthodoxy. In any area of passion/interest, some invariably appoint themselves as priest/preistess of what is acceptable or right or true for that particular area. And it is always tiresome. I remember being told 50 years ago that comic books ( which I still love) were not really reading, and that they would ruin me for "real" reading. Several thousand books later, I smile and beg to disagree. Reading is a beautiful thing. Read anything that makes you feel that, and you're good.
It sounds silly but when I first started getting into reading I had no idea what genres really were. I just knew I liked Harry Potter, Bartimaeus, and Lord of the Rings. When I realized that fantasy was my favorite genre I was embarrassed to admit it for a while because I thought "fantasy" sounded girly
I love that you talked about this. My ex was a book snob (gatekeeper) and it used to make me so angry because when we first met I was so excited to be with someone who had the same passion for reading but I came to realize that he considered every book and genre I love to be paper-wasting drivel compared to the "far superior" literature that he preferred.
This definitely reminds me of when I couldn’t write sci fi or fantasy in my creative writing classes because it was considered “genre fiction.”
I totally agree! Everyone has different opinions because they are different people. No one should shame others because their opinion is different from theirs.
If someone thinks Sanderson is niche then they clearly aren’t involved in bookish communities at all cuz he huge 😂😂
"Support someone's reading even if its different from ours." Yes!
I see gatekeeping happen a lot to audiobook listeners as well (not really the other way around though lol).
What's both ridiculous and hilarious about this is that storytelling is fundamentally an oral/aural tradition. We have been telling each other stories since the beginning of our existence, long before written language was a thing. You could make a pretty strong argument that listening to stories honors tradition more than reading physical copies of those stories does. Tell anti-audiobook folks that and watch their heads spin!
@@ramywiles Good point!
I'm only partially guilty of this, in that, for myself, I devalue audio books vs reading a physical book. Totally a personal preference. Obviously they are different experiences and to each their own for sure.
That's such BS. I mean it's like saying screw you if you're blind or have other disabilities that make visual reading difficult/impossible.
This is a big mood for me as I am a reader who doesn’t read my really any of the books talked about on the channel. I read mostly books based around philosophy or bartending (as I have been a bartender for about 5 yrs). I don’t hate fiction I’d just rather watch it than read it. I always felt that nonfiction is more efficient. Easier to breakdown a transparent argument than something that’s baked in imagery, hyperbole, symbolism and allegory. But I do enjoy enjoy good analysis, ergo why I’m here.
Finally I’ve been up waiting for your video 😍 FYI New On the channel you inspire me so much
Definitely agree. No book is going to be everyone's cup of tea! The goal is that everyone can find something they like to read, no matter the genre or age range. I hate when people scoff at someone else's reading taste!