The music. There's a song that would have been much better, IMO. "Vincent" by Don McLean (yes, the American Pie singer). It would be so very great undercurrent.
I agree that this episode hinges on you caring about Vincent Van Gogh. But I think it does a fantastic job of making you care out him even if you've no knowledge of his life or work. So I think it works anyway.
I actually knew pretty little about him considering his art pretty crude and meh and it's because of this episode that I got to apreciate him as I do now, so yeah, it works
@@lorettoponton7218 the same here. It is interesting how many people in history we only know by their achievements rather than the person themselves. Even though I still don't appreciate Van Gogh's painting's, this episode showed me how to appreciate the man himself.
Oh 100% this epsiode inspired me to research Vincent more and turned him into one of my favourite artists and historical figures. If only we could tell him how loved he would become
I love the sentiment at the end, the idea that good and bad moments don't cancel each other out. I think it's an important and hopeful message for what could be a miserable episode. I think the museum scene with Vincent helps that bittersweet by giving a small victory, however pyhrric
I actually like that we didn't. Not suggesting he wouldn't have done a great job, but I really appreciate that he had a story he wanted to tell, and decided to leave it at that.
I’ll give Neil Gaiman the benefit of the doubt. He was told to write 2 parter, then had his two parter cut to pieces to fit into one part, which he personally disavows saying his entire plot was re-written to be unrecognizable.
This episode is perfection. for a bottle episode that doesn't hinge on being connected to the wider story it's just brilliant. Just the nuance in the depiction of Vincent's battles with mental health and how they handled the story so sensitively and with no jokes or comedy or trivialisation or glamorisation it's just raw and real and I love this episode so much. Have seen the struggles of mental health in my own life from different sides both as a child of parents with depression and also having anxiety with depressive episodes having an episode like that's that just gets what it is like for those battling stuff like this makes me feel so validated. they picked the perfect historical person to depict this story and everything is just beautifully written and acted. I am legit getting emotional just thinking about this episode. I am not exaggerating when I say this episode has helped me so much in my life. Anything less and an S rank is an insult.
That's the funny part. Events changed history, as it were, and Vincent & the Doctor is not properly a bottle episode any more. It's part of the long story of the various battles between the Doctor and Fixed Points that started with Ten and Donna's fateful trip to Pompeii. I made a post that goes into detail - but the summary is as follows. Battling the Fires of Pompeii is where he learned that Fixed Points aren't entirely inviolate. Saving people from the Waters of Mars was where he learned that he didn't set the rules just because he beat the Gallifreyans and Daleks in the Time War. It was Provence, with Vincent, where he tested the idea that a Point being Fixed didn't keep him from being able to _try_ to save people, and that trying to save people was as much a part of who he was as a broken chameleon circuit. The above is a reasonable interpretation of what is. Beyond this is merely what I see. The next Doctor wore the face of the sculptor from Pompeii that Donna begged Ten to save. He eventually tried to figure out why he had picked a face for himself, especially that face. It was Provence. It was when he was the one who liked bow-ties, and he saw the Fixed Point of time that said Vincent Van Gogh will suffer and die and will never know how much love the world would have for him for so long. He changed that. Vincent heard in a magical span of one hundred and eleven words that the world would see what he meant in his paintings and love the man that he was for making them. If there was any other point where the Doctor could have chosen to make his next face the face of Lobus, it wasn't in an episode. He later said that he wore that face to remind himself of the promise of who he was, to hold his future self to the mark of being the Doctor, to save people.
I didn't see the creature (I won't be able to spell it correctly, sorry) as a metaphor for depression, but rather as a metaphor for 'a depressed being'. It's scared, weak and lonely, and because of that it attacks people. I kind of saw the same thing when Vincent screamed at the Doctor. I thought it was a chance for him to connect with something that's like him. But I don't know if that makes sense though
I totally see that too. I always saw it as a parallel to Vincent's story, lost, in pain, and not being seen or listened to. When vincent connects with the creature and finally understands they are the same, I break down every time hahs
To me this is the finest episode of Doctor Who that has ever been made. Certainly one of the most popular, great episodes of all time. The most beloved, Richard Curtis’ portrayal of depression most magnificent. He and Tony Curran transformed the pain of Van Gogh’s tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and magnificence of Van Gogh’s legacy, no one had ever done it before. Perhaps no one ever will again. To my mind, this strange episode from the middle of series 5 is not only Doctor Who’s greatest episode, but also one of the greatest episodes of television ever.
@@corncobbob2326 I did the same thing downthread. I didn't alter anything , I just quoted forty-eight words out of the one hundred and eleven. I just said "The whole episode, explained and discussed in four sentences." The sentiment is the same and still a correct assessment of what is.
as someone who's dealt with depression for a long time, i honestly like the sympathy aspect for the monster. depression isn't an outside force, it's my own mind working against me. i have to look past the fear and the pain, and love myself, care for all the parts of me, even the depression, even when it's working against me. the monster is lashing out because it's scared, it's not doing it on purpose, just like my brain isn't making me depressed on purpose. something just went wrong. my depression is a part of me, and i can hate what it does, how it makes me feel, but hating it at the root is just hating myself, my own mind, and feeding into a terrible loop of self-hatred and pain.
That’s exactly how I feel as well and I understand, also I hope your doing well, and remember to not end your life, continue to accept life, take risks keep moving forward so you won’t get stuck up, because we don’t know there might be miracles in our lives in the future just like Van goh, he passed away thinking he was a miserable failure he didn’t know he inspired lots of people and artists in the future, God had a will for him, his destiny wasn’t finished yet, he didn’t get to see all of the positive things, all he saw was negative, just like mine. And still today I keep motivating myself to keep moving forward and count my blessings and think positively.
I'm writing this response from around the six-minute mark. You hit on something great here. The Doctor isn't trying to break what is undoubtedly a Fixed Point in time, but he _does_ want to save Vincent. Taking Vincent to the museum to hear the words of the curator was a sincere attempt to alter a Fixed Point in time. What began in the Fires of Pompeii with the rescue of Lobus Caecilius, and ended tragically when Captain Adelaide Brooke killed herself in front of the Doctor to protect her granddaughter's role in history during the Waters of Mars, came to its quiet climax in the fields of Provence. The Doctor stood before another Fixed Point. This remarkable man, unique even among the endless joy that was the Doctor's favorite species, was going to suffer horribly, and in suffering would die. No lives would be saved by that death of this gentle soul that the Doctor would be proud to call friend. The Doctor made a sudden choice to try and see how far he could bend this Fixed Point. You saw what he did. "He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty . "Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and magnificence of our world. "No one had ever done it before. "Perhaps no one ever will again." The whole episode, explained and discussed in four sentences. But there is more. The show didn't end here. In "the Girl who Died", the Doctor finally pieces together the fact that he's wearing the face of Lobus Caecillus to remind himself of a promise he made. To hold himself to the mark. When did he make that promise? It wasn't in Pompeii - there he was amazed he hadn't been struck down by Time-Parents or the like. It wasn't after Mars, he thought he was the Time Lord Victorious and could set the rules because he had _personally_ won the Time War. That was the day that he learned that Fixed Points were still bigger than him. No, it was the day he synthesized those views and realized that even if Time was big and he was small, it was worth doing what he did anyway. He tried to save Vincent, got a trivial alteration to a popular painting for his trouble and nothing more, and realized that he was OK with that. Travel far enough in the TARDIS and everyone he had ever saved would be swallowed up by the dark. That did not change the fact that what he did to save people and right wrongs was worthy. He didn't even know yet that a timeline without him would see the darkness fall MUCH SOONER, and it wouldn't have really mattered if he had known. That moment, when he returned to the Musée d'Orsay and comforted a heartbroken Amy, that was when he picked that Roman sculptor's kind eyes and stern brow for his next face. He was the Doctor. He saved people.
Van Gogh wasn't "cured" from depression despite seeing how much people would appreciate him in the future is a perfect way to show how depression really works. If it's bad enough, reasons and logics about your actual value will never win because depression will constantly make you feel bad about yourself. That one moment of feeling truly good about yourself - facts - will never "cure" you from the amount of time you feel bad about yourself - delusion. In the end, depression need to be cured from long time effort and adjusment...
Maybe his tears are relief that people undertand the pain and hurt he felt and they can see it through his eyes, see the beauty but also feel the pain and his innerpain he felt wasn't meaningless, it showed in masterpieces
I was aware of Vincent as an artist growing up but I never really paid him any mind. This episode got me genuinely interested in him as a person and into his artwork. Same goes for the Shakespeare code as a kid. I feel like they wrote Vincent in this episode for the people who were already familiar with him AND for the people who didn't really know who he is. I think it does it beautifully. One of my all time favorite episodes of the Smith era
it's important to remember that real van gogh actually did have someone who cared about him: his brother Theo (as well as Theo's wife Johanna). they provided emotional and financial support for him and Theo was also organising art deals.
"And when no hope was left in sight, On that starry starry night You took your life as loves often do But I could have told you Vincent This world was never meant For one as beautiful as you"
Perhaps the Doctor showing sympathy towards the Krafayis as it dies is meant to represent that you should try to understand your depression rather than force it out.
This was the first episode of Doctor Who I ever saw! I knew literally nothing about the show and I fell in love instantly. Although I was mega confused when I decided to watch the series from the start and all of the actors were different
Well said. I suffer from depression and live in a really beautiful area and people mock and degrade me - "how can you be depressed when you have X, Y and Z. Funnily enough, that doesn't actually make you feel better.
That's so true. It always made me feel worse. Like, "why do I think I have the right to feel so bad?" I hope you are getting some help from somebody more understanding.
I remember the end scene, it was perfect imo. I feel like the CGI alien was overkill, id prefer it to remain invisible so there's a better fear factor. A great metaphor for mental health, music was great too.
I remember liking this episode as a kid but it wasn't until I was older that it became one of my favourites, the scene in the gallery gets me every time
When I first watched this episode I was shocked. Because I thought - especially after the 'Vincent in the museum scene - this would be a 'well we shouldn't change time but we're going to because of emotions' and I was kind of on board with it so finding out that he died anyways made me cry. But after thinking about it it makes more sense that way. If I felt suicidal thoughts and I knew that although my life was a failure I would be remembered because some timetraveler had shown to me that I would still be remembered in the future, I think that could make dying even easier for me, and so it's very realistic to me that Vincent could've made the same choice
When I first watch this episode, I cried for so many reasons but whom ever wrote and directed this episode did a phenomenal job. There were so many messages within this episode as well as showing the audience of how mental health and depression can run a course. This episode spoke so much to my soul it’s uncanny.
Bill Nighy's monologue on how unique and brilliant Vincent was dissolves me into a huge puddle of tears each time. Heck, I only have to think about it (lump in throat right now!) There's a part of me, and I'm sure in many others, who would give everything to be able to talk to Vincent, or any other not- or under-appreciated creative people throughout history (that includes scientists and engineers whose understanding of the natural world and what can be done with it was also misunderstood or ignored), and tell them that they were right. Or vice versa - to be able to tell a monster how wrong they were, but I doubt that would be as pleasurable.
I like the fact that the monster also represents Vincent's art. He could see the world in ways other couldn't. Also, as someone who doesn't really like the song used in the ending with Vincent in the museum, I actually love how it brings that section together.
This episode honestly changed my life so it's always interesting to see other people's reviews. I lost my dad to suicide when I was 16 and the doctors speech about how the bad things in Vincent's life don't make the good unimportant despite his ending was pivitol in how I felt about my dad's death and really helped lift a lot of the guilt and shame I felt.
You basically described my life in a nutshell when you were talking about depression. I been going through it for 12 years, with no sign of it getting any better. This was one of my favourite Doctor Who episodes, because it had a great story and the acting from Tony Curran was awesome.
*What a masterpiece!* 🤩 No matter your thoughts on the Smith era and Series 5, "Vincent & The Doctor" is undeniably phenomenal! Personally, it is my favorite episode of the MOFFAT era as a whole! I will always remember the Doctor's line to Amy at the end: "Every life is a pile of good things and bad things...The good things don't always soften the bad things, but vice-versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things and make them unimportant..."
Obviously the scene where Vincent sees his legacy is powerful, but my biggest take away from this episode has always been the doctor consoling Amy after Vincent still dies by saying it's not just Vincent's end that matters, life is a pile of bad and a pile of good, and even if it still ended in a sad way they gave him some good and that isn't devalued by the end. It's helped me with my own mental health, the idea that a good day is still worth pursuing even without hope it will last. And I reckon it's a comfort to people who has lost loved ones to depression, that it's not all about the end they can still remember the good times they shared.
Yeah honestly this episode is really a brilliant character piece and all the pieces of it fall together so well and effortlessly, too. The CG of the monster isn't great but the benefit this episode has is that it's not visible constantly so isn't too big an impact on the rest of the brilliance going on
As someone who watched the Underworld movies before she started watching Doctor Who, the first time I saw this episode, I thought it was so funny to see Tony Curran hug Bill Nighy in the museum, considering how familiar I was with their conflict as Markus & Viktor (respectively) in Underworld: Evolution (2006). 😆🦇
I love this episode for many of the mentioned reasons. But what stands out to me, is that this is one of the very few episodes that's known and liked by people who don't really know/watch Doctor Who otherwise, especially here in Germany where DW is not much of a thing. It just connects to people so beautifully :)
Very likely he was bipolar too, it’s beautiful representation that he’s not some scary murderer or something but one of the greatest painters in history. I find empowering and relatable
Manic depression is the dated term for bipolar. Though speculation isn't the loveliest thing to do about dead people we can't actually ask, and don't know whether they'd want people to only talk about their illnesses and struggles.
I have to disagree with your point that if you don't know or care about van Gogh you won't get anything out of the episode. I knew only the common knowledge that everyone knows - crazy artist, cut his ear off, quite nice paintings - but this episode touched me deeply and made me feel a personal connection to Vincent in a way I've never felt before or since. More generally I think character studies like this have great educational value when done right; you can go into an episode not knowing who someone is and come out with your phone open to their wikipedia page because you want to know more about them. Course when they're done wrong you get things like "Ooh, you're Ada Lovelace! You're great you are! Anyway," ... yeah I'm still bitter that a historical figure I actually do care about got done so dirty
There is an absolutely beautiful portrait of Vincent that his neighbour produced in pastels. It was named The Misunderstood. The artist who did it was a young woman in training under 4 tutors, one of them being an artist Vincent admired. But she made a massively important statement by calling the painting The Misunderstood" because it meant she could tell. So therefore something about her did understand.
Was anyone else low-key shipping Vincent & Amy in this episode? I know it was a one-off story fling, but it was still really cute tbh, especially when he dedicated the sunflowers to her. And who could forget when they compare hair colors, and the Doctor's sitting the in back feeling jealous about not being ginger. 🥰🌻
@@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose They totally were, and that only further drives in the bittersweet sadness of Rory's death (and Amy being unaware). The fact you're genuinely shipping them (as I'm sure plenty others were) is like, the point. Because we know that could never really happen, as much as we wish it could.
As a Dutchman I'm very honoured to have a decent and thoughtfull episode revolve around Vincent. The only way that scene in the museum, that apperantly couldn't be shot in 'his' museum in Amsterdam, would have been perfect is if 'Vincent' from Don McLean, or a cover version played. And while Tony delivered a heartfelt Vincent, Harry's Moving Media also noted that Vincent is apparently Scottish instead of Dutch, which I kinda agree with. But hey, nice to see that people relate to it. 😃👍
The in-universe reason that he is Scottish is so that he sounds different from the other people around him, as they aren’t Dutch. The TARDIS is trying to demonstrate the different voice to the Doctor and Amy but keeping him understandable and distinct in a way that makes sense. It’s often apparently hyper literal, I assume as the Netherlands is ‘above’ France geographically and Scotland is ‘above’ England it is rendered as Scottish. It’s a bit like how Greek play translations depict different Greek dialects using different English dialects in the text, like Scouse or West Country or Scottish accented speech.
@@richardbourton4523 Allright, thank you for the explanation. That makes enough sense, as Vincent was a Dutchman living in France, so his accent wouldn't go unnoticed. And yes, topography wise France in situated under Holland. So, okay. 🙂👍
It's kind of in Doctor Who lore that the monster in this represents Vincent's depression. But does the fact it's in Doctor Who lore mean we should treat it as such? If we say it feels tonally off to treat it with sympathy since it represents depression, are we in fact constructing a straw man and then attacking it in a misplaced way? What if the monster represents Vincent himself, but how others see and misunderstand him? That would tie in PERFECTLY with the scenes of Vincent being stigmatised as something monstrous by members of the community. It would even tie in with Vincent fighting it, since with depression, one is fighting one's own self-loathing as well as other stuff. The blindness of the monster - that would be courtesy of the depression, which can blind our sense of perception and perspective that grounds us and makes us able to forward in a balanced way. And the monster's death - when seen in this light - amounts to a terrible foreshadowing of the ending of the episode.
Isn't one of the basic rules of time travel NEVER SHOW ANYONE THEIR OWN FUTURE? In THE UNQUIET DEAD, #9 doesn't tell Dickens what happens to him; #10 doesn't tell Shakespeare...And yet, in this case, breaking the rule *works*. And it's emotionally affecting, I'll be the first to admit.
Love this episode so much... I love the bittersweet ending it has, but I'm also partial to those kinds of endings that happen a lot in the Moffat era anyways. I think the kind of formulaic Doctor Who story and the monster-of-the-week really help to allow you to focus on the emotional core of the episode. Instead of a cool new monster fighting for your attention, you've got something you've seen before. It checks that box in the episode and then you can move on and highlight the actual main story. Another good video :) you really spoke from the heart
Great video and your trigger warning was absolutely needed! As someone who is facing depression now for a while, it triggered me and your description of it was so on point! Especially how you menation that you can still smile while being depressed and that it's not permanent but returning. Also, Matt Smith is the master of making sad wise smiles!
This was the episode that got me into Doctor Who. Between Matt Smith’s fun Sherlock-esque take on the Doctor, the honest and authentic portrayal of depression and mental health, and the tragic but hopeful message of trying to add as much good to people’s lives as possible, even if things don’t work out how you hope, I wanted to see more. Definitely an episode worth revisiting
I've struggled with depression since I was 12 and I've watched this episode and this analysis multiple times, but now I just had to stare at the screen, blinking and trying not to cry, because one of the bad phases just started again a few days ago and I literally said to my boyfriend yesterday "I'm just incapable of feeling any joy right now", so yeah, that hit hard. But typing this distracted me xD
Reality is so weird. I’m literally sat looking though glasses at a phone screen displaying a TH-cam video about a TV show that’s a reboot of a TV show, that’s an episode of a series about an artist drawing paintings, based on a real artist who drew real paintings- whilst typing a comment about the video I’m watching. Anyway, great video!
I really like how the story uses the idea of people experiencing their senses and world differently. I don't put my words to speech very well at all in either of my fluent tongues, but when I play music I can say exactly what I mean to. I hear stories in music that has no intended story, and I'll hear blurred words and ethereal speech in instrumental music that I can't quite understand but I somehow feel what it's saying.
Im so glad we got this episode when we did and not with the 13th doctor, imagine her bullshitting about social awkwardness and not helping Vincent. Wouldve been an insult and a half
I loved the use of the Athlete song. Not only is the music just as beautiful and emotional as a Doctor Who score would have been, but the lyrics fit what's going on very well. I actually think a Murray Gold piece would have been _more_ sappy or bombastic than this, and liked that it was a bit different from the usual soundtrack - made it memorable. It's a very tasteful choice imo, unlike that Rosa Parks episode.
Before I get to my main point, I do just want to say that you handled this subject matter beautifully & with all of the respect and tact it deserves, even better than the Doctor Who episode you're critiquing (not to discredit how good it very much is). I appreciate that you even included some personal anecdotal details, because honestly saying "I know what it's like" in a caring and understanding way like that is powerful stuff. Something that stands out to me about both fictional stories like this episode as well as the real historical events and people that fit this trend... as an autistic neurodivergent person, I find many of these stories almost hauntingly relatable - especially reading accounts of what these people were like, and seeing the way they tend to be portrayed in media. There is an inherent relatability to these experiences - being constantly and disastrously misunderstood by almost everyone around you for absolutely no fault of your own, being clueless to what you can do to be heard or understood... for me, it gets to a point where there's practically a glaring neon sign on these figures' faces saying "LOOK AT ME I'M AUTISTIC". Obviously I'm not a doctor and I can't diagnose a person I've never met, and we will never truly know whether these people were autistic or neurodivergent at all. But, being autistic myself & knowing so many other people who can relate to these depictions and historical records pretty much verbatim, it's hard not to theorize if that might have been part of the reason these people were so misunderstood. For those unaware, being neurodivergent is literally a difference in brain chemistry and neurological structure. We are born with a different neurology and this means that we experience things differently, we think and come to understand things differently, and things can affect us in fundamentally different ways. We express ourselves differently, handle stress differently, and different things are obvious or foreign to us - these things are true between ALL people on some level, but the difference in brain chemistry makes these factors even more pronounced in neurodivergents. This applies to people with autism, ADHD, OCD, and more, and it's hard to get much more specific than this because every individual is different! We all have our own unique way of experiencing the world & expressing ourselves, and this comes with a LOT of challenges to survive & adapt to a neurotypical world. So much of society makes a lot of assumptions about other people & has a lot of unwritten rules and expectations about how to communicate, how to speak, what to say and when. This applies throughout all stages of life & exists in all societies and types of relationships. The way Van Gogh is treated by society in this episode really isn't much different from the average life of an autistic kid in US public school, doubly so if they were ever labeled "gifted". Sure, in the episode it's all definitely exaggerated to get the point across within the short runtime & to evoke the powerful feelings in the viewer to help them relate to his struggle, but keep in mind that not all of these hardships manifested as loud angry mobs in real life. It hurts the most in the quiet moments, when someone rudely dismisses you or makes an incorrect assumption & there is nothing you can do to make them understand what you actually meant. What you actually feel. You get put in boxes, judged, criticized, misunderstood, and you're powerless to change it. It just happens. Despite your best efforts to make people happy, to be as convenient and unobtrusive and agreeable as you can, to cooperate and improve and fucking TRY any and every way you can and no matter what you're still treated like you're wrong, and it's your fault. What can you possibly do but start wondering if you're the problem? You start to think you're broken, there's something wrong with you, and it's YOUR FAULT. That's what everyone else thinks, and everyone else agrees with everyone else! This is why it's important for people like us to find others we can relate with. People who listen. People who make an effort to understand, and accept us for our eccentricities and unique challenges. Are willing to trust that what we say is genuine & give us a chance to be our best possible selves. We're human too, after all. We just have a unique set of challenges & strengths, and we tend to get from point A to point B in strange or unexpected ways. But if you give us a chance & help us create a space where we can be our best selves, we are no better or worse than any other person. We're just different, and that's okay. We have to make ourselves heard and be understood in order for the systemic issues with society that are hurting and traumatizing us to change. It's not the direct and purposeful fault of anyone - I'm not trying to guilt trip people - but I simply hope to inform and educate about the kind of experience me and millions of other people have, being a neurodivergent person in a world built by and for neurotypicals. I know I'm definitely reaching a lot here - like I said, we will never truly know if Vincent was autistic. A lot of this has been drawn from my own experiences that vaguely resemble Van Gogh's struggle both in reality and in fiction, I just hope that maybe... someone else will read this, and realize they aren't alone.
Series 5 is one of my favorite series of the new run. I love that it is tonally completely different from everything that came before... And just like all good fairy tales it has a big dip of despair and tragedy. I love Vincent and the Doctor. Even "Chances" does it for me.
Re the music in the reveal scene, I kind of feel that, whether it works or not from other perspectives, it's actually become famous, even iconic, as THE backing music to this scene, perhaps more than it's become anything else culturally significant in its own right. I can't imagine the scene with any other backing music, and whenever I hear or think of this song I can't help but also think of this scene.
I just found your channel and binged the hell out of a lot of your videos. I truly liked finding someone who I feel I can disagree with their opinions without breaking into a scene reminiscent of the knife fight from West Side Story. I was comfortably sitting here burning through video after video until you hit on the description of how someone suffers through depression (approx. 21 min mark) and it brought up so many feelings because your description was spot on and being someone who deals with depression on a daily this episode hit very hard when it premiered and still to this day brings many emotions up to the surface. Thank you for this. I agree I could have done without the chicken beast but it is in this case of a subject being as serious as this is I am willing to give a Moffat a pass for taking a little edge off of what is the definition of a hot button topic fine line.
I just watched this episode a month ago for the first time and as someone who loves art and Vincent Van Gogh I found this episode beautiful in its theme and message.
Id never say it's outright bad I can enjoy it but I've always felt this episode gets entirely too much credit, the dream lord one is the standout of 5 for me personally Edit: You're more likely to be depressed in somewhere like Slough. Preach. This just became my favourite video of yours lol
Holy fuck I started crying when you started talking about the depression at 10:00. I been feeling like this last months, I can tell you it's just like that you might the time of your life but it always comes back and you feel like absolutely like shit and everything stops making sense
This is my favourite Eleventh Doctor episode, and my third-favourite Who story all up. I do agree that the monster-of-the-week aspect is unnecessary and the episode would have been a perfect candidate for New Who's first pure historical. However, I completely disagree with you about the song choice at the end. I think it punctuates the scene perfectly, amplifying the emotion of the scene to even greater heights. To each their own though.
i think you got the ''i know evil when i see it'' part wrong. What the Doctor sees in the painting is Vincents interpretation of the creature and HE did see it as evil so that is what the Doctor gets from the image created.
The music is so good, mixed with the acting, the fun, the darkness, the creative monsters, the running. This episode is iconic doctor who Oh yeah, and the time travel
I think the thing this episode landed better than a lot of others was sticking the theme. The messages about mental illness could have been so badly mangled and I'm so glad that they kept their theme together on that.
I really question the need for the monster at all in this episode. Why not just have a Doctor Who story where they visit a historical figure and that be it? Visiting Vincent, exploring his character and his life's struggles and having an emotional pay-off at the end is a perfectly self-contained story. No giant alien chickens required.
I would love to see an official collab between Doctor who and Pokemon where they go to some planet or future where Pokemon exist and do typical Doctor who shenanigans, maybe with a new story specific Pokemon introduced that is some planet destroying American payphone.
I love the line that they always have the ability to cast the perfect actors for the historical roles. After seeing Newton and The Beatles, it looks like that era is done.
I like this, it kinda fits in Grimm, the tv show, the explanation in that show why he was mad is because he could see the wessen and no one else could, so the fact he can the this alien is a good, not tie in, or nod to each other, but, it just fits kinda
Your description of depression is the most accurate depiction of what it feels like that I've ever heard. I'll be trying to remember the key points of it the next time I'm talking to the curious.
I have used the clip of Bill Nighy's speech to help van Gogh fans become Doctor Who fans and DW fans become van Gogh fans. But the speech the Doctor gives Amy about good things and bad things--that I quote literally every day. It's the signature line on my email. Best. Episode. Ever.
I know this was uploaded a year ago but I've not watched it until now. This is my favorite iteration of Dr Who and Any is my favorite sidekick. Vincent and the Dr, as well as, The Girl in the Fireplace are my two favorite episodes. (I realize it's a different iteration of Dr Who)
A year before he was born, Vincent's brother died at birth, and was buried in the family plot, near the wrought iron fence. His parents had re-used the name "Vincent" when he was born a year later, to walk past that gravestone with his own name and birthday on it, every day he walked to school.
Here's my only criticism about this episode: If they (Moffat and producers) wanted to make this episode so historically accurate, then why didn't Vincent have one ear? This is because in December 1888, he chopped off his own left ear when he had a tantrum with Paul Gauguin. And remember, this episode was set in 1890 so therefore they should have shown his left ear gone.
Although everyone loves the idea of the ear being cut off, I do believe it is a misunderstanding throughout history that it was his entire ear which was cut off. If I'm not mistaken, it was only part of his earlobe which he cut off. But I do think in both cases the answer is that is was easier to ignore that detail in the show.
Say what you will about this episode, but Vincent's theme is such a beautiful, little piece of music. Murray Gold really knocked it out of the park with this episode's score.
you can affect past ( if time machine would exists) but you cant rewrite it. coz that changes everything, vincent van gogh was so good just coz he in his own time he was no one, isolated, mentaly ill ( more you dig into his life it becomes obvious he suffered from some kind of bipolar, his best pieces were done when he was either deeply depressed or manic, even cuting his ear was during manic phase), he was an ancholic, most of bipolar people struggel with some kind of addiction.. he literaly was so good, coz he was no one, rejected, made fun off, wich actually fuled his depression and his art, the pain he felt was the fuel to his art.
I don't care that when I look at Vincent I see the Irish mob boss from Daredevil. Every time I see the bit at the end in the French art gallery I cry my eyes out (but yeah I agree it'd be a lot better without the pop song soundtrack)
What if.... There is a theory that Vincent didn't actually commit suicide. Two teenaged boys were playing in a field he was painting on. One of the boys had a pistol and for whatever reason, it went off, hitting Vincent in the torso. Not wanting to implicate the boys and ruin their lives in a French prison, he claimed he shot himself. It was a small caliber pistol and the bullet took a couple of days to kill him. In 2014, a review of the forensic evidence revealed that Vincent did not sustain any powder burns. The angle of the bullet wound also suggested that Vincent could not have been holding the gun (it would have been at an oblique angle if he was) but rather someone else was holding it. One of Vincent's final words to Theo was "Do not accuse anybody. It is I that wished to [do this]," as if fearing that Theo and the police might go looking for the suspects. But then, since this Doctor Who episode is historical fact, we can also contend that Vincent welcomed his death knowing that he will never be forgotten.
Just a small idea but the Doctor's staring at Van Gogh sadly because he knows will still die kind of reminds me his staring at Donna when he has to wipe his mind
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The music. There's a song that would have been much better, IMO. "Vincent" by Don McLean (yes, the American Pie singer). It would be so very great undercurrent.
I agree that this episode hinges on you caring about Vincent Van Gogh.
But I think it does a fantastic job of making you care out him even if you've no knowledge of his life or work. So I think it works anyway.
I Know, right? Like… that’s a character study!
I actually knew pretty little about him considering his art pretty crude and meh and it's because of this episode that I got to apreciate him as I do now, so yeah, it works
@@lorettoponton7218 the same here. It is interesting how many people in history we only know by their achievements rather than the person themselves. Even though I still don't appreciate Van Gogh's painting's, this episode showed me how to appreciate the man himself.
Oh 100% this epsiode inspired me to research Vincent more and turned him into one of my favourite artists and historical figures. If only we could tell him how loved he would become
I love the sentiment at the end, the idea that good and bad moments don't cancel each other out. I think it's an important and hopeful message for what could be a miserable episode. I think the museum scene with Vincent helps that bittersweet by giving a small victory, however pyhrric
Shame we never got more from Richard Curtis for Doctor Who. As a one off story he did a fantastic job.
I actually like that we didn't. Not suggesting he wouldn't have done a great job, but I really appreciate that he had a story he wanted to tell, and decided to leave it at that.
@@loanser Neil Gaiman showed us what could happen
@@Gengu i thought nightmare in silver was okay. Definitely no Cyber Two parter, but a fun little one off story for the amusement park and the kids
I’ll give Neil Gaiman the benefit of the doubt. He was told to write 2 parter, then had his two parter cut to pieces to fit into one part, which he personally disavows saying his entire plot was re-written to be unrecognizable.
This episode is perfection. for a bottle episode that doesn't hinge on being connected to the wider story it's just brilliant. Just the nuance in the depiction of Vincent's battles with mental health and how they handled the story so sensitively and with no jokes or comedy or trivialisation or glamorisation it's just raw and real and I love this episode so much. Have seen the struggles of mental health in my own life from different sides both as a child of parents with depression and also having anxiety with depressive episodes having an episode like that's that just gets what it is like for those battling stuff like this makes me feel so validated. they picked the perfect historical person to depict this story and everything is just beautifully written and acted. I am legit getting emotional just thinking about this episode. I am not exaggerating when I say this episode has helped me so much in my life. Anything less and an S rank is an insult.
That's the funny part. Events changed history, as it were, and Vincent & the Doctor is not properly a bottle episode any more.
It's part of the long story of the various battles between the Doctor and Fixed Points that started with Ten and Donna's fateful trip to Pompeii. I made a post that goes into detail - but the summary is as follows. Battling the Fires of Pompeii is where he learned that Fixed Points aren't entirely inviolate. Saving people from the Waters of Mars was where he learned that he didn't set the rules just because he beat the Gallifreyans and Daleks in the Time War. It was Provence, with Vincent, where he tested the idea that a Point being Fixed didn't keep him from being able to _try_ to save people, and that trying to save people was as much a part of who he was as a broken chameleon circuit.
The above is a reasonable interpretation of what is. Beyond this is merely what I see. The next Doctor wore the face of the sculptor from Pompeii that Donna begged Ten to save. He eventually tried to figure out why he had picked a face for himself, especially that face. It was Provence. It was when he was the one who liked bow-ties, and he saw the Fixed Point of time that said Vincent Van Gogh will suffer and die and will never know how much love the world would have for him for so long. He changed that. Vincent heard in a magical span of one hundred and eleven words that the world would see what he meant in his paintings and love the man that he was for making them.
If there was any other point where the Doctor could have chosen to make his next face the face of Lobus, it wasn't in an episode. He later said that he wore that face to remind himself of the promise of who he was, to hold his future self to the mark of being the Doctor, to save people.
"Depression is a giant alien chicken" - Doctor Who
I read that as despero for a minuet I thought "no that's Vincent van Goh dear"
Ngl imagining depression as just a giant alien chicken kinda helps 😂
I didn't see the creature (I won't be able to spell it correctly, sorry) as a metaphor for depression, but rather as a metaphor for 'a depressed being'. It's scared, weak and lonely, and because of that it attacks people. I kind of saw the same thing when Vincent screamed at the Doctor. I thought it was a chance for him to connect with something that's like him. But I don't know if that makes sense though
I totally see that too. I always saw it as a parallel to Vincent's story, lost, in pain, and not being seen or listened to. When vincent connects with the creature and finally understands they are the same, I break down every time hahs
You make perfect sense, Lisa.
@@VeracityLH I agree. 💖💖
To me this is the finest episode of Doctor Who that has ever been made. Certainly one of the most popular, great episodes of all time. The most beloved, Richard Curtis’ portrayal of depression most magnificent. He and Tony Curran transformed the pain of Van Gogh’s tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and magnificence of Van Gogh’s legacy, no one had ever done it before. Perhaps no one ever will again. To my mind, this strange episode from the middle of series 5 is not only Doctor Who’s greatest episode, but also one of the greatest episodes of television ever.
Clever and very true
😭💔💔
@@melportolan5653 clever how? referencing the glasses guy appreciating Van Gogh?
I completely agree! The most moving of all episodes. Loved it.
@@corncobbob2326 I did the same thing downthread. I didn't alter anything , I just quoted forty-eight words out of the one hundred and eleven. I just said "The whole episode, explained and discussed in four sentences." The sentiment is the same and still a correct assessment of what is.
as someone who's dealt with depression for a long time, i honestly like the sympathy aspect for the monster. depression isn't an outside force, it's my own mind working against me. i have to look past the fear and the pain, and love myself, care for all the parts of me, even the depression, even when it's working against me. the monster is lashing out because it's scared, it's not doing it on purpose, just like my brain isn't making me depressed on purpose. something just went wrong. my depression is a part of me, and i can hate what it does, how it makes me feel, but hating it at the root is just hating myself, my own mind, and feeding into a terrible loop of self-hatred and pain.
Absolutely. It's about radical acceptance, and the more I fight against it the more worn down and isolated I feel. Like Vincent
That’s exactly how I feel as well and I understand, also I hope your doing well, and remember to not end your life, continue to accept life, take risks keep moving forward so you won’t get stuck up, because we don’t know there might be miracles in our lives in the future just like Van goh, he passed away thinking he was a miserable failure he didn’t know he inspired lots of people and artists in the future, God had a will for him, his destiny wasn’t finished yet, he didn’t get to see all of the positive things, all he saw was negative, just like mine. And still today I keep motivating myself to keep moving forward and count my blessings and think positively.
I'm writing this response from around the six-minute mark. You hit on something great here. The Doctor isn't trying to break what is undoubtedly a Fixed Point in time, but he _does_ want to save Vincent. Taking Vincent to the museum to hear the words of the curator was a sincere attempt to alter a Fixed Point in time.
What began in the Fires of Pompeii with the rescue of Lobus Caecilius, and ended tragically when Captain Adelaide Brooke killed herself in front of the Doctor to protect her granddaughter's role in history during the Waters of Mars, came to its quiet climax in the fields of Provence. The Doctor stood before another Fixed Point. This remarkable man, unique even among the endless joy that was the Doctor's favorite species, was going to suffer horribly, and in suffering would die. No lives would be saved by that death of this gentle soul that the Doctor would be proud to call friend.
The Doctor made a sudden choice to try and see how far he could bend this Fixed Point. You saw what he did.
"He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty
.
"Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and magnificence of our world.
"No one had ever done it before.
"Perhaps no one ever will again."
The whole episode, explained and discussed in four sentences. But there is more. The show didn't end here.
In "the Girl who Died", the Doctor finally pieces together the fact that he's wearing the face of Lobus Caecillus to remind himself of a promise he made. To hold himself to the mark. When did he make that promise? It wasn't in Pompeii - there he was amazed he hadn't been struck down by Time-Parents or the like. It wasn't after Mars, he thought he was the Time Lord Victorious and could set the rules because he had _personally_ won the Time War. That was the day that he learned that Fixed Points were still bigger than him. No, it was the day he synthesized those views and realized that even if Time was big and he was small, it was worth doing what he did anyway. He tried to save Vincent, got a trivial alteration to a popular painting for his trouble and nothing more, and realized that he was OK with that.
Travel far enough in the TARDIS and everyone he had ever saved would be swallowed up by the dark. That did not change the fact that what he did to save people and right wrongs was worthy. He didn't even know yet that a timeline without him would see the darkness fall MUCH SOONER, and it wouldn't have really mattered if he had known. That moment, when he returned to the Musée d'Orsay and comforted a heartbroken Amy, that was when he picked that Roman sculptor's kind eyes and stern brow for his next face. He was the Doctor. He saved people.
Van Gogh wasn't "cured" from depression despite seeing how much people would appreciate him in the future is a perfect way to show how depression really works. If it's bad enough, reasons and logics about your actual value will never win because depression will constantly make you feel bad about yourself. That one moment of feeling truly good about yourself - facts - will never "cure" you from the amount of time you feel bad about yourself - delusion. In the end, depression need to be cured from long time effort and adjusment...
Delusion?
Maybe his tears are relief that people undertand the pain and hurt he felt and they can see it through his eyes, see the beauty but also feel the pain and his innerpain he felt wasn't meaningless, it showed in masterpieces
I was aware of Vincent as an artist growing up but I never really paid him any mind. This episode got me genuinely interested in him as a person and into his artwork. Same goes for the Shakespeare code as a kid. I feel like they wrote Vincent in this episode for the people who were already familiar with him AND for the people who didn't really know who he is. I think it does it beautifully. One of my all time favorite episodes of the Smith era
it's important to remember that real van gogh actually did have someone who cared about him: his brother Theo (as well as Theo's wife Johanna). they provided emotional and financial support for him and Theo was also organising art deals.
His sister-in-law is how, I believe, his paintings were preserved.
@@Comicbroe405 yes, i believe so
"And when no hope was left in sight,
On that starry starry night
You took your life as loves often do
But I could have told you Vincent
This world was never meant
For one as beautiful as you"
Perhaps the Doctor showing sympathy towards the Krafayis as it dies is meant to represent that you should try to understand your depression rather than force it out.
Not gonna lie, the way you have described this beautiful story, brought a slight tear to my eye. Another fantastic video Harbo.❤
This was the first episode of Doctor Who I ever saw! I knew literally nothing about the show and I fell in love instantly.
Although I was mega confused when I decided to watch the series from the start and all of the actors were different
You lucky person. I envy you.
Well said. I suffer from depression and live in a really beautiful area and people mock and degrade me - "how can you be depressed when you have X, Y and Z.
Funnily enough, that doesn't actually make you feel better.
That's so true. It always made me feel worse. Like, "why do I think I have the right to feel so bad?"
I hope you are getting some help from somebody more understanding.
Agreed
I remember the end scene, it was perfect imo. I feel like the CGI alien was overkill, id prefer it to remain invisible so there's a better fear factor. A great metaphor for mental health, music was great too.
I remember liking this episode as a kid but it wasn't until I was older that it became one of my favourites, the scene in the gallery gets me every time
When I first watched this episode I was shocked. Because I thought - especially after the 'Vincent in the museum scene - this would be a 'well we shouldn't change time but we're going to because of emotions' and I was kind of on board with it so finding out that he died anyways made me cry. But after thinking about it it makes more sense that way. If I felt suicidal thoughts and I knew that although my life was a failure I would be remembered because some timetraveler had shown to me that I would still be remembered in the future, I think that could make dying even easier for me, and so it's very realistic to me that Vincent could've made the same choice
The way I see it, it's that simply getting an encouraging words, while it might make you feel better in the short run, isn't enough. He was still ill.
When I first watch this episode, I cried for so many reasons but whom ever wrote and directed this episode did a phenomenal job. There were so many messages within this episode as well as showing the audience of how mental health and depression can run a course. This episode spoke so much to my soul it’s uncanny.
Bill Nighy's monologue on how unique and brilliant Vincent was dissolves me into a huge puddle of tears each time. Heck, I only have to think about it (lump in throat right now!)
There's a part of me, and I'm sure in many others, who would give everything to be able to talk to Vincent, or any other not- or under-appreciated creative people throughout history (that includes scientists and engineers whose understanding of the natural world and what can be done with it was also misunderstood or ignored), and tell them that they were right. Or vice versa - to be able to tell a monster how wrong they were, but I doubt that would be as pleasurable.
I like the fact that the monster also represents Vincent's art. He could see the world in ways other couldn't.
Also, as someone who doesn't really like the song used in the ending with Vincent in the museum, I actually love how it brings that section together.
This episode honestly changed my life so it's always interesting to see other people's reviews.
I lost my dad to suicide when I was 16 and the doctors speech about how the bad things in Vincent's life don't make the good unimportant despite his ending was pivitol in how I felt about my dad's death and really helped lift a lot of the guilt and shame I felt.
You basically described my life in a nutshell when you were talking about depression. I been going through it for 12 years, with no sign of it getting any better.
This was one of my favourite Doctor Who episodes, because it had a great story and the acting from Tony Curran was awesome.
*What a masterpiece!* 🤩
No matter your thoughts on the Smith era and Series 5, "Vincent & The Doctor" is undeniably phenomenal! Personally, it is my favorite episode of the MOFFAT era as a whole! I will always remember the Doctor's line to Amy at the end:
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things...The good things don't always soften the bad things, but vice-versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things and make them unimportant..."
Obviously the scene where Vincent sees his legacy is powerful, but my biggest take away from this episode has always been the doctor consoling Amy after Vincent still dies by saying it's not just Vincent's end that matters, life is a pile of bad and a pile of good, and even if it still ended in a sad way they gave him some good and that isn't devalued by the end. It's helped me with my own mental health, the idea that a good day is still worth pursuing even without hope it will last. And I reckon it's a comfort to people who has lost loved ones to depression, that it's not all about the end they can still remember the good times they shared.
This is up there in my top10 DW episodes. Always brings tears to my eyes. This is how you make an episode with a real historical person.
Yeah honestly this episode is really a brilliant character piece and all the pieces of it fall together so well and effortlessly, too. The CG of the monster isn't great but the benefit this episode has is that it's not visible constantly so isn't too big an impact on the rest of the brilliance going on
As someone who watched the Underworld movies before she started watching Doctor Who, the first time I saw this episode, I thought it was so funny to see Tony Curran hug Bill Nighy in the museum, considering how familiar I was with their conflict as Markus & Viktor (respectively) in Underworld: Evolution (2006). 😆🦇
I haven't watched since series 8, I still come back to the Vincent episode every few months. The final scene always brings me to tears :'(
I love this episode for many of the mentioned reasons.
But what stands out to me, is that this is one of the very few episodes that's known and liked by people who don't really know/watch Doctor Who otherwise, especially here in Germany where DW is not much of a thing.
It just connects to people so beautifully :)
Very likely he was bipolar too, it’s beautiful representation that he’s not some scary murderer or something but one of the greatest painters in history. I find empowering and relatable
Manic depression is the dated term for bipolar. Though speculation isn't the loveliest thing to do about dead people we can't actually ask, and don't know whether they'd want people to only talk about their illnesses and struggles.
I have to disagree with your point that if you don't know or care about van Gogh you won't get anything out of the episode. I knew only the common knowledge that everyone knows - crazy artist, cut his ear off, quite nice paintings - but this episode touched me deeply and made me feel a personal connection to Vincent in a way I've never felt before or since. More generally I think character studies like this have great educational value when done right; you can go into an episode not knowing who someone is and come out with your phone open to their wikipedia page because you want to know more about them. Course when they're done wrong you get things like "Ooh, you're Ada Lovelace! You're great you are! Anyway," ... yeah I'm still bitter that a historical figure I actually do care about got done so dirty
There is an absolutely beautiful portrait of Vincent that his neighbour produced in pastels. It was named The Misunderstood. The artist who did it was a young woman in training under 4 tutors, one of them being an artist Vincent admired. But she made a massively important statement by calling the painting The Misunderstood" because it meant she could tell. So therefore something about her did understand.
Was anyone else low-key shipping Vincent & Amy in this episode? I know it was a one-off story fling, but it was still really cute tbh, especially when he dedicated the sunflowers to her. And who could forget when they compare hair colors, and the Doctor's sitting the in back feeling jealous about not being ginger. 🥰🌻
I think the idea of pushing the Vincent and Amy relationship was supposed to emphasise the sadness of Amy losing Rory and forgetting him!
@@alicesophie123 Oh I'm sure it was, I'm just saying: the moments given to them were pretty adorable. ✨
@@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose They totally were, and that only further drives in the bittersweet sadness of Rory's death (and Amy being unaware). The fact you're genuinely shipping them (as I'm sure plenty others were) is like, the point.
Because we know that could never really happen, as much as we wish it could.
As a Dutchman I'm very honoured to have a decent and thoughtfull episode revolve around Vincent. The only way that scene in the museum, that apperantly couldn't be shot in 'his' museum in Amsterdam, would have been perfect is if 'Vincent' from Don McLean, or a cover version played. And while Tony delivered a heartfelt Vincent, Harry's Moving Media also noted that Vincent is apparently Scottish instead of Dutch, which I kinda agree with. But hey, nice to see that people relate to it. 😃👍
The in-universe reason that he is Scottish is so that he sounds different from the other people around him, as they aren’t Dutch. The TARDIS is trying to demonstrate the different voice to the Doctor and Amy but keeping him understandable and distinct in a way that makes sense. It’s often apparently hyper literal, I assume as the Netherlands is ‘above’ France geographically and Scotland is ‘above’ England it is rendered as Scottish. It’s a bit like how Greek play translations depict different Greek dialects using different English dialects in the text, like Scouse or West Country or Scottish accented speech.
@@richardbourton4523 Allright, thank you for the explanation. That makes enough sense, as Vincent was a Dutchman living in France, so his accent wouldn't go unnoticed. And yes, topography wise France in situated under Holland. So, okay. 🙂👍
It's kind of in Doctor Who lore that the monster in this represents Vincent's depression. But does the fact it's in Doctor Who lore mean we should treat it as such? If we say it feels tonally off to treat it with sympathy since it represents depression, are we in fact constructing a straw man and then attacking it in a misplaced way? What if the monster represents Vincent himself, but how others see and misunderstand him? That would tie in PERFECTLY with the scenes of Vincent being stigmatised as something monstrous by members of the community. It would even tie in with Vincent fighting it, since with depression, one is fighting one's own self-loathing as well as other stuff. The blindness of the monster - that would be courtesy of the depression, which can blind our sense of perception and perspective that grounds us and makes us able to forward in a balanced way. And the monster's death - when seen in this light - amounts to a terrible foreshadowing of the ending of the episode.
Isn't one of the basic rules of time travel NEVER SHOW ANYONE THEIR OWN FUTURE? In THE UNQUIET DEAD, #9 doesn't tell Dickens what happens to him; #10 doesn't tell Shakespeare...And yet, in this case, breaking the rule *works*. And it's emotionally affecting, I'll be the first to admit.
Love this episode so much... I love the bittersweet ending it has, but I'm also partial to those kinds of endings that happen a lot in the Moffat era anyways. I think the kind of formulaic Doctor Who story and the monster-of-the-week really help to allow you to focus on the emotional core of the episode. Instead of a cool new monster fighting for your attention, you've got something you've seen before. It checks that box in the episode and then you can move on and highlight the actual main story. Another good video :) you really spoke from the heart
Great video and your trigger warning was absolutely needed! As someone who is facing depression now for a while, it triggered me and your description of it was so on point! Especially how you menation that you can still smile while being depressed and that it's not permanent but returning.
Also, Matt Smith is the master of making sad wise smiles!
This was the episode that got me into Doctor Who. Between Matt Smith’s fun Sherlock-esque take on the Doctor, the honest and authentic portrayal of depression and mental health, and the tragic but hopeful message of trying to add as much good to people’s lives as possible, even if things don’t work out how you hope, I wanted to see more. Definitely an episode worth revisiting
I've struggled with depression since I was 12 and I've watched this episode and this analysis multiple times, but now I just had to stare at the screen, blinking and trying not to cry, because one of the bad phases just started again a few days ago and I literally said to my boyfriend yesterday "I'm just incapable of feeling any joy right now", so yeah, that hit hard. But typing this distracted me xD
Bring the tissues.
It’s time to cry again
that last scene tho
Reality is so weird.
I’m literally sat looking though glasses at a phone screen displaying a TH-cam video about a TV show that’s a reboot of a TV show, that’s an episode of a series about an artist drawing paintings, based on a real artist who drew real paintings- whilst typing a comment about the video I’m watching.
Anyway, great video!
I really like how the story uses the idea of people experiencing their senses and world differently. I don't put my words to speech very well at all in either of my fluent tongues, but when I play music I can say exactly what I mean to. I hear stories in music that has no intended story, and I'll hear blurred words and ethereal speech in instrumental music that I can't quite understand but I somehow feel what it's saying.
Im so glad we got this episode when we did and not with the 13th doctor, imagine her bullshitting about social awkwardness and not helping Vincent. Wouldve been an insult and a half
Ugh, don't even think about it, what an awfull picture
This episode was crap and if it aired in the Chibnall era people like you would be complaining that it’s just The BBC lecturing us on mental health
The ending part always brings a tear to my eyes Vincent finding out his pictures are loved
I loved the use of the Athlete song. Not only is the music just as beautiful and emotional as a Doctor Who score would have been, but the lyrics fit what's going on very well. I actually think a Murray Gold piece would have been _more_ sappy or bombastic than this, and liked that it was a bit different from the usual soundtrack - made it memorable. It's a very tasteful choice imo, unlike that Rosa Parks episode.
And what's wrong with the Rosa parks one
Before I get to my main point, I do just want to say that you handled this subject matter beautifully & with all of the respect and tact it deserves, even better than the Doctor Who episode you're critiquing (not to discredit how good it very much is). I appreciate that you even included some personal anecdotal details, because honestly saying "I know what it's like" in a caring and understanding way like that is powerful stuff.
Something that stands out to me about both fictional stories like this episode as well as the real historical events and people that fit this trend... as an autistic neurodivergent person, I find many of these stories almost hauntingly relatable - especially reading accounts of what these people were like, and seeing the way they tend to be portrayed in media. There is an inherent relatability to these experiences - being constantly and disastrously misunderstood by almost everyone around you for absolutely no fault of your own, being clueless to what you can do to be heard or understood... for me, it gets to a point where there's practically a glaring neon sign on these figures' faces saying "LOOK AT ME I'M AUTISTIC".
Obviously I'm not a doctor and I can't diagnose a person I've never met, and we will never truly know whether these people were autistic or neurodivergent at all. But, being autistic myself & knowing so many other people who can relate to these depictions and historical records pretty much verbatim, it's hard not to theorize if that might have been part of the reason these people were so misunderstood. For those unaware, being neurodivergent is literally a difference in brain chemistry and neurological structure. We are born with a different neurology and this means that we experience things differently, we think and come to understand things differently, and things can affect us in fundamentally different ways. We express ourselves differently, handle stress differently, and different things are obvious or foreign to us - these things are true between ALL people on some level, but the difference in brain chemistry makes these factors even more pronounced in neurodivergents. This applies to people with autism, ADHD, OCD, and more, and it's hard to get much more specific than this because every individual is different! We all have our own unique way of experiencing the world & expressing ourselves, and this comes with a LOT of challenges to survive & adapt to a neurotypical world. So much of society makes a lot of assumptions about other people & has a lot of unwritten rules and expectations about how to communicate, how to speak, what to say and when. This applies throughout all stages of life & exists in all societies and types of relationships.
The way Van Gogh is treated by society in this episode really isn't much different from the average life of an autistic kid in US public school, doubly so if they were ever labeled "gifted".
Sure, in the episode it's all definitely exaggerated to get the point across within the short runtime & to evoke the powerful feelings in the viewer to help them relate to his struggle, but keep in mind that not all of these hardships manifested as loud angry mobs in real life. It hurts the most in the quiet moments, when someone rudely dismisses you or makes an incorrect assumption & there is nothing you can do to make them understand what you actually meant. What you actually feel. You get put in boxes, judged, criticized, misunderstood, and you're powerless to change it. It just happens. Despite your best efforts to make people happy, to be as convenient and unobtrusive and agreeable as you can, to cooperate and improve and fucking TRY any and every way you can
and no matter what
you're still treated like you're wrong, and it's your fault.
What can you possibly do but start wondering if you're the problem? You start to think you're broken, there's something wrong with you, and it's YOUR FAULT. That's what everyone else thinks, and everyone else agrees with everyone else!
This is why it's important for people like us to find others we can relate with. People who listen. People who make an effort to understand, and accept us for our eccentricities and unique challenges. Are willing to trust that what we say is genuine & give us a chance to be our best possible selves. We're human too, after all. We just have a unique set of challenges & strengths, and we tend to get from point A to point B in strange or unexpected ways. But if you give us a chance & help us create a space where we can be our best selves, we are no better or worse than any other person. We're just different, and that's okay.
We have to make ourselves heard and be understood in order for the systemic issues with society that are hurting and traumatizing us to change. It's not the direct and purposeful fault of anyone - I'm not trying to guilt trip people - but I simply hope to inform and educate about the kind of experience me and millions of other people have, being a neurodivergent person in a world built by and for neurotypicals.
I know I'm definitely reaching a lot here - like I said, we will never truly know if Vincent was autistic. A lot of this has been drawn from my own experiences that vaguely resemble Van Gogh's struggle both in reality and in fiction, I just hope that maybe... someone else will read this, and realize they aren't alone.
This comment is criminally underrated
This comment is so true and powerful in itself thank you.
Series 5 is one of my favorite series of the new run. I love that it is tonally completely different from everything that came before... And just like all good fairy tales it has a big dip of despair and tragedy.
I love Vincent and the Doctor. Even "Chances" does it for me.
Re the music in the reveal scene, I kind of feel that, whether it works or not from other perspectives, it's actually become famous, even iconic, as THE backing music to this scene, perhaps more than it's become anything else culturally significant in its own right. I can't imagine the scene with any other backing music, and whenever I hear or think of this song I can't help but also think of this scene.
OF COURSE this is the episode we reach the week we see Tony Curran debut as Despero on The Flash’s Armageddon event. Fantastic
I just found your channel and binged the hell out of a lot of your videos. I truly liked finding someone who I feel I can disagree with their opinions without breaking into a scene reminiscent of the knife fight from West Side Story. I was comfortably sitting here burning through video after video until you hit on the description of how someone suffers through depression (approx. 21 min mark) and it brought up so many feelings because your description was spot on and being someone who deals with depression on a daily this episode hit very hard when it premiered and still to this day brings many emotions up to the surface. Thank you for this. I agree I could have done without the chicken beast but it is in this case of a subject being as serious as this is I am willing to give a Moffat a pass for taking a little edge off of what is the definition of a hot button topic fine line.
I just watched this episode a month ago for the first time and as someone who loves art and Vincent Van Gogh I found this episode beautiful in its theme and message.
The Doctor: I can tell evil when I see it
Also the Doctor: It was just a scared animal, OOPSIE
Tony Curran utterly made this episode. I can only watch it once every few years, and I cry every time.
Id never say it's outright bad I can enjoy it but I've always felt this episode gets entirely too much credit, the dream lord one is the standout of 5 for me personally
Edit: You're more likely to be depressed in somewhere like Slough. Preach. This just became my favourite video of yours lol
Loved this episode and the emotional music at the end used for the gallery scene, love the next episode too for multiple reasons
Greatest use of a time machine in all of science fiction: to show Vincent van Gogh his legacy
Holy fuck I started crying when you started talking about the depression at 10:00. I been feeling like this last months, I can tell you it's just like that you might the time of your life but it always comes back and you feel like absolutely like shit and everything stops making sense
If this episode didn't get an S ranking I don't see how any from this series can
Yes I agree. S for shit
@@justsomerandomguyonline1144 “I’m not like other girls”
This is my favourite Eleventh Doctor episode, and my third-favourite Who story all up. I do agree that the monster-of-the-week aspect is unnecessary and the episode would have been a perfect candidate for New Who's first pure historical. However, I completely disagree with you about the song choice at the end. I think it punctuates the scene perfectly, amplifying the emotion of the scene to even greater heights. To each their own though.
i think you got the ''i know evil when i see it'' part wrong. What the Doctor sees in the painting is Vincents interpretation of the creature and HE did see it as evil so that is what the Doctor gets from the image created.
The music is so good, mixed with the acting, the fun, the darkness, the creative monsters, the running. This episode is iconic doctor who
Oh yeah, and the time travel
One of your best episode breakdowns yet Harbo, thanks for your clarity and care (and ofc, puns!) with this one
That ending every goddamn time 😭😭😭
I think the thing this episode landed better than a lot of others was sticking the theme. The messages about mental illness could have been so badly mangled and I'm so glad that they kept their theme together on that.
I really question the need for the monster at all in this episode. Why not just have a Doctor Who story where they visit a historical figure and that be it? Visiting Vincent, exploring his character and his life's struggles and having an emotional pay-off at the end is a perfectly self-contained story. No giant alien chickens required.
they did with the original, go check out the first doctor, but yes, this could have worked perfectly without the monster
I would love to see an official collab between Doctor who and Pokemon where they go to some planet or future where Pokemon exist and do typical Doctor who shenanigans, maybe with a new story specific Pokemon introduced that is some planet destroying American payphone.
I love the line that they always have the ability to cast the perfect actors for the historical roles. After seeing Newton and The Beatles, it looks like that era is done.
And this episode became number 2 on Doctor Who Magazine’s 60th eleventh Doctor poll, if I’m not mistaken. Very well deserved.
I like this, it kinda fits in Grimm, the tv show, the explanation in that show why he was mad is because he could see the wessen and no one else could, so the fact he can the this alien is a good, not tie in, or nod to each other, but, it just fits kinda
The only problem I have with this episode is showing a physical monster, would’ve been much better keeping it in the mind of Vincent
Oh no. The Lodger is one of my favourite episodes. Not gonna be too happy with it being torn apart.
Your description of depression is the most accurate depiction of what it feels like that I've ever heard. I'll be trying to remember the key points of it the next time I'm talking to the curious.
I have used the clip of Bill Nighy's speech to help van Gogh fans become Doctor Who fans and DW fans become van Gogh fans. But the speech the Doctor gives Amy about good things and bad things--that I quote literally every day. It's the signature line on my email. Best. Episode. Ever.
Depression can warp ouur thinking: bad choices, silly choices, ineffective -- and the whole time we thing we're doing well.
I know this was uploaded a year ago but I've not watched it until now. This is my favorite iteration of Dr Who and Any is my favorite sidekick. Vincent and the Dr, as well as, The Girl in the Fireplace are my two favorite episodes. (I realize it's a different iteration of Dr Who)
You just explained my depression to a T. Wow, nobody has ever hit it on the head like that with me. Maybe that's why I love Vincent Vangoghs so much.
One thing about depression; it can also come across as rage. So if you feel a lot rage you can't explain, just talk to people,.
Depression *I AM INEVITABLE*
A year before he was born, Vincent's brother died at birth, and was buried in the family plot, near the wrought iron fence. His parents had re-used the name "Vincent" when he was born a year later, to walk past that gravestone with his own name and birthday on it, every day he walked to school.
Here's my only criticism about this episode: If they (Moffat and producers) wanted to make this episode so historically accurate, then why didn't Vincent have one ear? This is because in December 1888, he chopped off his own left ear when he had a tantrum with Paul Gauguin. And remember, this episode was set in 1890 so therefore they should have shown his left ear gone.
Although everyone loves the idea of the ear being cut off, I do believe it is a misunderstanding throughout history that it was his entire ear which was cut off. If I'm not mistaken, it was only part of his earlobe which he cut off.
But I do think in both cases the answer is that is was easier to ignore that detail in the show.
I just have to say thank you for the very (In my opinion) thorough and accurate description of Clinical Depression.
Say what you will about this episode, but Vincent's theme is such a beautiful, little piece of music. Murray Gold really knocked it out of the park with this episode's score.
As a huge fan of Van Gogh, as well as an avid painter myself, I love this episode
you can affect past ( if time machine would exists) but you cant rewrite it. coz that changes everything, vincent van gogh was so good just coz he in his own time he was no one, isolated, mentaly ill ( more you dig into his life it becomes obvious he suffered from some kind of bipolar, his best pieces were done when he was either deeply depressed or manic, even cuting his ear was during manic phase), he was an ancholic, most of bipolar people struggel with some kind of addiction.. he literaly was so good, coz he was no one, rejected, made fun off, wich actually fuled his depression and his art, the pain he felt was the fuel to his art.
I can’t believe you didn’t mention the part where the guide thought “wait.. was tha-… no… no.” scene 😩 was looking forward to that
This episode was what got me interested in Vincent Van Gogh and his amazing artwork. This episode is great.
This was one of my favourite episodes of Doctor Who full stop. I have never been a fan of the Moffat era but this episode is so good.
aside from the weird sound problems
I had to laugh at your comment that the song was not doctor who like, surely having something new is what the shows all about
I don't care that when I look at Vincent I see the Irish mob boss from Daredevil. Every time I see the bit at the end in the French art gallery I cry my eyes out (but yeah I agree it'd be a lot better without the pop song soundtrack)
If there were ever a case for a pure historical in the revival, it's Vincent and the Doctor.
I would place this in the top ten episodes of any Doctor Who story in any season
9:20 as someone who's depressed and lives in Slough, I feel personally attacked. You will be speaking with my therapist.
Based disclaimer. Nobody would've minded if you'd left that out but you probably made someone's life just slightly better by including it
What if....
There is a theory that Vincent didn't actually commit suicide. Two teenaged boys were playing in a field he was painting on. One of the boys had a pistol and for whatever reason, it went off, hitting Vincent in the torso. Not wanting to implicate the boys and ruin their lives in a French prison, he claimed he shot himself. It was a small caliber pistol and the bullet took a couple of days to kill him.
In 2014, a review of the forensic evidence revealed that Vincent did not sustain any powder burns. The angle of the bullet wound also suggested that Vincent could not have been holding the gun (it would have been at an oblique angle if he was) but rather someone else was holding it.
One of Vincent's final words to Theo was "Do not accuse anybody. It is I that wished to [do this]," as if fearing that Theo and the police might go looking for the suspects.
But then, since this Doctor Who episode is historical fact, we can also contend that Vincent welcomed his death knowing that he will never be forgotten.
Just a small idea but the Doctor's staring at Van Gogh sadly because he knows will still die kind of reminds me his staring at Donna when he has to wipe his mind