INNEngine 1 Stroke 120 HP 84 pounds | Is This For Real?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- #Innengine
INNEngine is a Spanish company that claims to have developed a 1 stroke engine making 120 hp that weighs only 84 pounds! Is this for real? Does it work? Is it really a 1-stroke? Would it work in autos?
Today I'll take a look at the INNEngine (like Innovation Engine) and it's development and promise.
innengine.com
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I don't understand why hybrid (such as trains except charging the batteries) hasn't taken off years ago. Whether gas, diesel, hydrogen to drive a small charging engine. I made this concept in the early 80's. I took a 5 horse B&S engine hooked to a alternator via a belt and tried to charge a dead electric golf cart using only two batteries since my alternator was 12 volt and my cart was 48 volt. Got me around doing chores on the farm not bad for being 13 in1980.
A
There have been railway locomotives (and still are) that have a diesel engine and electric generator inside, and move using electric motors consuming electricity provided by the diesel generator. These were the first "hybrids", IIRC at least since 50's of the previous century. But maybe they were used already in the 30's.
In fact, in Czechoslovakia there was a hybrid passenger train called "Slovenská strela" built for operating between Prague and Bratislava. It was built in 1936, its engines used petrol+alcohol mixture as fuel, it had an embedded electric generator and the train was powered by electric motors at low speeds until it reached the cruising speed, than it was switched to direct drive from the combustion engine.
cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorov%C3%BD_v%C5%AFz_M_290.0
@@ok4rm They like the electric motors because of the instant torque that would strain a diesel engine to deliver.
Google search electric motors and generators. Lets say you want to put a 350 hp electric motor in your vehicle. At 550'560 volts plus a matching generator. You want a generator that puts out. Three times more amps then the electric motor requires. This is for startup reasons. Then factor in a voltage reducer. For your vehicles 12 volt needs. Times three add up both together. Which will give you proper generator size. Then look up all generator specifications. From size, weight, input power needed, and at what rpm. Add these specs to the specifications to the electric motor. Here you will find the answer that you are looking for.
One thing that stands out to me too is that there are tiny bearings that spin on the bottom of each piston. If this engine is at-speed, these will need to spin super fast and present higher losses. Maybe there are efficiency gains from other factors, but this will still be there.
Depending on the battery size, engine efficiency and durability is less important for a REX, if you have even 100km EV range most people would almost never use the engine. Packaging is the most important and if the engine will last 1500-2000 hours without major maint that is probably ok.
I completely agree with your perspective. In current form EVs won’t work for most people.
It's the infrastructure that doesn't work; no-where near enough charging stations.
@@nitt3rzThere's also not enough Lithium on the planet to build enough batteries for all car owners to get even 1 EV, let alone a 2nd one, or a replacement battery.
@@nitt3rz Infrastructure is a huge problem, but even if that gets built out, the charge time is unacceptable. When I take a trip, I can not add another hour every couple hundred miles. When I get off the interstate to gas up, there's typically a station like Raceway, with 16 pumps, of which 12 to 14 are in use. The average fill up is fast, and people are in and out. If people got off the interstate and had to get in line behind someone charging, the line would be very, very long. The parking lots of the gas stations are big enough.
Another problem is the power availability (grid). We simply can't handle even half the cars being replaced by EVs. This might be part of your infrastructure point you raised, but this won't be as easy to address as simply adding a few more charging stations.
@@nitt3rz Apart from the issue of the abundance of charging stations, the crux of the matter is the energy density of the charging container and in this respect, gasoline or hydrogen are unrivaled compared to current batteries. Therefore, in the current state of the art, INNengine's solution is undoubtedly the most reasonable.
this concept fits the hybrid application well...hybrids are clearly the bridge to the future and it's a longer bridge than most people understand it to be..
Interesting concept, but I’m really curious what kind of long term durability these engines would have.
I’m not an engineer, but it seems like having a combustion event pushing a piston on a roller bearing down a ramp would introduce a lot of wear to these components. In addition to that, the linear speed of the plate can’t be consistent across the face of the roller because the circumference of the plate will be different at the inside and outside diameter.
Good video Jon. You will probably hit 20k any day now, congratulations in advance 🎉
While correct about the linear surface speeds causing major wear concern, roller bearing have been used in plenty of reciprocating engines (2s and 4s) for a long time. It's not a common technique mostly due to price and increasing reciprocating mass to support the very special split race roller type bearing.
Appreciate it!
The rollers and cam have tapered faces to accommodate this. The outer end of the rollers will be larger so inner and outer traverse their cam paths in the same degrees of crank rotation.
This Innengine will be the future. The materials are all researched and longterm durability will be safe. Combined this with 3d Metall printing technology and hightech materials this engine is THE THING!
Now designt this engine to use Hydrogen/ HHO and we are good to go.
...if it works at all
A range extender is great for those living in condos or apartments with no charging facilities. You wouldn't need to ever wait in line for a charger and you can fill up with gas, diesel, or LNG in minutes. A range extender will keep the batteries at optimum charge range so they get longer battery life. Lighter batteries are lower in initial cost and have a lower replacement cost. Lighter batteries mean longer tire life. Lighter batteries mean better performance.
H is produced from Electricity, 70% electricity is produced from carbon
I really do like the idea of the REX enigne. It worked well for the BMW i3 and fills it purpose. We rarely refuel our and 13/14 days we drive it only on the smaller 60Ah battery. Here i can se the fantastic benefits of lighter engine with "renuable fuel" to make a much better car for the enivroment in the whole lifespan of the car.
Great video!
This is basically a K-Cycle engine that was developed in Canada in the 70's. K Cycle is different from the swashplate engines because of the rollers on the sinusoidal crankshaft.
Do you have links or details on the K-cycle engine?
@@timduncan8450 brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/1018463/summary.html?query=Kristiansen+engine&type=basic_search
Looks like this is a sliding head thing like the Duke engine but with a cam. Lots of problems, few compelling advantages I can see right off.
I think it will perfect as range extender for EV...use a smaller battery, smaller engine as power generator. Dont have clutch, transmission... just engine connected to alternator... best of both world.
Swash plate engines have been around forever. I believe they were used in torpedoes in WWII, and a few decades back, a 200HP version flew in a Piper Arrow, I believe. A problem with that engine design was that it didn't scale up or down very well. I didn't watch the whole video to see if this engine had anything truly new, but...
This is what an AC compressor is. Your compressor or you house or car has 5 or 6 pistons riding on a swash plate as you've described.
This is a mix of a Fairbanks Morse opposed piston Diesel engine from WWII and a car AC compressor .
It’s a torpedo engine. It’s a compressor motor from a fridge. There are elements that are new but the concept is not new
Conceptually, opposed piston 2-stroke has been around for ages, and been used with 2-stroke diesel designs to great effect - e.g. Deltic. The main difference here is the elimination of the traditional crankshafts in the design. Of course, with all 2-stroke designs, it's really only efficient with positive intake pressure - turbocharge or supercharge - and direct fuel injection, to avoid unburnt fuel losses due to transfer ports.
You know what you talking about. Please see my general comments and expand or critique. I am hoping these guys get into production.
as someone who owns a BMW i3 with a mere 20 KWh battery and primitive range extender, Its by FAR the best combo. I rarely use the gas engine with a mere 120 km EV range. With an optimized REX, range extended EVs will massively increase adoption IMHO.
Thanks for the comment. I am so very tempted by the i3, but that miniscule gas tank is a deal killer for me. The range extender removes almost any range anxiety for day-to-day things, but the limited fuel means I'd just trade one anxiety for another. Like driving around with less and 1/4 showing on my fuel gauge at all times. :)
@@AllCarswithJon If you drive long distances often yes I can see it would be annoying. But imagine if it had a mere 30l tank. I use about 8-10 L a year lol mostly city driving. On long drives stopping for 2 min every 80 miles is not a big deal
The weight saving is promising regardless how many strokes this engine has.
Excellent analysis, John.
Thanks
A hybrid from H2 and a E-battery car with less weight but high range would be extremly neat... and I would even not see a problem in carbon output if it is very low.
In general to produce the current generation of batteries you output a lot of carbon while producing them. That package is that high, that most e-battery powered cars have to drive for about 80-120k kms till the carbon output in production matches the one of the diesel/otto engine.
Very simplified: If the output of the e-rex would be much lower (let's say 1/3 or even 1/4 of the otto engine), it would take 300 / 400k kms till they would be "worse" than the EV.
Most cars are not even driving that long and EVs batteries do not hold as long anyway. So in the end if it would be something like that, a e-Rex powered car would even be more environment friendly while have nice features like very long, actual range, etc. - even with 1/2 of the carbon output of otto it still would be pretty good and a lot of cars would not be driven that long and the batteries (around 250k lifespan is what is said at the moment, right?), would still hold as long as it would still be equal to the EV in carbon output, right?
If of cause the carbon output is on par with Otto, this isn't as useful anymore, but I think it would be much better, right?
That can of cause change if the battery production becomes much more environment friendly, but till that is the case (if ever) it is a very promising concept.
I think this is brilliant idea, removes range issues. In my opinion electric vehicles have one major flaw at the moment and that is battery life cycle and resale value after 5 years. Replacement batteries are expensive and would then increase second vehicle cost so who would buy one. Also Governments would be losing excise tax on fuel so would start charging taxes based on miles/kilometers driven
It takes money to have stable and safe roads. We could rip them up and drive on dirt ! ? ? ?
Series hybrid is my preference. I suspect we have a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
If it only is used in drones and mil gensets, They have very large market. JP4 fuel for everything.
Looks good. Cheers from the Paific West Coast of Canada.
Cheers!
Terrific and informative show, thanks you.
It would work great in a hybrid as a generator or electric vehicle efficiency with regenerative braking as well would be more practical than straight electric, which is fallen out of favor because of the continuous fires that occur with the lithium ion batteries you replace the batteries with capacitors and the generator powers them up periodically and doesn’t run the engine continuously along with the regenerative braking ability and you have a small battery for back up. This will be much more efficient and practical now that everyone knows that the electric car is dead because of its fire potential a fire you can’t put out and when it’s charging your garage will burn your house to the ground
Powering an engine on Hydrogen to generate electricity is going backwards. If you're going to use Hydrogen then just use a fuel cell which uses the hydrogen much more efficiently than burning it in an engine to run a generator. But I like the idea of the simple, lightweight, small size engine with Low/no vibration.
I worked on a somewhat related engine design 15 yrs ago and abandoned it due to the advent of sufficient battery density ushering in EV's etc. This make me want to revive the project however.
I’m curious to see how this works out. Could this work in something like the SmartForTwo? A motorcycle? Or a side by side trike?
I think I read about this power plant in an old Popular Mechanix's I picked up several boxes of them very intersting reads. Thanks for upload.
Interesting!
like that idea as a way to extend my distance with a boost - my new Bolt gets (top ) 248 miles which means to see my granddaughter is a ten hour trip (having to charge along the way) but with a boost it would be 5
Very interesting something new
Hybrid/range extending cars are really good idea in the US, Canada, & other countries where there can be 100s of miles between someone & civilisation. A lightweight engine that doesn't reciprocate means not just less weight to carry around, but the chassis doesn't have to be so strong.
And you don't have to lug around a massive heavy and expensive battery
Weak chassis! Not what you want when in an accident!!
So it's a 2 Stoke opposed engine with a sculptured cam plate that replaces the crankshaft. The connecting rod has a tiny roller bearing that replicates a crankshaft journal. It's certainly a novel take on an opposed piston engine, but one stroke it isn't. The bearing on the connecting rod is its weakness at the moment. There will be side forces on the piston. I'm not sure how they ameliorate those. All of that said, it is certainly more efficient than generating, distributing, and storing electricity. Why would we need a hybrid? Carting around a heavy battery that needs constant recharging isn't a very good plan. Running these engines on zero emission synthetic fuel makes more sense.
The bearings on which those pistons roll will probably have a lifespan of like 2 weeks
also, burning hydrogen in engine that's supposed to serve as "range extender" for EV doesn't make sense since hydrogen powered fuel cell EVs already exist which generate electricity by consuming hydrogen and that's way more efficient than burning it in IC engine.
...And the lower efficiency exacerbates the problem that you can hardly fit enough hydrogen for long tours in a car, it takes up too much space. So it doesn't make much sense for a range extender.
What _could_ possibly make sense though is to burn ammonia in such an engine. It is carbon-free like hydrogen, but much easier to store; only, it can't (directly) be used in fuel cells and therefore justifies using a combustion engine.
Hydrogen. They wrote a song about that. "To dream the imposible dream, . . . ". Oh, and the permeable membrane in the fuel cell is inexpensive and has a lifetime warranty. :-)
A range-extending generator for a daily commuter only needs to be about 15kW for a car and 20kW for an SUV. 120HP/90kW would be for someone doing heavy towing with a truck or HEV racing.
Toyota estimates that they ca build aprox 18 full hybrid vehicles over one BEV using the same battery resources.
Wow, I've never heard that type of difference!
@@AllCarswithJon yes, i first heard it on Alex on Autos youtube channel then investigated further on toyota's web site and found the same info from them
Toyota's late to the party. They are in defense mode. 1/18 th, not going to be a very big battery. Seems like it will have it's own limitations. Most EVs are 320 mile batt ÷ 18 = 18 miles per charge. Hmmm ? So they will save lithium but use a lot of iron, nickle, aluminum, & steel. Six of one half dozen of the other. Toyota has been going to introduce a 'revolutionary new engine' every year for the last 10 years. They need to cut their losses (hydrogen fuel cells, etc.) and get a good BEV program underway. I think range extender is a good idea but battery tech is moving forward reasonably well. I'll guess we will just wait and see what the marketplace will accept.
I just don't get their claim "There is no oil in the mix and pressurized lubricated areas are far from the combustion chamber." AFAICT the pressurized areas are exactly where they are in any engine and if anything I would expect the lubrication needs to be greater due to having two pistons in the chamber. Claims like this and denying it is 2 stroke make Innengine seem very sus...
I believe one of the problems inherent in this type of engine is heat management.
There is no practical way to get the heat out of the engine (fast enough) as it is so compact and structured in such as way that you cook the internal parts of the engine.
Particularly when you try and make a higher power version.
Exactly ❤❤❤
The biggest issue with EVs is the batteries. Not taking into account future numbers of on road vehicles. If lets say ,by magic, we paused the world and magically erased all ICE powered vehicles and replaced them all with lets say a 350 mile range battery equivalent vehicle. That would be it. That would be your last EV vehicle poered by the current battery technology. Why? Because it would take every known deposit of just the lithium to make those batteries. Not taking into account any other minerals. 1 shot, thats all we get. If someone doesnt start working on a new revolutionary battery technology yesterday, the EV is already started walking its last mile.
Seeing new innovations like this gives me hope for the future
Called Cam Engines which includes swash plate engines, They have been around forever.
My comment on e-Rex and Innengine. I saw their video, demonstrating the original idea, i.e. two opposing pistons in each cylinder. There was even a commercial offer to sell 125 ccm 4-cylinder engine for about 3750 euro in their website. That was yesterday or the day before yesterday. Now, this morning, I was sharing the video with a couple of friends. Checked the website again. But to my surprise, there is another engine (under the same name), the picture showing a 4-cylinder 4-stroke structure with only one piston per cylinder, almost a classic construction except the cylinders are located in a circle and pistons are connected to the wave-shaped plate (there is one in this engine, contrary to two shown in their original video) and the price changed to 8250 euro per piece. For me it looks really suspicious. Did anybody successfully purchased and used one of their engines, yet?
To me it looks like a scam to convince their investors pour more money into the project when they realized some serious problem with the original concept, but this is only my personal impression and speculation and I may be wrong.
😁😁👍👍I think this is a great addition for electric cars especially in colder environments where the batteries loose some of there range.
Good video. One problem is comparing this to a traditional two stroke. Traditional has the intake and exhaust ports across the cylinder from each other(very close).
This opposed piston has the intake and exhaust ports at the bottom of one cylinder to the bottom of the other cylinder(very far).
Linear vs loop scavenging seems better to me in terms of volumetric efficiency. What were you thinking?
Fossil fuels just make more sense at this moment in time, but maybe someday.
Emissions is what I was wondering about
Interesting. It's definitely something to keep an eye on. But like like so many ideas before it, I don't expect much. The Wankel engine was going to save us all. How did that work out? That doesn't mean that they don't have their uses and often excel in n certain applications.
Another great video. Very thought provoking.
Did anybody see the brlt driven paxton supercharger. Attached to the engine in the car?
If the one stroke is false claim ..
I should reclaim
my
Half stroke claim
@ All Cars with Jon Your cartoon of a weed eater 2S at 1:43 is misleading. This engine doesn’t use crank case scavenging as you probably know. Cartoon are with 1000 words, get them right.
That's actually an animation directly from Innengine describing 2S, not mine.
its no one one Strcke but I Think its Efficient.
Free piston engine is One Strocke.
this one is a Appost Piston Roller Chamshaft Rotary .
its good Technik.
but Heat may Crack it.
thanks
lg Rupp
1 Inn x 10
840 lb 1200hp
Ought move 80lb truck
The problem with this is Torque ?
The squash plate does not provide the equivalent leverage for rotation that the crankshaft 'throw' can create as the piston rod pushes 'down' on it.
Throw = The distance from the center of the crankshaft (main bearings) to the center of piston rod journal (where rod bearings connect on crankshaft). :-)
Sounds good for aircraft, but for the rest of us - horsies....
I don't see this thing working in cars. Military jones/loitering munitions yes I see a big application. More power, less weight, cheaper to produce (maybe).
Agreed let's make them for Ukrainian drone's
If they can use hydrogen to power their”range extender engine” why not do away with the ev part and just go with hydrogen to power an ice engine? There are so many issues with ev’s yet some are still trying to cram them down our throats.
How much dollars
I’ve heard from an energy expert that hydrogen is possibly too expensive at the production stage to be competitive.
Your whole video is to debunk the 1 stroke claim when the creator has claimed it's not truly a 1 stroke.
Great job!
Good luck with all of that. When people have PHEV's they often just end up running on the engine. This is still basically early days for BEV's. Just look back to the '70's and '80's and how engineers eventually pulled us out of that mess. Range extenders just add complexity and weight just to try to ease people's range anxiety. On another subject, all roads are for the benefit of "people"-all people. Therefore all people should chip in for roads, not just vehicle owners.
Agreed. Eventually EVs will have to pay their fair share of road costs. It is easy enough to do. All EVs are connected the the manufacturer/MotherShip ! Just require the mileage data transfered to the proper state tax agency. Problem solved. :-(
The last two and a half minutes...
hidrogen eats metal
1 cyl ÷ 2 pst =
No working Video.
Piston is working in 1 circle 2 stroke.
Opposite piston
Stroke 1/2ved
Why would you carry around an engine you aren't using ninety percent of the time? That is just Stupid.
In an EV you're dragging around 750lbs+ every single day that you don't need.
@@AllCarswithJon What do you suppose a full Hydrogen tank, at 3,000psi or more, an engine plus transmission and all the other associated parts for an internal combustion system would weigh?
This isn't even a new kind of engine. It's called a swashplate engine and there's a reason they aren't used. Also, using hydrogen in a combustion process is about the stupidest way to use hydrogen to power something..
7:16 false exagg..
Extender no
Ice electric hybrid
Train engine
I mean, they call it a range extender on their website.
This news has been out for weeks and the company itself said that the '1-stroke' was a marketing gimmick and that the engine itself is not actually a 1-stroke engine. Being this late to the party after everything that has already been discussed about it...
Its not just the toxins introduced by mining and refining mineral batteries but the 500,000 lbs of dirt needed to make one battery. The trucks that dig this dirt consume 1000 gallons of diesel per hour...
I also argue that fuel is carbon neutral that plants need carbon to grow and algae uses it as well....to make more oil ... or does oil not come from plants. Fuel 100 percent renewable.
90% oxymoron
End of the internal combustion engine? LOL... only for you and I friend. Unless of course you happen to be a wealthy stakeholder "elite", in which case even your private jet is carbon credit and emmissions exempt. So no need to worry, you still get a Ferrari in that neo feudalist system. Why don't you do a video on how Henry Ford created the middle class, that we can enjoy watching in out 15 minute cities, while eating bugs.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Motorcycle riders were ahead of the times. Yummy bugs.
Funny story. I was driving in my pick-up with extended cab. Summer day, window down. Some large beetle type bug hit the inner edge of the mirror and richocheted in the window. Barely missed my head and splatted on the upright portion of the rear seat. I'm thinking, 'I will find it and throw it out later'. About 3 secs later I get this smell like my nose has been pushed straight into a pile of pig s h i t. I guess that was what the bug had for lunch. I pulled off on the grass and used some napkins to clean the seat. Left them on the roadside. It never quit stinking till I got home at the end of the day and used 409 cleaner on it.
Yes, I can hardly wait for a U.N. approved 'Bug Burger' !
@@BillSmith-fx7xx That is one of the many reasons I always wear a full faced helmet. But the bugs on my visor dont concern me so much as you do Bill Smith? Meaning you seem like a bit of a hater, seem like you might hate those darn motor-sickle riders jusg a bit. Am I right or what?
@@Ed-ty1kr Not at all. Before helmets became so commom, the motorcycle riders themselves used to joke about catching the bugs. Everybody, including riders, laughed and nobody got 'sideways' about it all. It was implicitly understood by everyone that large bugs and eyeballs was not funny.
Appearently you're not famimiar with the Global Elistists & the WEFs (World Economic Forum at Davos, Switzerland) & United Nations plan to kill all the cattle and for all of us to eats bugs for protein. It seems they believe cattle require; too much fertilizer (grain), too much farm land, and create too much methane. So, hence motorcyclists, 'ahead of the times' ! Is this world going to Hades in a handbasket ? I think so.
Even stupider, EU is planning on 'culling' 280,000ish Irish cattle this spring. The EU is hassling farmers all over Europe. Especially the Netherlands. Do some searches, it is all out there.
You don't need to fear me and never did. But understanding the world around us seems to be a 'top' priority.
I hope you were able to laugh at my bug story. Honest, it smelled just like pig shit !
The entire carbon argument for ev's is moot while so much of their power is derived from fossil fuels, a lot of which is coal.
ITS NOT A HAT RACK