I actually made this video 22 nights ago. They made a patch to reduce some enemy spawns, but it didn't seem like anything significant enough to sway the discussion here.
For people like me who play the game more casually, without a super active guild (basically a member for the hp in guild hall) and don’t use discord or anything like that, most of these dungeons are off limits. Took years to do my first Halls, Shatters, Cult, 1x Void… all done public. In public, nobody does O3 or new shatters. So I have had 1 attempt at both and that is it.
I never even was able to do a public halls because after 5 minutes everybody already left and that is kinda sad. The majority of the community is just not into trying to complete hard dungeons in public lobbies
A: you can always try and join a more casual guild. And occasionally do the exalt dungeons with a handful of people. B: just challenge yourself by trying to solo mid to high tier dungeons. I go down the dungeon fame list and am currently at trying to solo the new d-docks.
I whole heartedly agree with this comment, and I'm a long time veteran of this game. I tried new dungeons by myself and couldn't complete any new content until I got lucky and was picked up by a top guild.
My main issue is that it's an exaltation dungeon. If this were optional content for cool white bags? Awesome, let players who want to do it do it. But 30-60 minute runs of a dungeon you theoretically have to complete 75 times to exalt one stat? Especially when you consider exalting the attack stat is the first stat the game tells you to do as a goal? It's just absurd for the average player.
amazing video as always! im pretty optimistic that this dungeon will get fixed to become more enjoyable, hopefully im not grey and wrinkly by then though.... its starting to show already...
it looks like there was a different story being told with the old shatters, one where the forgotten kingdom was over taken by lava instead of the void so maybe they could still coexist but with slightly different characters and lore
See, in other MMO's long dungeons are understandable because after every 1 hour dungeon you get some decent loot, maybe not what you wanted and still need to grind, but you get rewarded. If I can do a nest in 8 minutes instead... what's the fucking point.
@@thedoctorepic2337 dude no way! XD yea that shit is a fucking scam, ive beat forgotten king about 3 times to get just pota and a mark trash loot trash dungeon tbh.
@@Wazzup272 > then look at a tutorial and practice: Its bad game design to have to be forced to watch a tutorial or learn from somewhere outside of the game itself; a boss pattern should be learned through natural gameplay. The only boss in the dungeon that's learnable through the game itself is Bridge Sentinel because he doesnt have a trillion patterns. > It's refreshing having something new and challenging: The dungeon itself is not worth the loot and far to long. Difficulty doesnt equate to length.
I feel like once a year, I come back to this game just to see newer and newer content that requires a whole ass guild in order to do. And it's not just that, it takes tons of planning ahead and even having a fully maxed character to even attempt it. I run this game mostly solo, so when I see a new dungeon like this, I feel like it's impossible to even attempt it. I've been playing this game since 2010, there's been a lot of changes in difficulty over the years, and that's not a bad thing; however it sucks that I can't just take a peek to see what it's all about. I'm not saying every dungeon should be able to be solo'd, it would just be nice to have something that is more public friendly, considering it's a dungeon that drops from a required boss to clear the realm. It's awesome that they put new content in the game like this, but really sucks that you have to scrounge around for a group even willing to invite you to the run to give it a viable attempt.
And you know what? I'm totally okay with content that requires coordination and teamwork of guilds. The only problem is that the guild system is god awful and doesn't encourage this at all. If the guild system was able to properly allow its members to cooperate and collaborate, I think it would be great to have endgame dungeons require some teamwork. At the end of the day, this is a coop game.
Your frustration is understandable, but if all content was beatable to anybody there would be no "endgame". I think it is unfair to expect to experience all of any game's content without putting in the time to get there.
I don't have enough motivation to grind out this game nowadays But I would love to casually attempt this dungeon, just to see how far i could get Looks absolutely insane
They could make it guarantee both greater potions for everyone who hits the soulbound threshold. I've done it a couple of times, and sometimes I only get a cloth. It's ridiculous considering how much of an investment it is just to get to the first twi bosses Also, I have only gotten to King once, (and died) and from what I've seen, the fight can take nearly an hour alone... so saying that the entire dungeon is only one hour might actually be kind of generous. At least with the original shatters if you were lucky enough to get a group that didn't dirty up the first part, completing the rest didn't take that much time...
hey man, are drops more easy to get? cause a friend of mine got about 3 St and 4 whitebags in about 2 days, and i remember st where like insanely rare only gotten a few in my 5-6 years of playing this game
I think the best idea for Deca to make the dungeons quicker would be changing the clear of 2nd boss. I think they should add back rushing not only will it make it faster but it will carry on the aspects of the old shatters. They should make it so one person can rush the flames and once they kill the flame thing the flame goes instantly to boss room instead of them having to drag it all the way back and clear. Now they can add a secret switch and trickster can get that bc trickster is not as useful because bosses cant be decoyed so it would add more of a use to them. If the group doesn't have a trickster then they will have to do the 3rd flame and this one should have the players drag it all the way to boss room, this will allow all runs to require a trickster to make them faster and make it so they don't feel useless.
wlab vit atk, sprite/snake/dd dex spd, cd/udl/sew wis def, cult life mana. now u 8/8 so go do exaltation dungeons to max further characters, 03 life mana, nest dex, cc, wis vit(kinda) and Lh atk def.
The potion drops in general should be buffed. Everyone agrees that maxing a character is more of a chore than any fun. Since i started playing when maxing was 6/6 I thought maxing was a pain to do, having to farm like 20 snake pits for 1 stat is just dumb. Maxing is just plain time consuming, there is no skill involved (besides life), you just waste time in general farming for pots. You said that they spoiled us with potion drops, but it still takes like 2 full days of farming (Unless you trade for pots) to get a character close to max stats and that character can die to 1 hit in a lot of end game content. If Deca is willing to make end game content just plain instakill maybe they should actually make pots farming less of a chore, like making potions be worth 4 stat points intead of 1 or adding a "public market" feature so people can buy their pots easier. A game is about having fun and there is no fun in doing easy dungeons for 6 - 12 hours to get 1 character maxxed so he can get instakilled in the new shatters or other endgame content. The reason why people don't do public runs is because its not worth risking those hours it took them farming pots to get one-shotted. Making maxing easier, specially 6/8, would incentivize public runs in general in any dungeon, including the new shatters, and make the game more fun and new player friendly. PS: I know you can just buy the potions you need, but this means you need to have the trading capital to do so, which is not new player friendly or f2p friendly (because of vault size).
This is big facts. Maxing, takes so long and it is so monotonous. Especially with some classes needing 30+ of potions to max. It such a waste of time to, like you said, grind for hours just to get insta popped
This is a F2P MMO with a level cap of 20. Potions are the only way to make sure you aren't op in minutes. Take any other mmorpg game out there and you have to grind for at least dozens of hours before you get to any endgame content. If everyone was able to max their character in only 2 or 3 hours, the only thing to differentiate geared players to weak players are the ultra-rare white drops, which would just promote blind discord runs with max dungeon capacity. Besides I find doing insane pub tombs with a fresh character just to get the life as quick as possible insanely fun. Try to see how fast you can max and all the sudden you are rushing abyss's on a 3/8 wiz and unless you have a divine pet that will get your blood pumping just as much as o3.
The problem here agian lies, that the people who have spent alot of money, and content creaters like sebchoof, cant run out of characters to die on… because hes spent alot of time that people that has school or work in an actual job that dosent spend 13 hours on a game daily
i think bosses, not just for this new shattera but in general, go invincible too often and for too long. i understand it for like davy jones and horrific creation where to get the boss vulnerable you have to do something but when they just go invincible outside of our control as players it feels like padding. id rather bosses had more health and only very rarely went invincible. like mostly just before they die so they can do their dialogue or something
I have to add something in question to the pots drop since the video says that maybe it's necessary to lower the drop hate, I don't agree with this as it's already difficult for a casual player to get a character 8/8 and with these new dangeons it is even more necessary to have an 8/8 character, I think the problem is more in people who do dugeons in discord , so would be more plausible to increase shatera's drops (whites and potions)
Honestly this dungeon looks like a time waster for me... before this came out i forged as many crowns as i could to not have to farm for this.. uts are cool but not a deal breaker for me to switch other great uts that you get from other less time wasting sources..
And I don't think nerfing godland dungeon pot drops is the right approach. Currently rains are worth a lot, making it quite easy for noobs to make money and get gear. If you nerfed small dungeons and buffed hard dungeons, the gap between noob and average imbecile would be even larger.
Current shares needs 4x the amount of loot it drops right now, and the bosses need to drop 3 of both greater pots upon completion. That way you aren’t wasting your time and you also have a decent chance at getting some great loot for completing such a difficult dungeon.
the fact that people still value tradable items when O3 has thrown the price of glife into dirt and public dupe methods have flooded in the market even more so with the existing duped items is fucking beyond me. It’s an endgame dungeon, you’re suppose to be doing it for a challenge, UT loot and exalts.
Wouldn't be surprised if a meta emerged where the terrible players who play this game purchase a service to get them a UT from the shatters, the mace in particular, and dupe it for them, because they are so bad at playing the game they need someone else to do it for them and dupe it for them because they can't survive with cheats.
@@vryyyx This is a terrible comment. Assuming what you mean by "said" is referring to your first post, not only am I able to answer that question in complete clarity (it reflects what you had said about duping and cheating as a whole in the game and how it will impact the game directly), your statement had mentioned cheating and dupes, separate and off context from my rebalancing idea in my original post. If by "said" you meant my first post, it's a reply to your post so it would have no correlation. Both follow-up messages did not have context because you had branched off and I had commented on that.
Glide and gmana isn’t a problem... it’s the potions in between such as wis , spd vit that are too hard to come by because no one spends all day grinding snakes and udl a like they do o3s. A new something is needed to farm those pots more efficiently because it puts people off the game having to grind all day for Max and losing it in potentially under a second if u make the wrong move
What they need to do is get rid of pbags. If you put in the work and time to survive a dungeon, and you contribute your part to the dmg and completion, you should always get a potion. It is total BS that void runs can give you only a mark regardless of the damage you have done to boss.
It’s to make sure people don’t leech. They gotta put in their 20% hp scale or whatever it is to earn their loot. Otherwise it would be an easier fight for everyone else if they weren’t there. But definitely downgrading the threshold
@@jamiewigg2133 there is no such threshold. Once you get your soulbound damage in by hitting the boss like 5 times, it's purely up to rng if you get actual loot or just a mark.
I think the main problem is a good amount of the end game dungeons in the game take about 15 ish minutes and this is one of the only things in the game that double if not triple that time, bosses need to give better loot keep em hard as is, make it so the long part is the boss not the geting to the boss, and this is just a me thing but yo can the top 3 hardest dungeons drop like some nutty tire of pot? No just me? ya it's a just me thing.
I'm all for more interesting bullet patterns, but I feel like the risk to reward is weak. I also really don't wanna have to find a fully coordinated group just to run a dungeon.
I do think that Deca was expecting this exact reaction from most players, and it was kinda part of their plan. It seems Deca is trying to create a true endgame. Let me explain. Besides O3 (which has some flaws I'll get into later), the shatters is one of the only true endgame dungeons. It caters to what endgame players want: Powerful whites, exaltations, and a challenge. This dungeon probably won't be appealing to a large majority to the players, only the ones that have everything else they want. And Deca is giving them a run for their money. In terms of optimization, I don't think there is much that can be done. The dungeon is in its infancy, but Deca has already shown that they want to make sure the dungeon doesn't get cheesed. They did this by removing a safe spot in the Archmage's fire finale. This is similar to deca's fix to the celestial safe spot, but O3 was still turned into a joke by the stagger and counter feature (which Deca has said they will be reworking, making O3 much less steamrollable). I have been working on optimizations, but besides group knowledge and better pathing there isn't much to be done. The king fight has a multitude of damage caps that force the players to go through the phases, so the fight can be shorter for high dps groups compared to low dps groups not hitting the damage caps, but not as much as other dungeons with no damage caps. A few minutes will be taken off the time, but not enough to appeal to non-endgame players. I have died my fair share in the dungeon (35 completes 12 deaths), but I don't think any of them were the game's fault. It was my lack of knowledge, lack of skill, or my reluctance to nexus. The difficulty feels much more pure than most other endgame dungeons, with instapops and debuffs being used few and far between and with good placement. I don't think that shatters is going to get much better aside from the hp scaling fixes, but that's just something the community is going to have to adapt to. I hope with the fixes they plan on doing to O3 it will be similar. Thanks for reading my rant, I appreciate your time and am happy to discuss and acknowledge opinions, as well as change my own.
I agree. Fights like O3 really get a lot easier with a good group, sometimes to the point where you just wait and in mostly the same spot with the occasional strafe and complete the dungeon. You really see how hard it is when you actually get to solo it and you have to dodge and manage the boss' movement at the same time. Decoys also play a huge role in how easy a fight becomes if the boss aggros directly on people and that is something that shatters also doesnt allow (at least in sentinel). This fight, despite long, actually feels fair to any group size and non-cheesable like other bosses. Theres not much you can do to triviallize the dungeon so in comparison it takes longer but this is something that would be for the better in general, instead of us being used to 3 minute o3 with minimal dodging. Its almost like cheating but without cheating just so we get the shiny white bag that we want. I sometimes forget how enjoyable dungeons like LoD can be if you actually solo it or with a couple friends and try to take as little damage as possible. It actually feels fun to do and gives me the same enjoyment as bullet hell games despite not being endgame but its easy to forget about such stuff when we are so focused on getting to the end asap to have our lootbox moment.
The huge giant enormous problem most people have with shatters is that attack exalts take so goddamn long now. People who previously got 5/5 on all their characters in shatts get an advantage, while the others have to slog through hours of the dungeon to just get one exalt with high risk of losing a character.
@@maganashaker167 Exaltations were never meant to be an end goal, even DECA said that. They're meant to be something you work up towards in the background, as in, you want to do said dungeon for whatever reason (whites, fun, marks, etc) and accumulate exaltations. Since there is no endgame after o3 and getting the latest gear, people use exaltations as their main objective but this is wrong. And regarding the advantage of people who did the other shatters, all the power to them. Early bird gets the worm and they worked for it, now they get to reap the rewards. So the question becomes, not "why does it take so long just to get 1 exaltation?" but rather "why does it take so long to complete this dungeon?" to which I answer that this takes time because not only does it display the most amount of bosses out of any other dungeon in the game (3 separated bosses instead of 1 per dungeon or 1 followed by another one, such as Void Entity after MBC, or agglomerated bosses like in the Tomb where all 3 count as 1 fight). This means that shatters is almost like 3 dungeons in a row, which obviously will always take more time than any other single boss dungeon but personally I like it. It might take more time than other dungeons but honestly, its where variety lies and having something unique for once is greatly appreciated. This isn't to say that it can't be tweaked in some areas (such as minion HP scaling, showing the monument locations/how many are left to open, blobombs ew) but in general i think its better to have this kind of variety rather than the same old layout of dungeon - boss - end of dungeon. And not to mention that if everyone contributes to clearing every place, it will be a lot quicker. If people spread out over the village to find the monument, they will find them in no time and activate the bridge well under 1-2 mins, the problem here is that people are afraid too, so they dont help out but with time this will get better. Then people can form 3 groups to clear for the reactors instead of making 1 group that goes to every reactor one at a time (i get that HP scaling might be an issue here, which is why HP scaling should be fixed). And lastly the last part for the forgotten king already has the group gathered so theres no splitting needed. After that you get to boss and done.
I also forgot to mention the fact that these bosses are immune to phase skipping much like FERAL. This also adds time because you have to wait for them to end their phase. This is something that rotmg players are used to doing with the huge amounts of DPS, which turns a boss like O3 in a joke because of how little time he has to shoot bullets. In a way you could say we've become spoiled with how quick dungeons are over by deleting any boss with ease. This dungeon counters the mechanic of phase skipping which obviously is not something most are accostumed to, and with that it makes it longer. People just have to get used to it and I hope that they make future bosses like this as well (lategame dungeons that is, i wouldnt see any use for this to be present in a snake pit).
@@Waterwolf221 YES. Decoy manipulation and lack of dps walls are what make the dungeon way too steamrollable. If they consider these things the dungeon is gonna be much more comparable to shatters, and certainly harder. Solo O3's are some of the most fun O3's I've done, and it's these reasons specifically that I want the meta to change.
100% agree, shatters is way too long and the loot isn’t even good (asides from some white bags). You can do a void and even o3 and get more loot for less time. I feel bad for people grinding 75 current shatters for exalts
I just think that the bosses are too tanky and dangerous and the minions have the same problem, they have nerfed both so I'll have to try it now but I definitely don't like the idea of exaltation dungeons becoming harder and needing discords to do consistently.
My primary issue with Realm as a whole is how awful radial blasts are in a perma-death bullet hell. I think if more funny sentinel slams are going to be added, I think healing should be decreased, and health pools should be increased, but that would require a minor to complete rework of how all of that is implemented, and there's already a lot to change.
Radial blasts are fine, just dont stay near the boss too much. You have moments to deal damage as a melee. Imo the problem are enemies like Blobombs that add nothing interesting to the fight except an insta death if you dotn have space to dodge elsewhere, not to mention their high range & fast travelling bullets coupled with the fact that they keep spawning everywhere in the arena during any phase.
@@Waterwolf221 True. The slimes in the new Avatar of Forgotten King are also so annoying that most people will mess up and sit on the bomb. It's intentional so that people avoid cheesing it but it's so annoying and weeks pass and many 8/8 still die there
Y333s duuude i think that most of the dungeons need to do it how wlab and ddocks do their life drops thicket does it well nest is stupidly op for life tomb rework :eyes: cult should have all pots in the pool with lower chance for life and mana void should get high chance for gwis gdef 1life and 1mana with lower chance of getting 1glife and/or 1gmana also pre o3 bosses kinda drop waaay too much shit, just lower it to 1life + 1gmana or something similar and maybe increase o3 loot if so you get the point
I find it kinda sad how pretty much, Deca only cares about endgame content nowadays. Sure, it's a good challenge, but for some reason, they fail to acknowledge there are less skilled/casual (like me) players, who can't beat these dungeons.
@@Aranmath yeah I really enjoyed playing Realm "casually" ( I was still grinding like crazy and hoarding stuff but I really liked being able to do so on my own or with a handful of people for the most part ) . This is also part of the reason why I dislike the nerf to pets made many months ago. The other reason being that I feel ripped off on the money I spent...
@@deejayf69 The nerf to pets was just bad, imo. They wanted to make Realm a more challenging experience, but what about the people who spent tons of time grinding for fame/spent a lot of money getting a divine pet? (Right now, I'm trying to get a Legendary one.)
@@Aranmath I don't think its that they fail to acknowledge it, its that all their low/mid game content has been much less successful than new endgame stuff. especially monetarily. dungeons like the 3rd dimension and HTT barely turned heads, while LH and o3 became massive talking points even years after they released, which keep people playing the game and buying more keys. The truth of the matter is rotmg really doesn't cater well to new players coming in so alot of what deca tries to do is about keeping existing players in and spending. Even exaltations partly get people to buy keys in bulk for dungeons people were otherwise not even considering just for the sake of the stat buffs.
I somewhat disagree on the whole nerfing the potion thing. In my perfect world, maxing stats would be much easier, getting to level 20 is much much faster, and a lot of dungeon gets harder but at the same time not long.
NO I do not think we were spoiled, if anything, the normal glands dungeons encourage soloing because they aren't guaranteed for everyone, which can be a pain if you're a new player. Epic dungeons can now give gpots, but you aren't guaranteed to the gpot you want, if you're in a group.
Ok I want to get this off my chest. If i'm being honest i think the problem is not that the new shatters are difficult, but that IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Imagine spending more than 10 min playing a dungeon so that at the end of 50 people only 2 have wb and 10 pots, the rest NOTHING. So who would want to get into groups to complete the dungeon for nothing? There are two options that DECA can do; that everyone who enters at least receive the reward of pots and some pp wb, or simply REMOVE the limit of exaltation. What do i mean by this? That in order to exalt yourself no longer need 8/8, at leats 6/8 would have to be the new limit if they continue to make dungeons more complex than before.
first of all, white bags are never guaranteed, it's purely up to luck. There can be a run where literally every person gets a crown, although it's incredibly unlikely. Secondly, requiring you to not be 8/8 would allow noobs to enter runs and leech and still get exaltations, which removes some of the value of getting exalts as an achievement.
I would love if DECA made end game dungeons that are accessible to the public, these "raid" style dungeons are a big reason I have nearly quit altogether.
From my point of view: this game is fast-paced. Dungeons take seconds to only a handful of minutes at most. The only exception are some of the endgame dungeons, which can last sometimes into double digits. However, the new shatters takes too long after the first boss. I think the village and first boss are perfectly paced for a single-boss fight. The problem comes in when you have to do this MULTIPLE times in ONE dungeon. The only other dungeons who do this (Fungal/CC and Lost Halls/Cult/Void) count for MULTIPLE exaltation instead of just ONE. So the length can be justified in the other dungeons, just not this one. TL;DR Why should this atk exaltation take way longer than all the other exaltations?
@@happyman6701 Counter Point: Nests for Dex exalt Plus, the life exalt being an O3 complete I think is fair, since life is a very sought-after stat, next to DPS
Man, after hearing about all those greedy, scummy and lazy companies, it really seems like we have been blessed with DECA, a team making TOO MUCH content for its game. Sure they make mistakes, but it could be so much worse. I've rarely seen a video game company make so many changes to a game and have the community consider most of it to be this great or at least in the right direction
Y DECA is truly a blessing focusing just on the endgame while new players give up quickly cuz they don't know what to do...and solo players who are not guildgins don't do endgame dungeons they are stuck to mid game dungeons +all DECA is doing is reskins of items in all events or campaigns you won't see 1 new item just reskins
Amazing dungeon but the loot drop rate is so bad that you just don't wanna do it in public run. Mastering this dungeon will take so long for newbies like me and farming for whites will surely suck for anyone whos only doing public runs
Ima be honest, grinding for potions was never fun and never will. Remember what rotf did? You get buffed drop rates on potions so you could begin playing the game faster. It's also less fun getting less stuff so definitely a no on nerfing potion drops across the board.
I just hate dungeons that you can't complete without having knowledge of all the attack patterns of bosses and enemies beforehand and there's instapops everywhere. Didn't know the red sword on sentinel curves to the side instead of going straight? Ded.
As someone who has never been in the new shatters I can agree that the dungeon is too hard, Even the avatar himself is hard now, lmao. like you said. the art of the enemies and the dungeon is great, but it's just not worth it to go into the shatters because of the high risk low reward.
Well, at least according to the Q&A on the official discord from a day or two ago, they do indeed have plans to nest the enemy HP. Was much needed, and I’m assuming they were just waiting for the dust to settle so they could get a better idea of peoples issue with the dungeon rather than their knee jerk reaction. Also I do agree about endgame dungeons needing their potion drops adjusted. Stuff like O3s drop way too many potions for their own good, especially considering the frequency of the other loot you get from them. They could straight up halve the potions from it and it would be fine because there’s already lots of other reasons to run the dungeon.
I for one agree that potion drops need a nerf across the board in endgame dungeons. Keep the guaranteed pots for soloers, but the group odds should at least be lowered. And in some, like the nest. I don’t think life should even be in the loot pool.
Imagine finishing a dungeon after 1 hour and you get 1 mana. That's IF you finish the dungeon lmao Thats how I feel about this game, my mastery of the game is rewarded with very lackluster loot. Its not even about getting white bags, pots and normal equipment is given so scarcely for no reason which makes levelling characters SO SLOW! Like come give me more than 1 pot from my 1000th snake pit :( And by the time you do dungeons like the shatters you don't even need the pots cuz you're basically maxed. Pacing and progression in this game is purposely so slow to slowly ease you into buying gold idk it feels that way sometimes. And plus stop saying "u get a character slot every 30 days be grateful that you get something for free >:( " as I get my 30th dye from the daily reward. Literally all whites I get i feed to my pet who eats amazons budget (seriously it still costs that much to get a divine pet? An upgrade costs a god damn kidney!) Don't mind me this is just my yearly rant about this game with amazing potential but horrible execution. I've loved exalt but it's the little details that really matter in the end
I definitely agree that potion drops need a nerf across the board. Life has the most value, so deca makes all exaltation dungeons drop life. But now since they all drop life, it actually has the least value, especially for players who grind discord raids for the whites and ignore the potions.
Change my mind. The Shatters are supposed to one of endgame dungeons, focused around the att stat exaltations, that is supposed to be a big kingdom with 3 main bosses who are powerful as fuck and everything has been infected by void. Besides the HP scaling being WAY too much, rouge enemy being barely noticable and enemy respawning seeming like a good idea but not much fitting for realm tbh, the dungeon is as perfect as it is right now, and people are mad about it because they can't easily raid it in 10 minutes without any struggle like Halls/Void.
By reworking the dungeons deca destroyed the feel of rotmg this is why many veterans left cuz every dungeon is a clusterf uck of patterns and fakely difficult seems like forced
Discords are slowly killing rotmg. Whats the point of being in realms ( besides events like keyper and o3 ) when i can just go to discords and do like any exalt dungeons 5x faster? My honestly only problem with discords is that it discourages fun in the game. I don't see how doing discord runs is fun when you just don't care and can easily do exalt dungs which are "end game" even o3. I really want to do some public exalt dungeons BUT 99% nobody goes in because they recognize the biggest problem ( perhaps ) in realm and that is discords. Im surprised that nobody wants to go in public lost halls or fungals just because discords exist, like the dungeons aren't even hard if you have good understanding of the game. Imo discords brainwashed the whole community into never doing public dungeons unlike the old days and made realms almost 100% irrelevant. Almost nobody does exalt dungs public because they recognize that discords do em 5x faster. Whats the point of a Mmorpg game if you never want to do public stuff?
i do public nests, fungals, and mbcs in the realm with like 7 other random people constantly lol, idk what you mean, alot of people go into public dungeons.
@@dimitri674 5-15 ppl isn't a lot. This comment is about how discords discouraged most of ppl to do public exalt dungs. I know some people do but if you compare the quantity its very clear 90% just do disc runs.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but imo the perma death aspect of ROTMG keeps me away and keeps most legit players out of hard content, it just makes the prospect of doing most dungeons way more risky than it should be, what are you odds that you, as a legit player, will live through enough end game dungeons to obtain a single white bag, the amount of equipment you are likely to lose to *maybe* obtain something good is soooo stacked against you, unless you are literally in the top 1% of skill levels. I have two suggestions that would actually get me to play the game again I think 1. remove loss of equipment on death, keep character death 2. add some kind of equipment durability and repair system This would still make dying cost more than most other games, still requiring you to re-level and pot up your character when you die, but would take out the insane cost of losing items that took 100s of runs to obtain, otherwise why would you ever take it out of your chest?
The only unique aspect of this game is that its a permadeath game. Removing that aspect of the game just completely nullifies the entire design and unique aspect to the game. Yes, it is also keeping it from being a mainstream popular game, but that doesn't mean removing permadeath makes it better. I'd prefer if the game actually respected my time and money instead of what its doing right now
It's kinda sad that it is true that most people are turned away by the permadeath. My friends doesn't really wanna play this game with me because they easily get frustrated by dying and losing all progress. I enjoy the game personally because it makes me feel the adrenaline and having the sense of achievement of getting good items and being just better. It's just that not everybody like bullet hell games like this and Touhou. My friends would rather play Genshin and get big booba anime girls. Sadge.
@@TheRealAstro_ It is 'unique' feature, however I would argue that the current balance is not only stopping it from reaching a larger audience, it's stopping it from being a better game in general, regardless of it's reach. However I will say there have been many games that have had permadeath in the past, it's not a ROTMG exclusive. And I think, while it sounds cool, and can create cool moments *sometimes,* true permadeath is bad design, imo. Especially in an MMO. There is a reason *so* many people hack in this game. Even games like OSRS had to *heavily* scale back the death penalties they had, and even dieing in the wilderness in that game isn't as punishing as dieing can be in RotMG.
@@conniescurse7325 Just because the game is bad doesn't mean permadeath is bad. If you want to play a popular game go play a popular game, ROTMG is obviously going to be niche
@@TheRealAstro_ I play plenty of niche games, I've played plenty of ROTMG too, hundreds of hours actually. Just sharing my opinion, I think this game could be a lot better without those mechanics, and I think a lot of other people feel the same way. And honestly even without those mechanic ROTMG would still be an insanely unique game in it's own right, the game that ROTMG could be is not something I can just go and get somewhere else.
I love how long it takes it’s so cool and it is more of the experience of fighting the damn thing then getting pots. You can max life and mana in an hour. But fighting these powerful epic bosses is so cool and gives you high adrenaline. This game became more focused around just getting the best loot rather than enjoying the fight, hence discord runs. I think if they introduced some “solo” mode where it reduced the amount of enemies hugely, and made the bosses quicker but still just as dangerous, it would prompt more players to play. But make it so you can choose if you want the easier one or the harder one if players want even more of a challenge. Dont ask me how they would do this but it’s just my idea.
The fight is pretty cool. But imagine getting a gatk and gdef for that fight. When you've done the forgotten king which is harder than O3 due to the sheer amount of time it takes(O3 staggers make it hella easier) and get a glife it's pretty fking sad
Personally I think that it's the lost halls that is far too easy for what it gives, and the shatters is good how it currently is. A few Key quality of life changes and maybe an alternate route for the second part and it will be a perfect dungeon.
Maybe a short gauntlet where you have to punch through dense amounts of dangerous enemies, relying on debuffs such as paralyze and slow to deal with it. If you take too long with the fight, the door infront closes.
@@yms6892 yes? the more mana you have the more ability uses you have and thus the more dps you can consistently lay out. do you also think wisdom isn't an offensive stat for sorcerer?
There are plenty of bros in the community. Some slaughter O3 for breakfast, some struggle to get through DDocks alive. Saying that you want Shatters to look more appealing is alright, I don't think anyone would disagree with hoping for something better. Hoping that everything else gets nerfed so that Shatters looks more appealing in comparison is a very hot take in a game where death consumes shit straight out of the game's economy constantly, especially coming from someone who seems to actually be in the devs line of sight consistently. While this point on its own isn't really worth making a big deal of, I do think that you should be careful about saying things that the devs could get bad ideas from considering the influence you seem to have, be it over the devs or the playerbase. There is at least s o m e real weight behind the things you say.
I ended up typing out this whole entire extra spiel I had that would address that gripe directly, but it ended up detracting from my main point too much, so I decided to cut it out and put it down here: - - - - - That all aside, I think that the dungeon could probably be made more satisfying if they added a robust in-game trading board. Being able to quickly and easily convert basic drops into whatever you want by posting or responding to offers in game would streamline the experience. Farming a dungeon like the Shatters could be a decent baseline income with tradable resources like GLifes and whatnot to keep the dungeon worthwhile between white-bags. I haven't personally got a good feel for what the Shatters baseline rewards are, but I feel like it would not take much tweaking with this change. It seems like there are a decent chunk of people that believe life pots are too common, and there are also plenty that seem to think these kinds of dungeons are entirely inaccessible. The real balance of the potions probably isn't something that one could make an accurate or unbiased statement on without data released from the devs themselves about potion drop/consume counts. Either way it would help make sure items get into the hands of people who need them the most. Endgame players don't have to touch old stuff they don't care about anymore, and new players can get themselves built up to participate more effectively in the cool stuff. Even if there are too many life pots to go around, that just sets them as the gold standard for everything else. If you're already used to trading a lot and don't see the value, it's still cumbersome and requires a decent chunk of time away from grinding, whereas a board would make any transaction instant, either posting an offer or filling it out yourself. As for how a trading board would interact with your inventory, the first sensible thing I could think of is simply to just have two 16 unit inventories, one for selling and one for buying. Anything you sell as a packaged offer would take up slots in the selling section, and whatever you're buying would reserve the relevant buying inventory slots. Similarly, you could only fill an offer that you have buying slots for. Then simply transfer from the buy slots to your inventory directly after everything is done and you want your stuff. I could see MTX being used to expand trading inventory so that DECA doesn't feel like they're giving away too much free space with a board like this, but 16 slots for each seems like the bare minimum for functioning.
These are my thoughts (facts) as a casual, non-hardcore player who played since 2011 (People who disagree with me are incels who have 9k+ hours put into the game and run massive discord/guild runs all day) Difficulty - the problem is Shatters aint even the "ultimate" endgame like O3 (despite shatters being longer and arguably harder). The difficulty curve between exalt dungeons (discounting cult) and something like the tomb is insanely drastic, and the old shatters sort of made that gap. Shatters as well as other exalt dungeons is almost impossible without having a cybernetic nervous system, having done dozens of attempts on throwaways, and massive discord groups. All exalt dungeons except cult require some form of guild/discord planning (Which normally involves DPS meta requirements) and cant just be ran/learned naturally. Its bad game design when one must learn a boss or dungeon through a source outside the game, like listening to a RL or having to watch a guide. With retro this wasnt a problem since almost every boss had a easy learnable pattern and making a mistake while learning that pattern didnt insta tap you unless you were a melee right infront of Bes or O2 for the first time. Dying is apart of the learning experience but becomes flat out stupid when it forcibly makes you die dozens of times as the only way to learn, especially when something like shatters is so long to get through. HP scaling is also a issue, the dungeon is far to lengthy and is longer and more tedious then osanc (not counting realm clearing/runes/castle/cellar) which is meant to be harder. Dungeon / Setting - The dungeon is the most aesthetically pleasing dungeon in the game from enemies to blocks and makes O3 and LH look outdated in comparison, anyone thinking old shatts is better is just nostalgic impulses. Item textures also got good reworks. Personally im dont mind the new crown sprite, it looks more balanced in its 8x8 slot. The dungeons layout and clearing premise are examples of what more dungeons should do in realm, albiet less long. Enemies respawning is not as problematic as LH, but still resorts in much longer runs and less purpose in clearing. Respawns should be nerfed in some way, like only respawning once or only when moving the generators. Bosses - Bridge Sentinel is the only boss that doesnt really need any fixing since the fight is shorter and there's easily learnable patterns, starting off slower and getting more intense as the fight progresses. Twilight Archmage starts off far to extreme and gives you almost no breathing room in some of its phases. Forgotten King summons dozens of different crystals almost instantly around the arena which can easily pop you, barely giving time to memorize it. The void mode is extremely RNG based with the phases and patience should only happen once. There's simply to many phases and attacks to keep track of, and iirc forgotten king has the most projectiles out of any boss by far. Most of these fights are way to tedious even for endgame standard to the point where its not even fun. Its a huge problem when many bosses have way to many patterns to learn. Loot / Lore - The shatters loots garbage for its difficulty and most of the new white bag items feel to niche/underwhelming to be considered endgame items. Compare them to something like divinity, lumaire, colo sword or even void bow which just have more practicality. Deca is for some reason obsessed with the "Dodge and get slightly better damage" penalties it seems. Its tiered gear drop system is also roughly the same as Colo/Void from LH despite being way harder. Not saying it should drop O3 tops, but considering the difficulty is close to O3, its quite underwhelming. On top of that shatters should take place before LH lore wise, considering void entity controls the forgotten king, and yet the difficulty is considerably harder then LH. Overall - Dungeon improved for the better but loot needs a buff, HP needs a drastic nerf and the later bosses need to be more fair and give your brain time to process what's happening on screen.
For people like me who play the game more casually, without a super active guild (basically a member for the hp in guild hall) and don’t use discord or anything like that, most of these dungeons are off limits. Took years to do my first Halls, Shatters, Cult, 1x Void… all done public.
In public, nobody does O3 or new shatters. So I have had 1 attempt at both and that is it.
Yo you and I are the same :(
I never even was able to do a public halls because after 5 minutes everybody already left and that is kinda sad. The majority of the community is just not into trying to complete hard dungeons in public lobbies
join Asia server, lot of o3 there.
A: you can always try and join a more casual guild. And occasionally do the exalt dungeons with a handful of people.
B: just challenge yourself by trying to solo mid to high tier dungeons. I go down the dungeon fame list and am currently at trying to solo the new d-docks.
I whole heartedly agree with this comment, and I'm a long time veteran of this game. I tried new dungeons by myself and couldn't complete any new content until I got lucky and was picked up by a top guild.
My main issue is that it's an exaltation dungeon. If this were optional content for cool white bags? Awesome, let players who want to do it do it. But 30-60 minute runs of a dungeon you theoretically have to complete 75 times to exalt one stat? Especially when you consider exalting the attack stat is the first stat the game tells you to do as a goal? It's just absurd for the average player.
amazing video as always! im pretty optimistic that this dungeon will get fixed to become more enjoyable, hopefully im not grey and wrinkly by then though.... its starting to show already...
Love your videos.
@@Pomni740 i love u
Well hello seb this dungeon is way too hard for me
@@ChiliPhili smooch
@@sebchoof smooch im watching old rotmg videos haha
Really hope they keep the old Shatters as "The Shattered"
it looks like there was a different story being told with the old shatters, one where the forgotten kingdom was over taken by lava instead of the void so maybe they could still coexist but with slightly different characters and lore
new shatters sucks
Wait till you finally complete the king only to get a purple bag..
pain.
When you get a acrop from sentinel and still say the loot is good. Yikes
See, in other MMO's long dungeons are understandable because after every 1 hour dungeon you get some decent loot, maybe not what you wanted and still need to grind, but you get rewarded. If I can do a nest in 8 minutes instead... what's the fucking point.
@@Ashevlyn there's also always a chance to get 0/3
Oh that's nothing... Kill king and get your guaranteed 1x glife + 1x gvit... or a UBVIT
@@thedoctorepic2337 dude no way! XD yea that shit is a fucking scam, ive beat forgotten king about 3 times to get just pota and a mark trash loot trash dungeon tbh.
@@darknerodn1500 worst part is i got Warmonger on second clear - but i died against xolotl with it 😭
what sucks is for someone like me who missed all the testing has no chance of learning the dungeon without losing all their maxed characters
The testing sucked anyways. I only made it to the 2nd boss and it was too hard and the testing server always disconnect me
just nexus if it's scary... The more you try, the better and further you'll get
@@Wazzup272 That requires you to waste another 30 minutes to get through the dungeon to learn one of dozens of patterns.
@@sherbase then look at a tutorial and practice. It's refreshing having something new and challenging
@@Wazzup272 > then look at a tutorial and practice: Its bad game design to have to be forced to watch a tutorial or learn from somewhere outside of the game itself; a boss pattern should be learned through natural gameplay. The only boss in the dungeon that's learnable through the game itself is Bridge Sentinel because he doesnt have a trillion patterns.
> It's refreshing having something new and challenging: The dungeon itself is not worth the loot and far to long. Difficulty doesnt equate to length.
Great video, look forward to seeing what happens to the Shatters!
I feel like once a year, I come back to this game just to see newer and newer content that requires a whole ass guild in order to do. And it's not just that, it takes tons of planning ahead and even having a fully maxed character to even attempt it. I run this game mostly solo, so when I see a new dungeon like this, I feel like it's impossible to even attempt it. I've been playing this game since 2010, there's been a lot of changes in difficulty over the years, and that's not a bad thing; however it sucks that I can't just take a peek to see what it's all about. I'm not saying every dungeon should be able to be solo'd, it would just be nice to have something that is more public friendly, considering it's a dungeon that drops from a required boss to clear the realm. It's awesome that they put new content in the game like this, but really sucks that you have to scrounge around for a group even willing to invite you to the run to give it a viable attempt.
And you know what? I'm totally okay with content that requires coordination and teamwork of guilds. The only problem is that the guild system is god awful and doesn't encourage this at all. If the guild system was able to properly allow its members to cooperate and collaborate, I think it would be great to have endgame dungeons require some teamwork. At the end of the day, this is a coop game.
Ava isnt actually a hero of oryx
@@tyronethechef4606 might as well be given that we have to clear it to see the locations of other events
Your frustration is understandable, but if all content was beatable to anybody there would be no "endgame". I think it is unfair to expect to experience all of any game's content without putting in the time to get there.
I understand,but it's an MMO,you have to roll with it
Love it when I can’t run a dungeon without being in a discord. :)
Fr i hate that
Skill issue
Yeah it sucks now when avatar dies nobody does the shatters
@@pqr2673 >anime pfp
diagnosis: virgin
@@mistermalignant he's definitely a virgin
New Shatters Preview: wow, i'm so excited to play.
New Shatters Launched: Account Reset*
Haven’t played in over 5 years, decided to check up on the channel and your still at it.
Yes sir
I don't have enough motivation to grind out this game nowadays
But I would love to casually attempt this dungeon, just to see how far i could get
Looks absolutely insane
this looks like a really fun dungeon cant wait till im able to play again
Would you say the flames or switches should drop potions to make it more worth it? -Solz
They could make it guarantee both greater potions for everyone who hits the soulbound threshold.
I've done it a couple of times, and sometimes I only get a cloth. It's ridiculous considering how much of an investment it is just to get to the first twi bosses
Also, I have only gotten to King once, (and died) and from what I've seen, the fight can take nearly an hour alone... so saying that the entire dungeon is only one hour might actually be kind of generous. At least with the original shatters if you were lucky enough to get a group that didn't dirty up the first part, completing the rest didn't take that much time...
hey man, are drops more easy to get? cause a friend of mine got about 3 St and 4 whitebags in about 2 days, and i remember st where like insanely rare only gotten a few in my 5-6 years of playing this game
Glad to see you still gamering
A good change would make the minions to either have a longer respawn timer on the first clear for switches or make them not respawn
Great explanation, I agree that its too focused on doing "what the old shatters did wrong", and not actually optimizing the experience
lol rip exaltations if u havent already exalted attack on all your classes :c
I think the best idea for Deca to make the dungeons quicker would be changing the clear of 2nd boss. I think they should add back rushing not only will it make it faster but it will carry on the aspects of the old shatters. They should make it so one person can rush the flames and once they kill the flame thing the flame goes instantly to boss room instead of them having to drag it all the way back and clear. Now they can add a secret switch and trickster can get that bc trickster is not as useful because bosses cant be decoyed so it would add more of a use to them. If the group doesn't have a trickster then they will have to do the 3rd flame and this one should have the players drag it all the way to boss room, this will allow all runs to require a trickster to make them faster and make it so they don't feel useless.
The difficulty ramp is too high. It forces you to play in a group if you dont wanna mess it up. It reminds me of the raids in destiny.
3:53 is it really meant to be the third hardest, because I think a good point could be made to say that shatts is harder than o3.
I think its a lot but its worth it cause you get to learn the patterns and it makes the game more interactive.
could you make a new potion location guide? or has nothing changed since the last one?
wlab vit atk, sprite/snake/dd dex spd, cd/udl/sew wis def, cult life mana. now u 8/8 so go do exaltation dungeons to max further characters, 03 life mana, nest dex, cc, wis vit(kinda) and Lh atk def.
I'd rather chew glass than spend an hour on a dungeon for a mark
The potion drops in general should be buffed. Everyone agrees that maxing a character is more of a chore than any fun. Since i started playing when maxing was 6/6 I thought maxing was a pain to do, having to farm like 20 snake pits for 1 stat is just dumb. Maxing is just plain time consuming, there is no skill involved (besides life), you just waste time in general farming for pots. You said that they spoiled us with potion drops, but it still takes like 2 full days of farming (Unless you trade for pots) to get a character close to max stats and that character can die to 1 hit in a lot of end game content. If Deca is willing to make end game content just plain instakill maybe they should actually make pots farming less of a chore, like making potions be worth 4 stat points intead of 1 or adding a "public market" feature so people can buy their pots easier.
A game is about having fun and there is no fun in doing easy dungeons for 6 - 12 hours to get 1 character maxxed so he can get instakilled in the new shatters or other endgame content. The reason why people don't do public runs is because its not worth risking those hours it took them farming pots to get one-shotted. Making maxing easier, specially 6/8, would incentivize public runs in general in any dungeon, including the new shatters, and make the game more fun and new player friendly.
PS: I know you can just buy the potions you need, but this means you need to have the trading capital to do so, which is not new player friendly or f2p friendly (because of vault size).
This is big facts. Maxing, takes so long and it is so monotonous. Especially with some classes needing 30+ of potions to max. It such a waste of time to, like you said, grind for hours just to get insta popped
Idk man I kind of like grinding dungeons to max characters. Repetitive discord runs kill the game for me.
This is a F2P MMO with a level cap of 20. Potions are the only way to make sure you aren't op in minutes. Take any other mmorpg game out there and you have to grind for at least dozens of hours before you get to any endgame content. If everyone was able to max their character in only 2 or 3 hours, the only thing to differentiate geared players to weak players are the ultra-rare white drops, which would just promote blind discord runs with max dungeon capacity. Besides I find doing insane pub tombs with a fresh character just to get the life as quick as possible insanely fun. Try to see how fast you can max and all the sudden you are rushing abyss's on a 3/8 wiz and unless you have a divine pet that will get your blood pumping just as much as o3.
@@ethanwolstenholme6664 problem is that the game is perma death, what other permadesth game resets you 100% opon death?
The problem here agian lies, that the people who have spent alot of money, and content creaters like sebchoof, cant run out of characters to die on… because hes spent alot of time that people that has school or work in an actual job that dosent spend 13 hours on a game daily
i think bosses, not just for this new shattera but in general, go invincible too often and for too long. i understand it for like davy jones and horrific creation where to get the boss vulnerable you have to do something but when they just go invincible outside of our control as players it feels like padding. id rather bosses had more health and only very rarely went invincible. like mostly just before they die so they can do their dialogue or something
I have to add something in question to the pots drop since the video says that maybe it's necessary to lower the drop hate, I don't agree with this as it's already difficult for a casual player to get a character 8/8 and with these new dangeons it is even more necessary to have an 8/8 character, I think the problem is more in people who do dugeons in discord , so would be more plausible to increase shatera's drops (whites and potions)
i'm not very good with english by the way .-.
I've done 1st and 2nd, but 3rd oml them orange crystal is a PAIN. Other than that im just salty i didnt completely exalt attack first.
But those sprites though 😩
Honestly this dungeon looks like a time waster for me... before this came out i forged as many crowns as i could to not have to farm for this.. uts are cool but not a deal breaker for me to switch other great uts that you get from other less time wasting sources..
Shatters guide part 2 coming soon
5 years later :(
It's kind of ridiculous. I would say harder than O3 ridiculous but I'm not sure if that's just lack of experience or actual power creep.
Crazy
Every exaltation dungeon should drop their respective gpot. E.g. cult drops gspeed MBC drops gdef
Yea, no.
Why should I farm MBC for a gdef if I can just farm slime gods for 5 min to achieve the same?
And I don't think nerfing godland dungeon pot drops is the right approach. Currently rains are worth a lot, making it quite easy for noobs to make money and get gear. If you nerfed small dungeons and buffed hard dungeons, the gap between noob and average imbecile would be even larger.
@@kABUSE1 I mean you wont only be farming for pots but also exalts
@@kABUSE1 He currently drops def lol soooooo it'd be an upgrade
@@mooncalf_4534 and mana, and att, and life
yes
bicki deca said they wanted this to be 2nd hardest lol
Turns out there *is* a secret switch, but it makes things LONGER...
Me who still wasn't used to the old shatters.
Bro what's this new dungeon?
Current shares needs 4x the amount of loot it drops right now, and the bosses need to drop 3 of both greater pots upon completion. That way you aren’t wasting your time and you also have a decent chance at getting some great loot for completing such a difficult dungeon.
the fact that people still value tradable items when O3 has thrown the price of glife into dirt and public dupe methods have flooded in the market even more so with the existing duped items is fucking beyond me. It’s an endgame dungeon, you’re suppose to be doing it for a challenge, UT loot and exalts.
Wouldn't be surprised if a meta emerged where the terrible players who play this game purchase a service to get them a UT from the shatters, the mace in particular, and dupe it for them, because they are so bad at playing the game they need someone else to do it for them and dupe it for them because they can't survive with cheats.
Zzayy it mean that exists yes, but what does that have to do with said context?
@@vryyyx This is a terrible comment. Assuming what you mean by "said" is referring to your first post, not only am I able to answer that question in complete clarity (it reflects what you had said about duping and cheating as a whole in the game and how it will impact the game directly), your statement had mentioned cheating and dupes, separate and off context from my rebalancing idea in my original post. If by "said" you meant my first post, it's a reply to your post so it would have no correlation. Both follow-up messages did not have context because you had branched off and I had commented on that.
Glide and gmana isn’t a problem... it’s the potions in between such as wis , spd vit that are too hard to come by because no one spends all day grinding snakes and udl a like they do o3s. A new something is needed to farm those pots more efficiently because it puts people off the game having to grind all day for Max and losing it in potentially under a second if u make the wrong move
What they need to do is get rid of pbags. If you put in the work and time to survive a dungeon, and you contribute your part to the dmg and completion, you should always get a potion. It is total BS that void runs can give you only a mark regardless of the damage you have done to boss.
It’s to make sure people don’t leech. They gotta put in their 20% hp scale or whatever it is to earn their loot. Otherwise it would be an easier fight for everyone else if they weren’t there. But definitely downgrading the threshold
@@jamiewigg2133 there is no such threshold. Once you get your soulbound damage in by hitting the boss like 5 times, it's purely up to rng if you get actual loot or just a mark.
I think the main problem is a good amount of the end game dungeons in the game take about 15 ish minutes and this is one of the only things in the game that double if not triple that time, bosses need to give better loot keep em hard as is, make it so the long part is the boss not the geting to the boss, and this is just a me thing but yo can the top 3 hardest dungeons drop like some nutty tire of pot? No just me? ya it's a just me thing.
I'm all for more interesting bullet patterns, but I feel like the risk to reward is weak. I also really don't wanna have to find a fully coordinated group just to run a dungeon.
Aye maybe we shouldn’t ask the deep questions in the end!
Call of help : buff the horrific sorcerer set
I do think that Deca was expecting this exact reaction from most players, and it was kinda part of their plan. It seems Deca is trying to create a true endgame. Let me explain.
Besides O3 (which has some flaws I'll get into later), the shatters is one of the only true endgame dungeons. It caters to what endgame players want: Powerful whites, exaltations, and a challenge. This dungeon probably won't be appealing to a large majority to the players, only the ones that have everything else they want. And Deca is giving them a run for their money.
In terms of optimization, I don't think there is much that can be done. The dungeon is in its infancy, but Deca has already shown that they want to make sure the dungeon doesn't get cheesed. They did this by removing a safe spot in the Archmage's fire finale. This is similar to deca's fix to the celestial safe spot, but O3 was still turned into a joke by the stagger and counter feature (which Deca has said they will be reworking, making O3 much less steamrollable). I have been working on optimizations, but besides group knowledge and better pathing there isn't much to be done. The king fight has a multitude of damage caps that force the players to go through the phases, so the fight can be shorter for high dps groups compared to low dps groups not hitting the damage caps, but not as much as other dungeons with no damage caps. A few minutes will be taken off the time, but not enough to appeal to non-endgame players.
I have died my fair share in the dungeon (35 completes 12 deaths), but I don't think any of them were the game's fault. It was my lack of knowledge, lack of skill, or my reluctance to nexus. The difficulty feels much more pure than most other endgame dungeons, with instapops and debuffs being used few and far between and with good placement.
I don't think that shatters is going to get much better aside from the hp scaling fixes, but that's just something the community is going to have to adapt to. I hope with the fixes they plan on doing to O3 it will be similar.
Thanks for reading my rant, I appreciate your time and am happy to discuss and acknowledge opinions, as well as change my own.
I agree. Fights like O3 really get a lot easier with a good group, sometimes to the point where you just wait and in mostly the same spot with the occasional strafe and complete the dungeon. You really see how hard it is when you actually get to solo it and you have to dodge and manage the boss' movement at the same time. Decoys also play a huge role in how easy a fight becomes if the boss aggros directly on people and that is something that shatters also doesnt allow (at least in sentinel). This fight, despite long, actually feels fair to any group size and non-cheesable like other bosses. Theres not much you can do to triviallize the dungeon so in comparison it takes longer but this is something that would be for the better in general, instead of us being used to 3 minute o3 with minimal dodging. Its almost like cheating but without cheating just so we get the shiny white bag that we want.
I sometimes forget how enjoyable dungeons like LoD can be if you actually solo it or with a couple friends and try to take as little damage as possible. It actually feels fun to do and gives me the same enjoyment as bullet hell games despite not being endgame but its easy to forget about such stuff when we are so focused on getting to the end asap to have our lootbox moment.
The huge giant enormous problem most people have with shatters is that attack exalts take so goddamn long now. People who previously got 5/5 on all their characters in shatts get an advantage, while the others have to slog through hours of the dungeon to just get one exalt with high risk of losing a character.
@@maganashaker167 Exaltations were never meant to be an end goal, even DECA said that. They're meant to be something you work up towards in the background, as in, you want to do said dungeon for whatever reason (whites, fun, marks, etc) and accumulate exaltations. Since there is no endgame after o3 and getting the latest gear, people use exaltations as their main objective but this is wrong. And regarding the advantage of people who did the other shatters, all the power to them. Early bird gets the worm and they worked for it, now they get to reap the rewards.
So the question becomes, not "why does it take so long just to get 1 exaltation?" but rather "why does it take so long to complete this dungeon?" to which I answer that this takes time because not only does it display the most amount of bosses out of any other dungeon in the game (3 separated bosses instead of 1 per dungeon or 1 followed by another one, such as Void Entity after MBC, or agglomerated bosses like in the Tomb where all 3 count as 1 fight). This means that shatters is almost like 3 dungeons in a row, which obviously will always take more time than any other single boss dungeon but personally I like it. It might take more time than other dungeons but honestly, its where variety lies and having something unique for once is greatly appreciated. This isn't to say that it can't be tweaked in some areas (such as minion HP scaling, showing the monument locations/how many are left to open, blobombs ew) but in general i think its better to have this kind of variety rather than the same old layout of dungeon - boss - end of dungeon. And not to mention that if everyone contributes to clearing every place, it will be a lot quicker. If people spread out over the village to find the monument, they will find them in no time and activate the bridge well under 1-2 mins, the problem here is that people are afraid too, so they dont help out but with time this will get better. Then people can form 3 groups to clear for the reactors instead of making 1 group that goes to every reactor one at a time (i get that HP scaling might be an issue here, which is why HP scaling should be fixed). And lastly the last part for the forgotten king already has the group gathered so theres no splitting needed. After that you get to boss and done.
I also forgot to mention the fact that these bosses are immune to phase skipping much like FERAL. This also adds time because you have to wait for them to end their phase. This is something that rotmg players are used to doing with the huge amounts of DPS, which turns a boss like O3 in a joke because of how little time he has to shoot bullets. In a way you could say we've become spoiled with how quick dungeons are over by deleting any boss with ease. This dungeon counters the mechanic of phase skipping which obviously is not something most are accostumed to, and with that it makes it longer. People just have to get used to it and I hope that they make future bosses like this as well (lategame dungeons that is, i wouldnt see any use for this to be present in a snake pit).
@@Waterwolf221 YES. Decoy manipulation and lack of dps walls are what make the dungeon way too steamrollable. If they consider these things the dungeon is gonna be much more comparable to shatters, and certainly harder. Solo O3's are some of the most fun O3's I've done, and it's these reasons specifically that I want the meta to change.
100% agree, shatters is way too long and the loot isn’t even good (asides from some white bags). You can do a void and even o3 and get more loot for less time. I feel bad for people grinding 75 current shatters for exalts
I actually laughed at the start nice
New shatters is trash, current speed run solo is 40minutes of efficient gameplay. The loot was only 6 gpots waste of time.
I said it in testing and I'll say it again.
This is not worth 1 attack exaltation
wow
I just think that the bosses are too tanky and dangerous and the minions have the same problem, they have nerfed both so I'll have to try it now but I definitely don't like the idea of exaltation dungeons becoming harder and needing discords to do consistently.
You're wrong about the difficulty, Deca stated they wanted it to be harder than LH and easier than O3.
Definitely harder than LH, but I don't see how some of the bosses are easier than O3 lol (and O3 is already a difficult boss, just saying)
Not just the bosses, but the dungeon itself, probably? Well, I guess it's just about the bosses, but still.
Who is shatters
They stated it’s the 2nd hardest not 3rd
My primary issue with Realm as a whole is how awful radial blasts are in a perma-death bullet hell. I think if more funny sentinel slams are going to be added, I think healing should be decreased, and health pools should be increased, but that would require a minor to complete rework of how all of that is implemented, and there's already a lot to change.
Radial blasts are fine, just dont stay near the boss too much. You have moments to deal damage as a melee. Imo the problem are enemies like Blobombs that add nothing interesting to the fight except an insta death if you dotn have space to dodge elsewhere, not to mention their high range & fast travelling bullets coupled with the fact that they keep spawning everywhere in the arena during any phase.
@@Waterwolf221 True. The slimes in the new Avatar of Forgotten King are also so annoying that most people will mess up and sit on the bomb. It's intentional so that people avoid cheesing it but it's so annoying and weeks pass and many 8/8 still die there
they need to just find a way to speed up the dungeon. O3 took long at first but are usuallly 20-30 minutes now while i dont see shatters changing
Even with free rune events, I can do 2 osancs in like 20 minutes
Y333s duuude
i think that most of the dungeons need to do it how wlab and ddocks do their life drops
thicket does it well
nest is stupidly op for life
tomb rework :eyes:
cult should have all pots in the pool with lower chance for life and mana
void should get high chance for gwis gdef 1life and 1mana with lower chance of getting 1glife and/or 1gmana
also pre o3 bosses kinda drop waaay too much shit, just lower it to 1life + 1gmana or something similar and maybe increase o3 loot if so
you get the point
I dislike how everything has to be harder and harder with each dungeon.
Part of why I personally quit
I find it kinda sad how pretty much, Deca only cares about endgame content nowadays. Sure, it's a good challenge, but for some reason, they fail to acknowledge there are less skilled/casual (like me) players, who can't beat these dungeons.
@@Aranmath yeah I really enjoyed playing Realm "casually" ( I was still grinding like crazy and hoarding stuff but I really liked being able to do so on my own or with a handful of people for the most part ) .
This is also part of the reason why I dislike the nerf to pets made many months ago. The other reason being that I feel ripped off on the money I spent...
@@deejayf69 The nerf to pets was just bad, imo. They wanted to make Realm a more challenging experience, but what about the people who spent tons of time grinding for fame/spent a lot of money getting a divine pet? (Right now, I'm trying to get a Legendary one.)
@@Aranmath I don't think its that they fail to acknowledge it, its that all their low/mid game content has been much less successful than new endgame stuff. especially monetarily. dungeons like the 3rd dimension and HTT barely turned heads, while LH and o3 became massive talking points even years after they released, which keep people playing the game and buying more keys.
The truth of the matter is rotmg really doesn't cater well to new players coming in so alot of what deca tries to do is about keeping existing players in and spending. Even exaltations partly get people to buy keys in bulk for dungeons people were otherwise not even considering just for the sake of the stat buffs.
Too much man!
I somewhat disagree on the whole nerfing the potion thing. In my perfect world, maxing stats would be much easier, getting to level 20 is much much faster, and a lot of dungeon gets harder but at the same time not long.
I solo'd a snake pit the other day at level 12 or something and Stheno did not even give me 1/4 of a level
NO I do not think we were spoiled, if anything, the normal glands dungeons encourage soloing because they aren't guaranteed for everyone, which can be a pain if you're a new player.
Epic dungeons can now give gpots, but you aren't guaranteed to the gpot you want, if you're in a group.
Ok I want to get this off my chest. If i'm being honest i think the problem is not that the new shatters are difficult, but that IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Imagine spending more than 10 min playing a dungeon so that at the end of 50 people only 2 have wb and 10 pots, the rest NOTHING. So who would want to get into groups to complete the dungeon for nothing?
There are two options that DECA can do; that everyone who enters at least receive the reward of pots and some pp wb, or simply REMOVE the limit of exaltation. What do i mean by this? That in order to exalt yourself no longer need 8/8, at leats 6/8 would have to be the new limit if they continue to make dungeons more complex than before.
first of all, white bags are never guaranteed, it's purely up to luck. There can be a run where literally every person gets a crown, although it's incredibly unlikely. Secondly, requiring you to not be 8/8 would allow noobs to enter runs and leech and still get exaltations, which removes some of the value of getting exalts as an achievement.
Done almost 40+ not a single white bag.
Short answer: Kinda
Long answer:No, Harder Daddy~ I've got a necro ST set and i want to MmMMMmMmMmmM LOse IT In 3 SeConDs
I would love if DECA made end game dungeons that are accessible to the public, these "raid" style dungeons are a big reason I have nearly quit altogether.
if they’re going to keep this dungeon this long they should at least make the loot better, or if they’re not they should reduce the length
From my point of view: this game is fast-paced. Dungeons take seconds to only a handful of minutes at most. The only exception are some of the endgame dungeons, which can last sometimes into double digits.
However, the new shatters takes too long after the first boss. I think the village and first boss are perfectly paced for a single-boss fight. The problem comes in when you have to do this MULTIPLE times in ONE dungeon. The only other dungeons who do this (Fungal/CC and Lost Halls/Cult/Void) count for MULTIPLE exaltation instead of just ONE. So the length can be justified in the other dungeons, just not this one.
TL;DR Why should this atk exaltation take way longer than all the other exaltations?
Dps exalt idk
@@happyman6701 Counter Point: Nests for Dex exalt
Plus, the life exalt being an O3 complete I think is fair, since life is a very sought-after stat, next to DPS
@@333Rich33 life is sought after: horn damage robe and EP
I hate to say it
But I kind of miss Kabam days of the game
For me, the game is nota as rewarding as it was before…
Needless to say
Of all I miss the wild shadow days of the game
I personally miss the pre-ioc/ooc days.
This was made 105% for discord animals...
Amongus
I can probably finish noob dungeon such faster than Talwar but Talwar is owning me at Shatters which mayters more xD
Man, after hearing about all those greedy, scummy and lazy companies, it really seems like we have been blessed with DECA, a team making TOO MUCH content for its game. Sure they make mistakes, but it could be so much worse. I've rarely seen a video game company make so many changes to a game and have the community consider most of it to be this great or at least in the right direction
Y DECA is truly a blessing focusing just on the endgame while new players give up quickly cuz they don't know what to do...and solo players who are not guildgins don't do endgame dungeons they are stuck to mid game dungeons +all DECA is doing is reskins of items in all events or campaigns you won't see 1 new item just reskins
Amazing dungeon but the loot drop rate is so bad that you just don't wanna do it in public run. Mastering this dungeon will take so long for newbies like me and farming for whites will surely suck for anyone whos only doing public runs
I hecking agree. Deca did toooo dang much. It's omega crazy loot, great, but if it's not worth it who cares?
Ima be honest, grinding for potions was never fun and never will. Remember what rotf did? You get buffed drop rates on potions so you could begin playing the game faster. It's also less fun getting less stuff so definitely a no on nerfing potion drops across the board.
I just hate dungeons that you can't complete without having knowledge of all the attack patterns of bosses and enemies beforehand and there's instapops everywhere. Didn't know the red sword on sentinel curves to the side instead of going straight? Ded.
Yes lol
As someone who has never been in the new shatters I can agree that the dungeon is too hard,
Even the avatar himself is hard now, lmao.
like you said. the art of the enemies and the dungeon is great, but it's just not worth it to go into the shatters because of the high risk low reward.
Avatar is fine. What really fucks the experience are the bombs.
@@Aranmath exactly,
Well, at least according to the Q&A on the official discord from a day or two ago, they do indeed have plans to nest the enemy HP. Was much needed, and I’m assuming they were just waiting for the dust to settle so they could get a better idea of peoples issue with the dungeon rather than their knee jerk reaction.
Also I do agree about endgame dungeons needing their potion drops adjusted. Stuff like O3s drop way too many potions for their own good, especially considering the frequency of the other loot you get from them. They could straight up halve the potions from it and it would be fine because there’s already lots of other reasons to run the dungeon.
I for one agree that potion drops need a nerf across the board in endgame dungeons. Keep the guaranteed pots for soloers, but the group odds should at least be lowered. And in some, like the nest. I don’t think life should even be in the loot pool.
Imagine finishing a dungeon after 1 hour and you get 1 mana. That's IF you finish the dungeon lmao
Thats how I feel about this game, my mastery of the game is rewarded with very lackluster loot.
Its not even about getting white bags, pots and normal equipment is given so scarcely for no reason which makes levelling characters SO SLOW! Like come give me more than 1 pot from my 1000th snake pit :(
And by the time you do dungeons like the shatters you don't even need the pots cuz you're basically maxed.
Pacing and progression in this game is purposely so slow to slowly ease you into buying gold idk it feels that way sometimes. And plus stop saying "u get a character slot every 30 days be grateful that you get something for free >:( " as I get my 30th dye from the daily reward. Literally all whites I get i feed to my pet who eats amazons budget (seriously it still costs that much to get a divine pet? An upgrade costs a god damn kidney!)
Don't mind me this is just my yearly rant about this game with amazing potential but horrible execution. I've loved exalt but it's the little details that really matter in the end
I definitely agree that potion drops need a nerf across the board. Life has the most value, so deca makes all exaltation dungeons drop life. But now since they all drop life, it actually has the least value, especially for players who grind discord raids for the whites and ignore the potions.
Change my mind.
The Shatters are supposed to one of endgame dungeons, focused around the att stat exaltations, that is supposed to be a big kingdom with 3 main bosses who are powerful as fuck and everything has been infected by void.
Besides the HP scaling being WAY too much, rouge enemy being barely noticable and enemy respawning seeming like a good idea but not much fitting for realm tbh, the dungeon is as perfect as it is right now, and people are mad about it because they can't easily raid it in 10 minutes without any struggle like Halls/Void.
Change my mind: discord dungeon
By reworking the dungeons deca destroyed the feel of rotmg this is why many veterans left cuz every dungeon is a clusterf uck of patterns and fakely difficult seems like forced
Yes… yes it is it’s way to much
Discords are slowly killing rotmg. Whats the point of being in realms ( besides events like keyper and o3 ) when i can just go to discords and do like any exalt dungeons 5x faster? My honestly only problem with discords is that it discourages fun in the game. I don't see how doing discord runs is fun when you just don't care and can easily do exalt dungs which are "end game" even o3. I really want to do some public exalt dungeons BUT 99% nobody goes in because they recognize the biggest problem ( perhaps ) in realm and that is discords. Im surprised that nobody wants to go in public lost halls or fungals just because discords exist, like the dungeons aren't even hard if you have good understanding of the game. Imo discords brainwashed the whole community into never doing public dungeons unlike the old days and made realms almost 100% irrelevant. Almost nobody does exalt dungs public because they recognize that discords do em 5x faster. Whats the point of a Mmorpg game if you never want to do public stuff?
i do public nests, fungals, and mbcs in the realm with like 7 other random people constantly lol, idk what you mean, alot of people go into public dungeons.
@@dimitri674 5-15 ppl isn't a lot. This comment is about how discords discouraged most of ppl to do public exalt dungs. I know some people do but if you compare the quantity its very clear 90% just do disc runs.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but imo the perma death aspect of ROTMG keeps me away and keeps most legit players out of hard content, it just makes the prospect of doing most dungeons way more risky than it should be, what are you odds that you, as a legit player, will live through enough end game dungeons to obtain a single white bag, the amount of equipment you are likely to lose to *maybe* obtain something good is soooo stacked against you, unless you are literally in the top 1% of skill levels.
I have two suggestions that would actually get me to play the game again I think
1. remove loss of equipment on death, keep character death
2. add some kind of equipment durability and repair system
This would still make dying cost more than most other games, still requiring you to re-level and pot up your character when you die, but would take out the insane cost of losing items that took 100s of runs to obtain, otherwise why would you ever take it out of your chest?
The only unique aspect of this game is that its a permadeath game. Removing that aspect of the game just completely nullifies the entire design and unique aspect to the game. Yes, it is also keeping it from being a mainstream popular game, but that doesn't mean removing permadeath makes it better. I'd prefer if the game actually respected my time and money instead of what its doing right now
It's kinda sad that it is true that most people are turned away by the permadeath. My friends doesn't really wanna play this game with me because they easily get frustrated by dying and losing all progress. I enjoy the game personally because it makes me feel the adrenaline and having the sense of achievement of getting good items and being just better. It's just that not everybody like bullet hell games like this and Touhou. My friends would rather play Genshin and get big booba anime girls. Sadge.
@@TheRealAstro_ It is 'unique' feature, however I would argue that the current balance is not only stopping it from reaching a larger audience, it's stopping it from being a better game in general, regardless of it's reach.
However I will say there have been many games that have had permadeath in the past, it's not a ROTMG exclusive. And I think, while it sounds cool, and can create cool moments *sometimes,* true permadeath is bad design, imo. Especially in an MMO. There is a reason *so* many people hack in this game.
Even games like OSRS had to *heavily* scale back the death penalties they had, and even dieing in the wilderness in that game isn't as punishing as dieing can be in RotMG.
@@conniescurse7325 Just because the game is bad doesn't mean permadeath is bad. If you want to play a popular game go play a popular game, ROTMG is obviously going to be niche
@@TheRealAstro_ I play plenty of niche games, I've played plenty of ROTMG too, hundreds of hours actually.
Just sharing my opinion, I think this game could be a lot better without those mechanics, and I think a lot of other people feel the same way.
And honestly even without those mechanic ROTMG would still be an insanely unique game in it's own right, the game that ROTMG could be is not something I can just go and get somewhere else.
Completely disagree. Wish more dungeons were longer and harder like this. Tired of just farming 100 dungeons super quick. Gets boring fast.
I love how long it takes it’s so cool and it is more of the experience of fighting the damn thing then getting pots. You can max life and mana in an hour. But fighting these powerful epic bosses is so cool and gives you high adrenaline. This game became more focused around just getting the best loot rather than enjoying the fight, hence discord runs. I think if they introduced some “solo” mode where it reduced the amount of enemies hugely, and made the bosses quicker but still just as dangerous, it would prompt more players to play. But make it so you can choose if you want the easier one or the harder one if players want even more of a challenge. Dont ask me how they would do this but it’s just my idea.
The fight is pretty cool. But imagine getting a gatk and gdef for that fight. When you've done the forgotten king which is harder than O3 due to the sheer amount of time it takes(O3 staggers make it hella easier) and get a glife it's pretty fking sad
Personally I think that it's the lost halls that is far too easy for what it gives, and the shatters is good how it currently is. A few Key quality of life changes and maybe an alternate route for the second part and it will be a perfect dungeon.
Maybe a short gauntlet where you have to punch through dense amounts of dangerous enemies, relying on debuffs such as paralyze and slow to deal with it. If you take too long with the fight, the door infront closes.
Based take
@@asaltedpudding4041 this is basically tablets
Deca actually stated that new Shatters was intended to be harder than void.
why would an attack exaltation be harder than a mana exaltation though? it doesn’t make any sense
@@normandroppedthesoap542 dps is worth more than defensive stats to people these days
@@yms6892 mana in a lot of classes is a offensive stat
@@fafufafu5784 lmao ur srsly comparing attack to mana for offernse
@@yms6892 yes? the more mana you have the more ability uses you have and thus the more dps you can consistently lay out. do you also think wisdom isn't an offensive stat for sorcerer?
There are plenty of bros in the community. Some slaughter O3 for breakfast, some struggle to get through DDocks alive. Saying that you want Shatters to look more appealing is alright, I don't think anyone would disagree with hoping for something better. Hoping that everything else gets nerfed so that Shatters looks more appealing in comparison is a very hot take in a game where death consumes shit straight out of the game's economy constantly, especially coming from someone who seems to actually be in the devs line of sight consistently.
While this point on its own isn't really worth making a big deal of, I do think that you should be careful about saying things that the devs could get bad ideas from considering the influence you seem to have, be it over the devs or the playerbase. There is at least s o m e real weight behind the things you say.
I ended up typing out this whole entire extra spiel I had that would address that gripe directly, but it ended up detracting from my main point too much, so I decided to cut it out and put it down here:
- - - - -
That all aside, I think that the dungeon could probably be made more satisfying if they added a robust in-game trading board. Being able to quickly and easily convert basic drops into whatever you want by posting or responding to offers in game would streamline the experience. Farming a dungeon like the Shatters could be a decent baseline income with tradable resources like GLifes and whatnot to keep the dungeon worthwhile between white-bags.
I haven't personally got a good feel for what the Shatters baseline rewards are, but I feel like it would not take much tweaking with this change.
It seems like there are a decent chunk of people that believe life pots are too common, and there are also plenty that seem to think these kinds of dungeons are entirely inaccessible. The real balance of the potions probably isn't something that one could make an accurate or unbiased statement on without data released from the devs themselves about potion drop/consume counts.
Either way it would help make sure items get into the hands of people who need them the most. Endgame players don't have to touch old stuff they don't care about anymore, and new players can get themselves built up to participate more effectively in the cool stuff. Even if there are too many life pots to go around, that just sets them as the gold standard for everything else.
If you're already used to trading a lot and don't see the value, it's still cumbersome and requires a decent chunk of time away from grinding, whereas a board would make any transaction instant, either posting an offer or filling it out yourself.
As for how a trading board would interact with your inventory, the first sensible thing I could think of is simply to just have two 16 unit inventories, one for selling and one for buying. Anything you sell as a packaged offer would take up slots in the selling section, and whatever you're buying would reserve the relevant buying inventory slots. Similarly, you could only fill an offer that you have buying slots for. Then simply transfer from the buy slots to your inventory directly after everything is done and you want your stuff.
I could see MTX being used to expand trading inventory so that DECA doesn't feel like they're giving away too much free space with a board like this, but 16 slots for each seems like the bare minimum for functioning.
These are my thoughts (facts) as a casual, non-hardcore player who played since 2011 (People who disagree with me are incels who have 9k+ hours put into the game and run massive discord/guild runs all day)
Difficulty - the problem is Shatters aint even the "ultimate" endgame like O3 (despite shatters being longer and arguably harder). The difficulty curve between exalt dungeons (discounting cult) and something like the tomb is insanely drastic, and the old shatters sort of made that gap. Shatters as well as other exalt dungeons is almost impossible without having a cybernetic nervous system, having done dozens of attempts on throwaways, and massive discord groups. All exalt dungeons except cult require some form of guild/discord planning (Which normally involves DPS meta requirements) and cant just be ran/learned naturally. Its bad game design when one must learn a boss or dungeon through a source outside the game, like listening to a RL or having to watch a guide. With retro this wasnt a problem since almost every boss had a easy learnable pattern and making a mistake while learning that pattern didnt insta tap you unless you were a melee right infront of Bes or O2 for the first time. Dying is apart of the learning experience but becomes flat out stupid when it forcibly makes you die dozens of times as the only way to learn, especially when something like shatters is so long to get through. HP scaling is also a issue, the dungeon is far to lengthy and is longer and more tedious then osanc (not counting realm clearing/runes/castle/cellar) which is meant to be harder.
Dungeon / Setting - The dungeon is the most aesthetically pleasing dungeon in the game from enemies to blocks and makes O3 and LH look outdated in comparison, anyone thinking old shatts is better is just nostalgic impulses. Item textures also got good reworks. Personally im dont mind the new crown sprite, it looks more balanced in its 8x8 slot. The dungeons layout and clearing premise are examples of what more dungeons should do in realm, albiet less long. Enemies respawning is not as problematic as LH, but still resorts in much longer runs and less purpose in clearing. Respawns should be nerfed in some way, like only respawning once or only when moving the generators.
Bosses - Bridge Sentinel is the only boss that doesnt really need any fixing since the fight is shorter and there's easily learnable patterns, starting off slower and getting more intense as the fight progresses. Twilight Archmage starts off far to extreme and gives you almost no breathing room in some of its phases. Forgotten King summons dozens of different crystals almost instantly around the arena which can easily pop you, barely giving time to memorize it. The void mode is extremely RNG based with the phases and patience should only happen once. There's simply to many phases and attacks to keep track of, and iirc forgotten king has the most projectiles out of any boss by far. Most of these fights are way to tedious even for endgame standard to the point where its not even fun. Its a huge problem when many bosses have way to many patterns to learn.
Loot / Lore - The shatters loots garbage for its difficulty and most of the new white bag items feel to niche/underwhelming to be considered endgame items. Compare them to something like divinity, lumaire, colo sword or even void bow which just have more practicality. Deca is for some reason obsessed with the "Dodge and get slightly better damage" penalties it seems. Its tiered gear drop system is also roughly the same as Colo/Void from LH despite being way harder. Not saying it should drop O3 tops, but considering the difficulty is close to O3, its quite underwhelming. On top of that shatters should take place before LH lore wise, considering void entity controls the forgotten king, and yet the difficulty is considerably harder then LH.
Overall - Dungeon improved for the better but loot needs a buff, HP needs a drastic nerf and the later bosses need to be more fair and give your brain time to process what's happening on screen.
Rotmg is bad at balance... casual players have almost no chance at all to finish shatta, lh or o3 without discord and thats VERY cringe