06/01/2025: Added English subtitles in closed captions. Another super long and demanding video done. Now... I sleep. Thanks for watching! edit: small correction, as pointed out in the comments, S2 actually gives more DP/sec than S3 (7/20 vs 9/28). Also, I should have compared module vs non-module with her blocking to make the comparison more fair. Live and learn.
Not planning to make something similar with Crownlayer? For "meta" play she's dead on arrival and her niche with s3 in so narrow that 5star executors are better picks more often than anyone would expect when talking about 6stars, but I'm still interested in her, there's some good examples of her usage and I've never seen anyone with good game knowledge talk about her seriously.
@@rw6611 I plan on making a review of CS at some point, but Thorns Alter will be out soon, and that's going to take priority. I also want to catch up on Nymph and Pepe/Narantuya before they come to global. But CS is definitely on the list.
@@xenotyphon technically yes, but, foxes have a fair bit in common with cats as well -- some foxes have vertical pupils for example, so saying 'feline eyes' isnt that wrong either :D
To add to why Texas still seems to be around all these years later in hardcore content: it's all about her start of map support. Something not mentioned was her 2 DP talent. Subtract that from her max pot base cost and module reduction and you have a unit that effectively only costs 5 DP and can pop her skill almost instantaneously with Bagpipe in the squad. Compare this to Vulpisfoglia's peak start of map impact: 12 DP cost (more than double Texas'), no Y module rn but 0 CD helidrop on skill. This means that Texas drops down on the field 7 seconds earlier, pops skill after 2 seconds then can immediately retreat. This puts you 15 DP ahead of Vulpisfoglia at this point in time and you still need to wait another 5s before you would have DP to deploy VF (assuming you were waiting on DP in a high end scenario). In addition to that, one activation of VF's skill only generates 9 DP so to catch up to a skill that generates more DP in a single cast, she has to wait a whole other 28 seconds (18s + the 10s channel of the S3). This is a horrific lag time that would easily break a ton of high risk strategies. So effectively using Texas amounts to an objective 5 second headstart relative to VF and in the worst case scenario it could take her up to 28 seconds to catch up to the same level of DP production. Ultimately just using a VG setup that burst generates more DP then using actual dedicated combat units to fight stuff is simply the superior strategy when it comes down to the wire. There is also the argument for casual content that I can just drop my 9 DP furry with a 5s charge time permanent skill that grants 80% ATK, 2 block, cleave and non-conditional HP regen. Mountain is literally more effective as a vanguard than pretty much every single real vanguard.
@@megugao Same could be said about healers.. its not really about being completed or not, you just have more characters which are more ways to tackle the same enemies we all face.
Absurd quality! Amazing video, usually I'm not interested in reviews or similar stuff but there's a lot of effort and comparations that are actually fair with in depth analysis, solid comparisons, how mechanics work etc, peak content!
He is fully stacked with aspd (if u rbing full dunmeshi its additional 25 aspd buff) and him not having atk buff mean he can hit more before enemies dead. Its really fitting the lore and wel designed in ak kit as well
@@Eusthasia yeah, not having ATK buffs actually ironically does kind of increase his DP generation. It does, sadly, completely remove his ability to fulfill the assassin side of an agent's role, but it's still an interesting twist on the archetype instead of just making all of them the same pseudo-fast redeploy DPS but slightly different (as Ines, Cantabile, and Puzzle all more or less just fulfill that exact same role, just Puzzle deals arts damage, Ines can bind and reveal invisible enemies, and Cantabile's manual deactivation allows for more control with her skill)
Here are my 2 cents: Foxleaf is an incredibly dominant vanguard that imo is easily the #2 best vanguard right now behind Ines. Pure DP is almost never needed, usually in extreme content like CC, but this is already too rare to value highly and that is assuming that CC isn't completely dead in the water. I also argue that in IS and SSS flagbearers are more of a hindrance than a help thanks to them losing block count and not offering much other than DP. TBF in SSS, this is less of an issue nowadays since the mode was nerfed a lot. Smallphi argues that the most valued aspect of a vanguard is pure dp first, utility next. I actually disagree. I find the most important aspect of a vanguard to be what they offer up beyond their DP, with a good DP output being an important 2nd factor. Like I mentioned earlier, in almost no content in the game do you actually need that much DP. DP generation is a QoL to put the squad fast, but in 99% of maps you can win without using any vanguards. If you can win all those maps without insane DP output from Elysium or Myrtle, then why would you waste a squad slot on someone that only gives you DP output? When I use Ines, I enjoy the QoL that her DP gives me, but I mostly enjoy that she binds, does solid damage, decreases the movement speed and especially that she reveals stealthed enemies even after death which is an awesome niche. Enter Foxleaf, she is a pioneer, which I argue is much better in IS and SSS than flagbearers from their trait alone, then provides really close DP number to Myrtle when we include her talent on a regular map... Yeah Myrtle is already dead in the water here, her DP advantage is nowhere high enough to replace a permanent 2 block with those stats of Foxleaf. Then we add a health regen talent, so now Foxleaf doesn't need a medic in a huge amount of maps... Yeah we now relieved some pressure which reduces the need of a medic or other healing source for a few seconds if not indefinitely, so once again the quick dp regen need is reduced a lot. Not to mention camo on s3 Now taking Foxleaf's actual kit, an acceptable slow/stun in a solid range with low uptime on s2. This is not a great skill IMO, but much better than anything Myrtle/Elysium provide IMO. At the same time it provides roughly 1,43 dp/s which almost reaches Myrtle number. See my returning argument here? Barely has less DP than Myrtle but does everything else 500% better. The real winner is S3. Does 3,8k arts dps and 38k total damage, this is a huge amount of dps for a vanguard, and good enough to take into any stage as a sub-dps, if not straightup enough to be your main dps source. Then we add the stuns, huge utility here that can be very valuable in daily content and hard content alike. Once again being so much better than flagbearers. Then we do add a pretty damn solid DP on s3, which is not far off from Myrtle, and we can see why the sheer utility and damage of Foxleaf just is so much more valuable than Myrtle's pure dp regen. Of course Saileach s3 has decent utility, but it just doesn't quite cut it and actually has less DP/s which is the 2nd factor here than Ines/Foxleaf which have both better utility and better dp/s than Saileach S3. Now your counter argument may be: "Why Foxleaf for damage if Wisadel" well if you paid attention to my text, you don't need a vanguard in most situations exactly because we have shit like Wisadel, but that is more of a burner for Myrtle that only gives DP, than Foxleaf which gives DP, DPS and utility." "why Foxleaf for utility if Ela/Shu/Suzuran" again, if you paid attention, the value of Foxleaf is not only having utility, but combining it with good damage and solid dp regen. Realistically the reason you want to use Foxleaf is the same reason that you use Ines, except Foxleaf trades some decent to small amount of utility and dp regen for significantly more stability (not relying on enemy presence) and way more dps. "Why Foxleaf if Ines" well the reality is that you don't need either in most maps, so you probably won't use both in the same squad. Both provide utility and damage, ontop of decent dp/s. Ines overall is better so would be more suitable for most squads as a first vanguard pick. The benefit of Foxleaf is that she is tankier, does more damage and blocks 2 enemies. Another benefit is that Foxleaf does big arts dps, while Ines has decent physical dph at best, meaning that foxleaf will often do better against high defence enemies, especially if enemies come in waves. Key benefit of both Ines and Foxleaf in any squad, is that they will pull their weight even when you need no dp generation at all. "Why Foxleaf if not waifu" no reason lad, ignore her existence if you enjoy the waifus way more. Carry on. "Why do any of these arguments matter, if Foxleaf is waifu" not at all lad, go use her and carry on. This is a huge slab of text now, ***TLDR*** Foxleaf and Ines provide more DP than you need in 99,99% of stages, while providing better utility and or damage than any flagbearer. This is why they are IMO the 2 most dominant vanguards in the game, blowing any flagbearer out of the water. Bagpipe is really good for damage, but does not have any utility and the condition for generating DP can feel restrictive. Damage and utility in a vanguard is most important, then good DP regen which Foxleaf/Ines have is an important 2nd factor. There will be extreme scenario's where you want to use flagbearers, but in the majority of content Foxleaf and Ines will be vastly better. Foxleaf is not the best dps, not the best dp, not the best utility, but she packages them all into one package to an above average extend, just a little less stacked than Ines in some areas with advantages in others, which puts her in a fantastic position for any squad. If you don't need DP, Foxleaf provides a lot of value still. If you need DP but Myrtle gets overwhelmed or the stage disadvantages Ines, Foxleaf is your solution.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful and informative comment! You’re absolutely right-my view that DP comes first and utility/dps second is probably more a reflection of my playstyle than something that holds for everyone. Fingers crossed we’ll see Suzumom shine when the next CC rolls around!
From my experience flagbearers are much better in IS than pioneers. Ely and especially Saileah provide a crapton of utility on most maps, while pioneers without any vanguard items are barely usable because they can't block anything (otherwise they die instantly). Suzumom is exception with her extremely strong stun on low cooldown, she's actually decent pick there, but her being better than Saileah is still very questionable.
@@rw6611 Edit: Clarified myself a bit better, because what I say here may be confusing compared to what I wrote earlier, as none of you can read my mind. From my experience all of the pioneers we have had are not that great either in IS specifically, but awesome in SSS to hold the enemy for a while when the rest of the squad doesn't want to be drawn into your hand. Compared to flagbearer that either give me dp and leak, or block one enemy and leak the next while not being able to kill the first enemy that they are still blocking. I am saying this as a casual vanguardknight player, Vina has been dead in the water for ages. Saga lacks utility and Flametail has a strong niche but the damage isn't quite up there for me. These are issues in IS especially. Suzumom bringing utility, survival and burst arts dps makes her so much better than the previous pioneers, both in hard content, buffable gamemodes like IS and daily content. Foxleaf even does really good damage on the Sarkaz buddha boss, which is really fun and impressive to see. For me Foxleaf is a good alternative to Ines and a straightup superior choice over Bagpipe, which was typically my "vanguard dps choice" if I had the freedom to take her with me. Foxleaf also feels more stacked than Muesli overall, though muesli is a lot more flexible with her summons and can actually do absurd damage with the right clones. so I wouldn't really rule out that Muesli may be a nicer choice in some instances. I have not enjoyed flagbearers in IS since IS3. I tend to prioritise agents nowadays, especially Ines, Muesli maybe for a versatile vanguard pick if I really feel like it (or if she is free) and typically get a free fang and nothing else. I only really take a flagbearer if they are free and I already have Ines or don't feel any rush to get Ines. In IS5 it obviously makes more sense to take Myrtle over Fang every single time though, since Fang really is nothing great, it's just that she is free in all IS while Myrtle had a hope cost. I really wouldn't say that Elysium and Saileach are invalid options, they are still good operators, since they do provide some decent utility and retain a respectable dp/s. But I tend to gravitate to the options I already discussed. I want my vanguards to provide an overall package, I find that Elysium and Saileach fall short compared to Ines, Muesli, Foxleaf.
@@Khroniclas I mean, high rarity flags have "package" with block buff, giving defense, heal, aspd increase, stun, fragile, invis reveal, slow, dp regen. Vulpisfoglia's case as I see it's usual "jack of all trades" stuff typical for the subclass, except she's actually very good at everything she does, but still doesn't excel at anything. She can do damage but not exactly among best dps units, can print a lot of dp but less than many other vanguards. Someone can say that flags are not good by themselves but Suzumom can't block basic mobs on high diffs either, if something will touch her offskill she's gonna die very fast. She's not a carry in extreme content, just a valid opener. This can't stop me from pulling for her and having fun in any gamemode after, I like these types of units, she's cute and her drip is immaculate, and it's true she's in top5 vanguards, but she doesn't replace anyone except other pioneers. And yeah, agents and our "balans", "best vanguard", "why she does so much stuff" Ines in particular are kinda out of the discussion.
Honestly I see Suzu mom as an early lane holding dps who can really be left alone on one side with a good hitting range unit DP regeneration becomes a plus point and in cases like annihilation using her a lane holder and DP generator is more above Ines as she needs enemies to generate DP and her dps falls off from Suzumom
as a Pioneer enjoyer I hope Suzumom doesn't treat me like Penance did when I pulled for her in Texalter's banner. Suzumom come home, I have you daughter at e2 and she's waiting for you T-T
My mafiosi hitman can't be this cute Upd: yeah, I had all the same thoughts about comparing her with Ines, she's good but doesn't break anything, just like other pioneers. But just like other pioneers she's fun to use lol, that's enough for me, even though she clearly powercreeps her subclass that suffers this treatment for the 3rd time already. Also she's cute and there's my waifu Lapipi on the same banner, so there's no choice really. Btw futages from old story chapters with full meta stacked squad looking so cursed, wtf.
Imo her value comes with how she have her own more usefull bagpipe in form of lapter. She literally gain 9 dp (technically 10 dp since her dp gen talent will gove her extra 1 dp during skill activation) after just 3 sec with lapter. Myrtle can gain 14 dp in 3 sec aswell but u need bagpipe for that or u wait for 8 sec to get that dp. And i find bagpipe is really useless except for blocking early since myrtle doesnt do shit if u deploy her first, then bagpipe just sit in the squad the enrtire battle since her damage is just not that good compare with other helidrop option. So yeah totally an upgrade if still use flagpipe or u just dont like how u need an enemy to gain dp with agent
@@Eusthasia there's 3 flags beside Myrtle, and if dp is all you need then flagpipe has way more potential + there's probably no stage in the game where Bagpipu can't deal with early enemies and most elites. Many people really underestimating her damage. On top of that flagpipe combo already got powercrept, agents provide too much stuff without suffering any real drawbacks compared to flags. What is definitely good about Suzumom it's how friendly she's to use. No need for many buttons pressing, self-sufficient, just one squad slot, has self-sustain, good damage and dp print. Not excelling at anything but everything she does she does very well, you can bring her everywhere without sacrificing anything. It's kinda how pioneers are supposed to be, and they were until agents. Now this subclass is at least competitive again if you care that much about operator's performance and "meta".
> I bet we're all thinking about Ela : ( > Okay, I was joking : ) VF is the only operator in the next 6 months I'm excited to pull for and she looks damn solid. I hoped to see some comparisons to the other 6* Pioneers, since FT is my main VG and I'm wondering how they two compare to each other. FT also has a lot of survivability and hits multiple enemies, so I'm curious how much of an overlap there is in practice.
I'm aiming for pot 6 lappland so she's a definite pull for me regardless But honestly, I like everything about her from gameplay to design, I always loved pioneers thanks to texas and I found flagbearers and agents kinda boring. So she's basically all I've wanted in a vanguard for a while
Ah yes the pioneer vanguard problem, why deploy one of them when you could just do Ines or Myrtle then throw out some op ass guard that never needs to move?
lets be honest vulpisfoglia was made to be a actually balanced operator because she's on Lappland alter banner who's absolutely broken and they can't release two power creep ops on same banner. I wonder how strong she would of been if she was the power creep op instead
In all honesty? Suzumom sounds like someone wanted to make a decent DPS Pioneer who can stay on the field but then remembered that those need to generate _some_ DP to fit the archetype. Resulting in a higher DPS Poncirus with I wouldn't be surprised if it's lower DP generation over an entire stage. Which is an honest shame on all counts. I would have preferred it if they had committed to either DPS or laneholding with more DP generation. But like this, she's the DPS choice among Pioneers. Not even making up for the bonus 2 DP Texas brings passively. Which is accepted in niche clears. Even if her Y Module increases the DP portion of her Talent 2 to an unconditional 20%, the main draw will remain her DPS that can be dropped almost immediately into a stage then. This upgrade will just mean that you don't have to feel bad about retreating Suzumom when you need more utlity and/or DPS for her deployment slot. Maybe that's good enough to find a place in the meta. And I wouldn't be surprised if it is once the Y Module does drop. But I doubt that she will be a go-to pick outside of hard content or die-hard fans. Other Vanguards are just better at the whole DP thing and Texas is still free. I'll probably end up pulling for her during the Event. Cause I do want to reunite her with her daughter. She won't see any resources though since I am working on a niche that is getting three new units in a few days. Never mind the just revealed Thorns Alter. Plus I am only really missing one "ultra meta" unit in Eyja Alter for backup squads. Everyone else after that will have to compete with the denizens of the deep sea.
My point wasn't that utility is not important, but rather that for vanguards DP is more important. Ines has both utility _and_ first-rate DP generation. In my 30-sec DP showcase she's literally second, just closely behind Elysium. I would have contradicted myself if she had mediocre/low DP generation, but that is clearly not the case.
ummm but mumu.. If ines and myrtle can't handle it then mumu does. She can handle anything because of versatility. Unless you really don't have an operator in the other 11 that is useful..
Just tried with Mostima (Y mod) and it doesn't work actually, not even for enemies in her range :(. I fear it's a similar case to Ascalon, in that it's considered a generic movement speed reduction rather than an actual Slow. A pity, it would have been pretty cool otherwise...
Vanguard Pioneers are kinda losing their charm. Then again I am having a ton of fun with Poncirus, with her module increasing the health and her skill 2 giving some attack and a lot of defense, she becomes an absolute unit, 2 block defender with over 3k hp and 0.25dp/s permanently.
A lot of people say that Pioneers are used in IS more, I myself use Saga as my main vanguard, her talent gives her 2nd life and both her S2 (for burst damage) and S3(for SP support) are useful in their ways. VF probably are gonna be used similarly, S2 for crowd control support and S3 for burst damage but with extra DP generation booster and better survivability.
![[Arknights] Lappland the Decadenza Review](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vohTNINzkkc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Arknights] Lappland the Decadenza Review](/img/tr.png)
![[Arknights] Narantuya Review](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Up2apHN3lPk/mqdefault.jpg)
06/01/2025: Added English subtitles in closed captions.
Another super long and demanding video done. Now... I sleep. Thanks for watching!
edit: small correction, as pointed out in the comments, S2 actually gives more DP/sec than S3 (7/20 vs 9/28).
Also, I should have compared module vs non-module with her blocking to make the comparison more fair. Live and learn.
Not planning to make something similar with Crownlayer? For "meta" play she's dead on arrival and her niche with s3 in so narrow that 5star executors are better picks more often than anyone would expect when talking about 6stars, but I'm still interested in her, there's some good examples of her usage and I've never seen anyone with good game knowledge talk about her seriously.
@@rw6611 I plan on making a review of CS at some point, but Thorns Alter will be out soon, and that's going to take priority. I also want to catch up on Nymph and Pepe/Narantuya before they come to global. But CS is definitely on the list.
rest well comrade \[T]/
@@smallphi nice, ty for answer
I know what you mean but calling it feline eyes when she's a fox is pretty funny
Yeah, foxes are canine after all.
ahah my bad!
@@xenotyphon technically yes, but, foxes have a fair bit in common with cats as well -- some foxes have vertical pupils for example, so saying 'feline eyes' isnt that wrong either :D
@@theSato 🤓☝️
she seems like a mix of a Pioneer and a Charge vanguard which is wild since both cover each's weakness
Suzumom is basically just a dps version of Flametail. And as a huge Flametail enjoyer, I look forward to using both when Suzumom is out on global.
Sneaky Chilchuck showcase
To add to why Texas still seems to be around all these years later in hardcore content: it's all about her start of map support. Something not mentioned was her 2 DP talent. Subtract that from her max pot base cost and module reduction and you have a unit that effectively only costs 5 DP and can pop her skill almost instantaneously with Bagpipe in the squad. Compare this to Vulpisfoglia's peak start of map impact: 12 DP cost (more than double Texas'), no Y module rn but 0 CD helidrop on skill. This means that Texas drops down on the field 7 seconds earlier, pops skill after 2 seconds then can immediately retreat. This puts you 15 DP ahead of Vulpisfoglia at this point in time and you still need to wait another 5s before you would have DP to deploy VF (assuming you were waiting on DP in a high end scenario). In addition to that, one activation of VF's skill only generates 9 DP so to catch up to a skill that generates more DP in a single cast, she has to wait a whole other 28 seconds (18s + the 10s channel of the S3). This is a horrific lag time that would easily break a ton of high risk strategies. So effectively using Texas amounts to an objective 5 second headstart relative to VF and in the worst case scenario it could take her up to 28 seconds to catch up to the same level of DP production.
Ultimately just using a VG setup that burst generates more DP then using actual dedicated combat units to fight stuff is simply the superior strategy when it comes down to the wire. There is also the argument for casual content that I can just drop my 9 DP furry with a 5s charge time permanent skill that grants 80% ATK, 2 block, cleave and non-conditional HP regen. Mountain is literally more effective as a vanguard than pretty much every single real vanguard.
thats exactly why i will never pull any vanguard after i got flagpipe and ines, the vanguard class has basically been completed at this point
@@megugao Same could be said about healers.. its not really about being completed or not, you just have more characters which are more ways to tackle the same enemies we all face.
*Ines enters the chat*
20:35 clownslayer moment
20:33 I'm sorry but dropping Crownslayer just for her to get nuked off the stage is funny
A fate worse than death. Giving her over to RI just for the Doctor to bully her with every deployment.
bro really hit us with the "cute and funny" description for suzuran💀💀
Pretty funny and cute that suzuran basically been training this whole time to support her mom
why not, it's accurate in both senses
Finally the DP comparison
i rlly liked this video you did a great job on it dude! super informative
Absurd quality! Amazing video, usually I'm not interested in reviews or similar stuff but there's a lot of effort and comparations that are actually fair with in depth analysis, solid comparisons, how mechanics work etc, peak content!
the main thing I learned from this video....15:00 WAIT CHILCHUCK MANAGED TO BREAK HIS WAY INTO THE TOP DP GENERATING VANGUARDS????
He is fully stacked with aspd (if u rbing full dunmeshi its additional 25 aspd buff) and him not having atk buff mean he can hit more before enemies dead. Its really fitting the lore and wel designed in ak kit as well
@@Eusthasia yeah, not having ATK buffs actually ironically does kind of increase his DP generation. It does, sadly, completely remove his ability to fulfill the assassin side of an agent's role, but it's still an interesting twist on the archetype instead of just making all of them the same pseudo-fast redeploy DPS but slightly different (as Ines, Cantabile, and Puzzle all more or less just fulfill that exact same role, just Puzzle deals arts damage, Ines can bind and reveal invisible enemies, and Cantabile's manual deactivation allows for more control with her skill)
She has a special place on my squad.
My Vulpoknights squad.
Please come home Suzumom...
Here are my 2 cents:
Foxleaf is an incredibly dominant vanguard that imo is easily the #2 best vanguard right now behind Ines.
Pure DP is almost never needed, usually in extreme content like CC, but this is already too rare to value highly and that is assuming that CC isn't completely dead in the water.
I also argue that in IS and SSS flagbearers are more of a hindrance than a help thanks to them losing block count and not offering much other than DP. TBF in SSS, this is less of an issue nowadays since the mode was nerfed a lot.
Smallphi argues that the most valued aspect of a vanguard is pure dp first, utility next.
I actually disagree. I find the most important aspect of a vanguard to be what they offer up beyond their DP, with a good DP output being an important 2nd factor.
Like I mentioned earlier, in almost no content in the game do you actually need that much DP. DP generation is a QoL to put the squad fast, but in 99% of maps you can win without using any vanguards. If you can win all those maps without insane DP output from Elysium or Myrtle, then why would you waste a squad slot on someone that only gives you DP output?
When I use Ines, I enjoy the QoL that her DP gives me, but I mostly enjoy that she binds, does solid damage, decreases the movement speed and especially that she reveals stealthed enemies even after death which is an awesome niche.
Enter Foxleaf, she is a pioneer, which I argue is much better in IS and SSS than flagbearers from their trait alone, then provides really close DP number to Myrtle when we include her talent on a regular map... Yeah Myrtle is already dead in the water here, her DP advantage is nowhere high enough to replace a permanent 2 block with those stats of Foxleaf.
Then we add a health regen talent, so now Foxleaf doesn't need a medic in a huge amount of maps...
Yeah we now relieved some pressure which reduces the need of a medic or other healing source for a few seconds if not indefinitely, so once again the quick dp regen need is reduced a lot. Not to mention camo on s3
Now taking Foxleaf's actual kit, an acceptable slow/stun in a solid range with low uptime on s2. This is not a great skill IMO, but much better than anything Myrtle/Elysium provide IMO. At the same time it provides roughly 1,43 dp/s which almost reaches Myrtle number. See my returning argument here? Barely has less DP than Myrtle but does everything else 500% better.
The real winner is S3. Does 3,8k arts dps and 38k total damage, this is a huge amount of dps for a vanguard, and good enough to take into any stage as a sub-dps, if not straightup enough to be your main dps source. Then we add the stuns, huge utility here that can be very valuable in daily content and hard content alike. Once again being so much better than flagbearers.
Then we do add a pretty damn solid DP on s3, which is not far off from Myrtle, and we can see why the sheer utility and damage of Foxleaf just is so much more valuable than Myrtle's pure dp regen.
Of course Saileach s3 has decent utility, but it just doesn't quite cut it and actually has less DP/s which is the 2nd factor here than Ines/Foxleaf which have both better utility and better dp/s than Saileach S3.
Now your counter argument may be:
"Why Foxleaf for damage if Wisadel" well if you paid attention to my text, you don't need a vanguard in most situations exactly because we have shit like Wisadel, but that is more of a burner for Myrtle that only gives DP, than Foxleaf which gives DP, DPS and utility."
"why Foxleaf for utility if Ela/Shu/Suzuran" again, if you paid attention, the value of Foxleaf is not only having utility, but combining it with good damage and solid dp regen. Realistically the reason you want to use Foxleaf is the same reason that you use Ines, except Foxleaf trades some decent to small amount of utility and dp regen for significantly more stability (not relying on enemy presence) and way more dps.
"Why Foxleaf if Ines" well the reality is that you don't need either in most maps, so you probably won't use both in the same squad. Both provide utility and damage, ontop of decent dp/s. Ines overall is better so would be more suitable for most squads as a first vanguard pick. The benefit of Foxleaf is that she is tankier, does more damage and blocks 2 enemies. Another benefit is that Foxleaf does big arts dps, while Ines has decent physical dph at best, meaning that foxleaf will often do better against high defence enemies, especially if enemies come in waves. Key benefit of both Ines and Foxleaf in any squad, is that they will pull their weight even when you need no dp generation at all.
"Why Foxleaf if not waifu" no reason lad, ignore her existence if you enjoy the waifus way more. Carry on.
"Why do any of these arguments matter, if Foxleaf is waifu" not at all lad, go use her and carry on.
This is a huge slab of text now, ***TLDR***
Foxleaf and Ines provide more DP than you need in 99,99% of stages, while providing better utility and or damage than any flagbearer. This is why they are IMO the 2 most dominant vanguards in the game, blowing any flagbearer out of the water.
Bagpipe is really good for damage, but does not have any utility and the condition for generating DP can feel restrictive.
Damage and utility in a vanguard is most important, then good DP regen which Foxleaf/Ines have is an important 2nd factor.
There will be extreme scenario's where you want to use flagbearers, but in the majority of content Foxleaf and Ines will be vastly better.
Foxleaf is not the best dps, not the best dp, not the best utility, but she packages them all into one package to an above average extend, just a little less stacked than Ines in some areas with advantages in others, which puts her in a fantastic position for any squad. If you don't need DP, Foxleaf provides a lot of value still. If you need DP but Myrtle gets overwhelmed or the stage disadvantages Ines, Foxleaf is your solution.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful and informative comment! You’re absolutely right-my view that DP comes first and utility/dps second is probably more a reflection of my playstyle than something that holds for everyone. Fingers crossed we’ll see Suzumom shine when the next CC rolls around!
Counterpoint: being Pioneer VG
From my experience flagbearers are much better in IS than pioneers. Ely and especially Saileah provide a crapton of utility on most maps, while pioneers without any vanguard items are barely usable because they can't block anything (otherwise they die instantly).
Suzumom is exception with her extremely strong stun on low cooldown, she's actually decent pick there, but her being better than Saileah is still very questionable.
@@rw6611
Edit: Clarified myself a bit better, because what I say here may be confusing compared to what I wrote earlier, as none of you can read my mind.
From my experience all of the pioneers we have had are not that great either in IS specifically, but awesome in SSS to hold the enemy for a while when the rest of the squad doesn't want to be drawn into your hand. Compared to flagbearer that either give me dp and leak, or block one enemy and leak the next while not being able to kill the first enemy that they are still blocking.
I am saying this as a casual vanguardknight player, Vina has been dead in the water for ages. Saga lacks utility and Flametail has a strong niche but the damage isn't quite up there for me. These are issues in IS especially.
Suzumom bringing utility, survival and burst arts dps makes her so much better than the previous pioneers, both in hard content, buffable gamemodes like IS and daily content.
Foxleaf even does really good damage on the Sarkaz buddha boss, which is really fun and impressive to see.
For me Foxleaf is a good alternative to Ines and a straightup superior choice over Bagpipe, which was typically my "vanguard dps choice" if I had the freedom to take her with me. Foxleaf also feels more stacked than Muesli overall, though muesli is a lot more flexible with her summons and can actually do absurd damage with the right clones. so I wouldn't really rule out that Muesli may be a nicer choice in some instances.
I have not enjoyed flagbearers in IS since IS3. I tend to prioritise agents nowadays, especially Ines, Muesli maybe for a versatile vanguard pick if I really feel like it (or if she is free) and typically get a free fang and nothing else.
I only really take a flagbearer if they are free and I already have Ines or don't feel any rush to get Ines.
In IS5 it obviously makes more sense to take Myrtle over Fang every single time though, since Fang really is nothing great, it's just that she is free in all IS while Myrtle had a hope cost.
I really wouldn't say that Elysium and Saileach are invalid options, they are still good operators, since they do provide some decent utility and retain a respectable dp/s. But I tend to gravitate to the options I already discussed.
I want my vanguards to provide an overall package, I find that Elysium and Saileach fall short compared to Ines, Muesli, Foxleaf.
@@Khroniclas I mean, high rarity flags have "package" with block buff, giving defense, heal, aspd increase, stun, fragile, invis reveal, slow, dp regen. Vulpisfoglia's case as I see it's usual "jack of all trades" stuff typical for the subclass, except she's actually very good at everything she does, but still doesn't excel at anything. She can do damage but not exactly among best dps units, can print a lot of dp but less than many other vanguards. Someone can say that flags are not good by themselves but Suzumom can't block basic mobs on high diffs either, if something will touch her offskill she's gonna die very fast. She's not a carry in extreme content, just a valid opener.
This can't stop me from pulling for her and having fun in any gamemode after, I like these types of units, she's cute and her drip is immaculate, and it's true she's in top5 vanguards, but she doesn't replace anyone except other pioneers.
And yeah, agents and our "balans", "best vanguard", "why she does so much stuff" Ines in particular are kinda out of the discussion.
I have no idea who Suzuran is but her mother is cool
she's an agent+lord ranges in disguise
need her purely for her jp voicelines, asmr to my ears
Nice review, gotta love that Foxleaf.
Honestly I see Suzu mom as an early lane holding dps who can really be left alone on one side with a good hitting range unit DP regeneration becomes a plus point and in cases like annihilation using her a lane holder and DP generator is more above Ines as she needs enemies to generate DP and her dps falls off from Suzumom
The fact that she is only SLIGHTLY behind DP gen compared to FLAG vanguards its insane to me.
Your review convinced me to not pull for the new pioneer vanguard. I'LL PULL HARD FOR FOR SUZURAN'S MOTHER INSTEAD!!!
as a Pioneer enjoyer I hope Suzumom doesn't treat me like Penance did when I pulled for her in Texalter's banner. Suzumom come home, I have you daughter at e2 and she's waiting for you T-T
My mafiosi hitman can't be this cute
Upd: yeah, I had all the same thoughts about comparing her with Ines, she's good but doesn't break anything, just like other pioneers. But just like other pioneers she's fun to use lol, that's enough for me, even though she clearly powercreeps her subclass that suffers this treatment for the 3rd time already. Also she's cute and there's my waifu Lapipi on the same banner, so there's no choice really.
Btw futages from old story chapters with full meta stacked squad looking so cursed, wtf.
Imo her value comes with how she have her own more usefull bagpipe in form of lapter. She literally gain 9 dp (technically 10 dp since her dp gen talent will gove her extra 1 dp during skill activation) after just 3 sec with lapter. Myrtle can gain 14 dp in 3 sec aswell but u need bagpipe for that or u wait for 8 sec to get that dp. And i find bagpipe is really useless except for blocking early since myrtle doesnt do shit if u deploy her first, then bagpipe just sit in the squad the enrtire battle since her damage is just not that good compare with other helidrop option. So yeah totally an upgrade if still use flagpipe or u just dont like how u need an enemy to gain dp with agent
@@Eusthasia there's 3 flags beside Myrtle, and if dp is all you need then flagpipe has way more potential + there's probably no stage in the game where Bagpipu can't deal with early enemies and most elites. Many people really underestimating her damage. On top of that flagpipe combo already got powercrept, agents provide too much stuff without suffering any real drawbacks compared to flags.
What is definitely good about Suzumom it's how friendly she's to use. No need for many buttons pressing, self-sufficient, just one squad slot, has self-sustain, good damage and dp print. Not excelling at anything but everything she does she does very well, you can bring her everywhere without sacrificing anything. It's kinda how pioneers are supposed to be, and they were until agents. Now this subclass is at least competitive again if you care that much about operator's performance and "meta".
In other words, she's basically another Flametail, where only one their skill is relevant, and that skill gives massive ATKSpd to the operator.
> I bet we're all thinking about Ela
: (
> Okay, I was joking
: )
VF is the only operator in the next 6 months I'm excited to pull for and she looks damn solid.
I hoped to see some comparisons to the other 6* Pioneers, since FT is my main VG and I'm wondering how they two compare to each other. FT also has a lot of survivability and hits multiple enemies, so I'm curious how much of an overlap there is in practice.
I'm aiming for pot 6 lappland so she's a definite pull for me regardless
But honestly, I like everything about her from gameplay to design, I always loved pioneers thanks to texas and I found flagbearers and agents kinda boring. So she's basically all I've wanted in a vanguard for a while
The Nikke OST sounds so good. I'mma give it a try.
First 😁, thanks for the great work
21:00 the nian erasure TT
Ah yes the pioneer vanguard problem, why deploy one of them when you could just do Ines or Myrtle then throw out some op ass guard that never needs to move?
lets be honest vulpisfoglia was made to be a actually balanced operator because she's on Lappland alter banner who's absolutely broken and they can't release two power creep ops on same banner. I wonder how strong she would of been if she was the power creep op instead
Yeah they have never done that before… (wisadel and logos laughing in corner)
She can lane hold me 😳
Wait... I don't think it works that way
In all honesty? Suzumom sounds like someone wanted to make a decent DPS Pioneer who can stay on the field but then remembered that those need to generate _some_ DP to fit the archetype. Resulting in a higher DPS Poncirus with I wouldn't be surprised if it's lower DP generation over an entire stage. Which is an honest shame on all counts. I would have preferred it if they had committed to either DPS or laneholding with more DP generation. But like this, she's the DPS choice among Pioneers. Not even making up for the bonus 2 DP Texas brings passively. Which is accepted in niche clears. Even if her Y Module increases the DP portion of her Talent 2 to an unconditional 20%, the main draw will remain her DPS that can be dropped almost immediately into a stage then. This upgrade will just mean that you don't have to feel bad about retreating Suzumom when you need more utlity and/or DPS for her deployment slot.
Maybe that's good enough to find a place in the meta. And I wouldn't be surprised if it is once the Y Module does drop. But I doubt that she will be a go-to pick outside of hard content or die-hard fans. Other Vanguards are just better at the whole DP thing and Texas is still free.
I'll probably end up pulling for her during the Event. Cause I do want to reunite her with her daughter. She won't see any resources though since I am working on a niche that is getting three new units in a few days. Never mind the just revealed Thorns Alter. Plus I am only really missing one "ultra meta" unit in Eyja Alter for backup squads. Everyone else after that will have to compete with the denizens of the deep sea.
I like how everyone just calls her Suzumom cause no one can pronounce her name
5:29 RIP suzumom
yep, she did not survive that...
A bit of Misinfo. S2 gives more dp than S3 (7 per 20 vs 9 per 28).
Good catch, I was only considering the time to recharge the skill without factoring the skill duration. Thanks for the correction!!
18:33 Sorry, but you contradict yourself. Ines with 10 picks clearly shows that operator utility is an important factor.
My point wasn't that utility is not important, but rather that for vanguards DP is more important. Ines has both utility _and_ first-rate DP generation. In my 30-sec DP showcase she's literally second, just closely behind Elysium. I would have contradicted myself if she had mediocre/low DP generation, but that is clearly not the case.
Suzumom is 100% an IS operator.
i see her as Siege 2.0. A vanguard gives good DP and dps
Isn’t saga siege 2.0?
She's Siege 3.0
Flametail?
@@nabi7701 Siege 4.0
@@porokichin7878 i said "siege 2.0"
ummm but mumu.. If ines and myrtle can't handle it then mumu does. She can handle anything because of versatility. Unless you really don't have an operator in the other 11 that is useful..
I'm gonna say it. People overreact about Vigil's dp gain
Mostima's module doesn't work with vulpis s2, I'm so sad....
Just tried with Mostima (Y mod) and it doesn't work actually, not even for enemies in her range :(. I fear it's a similar case to Ascalon, in that it's considered a generic movement speed reduction rather than an actual Slow. A pity, it would have been pretty cool otherwise...
Mostimas slow is movement speed reduction, not actual debuff "slow"
Damn... HG, standardise your debuffs please....
hugging shuzumama at morning, sough rex by night with shuzuran.
How can I get her? Is she available now?
She's going to be in Lappland Alter's banner, which should happen around May
Vanguard Pioneers are kinda losing their charm.
Then again I am having a ton of fun with Poncirus, with her module increasing the health and her skill 2 giving some attack and a lot of defense, she becomes an absolute unit, 2 block defender with over 3k hp and 0.25dp/s permanently.
A lot of people say that Pioneers are used in IS more, I myself use Saga as my main vanguard, her talent gives her 2nd life and both her S2 (for burst damage) and S3(for SP support) are useful in their ways.
VF probably are gonna be used similarly, S2 for crowd control support and S3 for burst damage but with extra DP generation booster and better survivability.