As a full-time music tech journalist, my job is to figure out how good a plugin is or not. In this case, there are some problems in my opinion. And yes, I criticize products. If I don't do this, I can re-brand my channel in a shop channel where only good reviews are allowed. Sorry I can not. Criticism also helps developers to shape a product in the right direction. That the way how it works on the SYNTH ANATOMY channel! If you don't love my voice or my lovely English accent, please don't watch the video! It's just a waste of time for you ;) What do you think about Massive X? What is missing or is it perfect? Please let me know! :)
Massive X is half finished product, this is no more acceptable. See the UI of Arturia Pigments for example... Massive X sounds great but UI is not good, and bad user experience will lead to bad sounds... Well, to conclude, interesting product but I'll consider buying it when it will be finished.... I'm paid when my job is done, I ask the same for things I buy...
@@basscut Yes that's true, even if I prefer when Ableton is working on audio processing more than on internal synths that can't compete the best ones that we all already have.
I think it's a great synth. I find it very inspiring, yet super flexible. Yeah some of the things you said, I agree with - the Envelope view one being so obvious that it barely needs to be said that it will have to be fixed. And having as you suggest a separate more traditional colour-coded view of the modulation routings is a good idea. I'm glad that NI have announced that they will release updates. But yeah, marketing depts., you have to take all that with a grain of salt - marketeers are on their own trajectory... I'm happy that I have something like Reaktor/Blocks, with polyphony and decent CPU usage, in a more streamlined package. That routing window is very slick. A sub-osc would be nice... But, most importantly, it sounds great to me..
For starters the lack of an undo function and visual feedback in the envelopes are totally unacceptable. Is there a way to temporarily bypass individual modulation routings?
Thanks for the followup video with the excellent criticism, it’s a nice contrast to the many sycophants posting videos, tweets, and comments about this new Massive. Personally, I lost patience with the lousy interface so quick, especially because there are many great alternatives. The original Massive was the first synth I bought from NI, and this new Massive is probably the last synth I’ll ever buy from them.
It's the best digital sound engine I've ever heard since now. The aliasing topic is a missunderstanding of the oscillators: Take a pure Sinus-Wave and activate the PM1, then slowly fade in the PM. You will see on the oscilloscope, that the same overtones will increase, that were extenuated in the pure Sinus-Wave. So it is not aliasing, but the wavestructure. You can say, that the Sinus-Wave ist not pure in it's structure, but this is no matter of sounding. The sounding of the Sinus-Wave is in my opinion delicious! The Interface of Massive X is promising, but obviously not finished. But that does not matter for me, because I know, it will be finished. And in the meantime I will program sounds...“where no man has gone before“!
I just investigated: Take the pure sinus-wave and make a feedback circle to itself. Then turn on full feedback. You should hear now the aliasing, if it would exist. But the only thing you can hear and see is the amplified soundstructure of the pure sinus-wave. No artefacts. Sorry... This example sounds massive, but pure, no artefacts... Greetings
If it is aliasing, it's not in audible range, though amplified with full feedback. But the clicking...is unacceptable! I want my money back! ;-)) No, I'm waiting hopefully for the update. Meanwhile I'll try some other possibillities of Massive X. It's too good, to put it aside...
check my first video, I like the modular routing system and more. This video shows only where issues or problems are in my opinion! I don't fork out, these are observations and my normal workflow when I do reviews of Synths.for TH-cam and the website. Especially in this case where a company make big teasing over many months, it's a bit disappointing to see the result "so far". Updates with new features and improvements are coming as NI already said to the press people. Cheers
I think its a really awesome synth, but I definitely think it needs more work. Several things need improvement. For one, another wavetable oscillator would have been nice. Your totally right about the lack of visual feedback for sure. It would also be nice if we could get unison per oscillator in addition to the global unison. I love all the modulation, but I don't really care for the LFOs, im not sure why though.
I used Massive X since 1 week every day in the beta version, so I got a good overview of what is missing or not. If you know the concurrence (Serum, Pigments, VPS Avenger etc.) you know how big and good this is
@@synthanatomy I have no doubt you're qualified to form a critical opinion on the synth. But until its been in hands of producers for an extended period (and used more myself) i'll reserve judgement. And I don't think pigments, serum etc are better synths because of more wavetable flexibility - for me, the wavetables are what made Massive great in the first place. Unrivalled in my opinion for harmonics. I do however get the feeling this synth is trying to do too much and UI wise you had some valid points. For instance, I don't understand why everything is on 1 page. Too cramped. Anyway - thanks for your thoughts!
Perhaps they wanted to make their promised deadline and left some things out. I hope they step up later and add the things that you mentioned. I was very surprised that the lack of a stand alone app. It sounds wonderful regardless.
I always feel that the original Massive synth is unfinished and now I have to agree with you that this one is also unfinished. It has some great features but so far I'm finding Arturia's Pigments is more fun/useful to use. NI should have done more development before they announced and then delayed it by what was it 8 or 9 months or close to. Talk about an anticlimax. Let's hope they do make improvements to it quickly and don't just lose interest in its further development like they do with so many of their products. Given it was the main reason I updated my Komplete Ultimate this year during their sale I'm actually a bit disappointed.
All your complaints seem valid. Better to have delayed release than to have sent it to market unfinished. NI is not a small, cash-strapped company. That they are already talking about updates to come effectively concedes the point. First impressions are always important with new instruments. One would hope companies would release fully realized software, especially in a crowded market, but it happens that way much too rarely - and too often products fail before their refinements ever see implementation. In this regard we need not worry about Massive X. NI have the money to keep it alive, and it is well worth doing so - there is plenty to like here. That said, it is clearly in need of work - which need no have been so.
You have to believe that the release was rushed & it's going to be updated soon enough. The static photo of an envelope cannot By any means be permanent. And the lack of animation puts it 6 years behind all its competitors. I'd bet on these improvements coming this year. On another note I actually really love the color coding system they use I don't think anyone does that better
Underwhelmed! Just upgraded this morning and booted. I mostly use presets, so sorely disappointed at small library, early days evidentaly. UI is funky but where is the extensive Browser of the original Massive? How do you save to favorites? First impression is irritating user experience just on those few points. Sonically it obviously has great potential and the professional sound designers will no doubt mine it for it's full worth.
I much prefer the new GUI. The old Massive is a bit too disturbing for me when I'm building a new sound from scratch. Totally agree this release looks unfinished.
This video made me laugh😂😂😂, after all the big teasing and hype from NI to then come here and hear the disappointing tone in your voice was just priceless😂😂😂....I know have a weird sense of humour.
Feels like reaktor. Blocks. I mean, this is the same thing right? Built in the same framework? Same design? I do like all the wavetable types etc. As everyone has said, the modulation needs some serious work. It is unreal they are charging so much for a synth that doesn’t even meet basic 2019 standards when it comes to visualising modulation. Yet there are 200 pages on the KVR forum and everyone has turned into a fanboy. Let me say, it sounds cool - like reaktor blocks. But to charge so much for something that is basically a collection of their previous stuff is quite odd. The envelopes are flat out embarrassing. It’s quite annoying cos I like the sound of it and would quite like to buy it, but it just feels weird paying that for a synth that will be so much more of a nightmare to work with than Dune, Hive and all the rest.
All the haters a yr from now will be saying how great the synth is. Everyone knows soon visual feedback. Soon wavetable import and much much more. So my god relax learn the synth and grow along with it.
Do not talk, let the sofware program/synth talk, this is useless. Why: there are many vst's available, we choose one because of the initial effect the sound has on us, then, after we like it, we go in deeper. Why would we contribute to the development of synth when we still do not know if it is worth our time. Let NI do their work. Stop abusing the youtube audience.
I make this because I investigate how good or bad a Synthesizer plugin is. That's my main job as a full-time journalist. If I don't do it, well than I can also launch a sale show where everything is great. Nope, it isn't Many TH-camrs try to ignore negativity about products in their videos, I don't have fear of developers. Massive X is a great plugin but many features are missing or must be improved (visual feedback etc.). That the way how to get feedback to the developers and to improve their products. Cheers
"Native Instruments Komplete 12 upgrades/updates which include Massive X for free are now on SALE! " ..uhh.. sorry but this has got nothing to do with journalism. To explain what i mean; the program is just released, i am cheking youtubes for its sounds, now i click on your link and its something i am not interested in. I just hope this is not the way these types of youtubes is going. I am not a (not payed) Massive X product developer yet because i dont know yet the sound of it. To put it very short: i dont like this type of sales/marketing. Cheerz, have a nice weekend!
@@rmolagMolag well I work like 10 hours on my website, TH-cam channel and more. Please give me an advice on how to finance the work I do? (pay my bills, my room where I sleep, food...) That's better than getting paid for making videos. If you want to be open in your opinion without being biased that the only way. Even big companies like MusicTech, Sonicstate, etc. do the same thing on their website. If you want sounds, you can download for free a demo version with all the sounds. Plus you can play it with your keyboard ;) I'm here to investigate, want to say my opinion about it... Nobody forces you to click on it but it's just help me and other TH-camrs to continue their jobs. I have a key feature video also online which shows also sounds. Maybe you want also to work for free ;)
Ok, i appreciate you are honest. Why not put a 3 minute sample of sounds from this vst, then we can hear what is does then its ok. Then come up with your questions. For me, as for many potential buyers of this vst (i guess) i first read about X on a forum, clicked the link to NI Mass X and offcourse saw there is a demo. But demo's take time. Go to the studio, open computer, download , install, open Cubase etc etc. So i first go youtube to hear the sounds and then decide if its worth to take the effort. And on youtube i want to hear sounds. Ok? Now step up your game i would say, write a short midi-file and let the various presets ride on that midi-file, or play the keyboard. Show that you are a musician for musicians. Sounds my friend, its about sounds. And i am not a economist, so.. no advice for you how to pay your bills from me and i am not advising you to take any youtube on that subject serious. cheers, buena suerte amigo. chau.
@@rmolag Check my first video about it on TH-cam there are tons of sounds it. This video was made for my opinion, not as sound demo ;) TH-cam is called TH-cam because you can make the content you like on your own tube. I like to make this opinion video. That's my job sorry! ;)
In the year of our lord two-thousand and nineteen, if your VST's ADSR graphic doesn't reflect the actual ADSR settings then your VST is unfinished.
I think it will definitely get better. But they need to really focus on that GUI. No visualization of modulation is a big bummer.
As a full-time music tech journalist, my job is to figure out how good a plugin is or not. In this case, there are some problems in my opinion. And yes, I criticize products. If I don't do this, I can re-brand my channel in a shop channel where only good reviews are allowed. Sorry I can not. Criticism also helps developers to shape a product in the right direction. That the way how it works on the SYNTH ANATOMY channel! If you don't love my voice or my lovely English accent, please don't watch the video! It's just a waste of time for you ;)
What do you think about Massive X? What is missing or is it perfect? Please let me know! :)
Massive X is half finished product, this is no more acceptable. See the UI of Arturia Pigments for example... Massive X sounds great but UI is not good, and bad user experience will lead to bad sounds... Well, to conclude, interesting product but I'll consider buying it when it will be finished.... I'm paid when my job is done, I ask the same for things I buy...
I agree with you, Massive X sounds great but it's an unfished product, hope they will improve in the next updates ;)
@@synthanatomy Hope is the key, but not of my wallet :-)
Yes Pigment but also Ableton’s Wavetable do it the right way with the animation and visual feedback.
@@basscut Yes that's true, even if I prefer when Ableton is working on audio processing more than on internal synths that can't compete the best ones that we all already have.
The size is easily explained, just have a look at the Wavetable folder, its 750 MB of super high quality wavetables. The Noise tables alone are 57 MB.
thanks Mick :)
I think it's a great synth. I find it very inspiring, yet super flexible. Yeah some of the things you said, I agree with - the Envelope view one being so obvious that it barely needs to be said that it will have to be fixed. And having as you suggest a separate more traditional colour-coded view of the modulation routings is a good idea. I'm glad that NI have announced that they will release updates. But yeah, marketing depts., you have to take all that with a grain of salt - marketeers are on their own trajectory... I'm happy that I have something like Reaktor/Blocks, with polyphony and decent CPU usage, in a more streamlined package. That routing window is very slick. A sub-osc would be nice... But, most importantly, it sounds great to me..
I can't even get the VST to show up.
For starters the lack of an undo function and visual feedback in the envelopes are totally unacceptable. Is there a way to temporarily bypass individual modulation routings?
completely forget, the missing undo redo, absolutely :) bypass I think not
Thanks for the followup video with the excellent criticism, it’s a nice contrast to the many sycophants posting videos, tweets, and comments about this new Massive. Personally, I lost patience with the lousy interface so quick, especially because there are many great alternatives. The original Massive was the first synth I bought from NI, and this new Massive is probably the last synth I’ll ever buy from them.
Robert Spectral Use Reaktor Blocks instead
Some crazy design choices on this synth! Needs some serious updates and quick!
It's the best digital sound engine I've ever heard since now.
The aliasing topic is a missunderstanding of the oscillators:
Take a pure Sinus-Wave and activate the PM1, then slowly fade in the PM.
You will see on the oscilloscope, that the same overtones will increase, that were extenuated in the pure Sinus-Wave.
So it is not aliasing, but the wavestructure.
You can say, that the Sinus-Wave ist not pure in it's structure, but this is no matter of sounding. The sounding of the Sinus-Wave is in my opinion delicious!
The Interface of Massive X is promising, but obviously not finished.
But that does not matter for me, because I know, it will be finished. And in the meantime I will program sounds...“where no man has gone before“!
I just investigated:
Take the pure sinus-wave and make a feedback circle to itself. Then turn on full feedback.
You should hear now the aliasing, if it would exist. But the only thing you can hear and see is the amplified soundstructure of the pure sinus-wave. No artefacts. Sorry...
This example sounds massive, but pure, no artefacts...
Greetings
Damn ....
But there are some clicking issues with the wave-table parameters when they are modulated...
Aux and Phase modulated to some extend result in clicks...
That' really annoying...
If it is aliasing, it's not in audible range, though amplified with full feedback.
But the clicking...is unacceptable!
I want my money back! ;-))
No, I'm waiting hopefully for the update.
Meanwhile I'll try some other possibillities of Massive X. It's too good, to put it aside...
Kai Franke Yes the sound is unmatched by any other synth with equal dsp footprint.
Tom, thanks for your honest opinion as I have never yet played with Massive X.
Appreciate your work as always.
Regards
2:14 why would they do this?? Its called Massive X but looks like reaktor. And no scream filter! Wuuuuut
Shane No if it looked like Reaktor it would have animation. Check out Super 8!
Is there anything you do like ? Could it be that your still using the BETA copy, rather than fork out and buy it your self.
check my first video, I like the modular routing system and more. This video shows only where issues or problems are in my opinion! I don't fork out, these are observations and my normal workflow when I do reviews of Synths.for TH-cam and the website. Especially in this case where a company make big teasing over many months, it's a bit disappointing to see the result "so far". Updates with new features and improvements are coming as NI already said to the press people. Cheers
My understanding from watching other reviewers is that the latest BETA is the same as the released version.
Check out the aliasing on the sinewave oscillators. Its really bad
I think its a really awesome synth, but I definitely think it needs more work. Several things need improvement. For one, another wavetable oscillator would have been nice. Your totally right about the lack of visual feedback for sure. It would also be nice if we could get unison per oscillator in addition to the global unison. I love all the modulation, but I don't really care for the LFOs, im not sure why though.
How can you be so decisive when it's been out for a day? No one knows the true power of a synth until it's been in the wild for a period.
I used Massive X since 1 week every day in the beta version, so I got a good overview of what is missing or not. If you know the concurrence (Serum, Pigments, VPS Avenger etc.) you know how big and good this is
@@synthanatomy I have no doubt you're qualified to form a critical opinion on the synth. But until its been in hands of producers for an extended period (and used more myself) i'll reserve judgement. And I don't think pigments, serum etc are better synths because of more wavetable flexibility - for me, the wavetables are what made Massive great in the first place. Unrivalled in my opinion for harmonics. I do however get the feeling this synth is trying to do too much and UI wise you had some valid points. For instance, I don't understand why everything is on 1 page. Too cramped.
Anyway - thanks for your thoughts!
Okay, well as far as the installation size is concerned, I'm sure they're using high quality audio files for the wavetables, which I fully support ...
Perhaps they wanted to make their promised deadline and left some things out. I hope they step up later and add the things that you mentioned. I was very surprised that the lack of a stand alone app. It sounds wonderful regardless.
I always feel that the original Massive synth is unfinished and now I have to agree with you that this one is also unfinished. It has some great features but so far I'm finding Arturia's Pigments is more fun/useful to use. NI should have done more development before they announced and then delayed it by what was it 8 or 9 months or close to. Talk about an anticlimax. Let's hope they do make improvements to it quickly and don't just lose interest in its further development like they do with so many of their products. Given it was the main reason I updated my Komplete Ultimate this year during their sale I'm actually a bit disappointed.
4 years later…no new features, lol. Pretty telling about what the future holds for the Kontrol MK3.
All your complaints seem valid. Better to have delayed release than to have sent it to market unfinished. NI is not a small, cash-strapped company. That they are already talking about updates to come effectively concedes the point. First impressions are always important with new instruments. One would hope companies would release fully realized software, especially in a crowded market, but it happens that way much too rarely - and too often products fail before their refinements ever see implementation. In this regard we need not worry about Massive X. NI have the money to keep it alive, and it is well worth doing so - there is plenty to like here. That said, it is clearly in need of work - which need no have been so.
You have to believe that the release was rushed & it's going to be updated soon enough. The static photo of an envelope cannot By any means be permanent. And the lack of animation puts it 6 years behind all its competitors. I'd bet on these improvements coming this year.
On another note I actually really love the color coding system they use I don't think anyone does that better
I agree 100%
Underwhelmed!
Just upgraded this morning and booted.
I mostly use presets, so sorely disappointed at small library, early days evidentaly.
UI is funky but where is the extensive Browser of the original Massive?
How do you save to favorites?
First impression is irritating user experience just on those few points.
Sonically it obviously has great potential and the professional sound designers will no doubt mine it for it's full worth.
To me this seems like a classic case of the developer team being pushed towards too early deadlines by the marketing department....
I much prefer the new GUI. The old Massive is a bit too disturbing for me when I'm building a new sound from scratch. Totally agree this release looks unfinished.
This video made me laugh😂😂😂, after all the big teasing and hype from NI to then come here and hear the disappointing tone in your voice was just priceless😂😂😂....I know have a weird sense of humour.
btw my voice is always like this ;)
Feels like reaktor. Blocks. I mean, this is the same thing right? Built in the same framework? Same design?
I do like all the wavetable types etc.
As everyone has said, the modulation needs some serious work. It is unreal they are charging so much for a synth that doesn’t even meet basic 2019 standards when it comes to visualising modulation.
Yet there are 200 pages on the KVR forum and everyone has turned into a fanboy. Let me say, it sounds cool - like reaktor blocks. But to charge so much for something that is basically a collection of their previous stuff is quite odd.
The envelopes are flat out embarrassing. It’s quite annoying cos I like the sound of it and would quite like to buy it, but it just feels weird paying that for a synth that will be so much more of a nightmare to work with than Dune, Hive and all the rest.
David Carlyon Damn right ‘envelopes are out right embarrassing’ wtf NI!!
All the haters a yr from now will be saying how great the synth is. Everyone knows soon visual feedback. Soon wavetable import and much much more. So my god relax learn the synth and grow along with it.
Nothing is perfect
Do not talk, let the sofware program/synth talk, this is useless. Why: there are many vst's available, we choose one because of the initial effect the sound has on us, then, after we like it, we go in deeper. Why would we contribute to the development of synth when we still do not know if it is worth our time. Let NI do their work. Stop abusing the youtube audience.
I make this because I investigate how good or bad a Synthesizer plugin is. That's my main job as a full-time journalist. If I don't do it, well than I can also launch a sale show where everything is great. Nope, it isn't Many TH-camrs try to ignore negativity about products in their videos, I don't have fear of developers. Massive X is a great plugin but many features are missing or must be improved (visual feedback etc.). That the way how to get feedback to the developers and to improve their products. Cheers
"Native Instruments Komplete 12 upgrades/updates which include Massive X for free are now on SALE! " ..uhh.. sorry but this has got nothing to do with journalism. To explain what i mean; the program is just released, i am cheking youtubes for its sounds, now i click on your link and its something i am not interested in. I just hope this is not the way these types of youtubes is going. I am not a (not payed) Massive X product developer yet because i dont know yet the sound of it. To put it very short: i dont like this type of sales/marketing. Cheerz, have a nice weekend!
@@rmolagMolag well I work like 10 hours on my website, TH-cam channel and more. Please give me an advice on how to finance the work I do? (pay my bills, my room where I sleep, food...) That's better than getting paid for making videos. If you want to be open in your opinion without being biased that the only way. Even big companies like MusicTech, Sonicstate, etc. do the same thing on their website. If you want sounds, you can download for free a demo version with all the sounds. Plus you can play it with your keyboard ;) I'm here to investigate, want to say my opinion about it... Nobody forces you to click on it but it's just help me and other TH-camrs to continue their jobs. I have a key feature video also online which shows also sounds. Maybe you want also to work for free ;)
Ok, i appreciate you are honest. Why not put a 3 minute sample of sounds from this vst, then we can hear what is does then its ok. Then come up with your questions. For me, as for many potential buyers of this vst (i guess) i first read about X on a forum, clicked the link to NI Mass X and offcourse saw there is a demo. But demo's take time. Go to the studio, open computer, download , install, open Cubase etc etc. So i first go youtube to hear the sounds and then decide if its worth to take the effort. And on youtube i want to hear sounds. Ok?
Now step up your game i would say, write a short midi-file and let the various presets ride on that midi-file, or play the keyboard. Show that you are a musician for musicians. Sounds my friend, its about sounds. And i am not a economist, so.. no advice for you how to pay your bills from me and i am not advising you to take any youtube on that subject serious.
cheers, buena suerte amigo. chau.
@@rmolag Check my first video about it on TH-cam there are tons of sounds it. This video was made for my opinion, not as sound demo ;) TH-cam is called TH-cam because you can make the content you like on your own tube. I like to make this opinion video. That's my job sorry! ;)
Your room is echo.