That styling had a touch of USA stream lining going on at the front. I'm not sure that the interior mirror was as intended, but all mods were sensible and mostly sympathetic. A lovely car from a very different era.
Talking of not liking hills. As a child the vicar of Moreleigh in Devon ,had an old car with a gravity fuel pump! When he came to a hill he had to turn the car round and reverse up the hill! (Early 1960's)
The secret of getting a smooth gearchange with the preselector is in timing the change so the engine revs are right. Changing up you need to let the revs drop a bit while you hold the change pedal down, and changing down you need to keep a few revs on when you push the change-speed pedal to avoid a sudden nose-dive. Once you get in the rhythm of having the next gear preselected they're a delight to drive.
My brother used to drive the old RT buses with pre-select gearboxes, and if you think back they were smooth; todays buses (automatic) are much more jerky than they were; but then the drivers back then would have put todays bus drivers to shame.
I spent dome time drivinga 20 tonne Foden with an Eaton twin splitter pre select. Made a hash of gear changes at first because i wasn't told that it was a pre select. Had i known thati'd have been okas i had experience with the Feret scout car whilst in the army
As a London Transport bus mechanic aged 21, ( I'm now 68) I was instructed to report to Chiswick works for bus driver instruction. (1976) As an engineer, I had to follow the same instructional procedure as the platform staff. The RT regent bus with its Wilson pre-select gearbox was a joy to drive. This clever piece of engineering, never gave the inside staff much trouble at all. You could adjust the individual speed bands if one of the gears were slipping, while making sure that the air supply to the gearbox was set correctly. Like many public service vehicles, they certainly had a tough life in all sorts of weather. Hopefully one day I'll get to drive an RT bus again before I get too old. Thanks very much for showing this Lanchester, a very nice little motor. Kind regards to all on here.👍
I think the Lanchester brand could still work. Badge engineer one of Tata's small cars with luxury Jaguar style trim and away you go. But then I've often thought that BMW's larger Minis should be re-branded as Wolseley. I'm unlikely to get a job working in marketing.
Lovel little car there Ian. My dad worked for Tannoy in the '30s and I remember him telling me they tested two way radio in Lord Somebody's big Lanchester.
In the early 1970's I did an 18 month stint driving buses for Glasgow Corporation Transport. Mostly Leyland Titans, and Atlanteans. There were still a number of pre-selector gearbox Daimler CVG6's in the fleet ( dating from the late 50's ). My depot had 4 or 5. I loved them, these Daimlers always drove well, and they had a feel of engineering quality about them. As for the Wilson pre-selectors..., if you ever treated that 'clutch' pedal as a clutch, ie easing it in or out, the pedal would kick back fierecely. After it had whacked your ankle once or twice, you rapidly learnt that the best way was a firm press and release. Just like the instructor had told you in the first place !
My uncle Frank drove buses, with the gear boxes you mention, in the 1950s, for Glasgow Corporation Transport. He also drove the trolleybuses, around the same time, which he hated.
This transmission is the direct predecessor of modern conventional automatics. GM bought a mid-range Daimler c1931 and used the transmission, adding a "brain" to produce the Hydramatic, first sold in the 1939 Oldsmobile for an extra $50.
Beautiful car, I remember being astonished at Coventry Transport Museum when it dawned on me that ALL the cars there were built in and around Coventry. Presector gearboxes were quite common on buses.
I seem to recall the buses of my youth being preselector. Move a tiny selector through the metal gates and ptsch (not ptscho mind) it changed gear pneumatically. I always sat behind the driver if I could. I had taught myself to drive by 10 just from watching others. Used to get my Mother’s mini out of the garage for the morning school run. Precocious little sh1t I fear. 😂
Lovely old car, good to see one again. My father was a proper motor engineer, ex REME, and I remember sometime in the 1950s him having a pre-selector box out of a Lanchester in a thousand bits on the bench and scratching his head. He got it up and running though but I learned a few new words helping him that week.
How absolutely delightful. One can imagine picnics by the river on a summer's day, taking Jemima to her horse riding lessons and other such delights. Beautiful colours too, totally my vision of what a classic car means.
I remember as a child my late dad talking about pre-selector boxes when we were on an old Daimler bus from as it was Coventry Transport back around the early 1970's, they used to have an H block switch selector on the left of the steering wheel left of the huge speedo if I recall correctly. It's only taken me over 50 years to fully understand how it was used so many thanks Ian for the enlightenment. I had my theories but have until today seen the use case in operation in my adult life. Many thanks for sharing. I've no idea how I remember these thigs from so long ago but I guess I'm on some scale somewhere.
What a pretty little car. Not covered in chrome, or odd little design touches. It's simple in the execution, the white wheels and top are a nice offset to the deep green paint. And the wood dash looks great. Love the design of the gauges, very 40's. Thanks for showing this one off.
I grew up driving pre-selector gearboxes on my Dad's Daimlers. So easy to drive and so smooth, always loved the Wilson Pre-selector gearboxes. It's definitely not a clutch and must never be driven as such. Its a gear change pedal. Press down, let off the throttle and let pedal all the way up again without slipping it at all. Slipping the pedal will prematurely wear the bands in the gearbox. Power losses in a Fluid Flywheel are much lower than a torque converter so you get better fuel economy but without the hassle of manual boxes (which were often crash boxes back in those days) Fred Lanchester was an engineering genius, much underappreciated. He invented many things we take for granted now, such as an early form of disc brakes and counter-rotating harmonic balancing shafts to make engines smoother.
Well that was wipertastic, made me laugh. Lanchester still has associations with Coventry through the university. Cov Uni, of course, used to be Lanchester Polytechnic, remember those? The library at the university is named for Lanchester, Ellie was parked right by it when you visited the Moto Fest in 2019 pre Covid. Happy days. If you haven't seen that video you must, massive Citroen jamboree.
An auspicious part of the country to drive a Lanchester. Coventry University started life as Coventry Lanchester Polytechnic, and before that Lanchester Technical College. Which often got confused with Lancaster and Manchester, if the lads in my 6th form were anything to go by.
That looked like a really happy place to be. What an amazingly beautiful little car. I did wonder what the horn was like though; I am imagining a quite satisfying 'parp' sound?
The whirring sound is actually the planet wheels in the gearbox; some manufacturers like Lagonda, Riley and Talbot used a centrifugal clutch instead of the fluid flywheel, and they whirred just like that.
Our neighbour had a Daimler Majestic with a preselector gear box. I got to drive it at age 17 back in 1970, very Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud in demeanor. I preferred the Majestic to my the RR Silver Cloud I with the 6 cylinder and 3 speed automatic. The same family had a Daimler SP250 which grandma drove... She was a hoon. I did not get to drive it as she was quite protective of it..
My dad had a 1939 BMW 315 'Special' with a Preselector gearbox, he used to race it in vintage Car racing! Never got to drive it myself as he had to sell it before I was old enough, now I know how it works.
Great to see a review of the preselector gearbox! My fathers 1933 Talbot 105 has one (based on the Wilson patents like other manufacturers of the time). I think it might differ from the type in the Lanchester as it uses a traditional flywheel and clutch so wouldn't suffer from the drivetrain loss of the fluid clutch and behaves much like a 'normal' gearbox. I drove it all the way to Le Mans and back a few years ago and it was an absolute joy! Very advanced for its time i think
My dad had a 1930s one of these in the 50s. Its only disadvantage was the fluid flywheel: fully laden on a steep hill, it would gently come to a stop; then it could be pushed along with one hand!
My father who passed away in 2020 passed his driving test in my grandad's 1937 Lanchester back in 1949. He told me that he once reversed into a low brick wall which was completely demolished but the car emerged completely unscathed thanks to its sprung steel bumper. Apparently because of the pre-selector gearbox, the car could creep forward very slowly without any input from the driver so my grandad had a habit of leaving it in gear and for a joke, hop out and with the car pootling along a walking pace, walk along side it with my grandmother still sat in the back much to her annoyance.
Green and cream positively screams 1940s. I remember when it was a popular choice for exterior painting of houses. I also believe you can now get flashing LED bulbs for semaphores/traffictors.
Pre-selects are great fun once you get used to them. Fitted to the Ferret armoured car and some Foden trucks. I quite agree that oil pressure gauges are a wise addition. I was always taught that by the time the oild light comes on the pressure has already dropped to such a level that it's unlikely that the engine is undamaged. I'm surprised that they don't fit them to all cars.
Great little car and very interesting video. I have driven an ex-London RT bus which has the AEC air operated Wilson preselector gearbox so you get a hiss when operating the pedal. London drivers rarely used first gear except for hill starts so second gear was used mostly from rest. Davidjones332 describes exactly the technique that drivers used when operating the pedal to produce a smooth change. Drivers would then immediately select the next likely gear on the column, ready to operate the pedal. As the bus came to a bus stop, second gear would be selected and engaged just before coming to rest avoiding the slight jerk forward by changing at rest. Third gear would immediately be selected on the column ready to change up. The whirring in neutral is the planet gear train revolving since both halves of the fluid flywheel are rotating together driving all but the last planet set which is stationary since it is connected to the rear wheels with the handbrake applied. I would love to own a car like this or even an RT bus (£30,000 +). If you can get a drive on an RT, do so, they are great fun to drive, better than a Routemaster!!!
Great video Ian, that is one of 2 in existence, abbot built 2 from what I believe one for him and one for his wife , my father rebuilt the other which is now in maroon and black . Last I saw it was forsale at a classic car showroom. Keep up the good work.
I owned an LD10 Barker many yuears ago . IT was in beautiful condition with only 11000miles when I bought it. Good smooth runner but underpoered somewjat and the mechanical brakes needed lots of foot pressure. I didn't use it as my everyday car but in the better weather time of year it got a decent run out at least once a week. Preselector box was very smooth and what is normally where the clutch pedal is actually engages the pre selected gears..
There is a Grey 52 Land Chester "Leda" sitting out in the middle of what's known here as ty"West Valley" in Arizona, complete with matching Grey Steel Wheels and Right Hand Drive..... obviously a private import at some point. Last Inspected in March of 1971. It's covered with Vintage Cokeacola and RC Cola stickers along with a load of "Hippie" Flower--Power Stickers 🤪😜. No sign of it's original UK Plates, although there's a pair of Maryland plates from 1966 inside under the rear seats. The Inspection Sticker is an Arizona one. It DOES make you wonder just where the Hell this car has been. Richard Hammond would probably fall in love with it (His Grandfather DID work for Lanchester...) and repatriate the thing....🤪🚗💨 !
My Dad used to impersonate the noises made by the Lanchester that lived opposite his family home in Croydon in the 1940's. It's only thanks to the internet that I've been able to hear one. The starters could make interesting noises too.
Lovely little car, pre-select gearboxes were far suited to larger heavier vehicles like buses, London RT's and RF's used a pre-select box which was very well liked by all the drivers. latter RM's like Pete and his bus, went over to a semi-auto but retained the fluid flywheel, it just didn't feel the same (i just about remember driving RT's, he drove RM's alot more before being inspector, and yes he got given a very famous nick name, ill let you try and work it Ian,
That would have been the Hydracylic or Pneumocyclic gearbox. Same idea as the preselector but hydraulics or air doing the job of the gearchange pedal so you could just move the lever and leave the box to do the rest. They used to do a fully automatic version too.
A fluid flywheel, or a hydrokinetic coupling, is a device where the output torque is always equal to the input torque. Because it can slip, yet still deliver torque, it allows the engine to provide more torque to the transmission under some circumstances than a mechanical clutch. However, as the coupling is always slipping, there is always a power loss. But I think fluid couplings slip less than a torque converter. The three element torque converter employs a device called a stator, which modifies the flow of fluid to multiply the torque through the device. In cars the stator is mounted on a freewheeling mechanism, which prevents runaway behaviour and means that at higher speeds means the torque converter behaves more like a two element coupling. There are industrial torque converters that don't have this. The advantage of the torque converter was that you could get away with fewer gears, which made transmissions easier to engineer. That's why General Motors and Mercedes-Benz took the apparently retrograde step of switching from four to three speed automatics. Any decent automatic transmission also employs a lock-up clutch to connect the input and output sides of the torque converter, for greater efficiency.
Contrary to what Ian says I believe the whirring noise from the preselect gearbox in neutral actually is the planetary gear set whizzing away idling. Mid 1930s (Wilson) preselector-equipped Rileys have a centrifugal clutch rather than fluid flywheel but make exactly the same whirring noise in neutral.
what suprised me more was that armstrong-siddley did cars. That was like finding out about Messerschmit's KRs. Their history for some reason makes me think of Packard.
Beautiful Ian. Most people would choose something like the 4wd XJS to video but I am glad you chose this. I think in the day the pre-selector would have been far superior to a crash gearbox. Lanchesters must have made it to Australia as there are two sedans locally to me. Pretty rare though.
My dad had a Daimler Conquest Century with the Wilson pre-select gearbox and the fluid flywheel - start off in 2nd and once in top it was virtually never required to downchange
Didn't know they did a coupe. We have an LD10 barker saloon in cream and 2 Daimler Conquest Century 2 saloons in black and silver-grey, with the same gearboxes made by Wilson, who became Self Changing Gears (Coventry) Ltd of bus fame.
Great review of a superb motor car. A real high quality cabriolet. Curiously I wonder which Wilson gear box was used. I have a Special Sports which shares parts with the DB18 gearbox that were the staple Daimler gearboxes. But that gearbox is huge and heavy and fitted to a 2.5 litre engine. The fluid flywheel is interesting but I much prefer the setup in my Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire mark 2 which has a clutch and electrical shifting. The fluid flywheel has a serious disadvantage. When you stop you must preselect neutral and press the pedal to disengage. Otherwise next time you start the car your starting it in gear. And so it can start and drive through your garage wall! Less of an issue then but today 99% of possible drivers don't know how to drive such a gearbox. But they are swift and an absolute delight to use. Beautiful car.
‘Apparently that’s where we’re going’. Proper motoring, that is. Sun’s out, lovely little car, nice surroundings… ‘Honey, gonna be late for dinner. The car has other ideas’ :)
Trafficators, I have them on my Ford Popular. They're fitted with flashing LEDs and I don't have any problems being seen using them. I think with such an archaic looking car people are taking notice anyway and then see this little flashing arm pop out. That Lanchester is a fine car but it's a shame so many dropheads look a bit of a mess with the hood down.
I remember my dad saying he drove a vehicle with a pre selector gearbox in the RAF. I think it might have been an aircraft tractor, the idea being they could be towed smoothly without undue stress or damage to the airframe. (He actually learned to drive on a fuel bowser which must have been interesting!)
I remember my brother in law owned a Mercedes 220 sedan back in the sixties here in Australia and it had a four speed on the column transmission but no clutch pedal and it was called a “Hydrac” if my memory as a young bloke is correct and it worked as I remember that when you touched the gear stick it operated an electric clutch negating the need for a peddle and I was fascinated by it, also Porsche had one in their early 911’s and that was called a “sportamatic” no doubt ideas that dropped out of favour with progress like the pre selector 👍
Thank you for sharing your driving impressions of this charming LD10. Lanchester engineering was wonderful, especially in the early "cab forward" models that sported balanced dual crankshaft/flywheel engines with overhead valves and pressurized lubrication, epicyclic gearboxes, and mechanically actuated front disc brakes! (If I recall correctly, those early Lanchesters were designed to last for the life of the owner.) Even the more conventional later models (imposing cars intended to compete with Rolls-Royce) had unique features like side valves actuated by leaf springs (!) and worm drive rear axles. I would love to have one, even one of the later Daimler-based models (especially a Leda or Dauphin).
My first encounter with a pre select box was in 1970 with my 1938 Riley 12/4 LWB saloon. Riley had to use a centrifugal clutch (no in gear creep, engaged at 550 RPM) as Daimler held the Patent on the Fluid Flywheel and would only license its use by car manufacturers that used Daimler engines, Riley using their own twin cam pushrod OHV crossflow one both in 12/4 and 15/6 cylinder form. Daimler did license it to truck and bus manufacturers. Drove one for many years on LT with the RT and RF buses. The one big problem is they can't be flat or front lift towed unless a half shaft withdrawn or the engine is running.
Like many other viewers, I'm sure, I will be beating a path to the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust! What a brilliant museum and what a great collection of working vehicles. Thank you, top video.
We knew them as a Wilson box We worked on the and made parts. From the inventor Wilson. perhaps you could investigate the French Cotal electric gearbox and the Hayes constantly variable transmission. Long before anything today.
M.G. used ENV pre-selector gearboxes back in the early-1930s, most famously on the K-type Magnette (the supercharged K3), but also on the F-Type Magna.
What a charming little car. I would love to give one a home, I think it would be superb for bumbling around in the country but I don't think the little thing would be too happy with modern city driving or tackling some of the hills around your neck of the woods.
I think London Transport Buses used to have a pre-select gearbox in the 60s, I remember watching the driver he selected first while waiting for passengers to board and as soon as we were moving he selected another gear and after a few seconds the bus would lurch slightly and the engine note would change and so on, there was quite a time between him moving the little lever and the thing changing gear. That had me guessing for quite a while but being an inquisitive 16 year old I had to ask and the conductor ( remember them ) told me, he said they took a bit of getting used to but were great to use, Good grief that was a blast from the past, Thanks.
That styling had a touch of USA stream lining going on at the front. I'm not sure that the interior mirror was as intended, but all mods were sensible and mostly sympathetic. A lovely car from a very different era.
I could see Miss Marple driving one. What a charming little car indeed.
Talking of not liking hills.
As a child the vicar of Moreleigh in Devon ,had an old car with a gravity fuel pump! When he came to a hill he had to turn the car round and reverse up the hill! (Early 1960's)
That little mascot thing on the radiator cowl looks VICIOUS.
What an absolutely spiffing little motor car. Tip Top!
Lovely old car Ian. Very enjoyable video.
The secret of getting a smooth gearchange with the preselector is in timing the change so the engine revs are right. Changing up you need to let the revs drop a bit while you hold the change pedal down, and changing down you need to keep a few revs on when you push the change-speed pedal to avoid a sudden nose-dive. Once you get in the rhythm of having the next gear preselected they're a delight to drive.
I love preselect boxes
My brother used to drive the old RT buses with pre-select gearboxes, and if you think back they were smooth; todays buses (automatic) are much more jerky than they were; but then the drivers back then would have put todays bus drivers to shame.
@@johnbower7452 quite so, they were taught to drive not just aim the vehicle
I spent dome time drivinga 20 tonne Foden with an Eaton twin splitter pre select. Made a hash of gear changes at first because i wasn't told that it was a pre select. Had i known thati'd have been okas i had experience with the Feret scout car whilst in the army
My old dad, who would have been 97 if he was still around, used to often talk fondly of Lanchesters and Armstrong Siddleys.
As a London Transport bus mechanic aged 21, ( I'm now 68) I was instructed to report to Chiswick works for bus driver instruction. (1976)
As an engineer, I had to follow the same instructional procedure as the platform staff. The RT regent bus with its Wilson pre-select gearbox was a joy to drive.
This clever piece of engineering, never gave the inside staff much trouble at all. You could adjust the individual speed bands if one of the gears were slipping, while making sure that the air supply to the gearbox was set correctly.
Like many public service vehicles, they certainly had a tough life in all sorts of weather. Hopefully one day I'll get to drive an RT bus again before I get too old.
Thanks very much for showing this Lanchester, a very nice little motor.
Kind regards to all on here.👍
I think the Lanchester brand could still work. Badge engineer one of Tata's small cars with luxury Jaguar style trim and away you go. But then I've often thought that BMW's larger Minis should be re-branded as Wolseley. I'm unlikely to get a job working in marketing.
Such a gorgeous shade of green, love it.
A delightful car and a delightful video. Very enjoyable. I love the piano music at the end too. A joy.
Lovel little car there Ian. My dad worked for Tannoy in the '30s and I remember him telling me they tested two way radio in Lord Somebody's big Lanchester.
In the early 1970's I did an 18 month stint driving buses for Glasgow Corporation Transport. Mostly Leyland Titans, and Atlanteans. There were still a number of pre-selector gearbox Daimler CVG6's in the fleet ( dating from the late 50's ). My depot had 4 or 5. I loved them, these Daimlers always drove well, and they had a feel of engineering quality about them. As for the Wilson pre-selectors..., if you ever treated that 'clutch' pedal as a clutch, ie easing it in or out, the pedal would kick back fierecely. After it had whacked your ankle once or twice, you rapidly learnt that the best way was a firm press and release. Just like the instructor had told you in the first place !
My uncle Frank drove buses, with the gear boxes you mention, in the 1950s, for Glasgow Corporation Transport. He also drove the trolleybuses, around the same time, which he hated.
What a little ripper mate. Aussie Graham.
The Airfix scale model kit company made a nice little model of a 1907 Lanchester Landaulette in the 1950s and 1960s.
A car that wouldn't be out of place in one of the Miss Marple episodes set in the 1950s, I think.
What a lovely old beastie. Looks like a real "gentleman's (or lady's) automotive carriage. I love these late 40s/early 50s machines.
This transmission is the direct predecessor of modern conventional automatics. GM bought a mid-range Daimler c1931 and used the transmission, adding a "brain" to produce the Hydramatic, first sold in the 1939 Oldsmobile for an extra $50.
Beautiful car, I remember being astonished at Coventry Transport Museum when it dawned on me that ALL the cars there were built in and around Coventry. Presector gearboxes were quite common on buses.
I seem to recall the buses of my youth being preselector. Move a tiny selector through the metal gates and ptsch (not ptscho mind) it changed gear pneumatically. I always sat behind the driver if I could. I had taught myself to drive by 10 just from watching others. Used to get my Mother’s mini out of the garage for the morning school run. Precocious little sh1t I fear. 😂
Lovely old car, good to see one again.
My father was a proper motor engineer, ex REME, and I remember sometime in the 1950s him having a pre-selector box out of a Lanchester in a thousand bits on the bench and scratching his head. He got it up and running though but I learned a few new words helping him that week.
What a fascinating gearbox! I can't belive how quiet the engine is on tick over
What a beautiful car. Thanks Ian for showing us such classics and their peculiarities.
A marvellous car! Well handled by Mr Hubnut!! Well done!!
Thanks for the video. Always wondered about the Pre-Selector gearbox.
What a lovely little old car, Ian! I also loved how when you weren't talking and all you could hear was the engine, the subtitles said "Music"! Magic!
How absolutely delightful. One can imagine picnics by the river on a summer's day, taking Jemima to her horse riding lessons and other such delights.
Beautiful colours too, totally my vision of what a classic car means.
I remember as a child my late dad talking about pre-selector boxes when we were on an old Daimler bus from as it was Coventry Transport back around the early 1970's, they used to have an H block switch selector on the left of the steering wheel left of the huge speedo if I recall correctly. It's only taken me over 50 years to fully understand how it was used so many thanks Ian for the enlightenment. I had my theories but have until today seen the use case in operation in my adult life. Many thanks for sharing. I've no idea how I remember these thigs from so long ago but I guess I'm on some scale somewhere.
What a pretty little car. Not covered in chrome, or odd little design touches. It's simple in the execution, the white wheels and top are a nice offset to the deep green paint. And the wood dash looks great. Love the design of the gauges, very 40's. Thanks for showing this one off.
I grew up driving pre-selector gearboxes on my Dad's Daimlers. So easy to drive and so smooth, always loved the Wilson Pre-selector gearboxes. It's definitely not a clutch and must never be driven as such. Its a gear change pedal. Press down, let off the throttle and let pedal all the way up again without slipping it at all. Slipping the pedal will prematurely wear the bands in the gearbox. Power losses in a Fluid Flywheel are much lower than a torque converter so you get better fuel economy but without the hassle of manual boxes (which were often crash boxes back in those days)
Fred Lanchester was an engineering genius, much underappreciated. He invented many things we take for granted now, such as an early form of disc brakes and counter-rotating harmonic balancing shafts to make engines smoother.
Well that was wipertastic, made me laugh. Lanchester still has associations with Coventry through the university. Cov Uni, of course, used to be Lanchester Polytechnic, remember those? The library at the university is named for Lanchester, Ellie was parked right by it when you visited the Moto Fest in 2019 pre Covid. Happy days. If you haven't seen that video you must, massive Citroen jamboree.
The engine sounds very new for the time. Smooth for a small 4.
An auspicious part of the country to drive a Lanchester. Coventry University started life as Coventry Lanchester Polytechnic, and before that Lanchester Technical College. Which often got confused with Lancaster and Manchester, if the lads in my 6th form were anything to go by.
Such a neat and classy little car. Wish I had roads around that would be good for bimbling along.
Super little car surprised it such small capacity, the interior is wonderful
That looked like a really happy place to be. What an amazingly beautiful little car. I did wonder what the horn was like though; I am imagining a quite satisfying 'parp' sound?
I don't think I checked it. Fail!
What a lovely little car and what a great day to be out and about in it 😊
The whirring sound is actually the planet wheels in the gearbox; some manufacturers like Lagonda, Riley and Talbot used a centrifugal clutch instead of the fluid flywheel, and they whirred just like that.
I thought all gears would've been helical by then.
Our neighbour had a Daimler Majestic with a preselector gear box.
I got to drive it at age 17 back in 1970, very Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud in demeanor.
I preferred the Majestic to my the RR Silver Cloud I with the 6 cylinder and 3 speed automatic.
The same family had a Daimler SP250 which grandma drove... She was a hoon.
I did not get to drive it as she was quite protective of it..
My dad was a London bus driver (29’s from Cockfosters) when I was a little toddler and the busses were preselector boxes.
My dad had a 1939 BMW 315 'Special' with a Preselector gearbox, he used to race it in vintage Car racing! Never got to drive it myself as he had to sell it before I was old enough, now I know how it works.
Beautiful car, hopefully see a few lanchesters at Lichfield car show this weekend
Windshield wiper test went Hubnut 😂
Best Hubnut wiper test ever 😂 👍🏾
Great to see a review of the preselector gearbox! My fathers 1933 Talbot 105 has one (based on the Wilson patents like other manufacturers of the time). I think it might differ from the type in the Lanchester as it uses a traditional flywheel and clutch so wouldn't suffer from the drivetrain loss of the fluid clutch and behaves much like a 'normal' gearbox. I drove it all the way to Le Mans and back a few years ago and it was an absolute joy! Very advanced for its time i think
Nice old car and love the trafficeators. Also I remember that Top Gear Episode, and I seem to remember that Hammond hated it.
My dad had a 1930s one of these in the 50s. Its only disadvantage was the fluid flywheel: fully laden on a steep hill, it would gently come to a stop; then it could be pushed along with one hand!
My father who passed away in 2020 passed his driving test in my grandad's 1937 Lanchester back in 1949. He told me that he once reversed into a low brick wall which was completely demolished but the car emerged completely unscathed thanks to its sprung steel bumper. Apparently because of the pre-selector gearbox, the car could creep forward very slowly without any input from the driver so my grandad had a habit of leaving it in gear and for a joke, hop out and with the car pootling along a walking pace, walk along side it with my grandmother still sat in the back much to her annoyance.
What a lovely little car.
What a fascinating little nugget of a car!
Nice car to go for a drive and a picnic in the countryside 😀
Green and cream positively screams 1940s. I remember when it was a popular choice for exterior painting of houses. I also believe you can now get flashing LED bulbs for semaphores/traffictors.
Yes you can and believe it or not they're called Flashicators!
My grandfather drove Daimler Conquests with preselector boxes. They were always very smooth drives.
Pre-selects are great fun once you get used to them. Fitted to the Ferret armoured car and some Foden trucks. I quite agree that oil pressure gauges are a wise addition. I was always taught that by the time the oild light comes on the pressure has already dropped to such a level that it's unlikely that the engine is undamaged. I'm surprised that they don't fit them to all cars.
A lovely looking car. I think I can see where Ford got the design for the MK1 Cortina rear lights.
Great little car and very interesting video. I have driven an ex-London RT bus which has the AEC air operated Wilson preselector gearbox so you get a hiss when operating the pedal. London drivers rarely used first gear except for hill starts so second gear was used mostly from rest. Davidjones332 describes exactly the technique that drivers used when operating the pedal to produce a smooth change. Drivers would then immediately select the next likely gear on the column, ready to operate the pedal. As the bus came to a bus stop, second gear would be selected and engaged just before coming to rest avoiding the slight jerk forward by changing at rest. Third gear would immediately be selected on the column ready to change up. The whirring in neutral is the planet gear train revolving since both halves of the fluid flywheel are rotating together driving all but the last planet set which is stationary since it is connected to the rear wheels with the handbrake applied.
I would love to own a car like this or even an RT bus (£30,000 +). If you can get a drive on an RT, do so, they are great fun to drive, better than a Routemaster!!!
Lovely proportions. My dad always used to sing the praises of the Riley he drove with a preselector gearbox.
Great video Ian, that is one of 2 in existence, abbot built 2 from what I believe one for him and one for his wife , my father rebuilt the other which is now in maroon and black .
Last I saw it was forsale at a classic car showroom.
Keep up the good work.
I owned an LD10 Barker many yuears ago . IT was in beautiful condition with only 11000miles when I bought it. Good smooth runner but underpoered somewjat and the mechanical brakes needed lots of foot pressure. I didn't use it as my everyday car but in the better weather time of year it got a decent run out at least once a week. Preselector box was very smooth and what is normally where the clutch pedal is actually engages the pre selected gears..
There is a Grey 52 Land Chester "Leda" sitting out in the middle of what's known here as ty"West Valley" in Arizona, complete with matching Grey Steel Wheels and Right Hand Drive..... obviously a private import at some point. Last Inspected in March of 1971. It's covered with Vintage Cokeacola and RC Cola stickers along with a load of "Hippie" Flower--Power Stickers 🤪😜. No sign of it's original UK Plates, although there's a pair of Maryland plates from 1966 inside under the rear seats. The Inspection Sticker is an Arizona one. It DOES make you wonder just where the Hell this car has been. Richard Hammond would probably fall in love with it (His Grandfather DID work for Lanchester...) and repatriate the thing....🤪🚗💨 !
What a charming little car with bags of character! I could get used to the pre-selector box no time. Love it!
My Dad used to impersonate the noises made by the Lanchester that lived opposite his family home in Croydon in the 1940's. It's only thanks to the internet that I've been able to hear one. The starters could make interesting noises too.
Wonderful as ever. The first preselecter gearbox I ever drove was also a Lanchester. The second was a Daimler Dingo!
Cute! The wiper and trafficator theatre is quite amusing... ♥🇬🇧♥
Lovely little car, pre-select gearboxes were far suited to larger heavier vehicles like buses, London RT's and RF's used a pre-select box which was very well liked by all the drivers. latter RM's like Pete and his bus, went over to a semi-auto but retained the fluid flywheel, it just didn't feel the same (i just about remember driving RT's, he drove RM's alot more before being inspector, and yes he got given a very famous nick name, ill let you try and work it Ian,
That would have been the Hydracylic or Pneumocyclic gearbox. Same idea as the preselector but hydraulics or air doing the job of the gearchange pedal so you could just move the lever and leave the box to do the rest. They used to do a fully automatic version too.
Wonderful.
Pre selector being the ancestor of automatics, more specifically the VW DSG type system (automated manual).
Thank you so much for taking us for a drive in this delightful little car.
A fluid flywheel, or a hydrokinetic coupling, is a device where the output torque is always equal to the input torque. Because it can slip, yet still deliver torque, it allows the engine to provide more torque to the transmission under some circumstances than a mechanical clutch. However, as the coupling is always slipping, there is always a power loss. But I think fluid couplings slip less than a torque converter.
The three element torque converter employs a device called a stator, which modifies the flow of fluid to multiply the torque through the device. In cars the stator is mounted on a freewheeling mechanism, which prevents runaway behaviour and means that at higher speeds means the torque converter behaves more like a two element coupling. There are industrial torque converters that don't have this. The advantage of the torque converter was that you could get away with fewer gears, which made transmissions easier to engineer. That's why General Motors and Mercedes-Benz took the apparently retrograde step of switching from four to three speed automatics. Any decent automatic transmission also employs a lock-up clutch to connect the input and output sides of the torque converter, for greater efficiency.
My 1965 Canadian Pontiac had a two gear Powerglide, gearbox with a torque convertor, from memory, that had different lockup speeds.
Contrary to what Ian says I believe the whirring noise from the preselect gearbox in neutral actually is the planetary gear set whizzing away idling. Mid 1930s (Wilson) preselector-equipped Rileys have a centrifugal clutch rather than fluid flywheel but make exactly the same whirring noise in neutral.
what suprised me more was that armstrong-siddley did cars. That was like finding out about Messerschmit's KRs. Their history for some reason makes me think of Packard.
Those rear wings have more than a hint of Morris Minor about them. But pre-dates the Minor . . .
Beautiful little car!
Beautiful Ian. Most people would choose something like the 4wd XJS to video but I am glad you chose this. I think in the day the pre-selector would have been far superior to a crash gearbox. Lanchesters must have made it to Australia as there are two sedans locally to me. Pretty rare though.
Lanchester United
My dad had a Daimler Conquest Century with the Wilson pre-select gearbox and the fluid flywheel - start off in 2nd and once in top it was virtually never required to downchange
Didn't know they did a coupe. We have an LD10 barker saloon in cream and 2 Daimler Conquest Century 2 saloons in black and silver-grey, with the same gearboxes made by Wilson, who became Self Changing Gears (Coventry) Ltd of bus fame.
I believe only two dropheads were built. Both survive.
What a lovely surprise this video was! Thank you for the preselector lesson and the reminder that lanchesters exist!
Beautiful car ( it has been restored i am guessing ) the wipers can be forgiven, it is old!
Great review of a superb motor car. A real high quality cabriolet. Curiously I wonder which Wilson gear box was used. I have a Special Sports which shares parts with the DB18 gearbox that were the staple Daimler gearboxes. But that gearbox is huge and heavy and fitted to a 2.5 litre engine. The fluid flywheel is interesting but I much prefer the setup in my Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire mark 2 which has a clutch and electrical shifting. The fluid flywheel has a serious disadvantage. When you stop you must preselect neutral and press the pedal to disengage. Otherwise next time you start the car your starting it in gear. And so it can start and drive through your garage wall! Less of an issue then but today 99% of possible drivers don't know how to drive such a gearbox. But they are swift and an absolute delight to use. Beautiful car.
‘Apparently that’s where we’re going’. Proper motoring, that is. Sun’s out, lovely little car, nice surroundings… ‘Honey, gonna be late for dinner. The car has other ideas’ :)
So many special cars have been made. Glad we can enjoy the ride.
Trafficators, I have them on my Ford Popular. They're fitted with flashing LEDs and I don't have any problems being seen using them. I think with such an archaic looking car people are taking notice anyway and then see this little flashing arm pop out. That Lanchester is a fine car but it's a shame so many dropheads look a bit of a mess with the hood down.
I went school on a bus with a preselector gearbox - fascinating and actually good gearboxes (maybe a forerunner to a modern dual-clutch unit?)
What a most enjoyable video really really good great content for this channel 👍👍👍
I like that car a lot more than I think I should...
I remember my dad saying he drove a vehicle with a pre selector gearbox in the RAF. I think it might have been an aircraft tractor, the idea being they could be towed smoothly without undue stress or damage to the airframe. (He actually learned to drive on a fuel bowser which must have been interesting!)
David Brown built preselector aircraft tugs for the RAF
@@davidjones332 Thank you, that would be what he was talking about then.
Beautiful car. I want one!
What a lovely car
I remember my brother in law owned a Mercedes 220 sedan back in the sixties here in Australia and it had a four speed on the column transmission but no clutch pedal and it was called a “Hydrac” if my memory as a young bloke is correct and it worked as I remember that when you touched the gear stick it operated an electric clutch negating the need for a peddle and I was fascinated by it, also Porsche had one in their early 911’s and that was called a “sportamatic” no doubt ideas that dropped out of favour with progress like the pre selector 👍
Great stuff, seems ages ago but I was there only 3 weeks ago tomorrow. Just before the HubNut Social 😊
Thank you for sharing your driving impressions of this charming LD10. Lanchester engineering was wonderful, especially in the early "cab forward" models that sported balanced dual crankshaft/flywheel engines with overhead valves and pressurized lubrication, epicyclic gearboxes, and mechanically actuated front disc brakes! (If I recall correctly, those early Lanchesters were designed to last for the life of the owner.) Even the more conventional later models (imposing cars intended to compete with Rolls-Royce) had unique features like side valves actuated by leaf springs (!) and worm drive rear axles. I would love to have one, even one of the later Daimler-based models (especially a Leda or Dauphin).
What a beautiful car, I think I could get use to the preselector gearbox.
Lovely car,good informative video well presented
Fun fact: the Dutch for preselector is ‘preselectie’, and if that doesn’t tell you why we love the Dutch, nothing will.
My first encounter with a pre select box was in 1970 with my 1938 Riley 12/4 LWB saloon. Riley had to use a centrifugal clutch (no in gear creep, engaged at 550 RPM) as Daimler held the Patent on the Fluid Flywheel and would only license its use by car manufacturers that used Daimler engines, Riley using their own twin cam pushrod OHV crossflow one both in 12/4 and 15/6 cylinder form. Daimler did license it to truck and bus manufacturers. Drove one for many years on LT with the RT and RF buses. The one big problem is they can't be flat or front lift towed unless a half shaft withdrawn or the engine is running.
Like many other viewers, I'm sure, I will be beating a path to the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust! What a brilliant museum and what a great collection of working vehicles. Thank you, top video.
We knew them as a Wilson box We worked on the and made parts. From the inventor Wilson. perhaps you could investigate the French Cotal electric gearbox and the Hayes constantly variable transmission. Long before anything today.
M.G. used ENV pre-selector gearboxes back in the early-1930s, most famously on the K-type Magnette (the supercharged K3), but also on the F-Type Magna.
What a charming little car. I would love to give one a home, I think it would be superb for bumbling around in the country but I don't think the little thing would be too happy with modern city driving or tackling some of the hills around your neck of the woods.
Pretty car. I remember one of my dads car having trafficators in thr sixties
I think London Transport Buses used to have a pre-select gearbox in the 60s,
I remember watching the driver he selected first while waiting for passengers
to board and as soon as we were moving he selected another gear and after
a few seconds the bus would lurch slightly and the engine note would change
and so on, there was quite a time between him moving the little lever and the
thing changing gear. That had me guessing for quite a while but being an
inquisitive 16 year old I had to ask and the conductor ( remember them )
told me, he said they took a bit of getting used to but were great to use,
Good grief that was a blast from the past, Thanks.
Yes, the RT buses were pre-select I think.