Genesis 5: 900 Year Old Man?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2019
- Thanks to scholars Ben Stanhope and Chris Hansen for reviewing this video.
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Sources:
Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat - Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia
Jöran Friberg - Numbers and Measures in the Earliest Written Records
J. Klein - The ‘Bane’ of Humanity: A Lifespan of One Hundred and Twenty Years
Kenneth Kitchen - On the Reliability of the Old Testament
Meir Bar-Ilan - When Being Numerate Used to Mean Something Else
Nahum M. Sarna - Understanding Genesis
Duane L. Christensen - The Mysterious Numbers of the Ages of the Patriarchs
Craig Olson - How Old Was Father Abraham?
Kenneth A. Matthew - The New American Commentary: Genesis 1:1 - Genesis 11:26
R.R. Wilson - Genealogy and History in the Biblical World
W. E. Aufrecht in "Ascribe to the Lord"
Kenton Spark in "Genesis: History, Fiction, or Neither?"
Lloyd R. Bailey - Biblical Math as Heilsgeschichte?
Carol Hill - Making Sense of the Numbers of Genesis
Richard Hess - The Genealogies of Genesis 1-11 and Comparative Literature
Mark Chavalas and K. Lawson Younger - Mesopotamia and the Bible
Ben-Zion Wacholder - How Long did Abram Stay in Egypt? A Study in Hellenistic, Quran, and Rabbinic Chronology
Jeremy Hughes - Secrets of the Time
I think the Bible is the most amazing document ever written. It has several layers to it. If you are simple minded and willing to accept certain passages at face value(literally) and it does not negatively affect your walk with God, you can. However, if you are the type of person who picks things apart, there are plenty of apparent problems and contradictions to point to in order to justify your desire to dismiss the Bible. However, the mistake many make at this level of reading is they find the problems and stop at that point. There is another deeper layer available if one is willing to dig in deeper still. When one does this the answers and explanations are found and create an even more beautiful picture that solidifies your faith even more. I find it interesting that all of these passages that create these layers are concerning stories or areas that are not vital to the core Gospel message. I believe God allowed the Bible to form exactly this way in order to properly prove out the heart of each individual when it comes to whether or not they have a true desire to seek after God or if they will instead allow small things to stand between themselves and God. It is almost like having 2 investigators who investigate a murder. One who is truly impartial and wants to get to the truth and will not stop digging into the evidence until a clear picture forms, and another who wants a certain person to be guilty and as soon as they find evidence that points to the person they want to find guilty, they stop their investigation and make their conclusion.
Agreed
It inspired me to become an atheist, which is still the best decision of my life.
If you're able to overlook the issues that make the book sound ridiculous and if you're not willing to be quite damn silly and ignorant to so many facts and allow this to get in the way of God...even tho God has nothing to do with all this BS you'll be ok...lmao!!! It wouldn't cause one change one way or another to read that comic book😂 That bible and all the so-called secrets...the only secret is COMMON SENSE.
@@rent1plussouth562 It's not overlooking...it is continuing to dig deeper. When you do you find out the things that seemed so silly and contradictory actually have a very good explanation, but to find this underlying truth you have to care enough to research and go beyond the surface level.
@@BeachBumZero lmao!!! Oh yeah!? Can I get a loan on my structured settlement?
Ever since I became a christian I've been struggling with this subject, thank you man for bringing so much clarity to our comunity, you are such a blessing, I have so much hope in you
Jaime. Look up Emanuel Swedenborg. A 17 century philosopher. He explains this well.
@@cliffa2901 I will, thanks a lot bro
Think again. Read dancel Isbitski's comment rig ther eunder this same video.
Hi Jaime, I'm curious how did you became a Christian?
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It is very simple to be saved and takes only a minute to explain. Please let me show you how to get to Heaven from the Bible, God's Word...
Man is a Sinner in the Eyes of a Holy God.
Isaiah 53:6, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”Romans 3:19, “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”John 3:3, “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
There is a Price For Our Sin―Burning in Hell Forever.
Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”2nd Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”Revelation 20:15, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”Revelation 21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
Jesus paid that price by dying on the cross and shedding His blood; Christ was buried and bodily rose again the third day!
Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”1st Timothy 1:15, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”1st Peter 1:18-19, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ...”1st Corinthians 15:1-4, “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” This is the Gospel.
By faith in Jesus Christ ALONE we are immediately saved.Galatians 3:26, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”John 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.”John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”John 6:40, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”Mark 1:15, “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”Acts 26:18, “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”1st Corinthians 3:11, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”Galatians 3:26, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
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No joke, I am about to have an oral presentation about History of Religions and Middle Eastern studies and I needed some topic for the Torath. This video can help me a lot. Thanks man.
Maximus Atlas How did it go?
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6 NKJV
This video is factually wrong in its assumptions
Noor I rather study by myself and find out where it goes. I mean no disrespect but I don't that all positions are truth until I study.
@@Noor-fx2bb which ones?
This is a great channel. If nothing else, you 'inspire' me to think a greater length about these great mysteries.
God Bless you for always putting your sources in the description box! Thanks for another great video.
Wow, just wow. I know it's been 2 years or so since you've made this video, but you deserve a "slow clap" ovation. Well done.
Came across your work on a David wood interview. Great this is what I needed, philosophy, ancient history, Biblical study and the study of the supernatural etc...
Run away from this man (at least regarding this subject). He's trying to make an All-Powerful supernatural Creator God conform to naturalistic thinking. Not to mention the fact that evolution is literally mathematically impossible. Go to the Hoover Institution on youtube to see evolution debunked by 3 experts. Also, watch videos by Dr. James Tour, a synthetic organic chemist with a multitude of scientific awards and achievements. Evolution is the biggest lie of this modern age.
Hey man. Thanks for the video. Keep doing what you're doing because even if we don't have the whole picture of what's going on with Scripture, the best progress is made by people like you. God bless.
This shows how much knowledge can be gained by careful study which you have done and which benefits us all. THANKS
Legit I fucking laugh when people say oh my God I don't need to read it I've already read the Bible bro I've been studying the Bible for 10 years now and have not even got out of the first 7 chapters in Genesis yet. That's how much study needs to be done the preachers these days are a joke they don't know their head from their butt you pay for a watered down Sunday matinee. Dare to Rob God?, you asked wherein have we robbed you? in your tithing and offerings.
Yes let's study the numbers. If they weren't literally there would be no reason for them to add up. Careful study of the ages at the time of birth and age of deaths add up to the timing of the flood.
When "philosophy" says it may not be "literal"...then can't we say that about any scripture? Should we take "Abraham died at a good old age" literally?
@@jthomas5226 excellent point. The oldest man to ever lived. Methuselah literally means his death shall bring. The moment Methuselah dies the floods came. He dies in chapter 5 and chapter 6 the floods happen, and just because you can't explain everything doesn't mean it didn't happen in the obvious way that makes the most sense.
@@jthomas5226 you’ve just given an example of the all or nothing fallacy. One can be figurative and the other literal and still there is no issue.
DUDE, this is awesome and so helpful. Thank you so much. :-)
I have been looking forward for this.
Catholic here. This is such a great video. I run into Catholics who are very literal about everything with the faith. I feel like it misses the reality of how people actually operate in the world. Great post.
Reading the Bible with the view of the world today, The Bible wont make "sense". I agree totally, Gods word is great, but we have to see certain things in the Bible differently. For example, "in the BEGINNING", doesnt say how old the earth is. Beginning doesnt have a number.
@@johanthornqvist5686 Actually, good news, it does make sense! The hebrew word we translated to "In the beginning" is "rashit," which just means "when." Along with a few other mistranslated words (Earth was void (Tohu) and formless (Bohu, both meaning unproductive), and created is "Bara" - assigning function/order), the real Genesis 1:1 should read: When God assigned function and order, the heavens and the earth was an unproductive wasteland/wilderness.
yes, we should take The Scripture literrary when it says He has perfected Forever, not until you sin, but forever
@@johanthornqvist5686 you have to decide between God's Word and man's theories
@@koidotjpeg9944 Wrong. You are just making that up. It says
“In beginning create Elohim the heavens and the earth”. Nothing more than that.
9:00: With Moses’ age, it is also interesting to note that his 120 years of life are divided in 3 stages of exactly 40 years each (3 and 40 are also popular numbers in the Bible): 1) Moses the Egyptian resident (0-40), Moses the shepherd of Midian (41-80), and Moses the servant of God and leader of Israel (81-120).
There is evidence that Moses was made up.
@@sophiawilson8696 There is evidence that you are made up.
@@1MoreTurn ok what does mean? I have a birth certificate and banks records that I exist. Moses doesn't he talk about couple of times in the bible and that it and Exodus from Egypt didn't happen. Because the Jewish people weren't enslaved.
N now athletes are considered past there prime at 32
@@sophiawilson8696
The Bible has proven to be reliable and trustworthy throughout the ages and have stood through one accusation after another.
It has always been vindicated and always will and Sophia, l wouldn't go against it.
I'll give you one example of many that the Bible has vanquished over time.
King David WAS also considered by liberal Biblical scholars to be a made-up king, like King Arthur. They touted this for many years, that is, until the Dan
(a tribe of Israel) Stelle was found in Northern Israel with the name of King David clearly written in stone.
Archaeology is the Bible's good friendly vindicator and forcing Atheists to tell the truth for many a year.
Joshua, Jericho, Isaiah having 3 authors and also Daniel had 2 authors, all have been shot down by archaeologists but not before Seminary schools tried to destroy the faith of so many students. These Atheist professors taught this crap for decades, but again Indiana Jones types seem to come through every few years, and will continue to.
I knew about the divisibility by 5, but there is so much more here! Thank you
I think this is one of the most important videos you made. Thank you for that!
Good stuff man. I appreciate digging into the detail of the genealogies.
Perfect timing for this video. Because I have a debate scheduled with a YEC tomorrow night.
@Jeshua Satterlee Judge not lest ye be judged.
Excellent. The best explanation for this chapter that I've ever encountered.
Thank you
@@InspiringPhilosophy Thanks for making this series on Genesis. I’ve always struggled with it. The only things I’m not convinced about is the Flood. But, many ancient cultures have some kind of Flood myth, surely there is a reason? Places all over the world have them so I don’t think it’s likely that they are simply copying one another.
Your wife is a 10? Congratulations bro!
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Bang bang bang! FBI open up!
I said she is A 10!
I didn't say she is 10!
Oh alright.
Retreat
Muhammad would be proud
@@dimitris_zaha Mohammad would be fine with anyone under nine as that would be his kind.
Hey IP, are you ever going to do a video about the passages in Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy? They seem to be the source of most of the controversy among atheists who think God and Christianity are evil.
Read a book called is God a moral monster it address your concerns
@@reubenlyimo If by "address" you mean 'make worse'.
@@Draezeth actually i read the whole book and it makes the laws seem better than what the internet makes it out to be you buy it and read it yourself and form you own view if you want
What is God punishing the damned for if nothing we do or don't do can help or hurt God due to his Immutability, Infinite Beatitude and Impassability? Does Aquinas write on this question?
@@michaelflores9220 The same way a judge sentences someone of a crime even though the crime never effected the judge
Not because he wants to, but because its the just thing
You missed the most important part. The hidden message in the names themselves. They mean "Man is appointed mortal sorrow but the blessed god shall come down teaching his death shall bring despairing comfort"
This "hidden" prophecy is amazing, I was awed when I first read about it.
Could you elaborate? Any links?
@@Weex1k th-cam.com/video/HUs8f-lphec/w-d-xo.html
@@Weex1k Chuck Missler made a video on it called “hidden treasures in the bible” or something along those lines
That only works in English. It is a nice coincidence but not a real prophecy.
Something important to understand is, people that lived in the pre-flood world were living in a far different world in which we live today. Hence, a reason why people at that time lived several hundreds of years. The flood changed this world to the point that it wasn't recognizable in the exact way before and why we today simply cannot understand what it was exactly like, nor should we assume that life had the exact rules as it has had post flood.
Why is it so difficult to find geological evidence that supports this idea?
However, it is not exact. The text does not say "about" 120. What is the cut-off limit that would change this interpretation? If someone lives to 126, 130, 135?
@@haggismcbaggis9485 There's so much evidence. Especially if you know the current state of what the illuminati believe about the true history of our world. They hide God from us. Evolution and a billions of years earth was their doing. If you wanna know more, check out the series, "Know Your Enemy" by The Fuel Project. One of many interesting studies I've seen out there so far. Very biblical.
@Haggis McBaggis It's not really hard to find geological evidence for that. What you won't get is "proof". What you should do is try to reimagine the world as if that were true, and then try to form explanations. You don't have to accept it, just perform that thought experiment.
Exactly!
Totally awesome presentation.
Awesome video! Very informative 👍
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video. To have someone interpret the text in it’s original context to explore the meaning is invaluable. Plus it’s actually presented in an engaging way. Love your channel
I’m a Christian. For the life of me I cannot understand how a man living over 900 years can be a “stumbling block”
While another man rising from the dead is not. 🤷♂️
Well done though, cheers mate.
Great point!
this is an apples to oranges comparison i feel. The major difference being that Adam was a mere mortal whereas Jesus is God in the flesh and has the power to be raised from the dead.
@@plantbasedwater9274 hmm. Yeah, I suppose you’re right in the sense that my example could be found lacking.
The basic rationale remains the same though.
Believing that Jesus is God is first a biblical supposition and then a rational one based upon scriptures authority. Not the other way around.
Sure, it’s logically circular but all base-level epistemological statements are.
Regardless of creed or confession.
If ya dig.
@@Exhihilbro I absolutely agree. Did I say anything else different?
@@plantbasedwater9274 Nahh. Just me unnecessarily hedging against what I thought would be the counter argument, apparently. 🤷♂️.
Cheers bro. Have a good one.
This whole series is so insightful thanks you for all the work you put into it
I love this it's so very amazing and awesome Thank-you so much sharing and explaining ...... Inspiring Philosophy Great Job!
Your work is incredible man! It's absolutely inspiring for me. Thanks to you I've learned how to balance what I've learned in my animation/ game art classes with what to show in what I learn in my readings of apologetics. You truly have the truth of God flowing from you, even if you course correct along the way. Thank you so much for everything, personally. Keep doing your work in making this important study interesting and comprehensive, I love it all!
Literalist here. I like your show, especially the genisis 1 and 2 breakdowns.. And the Abram videos.
One more crazy longevity theory, without details. Read about carbon dioxide levels and cell methylation.
Any how, keep those videos coming. Very interesting.
Great video IP
Well presented and very interesting. Thank you
I think this also shows that God wants us to live by faith and not by mathematics alone.
Glrason Parker ... not by ANY sort of mathematics! Period.
You are truly a gift to the theist community, I wish to be more like you with regards to reading extensively and whiskey drinking lol
They go hand-in-hand
@@InspiringPhilosophy scotch, bourbon or rye? I need to know what to believe.
@@InspiringPhilosophy couldn't resist eh?
Comment Connoisseur Islay scotch is the best.
@Chosen One interesting theory do u hv any links?
Great job! I think this is the best video of the series so far.
I love your videos, man! They've helped my faith tremendously.
Interesting fact, the 120 years in Genesis 6 coincides with the Hayflick Limit. There actually is a 120 year limit to our natural lifespans.
Genesis 7:11 When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.
Genesis 8:13 Noah was now 601 years old. On the first day of the new year, ten and a half months after the flood began, the floodwaters had almost dried up from the earth. Noah lifted back the covering of the boat and saw that the surface of the ground was drying.
Doesn't sound symbolic at all. If you read Genesis 8:1-12 it talks very specifically about lengths of time in months and days.
The plain meaning is that Noah was 600 when he got on the ark and 601 when he got off. He aged one year.
That is not symbolism.
I'm sure someone could spin it to be symbolic
[But I agree, it's not symbolic, but literal. I understand that inbreeding manages to add genetic problems to populations. Also, what Jacob said [That he's _old_ but he's nowhere near as old as his other fathers were]
Here: Googled it
Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said to Pharaoh, "The years of my pilgrimage are a hundred and thirty. My years have been few and difficult, and they do not equal the years of the pilgrimage of my fathers."
and in the KJV:
Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.
Edit for additional thought: You could try to spiritualize it, saying he didn't do _works_ as cool... but it doesn't make sense to say "attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage" if you're talking about doing mighty works; if you were you might as well speak outright about doing mighty works.
The only room that can be allowed for symbolic/figurative would be in genesis chapter 1 and 2. ( I personally disagree with that stance, but sure, maybe there is room for debate). The rest of genesis should be taken literal history. If not, then sure why not interpret it to be a reggional flood rather than global. Oh and now let’s interpret the genealogy as figurative/symbolic. Wow what’s next ?
@@boosminogstatus6460 Agreed. But what do you think of the idea that one shouldn't look to the Bible for facts? biologos.org/articles/series/science-and-the-bible/galileo-and-the-garden-of-eden-the-principle-of-accommodation-and-the-book-of-genesis
Silversilk I think facts will not contradict what the Bible states. I understand there are few ways of interpreting what the Bible actsully says, but my point still stands there are many facts that clearly contradict what the Bible preaches. For example naturilism and applying naturism in ur worldview can contradict what the Bible preaches on a theological level. Although I belive in general that most science application to the Bible is a secondary issue, ( certain theological issues are a primary issue ) I believe that one should be very careful in interpreting the first book of the Bible and then apply it the same way to the rest of the Bible. The Bible is God inspired and has authority over any other book that contradicts it( whether it be science or history or philosophy). I think Amongst Christians there can and should be civil debates/conversations on these topics. I think there are better arguments and explanations for old earth Christianity than this one. This idea that the ages of the people in the genealogy of genesis are just symbolic and not literal, idk where to begin.
@@boosminogstatus6460 I agree this video wasn't very... excellent. I think there are also cool arguments for young earth - this talk is so enjoyable to me I actually end up rewatching it for fun: If you have trouble finding the other three parts I will link them for you - it's a four part series and very smart. th-cam.com/video/uJGairhrPGc/w-d-xo.html
This is excellent and I will certainly keep it in mind as a reference for myself and others who might bring up this issue. I am becoming increasingly convinced that the use of numbers in the Bible (the OT at least; I haven't heard quite as much on the NT's use of numbers) is not just an interesting curiosity.
I will try to remember to pray for your work. I would almost be surprised if you aren't already, but I would be surest to remember if you do a video or series on the "dark passages of Scripture". I think that would be a real service and a gift to the Church.
This is very helpful.
This is very timely and helpful and a benefit for understanding the numbers in Genesis. thanks a lot.
It was extremely common for parents to name their first born after themselves, so many generation would pass with the first borns having the same name until you had a case where the first born didn't live long enough to have a child. I alway used this as the explanation for how long the ages were in genesis. They didn't represent a single individuals age, but the entire line of first born children. This was also how time was measured before they had calendars. They would say "in the time of...." and they would pick the name of the most well known person.
I know this is from a year ago but that’s really interesting and was wondering if you could point me to a source substantiating this claim?
My favorite video in the series this far!
Michael! In terms of the units of time in the Hebrew text, how close are the words for month and year discerned?? If I divide the age of these patriarchs by 12 as in 12 months in a given year, then their age at given event such as childbearing or death comes out to a reasonable human age. What do you think of this? Thanks.
This is one of your best defenses yet... IMO
Some things seem like a bit of a stretch and a touch of imagination, but overall I really enjoyed this video. Keep up the good work!
It takes lots, and lots, and lots, of painful mental gymnastics to believe eCatholicism. "Religion is a substitute brain"- Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry.
@@michaelflores9220 i thought that's what atheism resulted in...
wow humans being not so different after all strikes again?@@Tzimiskes3506
Great, great video and well sourced
Good video. Heretofore my best answer to "did Noah really live to be 900" would be a breezy "it's probably allegorical or symbolic or something." Thinking about this in terms of ideal numbers and cultural context helps to make this case in a less flippant, more serious way.
Symbolism is in the bible but everything can't just be symbolism because it would render it nonsensical
6:59 In Gen. 11:26 it says Terah was 70 when he had Abram, Nahor, and Haran - not 130. The math used here in the video is assuming Abram was 75 when Terah died, but the text only says Abram was 75 when he left Haran. So the video is assuming Abram left the same year his father died. But that is never stated in the text. In fact, 12:1 records God telling Abram to leave his father’s house. A statement that doesn’t make as much sense if his father was dead. It is more likely that Abram left Haram when his father was 145 and still alive. If this is correct, then no one had fathered children at 100+ y.o. since Shem. Not trying to critique the whole video but I did notice this one error.
Thank you for your comment!
great video!
I have only one problem with this. In Genesis 17:17, Abraham seems to say that he was literally almost 100 years old at that time, and also Saint Paul seems to take the age as literal in Romans 4:19. How can we solve this difficulty without descending into strict biblical literalism?
Leonardus. Yes I think the theory hits problems when you get into the narrative itself where Abraham says he's a hundred years old, and Jacob says he's 130 years old to Pharoah. Joseph says there will be 7 years of famine, that two have passed but there would yet be 5 years without sowing and reaping grain.
The problem is how do you know when the author really does mean literal years and when he doesn't in Genesis?
It seems like there is a lot to support the symbolical interpretation of the numbers so I don't dismiss it. Also I'm curious how the Rabbis as far as the earliest records of their commentaries goes understood these years. I would expect that if this was understood culturally by the Israelites to be symbolical this would emerge in their earliest commentaries on Genesis. I don't know the answer to that question.
I don't think the case is proven for the symbolism of numbers for ages in Genesis. The problem as I said is how to make sense of narratives where Abraham and Jacob specifically say what their ages are. This opens the way to the charge that the author just invented dialogue to make some symbolical theological point and this undermines the historical integrity of the narrative, I think. Paul takes it as real dialogue in Romans 4 as you said, though curiously he says "being *about* a hundred years old." Your question is a good one though.
What's wrong with taking the Bible for what it says?
@@ohisnuccadoc Lots of people through history have tried to use the datas from this chapter of Genesis, using also other datas from other historical books of the Bible and from profane history, in order to write a biblical cronology of the world, only to come out with very different results. Given that, I think an argument can be made that the numbers are not to be interpreted literally.
@@ohisnuccadoc The Bible does use numbers symbolically at times so I suppose it's whether the symbolical or literal interpretation fits best in a given book. I think there are problems with the symbolical interpretation of numbers in Genesis, though the theory is persuasive in some ways.
I wouldn't see a problem with long ages in Genesis if the literal view is correct.
I believe they ate literal. The canopy theory is plausible to explain how people could live 900 years.
Regarding what Matt said about reading extensively, do you have any tips on how to read as much as you? Thanks
Read 10-20 pages a day. In one year that is over 3,650 pages of material. I personally try to do 40 pages a day, but start at 10 and work your way up.
1000 litteral years as a Human are just the beginning. Eternal life Baby! Welcome to Heaven
I've also heard that even if names are mentioned, they could reference the progenitor of families, not one person's life span. For example, Jared is listed, but could be 10 generations of people in that family line, before a new progenitor Enoch is established.
this is really interesting
for the ages dividable by 5, they can just be rounded-up ages,
used when the exact age of death wasn't known.
Exactly. I think that IP was forwarding a false dichotomy here, where the numbers are completely literal or completely figurative. In reality, they could be approximate, as you said.
He seems to be getting hung up on the scientific plausibility of a human living to be 900 years old. Did he consider that some creatures don't undergo senescence, and that enough scientists believe biological immortality to be plausible that some of them, such as David Sinclair, are researching a cure for aging itself?
I'm a YEC and I think you did pretty good
Got a like
how???
Lmao bruh ignorant
@@alephnaught8343 Yes
Michael, great video as always. I am trying to reconcile the different ages of the traditions in Genesis with the idea that Moses wrote Genesis. Why would he switch from a base 60 system to ideal numbers if he wrote the book in his one lifetime? I'd imagine Moses will stick to one numbering system for the entirety of his writings.
I don’t think Moses wrote it all th-cam.com/video/FIOUj1wyjfg/w-d-xo.html
@@InspiringPhilosophy thanks for the video brother. I'll check it out. Be blessed!
So if it was an oral tradition he would be writing what was passed down. So different authors or oralists speaking what God wanted us to know.
Michael, are there any books you would recommend on this topic?
Jordan look up a man called Emanuel Swedenborg he explains this well.
Superb, Michael!
14:11 Enoch's age being 365 ie. a year wouldn't fit with a lunar calendar.
That's why he specified the solar year. The ancient Mesopotamians used both; they primarily used the lunar calendar but synchronized it with the solar.
One thing I think you missed is that the geneologies do work in the same way that the Sumerian official title geneologies do, in that Jesus was supposedly part of a line of priesthood.
The problem with IP is that he’s capable of recognizing this, but is incapable of explaining why he attributes divine inspiration to one and not the other.
Good video. I'm not sure I agree, but at the very least you gave me something to consider.
If God wanted us to be more precise about the beginning Adam and Eve he certainly could have been more precise with the different ages of the Patriarchs.
@Richard Fox they were
This helps to explain why the actual age at the beginning may be much greater than 6000 years I think
I’m sure that’s one of IP’s original inspirations for a video like this. He can’t accept a young earth view.
@@Ohsnapitzben why not?
No, genesis even ives ages for when Adam, Seth etc. had the next son on the list. Genesis reads like a history book.
it is definitely not 6000 nor anywhere near that number
@@Ohsnapitzben you realize we can carbon date rocks to extremely old ages right? Science is objective truth, just as christ taught metaphysical objective truth
And I thought math and high school gave me a headache 🤦
You should do a video on the reliability and history of the book of Genesis. I've long tried to find good information on it but got nothing.
th-cam.com/video/JS-KTp9LRG8/w-d-xo.html
@@InspiringPhilosophy Thank you immeasurably.
Can anyone answer in light of this? "Jacob answered Pharaoh, “The length of my stay on earth has been 130 years. The years of my life have been few and difficult, fewer than my ancestors’ years.”
Oh, you offer a good counterpoint to IP's point about Abraham seeing 100 as old for becoming a father. I do wonder if that can be explained. I'm very interested in and open to IP's interpretation, but I'm glad you point out this difficulty to it.
@@nickj5451 Its literally symbolic as he explained
Take it literally.
If you believe that God could create the universe and raise the dead then you can also believe that he let people live for 900 years
@@oasissands8584 You dont take it literally IP literally explained the culture took numbers like this symbolically.
@@305thief8 Do you bbelieve that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead?
Extra long life in a near-perfect world is much easier to believe.
I believe them both just like the Bible said
Help me out here. At 8:40 I heard:
"no doubt the number 12 denotes time, since there were always 12 months in a year."
I thought ancient Calendars had 10 months plus 60-61 days of winter. I thought the first month in ancient times was March, followed by April, May, June, QUINtillus (meaning 5th month), SEXtillus (meaning sixth month), SEPtember (7th month), OCTober (OCT as in 8 sides to an Octagon, this was the eighth month), NOVember and DECember, followed by 60-61 days of winter. This was the case until about 455 B.C. or so. Did the Egyptians speciffically always use 12 months?
I have no problem accepting that numbers can be and often are symbolic.I just don’t see the symbolism you are asserting.Clearly, Genesis is recording the ages of the patriarchs.If these ages are purely symbolic and we attribute modern lifespans to the patriarchs, that greatly reduces the age of the creation.Having heard your interpretation of Genesis, are you saying that the earth and its inhabitants were without function 4500-5000 years ago?
Genesis also records the ages of the patriarchs when they gave birth to the next generation. Is that also symbolic? You do believe the patriarchs were actual people and the genealogies are real too, right? Although I think your intentions are good, would you admit that we could find patterns and symbolism in any set of numbers if that’s what we want to see? Maybe the ages are symbolic, but they certainly aren’t obviously so and are written as if recording history.
You also have defended the position that the process of death began after Adams and Eves sin.If I take your position wouldn’t I have to say the rest of the human population was sinless? Does that seem realistic to you?
My main disagreement so far with your interpretation of Genesis is that the line between historical and metaphorical is increasingly difficult to define.On one hand you say that Genesis is a metaphorical Temple inauguration and on the other you claim that the narrative is historical also. You say that the patriarchs existed but the ages are symbolic. You say the tree of life could have prevented death, while saying you reject the ages because they are unscientific. You say that God had to assign functions to the fish and the birds that already existed, but what the heck do you think they were doing before that? I agree that God assigned function to his creation.I just think it makes a lot more sense that he did so the moment he created it. Genesis is defined as the origin of something. Another words the origin of creation.For some reason you make a semantical shift about the creation and say that the culture wasn’t concerned about it, but they recorded it in the first line of Genesis. “When God made the Heavens and The Earth” records the creation of material. I will grant you that they weren’t interested in where the material came from but in my opinion it seems more logical to conclude that all of life was created with a function and purpose necessarily so. If you take the days of Genesis as literal days and believe in evolution from a universal common ancestor, then you are definitely going to run into contradictions. You would have to defend that the earth was a formless water wasteland days before the creation of mankind or mankind was assigned the function of being fertile and multiplying. How does evolution fit into that? Where were the people living before God separated the water from the land? Where were all the land animals living before God separated the water from the land? How did all of plant life outside of the water evolve in just in just days? When God said let the water teem with living creatures, do you believe it already was teeming with living creatures? I think we both can agree that all life has functionality and that God created it for a purpose.I can’t relate to the idea that life existed for millions of years without God assigning a function to it. You’re making an issue out of material creation that I don’t think exists.The issue is fitting any evolutionary explanation that is compatible with Genesis and unless you take all of Genesis 1 as metaphorical, I don’t think it’s possible. Genesis is not a scientific account of origins, It is on the other hand, a supernatural account of origins. Since you do accept the supernatural, I don’t quite understand your motivation to give a natural explanation of a supernatural event.He certainly gave the land and the water functionality, but you’re ignoring that he separated the land from the water on day three or does the Hebrew not say that?
Sorry for going on for so long but I do hope you had the time to read this because I do value your opinion.Nothing I said is an attack on your character or your Christianity. My intention is to better understand your position and to understand how you answer the contradictions and issues that I would have if accepting your view.God bless you.
Personally, I take the _whole_ of Genesis as metaphorical myself. Right off the bat, the order 'of creation' is demonstrably wrong anyhow. But, as I mention elsewhere - and possibly as a result of the influences from the Babylonian exile - which WAS real if you check, then the practice of almost mystical Jewish numerology was developed. See: - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria
@@glutinousmaximus definitely not literal or metaphorical but a polemic against the surrounding nations/god's "competing" for Israel's worship...
+
The six days of creation are not literal 24 hours each, they are ages or a way to summarize the creation in 6 steps in order to make a sense the perfect 7, the number of God.
@@MAP2023 how do you know what is and isn't literal?
Was the thesis of the post.
Hey IP do you have a recommended list of books? On my channel I have Amazon links to all of the books I recommend. You should set up an affiliate account and link all of the books you reference. Then we can just click the links and order.
I will never claim to know such things as this topic, yet I still would like to acknowledge this as a convincing argument.
Based on your argument: virgin birth, resurrection and not to mention thousands of prophecies; all need to allegorized if youre consistent.
Slippery slope fallacy
Samuel Ryan IP believes in the virgin birth and he’s already made a video on why the Resurrection is true and not an allegory
The comment was in reference to the video. The argument made in the video was that the numbers in Genesis 5 are not literal because the narrator finds them "highly improbable" and not what we know from "science". Thus if this narrator takes other passages dealing with virgin birth, resurrection, etc, these also are improbable and not what we know of science. If the video Creator were consistent in his arguments, he would denounce these as well. Again, this is about his basis for believing the numbers in Genesis 5 are not literal. Whether he actually believes in virgin birth, resurrection, whatever...it's only relevancy to this discussion is to see if he is consistent: numbers aren't literal BECAUSE IMPROBABLE vs virgin birth ALSO IMPROBABLE. I'm merely pointing out consistency. From my experience, the more I take the Bible literal, the greater the revelation of God and the more I am blessed (which is the same thing, imo).
Oh, and by the way, there is a whole field of science dedicated to hacking our genetic code to live forever. In other words, there are many scientific reasons to take the numbers literal. In fact, the real mystery is why are bodies don't live longer? We know the atmosphere was different in history, even secular science tells us that. How would that effect longevity? There were also Dinosaurs which suggests at some point our world was different.
I feel like the symbolism argument is worthless. Why would you use such manipulative ideas?
Yes people use symbolism but MOST document accurate numbers when writing History or for preserving information.
Describing your father as 318 is one thing but to make a list of your family tree, while noting each person’s sex, Father, mother, brother, sister, age one was when children were born and death are most likely not going to be symbolically represented. To believe that is absurd.
@Daniel Draper thank you for this
I think when it says in Ecclesiastes that the spirit returns to God who gave it is that this is our separate identity when our body dies and our soul dies too so we are alive to God in heaven but we're not complete until we are reunited with a new body and a New Soul.
Got me shook when you said "my wife is a 10 " 😂😂, good for you 👌🏻👌🏻
"Shook"? Does your Black Vernacular English Dictionary contain an error? I don't think I have ever seen that word used like that.
@@tahzibizimungu7677 ohh shut up
@@Mr_A1-37 😂
I’ve only watched about 6 minutes because I have to run to a meeting, so forgive me if this is covered. First off, one of the Mesopotamian myths gives the name of the town where their hero lived. I have lost the book, but archeologists found that this town had a unique counting system that employed fractions in a unique way that they used for all types of counting. So ages were written in fractions also. If a later interpreter did not understand this, then the numbers would be greatly exaggerated. I have found this information in two separate books, one of which I owned, but is now missing. I will try to find it and post the info here.
Did you find it?
Do let us know! 🙌 I like looking at number systems.
Very interesting. I live in Asia and spend some time in Thailand. There they celebrate cycle birthdays. 1 cycle is 12 years, the time it takes for you to cycle back into your zodiac sign. (Chinese zodiac that is) So traditionally people would celebrate your cycles as important. For example, if you are 3 cycles old, everyone would know you mean 3x12 (36) This whole system is also imbedded in a 60 year cycle where you repeat 5 cycles to work through the yin/yang and the 5 elements. So on you 5th cycle you would be in the 5th element of your sign. For example: If you are the Rat born in the year of Yang Wood. Your 1st cycle will be Year of the Rat in Yang Fire and so on till you reach Yang Water. From here they even give numbers of times of birth that would be the best time to be born. (Down to day and hour) They even look at the solar longitude as it correlates to months and lunar months. There is so much there in the numbers. I could say I am 36 or 3 cycles in the year of the Metal Rooster. That says a lot about who you are and what kind of person you are in some cultures. Long story, but I wonder how astrological knowledge would have figured into this system? It seems strange at times trying to wrap your head around this way of counting and thinking, yet in cultures where cycles and symbols is a regular part of counting and convening meaning it makes sense. Thanks for sharing. :)
4:38 I guess that 110 was the ideal age in Egyptian inscriptions, but why Joshua and not Moses? I know Joshua has a connection with Egypt, but Moses has an even bigger connection, after all he IS the Prince of Egypt! Yet he lived to 120 and not 110!
Edit: at 7:35 the ages used there are ages used from biblical manuscripts families from ~300 AD onwards[Latin Vulgate, Masoretic], biblical manuscript families from ~400 BC to ~100 AD [Samaritan, Septuagint, and even Flavius Josephus] add an extra 650 years total from Arphaxad to Nahor. Making IP's point invalid.
Edit 2: So people have been saying that the reason Joshua lived to 110 and not Moses was because Moses betrayed Egypt. So did Joshua, since he was Moses's follower and successor. In fact, Joshua has almost nothing to do with Egypt, other than being born in Goshen, Egypt. But so was Moses, in fact, Moses was the son of the daughter of a pharaoh, he was brother to another pharaoh, he was a prince and a judge in Egypt, and Moses is an Egyptian name [Being an ending to a name, meaning "The son of the god" eg. Thutmoses, the son of the god Thoth, and Rameses, the son of the god Ram]. So Moses, being an Egpytian, related to the pharaoh, a prince, and judge in Egypt, and having an Egyptian name, he should live to 110 and not Joshua.
I think is 'cause he left Egypt with the Israelites.
@Kaizer Zotac Moses was an egyptian, grandson of a pharaoh, brother of a pharaoh, a prince, and a judge in Egypt, and had an Egyptian name. Moses was righteous, and lived a good egyptian life, so he should've lived to 110 rather than some guy who literally has no other connection to Egypt than being born in Goshen. In fact, Joshua was Moses's follower and successor, so why would the successor of a person who waged war on Egypt live to an age of egyptian perfection?
@Kaizer Zotac IP explained in the video that 110 specifically meant a perfect Egypt life you uncultured troglodyte
@Kaizer Zotac "IP explicó en el video que 110 significaba específicamente una vida perfecta en Egipto, troglodita sin cultura" is that better language?
@Kaizer Zotac "without brian" lol
The genealogy seems to go into Adam and the descendants of Seth, but never the house of Cain. I have supposed that Cains descendants, or at least most of them, would have had an ordinary life expectancy for their time. The reasons the descendants of seth early on have such early lives could be simply the same reason a few loaves of bred fed 5000, simply a miracle of God.
You've got it IP! Divide the numbers! Get the 7s and 60s!
In all seriousness, there is no reason to suggest we must begin dividing all the Biblical numbers by 5, 2 or 7 for no other reason than because they can be divided that way.
Noah begat Shem when he was 502, not 500, so what is the spiritual significance of 502 compared to 500?
All this to say: you can't just make up a reason to reject the clear and simple meaning of the text - and Sargon building a wall is very much not in the context of a genealogy. If he built a wall to 16,283 cubits according to the number of his name, would he then go and build a wall of 5,000 cubits? Unlikely.
Just a question? If the Bible states that Enoch had a child when he was 65 years old, how young was he actually? I’m asking because another study worked on a division of 10 or 12 to work out the accurate ages and the only problem on that would suggest that Enoch was only 5-6 years old when he became a father which makes that idea go out the window!!
Good question, the assumptions made here in this video are ridiculous at best!
Hey, Michael. Thank you for this video. It is very interesting.
As you may know by now, Dr. David Falk holds to a different theory for the genealogies, that they are meant to represent the age and lifespan of the whole clan, not just the individual.
I think that is another fascinating take, but he doesn't offer any citations for this and I don't know where to find any other proponents of that idea, so I don't know where is the research that supports it.
It would be very helpful if you can make a video on that theory.
Thanks.
Can an age be both literal and symbolic at the same time? it's not always one or the other.
What did God say?
Hmmm I was thinking...
perhaps the Gen. 1- 11 was an older tradition still known when Moses was around so he used it to start Genesis, and continued onwards until Joseph (Now implementing cultural traditions from his time and location.)
I've thought so too. It would be odd to exclude this possibility for Genesis when we readily accept that for instance Chronicles was based upon the already existent narrative of Kings, instead of being some new revelation. But the human element in the inspired Scripture is often ignored when it becomes inconvenient.
Hi, great video pal.
I was wondering how old do you think the Earth is, bc if the numbers arent really years then the 6000y idea is possibly wrong.
It is, the earth is probably 4.6 billion years old. The Bible is not focused on such topics so it doesn’t take a stance on that.
@@InspiringPhilosophy Why do you insist on corrupting the youth and propagating the great apostasy? FYI, if you truly believe in Jesus Christ as your God and Saviour, you must have faith that His Word is true. You can't try and mix God's Word with the unclean ideas of men.
I suggest you watch these two videos, providing mathematical and chemical challenges to the very idea of evolution. The first video practically says that evolution is literally mathematically impossible. The second video is one of Dr. James Tour, one of the absolute best scientific minds of today. Just read his qualifications and achievements and you'll want to know what he has to say.
th-cam.com/video/noj4phMT9OE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/r4sP1E1Jd_Y/w-d-xo.html
Once you understand these scientific facts, you ought to reconsider this nonsense "theology". Think of who you are really serving, are you really serving the LORD your God? Or rather, are you serving your own sinful desire to be part of this world. God calls His people to be holy, meaning "separate" or "set apart".
1 Peter 3:3-4: "knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, 'Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.'"
Don't be a scoffer following the world. Follow God and look for the truth. I think you need to learn more about the last days, because if you knew the time we are in, you would be far more skeptical of modern "scientific consensus".
In ancient cultures where most people could not read, histories and genealogies needed to be memorable. Numerics and consistent groupings are mnemonic techniques that weave a memorable theme into the message.
It seems interesting to me that man begins to die earlier after the flood. Possible reasons for this could be: change in atmosphere, loss of genetic diversity, loss of nutrition from plants that went extinct.
I know IP doesn't believe in a global flood, but that seems like one of those positions people arrive at out of concession rather than exegesis.
Genesis 9 verses 28-29, "After the flood Noah lived 350 years. All the days of Noah were 950 years, and he died." That is exact and is not to be taken anyway, but literal
Lmao. Stop. Literal my ass
Yeah, just because something is said, doesn’t mean it should be taken literal. 😂😂😂
Did you watch their video? Notice the formula those follow? Both end in 0? The ancient people didn’t use numbers in a literal sense. What proof do you have?
@@mr16325 Why do you want proof? Oh wait, maybe I shouldn't take it literally that you want proof just because you said it.
Divide by 60 bro:. 7 and 17
Didn't you learn anything from this video?
@@danielbraun6621 The Bible doesn't tell me to do math when it tells me an exact age. I will trust it over you.
Neat stuff. I just always assumed that people counted years differently back then.
There's no reason to believe the numbers shouldn't be taken literally.
If God's Word says 900 y/o I will go with that and when I get to heaven if God thinks it is important he will tell us..
Why did they suddenly go from using massive numbers for age before the Flood to small numbers for age after the Flood?
For the literalist, this is easy to answer. The whole nature of the environment was changed by the flood event.
This would include much higher oxygen levels that have been measured trapped in air bubbles inside of fossilized amber (think Jurasic Park), a well as likely higher air pressure.
Provided an environment that promotes healing, longer lives are normal.
Longer lives also explain most, if not all dinosaurs, since reptiles don't stop growing. There are many modern animals who resemble classic dinosaurs. Might it be possible that given a lifespan 10x's greater, perhaps we are essentially looking at what were once dinosaurs?
The notion of a healing environment would also account for the former existance of mega-fauna.
@@NicholasChorba You're preaching to the choir. I believe all of what your said, except for some slight differences. I was just trying to trap the person into answering the question because it would expose that his argument for their ages being recorded differently makes no sense. We know they lived as long as they say they did back then, but some people try to attack that notion and say it's not true.
@@cephyr13 he has some interesting things to say here, but even if the numbers are symbolic in some way, he's forgetting that God knew these people would be recorded, and that He holds our lives in his hands. Very easy for Him to end their lives at the apropriate times.
@@NicholasChorba Well, scientists have said that humans could possibly live 10 times longer with double air pressure and a little higher percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere because the body is constantly repairing itself under those conditions rather than degrading under our current conditions.
So with this approach, I’m not seeing consistency with verses like Genesis 11:10. Admittedly, haven’t dug into this for more than the past couple hours, but I don’t see any other way than to take at least this set of ages and begats literally as ‘toledoth’ the video is great and useful, but it seems you might have overlooked this chapter to a detriment. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!
My mind has been blown!
So, it seems that the ancient records of ages were more a tradition of describing *quality* of the subject's years, rather than the *quantity* of years?
I think that's a pretty good observation
he Genesis genealogies also give specific ages for when these people had the sons that were next on the list. The text would never do that if the long goes were just symbolism meant to honor these people.
@@michaelflores9220 I don't understand your response.
Another theory is that humans were closer to perfection and could live longer. Or, after the great flood, the expanse that was shielding humans from the sun was no more, thus causing humans to die sooner from the affects of the sun's radiation...just a thought
@@davidt51 The sun has very little to do with human lifespans, at least in the sense that slightly more sun wouldn't kill you faster, if the sun reached lethal levels of radiation you'd just die very soon.
Oh man, it’s cool to hear mention of those ages in Genesis 5 being divisible by 5 or ending in 2’s or 7’s. I was musing over those ages a year ago and noticed that. I tried dissecting any symbolism in the numbers but Lamech’s 777 was all that stood out. Too bad we can’t figure out exactly what those numbers represent
Because they are literal ages. I think the canopy theory explains how people could live that long and why they dropped to 400 after the flood. Eventually the maximum age would be 120 years, which is exactly what he told Noah.
Brother Your study is excellent 👍 but can you plz redefine the years calculated 12600 with days mentioned in Rev. 11:3 No
Of days 1260
0:35 The phrase “let alone” is used of the less likely choice. “You couldn’t run a mile in a whole hour, let alone four minutes.”