I can see where this can be really powerful, especially early own. But it also seems a lot riskier. High risk for high reward. Because if you don't get the breakthroughs for what you need early on, you've got a lot of wasted opportunity.
True, absolutely. I found that if I do not get the breakthroughs I like, I immediately cut on Breakthrough hunting and rush to my Magnetic Weaponry instead. Having an extra scientist (from your laboratory) makes the abhorrent 28 days a much more manageable 14 on Commander and does similarly well on Legend. But I think it's absolutely fair to say that this opening strategy is very risky compared to more classic approaches.
@@QuickSaveTV In fact it is the BRITISH way to pronounce it. What we in Central Europe are used to is mainly the American pronounciation. It proves again that most of us actually speak a tangled mix of American and English
Im playing through WOTC for the first time atm. Im following suggestions in this and other videos. I built a lab as my 2nd building after GT. Im getting a lot of breakthroughs and inspirations just as described in this video. Im not sure if the inspirations are related to the lab or im just lucky, but i get them so often its actually getting a little annoying as im not able to reaearch the normal tech i want to :)
It's a good question, depends on whether or not you can afford it. It is definitely a great Expansion pack, it innovates and improves on virtually every facet of original XCOM2. It is definitely hella expensive for a DLC though. I think the XCOM2 was much more expensive to make than XCOM: Enemy Unknown and they are trying to make up for it with the post-launch content, but I may be wrong.
My first 3 buildings are …. GTS, Resistance Ring, and Laboratory in that order. The new lab is pretty amazing as you stated, and well worth the cost in the long run so build it early to get the full benefit of it and make sure you staff it and upgrade it asap.
Well technically 5th and 6th since you'll need to build a power relay or get lucky with the resistance orders or rumors on the map that give Avenger power.
I'm playing through one right now and might have to go for it, I struggle on Legend so much I overlooked it because I wouldn't have the alloys to take advantage of it, but I didn't even think with that extra time I can hit up those good breakthroughs and not lose TOO much time. I will say this guide still has a faulty premise because no matter what even if you get the +1 to tier one lucky build you're not going to do better than squad size 1 upgrade coming as fast as you can, or quick resistance ring (second build) and abusing promotion missions with your second engineer to rush to squad size two. Even an assault on a mission is a +3-4 but with flanks and high ground ect the +1 squad size should be netting you more bang in your missions buck than a +1 to all tier one or at least as much... and it's a guarantee shot so to speak instead of the random +1 to tier 1 breakthrough chance. But if sounds like Labatory 3rd building is a perfect spot for it that I never considered!
You think starting Lab before GTS is worth it? With the new Tiredness system it seems important to fill out one or two extra squads of soldiers to handle missions while your A Team is recuperating, and I find that on Legend I can't really afford to bring rookies on most missions to get them their first promotion, so the GTS is essential for training them into squaddies. It also seems like there's limited benefit to getting research finished substantially before you can afford to buy the thing you researched.
Good points, both of them. It really depends on the tempo you manage to set on your playthrough, because yes, as you've mentioned not having money to purchase new gear will make research worthless, while not having the ability to fight effectively will make you struggle really bad on Legend difficulty. If you expect to struggle, just delay your Laboratory for a bit later. Let's say a 3rd building or even 4th or 5th. I, personally, can manage to build Lab first when I do try to play on Legend, but honestly, I struggle. Not so much due to having Lab first, but for making mistakes that end up costing me. If you can manage your supplies and intel effectively (basically try to hoard a whole bunch of supplies) you can easily get Magnetic weaponry on Legend very quickly which will make your life easier in midgame, and allow you to reach it quicker, but if you cannot survive the early game it may not matter at all.
By the time you get to sergent (which you need to expand squad to 5) GTS 1st is a waste of time . This guy gets it. I always go lab 1st now after I tried it 1 time its amazing. Ya some are right you dont always have the cash or mats to build stuff ....but at least I can build it and I almost never have a problem buying what im researching cause its called saving for a rainy day. Later guys!
you can build resistance ring and get rookies promoted by sending them on covert ops with additional benefit of whatever reward you get. Rookies always get promoted after finishing their firs covert op, and since most covert ops are around 10 days long anyway and you can send two or sometimes three soldiers at once it`s actually more efficient.
Resistance ring is one of the buildings I get in my first 3 100% of the time, regardless of when (or if I ever) get the lab. Also, it's not typically 10 days long, unless you count it without an engineer staffed. On Commander and below it's about 4-10 days, mostly 4-8 days long missions, on Legend it's double of that, all with engineer staffed. Also, I agree that you can promote your Rookies easily this way, but you do not get them of specific class and it takes them away for a while. Also, it is typically difficult to get a whole bunch of them to the high level because after Squaddie the leveling through Covert Ops slows down dramatically.
@@erictred4529 On legend then yeah i think lab first is a good thing. I havent done that yet but i have seen several things indicating that it may be a good ide. But the reson i think most ppl dont like it is if u dont play on legend then clearing areas, building and researching is nearly 50% shorter then what the time is on legend. Becouse u can build and research most stuff mutch faster. Below legend u unlock alot of stuff mutch faster and so u get the feeling that u cant build all the things u want and speeding it up even more just add to the problem. With the increased time on everything your supplys have a chans to stack up to the point when u actully need it.
I kind figured this out on my own, but I wish I would have come across this video sooner, is my opinion the best video I’ve come across on the matter.🎉🎉🎉
I am trying a lab build (second to GTS) on a commander iron-man play through. I previously ignored the lab and followed the more traditional "anti-lab" advice. What ended up happening in the late game is that I was too far behind the aliens in terms of technology. I was always playing catch up and losing my most experienced soldiers. When I eventually did get power armor and plasma weapons, I only had rookies to put it on. The results were still really bad. I think the lab route is often overlooked but I can see the benefit in rushing research and getting that edge in the arms race earlier.
I like lab first then resistance ring and gts 3rd, you don't have the rank or money for gts upgrades anyway. The lab, ironically, can slow your critical research however. The breakthroughs are too good to ignore, mostly.
Honestly i went when i get to decide because in the last 2 campaings our of 3 i did, i went in this order (from left to right depending on what slot i had) Gerilla Tactic (for had acess to squad upgrade and train them to what i want) > Ring facility in the middle > Training facility, then in the 2nd row Power Relay/resistance coms > Workshop > Proving ground/infirmary. Its in the 3rd row that if i had a powercoil , i instead bulid the power relay instead since it gives you 10 power and increase even more with engies (bonus if is below the workshop). Then there is were i put the laboratory or anything else. Need to said, most of this was because i got lucky and got things like the resistance order to increase excavations speed by 25% and 2 instant dig breakthrogh when i was reaching where the power coil was, making it perfect for put the Power Relay there. In my last campaing, Laboratory was relegated to one of the lowest part. BUT i think on my 4th i will try to buld Laboratory at least at the 3rd thing instead of Training Facility.
I do this on my actually Commander run. It's a game Change. Also, you can combine a laboratory breakT plus a operation breakT, suck like +1assault rifle bônus dmg, and a +1 beam wep dmg. Long story short: is vialible and a a plus 3 dmg rifles is OP
Thank you Champ! I like listening to your 'Speedy' talk! Tapcat made me sleepy. You fire me up!!! Xcom2 is the hardest game ever so make more vids! love your work!
Duno why but i have always built the lab 1st, BUT need to control it right as breakthrough's can be non stop and if you take em all the time you may actually end up worse off. Since i got the game i always built it 1st thought others did to till i saw this.
Yes, 100% agree. For me, I try to build both OR if I go a more conservative approach I skip laboratory and definitely build the Resistance Ring in first 3 facilities.
Neato! Thanks for the heads-up. Thanks to Long War 2 I already grew fond of the Laboratories, but seeing how there are 12 slots and 13 (I think?) buildings with WoTC that can be constructed, the Lab (again) got the short stick in my head. I think I'll revalue my priorities for my next campain seeing the added benefits from the expansion.
12 slots, but 12 buildings, as far as I know. Just actually had to count them the other day, haha. Definitely, do not diss the lab, this facility is dope. I actually am playing the game again and this time, against myself, went ahead and ignored the lab in my first three buildings. REALLY slows down the acquisition of breakthroughs and inspirations. I mean so much so that I actually feel the pain of how slow my research is going. Best of luck and thank you for watching!
hah, vey interesting! I'll try this in my next legendary playthrough. I always wondered if you could get ahead of the aliens if you build labs and rushed for research breakthroughs. Can you or anyone in the comments tell me if it is actually possible to have more advanced weapons and armor using this method before the next tier of aliens start to appear? It is quite common to end up with ballistic weapons + ballistinc aromor vs. vipers, mutons and bots with grenade launchers. Can you actually turn this around and face advent soldiers + sectoids when you are already packing plate armor and magnetic rifles? So far the game felt like it was catching up to everything that I did. As soon as I had mag rifles, mutons and bots started to appear on the next mission. It felt pretty scripted.
Yes and no. No in the sense of you won't get the missions or have the alloys to buy at the black market to get ahead of them that fast. However, tier 1 assualt rifle is 3-5, tier 2 is 5-7. If you get one breakthrough for one weapon for assualts you kind of have an inbetween one. If you get one breakthrough through Labatory and one breakthrough for a different weapon through covert ops, you can prioritize training just those two classes early game and again you won't have the jump on them but you'll at least be in between the two and early game you need all the help you can get. I'd still say though, the best is rushing promotions through covert ops for one guy to get him to captain as fast as you can to get squad size two. The biggest damage upgrade you can get is adding to your squad as opposed to +1 of any specific weapon. I could see the argument for +1 of an entire tier of weaponry being at least as powerful as that. But as you said even the stronger aliens appear in the game super fast, so even in his example of getting the Reaper +1 killing advent troopers... by like the second or third month or whatever you're facing MECs and such and suddenly the equation really hasn't changed that much for a given encounter. You still need flanks for crits, most likely by destroying cover with grenades, and guaranteed kills with up close shotgun rangers.
I cannot agree more :-) Although I wouldn't say that the laboratory IS the first thing I want to build in a campaign, BUT it is surely on the first three buildings list! Habitually, I do GTS first, then Covert Ops, then Laboratory (so third building)
This is my order. Fatigue makes gts to important. And squad size 1 ASAP. Then RR. 3 ops per month very important. Then lab. Then power. Then I get torn and it depends on your position
Hi really enjoyed this vid i hope you give some tips on forming a proper squad on various situation like when to bring a skirmisher/templar/reaper/psi soldier with the other basic characters thanks and good luck
If you watch this six years later, don't do this on Legend. Unless you want an extra challenge then go ahead. The strategy is sub optimal compared to the GTS-Ring-Proving Grounds-Infirmary route. Squad size is the most powerful upgrade you can get early on and it lasts throughout the game unlike +1 conventional weapons. Ring is essential because mission rewards include promotions which will allow you to get to max squad size in the first two months. Also unlocking the faction hero's and the mission options is crucial to get as many avatar reduction missions as you can to keep the doom clock under control. The Proving grounds provide bluescreen rounds which add 5 damage against robotic enemies and bypasses energy shields. That alone is worth more than any upgrade and on top of that you get alien hunter gear from the DLC, emp bomb, plasma grenades, status effect rounds that also give +1 damage, a spark if you are weird and like using those and the skulljack. If your campaign goes exceedingly well and you find that you are finishing most of your missions flawless you could maybe build a lab instead of the infirmary as your fourth building. But if you get a sabotage that puts the fear of chosen into four or five of your troops and you don't have infirmary you're kinda screwed. TLDR: GTS - squad size upgrade. Best upgrade in the game. More soldiers = more actions, more damage, more utility, more angles to flank the enemy. Weapon upgrade = only more damage. It's not even close. Ring - promotions, avatar reduction missions, breakthroughs that don't delay your research, resistance order missions, stronghold missions that increase the number of resistance orders you can have active. A sneaky bonus is ring missions where you get ambushed. They are very scripted and can be done flawless every time which makes them an additional source of XP early on. You do have to be careful what soldiers to send on these missions though, the reinforcement pod of two troopers and a captain can be tricky. A ranger and a templar with parry will do just fine, use that. Proving Grounds - bluescreen. There's other things too, they're very good but bluescreen alone makes Proving Grounds invaluable. Infirmary- on Legend you can get a soldier being taken out of commission for up to 60 days. If you are a god among men and you flawless most missions (in other words you save scum) you may not need it as much but it's still nice to have for those random negative traits the Chosen like to send your way via sabotage. If you play Ironman - get it. You will need it, badly. P.S. If you play on Legend you will not have any issues with resources. Everything takes so long to research, excavate and build that by the time you have the option to build/upgrade you always have the cash and materials for it.
I see your point regarding those Inspired research goals. My concern is even if you do research Tier2 weapons faster, you might not have enough supplies to actually build them? Still you've got me intrigued, perhaps for my next game my 1st level build order will be GTS, Resistance Ring, Lab.
You will absolutely have to use black market and deviate from your normal priorities to get the Supplies needed to finance your new technology. Because of the nature of this strategy, that is pretty much a necessity. With the setup you've proposed it is unlikely that you will run out of Supplies, as you're delaying the Laboratory to the 3rd item, usually, you'd "starve" if you rush it first, but even then you can adjust and use the Black Market to raise funds.
Now that I think about it, I can delay the Resistance Ring to 3rd item. In my current game I used Covert Ops to level up my rookies, but their promotions are random. Better to use the GTS to get rookies up to classes I actually need. So GTS > Lab > RR. Captured Mox will just have to wait :P
I had to start a new game to try this, my curiosity could not be denied. Turns out you don't need a Resistance Ring to run the covert op to rescue Mox. Then you need the RR to run more c/o's. By the time I've built the RR as 3rd building, I should have all squaddies, no more random promotions.
Sweet! I don't play the game with Lost and Abandoned enabled though so rescuing Mox is not a point of consideration for me, I do build Resistance Ring simply to get "free" stuff.
Early lab strategy really really need some luck. If breakthrough or inspired researches are good, like early magnetic weaponry or +1 damage, that game will be succesful. But if the breakthrough or inspired researches are not that great, than that game will be doomed. I'm playing commander ironman, and had 1 successful early lab, and 2 failed early lab. In addition, this strategy need some luck with engineer numbers. The most serious problem is, proving ground or infirmary will be delayed because of the lab. That causes lots of troubles
Fair points! I personally found no issue with delaying some of my other buildings, as I only really want to get GTS (Squad upgrades asap) and Shadow Ring (for Covert Ops and additional chance to fish for early engineers and scientists), so a laboratory feels a natural fit. Moreover, I tried the same approach on Legend difficulty and I can see it having the potential, however I still struggle with the difficulty somewhat. But on Commander Ironman, I have never been pushed to such a situation where my breakthroughs doomed me. Even when I got no breakthroughs at all (which was mostly frustrating, but not lethal to my efforts).
You can always sell some of your stuff on Black Market, even the stuff you potentially need. If you play the market well and can risk selling it to get other stuff right now you will have just enough for your other projects!
i rushed the psi lab on my chosen play threw and got a guy cooking in there soon as possible. the issues im having is im not getting as many engineer's this run. but im a time milker i want to be able to beat the dlc monsters with 0 damage on each run so far im 2 for 2 now im hoping i can offence up enough to kill that last one without a problem. every mission i go on im taking freeze and mimics just to hold off the escape. im having trouble making room for labs ill have to try to force it in defence guns probably will have to go
Just started playing this game and discovered this channel... now I am more excited about this channel then the game. Thanks alot for all the awesome content
Ive finished ironman commander without lab. The time spent on breakthroughs is pointless when you can just use that time to rush the next tech. And getting damage upgrades for classes of weapons that wont even be used late game is a waste of time strategically. Like i said, ive ever the hardest difficulty without any of those bonus upgrades so it could just be that you need to go back and look how your approaching the battlefield tatically. On a side note. You can get breakthroughs through covert ops which maybe 1 or 2 of them are decent. But i always priortize soilder promotions to get early majors.
@@AnimePigeon I can't wait. It's supposed to be similar to Apocalypse, hopefully we get the factions and interactions with them, as Apocalypse came before my time
Instructions unlcear. My brain got hung up at "welcome to QuickSave TV". :-) But hands down: this strategy didn't work out for me. I used the scientist-rush in die original 199x X-Com Enemy Unknown (100 scientists are ususally more then enough, even in Open X-Com). But i never managed to facilitate a similiar strategy in the newer X-Com games.
Havent build one this far. Just keep the scientist flows in if you have time to do it. They decrease time needed to be fully research. Heck, didnt take long enough to do t3 research
It's not the same for several reasons I've mentioned. It's about the speed, the frequency of Breakthroughs and Inspirations. I'm not saying you MUST build it, you obviously do not, all I'm saying is it is an interesting, powerful and viable alternative to the classic openings.
Fair point, but if you get it early enough, as I did, you would reconsider your stance. If you get it very early on, you suddenly no longer have to rush to T2, you can instead adopt a more weighted approach and reconsider your options. Obviously it is irrelevant if you get it too late, but I honestly have never got this breakthrough after I've researched my tier 2 (and I've played a LOT of wotc, most of it with laboratory as one of my first 3 facilities).
Honestly, I have never tried that. Never actually thought about it, clever ploy. If let's say you have a Conventional Weapons breakthrough as well as a bunch of scientists (with laboratory or without), you could hypothetically rush the T2 weaponry research, then T2 Snipers/Heavy and then march straight to Elerium and subsequent research. Honestly, this is quite greedy even for me, but sounds interesting to say the least.
I doubt it as well. I've seen breakthroughs (or inspirations) at the same time as instant autopsies a bunch of times. Doing the instant autopsy first doesn't cancel the breakthrough, so it really is instant -- doing anything else (including starting a different research project, and immediately trying to change it) will remove the breakthrough opportunity. So, I don't think instant autopsies count the same way in refreshing the research choices (and therefore likely couldn't trigger a breakthrough/inspiration).
Yes, but not. I play it on Legendari, saving-loading as many times as a need. Lab first makes you extremely weak at the very beging, cos you will figth with only four soldiers. That's simply not enought. The chances of survival decreases greatly with lab first. Imagine the risk playing on Iroman. I usually build lab in third place, after Tactis and Ring. Also early lab can make your normal science grow swoly. Yes, it does. Lab makes a low improvement in science's speed. What it does is increase the chance of special techs or inspired techs. That special techs requires time (10 days each, if my memori don't fail). There are more than 15 special techs, in grose numbers, near to half year of investigation. You could skip some techs, but lose the chance of researching, so lab will not usefull than it could. ¿When in the hell you will have plasma guns and predator armors?. Lately, for sure. If you'r looking for the perfect team, with all upgrades and good stuff, well, you'll need lab first. But you'll pay a high price for that. Meaby one that you can't afford. Nice vid, anyways. Thanks for sharing.
A risky strategy, all the breakthroughs are by RNG, I followed your strategy, didn't see any good breakthorughs, only all the crap breakthroughs such as cheaper relays building costs, faster digging speed and the early heavy cost really made all my development lagging behind, i tried this several times, really bad
Quality of information shouldn't drop. I didn't suffer a brain damage. If anything, I hope I can eliminate even more inaccuracies in whatever I try to explain. One thing that I honestly have to work on is to learn to edit my shit better. It's just really a massive chore for me, not something I'm passionate about, but it needs to be at least on the level. This one was with no edits, done in one take. The classic research for days, do a video in about 1 hour.
slow down dude, it's a video not a race.. Do you need to pay for each minute uploaded? Take it a bit slower so everyone can follow you. I do not have problems following you but not everyone (especially non english speaking people) can follow you. I expect you make these videos because you like to learn new things to people, keeping them informed. Well, taking time to explain things and take is slow will let you reach more people ;)
Man speaks at 2x speed
I use .75 playback speed. Sounds perfect in my opinion.
@@Novocaine33oh ya 😂😂
I’m glad I found this video, because it legit made my last play through OP.
Excellent strategy, i got for my first breakthrough a +1 to basic weapons, suddently lost missions were all fun.
I can see where this can be really powerful, especially early own. But it also seems a lot riskier. High risk for high reward. Because if you don't get the breakthroughs for what you need early on, you've got a lot of wasted opportunity.
True, absolutely. I found that if I do not get the breakthroughs I like, I immediately cut on Breakthrough hunting and rush to my Magnetic Weaponry instead. Having an extra scientist (from your laboratory) makes the abhorrent 28 days a much more manageable 14 on Commander and does similarly well on Legend.
But I think it's absolutely fair to say that this opening strategy is very risky compared to more classic approaches.
You pronounce laboratory like Dexter. :p
That is unintentional but definitely kind of cool :D
DEEDEE! Get out of my lah-bor-a-toreee
I have a Jubilee pig I named Dexter. Thanks for the video GREAT JOB!
Glad you liked it :D
@@QuickSaveTV In fact it is the BRITISH way to pronounce it. What we in Central Europe are used to is mainly the American pronounciation. It proves again that most of us actually speak a tangled mix of American and English
Im playing through WOTC for the first time atm. Im following suggestions in this and other videos. I built a lab as my 2nd building after GT. Im getting a lot of breakthroughs and inspirations just as described in this video. Im not sure if the inspirations are related to the lab or im just lucky, but i get them so often its actually getting a little annoying as im not able to reaearch the normal tech i want to :)
Which is why I never went from this & go for what I want
Just saw this video 3 years since you posted, honestly incredible and helpful video. Good shit, man.
Played at .75 speed. Damn this dude talks fast. Good content though.
I sound drunk at .75 that's kinda nice. Try at .50 that's me after 10 beers.
Thank you so much for watching regardless :D
I normally listen at 2x... That is definitely too fast here. :) Good vid though.
Thanks! I'll take a trophy where I can :D
That’s cocaine for you ;)
i am okay at 2x
Would've given a thumbs up if you could talk a little more quickly.
I swear to god, I even slowed down intentionally. Watch at 0.50 speed and laugh with me.
QuickSaveTV Lol. I've got XCOM 2 but haven't gotten WOTC yet. You think it's worth the nearly $50?
It's a good question, depends on whether or not you can afford it. It is definitely a great Expansion pack, it innovates and improves on virtually every facet of original XCOM2. It is definitely hella expensive for a DLC though.
I think the XCOM2 was much more expensive to make than XCOM: Enemy Unknown and they are trying to make up for it with the post-launch content, but I may be wrong.
I'm going to try it out, I didn't realize they improved the lab like that. thanks for posting
Have fun!
Yo what were the results?
My first 3 buildings are …. GTS, Resistance Ring, and Laboratory in that order. The new lab is pretty amazing as you stated, and well worth the cost in the long run so build it early to get the full benefit of it and make sure you staff it and upgrade it asap.
What about advanced warfare and proving grounds?
@@victuz With WOTC, AWC is gone, but I place a proving ground and infirmary as my 4th and 5th most play thrus I do!
Well technically 5th and 6th since you'll need to build a power relay or get lucky with the resistance orders or rumors on the map that give Avenger power.
And for the training center, I build it late but only to make sure I have enough points to buy the extra talents for my ranked up soldiers!
I'm playing through one right now and might have to go for it, I struggle on Legend so much I overlooked it because I wouldn't have the alloys to take advantage of it, but I didn't even think with that extra time I can hit up those good breakthroughs and not lose TOO much time.
I will say this guide still has a faulty premise because no matter what even if you get the +1 to tier one lucky build you're not going to do better than squad size 1 upgrade coming as fast as you can, or quick resistance ring (second build) and abusing promotion missions with your second engineer to rush to squad size two. Even an assault on a mission is a +3-4 but with flanks and high ground ect the +1 squad size should be netting you more bang in your missions buck than a +1 to all tier one or at least as much... and it's a guarantee shot so to speak instead of the random +1 to tier 1 breakthrough chance.
But if sounds like Labatory 3rd building is a perfect spot for it that I never considered!
You think starting Lab before GTS is worth it? With the new Tiredness system it seems important to fill out one or two extra squads of soldiers to handle missions while your A Team is recuperating, and I find that on Legend I can't really afford to bring rookies on most missions to get them their first promotion, so the GTS is essential for training them into squaddies. It also seems like there's limited benefit to getting research finished substantially before you can afford to buy the thing you researched.
Good points, both of them. It really depends on the tempo you manage to set on your playthrough, because yes, as you've mentioned not having money to purchase new gear will make research worthless, while not having the ability to fight effectively will make you struggle really bad on Legend difficulty. If you expect to struggle, just delay your Laboratory for a bit later. Let's say a 3rd building or even 4th or 5th. I, personally, can manage to build Lab first when I do try to play on Legend, but honestly, I struggle. Not so much due to having Lab first, but for making mistakes that end up costing me.
If you can manage your supplies and intel effectively (basically try to hoard a whole bunch of supplies) you can easily get Magnetic weaponry on Legend very quickly which will make your life easier in midgame, and allow you to reach it quicker, but if you cannot survive the early game it may not matter at all.
By the time you get to sergent (which you need to expand squad to 5) GTS 1st is a waste of time . This guy gets it. I always go lab 1st now after I tried it 1 time its amazing. Ya some are right you dont always have the cash or mats to build stuff ....but at least I can build it and I almost never have a problem buying what im researching cause its called saving for a rainy day. Later guys!
you can build resistance ring and get rookies promoted by sending them on covert ops with additional benefit of whatever reward you get. Rookies always get promoted after finishing their firs covert op, and since most covert ops are around 10 days long anyway and you can send two or sometimes three soldiers at once it`s actually more efficient.
Resistance ring is one of the buildings I get in my first 3 100% of the time, regardless of when (or if I ever) get the lab. Also, it's not typically 10 days long, unless you count it without an engineer staffed. On Commander and below it's about 4-10 days, mostly 4-8 days long missions, on Legend it's double of that, all with engineer staffed.
Also, I agree that you can promote your Rookies easily this way, but you do not get them of specific class and it takes them away for a while. Also, it is typically difficult to get a whole bunch of them to the high level because after Squaddie the leveling through Covert Ops slows down dramatically.
@@erictred4529 On legend then yeah i think lab first is a good thing. I havent done that yet but i have seen several things indicating that it may be a good ide. But the reson i think most ppl dont like it is if u dont play on legend then clearing areas, building and researching is nearly 50% shorter then what the time is on legend. Becouse u can build and research most stuff mutch faster. Below legend u unlock alot of stuff mutch faster and so u get the feeling that u cant build all the things u want and speeding it up even more just add to the problem. With the increased time on everything your supplys have a chans to stack up to the point when u actully need it.
I kind figured this out on my own, but I wish I would have come across this video sooner, is my opinion the best video I’ve come across on the matter.🎉🎉🎉
I am trying a lab build (second to GTS) on a commander iron-man play through. I previously ignored the lab and followed the more traditional "anti-lab" advice. What ended up happening in the late game is that I was too far behind the aliens in terms of technology. I was always playing catch up and losing my most experienced soldiers. When I eventually did get power armor and plasma weapons, I only had rookies to put it on. The results were still really bad. I think the lab route is often overlooked but I can see the benefit in rushing research and getting that edge in the arms race earlier.
I like lab first then resistance ring and gts 3rd, you don't have the rank or money for gts upgrades anyway.
The lab, ironically, can slow your critical research however. The breakthroughs are too good to ignore, mostly.
I love your accent. The content was great too.
Thanks Vlad
thank you slavoj zizek i will try lab start
Honestly i went when i get to decide because in the last 2 campaings our of 3 i did, i went in this order (from left to right depending on what slot i had) Gerilla Tactic (for had acess to squad upgrade and train them to what i want) > Ring facility in the middle > Training facility, then in the 2nd row Power Relay/resistance coms > Workshop > Proving ground/infirmary. Its in the 3rd row that if i had a powercoil , i instead bulid the power relay instead since it gives you 10 power and increase even more with engies (bonus if is below the workshop). Then there is were i put the laboratory or anything else. Need to said, most of this was because i got lucky and got things like the resistance order to increase excavations speed by 25% and 2 instant dig breakthrogh when i was reaching where the power coil was, making it perfect for put the Power Relay there.
In my last campaing, Laboratory was relegated to one of the lowest part. BUT i think on my 4th i will try to buld Laboratory at least at the 3rd thing instead of Training Facility.
Great video , nice to see your channel coming back Mike
Hopefully for longer than a week this time :D I'm glad you like it!
I do this on my actually Commander run. It's a game Change. Also, you can combine a laboratory breakT plus a operation breakT, suck like +1assault rifle bônus dmg, and a +1 beam wep dmg. Long story short: is vialible and a a plus 3 dmg rifles is OP
Oh yeah, the situation you are describing is essentially game won, haha.
Glad to see your alive Mike.
Just hibernating for extended periods of time :D
Thinking of streaming anytime soon?
Imma see if I can do that
@@QuickSaveTV Stop hibernating dog
Thank you Champ! I like listening to your 'Speedy' talk! Tapcat made me sleepy. You fire me up!!! Xcom2 is the hardest game ever so make more vids! love your work!
Duno why but i have always built the lab 1st, BUT need to control it right as breakthrough's can be non stop and if you take em all the time you may actually end up worse off. Since i got the game i always built it 1st thought others did to till i saw this.
Breakthroughs do happen in convert ops too quite often so in a way the ring is also great to rush or next at least
Yes, 100% agree. For me, I try to build both OR if I go a more conservative approach I skip laboratory and definitely build the Resistance Ring in first 3 facilities.
especially since you can also promote rookies in there in batches of 2 or 3
Covert ring # 1
Lab # 2
thatvis thr best approach for Impossible difficulty
Neato! Thanks for the heads-up. Thanks to Long War 2 I already grew fond of the Laboratories, but seeing how there are 12 slots and 13 (I think?) buildings with WoTC that can be constructed, the Lab (again) got the short stick in my head. I think I'll revalue my priorities for my next campain seeing the added benefits from the expansion.
12 slots, but 12 buildings, as far as I know. Just actually had to count them the other day, haha.
Definitely, do not diss the lab, this facility is dope. I actually am playing the game again and this time, against myself, went ahead and ignored the lab in my first three buildings. REALLY slows down the acquisition of breakthroughs and inspirations. I mean so much so that I actually feel the pain of how slow my research is going.
Best of luck and thank you for watching!
Absolutely! You learn something new every day. And this was a very nice tidbit for the puzzle that is XCom.
You too :)
i got a spark breakthrough which decreased the amount of time to make one by 10%, that's amazing, was hoping for 15%, but still pretty good
Yeah it goes from zero to hero in a dramatic fashion!
Got +1 to all handguns and +1 to standard guns. Made first 10 to 15 missions easy.
You make a good point.
Try it for yourself, it can be really effective.
I love your voice so much I sound like a Neanderthal in comparison. Great idea on pushing the laboratory too.
hah, vey interesting! I'll try this in my next legendary playthrough. I always wondered if you could get ahead of the aliens if you build labs and rushed for research breakthroughs.
Can you or anyone in the comments tell me if it is actually possible to have more advanced weapons and armor using this method before the next tier of aliens start to appear? It is quite common to end up with ballistic weapons + ballistinc aromor vs. vipers, mutons and bots with grenade launchers. Can you actually turn this around and face advent soldiers + sectoids when you are already packing plate armor and magnetic rifles?
So far the game felt like it was catching up to everything that I did. As soon as I had mag rifles, mutons and bots started to appear on the next mission. It felt pretty scripted.
Yes and no. No in the sense of you won't get the missions or have the alloys to buy at the black market to get ahead of them that fast.
However, tier 1 assualt rifle is 3-5, tier 2 is 5-7.
If you get one breakthrough for one weapon for assualts you kind of have an inbetween one. If you get one breakthrough through Labatory and one breakthrough for a different weapon through covert ops, you can prioritize training just those two classes early game and again you won't have the jump on them but you'll at least be in between the two and early game you need all the help you can get.
I'd still say though, the best is rushing promotions through covert ops for one guy to get him to captain as fast as you can to get squad size two. The biggest damage upgrade you can get is adding to your squad as opposed to +1 of any specific weapon. I could see the argument for +1 of an entire tier of weaponry being at least as powerful as that. But as you said even the stronger aliens appear in the game super fast, so even in his example of getting the Reaper +1 killing advent troopers... by like the second or third month or whatever you're facing MECs and such and suddenly the equation really hasn't changed that much for a given encounter. You still need flanks for crits, most likely by destroying cover with grenades, and guaranteed kills with up close shotgun rangers.
1 soldier playthrough lab saved my butt it really is the secret sauce ;)
also, inspirations for construction facility is amazing.
I cannot agree more :-)
Although I wouldn't say that the laboratory IS the first thing I want to build in a campaign, BUT it is surely on the first three buildings list!
Habitually, I do GTS first, then Covert Ops, then Laboratory (so third building)
Sure, makes sense!
This is my order. Fatigue makes gts to important. And squad size 1 ASAP. Then RR. 3 ops per month very important. Then lab. Then power. Then I get torn and it depends on your position
Hi really enjoyed this vid i hope you give some tips on forming a proper squad on various situation like when to bring a skirmisher/templar/reaper/psi soldier with the other basic characters thanks and good luck
Thanks a ton, glad you enjoyed it. That sounds like a good idea, let me write it down and see what I can do.
If you watch this six years later, don't do this on Legend. Unless you want an extra challenge then go ahead. The strategy is sub optimal compared to the GTS-Ring-Proving Grounds-Infirmary route. Squad size is the most powerful upgrade you can get early on and it lasts throughout the game unlike +1 conventional weapons. Ring is essential because mission rewards include promotions which will allow you to get to max squad size in the first two months. Also unlocking the faction hero's and the mission options is crucial to get as many avatar reduction missions as you can to keep the doom clock under control. The Proving grounds provide bluescreen rounds which add 5 damage against robotic enemies and bypasses energy shields. That alone is worth more than any upgrade and on top of that you get alien hunter gear from the DLC, emp bomb, plasma grenades, status effect rounds that also give +1 damage, a spark if you are weird and like using those and the skulljack. If your campaign goes exceedingly well and you find that you are finishing most of your missions flawless you could maybe build a lab instead of the infirmary as your fourth building. But if you get a sabotage that puts the fear of chosen into four or five of your troops and you don't have infirmary you're kinda screwed.
TLDR:
GTS - squad size upgrade. Best upgrade in the game. More soldiers = more actions, more damage, more utility, more angles to flank the enemy. Weapon upgrade = only more damage. It's not even close.
Ring - promotions, avatar reduction missions, breakthroughs that don't delay your research, resistance order missions, stronghold missions that increase the number of resistance orders you can have active. A sneaky bonus is ring missions where you get ambushed. They are very scripted and can be done flawless every time which makes them an additional source of XP early on. You do have to be careful what soldiers to send on these missions though, the reinforcement pod of two troopers and a captain can be tricky. A ranger and a templar with parry will do just fine, use that.
Proving Grounds - bluescreen. There's other things too, they're very good but bluescreen alone makes Proving Grounds invaluable.
Infirmary- on Legend you can get a soldier being taken out of commission for up to 60 days. If you are a god among men and you flawless most missions (in other words you save scum) you may not need it as much but it's still nice to have for those random negative traits the Chosen like to send your way via sabotage. If you play Ironman - get it. You will need it, badly.
P.S. If you play on Legend you will not have any issues with resources. Everything takes so long to research, excavate and build that by the time you have the option to build/upgrade you always have the cash and materials for it.
I see your point regarding those Inspired research goals. My concern is even if you do research Tier2 weapons faster, you might not have enough supplies to actually build them? Still you've got me intrigued, perhaps for my next game my 1st level build order will be GTS, Resistance Ring, Lab.
You will absolutely have to use black market and deviate from your normal priorities to get the Supplies needed to finance your new technology. Because of the nature of this strategy, that is pretty much a necessity.
With the setup you've proposed it is unlikely that you will run out of Supplies, as you're delaying the Laboratory to the 3rd item, usually, you'd "starve" if you rush it first, but even then you can adjust and use the Black Market to raise funds.
Now that I think about it, I can delay the Resistance Ring to 3rd item. In my current game I used Covert Ops to level up my rookies, but their promotions are random. Better to use the GTS to get rookies up to classes I actually need. So GTS > Lab > RR. Captured Mox will just have to wait :P
Haha, fair point! Experiment and you will find the way that suits you best!
I had to start a new game to try this, my curiosity could not be denied. Turns out you don't need a Resistance Ring to run the covert op to rescue Mox. Then you need the RR to run more c/o's. By the time I've built the RR as 3rd building, I should have all squaddies, no more random promotions.
Sweet! I don't play the game with Lost and Abandoned enabled though so rescuing Mox is not a point of consideration for me, I do build Resistance Ring simply to get "free" stuff.
Early lab strategy really really need some luck. If breakthrough or inspired researches are good, like early magnetic weaponry or +1 damage, that game will be succesful. But if the breakthrough or inspired researches are not that great, than that game will be doomed. I'm playing commander ironman, and had 1 successful early lab, and 2 failed early lab. In addition, this strategy need some luck with engineer numbers.
The most serious problem is, proving ground or infirmary will be delayed because of the lab. That causes lots of troubles
Fair points!
I personally found no issue with delaying some of my other buildings, as I only really want to get GTS (Squad upgrades asap) and Shadow Ring (for Covert Ops and additional chance to fish for early engineers and scientists), so a laboratory feels a natural fit.
Moreover, I tried the same approach on Legend difficulty and I can see it having the potential, however I still struggle with the difficulty somewhat. But on Commander Ironman, I have never been pushed to such a situation where my breakthroughs doomed me. Even when I got no breakthroughs at all (which was mostly frustrating, but not lethal to my efforts).
I obtained a breakthrough for +1 on all conventional weapons and +1 for shotguns:)))).. Omg! So big difference
You just won the game. Make sure not to squander it!
You're amazing. Love this video, just started playing and I think I need to start over since I don't know what is happening like 90% of the time =D
No kiddin? Seriously I wound up the same, everything built, but not enough to support projects. Due to the lack of supplies and what not?
You can always sell some of your stuff on Black Market, even the stuff you potentially need.
If you play the market well and can risk selling it to get other stuff right now you will have just enough for your other projects!
i rushed the psi lab on my chosen play threw and got a guy cooking in there soon as possible. the issues im having is im not getting as many engineer's this run. but im a time milker i want to be able to beat the dlc monsters with 0 damage on each run so far im 2 for 2 now im hoping i can offence up enough to kill that last one without a problem. every mission i go on im taking freeze and mimics just to hold off the escape. im having trouble making room for labs ill have to try to force it in defence guns probably will have to go
Just started playing this game and discovered this channel... now I am more excited about this channel then the game. Thanks alot for all the awesome content
Thx a lot for these 👍
I genuinely enjoy your accent :)
Great advice and very helpful thanx man !
great insight, will definitely try it out!
Sweet, glad I could help!
muchas gracias amigo!!!!!!!!!! me suscribo aunque no hable mucho ingles te agradezco mucho, a la fecha es el tip mas util para este grandioso juego
Thank you! Happy to help!
Ive finished ironman commander without lab. The time spent on breakthroughs is pointless when you can just use that time to rush the next tech. And getting damage upgrades for classes of weapons that wont even be used late game is a waste of time strategically. Like i said, ive ever the hardest difficulty without any of those bonus upgrades so it could just be that you need to go back and look how your approaching the battlefield tatically. On a side note. You can get breakthroughs through covert ops which maybe 1 or 2 of them are decent. But i always priortize soilder promotions to get early majors.
Science rules! Good video.
at 5:05, you go into the Armory List which shows alot more stats like Will, Aim etc. What mod does that for WotC ?
USE SKULLJACK EARLY!!!
DO NOT FUCK AROUND!!!
Have fun my friends.
What Mod are you using to show the breakdown of skills in the barracks overview menu?
Like Movement, Hacking, Aim etc...
I'm sorry it's been 5 years. I can't recall.
@@QuickSaveTV no worries :) don't ask don't get as they say :) but 5 years is a long time. Hope XCOM 3 eventually comes before we are all old lol 😂
@@AnimePigeon I can't wait. It's supposed to be similar to Apocalypse, hopefully we get the factions and interactions with them, as Apocalypse came before my time
on legend ironman the second to bottom floor takes 90 days
I'm going to try this!
Na I had gambling, this is a gamble, if it's not a sure thing, I'm good. Guess I'll just do GT & Magnetic weapons research
Thanks 2024
Instructions unlcear. My brain got hung up at "welcome to QuickSave TV". :-)
But hands down: this strategy didn't work out for me. I used the scientist-rush in die original 199x X-Com Enemy Unknown (100 scientists are ususally more then enough, even in Open X-Com).
But i never managed to facilitate a similiar strategy in the newer X-Com games.
you dam right bro.
I'm from the moon. It's mean to exclude me from your greeting
Tough luck mate. You should really move to earth, we have pizza.
@@QuickSaveTV what is Pizza?
Havent build one this far. Just keep the scientist flows in if you have time to do it. They decrease time needed to be fully research. Heck, didnt take long enough to do t3 research
It's not the same for several reasons I've mentioned. It's about the speed, the frequency of Breakthroughs and Inspirations. I'm not saying you MUST build it, you obviously do not, all I'm saying is it is an interesting, powerful and viable alternative to the classic openings.
Can u list the mods you used for wotc.
I thought I had playback on 1.5... nope still on 1 lol 😂
English with hard 'r' is the best accent
I don't care man, I don't play XCOM. I will just like the video watch it till the end. Your voice is noice
Thanks brother, appreciate it!
Adderall's a hell of a drug
Žižek, you playing game snow?
You should try your hand at rapping, I'll bet you could spit some crazy fast bars.
My Laboratory takes 20 days to complete :(
Loved this video lol
Whent after what the game recomended and no it was not good far from it :O.gona try this on my re try :)
Increased damage on conventional weapons is not that great considering you're trying to get out of tier 1 as quickly as possible.
Fair point, but if you get it early enough, as I did, you would reconsider your stance. If you get it very early on, you suddenly no longer have to rush to T2, you can instead adopt a more weighted approach and reconsider your options. Obviously it is irrelevant if you get it too late, but I honestly have never got this breakthrough after I've researched my tier 2 (and I've played a LOT of wotc, most of it with laboratory as one of my first 3 facilities).
But there is no need for t2 you can just skip to t3
Honestly, I have never tried that. Never actually thought about it, clever ploy.
If let's say you have a Conventional Weapons breakthrough as well as a bunch of scientists (with laboratory or without), you could hypothetically rush the T2 weaponry research, then T2 Snipers/Heavy and then march straight to Elerium and subsequent research. Honestly, this is quite greedy even for me, but sounds interesting to say the least.
You sounds like Slavoj Zizek 😂
Count dra kuuuuu lahhhhh...😂😂😂
hell yeah boyo
Bing bong bing bing bing bong
Hmmm... Anyone know if you can get breakthroughs from instantly completed autopsies?
I don't think you can, I have never did and most of those times I had a laboratory build. It's just anecdotal but it never happened not once.
I doubt it as well. I've seen breakthroughs (or inspirations) at the same time as instant autopsies a bunch of times. Doing the instant autopsy first doesn't cancel the breakthrough, so it really is instant -- doing anything else (including starting a different research project, and immediately trying to change it) will remove the breakthrough opportunity. So, I don't think instant autopsies count the same way in refreshing the research choices (and therefore likely couldn't trigger a breakthrough/inspiration).
To be fair I never tried keeping them for later, maybe then something would change.
what mod you are using at 5:06
Detailed Soldier List.
Damn you talk so fast but good video bro 🙌
Dracula :)
Yes, but not. I play it on Legendari, saving-loading as many times as a need. Lab first makes you extremely weak at the very beging, cos you will figth with only four soldiers. That's simply not enought. The chances of survival decreases greatly with lab first. Imagine the risk playing on Iroman. I usually build lab in third place, after Tactis and Ring. Also early lab can make your normal science grow swoly. Yes, it does. Lab makes a low improvement in science's speed. What it does is increase the chance of special techs or inspired techs. That special techs requires time (10 days each, if my memori don't fail). There are more than 15 special techs, in grose numbers, near to half year of investigation. You could skip some techs, but lose the chance of researching, so lab will not usefull than it could. ¿When in the hell you will have plasma guns and predator armors?. Lately, for sure.
If you'r looking for the perfect team, with all upgrades and good stuff, well, you'll need lab first. But you'll pay a high price for that. Meaby one that you can't afford.
Nice vid, anyways. Thanks for sharing.
problem with xcom ew is starting excom ew, its just not worth it
So is this only in Wotc?
Yeah Lab ain't worth barely getting, let alone rushing to in the regular game.
Jesus Christ, you're alive?
Like Mr. House in Fallout: New Vegas.
Well shit, I missed your stream
Hopefully not going to be the last so don't worry.
only people not know this be fools who rush the game tell you this at the to research
A risky strategy, all the breakthroughs are by RNG, I followed your strategy, didn't see any good breakthorughs, only all the crap breakthroughs such as cheaper relays building costs, faster digging speed and the early heavy cost really made all my development lagging behind, i tried this several times, really bad
Your quality has not dropped at all after your absence. I'm not sure whether that's impressive, or if that means you actually just never try.
That would be quite an achievement
QuickSaveTV fair enough, I guess that in itself is impressive
Quality of information shouldn't drop. I didn't suffer a brain damage. If anything, I hope I can eliminate even more inaccuracies in whatever I try to explain. One thing that I honestly have to work on is to learn to edit my shit better. It's just really a massive chore for me, not something I'm passionate about, but it needs to be at least on the level.
This one was with no edits, done in one take. The classic research for days, do a video in about 1 hour.
Jesus slow down on the energy drinks
Slow down please
All I heard was kilts and haggis
lol
I like you
Do you like me too?
Check (yes or no)
can you talk faster please?
slow down dude, it's a video not a race.. Do you need to pay for each minute uploaded? Take it a bit slower so everyone can follow you. I do not have problems following you but not everyone (especially non english speaking people) can follow you.
I expect you make these videos because you like to learn new things to people, keeping them informed. Well, taking time to explain things and take is slow will let you reach more people ;)
Alright brother, I'll try to figure it out.
your accent is too strong for how fast you talk
Dude, calm down
Talk slower
difficult to understand what he says. i think he is speaking English?
Slow down u already got an accent plus talking fast only word I here is laboratory
Grammar please.