4.0 C++ GPA proves CS degrees are worthless | Call In 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ม.ค. 2025
- A caller with a Masters in Optimized C++ from DePaul called into my TH-cam livestream. What happened next is beyond words.
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I don't understand the comments saying CJ is being mean here. This guy has a 4.0 GPA in C++ optimization and is struggling to answer basic questions on how the language works. In fairness, this guy is on a livestream being asked questions which would be stressful but if he wants to apply for a job in a very competitive industry, especially in a role that focuses on c++, and he cannot answer with confidence 90% of the questions being asked here, how does he expect to get a job?
There is a difference between knowing how the language works and actually doing a job of a software engineer, but if you did a course on specifically on C++ and cannot answer easily googlable questions then how do you expect to get a top job at a Quant fund against 1000s of extremely well qualified candidates?
I was extremely patient with the candidate and asked him questions that are (sometimes) even beneath those that would be asked to a junior developer. Every time I was laughing he was laughing with me. Many commenters are either Doomers or Copers that think doing Leetcode for 2 weeks using ChatGPT will get them a cushy job after graduation without working hard and trying to learn anything (even the bare basics) in-depth. If they’re hating it just shows that they’re waking up to reality and that they should either start grinding now or maybe reconsider their career decisions.
I helped the candidate wake up to the reality that his 4.0 on Optimized C++ (21:26) will not carry him to his desired goal without putting in the work to build the fundamentals while suggesting resources and topics he should pursue. Remember, he called into my show asking for my advice. The first thing he lead with is “I have a Masters in Optimized C++ and I can’t code”, I’m not embellishing anything. The conversation ended with the candidate stating it was a healthy and productive conversation (30:42).
@@CodingJesus So for me there are two things your doing that come off pretty poorly to me. Firstly this guy clearly isn't good with English, there were a few times like 6:58 where your kind of attacking him for that, sure his explanation is long winded and confusing but the way you aproach it "you said a bunch of words I don't really know what you said" isn't particularly constructive. The zoom in on chat mocking him saying "basically" isn't a good look either, and you keep laughing at him for saying "yeah" or "not really." Then there are times when hes right your telling him hes wrong because you want an answer and instead of explaining to him why your answer is better you just call him wrong 19:20 . Then there's the time you ask him if hes "heard of what tcp is" 23:10 to which he answers yes and then you ask him to explain it and he says no, I feel like its worth noting you didnt ask him if he could explain it initially you asked him if he had heard of it. But instead of recognizing the linguistic confusion your words have created you laugh at him at which point he tries to explain it by saying "transfer..." but you keep laughing and so he akwardly joins in.
Second Throughout he is regularly broadcasting uncertainty and confusion, you repeatedly are laughing at him and giving him a hard time for being uncertain. Yet ironically hes answering something like 70% of your questions, hes not being eloquent about it but if you stop and think hes outright correct for a decent number of things and just meandering for others. A much more constructive way to have the conversation would be to boost his confidence in what he knows, and focus on what he doesn't. It doesn't really feel to me like there's any points where you try to sit and assess what hes actually worked on and talk about previous projects beyond just asking him random trivia.
I also somewhat suspect this guy is mostly writing c code or cpp without any libraries, as he seems to know the general setup of the language but lacks specifics on fancier features. this is a pretty common thing schools do where assignments give you specific problems to solve without libraries so you spend a lot of time focusing on the concepts your learning about and very little on the language, this leads to initially quite bad language proficiency compared to someone who is regularly using the full feature set of the language, but a greater understanding of concepts, behind a lot of more complex things. Its sad because he up and says he doesn't know the syntax and then you grill him on syntax without asking about what he actually does know.
Overall its kind of concerning to me how much you seem to be focusing on the joy your getting out of laughing at him and focusing on his mistakes then acknowledging when he is right or understanding his strengths.
Also this guy just isnt an "optimized cpp" masters student, thats not a thing at depaul there is a class called optimized cpp and I think you mistook the name of the class for the name of his degree and then proceed to start the video by attacking him for it. Given a course is supposed to be about 60 hours and this one covers stuff like compiler optimizations too its unsuprising hes not a master at cpp.
@@CodingJesusYour arrogance is really showing here by just assuming the people criticizing you aren't in the same field as you or are less experienced. Good luck if you ever try to interview with us.
It can simultaneously be true that the person he's talking to is a bad candidate AND that the video is also showing that Tomer aka CodingJesus is either a terrible interviewer, a junior dev trying to sell himself as something more or at worst a scam artist who doesn't even really work as a SWE.
It's very typical for these kind of youtubers to either having never worked in tech or having done an internship or a few months at a company at most. Note how he never tells any stories about his actual work, it's always vague and general. He's "writing code", "solving tickets", talking about what quants/quant devs do "in general." He has no real experience to talk about, either because he's still too new at this himself or because he's not even employed. His career is selling worries to people and offering them wrong or superficial solutions.
The only thing this proves is that the person being interviewed doesn't remember anything from his CS classes.
100%
or attended a bad program. none of this sht would fly in good schools …
He also proved that you don't need to actually learn to get a CS degree
@@lucascarneiro3288 Incorrect. Maybe where you live, but in good schools, this isn't going to fly.
The caller has no skill in C++, but is aware of his situation and it's good that he is trying to seek solution, and with a mindset to improve he can turn things around.
holy shit. this is a reality check for that guy and pretty much everyone watching
>CS graduate
>Doesn't know what the heap or the stack is (yet had a 4.0 in C++ class)
>go to a shit college
>dont learn shit
>wow college is le bad guys it's a scam
i wonder if all screams like "cs degree worthless" are coming from such guys? I even heard of CS degrees without any math courses. Some say CS doesnt teach programming, but algorithms, data structures, foundations like compilers, translation etc are all part of CS yet they don't know it
yep that’s exactly what it is. i don’t see ANYONE coming out of better schools doing this
A high gpa at a good uni implies the student actually knows their shit. There is no way this would fly at a top 20 uni. At a no name uni, a high gpa means nothing.
Agreed. I studied at Michigan State University and graduated with a 4.0 in Statistics and Actuarial Science. I graduated knowing nothing for my career (I work as an actuary). Luckily, I realized this and picked up my textbooks and some additional ones, and began spending time studying earnestly. I believe my degree laid a foundation to be able to learn on my own, but my god I spent so much time and money just to “learn how to learn”. The degree is not worth it these days.
@@paulbunyan-ek2ii Aren't you expected to learn the actuarial topics and fields from the relevant actuarial society tracks? Was this a Bachelor's degree? If so I definitely understand feeling far behind, the mathematical and statistical foundation required is usually a bachelor+master. Here the actuarial science degrees (Masters in statistics with a specialization in Finance Theory and Insurance Mathematics) is usually a heavily theoretical statistics/mathematics bachelor degree with a masters degree consisting of 3/12 finance theory/insurance mathematics topics, 4/12 statistics/probability, 3/12 master's thesis and 2/12 elective master level courses.
DePaul University is not a no name college.
@@jeezyweezyskeezy It is a no name college. Also I don't mean to say that just because someone didn't go to a certain university, they are shitty programmers. I just mean the degree to which you can get away with poor skills increases with university ranking.
From a masters in C++ optimization and does not know what the heap is -- is shocking. Feel bad for this guy. This used to be me.
get a master and forget the introduction :)
lol my dude is on his Kevin Samuels arc
Fr 😂😂😂
😭
Bro took complete 30 min mock interview 💀
I have a cs degree too, I had to take irrelevant classes like physics, everything, but coding. I asked the university why so many other classes and they told me it was to weed people out. I still can"t code properly. Professional code and school code are totally different
A lot of western unis are just diploma mills at this point.
masters degrees are the worst culprits of this. they are money printers for schools and unis with low acceptances rates for undergrad and grad school use their pedigree to charge a lot and also accept a lot of students
1:28 that smirk...thats the smirk of a self taught iron hardened developer about to cook the crap out of a clueless masters student.
On one hand, the CS Masters student isn’t studying C++ related courses like OS or Networking at the Masters level. It sounds like he did a basic Comp. Architecture course in a Bachelor’s degree, and even then doesn’t fully remember the majority of the course. That’s because implementing malloc is in any Bachelor’s curriculum for Comp. Architecture. Using GPT to learn a hard skill like coding in C++ is completely dumb, but maybe that means the “oversaturated” market is just a weak one (you’re surrounded by loads of candidates but it doesn’t matter if they’re clueless. I’m not even sure why this person wants to be a C++ dev if they’re so out of touch with the C++ courses they had in college.
Honestly I've seen way too much of this from people with CS degrees. It's shocking to be honest.
It's also often the people with the least amount of knowledge that engage in the most gatekeeping. This has become increasingly clear to me of late
This is not to say everybody with CS degrees is this bad. There are loads of great developers with CS degrees and CS knowledge is obviously very helpful.
I've just seen an increase in these kind of cases lately. It has reached the point where I think a CS degree on a CV is less of a signal of basic competence than it once was.
This is the university experience in a nutshell, you can score a great GPA without knowing the basics. Why? Because universities grade you on how well you can regurgitate information. Well then why don't professors or lecturers change that? Because then majority of students would fail and the Dean would start asking questions why the fail rate is over 20%. Getting a 4.0 GPA is meaningless these days when universities are money printing mills.
Every response is an essay.
Which means he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
No offense here but the Indian accent just reminds me of how these students were more concerned with having an A than actually knowing the material. So much bsing here from the beginning.
That's a thing, I am an Indian software dev who recently did my MPhil in CS from Cambridge University, I was shocked that the cohort had 3 Indians including myself. Out of those one did his degree from the UK. The rest had work experience. I remember during my undergrad, I was the most knowledgeable person about programming and CS despite not having the top grade.
We are lucky to have coding jesus channel. Thank you.
The worth of degree really depends on the University one is from .
I think this was by far the most entertaining interview CJ ever did. I don't understand why some are criticizing CJ for highlighting the obvious: clearly, this interviewee already knew that he sucked at C++ and he just needed confirmation by CJ. I think the interviewee did the interview just for fun. It is pretty obvious that the interviewee scammed himself by cheating through his classes using ChatGPT. Instead of using ChatGPT to explain the topics that he did not understand, he simply let the AI do most of the heavy lifting regarding his assignments. As a result, the dude simply robbed himself of the learning process; to sum it up, he shot himself in the foot by just wanting a good grade instead of grinding through the basics. CJ just pointed this out, and I was kinda shocked that people do not even think that they need to know the fundamentals (and way more) to succeed in the SWE industry. I am shocked that students like this interviewee are basically useless without ChatGPT.
At least he's smart enough to know he needs help and seek out this mock interview. But that's the only credit I'm giving him.
Future H-1B here to take American job.
Coding Jesus strategy: Asks basic textbook questions to bad students. Then his theory is that degrees are useless.
Dude we know you read the book, can you prove that you actually have some experience as a quant, besides writing a booking app? You only have book knowledge, which tells me you are just a junior.
His questions - textbook or not - are all along the lines of fundamental applied cs concepts. Why is this a bad thing to ask junior devs?
I have similar feeling. The further in time I go with watching his essays the more I'm starting to believe he knows shit about the industry he is claming to work in or know anything about.
He's asking questions that could be asked in interviews, an aspiring quant dev should know the answers. He's working as a quant dev rn too, i think that's enough credibility lmao
He has never claimed to be a quant. He claims to be a quant dev which is much more swe than quant at many firms
Daaaang @codingjesus u can take that? mf just punk'd yo ahhh
bro used chatgpt through his entire course
this is absolutely insane what am I even watching
I don't get it when people say the person just forgot the knowledge. Its not okay for a person to forget what grass is because he's not holding a grass cutter. You would not want a doctor to hold a textbook just to identify a scalp during surgery.
The majority of Quant’s are Ivy-League grads tho let’s be real
Quant Jesus’s experience is more of an anamoly don’t be misled
Not necessarily because Ivy league grads are more skilled though tbh (though on average they frankly are).
Some quant firms have their head up their a** and will only interview people from top schools or top companies to inflate their own status.
I interned at {citadel, optiver, jump} but went to a meh school and you'd be surprised how many firms still didn't interview me despite having a 4.0 and interning at a p decent trading firm.
And some of these firms don't ask anything difficult. The hardest part is just getting the interview. And if you are from a good school, they straight up go easier on you. Its absurd honestly.
This is exactly me but with 2 years experience of JavaScript
23:11 is the moment you're all here for.
You're a very toxic person and the way you ask questions makes it apparent to anyone with actual experience that you're at best a beginner SWE with an overly inflated ego. Do not listen to this guy people. He's right that understanding fundamentals is important, but he thinks understanding fundamentals means being able to recite random things when put on the spot. It's really not.
Specific knowledge and being able to recite those things from memory is exactly what you do when you "game the system to get a good GPA." Being a good SWE is about being able to learn quickly, solve problems and communicate well. This is what you need to be able to demonstrate.
@@schattenskorpion exactly. I feel bad about desperate people who paid this pseudo-expert for advice.
Wdym recite random things? 😂
He is barely going deep with his questions, and our Indian fellow isn’t even able to answer those properly. For being a good SWE, the bare minimum is having this basic knowledge hammered down into your head so that you won’t have to look it up and can implement those basic concepts wherever necessary without having to be guided by someone else.
@@negrito360 Yeah it's a shame.
@@ameenali1837 That's not how any real SWE job works. You got half way there, what you should've said is "For being a good SWE, the bare minimum is having some basic knowledge and humility so that you know how to look things up and know when it's appropriate to go ask someone with more experience for guidance."
Just pay attention to how often this guy asks the same questions, gives the same technologies as examples or mentions TCP. He learned a small specific set of technologies and probably uses them in his entry to mid level role and uses this limited amount of knowledge to make others feel bad. A dev with experience has switched between technologies so many times there's no way he remembers specifics, he looks them up when necessary.
@@schattenskorpion no he just having fun dude dont be like that
I think the issue comes when you try to apply the framework of a Master’s Degree to fields that are super pragmatic, especially under capitalism. In applied areas like software engineering (and its many branches), production techniques change constantly, and some concepts don’t even need to stick to strict "industry standards" to make sense. The bigger problem, though, is how modern computer science has been redefined and stripped away from its original meaning. Academia seems to have been instrumentalized here and, in some cases, has lost its way. There’s a huge difference between getting a Master’s in something purely theoretical (like theoretical computer science, where the focus is on abstract ideas and not immediate applications) versus a Master’s in software engineering, which is all about following industry standards and aligning with production workflows. Software engineering is inherently tied to practicality, so trying to equate it with something fully theoretical feels so wrong, one needs to be in academia to align and fully understand the theoretical basis and foundations of everything that's presented within it, like programming languages, etc., one really needs to grasp the foundational concepts, that's what academia is for.
i completely agree
Under communism if you don't know these frameworks, your family disappears.
I respectfully disagree with your mode of thinking on this issue. Academia is responsible for teaching theoretical concepts that transfer to any job. It is the company's responsibility to train new grads on their specific implementations. Experience in these concepts and industry implementations come wth age and time in field. The reason software development salaries are so high is because there aren't many specializations and companies want 10 years of industry experience in a 22 year old body with no health conditions.
@@Lou-jf4rl @Lou-jf4rl I get what you're saying, but what I really meant is that some things in academia aren't strictly supposed to be 'transferred' to a job setting, some academic concepts don't necessarily need to be market-focused in order to be totally applicable.
When looking for a job, it's about selecting what's 'useful' and adapting to the ever-changing demands of the market.
Academia should focuse on create new concepts and innovate on theoretical and closed-practical fields
This is astonishing. How does he know he wants to work in C++ if he doesn't know the language?
Dunno, I thought it’s rude but now I think that it would be better to be called earlier
It’s not rude. It’s not nice, he is very direct. But in this business nice will leave you unemployed and unprepared. The comments are surprising to me. Why do engineers have such fragile egos?
We need more of these
I watch this whenever I feel imposter syndrome. Makes me feel better
Interesting you mentioned banning gpt for learning ; what do you recommend when it comes to learning something new without it ? It seems to be quite helpful for consolidating stuff you’ll spend awhile digging for
GPT is good for helping you with stuff you already understand, at least to the extent that you know where to search for resources to check its answers. If you dont know how to frame questions or verify responses, you cant expect to learn a big subject from scratch... Imo
The digging for information is part of the learning process. Figure out what you want to learn, pick literally any textbook that covers the topic and read it cover to cover, whilst implementing what you’ve learned. That will take about a month and put you ahead of 95% of the competition
@ I see. Personally do you use it at all , and if so how ?
@@mikestanley4501 Being persistent when it comes to finding and learning information is important. But needlessly digging for information is a waste of everyone's time. In a work environment if I spent all day look trying to understand what the developer of was thinking when writing some legacy code rather than just asking the guy because he still works at the company, odds are I just wasted my entire work day.
Reaching out to people rather than scouring stack overflow is just another resource for learning.
ChatGPT is the same way, its a resource to learn information and just like any result you get from stack overflow you have to vet the information and its probably not suitable to just drop into your code.
Even a number of coding text books are this way since technology changes and programing library get deprecated. You always have to vet information regardless of where it comes from.
GPT has helped me learn to read the assembly generated by my compiler better, and this was a great resource for my high performance computer architecture class. I wasn't focusing on learning to be a good assembly programmer but once I could read assembly I was able to see trends in what my compiler was struggling to optimize and then take back to my work environment and was able to re write code to get a 50% speed up in performance of a critical section of code.
Idk why ppl are acting like we were cavemen before GPT, there's stuff that we did before GPT, for every discipline, inclidung CS: read books, read documentation, practice. Practice failed? go back to read to figure out why it failed, try again. Rinse and repeat.
Hey CJ, do you have any advice for a computer science freshman who has only taken OOP C++? Where should I start or learn for networking / OS. I know a bit of web dev and have around 200 leetcode questions solved right now but confused where to go to better myself for industry
I have about 4 weeks to learn a ton of stuff over christmas break but stuck on what to focus on. I'm doing some embedded research next semester so I'm learning ROS right now but besides that -
1: Should I master C++?
2: Should I learn and get better at concepts that I'll be taught in the future (to get ahead)? (Networking, databases, OS)
3: Should I continue to grind leetcode and just focus on research
Master in Optimized C++ doesn't know how VECTORS work? ☹
I blame the education system on this one
You have at least 5 generations behind you that have all learned the exact combination of words in response to a question that will get you an A, and they're dead set on making every single student in the next 5 generations memorize the exact same combination to pass their exams
I was never this kind of a learner, someone who memorizes alien strings of words without understanding what they mean as a whole, so I was scared shitless for every graduation exam in my whole life because I can pretty much guarantee that I'd fail if I didn't write the exact combination of words to the questions that'll get me an A, even if it correctly answers the question.
I had to sacrifice my language skills because I had to learn my grammar and sentence formation around the writing style in my textbooks, just so I can form the sentence in the exact same way it was written in the textbooks while I was writing my tests
SIR, MA'AM?!
He will have a hard time on the job market. You can tell he doesn’t understand things on a conceptual level but only ever gives examples. And he also doesn’t acknowledge his responsibility to understand the things taught in class even if the professor’s explanations are incomplete/vague.
Take a shot every time he says like.
It's also apparent that the interviewee may have been either scammed or is a scammer. In either case it is not professionally ethical to post these.
More in the case of a scammer, the guy tried fooling the professor only to fool himself.
How to get onto this stream?
This guy used ChatGPT to pass exams 😅😅
I think the title worked
Yeah, as clickbait. To basically scam weak people. Bravo!!
Please tell resources to learn CPP from youtube
Mate you are already on the wrong track... Get yourself a good book, you can probably get them for $5 at a 2nd hand bookstore. C++ has been around for 30 years+ and the old books will be as good as new ones (except for newer libraries).
But before you actually commit to C++ maybe you should evaluate whether that is actually best - I've read many opinions that C# is a better option. My personal opinion if you are starting out then play with PHP first as its quite easy due to being scripted and has auto array sizing and type conversion etc. And very similar syntax style, so once you are competent with eg class structures you can move onto the compiled languages with hard typing & memory management. I don't claim to be super leet etc but its my 2c.
cpp nuts
what's the game
Its in the description, Exo One
This is a forced engineer from India. This is how it works here
he is nepali
DePaul University?....
i think it's depauw university
I wish I could have just a small fraction of the number of likes this guy gave out to CJ.
this is embarrassing. from both the guy and this youtuber
Fo real
How ?
stop being a cry baby , ur probably like the caller .
@@musashi542 wah
This guy is very weak, does not stand a chance. Rip. Next
do americans really go in debt for this?
BROOOOO, MASTERS IN OPTIMISED C++ dead crying lmfaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>>bashing head in wall and broke my laptop
I think it's just a Masters in CS but yeah MS in OPTIMIZED C++ slaps ngl.
DePaul Mogged this due btw.
Edit: Chat there's an update. Recd. a call from this dude and he got a Compiler Engineer role at NVIDIA.
@@interstellar1873 given none of these questions were about compilers I think he might do better then you expect.
Also I’m pretty sure he just took a class called optimized cs and cj took that and ran with it as his masters his school doesn’t offer a masters in optimized cpp
great scot were doomed because this guy knew nothing about anything
How can I privately chat to you like this?
Call into the next livestream call-in show.
It just won’t be very private 😂
@@CodingJesus ok ehehe
@@joecastagno8255 ahaha
the caller should quit
I started learning C++ two weeks ago, and I can answer almost everything that’s been asked. Meanwhile, this gentleman went to university to learn C++, and he still can't even figure out the syntax.
It’s extremely shocking to me. How is that even possible??
I'm not bragging, I'm just baffled!
it is because they use ChatGPT to do majority of the work. I am in a master's program at the moment for CS and it is insane how many students do this and some actually think they are learning just as this guy said; ".. learning with ChatGPT.. ".
From which resource you are learning can u please guide in depth as i want to switch from c to cpp can you please help
i am also not good at coding but this guy lacks communication skills (he could have explained all that in few words just being yo the point)
I really don't know why you thought uploading this was a good idea.
What’s wrong with it
whats wrong with it tho ? yall need to stop crying all the time .
This skips class no ways
I didn't take a CS class, I started reverse engineering and making Roblox games when I was ~13. I know all these things, from constexpr to thread_local, and IMO AI is going to make a lot of these new CS degrees BS. Aren't these guys supposed to learn basic assembly in CS? There's no way.
I didnt know you can get a masters in c++ optimizations
wtf bro...
Jeet
poo
Lmfao
You should not be posting these. It is highly unprofessional.
i probably learned more C++ than him in 2 months, by myself from youtube
You THINK that. Until you try to build something without a tutorial. Then you realize you're lost.