NA coming into worlds: "TL has the easiest group they have IG which they beat before and who even is ahq, they're gonna get first seed" NA after groups: "TL had a super hard group, expecting them to come out of the group is optimistic"
@@michaelgormley8599 You mean a couple casters (ie. mainly Kobe) flipped and said that TL isn't going to get out of groups after seeing the play-ins and DWG being drawn into D. At the group draw before the start of worlds everyone said TL were gonna make it out, probably even as a first seed
@@pixair I mean yeah, DW really made that group harder... If its literally any other team from playins drawn into that group I still think TL makes it out. As far as first seed goes that was mostly people still thinking about MSI where TL beat IG. Not super relevant anymore seeing as how long ago that was.
@@pixair Most people, casters included predicated their belief that it would be an easy group on the notion that DWG wouldn't be there AND that IG would not be in the same form as they were in as world champions; there were a lot of unanswered questions before the group was fully drawn, not only in terms of where DWG would go but also what form they would be in after looking pretty scattered and mediocre in play ins. Very early on professional analysts were nearly unanimously saying that TL would have a hard time getting out if DWG was drawn into the group and played at the level they played in the LCK.
ok, so, a lot's of people are saying that "TL was in a hard group"... ( 21:08 ) and I legit don't understand how that's supposed to excuse the TL performances this year. Sure they were in a hard group because they are at worlds, and worlds are hard in general. Like if you are saying group D was hard, considering that they hard LPL and LCK 3rd Seed, then Group A is hard with G2 GRIFFIN, and group B is semi-hard because of FPX, and Groups C is super hard because of SKT RNG (and FNC since they have beaten RNG). If you say that, then you are simply paraphrasing the fact that TL wasn't good enough to make it out of groups, which is the core of the problem you were trying to excuse with that statement This comments might seem stupid but my point was that only looking at the other team's performances in Group D to understand why TL couldn't make it out of groups is a very unhealthy mentality, and most people should look at what they did wrong instead of what the others did well.
Unfortunately, gaps are closing for LPL, LEC, and LCK. However, NA hasn't really improved and NA as a region isn't catching up to the other 3, which clearly showed at Worlds this year. If summer IG showed up, then TL would've had a better chance of getting out as a 2nd place in group D making IG the 3rd.
Not sure why you put FNC into brackets tho. They were still worlds finalists last year and have made semis multiple times. Historically they are more decorated than RNG. Group C was the group with three contenders. Also I dont get Phreaks point about FNC. FNC of LEC vs FNC of Day 7. This was the kind of performance they had during the whole summer split, which is why only G2 was able to stop them - and they really had to work for it
xelasneko it’s sad but it’s true, NA is the fourth best region in all thirteen regions around the world but the gap between NA and LCK, LpL and LEC now is big, before it was LCK dominated everyone and every other regions look like trash until last year it was LPL and LcK vs the whole world.
notice how they dont even mention that the na teams only picked up 5 wins this worlds and 4 of them came from 0-6 lms teams, with the only noteable game being from damwon. Fourth means very little when lpl sits at 11wins, lec at 13 and lck at 16. While na is at 5.
not that much NAs failure, but EU success, phreak is EU hater, NA never performed but it was ok since EU didnt either, but now NA is basically wildcard
Vegz lmao. That kind of attitude is why NA fans get disappointed. TL would probably end up 5 in EU. Don’t over evaluate NA teams. There aren’t any excuses for them losing. FNC has a harder group and got out
TL got a hard group, or better described as "Our best team ever produced in the whole of NA's history needed a group which had an LMS and a VCS team" cause let's face it, they could maybe only get out of a group with two teams from EU, CN or Korea if one of those teams was Splyce and that could still be up for debate, I'd give Splyce at least one win against TL so they maybe go 3-3 and it ends up being a tiebreaker. Complain about the draw all you want but when someone asks you about your opinion on Group B, remember that that is one of the few possible groups that Team Liquid could have made it to quarters in.
So basically needing and relying on luck to get out of groups means you're just not good enough. Just true, TL isn't good enough if they're 1st seed and a play ins team top their group. Had they gone to Quarters, they'll just be eliminated the same as Splyce.
@@azhidaal Than they should say it, because RNG vs FNC is also not 9:2, it's 10:4 cause in this same IEM worlds FNC won against RNG (wihtout Uzi), so Rekkles vs Uzi in FNC/RNG is 9:2
Please make amateur scene for NA or make more open tryouts for LCS teams for academy and LCS. Develop more amateur scene and not only making scouting grounds, make open tryouts or something like that not only for like top 5 players for each position.
@@fluffything7134 so true. I'm a LCK fan and I see so many LCK teams scouting many young talents and that's how GRF, DWG and AFS got their talents. By looking at NA, they just buy some LCK or EU players just for short term goal. LPL scouts many Korean players that has incredible career or just some talented young players. NA has way more money than Korea and their transferring market is just huge and I know they can do what LCK does so NA really should do something to get players. 1. Make an amateur scene 2. Much more open tryouts for LCS/Academy 3. Stop buying some mid or low tier players from the LCK 4. Actually kick players out who are old and useless so the young players can have chances. Watch CLG having Darshan and Huhi being useless and making them stuck in academy team. Lit Huhi got so bad that he transferred his position to support and we all know how bad an autofilled supports are. Some pro wouldn't even be able to hit masters/grandmaster without their super Riot accounts. Look at their w/r. They barely stay in low grandmaster with those 50% or lower wr.
Most of the NA talents are toxic and even the less toxic ones wono get in because other pro players won't let them in. LCS wants PR friendly players and current players don't want their place taken so no. There will never be any good new talent in NA unless they come to c9 because C9 is the only team that will allow a new talent to shine.
uncutvirgin the problem with investing in talent, there just isn't a lot of talent to find. solo queue top players are usually steamers or pro players and trying to implement them into a pro scene is not always as easy as it may seem. also not a lot of people in na invest in esports it's a very small scene in North America
In the past 6 years na has only made it to knock out stage 5 times cloud 9 accounts for 4 out of those 5 times. Let that sink in our worlds succes has been linked to c9 again and again
All these people comparing SPY vs SKT to MsF vs SKT. U guys do realize Faker isnt 1v5ing every game this worlds right? He has an actual team with a good Jg and consistent ADC. This isnt Blank Huni Bang. Its Clid Khan and Teddy. Have some brains.
If KT beats IG last year, good chance they win worlds. Broadly, yes, a bad year by Korea, but is it really fair to talk about their performance this way. (Also, no Griffin at worlds. We oughta talk about the region as such, not merely their representatives in a disadvantageous meta and a close series)
Then again, wouldn't a Soraka have been better? She not only can make the ult execute hard, but easily counter out the hook too. As Pyke i always find it harder to lane against a Soraka than any other Support.
@@bos7522 she's a woman and she's been outspoken about *healthy* feminism, it's literally the only reason why people hate her, because of how the community works
As far as the mvps go, I would probably put Nemesis on there. I think FNC would have failed to get out of groups without him. He was really consistent and had some great performances. Faker, Kobbe, Doinb and TheShy were others that sprung to mind for mvps of the group stage, as far as being 'the most valuable player for a team'. Without these players, I doubt any of them would have had the same impact without these players. Edit: I forgot about ShowMaker.
I get somewhat confused when people talk about FNC champ pool issues. Sure they've only played 1-2 champs in every role, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Teams can't pick away or ban GP, Lee Sin, Elise, Cassiopeia, Veigar, Twisted Fate, Xayah, Pyke, and Rakan, especially if they're forced onto red side and have to ban Pantheon/Qiyana
Faker asked who the "ex-toplaner" for RNG was before LangX. He definitely knows who the current RNG toplaner is. On one of Clid's interviews with Ashley Kang, Clid talked about what their plan was going against RNG and clearly SKT did some research on RNG.
@@cooledry I think you misunderstood my point, there is no way faker will be lazy nor I think he is, from my prospective faker DOESN'T CARE who or what team his gonna face with only very very little exception,cuz what he needs to focus on is what combination the enemy team might brought and how to compete with experience and coach group's advice,you can notice by a lot of his interview his stream and past tournament result, is not he doesn't care, is just only he doesn't have to.
@@nicetimmy Actually every T1 members look at other regions they do it every single day People know those guys some lesser than others but he just acts as if he doesnt care mostly because it's more effective to look at a team as a whole it help as Kkoma says not to grow complacent
TheShy is a monster, in almost every game so far he has been 2 levels ahead. I honestly think we can discuss who is the best player in the world between Faker and TheShy. Sure he is still young but you can't deny he got the talent and the mechanics
I honestly think TheShy plays like how I'd imagine an aggressive prime Faker would play. You can even see hints of it when he plays, he makes uses of small movements to avoid damage even if he's likely to get hit. He also shows great fundamentals no matter which champs he is playing. He doesn't have a drop in performance when he plays a different champ, the consistent aggressiveness is carried over. For example, whenever he plays Tank champions like Sion, he makes it feel just as oppressive as his carry champs. He is in my opinion, probably the greatest toplaner yet, being able to switch to tanks or carries when ever his team need one.
@@fluffything7134 i think i agree with all of it except best toplaner ever. Marin still holds that for me, but maybe Shy can surpass him this tournament if he goes ham in bracket stage.
People are not talking about Bwipo but I think that he may be the best GP player in the tournament. Considering Nemesis holds a TF ban and blue side should ban Pantheon pretty much all the time, a third ban forced by Bwipo will give Fnatic enormous opportunities in the P/B phase. Just ban Kaisa Ezreal and pick Xayah at the first rotation. If enemy picks Rakan, just go with Pyke, Hyli is a monster on the champ. I think they have a clear win condition on the red side and they may be the unseen favourites to win it all.
FNC will have the advantage that they are a team that is REALLY good in preparing for one team. They might struggled on the first day in groups, but now they can really prepare for a single team at a time. FNCWIN
well there was also 2014, no skt, yet korea looked invincible. There is a correlation between the succes of korea and the succes of skt, but I don't think there is causation (not in the direction skt->korea at least)
@@Mazsi1201 TBF, 2014 SKT was still a top team at that time. They were a top 5 team then. 2018 SKT was uber disappointing, almost relegation tier. They did even not reach playoffs in summer.
tbh I would have liked to see jteam vs TL to really see if NA is 4th. The gap between 3rd best region and 4th is huge. The gap between 4th and 5th is smaller imo. The NA teams wins looked like struggles where they were really close to losing some.
I just want to add, another possible factor to TL's loss is that they're the only western team in Group D and since they bootcamped in EU instead of KR, I think they were caught off guard by the meta set by the 3 asian teams in the group, most of whom bootcamped in KR.
did ppl forget vlad just got cheesed top lane ganked pre minion spawn and he almost killed the shy still everytime they fought despite being 1500 +gold behind
Honestly I don't know why they are so surprised by Fnatics performance. Yeah they looked bad in week one but Rekkles said they were playing too scared and just waiting for enemy mistakes which was a bad plan. But Fnatic is totally capabpe of beating the best teams. It wasn't a question of if they could do it it wad a question of if they'd show up on that day and they did. I was expecting them to show up like that from day one and I was quite disappointed but I always knew they could still get out. I believed they would and it was sweet.
They were surprised because even Fnatic was surprised they got out. Rekkles was crying after the game, have you seen anyone who was so confident about their game plays cry just because of getting out of groups? That’s why! Stop trying to be smart. You just got lucky because they got out after a huge throw from SKT.
Fnc is capable of beating anyone. All EU fans know that. It's always a question of whether they can play their style to get that victory. FNC and G2 are the pride of Europe and we will show what we're made of in the quarters. Who knows? Maybe Splyce surprises me too, just like Misfits did against SKT
Fncs performance isnt surprising they're a good bo1 team. Maybe you haven't watched this show before but even EU analysts themselves said fnc CAN get out of groups in Bo1s, but won't bet on them in Bo5s. They said if SKT vs FNC and FNC vs RNG bo5 happens, they'd bet on SKT and RNG. Good for them it's bo1 and they got the weakest first seed. So they have no excuses to not go semis right?
Clutch Gaming, I wanted them to let it all hang out. IMO Clutch tried to play too to their opponents. Put Huni and Cody Sun on scaling picks and prioritize Lira's picks, because his pool of effective champs seemed the smallest.
Hmm g2(favorited by some to win the tournament), stated that damwon is challenging in scrims and the most recent worlds champs in ig, not very difficult...
No, even if TL won against iG, the TL draft was horrible. Why could they not figure out it was obviously Gragas jungle, and then the Qiyana is mid, so they decide to ban Lissandra and Syndra after picking LeBlanc for what exactly?
They wanted to counter-pick Qiyana with Leblanc and were afraid of a flex, I guess ? But Qiyana jungle + Gragas support is a terrible flex when the jungle pool was already extremely pinched, so those bans were still terrible.
@@Nr4747 Their plan was to give Jensen and Impact confortable match up and preferably confort pick. In most of the game 5 Jensen player LB they were too focused on confort picks they missed their draft synergy and Keeping the enemy team to get good synergies as well
My favorite non-players people from League and Phreak (which I didn’t like at all in this episode, he comes off so negative for some reason. He’s killing my vibe) I miss my boo Frosky, but nice episode guys! Btw. Bring back Kobe again, this man is just so positive and awsome. As an EU fan, I would be ok with NA winning Worlds one day, just to see this man happy xD such a good dude.
Of course Jatt isn't here now that EU has 3 teams in quarters. Would love for him to expand his great analysis: "If you believe that G2 are the best team in the world then it makes sense to also rate Fnatic as close second. But I don't think that G2 are the best and that pushes down Fnatic a lot for me."
fuhbloom lol, wait G2 was overhyped and fnc was slightly worse than them. In essence that was Jatt’s take and he was absolutely right. Insult me and call me salty if you want but like your assessment is just wrong
Think Azael's point about strong teams focusing on themselves may be coming from his own experience. Azael's WoW arena team was once at the top of the world, and maybe that was how he used to prepare for tournaments.
Feel bad for Uzi. He spent years perfecting adc role, and the meta changes into less adc focused. Doublelift said it very well, it almost didn't matter if he under perform or over perform, the game is often decided before that happens. For 2 years now it has not been the hyper carry meta, ban Xayah and Kai'sa and it's over. He was forced to use ezreal on the last game, of course they can be exploited. Riot made too many adcs not even close to viable on competitive play. Also, for the first time champion gets 100% ban, that just shows how poorly done was the balance. They dropped the ball on this world meta. Having said that, props to LCK teams to be able to adapt to changes. no doubt the best region now.
that draft against fnatic is probably one of the worst ever @worlds. they need to switch out their entire coaching team and reprogram the team to play to meta
C9, imo, started their demise last year with that fiasco of benching and demoting everyone but licorice. Don't throw your players under the bus and expect them to come merrily back. I think that's why Jensen left. Nisqy is close, but not the same. Keep the NA MVP Sven on the map. Keep Licorice on carries and Sneaky on ADCs.
Faker was benched last year and this year as well so I don't think it's the coaching's fault id rather look at the both players coaching cause if players cant handle being benched when they play Bad they just dont have it
@@laurentmikasso7452 i get that, but Fakers coach also didn't get on mainstream media and flame him, dumping all the blame on him. C9 did. Besides, C9 had a winning record before everyone got benched, they started putting up losses, and when C9 had to win to get into playoffs, the original starters came back and they started winning again.
Damwon & IG hard group? SKT, FNC, RNG.....G2, Griffen....both harder. TL had 1 of the easier groups. NA obviously don't deserve a 1st seed. It should have gone to Griffen or FNC. Its fun watching NA fans be cocky & hopeful then seeing them humbled every year.
They didn't outplay lul. I truly believe Skt didn't care about that game and was playing for kills/ for fun. After the RNG game,Skt already qualified for quarters and they didn't need to beat FNC or CG so they had fun and most likely expected to run over FNC as they did before. Everyone besides possibly Clid inted that game, faker was tower diving,Khan and bot lane moving without vision. It was an INT. G2 can have for fun games,Skt can have them as well
@@nippy1234 Skt did not troll, Why would anyone even think so. It kinda tilts me that the players spend such a huge part of thier lives trying to be the best and people make excuses when they lose/win SKT could not handle the veigar pick, Smart move from Fnatic that skt didn't expect And G2 doesn't have "fun games", They might act like it because of the g2 brand, But winning games at worlds is everying to these players
@@wiktordxd6817 initially, G2 does have fun games,if you've watched any of their summer split,they may not have had one since worlds started but for sure they do. And one veigar pick isn't going to make individuals tower dive when they shouldn't, walking into bushes without warding and going into fog of war without vision. Everyone on SKT is an experienced player (faker especially) for sure he's played against numerous amounts of veigars and can work around it. Comparing their domination in the four games and then you see the FNC "loss", there's no way you actually believe that they weren't trolling/ inting
Final note: while you guys have commentators from every region in one place, you guys oughta dedicate some roundtable talk to worlds formatting--a solid hour or so talk on how what is obviously a flawed system (to say nothing about how the difference in domestic formats can affect international performance) can be corrected. Just an idea. But a very good one.
They do from what they've been showing nemesis and rekkles has always been known to have a small champ pools but theyare effective u can even say the same for bwipo and broxah the only one who i can say has variety is hyli
@@noelbate505 it's really funny how people still think rekkles has a small champ pool when he litterally plays all adcs and have played other champs than adc like karma garen this season to success. Also had his own unique picks in the past like adc kennen
@@InfinityEdgr yes but have u seen him play other adcs? Also karma garen are the only notable mages/bruiser he uses and remember last year he benched himself bcuz he can't play mages bot and even when he came back he didn't play any mages and only played hyper carries this past summer is when we only really see him have "variety" with karma and garen
@@noelbate505 Dude we saw rekkles play an absurd amount of adcs for his entire career...are u that daft? Rekkles magically forgot how to play tristana, sivir, ez because he focuses playing mages? Even PERKZ stated rekkles has an abusrd amount of champions he can play and rekkles is the best adc he ever played against lol. Why don't you have the balls to say Uzi can only play Ezreal and Xayah then sicne he only palyed those 2 champions at worlds.
@@mjhmab i hope so and i dont think that csacsi have small pool he never played poppy in worlds and hé was famous irelia player i thin rene is in her pocket too and not to mention shen, all we need is humanoid in good day and norskeren to play his playmakers and i think spy have a good shot vs skt
25:40 yeah the opponents he is against are great, but surely we remember how cocky he looked talking about how he was going to beat Jensen... which he couldn't. for how arrogant he is i'd say your disappointment, phreak, is justified. hopefully the only thing he has to say on interviews next year is how thankful he is he still gets a pay check from some unlucky team.
the 4 stages of hairline
LOL
Ahahaha accurate
Best comment!
Shiro z LMAOOOO
Wow
NA coming into worlds:
"TL has the easiest group they have IG which they beat before and who even is ahq, they're gonna get first seed"
NA after groups:
"TL had a super hard group, expecting them to come out of the group is optimistic"
hahahaha omg the shade
I mean a lot of the experts going in had group D being pretty close and had TL as the odd man out so idk about ur statement my dude
@@michaelgormley8599 You mean a couple casters (ie. mainly Kobe) flipped and said that TL isn't going to get out of groups after seeing the play-ins and DWG being drawn into D. At the group draw before the start of worlds everyone said TL were gonna make it out, probably even as a first seed
@@pixair I mean yeah, DW really made that group harder... If its literally any other team from playins drawn into that group I still think TL makes it out. As far as first seed goes that was mostly people still thinking about MSI where TL beat IG. Not super relevant anymore seeing as how long ago that was.
@@pixair Most people, casters included predicated their belief that it would be an easy group on the notion that DWG wouldn't be there AND that IG would not be in the same form as they were in as world champions; there were a lot of unanswered questions before the group was fully drawn, not only in terms of where DWG would go but also what form they would be in after looking pretty scattered and mediocre in play ins. Very early on professional analysts were nearly unanimously saying that TL would have a hard time getting out if DWG was drawn into the group and played at the level they played in the LCK.
ok, so, a lot's of people are saying that "TL was in a hard group"... ( 21:08 )
and I legit don't understand how that's supposed to excuse the TL performances this year.
Sure they were in a hard group because they are at worlds, and worlds are hard in general. Like if you are saying group D was hard, considering that they hard LPL and LCK 3rd Seed, then Group A is hard with G2 GRIFFIN, and group B is semi-hard because of FPX, and Groups C is super hard because of SKT RNG (and FNC since they have beaten RNG). If you say that, then you are simply paraphrasing the fact that TL wasn't good enough to make it out of groups, which is the core of the problem you were trying to excuse with that statement
This comments might seem stupid but my point was that only looking at the other team's performances in Group D to understand why TL couldn't make it out of groups is a very unhealthy mentality, and most people should look at what they did wrong instead of what the others did well.
totally agree
Agree doublelift with TL had easier group than FNC this year and easier group than c9 last year and the year before when first seed was tsm
Unfortunately, gaps are closing for LPL, LEC, and LCK. However, NA hasn't really improved and NA as a region isn't catching up to the other 3, which clearly showed at Worlds this year. If summer IG showed up, then TL would've had a better chance of getting out as a 2nd place in group D making IG the 3rd.
Not sure why you put FNC into brackets tho. They were still worlds finalists last year and have made semis multiple times. Historically they are more decorated than RNG. Group C was the group with three contenders.
Also I dont get Phreaks point about FNC. FNC of LEC vs FNC of Day 7. This was the kind of performance they had during the whole summer split, which is why only G2 was able to stop them - and they really had to work for it
Every group is hard for TL because they cant get NA team into it lol
Drakos *Comes with a clear definition of what MVP on this show means*. Azael *Yes, but actually no*
22:39 "Fourth best region... ".
Dangit, you just activated the curse. GG, TL.
xelasneko it’s sad but it’s true, NA is the fourth best region in all thirteen regions around the world but the gap between NA and LCK, LpL and LEC now is big, before it was LCK dominated everyone and every other regions look like trash until last year it was LPL and LcK vs the whole world.
notice how they dont even mention that the na teams only picked up 5 wins this worlds and 4 of them came from 0-6 lms teams, with the only noteable game being from damwon. Fourth means very little when lpl sits at 11wins, lec at 13 and lck at 16. While na is at 5.
@@l0lzor123 so you're telling me is that they're the 4th best region?
@@Piagway Correction wildcard region, they are closer to lms 3-15 than the major regions (11,13 and 16w)
@@l0lzor123 wins don't mean much. Especially with only counting one event.
*Doublelift achieving to be on Uzi's level since both of them are out groups. KEKW*
Tsm undefeated at worlds for two years
love this comment:))
@@Kayn_The_Shadow_Reaper Sven best ADC confirmed?
LULW XD
@@cooledry Sven is a jungler.
"Spätzle is also not potatoes" thank you Drakos, that had to be said for my sanity xD
Who would win?
Fun Plus OR One Plus
Mati1111 Nice one, we‘ll see! I guess FNC is LPL‘s 4th seed?
spy
@@sprinkleofthyme 3rd :p
Vedius didn’t rank Jankos as #1 for worlds top 20, ESPN did
Vedius ranked PERKZ #1.
@@pucci_did_nothing_wrong #2, actually . Faker was his number one.
@@anaznikol Yeah, you're right.
*sees three NA analysts.
Guess they'll predict NA winning quarters.
Oh wait.
How can't you win quarters if you can't lose a game LUL
No worries. Tsm got you.
Dude that was epic
Manoah TSM are still unbeaten at Worlds, so I guess it’s possible.
Phreak really took NAs loss on his heart..
not that much NAs failure, but EU success, phreak is EU hater, NA never performed but it was ok since EU didnt either, but now NA is basically wildcard
@@joranlucas 4th best region doesn't mean wildcard... TL and C9 are both good enough to get 3rd in EU, TL might even be able to get 2nd in EU
Vegz no
@@vegz6754 to be honest the reason NA is 4th is because money to import EU and KR players
Vegz lmao. That kind of attitude is why NA fans get disappointed. TL would probably end up 5 in EU. Don’t over evaluate NA teams. There aren’t any excuses for them losing. FNC has a harder group and got out
TL got a hard group, or better described as "Our best team ever produced in the whole of NA's history needed a group which had an LMS and a VCS team" cause let's face it, they could maybe only get out of a group with two teams from EU, CN or Korea if one of those teams was Splyce and that could still be up for debate, I'd give Splyce at least one win against TL so they maybe go 3-3 and it ends up being a tiebreaker.
Complain about the draw all you want but when someone asks you about your opinion on Group B, remember that that is one of the few possible groups that Team Liquid could have made it to quarters in.
So basically needing and relying on luck to get out of groups means you're just not good enough. Just true, TL isn't good enough if they're 1st seed and a play ins team top their group. Had they gone to Quarters, they'll just be eliminated the same as Splyce.
@@cepheus9856 like they said, NA 4th best region. our first seed is probably only better than EU's 3rd seed 3 or 4 times out of 5.
Teams like SKT and FPX are not worried about hard groups.
They are what makes it a hard group.
How do you rank Splyce that low after their Playoffs run against FPX and JT?
@@cepheus9856 You call Splyce out already? I'd say this is a bit early
I just wanna take this time to comment this :Drakos, Kobe and Azeal great casting guys , I really enjoy the games you cast!
Is that a burn on Phreak? Phreak is the best!
Fatal Shore that’s debatable
Fatal Shore There are basically two schools of thought.
Fatal Shore absolutely not
Uzi vs Rekkles is not 9:2, it's 11:4, people always forget the FNC vs QG Reapers, they played 2:2 at IEM worlds when Uzi was in QG
I think they r only counting RNG vs FNC, 2015 was pretty forgettable for Uzi.
@@azhidaal Than they should say it, because RNG vs FNC is also not 9:2, it's 10:4 cause in this same IEM worlds FNC won against RNG (wihtout Uzi), so Rekkles vs Uzi in FNC/RNG is 9:2
it makes sense that the region led by liquid is the 4th best.
Love the mixed intro music. Whoever had that idea, thank you :D
Please make amateur scene for NA or make more open tryouts for LCS teams for academy and LCS. Develop more amateur scene and not only making scouting grounds, make open tryouts or something like that not only for like top 5 players for each position.
NA really needs homegrown talents so badly.
@@fluffything7134 so true. I'm a LCK fan and I see so many LCK teams scouting many young talents and that's how GRF, DWG and AFS got their talents. By looking at NA, they just buy some LCK or EU players just for short term goal. LPL scouts many Korean players that has incredible career or just some talented young players. NA has way more money than Korea and their transferring market is just huge and I know they can do what LCK does so NA really should do something to get players.
1. Make an amateur scene
2. Much more open tryouts for LCS/Academy
3. Stop buying some mid or low tier players from the LCK
4. Actually kick players out who are old and useless so the young players can have chances. Watch CLG having Darshan and Huhi being useless and making them stuck in academy team. Lit Huhi got so bad that he transferred his position to support and we all know how bad an autofilled supports are. Some pro wouldn't even be able to hit masters/grandmaster without their super Riot accounts. Look at their w/r. They barely stay in low grandmaster with those 50% or lower wr.
yes, as an outsider it really confuses me why the lcs doesn't invest in young talents smh.
Most of the NA talents are toxic and even the less toxic ones wono get in because other pro players won't let them in. LCS wants PR friendly players and current players don't want their place taken so no. There will never be any good new talent in NA unless they come to c9 because C9 is the only team that will allow a new talent to shine.
uncutvirgin the problem with investing in talent, there just isn't a lot of talent to find. solo queue top players are usually steamers or pro players and trying to implement them into a pro scene is not always as easy as it may seem. also not a lot of people in na invest in esports it's a very small scene in North America
TSM undefeated at Worlds 2019. NA makes it to quarterfinals ...on the analysts desk 😂
haHAA
Azael's thoughts on lck teams especially lck starting in 13:30 min mark are precise and very well observed. He's pretty smart to recognize
more of this please...love the banter in the beginning.
I mean, Rekkles might only have 1 game on Kai'sa this summer split but he absolutely beasted that game
Listening to this while sick... Very calming and informative
Vedius put faker number 1 not Jankos he is referring to the ESPN list. Stop dissing the best EU analysis
Exactly, this was just nonsense from Azael.
Azael c9 fanboy is just salty g2 smashed c9 even without being serious and even with an underperforming topside.
In the past 6 years na has only made it to knock out stage 5 times cloud 9 accounts for 4 out of those 5 times. Let that sink in our worlds succes has been linked to c9 again and again
to knockouts you mean
Benedek Pap yes ty I’m going to edit it
Are we here just to suffer - na fan.
LMS is right there with you. And us LPL fans have already began to suffer, and no doubt will soon join the rest of NA.
All these people comparing SPY vs SKT to MsF vs SKT.
U guys do realize Faker isnt 1v5ing every game this worlds right? He has an actual team with a good Jg and consistent ADC. This isnt Blank Huni Bang. Its Clid Khan and Teddy. Have some brains.
If KT beats IG last year, good chance they win worlds. Broadly, yes, a bad year by Korea, but is it really fair to talk about their performance this way. (Also, no Griffin at worlds. We oughta talk about the region as such, not merely their representatives in a disadvantageous meta and a close series)
When someone swears and its not Froskurinn 😡😡
is Froskurinn in eu now? i miss him
Him?
@@vladutbocan8776 him! :D
@@saske23b THEM, you cisgendered NEANDERTHAL
@@steeveewuzzheer1992 lmao
0:49 RIP the waterbottle
Lulu pick was to deny Pyke ultimate, pretty sure about it. Funnily enough Hyli didn't ult once that game except right in the end.
Then again, wouldn't a Soraka have been better? She not only can make the ult execute hard, but easily counter out the hook too.
As Pyke i always find it harder to lane against a Soraka than any other Support.
i miss FROSKURINN many ppl hate her , but i love her.....
I don't understand the hate for her. She's an amazing analyst and knows more about this game than 90% of the cast.
@@bos7522 she's a woman and she's been outspoken about *healthy* feminism, it's literally the only reason why people hate her, because of how the community works
I'd say Pantheon is permabanned because he's a possible 5 way flex. He can be played in any role, thus giving a huge draft advantage when picked.
As far as the mvps go, I would probably put Nemesis on there. I think FNC would have failed to get out of groups without him. He was really consistent and had some great performances. Faker, Kobbe, Doinb and TheShy were others that sprung to mind for mvps of the group stage, as far as being 'the most valuable player for a team'. Without these players, I doubt any of them would have had the same impact without these players.
Edit: I forgot about ShowMaker.
Phreak slips in that F bomb, Frosk gets bleeped. I feel like their editor is just trolling her at this point.
i still love her so much
Azael slipped one and was bleeped too, probably just went unnoticed by editors
yeeeeaaahhhh...i was waitin for this! made my evening :)
I get somewhat confused when people talk about FNC champ pool issues. Sure they've only played 1-2 champs in every role, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Teams can't pick away or ban GP, Lee Sin, Elise, Cassiopeia, Veigar, Twisted Fate, Xayah, Pyke, and Rakan, especially if they're forced onto red side and have to ban Pantheon/Qiyana
Faker asked who the "ex-toplaner" for RNG was before LangX. He definitely knows who the current RNG toplaner is. On one of Clid's interviews with Ashley Kang, Clid talked about what their plan was going against RNG and clearly SKT did some research on RNG.
Actually I think he doesn't base on faker really has 0 curiosity about other than what kinda champion the enemy picks, SKT might know,but not faker.
@@nicetimmy It's not about curiosity, it's about preparation. One doesn't simply stay at the top for such a long time being this lazy.
@@cooledry I think you misunderstood my point, there is no way faker will be lazy nor I think he is, from my prospective faker DOESN'T CARE who or what team his gonna face with only very very little exception,cuz what he needs to focus on is what combination the enemy team might brought and how to compete with experience and coach group's advice,you can notice by a lot of his interview his stream and past tournament result, is not he doesn't care, is just only he doesn't have to.
Well, not much to analyze from RNG since they clearly play the same style ever since. Which is playing around Uzi. It's sad tbh.
@@nicetimmy Actually every T1 members look at other regions they do it every single day People know those guys some lesser than others but he just acts as if he doesnt care mostly because it's more effective to look at a team as a whole it help as Kkoma says not to grow complacent
I love watching those episodes 1 week later.
When will TSM play?
They're not at this tournament.
OH NONONO PepeLaugh
next year
You missed them. They already finished the tournament with 0 defeats.
TheShy is a monster, in almost every game so far he has been 2 levels ahead. I honestly think we can discuss who is the best player in the world between Faker and TheShy. Sure he is still young but you can't deny he got the talent and the mechanics
He got Just the mechanics though.
He's mechanical, but so is Tarzan, who is significantly more cerebral than TheShy.
I honestly think TheShy plays like how I'd imagine an aggressive prime Faker would play. You can even see hints of it when he plays, he makes uses of small movements to avoid damage even if he's likely to get hit. He also shows great fundamentals no matter which champs he is playing. He doesn't have a drop in performance when he plays a different champ, the consistent aggressiveness is carried over. For example, whenever he plays Tank champions like Sion, he makes it feel just as oppressive as his carry champs. He is in my opinion, probably the greatest toplaner yet, being able to switch to tanks or carries when ever his team need one.
Faker is not on theshys lvl!
@@fluffything7134 i think i agree with all of it except best toplaner ever. Marin still holds that for me, but maybe Shy can surpass him this tournament if he goes ham in bracket stage.
Faker and SKT literally thought WH OMEGALUL to Langx
What does WH even mean?
@@frederickbarbarossa7961 No buddy. It just looks and means "Who"
People are not talking about Bwipo but I think that he may be the best GP player in the tournament. Considering Nemesis holds a TF ban and blue side should ban Pantheon pretty much all the time, a third ban forced by Bwipo will give Fnatic enormous opportunities in the P/B phase. Just ban Kaisa Ezreal and pick Xayah at the first rotation. If enemy picks Rakan, just go with Pyke, Hyli is a monster on the champ. I think they have a clear win condition on the red side and they may be the unseen favourites to win it all.
FNC will have the advantage that they are a team that is REALLY good in preparing for one team. They might struggled on the first day in groups, but now they can really prepare for a single team at a time. FNCWIN
I know that FNC have a good chance, but I am still not sure how strong FPX is D:
I think SKT% were meming about LangX. They are hillarious in general.
It wasn’t the Garen Yuumi that was bringing FNC down. It was Bwipo , Hyli running it down and Broxah being invisible.
Jaime Ruiz yeah hyli really ran it down on yummi lmao...
This episode isn't up in castbox yet... guess I have to watch it here
SKT always raise the standard for Korea. If SKT is on top, you have quality teams below them.
Look at 2018, no SKT, all Korean teams are weak.
Yeah, I agree. Look at GRF and DWG(though they have lots of mistakes) are very dominant in the group stage after getting destroyed by SKT
well there was also 2014, no skt, yet korea looked invincible. There is a correlation between the succes of korea and the succes of skt, but I don't think there is causation (not in the direction skt->korea at least)
@@Mazsi1201 TBF, 2014 SKT was still a top team at that time. They were a top 5 team then. 2018 SKT was uber disappointing, almost relegation tier. They did even not reach playoffs in summer.
@@Mazsi1201 2014 summer skt was still top tier team its just that samsung both teams where better
@@ajmamora6332 and kt arrows. Stil mad kt lost to najin after the finals with ssb
tsm plays on sunday
TSM plays bjerg's balls on sunday.
TSM undefeated at worlds for the past 2 years
11:12 It's not the first time Korea got three seeds out. 2017: Rox, Samsung, Skt all got out of groups.
it was longzhou not rox, also all seeds got out in 2014 & 2015 & 2016
i think he meant all three teams out as first seed.
@@zackestin1368 all 3 seeds were first in groups in both 2014 & 2016
Umm... Yeah listen to what the guy above said. I got the years wrong.
i think he wanted to say eu but said korea for some reason
I commend Phreak for trying to go with the Barbershop Quartet, and shame on the table for not following
Phreak, your C was actually incredibly close to an actual C LOL
Actualy think that was closer to an E? Not that far off but still.
@@Vaffelsaus It's a slightly sharp B / slightly flat C, I don't think it's an E unless you're using a really wild temperment
tbh I would have liked to see jteam vs TL to really see if NA is 4th. The gap between 3rd best region and 4th is huge. The gap between 4th and 5th is smaller imo. The NA teams wins looked like struggles where they were really close to losing some.
Hope you feel better soon Frosk!
I just want to add, another possible factor to TL's loss is that they're the only western team in Group D and since they bootcamped in EU instead of KR, I think they were caught off guard by the meta set by the 3 asian teams in the group, most of whom bootcamped in KR.
did ppl forget vlad just got cheesed top lane ganked pre minion spawn and he almost killed the shy still everytime they fought despite being 1500 +gold behind
Why didnt Perkz get dressed up? :(
Honestly I don't know why they are so surprised by Fnatics performance. Yeah they looked bad in week one but Rekkles said they were playing too scared and just waiting for enemy mistakes which was a bad plan. But Fnatic is totally capabpe of beating the best teams. It wasn't a question of if they could do it it wad a question of if they'd show up on that day and they did. I was expecting them to show up like that from day one and I was quite disappointed but I always knew they could still get out. I believed they would and it was sweet.
0-3 ig
Ig vs fnc 3-1
They were surprised because even Fnatic was surprised they got out.
Rekkles was crying after the game, have you seen anyone who was so confident about their game plays cry just because of getting out of groups?
That’s why! Stop trying to be smart. You just got lucky because they got out after a huge throw from SKT.
Fnc is capable of beating anyone. All EU fans know that. It's always a question of whether they can play their style to get that victory. FNC and G2 are the pride of Europe and we will show what we're made of in the quarters. Who knows? Maybe Splyce surprises me too, just like Misfits did against SKT
Fncs performance isnt surprising they're a good bo1 team. Maybe you haven't watched this show before but even EU analysts themselves said fnc CAN get out of groups in Bo1s, but won't bet on them in Bo5s. They said if SKT vs FNC and FNC vs RNG bo5 happens, they'd bet on SKT and RNG. Good for them it's bo1 and they got the weakest first seed. So they have no excuses to not go semis right?
there are so many na casters because other regions' players just become pros
didn't you forget to dress up cardboard perkz behind you? :s
Taking notes 📝
yes and SKT was at one point at 9th place in the latest summer split.
40:35 Can someone find me the tweet?
i can't
it doesnt exist
look at jatts twitter
Clutch Gaming, I wanted them to let it all hang out. IMO Clutch tried to play too to their opponents. Put Huni and Cody Sun on scaling picks and prioritize Lira's picks, because his pool of effective champs seemed the smallest.
man how can you say that TL s group is difficult? when it s the second most easy group of the worlds? excuse me what?
TL and AHQ was what made that group easy.
Hmm g2(favorited by some to win the tournament), stated that damwon is challenging in scrims and the most recent worlds champs in ig, not very difficult...
@@caliyugatv every group was hard, but TL's really was the second easiest. You wouldn't want to be swapped by CG or C9 as TL ever.
No, even if TL won against iG, the TL draft was horrible. Why could they not figure out it was obviously Gragas jungle, and then the Qiyana is mid, so they decide to ban Lissandra and Syndra after picking LeBlanc for what exactly?
They wanted to counter-pick Qiyana with Leblanc and were afraid of a flex, I guess ? But Qiyana jungle + Gragas support is a terrible flex when the jungle pool was already extremely pinched, so those bans were still terrible.
@@Nr4747 Their plan was to give Jensen and Impact confortable match up and preferably confort pick. In most of the game 5 Jensen player LB they were too focused on confort picks they missed their draft synergy and Keeping the enemy team to get good synergies as well
43:24 Vedius have Perkz#1 not Jankos.
He has faker number 1 and perkz in 2
@@lowkey9429 maybe, but it's still not Jankos 1#
New phase for LPL fans in 2019: LWX Hyper Inting
2:08 what did you say there Drakos? Tone deaf as fact? I thought so.
11:13 “first time Korea got 3 seeds out”
2017 - SKT, Samsung, Longzhu
2016 - SKT, Samsung, ROX
2015 - SKT, KOO, KT
2014 - SSW, SSB, Najin
Looks like 3 seeds to me?
As a 1 seed
Vedius did not have Jankos as number one on his list, ESPN did. Vedius put faker number 1.
The dream is still alive! G2 vs FNC in finals. Let's go baby.
VielteX never gonna happen
spy win worlds
My favorite non-players people from League and Phreak (which I didn’t like at all in this episode, he comes off so negative for some reason. He’s killing my vibe)
I miss my boo Frosky, but nice episode guys!
Btw. Bring back Kobe again, this man is just so positive and awsome. As an EU fan, I would be ok with NA winning Worlds one day, just to see this man happy xD such a good dude.
Phreak hyped up NA and disrespected DWG so Id expect him to be bitter :)
What microphones are these?
Of course Jatt isn't here now that EU has 3 teams in quarters. Would love for him to expand his great analysis: "If you believe that G2 are the best team in the world then it makes sense to also rate Fnatic as close second. But I don't think that G2 are the best and that pushes down Fnatic a lot for me."
fuhbloom G2 couldn’t even get first in their group lawl. Also fanatic looked like trash for most of the tournament. Almost lost to clutch lawl
Travis Ritt u must be silver Xd or from na
@@tritt78 FNC improved when it mattered, beating SKT and RNG convincingly. Stay salty, buddy. Maybe one day NA will accomplish something.
fuhbloom lol, wait G2 was overhyped and fnc was slightly worse than them. In essence that was Jatt’s take and he was absolutely right. Insult me and call me salty if you want but like your assessment is just wrong
@@tritt78 wait till bo5s, then you can say if they are overhyped or not, now it's when true worlds start
Yeah sure but can perkz play Heimer Bot??
Where is Frosko?
Why did G2 lose soo badly in the final ? i just don't understand how such a good team beat SKT and get totally smashed
Can we talk about how NA was incapable of playing the worlds meta and that was their real downfall?
"- Kobbe is such a hard carry!
- Yeah, its gonna be hard to carry that team."
ahahah)
Not mentioning Faker, Clid, or Crisp for MVP of groups 🤦♂️
You get mvp title for current performance, not because u are a legend overall
Faker played like garbage.
Tarzan, theshy and showmaker are top 3 performers during the groupstage.
Steven4547466 You need help lmfao
@@4547466 deathless in two games, made the backdoor call in the RNG game, ran it down in only 1 game but sure, whatever tickles ur pickle mate.
Vedius didnt have Jankos number 1, that was ESPN. Vedius had Faker.
TSM TSM TSM! The undefeated champion wuhuu✨
They're not at worlds this year.
Think Azael's point about strong teams focusing on themselves may be coming from his own experience. Azael's WoW arena team was once at the top of the world, and maybe that was how he used to prepare for tournaments.
where frosk at zzz
Everybody acting like caps didn’t get owned by chovy...
Pretty much everyone in the world gets owned by Chovy...
Feel bad for Uzi. He spent years perfecting adc role, and the meta changes into less adc focused. Doublelift said it very well, it almost didn't matter if he under perform or over perform, the game is often decided before that happens.
For 2 years now it has not been the hyper carry meta, ban Xayah and Kai'sa and it's over. He was forced to use ezreal on the last game, of course they can be exploited. Riot made too many adcs not even close to viable on competitive play. Also, for the first time champion gets 100% ban, that just shows how poorly done was the balance. They dropped the ball on this world meta.
Having said that, props to LCK teams to be able to adapt to changes. no doubt the best region now.
that draft against fnatic is probably one of the worst ever @worlds. they need to switch out their entire coaching team and reprogram the team to play to meta
C9, imo, started their demise last year with that fiasco of benching and demoting everyone but licorice. Don't throw your players under the bus and expect them to come merrily back. I think that's why Jensen left. Nisqy is close, but not the same. Keep the NA MVP Sven on the map. Keep Licorice on carries and Sneaky on ADCs.
Faker was benched last year and this year as well so I don't think it's the coaching's fault id rather look at the both players coaching cause if players cant handle being benched when they play Bad they just dont have it
@@laurentmikasso7452 i get that, but Fakers coach also didn't get on mainstream media and flame him, dumping all the blame on him. C9 did. Besides, C9 had a winning record before everyone got benched, they started putting up losses, and when C9 had to win to get into playoffs, the original starters came back and they started winning again.
Damwon & IG hard group? SKT, FNC, RNG.....G2, Griffen....both harder. TL had 1 of the easier groups. NA obviously don't deserve a 1st seed. It should have gone to Griffen or FNC.
Its fun watching NA fans be cocky & hopeful then seeing them humbled every year.
Suprised no one said Jensen did not have a good performance...
before watching: will NA casters be there in the next one ? :D
the dives of skt were not only not the best decision but they were not straight int
fnc just outplayed them in these situation
It was pretty int, have yet to see anything more int than that during worlds.
They didn't outplay lul. I truly believe Skt didn't care about that game and was playing for kills/ for fun. After the RNG game,Skt already qualified for quarters and they didn't need to beat FNC or CG so they had fun and most likely expected to run over FNC as they did before. Everyone besides possibly Clid inted that game, faker was tower diving,Khan and bot lane moving without vision. It was an INT. G2 can have for fun games,Skt can have them as well
@@nippy1234 Skt did not troll, Why would anyone even think so. It kinda tilts me that the players spend such a huge part of thier lives trying to be the best and people make excuses when they lose/win
SKT could not handle the veigar pick, Smart move from Fnatic that skt didn't expect
And G2 doesn't have "fun games", They might act like it because of the g2 brand, But winning games at worlds is everying to these players
@@wiktordxd6817 initially, G2 does have fun games,if you've watched any of their summer split,they may not have had one since worlds started but for sure they do. And one veigar pick isn't going to make individuals tower dive when they shouldn't, walking into bushes without warding and going into fog of war without vision. Everyone on SKT is an experienced player (faker especially) for sure he's played against numerous amounts of veigars and can work around it. Comparing their domination in the four games and then you see the FNC "loss", there's no way you actually believe that they weren't trolling/ inting
WHERE IS THE SPOTIFY VERSION
25:40 guys its nisqy. if he was good he would play in lec
Final note: while you guys have commentators from every region in one place, you guys oughta dedicate some roundtable talk to worlds formatting--a solid hour or so talk on how what is obviously a flawed system (to say nothing about how the difference in domestic formats can affect international performance) can be corrected. Just an idea. But a very good one.
Hilarious that everyone keeps saying FNC has shallow champion pools lmao.
It's true tho
They do from what they've been showing nemesis and rekkles has always been known to have a small champ pools but theyare effective u can even say the same for bwipo and broxah the only one who i can say has variety is hyli
@@noelbate505 it's really funny how people still think rekkles has a small champ pool when he litterally plays all adcs and have played other champs than adc like karma garen this season to success. Also had his own unique picks in the past like adc kennen
@@InfinityEdgr yes but have u seen him play other adcs? Also karma garen are the only notable mages/bruiser he uses and remember last year he benched himself bcuz he can't play mages bot and even when he came back he didn't play any mages and only played hyper carries this past summer is when we only really see him have "variety" with karma and garen
@@noelbate505 Dude we saw rekkles play an absurd amount of adcs for his entire career...are u that daft? Rekkles magically forgot how to play tristana, sivir, ez because he focuses playing mages? Even PERKZ stated rekkles has an abusrd amount of champions he can play and rekkles is the best adc he ever played against lol. Why don't you have the balls to say Uzi can only play Ezreal and Xayah then sicne he only palyed those 2 champions at worlds.
Nice predictions
If you look at the time stamps, out of all the quarterfinal matchups, it took them the least amount of time to analyze SKT vs. SPY.
😏😏
Maybe it's just too one-sided for them to actually make an argument..
Still spy in top 8 and where is na?
SPY will beat skt
@@mjhmab i hope so and i dont think that csacsi have small pool he never played poppy in worlds and hé was famous irelia player i thin rene is in her pocket too and not to mention shen, all we need is humanoid in good day and norskeren to play his playmakers and i think spy have a good shot vs skt
Of course, Splyce will smash SKT then proceed to destroy G2 in semis.
1:11:39 This is why I love Kobe
25:40 yeah the opponents he is against are great, but surely we remember how cocky he looked talking about how he was going to beat Jensen... which he couldn't. for how arrogant he is i'd say your disappointment, phreak, is justified. hopefully the only thing he has to say on interviews next year is how thankful he is he still gets a pay check from some unlucky team.
They forgot to dress up Perkz.