Microphonics in a guitar pickup certainly changes the tone. You can actually hear more pick attack and acoustic type tones. Had a strat with a cheapo unwaxed pickup in it. Sounded fabulous for clean recording.
I prefer the non-wax-potted version. It seem to be more dynamic. However, playing in front of a bank of amps I would want the wax potted pickup. I think stages (even for the pros) are becoming quieter and the need for wax potting has diminished a little. To me its a flavor issue. Its personal preference.
Thanks for explaining the details of factors involved, as I really enjoy hearing all the nerdy stuff. The wax potted pickup sounded a little darker, smoother, more uniform, and less dynamic. I preferred the unpotted pickup for some of the main reasons I like electric guitars - the serendipity, irregularities, and unpredictability of how they behave is inspiring. Those factors make the guitar fun, exciting, and "dangerous" to play.
Not hearing enough difference to make me want to deal with the hassles of un-potted pickups. I dealt with those briefly and they were a nuisance in the real world.
Great comparison, I didn't realize how drastic the differences! At least here, I really prefer the tone of the unpotted pickup. I have unpotted Gibson P-90s, I guess that's why I like them. I knew the Somnium was handy but it's outstanding for these demos.
There's a lot more to potting a pickup than just holding the parts together. Those coils move that close to the magnetic source and you're getting signal. That's why at one point, some manufacturers were epoxy potting the coils. It worked. Especially in front of Marshall stacks, but it took the nuance out of it as well as the "sparkle". Which is why I do what I can to remove as much of the wax, make them, or have them made, without potting.
Sound is vibration. The vibration of the pickup when the strings are struck is inevitable and basic science. The effect of waxing the coils is to allow the poll pieces to still "pickup" the vibration without interference from the coils vibrating and projecting that vibration which creates the "feedback". Peter Frampton started off playing an es-335 because he loved the tone of the semi-hollow. He was disappointed when. He tried to play it live at a gig and it just feedback really bad. Someone who heard him and apparently worried in a shop or whatnot ask him if she still wanted the same basic tone but with much less feedback. And he sold him the 3 pickup black les Paul that is now famous and it cured his problem enough to permanently switch to solid bodies. Both guitars had unwaxed paf pickups. But the combo of the three ply hollow body top and the unwaxed humbucker was a common issue for many guitarist. And why many switched to solid body. Eddie van Halen basically invented wax potting. He wax potted the PAF from his 58 es-335 and used it originally in his earlier frankenstrat. He did this because his band mates said the es-335 just looked lame and the strat sounded way to bright and thin. And eventually he created his own solution and the tone of those early creations are why his time eas so unique. Plus, the original humbucker he used (58 Gibson PAF from an es-335) was most likely an alnico ii vintage output and combined with an ash body and maple neck created a great even tone. The ash and maple tend to be scooped in tone and the alnico ii pickup is more flat toned and has less lies and high than alnico V but more pronounced mids. Combine this with a marshall super lead and that's how his brown sound tone was created. You can overwound an alnico 5 and achieve more mids and less lows that will sound similar to an alnico ii but with more natural compression. Waxed potting effects tone. Depending on your intended results it can effect it bad or good. Pickup covers effect the tin even more. Expensive humbucker usually use nickel covers that may reduce high and upper mid frequency but brass covers or pot medal covers sound like garbage. Removal of covers makes it sound more open, bright and percussive. That can be good or bad. Slash hates covers. And I would too on those slightly overwound 42ga enamel wire alnico ii humbucker. It's slightly overwound to give more compression and tighten the lows but the open coils allow it to be bright and biting enough that it sounds awesome through a marshall style amp with a classic type of hard rock tone. Wax potting affects tone. If you wanna here an excellent clip of unwaxed alnico ii paf pick-ups in a live setting then listen to The Allman Brothers live at Filmore East. Duane uses les Paul's with alnico ii with covers on run thru a marshall bass head run thru a 4x12 cab loaded with d series jbl pro sound speakers. Dickey is the same except he used a marshall guitar head( jtm I think) same speakers as Duane and a 57 gold top with alnico ii paf and covers still on. FYI: Duane always used the same pickups. So when people claim he used alnico 5 because he used a 59 Les Paul he actually traded his 57 gold top but said the pickups were not part of the deal they both kept the pickups they had so Duane actually put the 57 alnico ii paf into his 59 cherry sunburst. 59 is supposed to be the first year Gibson used alnico 5. And some still used various other alnico like some were alnico 3 and even the 61 sg(Les Paul) had alnico ii. So be weary of people who claim that Duane and dicky got thier sound from alnico 5 because it's probably a false assumption. My two cents.
I really appreciate your time in making this. I definitely heard a subtle difference between the two. A slight drop in brightness and volume. I tend to use VH tones - I definitely need wax potting.
Eddie committed BLASPHEMY! and potted a patent number pickup from his ES335 for Frankie If you need an excuse I have one real Les with 498 490 & an Agile with unpotted PAFs from GFS, horses for courses. Modern versions are potted, might just buy a potted one to swap in if needed. The intangible "mojo" is there, for sure, below stupid gain levels. Maybe unpotted pickups & Greenback IRs make a decent case for DI guitar...sometimes 😂
Outstanding video explaining the difference between wax potted pickups and non wax potted pickups you have people out here who are vintage heads who are vintage connoisseurs they want every detail of the 50s and early 60s but there is a price to pay mechanical noise when you deal with those pickups that are non potted thank you for explaining this to people who might not understand this the advantages and the disadvantages..
Yes, I hear a difference. I like the potted pup better. When I was a kid, I was told only use a wax potted pup. My 1981 Vantage came with open bobbin humbuckers. Grew to hate the look. Some time in 2005 I got on this rebuild kick. Little by little I changed the worn parts & look of of the guitar. I always liked chrome humbucker look. I also stumbled on Ebay chrome humbucker rings. I never saw the look of chrome rings with chrome covers. I added these to the look; brown stained (mahogany?) wings, (now) aging yellow maple center, (mahogany?) neck, rosewood fingerboard, custom metal knobs & custom turned toggle switch tips, chromed Hipshot bridge, locking tuners & a 25 inch scale I am very happy with the voice it has now. Hint of an SG vibe. The covered & potted humbuckers have traveled in a modern hard shell case so never banged or dropped. Always in a stand or in the case so scarf joint has never been damaged. This is my only humbucker guitar, my frankenstein, rewired several times & still considering another rewiring! It's in need of a refretting & a nut job. It has taught 3 generations to play guitar. I'll never get rid of it.
Good video with a good point. I could hear a slight difference. When you play in the real world, actually on a stage where you need a healthy stage volume, unpotted pickups can present you with some serious problems. I prefer the sound and functionality of a properly potted pickup. Using unpotted pickups makes about as much sense as "tone wood".
If it's bridge pickup, then definitely wax potted. I rise it close to the strings, so I touch it a lot. Middle pickup is nightmare by itself to be unpotted. I'd like to try unpotted, lower output neck p90 some day.
I shelled out an eye watering amount for ThroBak SLE 101s for my Gibson 57 Goldtop reissue. Best pickups I’ve ever played. You can hear anything and everything and it never squeals for me.
2002 Gibson Les Paul standard limited edition first generation unpotted burst buckers. Never ever had a problem live on stage or any other setting with feedback,noises or unwanted overtones. I would not have it any other way they sound f****** great
Clear and concise as always, Dylan. I get it! Easy to hear the difference. I have both in various guitars, and now I understand why they sound the way they do. I can justify using each in different situations, but now I can be more educated in the choices I make. Thanks! 👍🏻👍🏻🤘🏻✌🏻
Great stuff. It seems to me like most well-booked musicians will always go for the cleaner option. When you work as a professional, people around you won't want to put up with all the unwanted stuff they notice just because you need the things only you notice to get in the zone.
The differences between the pickups in your demo are very obvious if you're listening on good quality speakers. I have guitars with both potted and unpotted pups. There's a big difference in the way they respond both in the studio and at a gig, and to me, there are places where both types excel. For clean(ish) rhythm playing in a trio or quartet, the unpotted pickups bring a lot of added harmonics and a more (I hate using this word) organic feel that fills the available frequency space. For any heavier feel or fast tempo songs - or rhythmically complex clean-tone songs (funk), the potted pickups are more focused toward the fundamental frequency, and have a much quicker/tighter release time from the absence of resonating components. To me, it's easier to hear the differences in a mix, than soloed.
I’m liking the potted pickup, specifically it seems like it brought the guitar closer to the ear… like a change in distance despite that not being possible. The more tight signal just seems more up front, so for what I’m wanting… I like that
I have a Fender Brent Mason Signature Tele that has a non-wax potted Seymour Duncan Mini-Humbucker in the neck position, as y'all know... I had the same issue as Dylan demonstrated at 3:30: click noise from the pick that got worse the louder I would play, squealing and howling when I used a (mild) overdrive. Not fun, really. Then I read an article about how Brent Mason had the neck pup of his Tele wax-potted by Joe Glaser...almost 40 years after he had bought it! Now you don't tell me that his tone has changed... So I asked my guitar techie to wax pot the Mini-Humbucker, which he did with the use of 4 to 1 paraffin to beeswax. Hand potted to perfection! And the short bath in the wax didn't alter the tone much, after all we have tone controls on our amps, don't we? IMHO the benefits of the wax-potted vs the non-wax-potted are obvious. Just my 2 cents... Cheers! 😊
Peavey T-60 Very hot output, no wax. You just proved why I like it so much. I absolutely loved that guitar for metal and blues. I even wrote a riff that uses the feedback squeal. Sadly, that guitar was stolen from me. Not sure if I’ll ever be able to get one again. *****I would love to see a comparison between pickups of pole pieces vs blade as this style is used in the T-60. I’ve still never seen a side by side comparison video of this, using the same windings, etc.
It seemed to me that there was a tiny reduction in dynamic range. I don't think it's enough to matter in the final mix. Or rather, it's just another navel-gazing esoteric difference that only matters to guitar players.
Most times I prefer unpotted, they are more expressive. My R8 and R9 have custom buckers that are unpotted, love how I can play with feedback with them. However, for heavy distortion prefer potted.
If you are wax potting your pickups to play with high gain, they changed the tone cause you are using high gain. lol Yeah, good question. And, if so what tone does one prefer?
The non-wax potted do sound brighter but they come with side-effects with feedback etc. I'd be interested to hear your take on lacquer-potted pickups. I'm guessing that they would be a middle ground in that they may just stop the outer layers from moving but the inner layers of the pup may still vibrate. Good or bad ???? The signature pups that Chris Buck uses (RadioShop), seems to be a middle ground but they don't give details about what they do ( why should they :) ).
I only had to wax my pots when playing a loud live set. It seemed like the noise from drums and bass would make an annoying subtle resonance that drove me nuts, no one else could hear it, but waxing the pickups and good grounding did a lot. Playing in a studio (bedroom) or even with a direct injection (no amps) probably makes waxing less necessary.
I heard the dynamics diminish. I heard a missing harmonic at a really low frequency, like the wax took away some of the best part of the body of the sound, reminiscent of room sound. Def prefer unpotted but it's so subtle the wax is probably worth the tradeoff. BTW, am I the only one with the opinion that the more breakup, the harder to hear the guitar's tone? Proof of this is the fact some people use a Tele for hard distortion. Another bit of evidence is that people use hotter and hotter pickups for heavy distortion even though they sound like crap clean. I think demos should be clean unless you're demoing the breakup itself . . . but I digress. Yes potting changes it, but unpotted pickups are for light breakup and potted are for distortion imo.
I have unpotted pups in my first guitar and, yes, if you yell directly over them, they act as a mic. Noisey and uncontrollable at any volume over quiet bedroom levels.
To me it seemed to lose its brightness however the sound was more stable with the wax ,i liked it both with and without , it seemed to lose a bit of a tinny sound with the wax which was nice ❤🍀🕊️ however i have very old eardrums that may be seriously destroyed ,thank you very much for the demonstration 🍁
I've got a Jackson guitar, and I'm pretty sure the pickups are microphonic and either poorly potted or unpotted. I get crazy low pitched feedback in front of my amp at regular rehearsal volume, and I have to turn perpendicular to the amp to get it to stop, doesn't matter where in the room I am. Also, when I talk into the pickup, it picks up my voice, which I don't think it's supposed to do.
Is there some sort of happy medium? I recently aquired an old Hondo II LP copy with a slightly chambered body and unpotted pickups. The tone is amazing, the bite and sustain are awesome and the notes just sound so sweet, i think it sounds better than an actual Gibson LP. I can't play it through my cranked supro though because it squeels so bad. I potted the pups on my epiphone LP a few months back, changed the tone a bit, stopped the squeal though.
Great video. Idk what I want. I think I'm just gonna go for it and try potting my tele pick ups. All that extraneous noise is annoying. I think the potted sound could've matched the unpotted tone with a bit of tweaking and additional gain anyway.
I recently bought a pair of Gibson T-Type unpotted humbuckers in order to upgrade my Epiphone 335 but I haven’t installed yet. Do you recommend to open them and put a layer of wax into them? If so, how should do I have to do it and what’s the procedure? Parafine works the same as wax?
Definitely could hear a difference. If you play loud, get wax potted. If low gain, blues, jazz, clean and you play smaller venues wax free dynamic fun! I wonder if it can be measured on levels of waxing, like lacquer on a guitar body, doesn’t depend on what you use but how much 🤔
Everything affects tone, even the air, especially the air because thats the only way we hear tone when it vibrates air molecules, the most senstive pickup - air. Without it we wouldnt have tone, or would we? If i cupped my mouth around your ear and screamed really loud in space, could you hear it? ... you never know until you try but the question isnt weather it affects tone, everything affects tone, literaly one drop of oil will change the sound of your guitar then it was a moment before on quantum scale. The question becomes, do you notice it? And that question is so subjective there really isnt point in arguing about what someone else hears, or feels or whatever. Making the whole tone argument pretty pointless due to subjectivity. :)
A solidly mounted, wax-potted P90 is as far as I'm happy to venture into squeal monster territory. I've played at serious volume with unpotted pickups and they're a liability. Its no fun trying find the one spot/stance that doesn't result in an all consuming, godawful howl.
You sold me on wax potted pickups. I wouldn't know if mine are wax potted or not. I have a Ibanez SR300EB and a Jackson JS3 Spectra bass. Both have humbuckers and exposed pole pieces.
Thanks for the vid! Really explained things well. Couldn’t notice a difference watching thru a TV. I’m a wax potted fan as I want extraneous noise minimized whenever possible especially if a Humbuckers’ involved.
Yeah I think it may have been quieter, but not so much it was obvious. I think I like it better. Especially since I hate hearing a pick or finger striking the guitar.. I got to try this now..pex
They pickup more overtones and are more sensitive to touch when they are unpotted. But sometimes the pickups need it. It really depends how they are built and how you use them. If I were to buy a set I would want them unpotted and only wax them if they needed it. But if it sounds good, who cares, it is good.
So I'm wondering if an inputted pad sounds better ar higher guitar volumes because its actually getting sound out of the speaker to into pickup like a microphone . I know it causes feedback but is there a sweet spot. I'd love to see if the high ,low or even mid changes . Also it was hard to hear difference because there wasn't enough A to B comparison for me. Love your videos thanks for sharing.
The unwaxed sounded a hair more 'open' sounding, but really, the difference was so slight a lot of it may be just psychoacoustics. I can see why someone would want waxed pickups in a live situation, but Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Paul Kossoff, Jeff Beck, et. al. didn't have waxed pickups in their guitars and they did OK, even when playing at loud volumes, so I would think it's a matter of taste as well as working with whatever you have.
Hey question, just got a 2023 gibson Les paul standard 60’s, not a fan at all or the 61’ burstbuckers (unpotted like BB’s 1&2, but hotter with 61’ set being both Alnico V’s rather then Alnico II’s). Been playing a Gib SG standard, got new back in 04’; compared to these 61’ BB’s, i much prefer the 490r/498t in my 2004 Sg standard. That said, i dont want my 60s standard LP to have that same tone as my Sg& voice. I’ve been debating grabbing a high end PAF clone pup ex,throbak SLE 101s, monty’s PAF, seth lovers), or if i should go with wax potted like a set of Symour duncan Slash 2.0 alnico II pros…seems like rhe slash wax potted do higher gain better, and some of those PAF clones like montys can get too icey/glassy on the bridge. I love playing classic rock with overdriven tones & standad gain levels , not sure if too soft for handling high gIn class rock, i love a great clean tone but id rather not need a booster since i dont play cleanvl ae much as driven. Not sure if some PAF clones will just sound very close to the 61’ Bb’s? Jw cuz both unpotted & senstive..if they sound soon then i think my favourite more mordern tone on an LP is the SD slash 2.0’s. Any input would be great ( scared to swap pups & drop $$ for pups that spund very similiar to stock 61’ burstbuckers). Thanks !
I have tinnitus, so that may be affecting my detecting the difference, but I really don’t notice one. I’m wondering if this is yet another thing that the player feels, but the audience, not so much until feedback comes into the equation.
Hi, I would like to change my pickups's (490r 498t) cover with new ones, planning to match the pole screws as well. I was wondering if I would need to wax pot the pickups? What do you think? Do I need to deep them in this case? Thanks!
I don't hear the noise on the Was Potted HB. I hear noise from Noisey Pick-up Rattles just LIke I hear Noise from Cheap Speakers. UGH . I hate cheap speakers and cheap pickups. Great VIdeo thanks. I have both types.
I just found your videos because I’m researching this topic and what do ya know, you posted this today lol. Question, are uncovered pickups wax potted as well? I just took a cover off a a sd 59 and it’s covered in wax. It’ll obviously need removed, but am I better off just putting the cover back on and picking up an uncovered version.
In my opinion, pickups only need to be potted if one is playing at really loud stage volumes. I prefer unpotted. Many players are using multi fx pedals with monitors or in-ears. So, potting is not as necessary. Like I said, just my 2 cents.
Weird how all those famous guitarists used unpotted PAF's in their 'Bursts in the 60's, with PA speakers BEHIND them, loud as possible stage volume and could control the feedback and really didn't have any problems. Maybe that's why they are famous guitarists. ;)
Just to note, the coveted early PAF pickup tones were all made with Unwaxed pickups with inconsistent windings. Why people seek the older overpriced PAF pickups and expect a 60+ year old low Gauss magnet loose worn winding to give a sound that they are hearing on a 60+ year old recording. While missing the fact that the artist used new unworn full Gaussed pickups 60+ years back during the original recording is beyond me. How many musicians in the late 60's and 70's had their pickups potted? Paul Kossoff standing in front of a stack of Marshall's, Eric Clapton during Cream standing in front of a stack of Marshall Majors Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Peter Green, Duane and Dicky to name a few.
If you’re going to use any significant amount of gain and/or volume, you need them wax potted. The feedback makes them unusable with a high gain amp. For purely clean playing, unpotted is acceptable.
My wax potted pickups sequels like hell. They are not properly wax potted. I hate it on high gain when on single coil neck pickup. You can get away with humbuckers. But getting away with it is not a good deal maybe it will after sometime then the coil starts to lose strength
Neck position humbucker has low output and sounds bad. Meter reads 0.0 ...heated where lead strands connect to eyelets. Pickup then works fine for 2-3 days then it goes back to low output and reads 0.0 again. What's going on? Thanks
I lol @ dylan, "eeh you could wax pot em and fix em but its easier to get another one" for pick ups . . . what if your PU choice are those Gibson pickup that sells for $250 ish USD EACH, NOT A PAIR BUT ONE, so the second one is another $250 . . . and prob DLylans or seths are cheaper and have more tone . . . the unpotted ones have more range and sound has an edge. The potted ones dull the range and take off that edge, but I suppose in a actual band, all those extra sounds from touching the guitar or moving it that unpotted catches or even catching background voices (in an intimate setting) could make unpotted ones a hassle in gigging.
Hey i have this question since ... a while. Why there isn't any pickup with one independant couple bobin / magnet per string ? is it space related, like not enough space to wind the copper to get any sound ? Or price related, because it would be too expensive to do it (6/12 winding instead of one) ? If you have a beginning of answer, thanks
Ovation Magnum basses in the 70s had a pickup exactly like that in the neck pickup, so yes it can be done. For six string guitars, if I remember correctly, there was a jazz arch top electric in the 50s(?) that had a pickup that went diagonally (tilted like a Strat bridge pickup) - the bass end of the pickup (the end under the low E string) was up near the neck, and the other end (under the high E string) was closer to the bridge; I *think* that was made up of individual coils for each string as well. I’ll see if I can find out what guitar that was.
@@darwinsaye1940 ES-300 had a really long pickup that ran diagonally from near the neck on the low E string to near the bridge on the high E string. Then the same idea was refined a bit for 1942/43 which was a smaller pickup positioned more like a Strat bridge pickup. Is that the guitar you had in mind (the 1940 ES-300)?
if it can pickup me yelling surly it can pick up the sound of the guitar pick scratching the string thats on the guitar pick side and thus i feel unpotted picks have a different attack to them
I look at it in a filosofical way. Before wax potting humans were still humanlike, natural beings. They didnt mind noises as they accepted it as part of life. Later on as humanity “evolved” se became more clinical/unnatural and had to suffocate imperfections with wax.
Yeah, it deadends them , so it dose the tone and acoustical qualities, i dont wax pot my studio guitars , but the stage guitars get double potted and a nickle cover , being on stage with the too loud crew a microphonic pickup is about useless for anything except playing dead clean and at higher volumes it starts to sqeal as well , for stage you need a dead quiet rig .
I didn’t think that I would, but I actually enjoyed the potted pickup more. ✌️😎🎸🎶🎵🎶 Also, one of my older Les Pauls has Tim Shaw pickups and I’m worried about potting them, but they are a little noisier than the others?
Unpotted of course. More dynamic .early days of Gibson's humbucker , p90 not potted. Most musicians I listened to had no potting in there pickups. Some potting on singlecoils ( very little ) is all you need.
I wonder what you’d get from an unpotted pickup built to very tight tolerances to eliminate parts rattle. Let’s say uncovered so that the diaphragm effect doesn’t exist either.
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Microphonics in a guitar pickup certainly changes the tone. You can actually hear more pick attack and acoustic type tones. Had a strat with a cheapo unwaxed pickup in it. Sounded fabulous for clean recording.
I use a Jaguar cij for the Same reason when recording
I have a non wax humbucker in a telecaster neck. The clarity and tone is breathtaking amazing
Wax potting does take some character out of it. Makes it sound a bit sterile, for lack of a better word.
I prefer the non-wax-potted version. It seem to be more dynamic. However, playing in front of a bank of amps I would want the wax potted pickup. I think stages (even for the pros) are becoming quieter and the need for wax potting has diminished a little. To me its a flavor issue. Its personal preference.
Thanks for explaining the details of factors involved, as I really enjoy hearing all the nerdy stuff. The wax potted pickup sounded a little darker, smoother, more uniform, and less dynamic. I preferred the unpotted pickup for some of the main reasons I like electric guitars - the serendipity, irregularities, and unpredictability of how they behave is inspiring. Those factors make the guitar fun, exciting, and "dangerous" to play.
The Wax Kills the Rock n Roll man !!! The noise is part of the music !!!!!!!!!
It does change the tone...non wax potted pickups sound more vibrant and dynamic...the pickups respond to the vibration of the wood...!
Not hearing enough difference to make me want to deal with the hassles of un-potted pickups. I dealt with those briefly and they were a nuisance in the real world.
Great comparison, I didn't realize how drastic the differences! At least here, I really prefer the tone of the unpotted pickup. I have unpotted Gibson P-90s, I guess that's why I like them. I knew the Somnium was handy but it's outstanding for these demos.
humbucker without cover will be less microphonic and even more dynamic and rich sounding
Not true. I have a set of vintage Gotoh hex pole humbuckers that squealed like a pig at a slaughterhouse.
@@voidburner8271 it doesn't meen that cover not forcing microphonic effect
but covers look cool
There's a lot more to potting a pickup than just holding the parts together. Those coils move that close to the magnetic source and you're getting signal. That's why at one point, some manufacturers were epoxy potting the coils. It worked. Especially in front of Marshall stacks, but it took the nuance out of it as well as the "sparkle".
Which is why I do what I can to remove as much of the wax, make them, or have them made, without potting.
Sound is vibration. The vibration of the pickup when the strings are struck is inevitable and basic science. The effect of waxing the coils is to allow the poll pieces to still "pickup" the vibration without interference from the coils vibrating and projecting that vibration which creates the "feedback".
Peter Frampton started off playing an es-335 because he loved the tone of the semi-hollow. He was disappointed when. He tried to play it live at a gig and it just feedback really bad. Someone who heard him and apparently worried in a shop or whatnot ask him if she still wanted the same basic tone but with much less feedback. And he sold him the 3 pickup black les Paul that is now famous and it cured his problem enough to permanently switch to solid bodies. Both guitars had unwaxed paf pickups. But the combo of the three ply hollow body top and the unwaxed humbucker was a common issue for many guitarist. And why many switched to solid body.
Eddie van Halen basically invented wax potting. He wax potted the PAF from his 58 es-335 and used it originally in his earlier frankenstrat. He did this because his band mates said the es-335 just looked lame and the strat sounded way to bright and thin. And eventually he created his own solution and the tone of those early creations are why his time eas so unique. Plus, the original humbucker he used (58 Gibson PAF from an es-335) was most likely an alnico ii vintage output and combined with an ash body and maple neck created a great even tone. The ash and maple tend to be scooped in tone and the alnico ii pickup is more flat toned and has less lies and high than alnico V but more pronounced mids. Combine this with a marshall super lead and that's how his brown sound tone was created. You can overwound an alnico 5 and achieve more mids and less lows that will sound similar to an alnico ii but with more natural compression.
Waxed potting effects tone. Depending on your intended results it can effect it bad or good. Pickup covers effect the tin even more. Expensive humbucker usually use nickel covers that may reduce high and upper mid frequency but brass covers or pot medal covers sound like garbage. Removal of covers makes it sound more open, bright and percussive. That can be good or bad. Slash hates covers. And I would too on those slightly overwound 42ga enamel wire alnico ii humbucker. It's slightly overwound to give more compression and tighten the lows but the open coils allow it to be bright and biting enough that it sounds awesome through a marshall style amp with a classic type of hard rock tone.
Wax potting affects tone. If you wanna here an excellent clip of unwaxed alnico ii paf pick-ups in a live setting then listen to The Allman Brothers live at Filmore East.
Duane uses les Paul's with alnico ii with covers on run thru a marshall bass head run thru a 4x12 cab loaded with d series jbl pro sound speakers. Dickey is the same except he used a marshall guitar head( jtm I think) same speakers as Duane and a 57 gold top with alnico ii paf and covers still on.
FYI: Duane always used the same pickups. So when people claim he used alnico 5 because he used a 59 Les Paul he actually traded his 57 gold top but said the pickups were not part of the deal they both kept the pickups they had so Duane actually put the 57 alnico ii paf into his 59 cherry sunburst. 59 is supposed to be the first year Gibson used alnico 5. And some still used various other alnico like some were alnico 3 and even the 61 sg(Les Paul) had alnico ii. So be weary of people who claim that Duane and dicky got thier sound from alnico 5 because it's probably a false assumption.
My two cents.
That was a lot more than two cents, bud. That was more like two bucks.
I really appreciate your time in making this. I definitely heard a subtle difference between the two. A slight drop in brightness and volume. I tend to use VH tones - I definitely need wax potting.
Eddie committed BLASPHEMY! and potted a patent number pickup from his ES335 for Frankie
If you need an excuse
I have one real Les with 498 490 & an Agile with unpotted PAFs from GFS, horses for courses.
Modern versions are potted, might just buy a potted one to swap in if needed. The intangible "mojo" is there, for sure, below stupid gain levels.
Maybe unpotted pickups & Greenback IRs make a decent case for DI guitar...sometimes 😂
Can I still get that cool "old school" standing in front of the speaker cab Feed Back with wax potted pickups.
Outstanding video explaining the difference between wax potted pickups and non wax potted pickups you have people out here who are vintage heads who are vintage connoisseurs they want every detail of the 50s and early 60s but there is a price to pay mechanical noise when you deal with those pickups that are non potted thank you for explaining this to people who might not understand this the advantages and the disadvantages..
Yes, I hear a difference. I like the potted pup better. When I was a kid, I was told only use a wax potted pup. My 1981 Vantage came with open bobbin humbuckers. Grew to hate the look. Some time in 2005 I got on this rebuild kick. Little by little I changed the worn parts & look of of the guitar. I always liked chrome humbucker look. I also stumbled on Ebay chrome humbucker rings. I never saw the look of chrome rings with chrome covers. I added these to the look; brown stained (mahogany?) wings, (now) aging yellow maple center, (mahogany?) neck, rosewood fingerboard, custom metal knobs & custom turned toggle switch tips, chromed Hipshot bridge, locking tuners & a 25 inch scale I am very happy with the voice it has now. Hint of an SG vibe. The covered & potted humbuckers have traveled in a modern hard shell case so never banged or dropped. Always in a stand or in the case so scarf joint has never been damaged. This is my only humbucker guitar, my frankenstein, rewired several times & still considering another rewiring! It's in need of a refretting & a nut job.
It has taught 3 generations to play guitar. I'll never get rid of it.
Good video with a good point. I could hear a slight difference. When you play in the real world, actually on a stage where you need a healthy stage volume, unpotted pickups can present you with some serious problems. I prefer the sound and functionality of a properly potted pickup. Using unpotted pickups makes about as much sense as "tone wood".
Maybe you can't tell the difference in tone wood because your pickups are potted? 🤔
I've played with unpotted pickups. I didn't view as an improvement. You assume much.
If it's bridge pickup, then definitely wax potted. I rise it close to the strings, so I touch it a lot. Middle pickup is nightmare by itself to be unpotted. I'd like to try unpotted, lower output neck p90 some day.
Thanks for sharing!
I shelled out an eye watering amount for ThroBak SLE 101s for my Gibson 57 Goldtop reissue. Best pickups I’ve ever played. You can hear anything and everything and it never squeals for me.
Mid six's is eye watering?
Anything over $300 for pickups is painful in my book.
2002 Gibson Les Paul standard limited edition first generation unpotted burst buckers. Never ever had a problem live on stage or any other setting with feedback,noises or unwanted overtones.
I would not have it any other way they sound f****** great
Clear and concise as always, Dylan. I get it! Easy to hear the difference. I have both in various guitars, and now I understand why they sound the way they do. I can justify using each in different situations, but now I can be more educated in the choices I make. Thanks! 👍🏻👍🏻🤘🏻✌🏻
Great stuff. It seems to me like most well-booked musicians will always go for the cleaner option. When you work as a professional, people around you won't want to put up with all the unwanted stuff they notice just because you need the things only you notice to get in the zone.
The differences between the pickups in your demo are very obvious if you're listening on good quality speakers. I have guitars with both potted and unpotted pups. There's a big difference in the way they respond both in the studio and at a gig, and to me, there are places where both types excel. For clean(ish) rhythm playing in a trio or quartet, the unpotted pickups bring a lot of added harmonics and a more (I hate using this word) organic feel that fills the available frequency space. For any heavier feel or fast tempo songs - or rhythmically complex clean-tone songs (funk), the potted pickups are more focused toward the fundamental frequency, and have a much quicker/tighter release time from the absence of resonating components. To me, it's easier to hear the differences in a mix, than soloed.
I’m liking the potted pickup, specifically it seems like it brought the guitar closer to the ear… like a change in distance despite that not being possible. The more tight signal just seems more up front, so for what I’m wanting… I like that
I have a Fender Brent Mason Signature Tele that has a non-wax potted Seymour Duncan Mini-Humbucker in the neck position, as y'all know...
I had the same issue as Dylan demonstrated at 3:30: click noise from the pick that got worse the louder I would play, squealing and howling when I used a (mild) overdrive. Not fun, really.
Then I read an article about how Brent Mason had the neck pup of his Tele wax-potted by Joe Glaser...almost 40 years after he had bought it! Now you don't tell me that his tone has changed...
So I asked my guitar techie to wax pot the Mini-Humbucker, which he did with the use of 4 to 1 paraffin to beeswax. Hand potted to perfection! And the short bath in the wax didn't alter the tone much, after all we have tone controls on our amps, don't we?
IMHO the benefits of the wax-potted vs the non-wax-potted are obvious. Just my 2 cents...
Cheers! 😊
Peavey T-60
Very hot output, no wax.
You just proved why I like it so much. I absolutely loved that guitar for metal and blues. I even wrote a riff that uses the feedback squeal.
Sadly, that guitar was stolen from me. Not sure if I’ll ever be able to get one again.
*****I would love to see a comparison between pickups of pole pieces vs blade as this style is used in the T-60. I’ve still never seen a side by side comparison video of this, using the same windings, etc.
It seemed to me that there was a tiny reduction in dynamic range. I don't think it's enough to matter in the final mix. Or rather, it's just another navel-gazing esoteric difference that only matters to guitar players.
Most times I prefer unpotted, they are more expressive. My R8 and R9 have custom buckers that are unpotted, love how I can play with feedback with them. However, for heavy distortion prefer potted.
Thanks for demonstrating the difference 👍 I prefer unpotted..
If anything, the non -wax potted sounded a bit more live to me. Could that be in the 'presence ' range of the eq
If you are wax potting your pickups to play with high gain, they changed the tone cause you are using high gain. lol Yeah, good question. And, if so what tone does one prefer?
The non-wax potted do sound brighter but they come with side-effects with feedback etc. I'd be interested to hear your take on lacquer-potted pickups. I'm guessing that they would be a middle ground in that they may just stop the outer layers from moving but the inner layers of the pup may still vibrate. Good or bad ????
The signature pups that Chris Buck uses (RadioShop), seems to be a middle ground but they don't give details about what they do ( why should they :) ).
I want to have an HSS with the middle unwaxed... Then have a pushpull to control the vol so I can control feed back live...
I only had to wax my pots when playing a loud live set. It seemed like the noise from drums and bass would make an annoying subtle resonance that drove me nuts, no one else could hear it, but waxing the pickups and good grounding did a lot. Playing in a studio (bedroom) or even with a direct injection (no amps) probably makes waxing less necessary.
I heard the dynamics diminish. I heard a missing harmonic at a really low frequency, like the wax took away some of the best part of the body of the sound, reminiscent of room sound. Def prefer unpotted but it's so subtle the wax is probably worth the tradeoff. BTW, am I the only one with the opinion that the more breakup, the harder to hear the guitar's tone? Proof of this is the fact some people use a Tele for hard distortion. Another bit of evidence is that people use hotter and hotter pickups for heavy distortion even though they sound like crap clean. I think demos should be clean unless you're demoing the breakup itself . . . but I digress. Yes potting changes it, but unpotted pickups are for light breakup and potted are for distortion imo.
Great job..again great visual of the workings of pick ups
I have unpotted pups in my first guitar and, yes, if you yell directly over them, they act as a mic. Noisey and uncontrollable at any volume over quiet bedroom levels.
To me it seemed to lose its brightness however the sound was more stable with the wax ,i liked it both with and without , it seemed to lose a bit of a tinny sound with the wax which was nice ❤🍀🕊️ however i have very old eardrums that may be seriously destroyed ,thank you very much for the demonstration 🍁
Oh wow, I didn't expect such a big difference. The potted Pickup sounds way less dynamic and clear.
A better comparison would be with a clean sound. The potted one was much more musical. It didn't have the mid-range honk or the microphonics.
love all the side noises.
I've got a Jackson guitar, and I'm pretty sure the pickups are microphonic and either poorly potted or unpotted. I get crazy low pitched feedback in front of my amp at regular rehearsal volume, and I have to turn perpendicular to the amp to get it to stop, doesn't matter where in the room I am. Also, when I talk into the pickup, it picks up my voice, which I don't think it's supposed to do.
Is there some sort of happy medium? I recently aquired an old Hondo II LP copy with a slightly chambered body and unpotted pickups. The tone is amazing, the bite and sustain are awesome and the notes just sound so sweet, i think it sounds better than an actual Gibson LP. I can't play it through my cranked supro though because it squeels so bad. I potted the pups on my epiphone LP a few months back, changed the tone a bit, stopped the squeal though.
Great video. Idk what I want. I think I'm just gonna go for it and try potting my tele pick ups. All that extraneous noise is annoying. I think the potted sound could've matched the unpotted tone with a bit of tweaking and additional gain anyway.
I recently bought a pair of Gibson T-Type unpotted humbuckers in order to upgrade my Epiphone 335 but I haven’t installed yet.
Do you recommend to open them and put a layer of wax into them?
If so, how should do I have to do it and what’s the procedure?
Parafine works the same as wax?
Definitely could hear a difference. If you play loud, get wax potted. If low gain, blues, jazz, clean and you play smaller venues wax free dynamic fun! I wonder if it can be measured on levels of waxing, like lacquer on a guitar body, doesn’t depend on what you use but how much 🤔
Everything affects tone, even the air, especially the air because thats the only way we hear tone when it vibrates air molecules, the most senstive pickup - air. Without it we wouldnt have tone, or would we? If i cupped my mouth around your ear and screamed really loud in space, could you hear it? ... you never know until you try but the question isnt weather it affects tone, everything affects tone, literaly one drop of oil will change the sound of your guitar then it was a moment before on quantum scale. The question becomes, do you notice it? And that question is so subjective there really isnt point in arguing about what someone else hears, or feels or whatever. Making the whole tone argument pretty pointless due to subjectivity. :)
My left ear being clogged affects tone
A solidly mounted, wax-potted P90 is as far as I'm happy to venture into squeal monster territory. I've played at serious volume with unpotted pickups and they're a liability. Its no fun trying find the one spot/stance that doesn't result in an all consuming, godawful howl.
You sold me on wax potted pickups. I wouldn't know if mine are wax potted or not. I have a Ibanez SR300EB and a Jackson JS3 Spectra bass. Both have humbuckers and exposed pole pieces.
Do not reply to this
@@DylanTalksTone thanks, I'm well aware of scammers. I always report it as spam to TH-cam
Thanks for the vid! Really explained things well. Couldn’t notice a difference watching thru a TV. I’m a wax potted fan as I want extraneous noise minimized whenever possible especially if a Humbuckers’ involved.
Yeah I think it may have been quieter, but not so much it was obvious. I think I like it better. Especially since I hate hearing a pick or finger striking the guitar.. I got to try this now..pex
Great Presentation Dylan. Thank you! 😎👍👏
Very similar. The non-wax potted pickup seems to have just a touch more bite, but it's not enough to make me choose one to put in my guitar.
All pickup wax potted here. Surprised how subdued the sound was.
They pickup more overtones and are more sensitive to touch when they are unpotted. But sometimes the pickups need it. It really depends how they are built and how you use them. If I were to buy a set I would want them unpotted and only wax them if they needed it. But if it sounds good, who cares, it is good.
So I'm wondering if an inputted pad sounds better ar higher guitar volumes because its actually getting sound out of the speaker to into pickup like a microphone . I know it causes feedback but is there a sweet spot. I'd love to see if the high ,low or even mid changes . Also it was hard to hear difference because there wasn't enough A to B comparison for me. Love your videos thanks for sharing.
I did hear a difference.
The potted one seemed more mid eq sounding with less sparkle, but I have 71 year ears.
The unwaxed sounded a hair more 'open' sounding, but really, the difference was so slight a lot of it may be just psychoacoustics. I can see why someone would want waxed pickups in a live situation, but Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Paul Kossoff, Jeff Beck, et. al. didn't have waxed pickups in their guitars and they did OK, even when playing at loud volumes, so I would think it's a matter of taste as well as working with whatever you have.
Hey question, just got a 2023 gibson Les paul standard 60’s, not a fan at all or the 61’ burstbuckers (unpotted like BB’s 1&2, but hotter with 61’ set being both Alnico V’s rather then Alnico II’s).
Been playing a Gib SG standard, got new back in 04’; compared to these 61’ BB’s, i much prefer the 490r/498t in my 2004 Sg standard. That said, i dont want my 60s standard LP to have that same tone as my Sg& voice. I’ve been debating grabbing a high end PAF clone pup ex,throbak SLE 101s, monty’s PAF, seth lovers), or if i should go with wax potted like a set of Symour duncan Slash 2.0 alnico II pros…seems like rhe slash wax potted do higher gain better, and some of those PAF clones like montys can get too icey/glassy on the bridge. I love playing classic rock with overdriven tones & standad gain levels , not sure if too soft for handling high gIn class rock, i love a great clean tone but id rather not need a booster since i dont play cleanvl ae much as driven. Not sure if some PAF clones will just sound very close to the 61’ Bb’s? Jw cuz both unpotted & senstive..if they sound soon then i think my favourite more mordern tone on an LP is the SD slash 2.0’s. Any input would be great ( scared to swap pups & drop $$ for pups that spund very similiar to stock 61’ burstbuckers). Thanks !
I have tinnitus, so that may be affecting my detecting the difference, but I really don’t notice one. I’m wondering if this is yet another thing that the player feels, but the audience, not so much until feedback comes into the equation.
Very good video and well done testing. Thanks for sharing this
Hi, I would like to change my pickups's (490r 498t) cover with new ones, planning to match the pole screws as well. I was wondering if I would need to wax pot the pickups? What do you think? Do I need to deep them in this case? Thanks!
I don't hear the noise on the Was Potted HB. I hear noise from Noisey Pick-up Rattles just LIke I hear Noise from Cheap Speakers. UGH . I hate cheap speakers and cheap pickups. Great VIdeo thanks. I have both types.
I, like most others here heard a nice bite in the non potted. Dig it.
I hope you will be using the whiteboard to demonstrate how the magnetic field is effected by the humbucker cover.
I just found your videos because I’m researching this topic and what do ya know, you posted this today lol.
Question, are uncovered pickups wax potted as well? I just took a cover off a a sd 59 and it’s covered in wax. It’ll obviously need removed, but am I better off just putting the cover back on and picking up an uncovered version.
You don’t need me to tell you but great video. I really enjoyed it.
In my opinion, pickups only need to be potted if one is playing at really loud stage volumes. I prefer unpotted. Many players are using multi fx pedals with monitors or in-ears. So, potting is not as necessary. Like I said, just my 2 cents.
the unpotted pick up sounded somewhat hollow and like there was a tiny bit of reverb added.
there is also epoxy glue that can be used instead of wax
some very expensive pick-up do it
Weird how all those famous guitarists used unpotted PAF's in their 'Bursts in the 60's, with PA speakers BEHIND them, loud as possible stage volume and could control the feedback and really didn't have any problems. Maybe that's why they are famous guitarists. ;)
I messed up. I thought today was the covered/uncovered pickup comparison. Was that video already posted?
If you listened to the potted one all by itself, no one would notice.
58yr old that loves no wax on certain 70-80s music but wax the single coils for blues.
Great video. Thanks Dylan
Is there any noticable difference between wax and lacquer potting?
the nuno tone is unpotted pickups too. I have one guitar with unpotted pickups and it sounds more hairy and bright, but harder to play.
Just to note, the coveted early PAF pickup tones were all made with Unwaxed pickups with inconsistent windings.
Why people seek the older overpriced PAF pickups and expect a 60+ year old low Gauss magnet loose worn winding to give a sound that they are hearing on a 60+ year old recording.
While missing the fact that the artist used new unworn full Gaussed pickups 60+ years back during the original recording is beyond me.
How many musicians in the late 60's and 70's had their pickups potted?
Paul Kossoff standing in front of a stack of Marshall's, Eric Clapton during Cream standing in front of a stack of Marshall Majors Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Peter Green, Duane and Dicky to name a few.
All «fx-s» can be used in music. I can compare it with acoustic guitar in Tommy Emmanuel’s hands. It is not just a guitar, but drum, percussion.
If you’re going to use any significant amount of gain and/or volume, you need them wax potted. The feedback makes them unusable with a high gain amp. For purely clean playing, unpotted is acceptable.
Seemed to be more overtones and sustain in the wax potted version, super slight.
pick attack is correct & slightly more treble👍
My wax potted pickups sequels like hell. They are not properly wax potted. I hate it on high gain when on single coil neck pickup. You can get away with humbuckers. But getting away with it is not a good deal maybe it will after sometime then the coil starts to lose strength
Neck position humbucker has low output and sounds bad. Meter reads 0.0 ...heated where lead strands connect to eyelets. Pickup then works fine for 2-3 days then it goes back to low output and reads 0.0 again. What's going on? Thanks
I like the unpotted slightly better. What's the difference between wax and lacquer potting?
Totally prefer the unpotted sound.
I lol @ dylan, "eeh you could wax pot em and fix em but its easier to get another one" for pick ups . . . what if your PU choice are those Gibson pickup that sells for $250 ish USD EACH, NOT A PAIR BUT ONE, so the second one is another $250 . . . and prob DLylans or seths are cheaper and have more tone . . . the unpotted ones have more range and sound has an edge. The potted ones dull the range and take off that edge, but I suppose in a actual band, all those extra sounds from touching the guitar or moving it that unpotted catches or even catching background voices (in an intimate setting) could make unpotted ones a hassle in gigging.
Hey i have this question since ... a while.
Why there isn't any pickup with one independant couple bobin / magnet per string ?
is it space related, like not enough space to wind the copper to get any sound ?
Or price related, because it would be too expensive to do it (6/12 winding instead of one) ?
If you have a beginning of answer, thanks
Ovation Magnum basses in the 70s had a pickup exactly like that in the neck pickup, so yes it can be done. For six string guitars, if I remember correctly, there was a jazz arch top electric in the 50s(?) that had a pickup that went diagonally (tilted like a Strat bridge pickup) - the bass end of the pickup (the end under the low E string) was up near the neck, and the other end (under the high E string) was closer to the bridge; I *think* that was made up of individual coils for each string as well. I’ll see if I can find out what guitar that was.
@@darwinsaye1940 ES-300 had a really long pickup that ran diagonally from near the neck on the low E string to near the bridge on the high E string. Then the same idea was refined a bit for 1942/43 which was a smaller pickup positioned more like a Strat bridge pickup. Is that the guitar you had in mind (the 1940 ES-300)?
@@JoeyJoJoJr51 Yes, that’s the one.
not the tone, but the Sustain. With mid or high gain when you do finger vibrato it sounds forever 😁
Why does it have to be wax? What's wrong with a thin piece of foam? Serious question, I haven't tried it.
if it can pickup me yelling surly it can pick up the sound of the guitar pick scratching the string thats on the guitar pick side and thus i feel unpotted picks have a different attack to them
I look at it in a filosofical way. Before wax potting humans were still humanlike, natural beings. They didnt mind noises as they accepted it as part of life. Later on as humanity “evolved” se became more clinical/unnatural and had to suffocate imperfections with wax.
Yeah, it deadends them , so it dose the tone and acoustical qualities, i dont wax pot my studio guitars , but the stage guitars get double potted and a nickle cover , being on stage with the too loud crew a microphonic pickup is about useless for anything except playing dead clean and at higher volumes it starts to sqeal as well , for stage you need a dead quiet rig .
I didn’t think that I would, but I actually enjoyed the potted pickup more.
✌️😎🎸🎶🎵🎶
Also, one of my older Les Pauls has Tim Shaw pickups and I’m worried about potting them, but they are a little noisier than the others?
Is there a way to remove the wax?
No difference in tone it's just cleaner.
great video, good explanation, thanx!
Unpotted of course. More dynamic .early days of Gibson's humbucker , p90 not potted. Most musicians I listened to had no potting in there pickups. Some potting on singlecoils ( very little ) is all you need.
is it a good idea to drown a pickup in epoxy?
Unpotted: PUNK ROCK
Wax Potted: NOT SO PUNK ROCK
Big difference there.
I wonder what you’d get from an unpotted pickup built to very tight tolerances to eliminate parts rattle. Let’s say uncovered so that the diaphragm effect doesn’t exist either.
The non wax potted definitely sounded more lively to me