That difference between historical fiction and classic literature is so important! As hard as modern authors might try to imitate the past, it's impossible to get the exact same perspective and view of someone who actually lived during that time.
I think that makes it hard to get as well. We're judging a work from at least three different standpoints, what the time was like, what we know of the time, and modern interpretation of the same.
I actually had this driven home to me from reading In Honour's Cause, a historical fiction story of the Jacobean Era, WRITTEN in the Victorian Era. It was so patently obvious that the characters were late Victorian schoolboys, not post-Tudor squires. Since then I have read all modern historical fiction with a severely critical eye, saying to myself: is this really how people behaved back then, or a modern idea of how they SHOULD have behaved, putting modern characters into vintage costumes essentially. And the best way to evaluate how true historical fiction is to its real time period is to read classic literature, where the characters are actually representative of that time period - sometimes even more so than modern academic history, never mind historical fiction.
When I was in high school in 1973, I was rereading “Persuasion” and a girl in my English class told me she “loved old novels,” and brought me two out of her collection to read. They were bodice rippers. She thought they were “just like that old one about the Civil War [Gone with the Wind] and Pride and Prejudice, except easier to read.” If your reading comprehension is poor, Harlequin romances will be an easier, if not better time.
When I read a historical novel recently, it was such a weird experience after reading a classical novel (one of Austen's books), because I felt like the writer overexplained aspects of life and I felt a bit stupid, like "why are you explaining this?" or "why do you mention this obvious fact?". When Austen assumed I knew, it immersed me in the story and in the culture of a book more then explanations of every little thing.
I'm old enough to feel that about my own times 50 years ago! When people now ask "why didn't they..." or say "back then people didnt..." We don't realize that we swim in the waters of our own time and go through life with our own assumptions and accepted conventions we don't even question.
Idk if it’s because I’m weird, but when I read passages from Jane Austen, I totally get what she’s saying with the exception of a few words. Maybe it’s a “Either you get the vibe or you don’t get the vibe” thing.
Perhaps. I felt that I got what Austen was saying the first time I read her too. Of course, I did NOT understand where all the money was coming from - so thanks for that, Ellie! I always wondered what 'the horses were needed at the farm' meant, as Mr Bennett was obviously NOT a farmer, at least not to my Little House on the Prairie-trained mind!
I think a lot depends on where you grew up and your family. If your family and home land valued tradition, then I think it is easier to understand Austen.
@@cmm5542 same here - I got the gist of pretty much everything, but was also confused about the money. Having watched some of Ellie's videos on how they made money though, that's more clear to me now
I think many can 'get the vibe' but we miss the subtleties, and you don't know what you don't know. I didn't realize how much this could be until I watched a video where someone was talking about Mansfield Park and the play arc. Until this video, I thought I understood the Georgian and Regency time periods, but I had some pretty big holes in my understanding. I didn't get just how scandalous the chosen play actually was and the details etc. I really just thought it was a tad racy as a love story and some were being typically prudish, especially Fanny. She explained that this play was something that EVERYONE in that time period knew as it was a well-known scandal. She talked about what it was really about and what the various interludes really were talking about and suddenly I GOT IT in a way I hadn't before, and it was mind blowing. Austen didn't explain much because it would have been like explaining how horses pulled carriages. COMPLETELY changed how I saw Fanny and the others. So, I think it's a mix. We can get quite a lot from context, but w/o a real understanding of the historical info, the by-the-way references, we miss more than we think. Or at least I missed more than I thought, and it made me re-evaluate my understanding of many of her other books. I don't know what I don't know and now that idea bugs the heck out of me!
@@cheerio3847 I quite agree! Knowing the historical background can COMPLETELY change how you view the story, and adds so much more depth to one's enjoyment, in my mind.
Actually, reading Jane Austen's novels underscores the extent to which people really don't change. Her novels & the novels of authors who accurately portrayed the human beings in their society (yes, Agatha Christie, of course!) have not fallen by the wayside because so much of human nature has not changed. We still have Mr. Wickhams, etc. & they're just as annoying now as they were then. The accents & clothes are different, sure, but really people themselves haven't changed. We still have Mr. Collinses who happen to know person X & won't shut up about how important person X is or how important they are because they know person X. We still have people with "affected manners" pretending to be better than they really are in order to deceive those around them. We also still have Mr. Darcys, the awkward guys who don't like dealing with large social situations.
Oh, I LOVE Agatha Christie and her 'knowledge of human nature.' She even surpasses Austen in this, to my mind, as her books involve a wider range of ages and situations than young people looking to get married. Not that Austen doesn't use this as a platform to deal with much wider issues in life - like pride and prejudice 😁.
That is one things I love about her books. She was so great at observing and describing people and their character traits. And those traits are still mostly unchanged today. It is quite fascinating.
The thing that had me fall in love with her books was reading Pride and Prejudice and realizing how completely foreign the etiquette and ways of living were to me. I loved piecing most of it together in rereading for context clues bc it was like a puzzle of a past time and place. I also love Fanny Burney for this
This is why I always prefer my Austen adaptations to be period pieces instead of modern retellings! I feel like the time period is so integral to the story, that it actually takes something away in a lot of ways when you put it in the modern era. I will say I do enjoy Clueless though!😊
Most of the UK can probably relate to Darcy's default small talk about family - even now, in awkward moments we rely on 2 things - speaking about the weather and "How is your family?" to get us through. Darcy shows awkwardness is timeless 😊
To anyone looking to read P&P for the first time, I recommend the Cambridge edition published in 2006. It has fantastic introductory material that sets the historical context, and endnotes that explain concepts (like the picturesque) and word usage that readers might find difficult.
Reading children's classics with old-fashioned language (Kidnapped, Alcott books, Swiss Family Robinson, Jungle Book, Treasure Island, Heidi, Andrew Lang and Andersen fairy tales, George Macdonald, Robinson Crusoe, Gulliver's Travels, Ivanhoe, Black Beauty, Robin Hood, Alice in Wonderland, etc) made it easy for me to read and understand Austen's books.
For those struggling with Shakespeare, my suggestion is usually the same thing: set the script aside and watch it performed instead. Watch a movie adaption, a recorded play, or a live performance with decent acting. I’ve gone with people to see college performances of Shakespeare, & my general rule of thumb for if it was done half way well is if a decent portion of the audience realizes when they’re being told something bawdy.
@@crackle6875 agreed, my kids love Shakespeare but that is because they watched the plays and movies first. Also if I found performance in Original Pronunciation we would watch those ( the vowel shifts make a difference)
I think my biggest eye-opener to understand the book was how different dancing was from today. One dance took more than half an hour and included a lot of standing around in a row while the people in front did the dancing, paraded to the back of the line, allowing the next couple to continue and so on. This is what makes it so awkward for darcy not to talk. It's not like they actually "dance" to a modern song (2-5 minutes) and sit down. They stand around opposite each other for ages 😅 this "dancing" (or rather waiting around) was the major way of getting to know people of the other sex. When everything was codified and you were never alone with a potential partner, these half hour standing parties were your chance to get to know someone. That's why it's so strange and remarkable for darcy not to dance when he is first introduced to a new group. It also explains why everyone exclaims over Bingley asking two dances from Jane. Also, do look up what an entail is, took me ages to understand how important that concept is... Edit: one of the things that still puzzle me most is what Austen means with "shrubbery". Everyone is incessantly walking in the "shrubbery" or even the "wilderness". I'm always picturing all these fine ladies in their gowns stumbling through the bushes and emerging with torn clothes and tangled hair 😅
Shrubbery & wilderness were not at all what we think of when we hear the words. Wilderness was wilder (duh!) but both were very much tamed with paths winding through them, usually wide enough for 2 to walk side by side with a “proper” distance between them. Walking with a gentleman in the shrubbery was acceptable (just), but beware of him who tries to tempt you further, into the wilderness. Unless you’re already engaged, when couples had a little more freedom. A shrubbery was likely to be below a terrace, so that couples could be overlooked & monitored. A wilderness was further away from chaperones AND possible rescuers, & therefore more risky.
What is interesting about the change in vocabulary since the Regency period is that, as a French-speaker, several of these words are actually a lot easier to understand than their modern English counterparts. Having 'affected manners' is still something said in everyday French (maybe a bit formal). You could still hear the Norman influence on the English language a lot more than today.
It's still used in America. Unfortunately just a large amount of people don't have a large vocabulary. Words like "affectation, speaking in an affected manner " a lot of people just don't understand big words. So when you speak to them, you have to dumb things down. Instead of saying "Karen speaks so affectasiously" you have to say "Karen sounds super fake". This is a big reason why people don't marry outside of their own socioeconomic class still. The way people talk between classes are very different. Though it's easier to dumb myself down, than it is for someone to fake being intelligent and well read, traveled and raised
I fell in love with Austin because of her beautifully constructed sentences. She really understands language and the way to use it to express her thoughts. To me, she is the gold standard 🤩
Hi, I’m a 62 year old guy who has mostly read nonfiction for many years (much of it on a Kindle app on my iPad). However, a couple of months ago, I started reading fiction again and I’m excited to read the ‘classics’ in nice hardcover editions that I can replace my rather disheveled, old paperback laden bookshelves with. Anyway, you hear about Jane Austin whenever classic literature is discussed, so I decided I’d better include at least one of her novels in my tbr. I’ve watched a couple of your videos and I can understand the sensibilities (sorry) of other times. My grandparents’ generation (born in early 1900’s) was much more formal (echoing the even older mores you discuss here) and each passing generation has become less restricted by societal norms. I guess I will have to suspend my preconceptions regarding ‘girl fiction’, in which I placed Jane Austin, the Bronte sisters, and Alcott. I think I can approach it from the standpoint of a woman of those times playing with the social norms and using her novels to comment on norms that cause ‘affected manners’ to exist. It’s especially cool that it is a woman of that era commentating, given the place women held in that society. I like women being empowered and view Austen’s role as social commentator from a female perspective to take a large step in that direction. At the same time, she had to work with the societal palette that was given her, much like painters in the Renaissance had to do their mastery around the religious subjects they were often forced to use. I’m debating on starting with P&P or Persuasion. I’m leaning toward P&P, as it seems to be the one the most people talk about. Sorry for this novella of a comment! I appreciate you putting this content out, to make old guys like me think!
I'm glad you mentioned the social commentary because I think a lot of people think of Austen as a writer of romantic novels and all of the comedy and subtle satire of her books go over the readers' heads.
What I love is that, it is fine if you don't understand neither the satire nor the social criticism. You can still enjoy the story as a cute love story. But the deeper you dive the more you (hopefully) understand, that P&P isn't really a love story, but a story about an observation and criticism of social problems of women and their - most of the time - helpless situation that depended on extrinsic factors like a man marrying them or your brothers taking care of them when you're getting an old maid (the horror!).
I recommend "What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew" by Daniel Pool. It's a great reference book with helpful info on the details of life to help understand the time period(s).
Just saw video. When I was growing up, it was common in my older family members to say that someone was acting "affected," meaning they were faking a behavior, or being overly dramatic. Now I can see where that phrase came from.
In the late '60s, early '70s (hippie period), we'd say something someone did was a "put on." In other words, a fake attempt to seem cooler or more with it than he really was.
I understand now, but when I first read P&P, I remember being incredibly confused about and frustrated by the family’s efforts to get Lydia to marry Mr. Wickham after they all learned how deceptive he was. I also didn’t understand why the choices Lydia made would have tainted the whole family. I now realize what a big deal personal and family reputation was at that time.
I am from Bangladesh. For the upcoming academic year I have been given to teach Pride and Prejudice to the middle school students. I was feeling a bit lost as I couldn't understand what criteria should I follow to teach such an old literature to our young generation. Your discussion helped me tremendously. You have explained with necessary points and presentations. Thank you so much.
I know it's late, but you will probably understand the concepts better than a modern English or American native. It is about caste, and inheritance Darcy is the super rich, his house would have had 100+ servants. Eldest sons inherit the land 2nd sons enter the army. The army is disliked because of bad behaviour. This is shortly after a series of wars with France and elsewhere. 3rd sons become priests. A reverend is the local priest, often paid for by the local landowner and might have 1 or 2 servants. Very much a generalisation, but this is about the rich marrying better or worse
I read the book when I was 17, I didn’t know much about England’s history. As Spanish is my first language I read the translation and I love it. I just felt what Jane wanted to transmit with her words, after a few re readings and being much more confident with my English I read it and heard it in its original language. It was a new and beautiful experience, I knew more about history and manners of that time. I think this book was meant to be loved by me, it’s a feeling that some people can’t understand but for the ones that enjoyed every particular word in this book, I believe that is like being in home. That’s for the awesome video! You are awesome! 🇦🇷✨💜
I love this comment 😊 you’re very well spoken honestly, and I think so many fans of Jane Austen have a similar feeling of it being like being “home” when you read her books. Even hundreds of years after she wrote them🙏
I remember being confused that Mr. Bennett was being so stingy about the horses. Surely, I thought, everyone got around on horses at the time. Luckily, I had a copy of The Annotated Pride & Prejudice (which I recommend). It explained that horses had a stunningly high cost of ownership. When Mr. Collins yabbers on about Lady Catherine's multiple carriages, he is merely flaunting her vast wealth, and not just obsessed with household minutiae.
Ellie, This was such a wonderful explanation! I may use it, as I have used another, to help my British Lit students understand Austen before we read "Emma". Thanks for all your hard work. I love your videos!
Oh my God! What are the odds? I started reading "Persuasion" a few hours ago, and now I am watching this video. Last year I read Pride and Prejudice and I would listen to your videos. It really helped me understand the novel. Your channel is the perfect one to provide informative and educational videos about English Regency Era or the Victorian Era. As a reader I love 19th century novels and thanks to your historical information I am able to enjoy literature ,historical and social context. Thank you Ellie!😍
A big reason I love her books is that I get to immerse myself into her era. I love the complex sentences and language, the way they saw the world (although there is no perfect, golden era), the dress, manners, hopes, etc. And even though it’s a bit like a foreign country, you still see those threads that connect all of humanity together.
I can't recommend enough the annotated versions of Austen's novels by notations by David Shapard. All of this mystery regarding manners, decorum, what words meant, etc are all explained. It really helps fill out the understanding of the novel.
Actually, if you are a careful reader and know just a bit of history, understanding Jane Austen is no problem. If a foreigner like me can do it, native English speakers can do it too.
@@julijakeit the issue isn’t if you can understand the writing. There is a lot of nuance that can be lost and it’s nice to have that deeper historical context.
As someone that is planing to read P&P, this guide is useful. I like how you weave literature and history. Thank you! Another thing that people need to account that series based on old books, is that they have more liberty on adapting the story and can change few details. That's why the P&P movie is totally different from the books.
I first read P and P as a thirteen year old. That was 50 years ago. I understood it and totally loved it then as I do now. I read and reread that book and quickly all her published works. Actually I found the Brontë works more challenging at that age than Austen. Through the years I have read all those works countless times and can never get enough. Excellent video. Thank you. 🇨🇦🇬🇧
I am 57 and read P & P when I was seventeen and like you, loved and understood it (except maybe some phrases of that time). But I also like history, especially 19th century, so I knew a bit what to expect.
In italy (where i live), "affected manners" is not at all an outdated concept 😯. We say "she is fake", "he is a fake person", we say it a lot. And it is considered a very bad personality flaw. For example, if someone is always nice to everyone, but (somehow) you know that deep inside they have an envyous nature, and would harm you if they could
That's so interesting! It really is a concept that serves a useful purpose! I'm always amazed to learn how different cultures share a lot of things in common with Jane Austen's time.
Arguably it’s something that still exists, we just use different language to describe it. We still value “authenticity” as a concept and have a lot of social conventions around that. Heck that’s where the concept of snobbery comes from: people who try to hold to standards of a superior social class in a conceited way.
@@EllieDashwood i know people that have a very strong reputation of "fakeness" and it can be socially damaging for them. Usually, they have no friends. And if you don't know them well, you want to give them a chance, so you are kind to them. But if you spend enough time with them, sooner or later you'll find out that their reputation is well deserved (they will try to sabotage you in some way) , and then people will tell you "we told you so!"
I think we still look down on “new money,” particularly ostentatious displays of wealth. There is such a clear demarcation between quietly upscale and garishly stylish, you know? Truly old wealth, breeding and manners are intrinsic in Darcy. Caroline is snooty in a new money, “affected manners” way. We ALL know people like that, don’t we? So annoying.
I remember in highschool when we were reading Macbeth one guy was really struggling. He said, "This just a bunch of words that don't make no sense." Reading Beowulf almost drove him insane. Seems like the farther back we go the harder stories are to understand. Having someone explain why older writings are hard to understand is very helpful.
Beowulf is written in a poetic form that is very old, and in the earliest version of the mixed language we would later call English, so that it has to be translated before modern English speakers can read it. *After that, it's a rippin good adventure story about defeating a monster, so, what the heck?*
@@eric2500 I enjoyed it but not everyone gets it. If someone is expecting a modern tale the context doesn't make sense. When someone explains what the culture behind the story was like it helps with understanding.
The books - their language; their sublime period wit; every aspect of their of-their-time-ness; the authorial genius that shines out in every line - are the pure source, the absolute joy. The screen adaptations (of which there have been some really superb, joyous ones - which I enjoy revisiting time and again) are absolutely nowhere, in comparison to the original source material. The novels are a gateway to so much more. Which your own fantastic TH-cam content is a testament to, and a delightful part of, Ellie. But Austen's own original prose is an unparalleled pleasure. To any who haven't read the novels yet - and to any who have read and not enjoyed, or started to read and not wanted to finish - I would say: give it another go, and/or stick with it - the rewards are boundless. My tip would be to go with the Penguin Classics editions - and to read and revel in the notes, as you go. And to pause and research, when you are sufficiently intrigued to wish to dig a little deeper. And to treat yourself to the back catalogue of Austen close readings on Dr Octavia Cox's channel, if you haven't already.
The first time I read it, I thought that I've understand everything. But every time I re-read it, I noticed a new aspect of the history and now, with your videos, I've just realized that there were many aspects that I hadn't really understand. I've been binge watching your videos and I want to re-read it again so I can pay more attention to all those historical aspects (but maybe I'm going read in Spanish as I'm currently studying Spanish hahah). Thanks for your videos!! You're awesome
I so appreciate that you are advocating the truth that people in earlier generations and in different societies thought differently, and expressed themselves differently. There’s a weird thing going on currently where people think that previous generations were just wrong, without any appreciation of the social norms of those times. We are social animals and most of us conform to the social norms of our time. Our generation will be judged by future generations, and they won’t look at things in the same way as we do currently. We will be judged.
I was reading at a college level by 12 ,partially due to AR,so I read many a classic growing up.They got me in less trouble then reading Stephen King in class.I also read dictionaries,phone books and history books for fun.It's interesting how you can shift definitions depending on the context automatically after awhile. When I was first reading them the etiquette tripped me up .I understood the basics of Victorian etiquette which helped some.Someone with some historical/cultural knowledge of the time will be able to read it but being able to understand what she's poking fun at make sit more enjoyable.
I think someone who‘s first language is not English, might have an easier time with Jane Austen and even Shakespeare. Because we are used to look up words we encounter for the first time or we just deduct from the situation.
I was just going to make the same comment. English is not my first language and I didn't find Austen particularly challenging. I think we are more used to bypassing words we are not familiar with and grasping their meaning by context clues. In general, I think it depends more on whether or not you've been often exposed to classical literature vs contemporary literature. If you've read classical novels from a young age, it's very natural to be used to different cultures and mindsets and ways of speaking, no matter the language the book is written in. It's a bit like being into fantasy novels: with every new book you have to understand how a new world works, how the magic system works, what is the geographical and political landscape of the world etc. You get used to it after a while but it's not everyone's cup of tea
When I first read the book during the beggining of the pandemic, I rarely tried to look up anything so I was majorly confused reading it through. After finishing the book, I watched the 2005 movie and so many things just clicked. If I had never watched the movie, I would have moved on from this book and never looked at it again. Now I've thoroughly enjoyed P&P for what it is and all your videos and other analysis have helped tremendously understanding this book and I've reread P&P up to 6 times now! And I want to reread it more and more! It's always so fascinating how much more I have to learn about this novel and it's makes rereading exciting each time❤️
I find it so helpful also to watch the movie, read the book, watch another adaptation, read the book again...haha it's so much fun and really ignites my curiosity!
I bounced off Austen at an early age, but was led back to her by Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin novels. "Post Captain" is the most similar, for anyone who hasn't sampled this series.
Your best video yet Ms. Dashwood! You seem so much more confident and your tie-ins with your now expansive body of work is organic and smooth! Excellent points, research, presentation, and editing work!
a truly picturesque video I can understand how many can be frustrated or confused but if you look at the big picture of telling a story about how a romance develops is what seduced me about her writing. Isn't finding true love the most mysterious, enigmatic, emotional, and fulfilling thing in life ? Her ability to paint a picture gets you inside the characters and makes everything real and come to life, makes you feel the emotions and longing to find what makes a person feel alive. Everyone wants it and everyone is looking for it and for a person to have the ability to make others feel these kinds of emotions is what makes her writing so powerful and is why her writing is timeless and common to people of all generations even if it may be somewhat frustrating or difficult to read.
I remember my first historical novel (non-English) was "With Fire and Sword" by Henry Sienkiewicz. Despite being written ~150 years ago and set in 17th cen, I enjoyed it so much, I've managed to read a total of 6 volumes of it (it's a trilogy). Which wasn't an easy task for a teenager with distaste for history. And I think, it's fair to say, that my life has changed.
I think the best examples of the difference between unaffected and affected manners can be found in Ang Lee's Sense and Sensibility (the one with Emma Thompson): Edmund Ferrars vs. Robert Ferrars, and Mrs. Dashwood (Elinor's mother) vs Fanny Dashwood. And speaking of S&S, I think Jane's greatest zing was the line about Elinor when Robert Ferrars was yammering on about the virtues of a cottage: “Elinor agreed to it all, for she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition.”
Many, many, many long years ago my high school English teacher required us to read her favorite two books, and I hated them both. A few years later, after learning more of the world and history, I reread them. I still hated “The Old Man and the Sea”, but I loved “Pride and Prejudice” so much that within the next year I had read all of Jane Austen’s works that existed in the college library. A little knowledge of history was really all that was necessary for me to appreciate her works. That is also why, although the acting and cinematography were excellent, I have never bothered to watch the 2005 film a second time. The manners, some of the costuming, and even some sets were occasionally too 21st century.
Old Man and the Sea doesn't require knowing more history as much as knowing more about the kind of wisdom we get from growing old, as it's his patience against the elements of nature. Maybe going fishing with an experienced fisher, or doing anything that requires close attention over time (embroidery, gardening, archery, etc.) would help someone who doesn't get it.
I feel like in order to understand these books and truly enjoy their full potential, you have to understand history. Specifically how life was SO different in history. if your someone who doesn't or didn't like history ,then don't read these books expecting it to be a typical modern romance novel. The fact you're picking up a book called 'Pride and Prejudice' expecting it to be anything other than HARD CORE VOCABULARY ENGLISH WORDS, you have truly fooled thy self. P.S. REALLY LOVE ALL THE VIDEOS! I have binged watched ALL YOUR VIDEOS OVER AND OVER while waiting for another upload😅 Thank you for posting such interestingly detailed videos of olden tales and times. I love stories of 17th to 19th century time. I know we romanticize those era SO MUCH but still... doesn't hurt to be a romantic fool of old stories and plots. Hehe.
As a historical writer it's an interesting balance between being matter of fact about things the characters would all know, and giving enough clues for modern readers to understand what's going on without being heavy-handed. Even something as simple as a person being called by their first name or surname (with or without an honorific) depending on who's addressing them can be confusing to some modern readers.
I *love* the writing style of classic literature, even up into the forties and fifties. Even in genre fiction such as sci fi and fantasy, I appreciate that the authors don't feel the need to explain how everything in the setting works.
Thank you for making that bridge between the Regency and modern times, for bringing clarity. I find that when we analyze what people did and how they acted in a different era we start to better understand ourselves. I see how much of the older thinking is still still left in my family that is irrelevant now. For instance, my family was fairly anti-divorce as if the divorced woman would have no choice but become a governess. I start to value more things and choices we have as women.
Irrelevant now? The concern then is the same concern today. The effect upon children. That is the basic purpose of marriage, not romance. Children are negatively affected by divorce. There is a vast body of child development research from around the world on this. I'm a retired professor. Marriage and children are a choice today, if women don't want to be "oppressed" then don't have children. Having a child is a commitment to putting their needs before your own, they had no say in the matter. Adults understand this. We are currently living in a time of many immature adults. Mental illness, self-harm, depression, suicide is happening at an alarming rate in young children. This was not the case in the past where these occurred in adolescence and at a much lower rate.
I was lucky insofar as I am a history bug, so I kind of had a grasp on some of the things. I am also old Gen X, so my grandparents were older and had 'Victorian' attitudes to marriage and relationships to a greater or lesser extent. Attitudes have changed a LOT more in the last forty years, compared to the preceding 200. However, when all is said and done, if you read between the lines you can see where Miss Jane Austen was not at all prissy. She described pre-marital cohabitation, acknowledged that homosexual acts were going on even in polite society, wasn't afraid to warn against incompatible marriage and acknowledged that slavery at least existed and funded the lifestyle of the rich. I'm not saying she had 21st century sensibilities, but neither was she shy about mentioning socially taboo reality. What I really love, though is that rather than be disowned by her family and abandoned by Whickham, Lydia's punishment is a marriage destined to be more miserable than her parents'. And you just KNOW they are both going to live for a veey long time.
Thank you for this insightful video! Currently in the middle of reading Pride and Prejudice and its a classic so far! First few chapters instantly got me hooked which is rare for books written nowadays. That's the beauty of reading a novel written centuries ago is it is so foreign to our modern age and it has me curious how people lived back then. Love the themes and background knowledge attributed to this book!
I like annotated versions of Jane Austen's books. They explain pretty much everything a modern reader could have trouble to understand: social norms, phrases, cultural references and even Austen's humour. Highly recommend them!!
Your explanation was perfect! you hit the point .. I had the same discussion with my cousin about "Pride and prejudice": he is a modern reader of modern writers (all MEN) who write best sellers based in the past (fictional of course). For this reason he finds the novel "lacking in explanation of the historical period, it only refers to rich people, it all seems very superficial to me, it is an overrated romance for women, etc.". We are italian so the whole part of history and social customs specific to any other European country is superficially studied at school (just the most important facts and wars). It has been difficult and frustrating to make him understand all the nuances that you expressed so well 😩 I was so sad he disliked the book and Jane Austen so much, because they are my favorite book and author respectively. Eh, if he could only speak and understand english I would show him this video! (I apologize in advance for my English! I did my best 🙇♀️)
Until you explained all these different aspects I hadn't realised that one of the reasons I like historical books and find them relatively easy to understand is that because of the why I was brought up I already knew these things. No wonder people thought I was a strange child!! Great video and you explain it all with such compelling enthusiasm.
That's what makes it frustrating but it also makes it fascinating. Watching people such as you open up the time so I can understand what Austen was living at her time - and every new fact I learn allows me to read the books as if they were new.
I mean, Jane Austen believed in etiquette but also satirised it sharply too. Also, in Hindu Savarna Society, it’s an ecosystem of social hierarchy based on respect with double standards which is also oppressive. The more things change, the more things remain the same.
Wow this came out at a no better time. I recently just saw the 2005 Pride and Prejudice movie for the first time and I plan on reading the book very soon. Loved this because it was so helpful and gave me so much insight!!
This is one of your best videos since it's more like an overview of the novel rather than the videos dealing with more specific aspects of life during the regency period. Those videos are great too, to be clear! Your info also can be applied to Austen's other novels as well. Thank you for the wonderfully explained synopsis of life in that time.
My Favorite thing about reading Jane Austen, is how it expands my vocabulary. I often stop and marvel and say aloud "Jane! You picked exactly the right word there! " And she did it without Google thesaurus!
I love your videos, they really open the eyes to Jane Austen that teachers when I was younger didnt. When I was a teen my mom insisted I read Pride and Prejudice and I absolutely detected it. Now as an adult I love it and really love how your channel helped really bridge that gap from historical fiction to classics.
Gurl, by accident I found one of your videos on Jane Austen and I am addicted. I can't stop watching your videos. I have not read any Jane Austen books, however, I have seen all of the movies (which of course are nothing like the books). Nevertheless, I learned so much about Jane through your videos. She was truly a master at her craft. Just so that you know a bit about your followers, I live in New Jersey. I am of Puerto Rican descent and I am an educator. I'm 62, single never married and a Latina feminist. I love all of your vids. Keep up with the great vids and I will be watching. ❤
Great video!! I’d love to know more about their ideas on picturesque, I’d never thought about this topic before and you bringing it up makes me realize I have a total lack of knowledge on the topic! Hoping you delve into it more! My biggest question when reading P&P is WHY is Darcy friends with Bingley? Did they go to college together and young Darcy just didn’t give a ____ what anyone thought of his new friend??? Does he enjoy freaking out all the old money people by bringing round his new money bff? I often wonder when he tells the Bingley’s that the Bennet girls will have a harder time marrying well because of their relations (in trade), is he also thinking of Caroline and how she got her wealth?
I had my own headcanon, where Bingley's father/ grandfather had the money to have him tutored well, & then sent him to posh schools for 'polish' & 'connections'- but because Bingley was of a lower birth-class than most of his fellow students, he was probably friendless- & maybe even bullied, but Darcy- who saw no harm in him decided he'd defend him. And they became friends because Darcy saw his qualities of character & wanted to help him along in life (Darcy was probably also quite lonely- his sister is only 16 in Pride & Prejudice, so he'd been an only child much of his life) - it would also explain why Darcy wouldn't want Bingley to make a mistake over his choice of wife...
@@OcarinaSapphr-I seriously doubt Bingely was friendless. Little kids don’t run around talking about nuances of class and trade, etc. They make friends with who is around them and come to accept them based on more primal qualities such as having a backbone, attire and good looks. Bingely’s father had the money and no doubt would have ensured his son was clothed in the best material of his time. Plus Bingely had such an outgoing countenance and positive outlook on life, I doubt he was the subject of ridicule and ostracism. People who are bullied often have a more closed off demeanor and jaded outlook on life. Later year schools were often boarding schools, so a prideful, class-aware mother and father likely wouldn’t be constantly interacting with their sons telling them who to hang out with or avoid after they placed them in school for a semester. I think the distinction mainly came about when marriage was on the table.
@@AkireMaru I'm not English, but I'm pretty sure that the public & boarding schools- as well as colleges & universities had very hierarchical structures; before the modern age, promising poorer students could attend on an early version of a scholarship, where they acted as 'servants' to senior students- I know this latter part, because I researched, to see how a poor boy {one of my minor characters, in a novel I'm working on} could attend university in the 17th c- icr when it changed from that system to the scholarship one. I'm not saying Bingley had no friends before Darcy, or that he was *constantly* bullied for his entire schooling- there would have been other kids of his own class & circumstance attending these schools. But kids _do_ imitate their elders- we see this all the time (think about all the pre-teens who learnt how to twerk *_shudder_* ) - & kids were perceived as miniature adults, until into the 19th-20th c. And I don't think there's a single 'poster-child' target for bullying...
As someone who is currently reading Pride and Prejudice this video was exactly what I needed. You explained everything so well! Thank you for making this video! :)
Something that really changed my understanding of the relationships was what people called each other. Mr and Mrs Bennet, despite years of marriage, still call each other this instead of their first names (or at least when we see them). The young people in Persuasion (Anne, the Musgrove sisters and Charles, etc) use first names, which shows they've known each other for years, and of course Mr Knightly calls his young friend Emma because he has known her since she was a child. I remember how odd it was being asked to call some of my parents' friends by their first names for the first time, and even that has changed since my own youth. Which leads to the question - at what point did Mr Bingley get allowed to called Mr Darcy "Darcy", and how would that have been offered?
okay i've had this video opened for 3 weeks now (aka how long it took me to get through p&p), and i just wanted to say THANK YOU! i went to college for teaching English and history, so something like this should have been right up my alley. but the American/British lit canon just never felt like it was for me. this was the oldest book i have read to date. I think my enjoyment of it came from a place of understanding (and not taking any of it too seriously). thank you for breaking down what i needed to know in a way i can understand. you kick ass, Ellie!
Your channel has definitely helped me understand and appreciate Austen’s books more! I remember trying to read P&P for the first time, not even understanding the first few pages. English is not my native language either. Then I decided to try it as an audiobook, so I found one and got through the story without understanding more than sixty percent of what was happening. Later, I tried the Audible version of it and that helped immensely to understand because they act it out with a cast and background ambience. (Don’t support that company anymore, but their productions of the Austen books are so good!) Now I want to try reading it again, with more knowledge of the era and developed English skills. :-)
I love your channel. I love P&P and the way it’s written. I also love historical fiction (shows and books) and your channel helps me enjoy them much more, even when they are not as accurate. It gives me comfort (and I guess understanding the themes of a book) better if I know where the author decided to deviate.
English is not my native language, but I had no difficulty in reading all of the Austen books. It's so much better than a Greek translation, because it shows the true spirit of the author. The first time is may be hard, but when you get to know the basic vocabulary, is easier and I now know what a pianoforte is😏
To be clear though, you have to go back at least to before the ancient Greeks to get to any “generation” in which the scholars believed the Earth could be flat. There were some creation myths that describe the Earth as flat but many of the cultures that told that creation myth also demonstrated knowledge of the Earth being actually round - so it is hard to really show any evidence at all that there were ever a significant number people who believed that the Earth was in reality flat. The interesting thing is that both myths - that the Earth is flat AND that “people used to believe” the Earth is flat are likely both modern inventions.
As a girl child in the 1950's I read Louisa Mae Alcott and the mannerism and social standing of her characters were different than the people I had contact with. Even though she was at least 100 years newer than Jane Austin's time, it was more formal than my time. In time I discovered Agatha Christie and Jane Austin, I'm not sure of the timing of discovering these ladies as I do not remember a time when I could not read. I just devoured it all and accepted that the manners and mode of speaking (and thinking) was very different than the people I came across daily. My eldest sister is 4 years my senior, so when she started school, I was only 2. As most children do, she would come home and play "school", Since she was the teacher, her siblings automatically became her students, as a result I learned to read before I was 3. I was reading "chapter" books by the time I was 4. From then on I just read everything and any oddities were put down to "that's how the rules work in this book". Later I could and would think more deeply of these differences, but as a young reader I fully accepted that different strokes for different folks (and times) was just the way it was. I did have to go back around age 18 and read Dr. Seuss because I didn't linger with his type of book when I was the age that they (supposedly) written for.
That last section before the outro about classic authors not needing to explain things that their readers would understand reminds me of that post about the entry for "horse" in that Polish dictionary from 1746: Horse: Everyone knows what a horse is
I started reading the book recently and for the first few chapters I found it hard to understand but after that I started to get used to the way they talk and I'm really enjoying it now!!
@@EllieDashwood Have you ever seen the interview with the actress who played Mrs Bennet in the 1995 BBC mini-séries speaking about how difficult it was to get the language and cadence down properly, and how the director insisted every word be perfect?
Great video! What has always confused my most about the book is whether Elizabeth really loves Mr. Darcy and you've answered that question well in another video. I all comes down to understanding how people thought in the Regency Era, which is so fascinating! And makes me wonder what people will think of us in 200 years...
Thanks for being honest about Austen's works being such a challenge to the modern reader. when i first started reading Austen, I totally needed a Regency dictionary . Every time a character opened their mouth, i misunderstood what it conveyed about their character, because i didn't realise how many words have since changed their meaning. To read Austen with understanding, you have to learn a whole specialised vocabulary.
Just saw this video. I always have to reacclimate myself to the way Jane Austen writes and the way the people talk. Kind of like listening to a person with a strong accent. It takes a minute but then I get it!
I've recently started reading the book and i feel like if I hadn't watched so many of your videos before I would've been so confused, and I'm definitely grateful to be reading it in Spanish too bc the English would've confused me, love your videos Ellie!
I clicked on this thinking I would already know all of these things since I've been a fan of Jane Austen for about 15 years 😮 I was wrong. I'm going to sound so dumb but I thought the girl's dowry was just that amount of money and that's it. Like whoever married Georgiana just got 30k and that's it. Until today I never knew that these were investments that would give a yearly income to the family. This makes so much sense and explains so much 😭😭😭 thank you Ellie!!!
You might enjoy watching Ellie's "Darcy and Elizabeth Had a Prenup?" video from about 6 months ago. It was fascinating info on how women's marriage settlements were negotiated and enforced -- and much more. It is probably my favorite of Ellie's videos.
Oops. I did know it all, or the vast majority. I’m a freak of the 20th century. Or maybe I’m just old, with old-fashioned parents & a King James Bible upbringing. I still loved Ellie’s presentation, it clarified everything for me, too.
I love the way Jane Austen writes. I love her humour and how subtle and ironic it is. Something I never realised I was unclear about until I watched your videos was entails. I think I must have “gap filled” what was meant by “entailed away” and just assumed “entail” equalled inherit. So that was interesting to learn.
I had no trouble with the concept of entails (thanks, I think, to Georgette Heyer) but couldn’t work out how an entail could go to someone with a different surname & why it wouldn’t devolve to a little Bingley or Darcy boy. Then I found out about people taking adoptive surnames & that explained it. Kinda. Of course, the entail may also have been set up recently enough that those involved were specifically named.
You should do a video translating a bunch of words/phrases used in that time period to today, like you did in the first section of this video :D LOVE U ELLIEEEE
I have indulged into learning English, and I read the book (an easier one, for language learners) but actually this video helped me a lot. And your accent/pronounciation is really nice and useful for me Thanks for this content😊
English isn’t my first language and it took me quite some time to get through her books. But I enjoy history so I like to figure out how they were living back then and why people are behaving a certain way. Listening to the audiobooks works better for me though.
Inspired by P&P, I've been reading Fordyce's sermons. It's a challenge! Putting my mindset from the perspective of a clergy man is not a natural habit of mine. Once I got that going, it was much easier, however, all of the flowery prose can make the reading a bit tedious. It's still a pleasant read when taken in the context of P&P. Thank you for your videos!
I remember when I was 16 and decided to pick up a classic book to read as leisure, I chose P&P but, after a couple of weeks, I gave up on it and hasn't touched it since because I thought it was so confusing. The thing is, I chose to read it in english but english isn't my mother tongue so even though I had no problem reading modern fiction in english, this one was really hard. Now, over 5 years later, I've just finished Emma (which I did read it translated to my language) and loved it - understood everything. I did read Little Women last year in english and I loved it too! Understood everything, but I guess since it's a children's book, it's easier to understand
This is one thing about the 2005 version that drew me to the novels. Though I certainly enjoyed US and British 19th century literature before then, it gave me a "leg up" understanding the early 19th century of Jane Austen, as that movie was designed to be innately understood by 21-st century viewers.
As a non-English speaker, I have to say, I much prefer to read Jane Austen in original. It's not that translation is bad - I'm not the judge of that. When translated, the conversations seem to me stiff and affected, while in English they sound like a pleasant composition. It was so much fun to guess from the context, what a particular word means (believe me, there was no "vex" in my dictionary and google was not that popular, when I first read P&P)
My favourite literary belonging is a 797 page annoyed copy of Pride and Prejudice. It’s full of information about social mores, politics and historical notes
I really appreciated your explanation of "picturesque." A very important concept for modern readers to understand is the absence of photography, pictures, or moving pictures in those days required writers to "paint a picture" of what is happening in the story in a way that will help the reader understand and see it in their mind. The language is descriptive, wordy, and probably a lot more scholarly than was used in everyday language. Writing English, and orally speaking English are two different things. We don't have any audio recordings of how that upper class society actually spoke to each other, but I daresay, it may or may not have been verbatim like it was, unless you were quite book learned. Keep in mind, The Bennet family did not have a governess nor were sent to school. They learned on their own, with their parents as an example. How well spoken were they? My evidence, how did Lydia and Mary usually speak, compared to Elizabeth and Jane?
Your videos helped understand better Jane austens books, mainly, Emma, because rank differences are specially important in this book, i think. And also i LOVED your video on Mary Bennet, it's WONDERFUL, and helped me understand Mary Bennet itsel, who i pitied for being injusticed, and also helped me understand why and i am not so fond of Fanny Price.
I like your use of "The past is a foreign country"! I think I must have unconsciously been using that approach when reading classic literature, because I tend to approach it like reading a book from a different culture: I may or may not end up enjoying the story or the style*, but I know going in that I'm probably going to have to figure out what certain phrases mean from context, or google some historical events the author assumes I know about, or whatever. But the "foreignness" can be part of the charm! I actually don't like contemporary American or British novels much, because I get bored; I WANT a book to take me to a different place or time. *For instance, I am NOT of fan of the 1800s novel style where the author goes on a chapter-length digression about how the Paris sewers were built or how to butcher a whale or what their theory of history was. Not saying 'Les Miserable' is a bad book, not at all...just that I don't enjoy having the flow of the plot interrupted in that manner. If I wanted to read a history textbook, I'd read a history textbook, Victor!
I read a lot of historical novels. I look up Google maps all the time to place places (so to speak). Usually with a Google page open to check obsolete words, see the difference between (say) a curricle & a phaeton, & especially to say, “Hang on, you got that bit wrong! No way would a Regency debutante be that … gullible … outrageous … whatever!”
That difference between historical fiction and classic literature is so important! As hard as modern authors might try to imitate the past, it's impossible to get the exact same perspective and view of someone who actually lived during that time.
I think that makes it hard to get as well. We're judging a work from at least three different standpoints, what the time was like, what we know of the time, and modern interpretation of the same.
I actually had this driven home to me from reading In Honour's Cause, a historical fiction story of the Jacobean Era, WRITTEN in the Victorian Era. It was so patently obvious that the characters were late Victorian schoolboys, not post-Tudor squires. Since then I have read all modern historical fiction with a severely critical eye, saying to myself: is this really how people behaved back then, or a modern idea of how they SHOULD have behaved, putting modern characters into vintage costumes essentially. And the best way to evaluate how true historical fiction is to its real time period is to read classic literature, where the characters are actually representative of that time period - sometimes even more so than modern academic history, never mind historical fiction.
When I was in high school in 1973, I was rereading “Persuasion” and a girl in my English class told me she “loved old novels,” and brought me two out of her collection to read. They were bodice rippers. She thought they were “just like that old one about the Civil War [Gone with the Wind] and Pride and Prejudice, except easier to read.”
If your reading comprehension is poor, Harlequin romances will be an easier, if not better time.
When I read a historical novel recently, it was such a weird experience after reading a classical novel (one of Austen's books), because I felt like the writer overexplained aspects of life and I felt a bit stupid, like "why are you explaining this?" or "why do you mention this obvious fact?". When Austen assumed I knew, it immersed me in the story and in the culture of a book more then explanations of every little thing.
I'm old enough to feel that about my own times 50 years ago! When people now ask "why didn't they..." or say "back then people didnt..." We don't realize that we swim in the waters of our own time and go through life with our own assumptions and accepted conventions we don't even question.
Idk if it’s because I’m weird, but when I read passages from Jane Austen, I totally get what she’s saying with the exception of a few words. Maybe it’s a “Either you get the vibe or you don’t get the vibe” thing.
Perhaps. I felt that I got what Austen was saying the first time I read her too. Of course, I did NOT understand where all the money was coming from - so thanks for that, Ellie! I always wondered what 'the horses were needed at the farm' meant, as Mr Bennett was obviously NOT a farmer, at least not to my Little House on the Prairie-trained mind!
I think a lot depends on where you grew up and your family.
If your family and home land valued tradition, then I think it is easier to understand Austen.
@@cmm5542 same here - I got the gist of pretty much everything, but was also confused about the money. Having watched some of Ellie's videos on how they made money though, that's more clear to me now
I think many can 'get the vibe' but we miss the subtleties, and you don't know what you don't know. I didn't realize how much this could be until I watched a video where someone was talking about Mansfield Park and the play arc. Until this video, I thought I understood the Georgian and Regency time periods, but I had some pretty big holes in my understanding. I didn't get just how scandalous the chosen play actually was and the details etc. I really just thought it was a tad racy as a love story and some were being typically prudish, especially Fanny. She explained that this play was something that EVERYONE in that time period knew as it was a well-known scandal. She talked about what it was really about and what the various interludes really were talking about and suddenly I GOT IT in a way I hadn't before, and it was mind blowing. Austen didn't explain much because it would have been like explaining how horses pulled carriages. COMPLETELY changed how I saw Fanny and the others.
So, I think it's a mix. We can get quite a lot from context, but w/o a real understanding of the historical info, the by-the-way references, we miss more than we think. Or at least I missed more than I thought, and it made me re-evaluate my understanding of many of her other books. I don't know what I don't know and now that idea bugs the heck out of me!
@@cheerio3847 I quite agree! Knowing the historical background can COMPLETELY change how you view the story, and adds so much more depth to one's enjoyment, in my mind.
Actually, reading Jane Austen's novels underscores the extent to which people really don't change. Her novels & the novels of authors who accurately portrayed the human beings in their society (yes, Agatha Christie, of course!) have not fallen by the wayside because so much of human nature has not changed. We still have Mr. Wickhams, etc. & they're just as annoying now as they were then. The accents & clothes are different, sure, but really people themselves haven't changed. We still have Mr. Collinses who happen to know person X & won't shut up about how important person X is or how important they are because they know person X. We still have people with "affected manners" pretending to be better than they really are in order to deceive those around them. We also still have Mr. Darcys, the awkward guys who don't like dealing with large social situations.
Yeah, but now we don't have to put up with them if we don't need to.
@@astrothsknot 🤣👍. Not unless they're family, anyway...
Oh, I LOVE Agatha Christie and her 'knowledge of human nature.' She even surpasses Austen in this, to my mind, as her books involve a wider range of ages and situations than young people looking to get married. Not that Austen doesn't use this as a platform to deal with much wider issues in life - like pride and prejudice 😁.
@@astrothsknot 😂 cute fantasy. Of course we have to put up with them. Until we can send them to the moon.
That is one things I love about her books. She was so great at observing and describing people and their character traits. And those traits are still mostly unchanged today. It is quite fascinating.
The thing that had me fall in love with her books was reading Pride and Prejudice and realizing how completely foreign the etiquette and ways of living were to me. I loved piecing most of it together in rereading for context clues bc it was like a puzzle of a past time and place. I also love Fanny Burney for this
This is why I always prefer my Austen adaptations to be period pieces instead of modern retellings! I feel like the time period is so integral to the story, that it actually takes something away in a lot of ways when you put it in the modern era. I will say I do enjoy Clueless though!😊
Same!!! Sometimes I wish some of the social etiquette would come back
@@jessica_jam4386100% percent. I love Clueless & (on a side note) Easy A. Maybe because they both got to the heart of the story?
Most of the UK can probably relate to Darcy's default small talk about family - even now, in awkward moments we rely on 2 things - speaking about the weather and "How is your family?" to get us through. Darcy shows awkwardness is timeless 😊
😂😂😂 He does
Here in the Midwest, if you DON'T talk about the weather, you're weird and we don't know how to deal with you .
To anyone looking to read P&P for the first time, I recommend the Cambridge edition published in 2006. It has fantastic introductory material that sets the historical context, and endnotes that explain concepts (like the picturesque) and word usage that readers might find difficult.
Reading children's classics with old-fashioned language (Kidnapped, Alcott books, Swiss Family Robinson, Jungle Book, Treasure Island, Heidi, Andrew Lang and Andersen fairy tales, George Macdonald, Robinson Crusoe, Gulliver's Travels, Ivanhoe, Black Beauty, Robin Hood, Alice in Wonderland, etc) made it easy for me to read and understand Austen's books.
Exactly the same for me here. Took a bit more work for Shakespeare though 😄.
@@cmm5542 eeh, Shakespeare is almost as bad as The Canterbury Tales in my book. don't read them for fun tho I know the plots and stories.
@@oxoelfoxo Took me a couple years of diligently looking up every text note before I started getting the puns!
For those struggling with Shakespeare, my suggestion is usually the same thing: set the script aside and watch it performed instead. Watch a movie adaption, a recorded play, or a live performance with decent acting. I’ve gone with people to see college performances of Shakespeare, & my general rule of thumb for if it was done half way well is if a decent portion of the audience realizes when they’re being told something bawdy.
@@crackle6875 agreed, my kids love Shakespeare but that is because they watched the plays and movies first. Also if I found performance in Original Pronunciation we would watch those ( the vowel shifts make a difference)
I think my biggest eye-opener to understand the book was how different dancing was from today. One dance took more than half an hour and included a lot of standing around in a row while the people in front did the dancing, paraded to the back of the line, allowing the next couple to continue and so on. This is what makes it so awkward for darcy not to talk. It's not like they actually "dance" to a modern song (2-5 minutes) and sit down. They stand around opposite each other for ages 😅 this "dancing" (or rather waiting around) was the major way of getting to know people of the other sex. When everything was codified and you were never alone with a potential partner, these half hour standing parties were your chance to get to know someone. That's why it's so strange and remarkable for darcy not to dance when he is first introduced to a new group. It also explains why everyone exclaims over Bingley asking two dances from Jane.
Also, do look up what an entail is, took me ages to understand how important that concept is...
Edit: one of the things that still puzzle me most is what Austen means with "shrubbery". Everyone is incessantly walking in the "shrubbery" or even the "wilderness". I'm always picturing all these fine ladies in their gowns stumbling through the bushes and emerging with torn clothes and tangled hair 😅
Shrubbery & wilderness were not at all what we think of when we hear the words. Wilderness was wilder (duh!) but both were very much tamed with paths winding through them, usually wide enough for 2 to walk side by side with a “proper” distance between them. Walking with a gentleman in the shrubbery was acceptable (just), but beware of him who tries to tempt you further, into the wilderness. Unless you’re already engaged, when couples had a little more freedom.
A shrubbery was likely to be below a terrace, so that couples could be overlooked & monitored. A wilderness was further away from chaperones AND possible rescuers, & therefore more risky.
@@judithstrachan9399 Awesome. That was a really helpful explanation. Especially the part with the terrace. :)
What is interesting about the change in vocabulary since the Regency period is that, as a French-speaker, several of these words are actually a lot easier to understand than their modern English counterparts. Having 'affected manners' is still something said in everyday French (maybe a bit formal). You could still hear the Norman influence on the English language a lot more than today.
It's still used in America. Unfortunately just a large amount of people don't have a large vocabulary. Words like "affectation, speaking in an affected manner " a lot of people just don't understand big words. So when you speak to them, you have to dumb things down. Instead of saying "Karen speaks so affectasiously" you have to say "Karen sounds super fake". This is a big reason why people don't marry outside of their own socioeconomic class still. The way people talk between classes are very different. Though it's easier to dumb myself down, than it is for someone to fake being intelligent and well read, traveled and raised
I fell in love with Austin because of her beautifully constructed sentences. She really understands language and the way to use it to express her thoughts. To me, she is the gold standard 🤩
Ellie Dashwood doing God’s work by making a ‘Jane Austen for Beginners’ video. We Stan it in this house 🔥
o.o ?
Hi, I’m a 62 year old guy who has mostly read nonfiction for many years (much of it on a Kindle app on my iPad). However, a couple of months ago, I started reading fiction again and I’m excited to read the ‘classics’ in nice hardcover editions that I can replace my rather disheveled, old paperback laden bookshelves with.
Anyway, you hear about Jane Austin whenever classic literature is discussed, so I decided I’d better include at least one of her novels in my tbr. I’ve watched a couple of your videos and I can understand the sensibilities (sorry) of other times. My grandparents’ generation (born in early 1900’s) was much more formal (echoing the even older mores you discuss here) and each passing generation has become less restricted by societal norms.
I guess I will have to suspend my preconceptions regarding ‘girl fiction’, in which I placed Jane Austin, the Bronte sisters, and Alcott. I think I can approach it from the standpoint of a woman of those times playing with the social norms and using her novels to comment on norms that cause ‘affected manners’ to exist. It’s especially cool that it is a woman of that era commentating, given the place women held in that society. I like women being empowered and view Austen’s role as social commentator from a female perspective to take a large step in that direction.
At the same time, she had to work with the societal palette that was given her, much like painters in the Renaissance had to do their mastery around the religious subjects they were often forced to use.
I’m debating on starting with P&P or Persuasion. I’m leaning toward P&P, as it seems to be the one the most people talk about.
Sorry for this novella of a comment! I appreciate you putting this content out, to make old guys like me think!
I'm glad you mentioned the social commentary because I think a lot of people think of Austen as a writer of romantic novels and all of the comedy and subtle satire of her books go over the readers' heads.
Her satire is so great! 🙂
I guess people don't really get satire, then, as the very first line of P&P is one of the best-done satirical lines in fiction. And is known to be so.
Even her "romance" is social commentary. She's building her imagined perfect society in which Elizabeths find their Darcys.
Right? Whenever I hear her writing, half the time I picture a young woman with an amused smile telling me these things.
What I love is that, it is fine if you don't understand neither the satire nor the social criticism. You can still enjoy the story as a cute love story.
But the deeper you dive the more you (hopefully) understand, that P&P isn't really a love story, but a story about an observation and criticism of social problems of women and their - most of the time - helpless situation that depended on extrinsic factors like a man marrying them or your brothers taking care of them when you're getting an old maid (the horror!).
I guess I am very ancient, never had problems reading Austen's books and thoroughly enjoying them
I recommend "What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew" by Daniel Pool. It's a great reference book with helpful info on the details of life to help understand the time period(s).
That book is excellent.
I was going to recommend this, but you beat me to it. Great for all 19th C British literature
Good suggestion!
Such a great book!
I love this book! I borrowed it from the library so often I ended up buying a copy!
Just saw video. When I was growing up, it was common in my older family members to say that someone was acting "affected," meaning they were faking a behavior, or being overly dramatic. Now I can see where that phrase came from.
In the late '60s, early '70s (hippie period), we'd say something someone did was a "put on." In other words, a fake attempt to seem cooler or more with it than he really was.
I understand now, but when I first read P&P, I remember being incredibly confused about and frustrated by the family’s efforts to get Lydia to marry Mr. Wickham after they all learned how deceptive he was. I also didn’t understand why the choices Lydia made would have tainted the whole family. I now realize what a big deal personal and family reputation was at that time.
To be fair, Mr. Darcy tried to persuade her to leave him and go back to her family, but she was determined to marry him...
I don't know, maybe it's something connected with age and experiencing more stories? This was quite understandable for me but I read P&P when I was 37
I am from Bangladesh. For the upcoming academic year I have been given to teach Pride and Prejudice to the middle school students. I was feeling a bit lost as I couldn't understand what criteria should I follow to teach such an old literature to our young generation.
Your discussion helped me tremendously. You have explained with necessary points and presentations.
Thank you so much.
Well done, and enjoy your new adventure.
I know it's late, but you will probably understand the concepts better than a modern English or American native.
It is about caste, and inheritance Darcy is the super rich, his house would have had 100+ servants. Eldest sons inherit the land
2nd sons enter the army. The army is disliked because of bad behaviour. This is shortly after a series of wars with France and elsewhere.
3rd sons become priests. A reverend is the local priest, often paid for by the local landowner and might have 1 or 2 servants.
Very much a generalisation, but this is about the rich marrying better or worse
I read the book when I was 17, I didn’t know much about England’s history. As Spanish is my first language I read the translation and I love it. I just felt what Jane wanted to transmit with her words, after a few re readings and being much more confident with my English I read it and heard it in its original language. It was a new and beautiful experience, I knew more about history and manners of that time. I think this book was meant to be loved by me, it’s a feeling that some people can’t understand but for the ones that enjoyed every particular word in this book, I believe that is like being in home.
That’s for the awesome video! You are awesome!
🇦🇷✨💜
I love this comment 😊 you’re very well spoken honestly, and I think so many fans of Jane Austen have a similar feeling of it being like being “home” when you read her books. Even hundreds of years after she wrote them🙏
I remember being confused that Mr. Bennett was being so stingy about the horses. Surely, I thought, everyone got around on horses at the time. Luckily, I had a copy of The Annotated Pride & Prejudice (which I recommend). It explained that horses had a stunningly high cost of ownership. When Mr. Collins yabbers on about Lady Catherine's multiple carriages, he is merely flaunting her vast wealth, and not just obsessed with household minutiae.
Ellie, This was such a wonderful explanation! I may use it, as I have used another, to help my British Lit students understand Austen before we read "Emma". Thanks for all your hard work. I love your videos!
Aw! Thanks so much for all your hard work! Being a teacher is not an easy job. Thanks so much for teaching Austen to new generations. 😃😃😃
👍🧡
Oh my God! What are the odds? I started reading "Persuasion" a few hours ago, and now I am watching this video. Last year I read Pride and Prejudice and I would listen to your videos. It really helped me understand the novel. Your channel is the perfect one to provide informative and educational videos about English Regency Era or the Victorian Era. As a reader I love 19th century novels and thanks to your historical information I am able to enjoy literature ,historical and social context. Thank you Ellie!😍
Aw, thank you! I'm so glad my channel is helpful! 😃😃😃 And I hope you enjoy Persuasion! It's so good.
A big reason I love her books is that I get to immerse myself into her era. I love the complex sentences and language, the way they saw the world (although there is no perfect, golden era), the dress, manners, hopes, etc. And even though it’s a bit like a foreign country, you still see those threads that connect all of humanity together.
I can't recommend enough the annotated versions of Austen's novels by notations by David Shapard. All of this mystery regarding manners, decorum, what words meant, etc are all explained. It really helps fill out the understanding of the novel.
Actually, if you are a careful reader and know just a bit of history, understanding Jane Austen is no problem. If a foreigner like me can do it, native English speakers can do it too.
I really liked those editions. I think the focus was on the historical context rather than literary analysis, which I liked.
@@julijakeit the issue isn’t if you can understand the writing. There is a lot of nuance that can be lost and it’s nice to have that deeper historical context.
As someone that is planing to read P&P, this guide is useful. I like how you weave literature and history. Thank you!
Another thing that people need to account that series based on old books, is that they have more liberty on adapting the story and can change few details. That's why the P&P movie is totally different from the books.
I first read P and P as a thirteen year old. That was 50 years ago. I understood it and totally loved it then as I do now. I read and reread that book and quickly all her published works. Actually I found the Brontë works more challenging at that age than Austen. Through the years I have read all those works countless times and can never get enough. Excellent video. Thank you. 🇨🇦🇬🇧
I am 57 and read P & P when I was seventeen and like you, loved and understood it (except maybe some phrases of that time).
But I also like history, especially 19th century, so I knew a bit what to expect.
In italy (where i live), "affected manners" is not at all an outdated concept 😯. We say "she is fake", "he is a fake person", we say it a lot. And it is considered a very bad personality flaw. For example, if someone is always nice to everyone, but (somehow) you know that deep inside they have an envyous nature, and would harm you if they could
That's so interesting! It really is a concept that serves a useful purpose! I'm always amazed to learn how different cultures share a lot of things in common with Jane Austen's time.
Arguably it’s something that still exists, we just use different language to describe it. We still value “authenticity” as a concept and have a lot of social conventions around that. Heck that’s where the concept of snobbery comes from: people who try to hold to standards of a superior social class in a conceited way.
@@EllieDashwood i know people that have a very strong reputation of "fakeness" and it can be socially damaging for them. Usually, they have no friends. And if you don't know them well, you want to give them a chance, so you are kind to them. But if you spend enough time with them, sooner or later you'll find out that their reputation is well deserved (they will try to sabotage you in some way) , and then people will tell you "we told you so!"
I think we still look down on “new money,” particularly ostentatious displays of wealth. There is such a clear demarcation between quietly upscale and garishly stylish, you know? Truly old wealth, breeding and manners are intrinsic in Darcy. Caroline is snooty in a new money, “affected manners” way. We ALL know people like that, don’t we? So annoying.
I remember in highschool when we were reading Macbeth one guy was really struggling. He said, "This just a bunch of words that don't make no sense." Reading Beowulf almost drove him insane. Seems like the farther back we go the harder stories are to understand. Having someone explain why older writings are hard to understand is very helpful.
He should have been grateful that he attended a school that actually taught _Beowulf._ I didn't.
Beowulf was a lot to understand
Beowulf is written in a poetic form that is very old, and in the earliest version of the mixed language we would later call English, so that it has to be translated before modern English speakers can read it.
*After that, it's a rippin good adventure story about defeating a monster, so, what the heck?*
@@eric2500 I enjoyed it but not everyone gets it. If someone is expecting a modern tale the context doesn't make sense. When someone explains what the culture behind the story was like it helps with understanding.
@@eric2500 Actually, defeating THREE monsters: Grendel, its mother and the dragon at the end.
The books - their language; their sublime period wit; every aspect of their of-their-time-ness; the authorial genius that shines out in every line - are the pure source, the absolute joy.
The screen adaptations (of which there have been some really superb, joyous ones - which I enjoy revisiting time and again) are absolutely nowhere, in comparison to the original source material.
The novels are a gateway to so much more. Which your own fantastic TH-cam content is a testament to, and a delightful part of, Ellie. But Austen's own original prose is an unparalleled pleasure.
To any who haven't read the novels yet - and to any who have read and not enjoyed, or started to read and not wanted to finish - I would say: give it another go, and/or stick with it - the rewards are boundless.
My tip would be to go with the Penguin Classics editions - and to read and revel in the notes, as you go. And to pause and research, when you are sufficiently intrigued to wish to dig a little deeper. And to treat yourself to the back catalogue of Austen close readings on Dr Octavia Cox's channel, if you haven't already.
The first time I read it, I thought that I've understand everything. But every time I re-read it, I noticed a new aspect of the history and now, with your videos, I've just realized that there were many aspects that I hadn't really understand. I've been binge watching your videos and I want to re-read it again so I can pay more attention to all those historical aspects (but maybe I'm going read in Spanish as I'm currently studying Spanish hahah). Thanks for your videos!! You're awesome
I so appreciate that you are advocating the truth that people in earlier generations and in different societies thought differently, and expressed themselves differently. There’s a weird thing going on currently where people think that previous generations were just wrong, without any appreciation of the social norms of those times. We are social animals and most of us conform to the social norms of our time.
Our generation will be judged by future generations, and they won’t look at things in the same way as we do currently. We will be judged.
I was reading at a college level by 12 ,partially due to AR,so I read many a classic growing up.They got me in less trouble then reading Stephen King in class.I also read dictionaries,phone books and history books for fun.It's interesting how you can shift definitions depending on the context automatically after awhile.
When I was first reading them the etiquette tripped me up .I understood the basics of Victorian etiquette which helped some.Someone with some historical/cultural knowledge of the time will be able to read it but being able to understand what she's poking fun at make sit more enjoyable.
I think someone who‘s first language is not English, might have an easier time with Jane Austen and even Shakespeare. Because we are used to look up words we encounter for the first time or we just deduct from the situation.
I was just going to make the same comment. English is not my first language and I didn't find Austen particularly challenging. I think we are more used to bypassing words we are not familiar with and grasping their meaning by context clues. In general, I think it depends more on whether or not you've been often exposed to classical literature vs contemporary literature. If you've read classical novels from a young age, it's very natural to be used to different cultures and mindsets and ways of speaking, no matter the language the book is written in. It's a bit like being into fantasy novels: with every new book you have to understand how a new world works, how the magic system works, what is the geographical and political landscape of the world etc. You get used to it after a while but it's not everyone's cup of tea
As a Bachelor of Letters I really like you explain things in a simple way without being condescending, it is trully a service of benefit for everyone
When I first read the book during the beggining of the pandemic, I rarely tried to look up anything so I was majorly confused reading it through. After finishing the book, I watched the 2005 movie and so many things just clicked. If I had never watched the movie, I would have moved on from this book and never looked at it again.
Now I've thoroughly enjoyed P&P for what it is and all your videos and other analysis have helped tremendously understanding this book and I've reread P&P up to 6 times now! And I want to reread it more and more! It's always so fascinating how much more I have to learn about this novel and it's makes rereading exciting each time❤️
Yay! I'm so glad you enjoy P&P!!! It can be hard to get into at first but once it clicks it's way too addictive! 😂
I find it so helpful also to watch the movie, read the book, watch another adaptation, read the book again...haha it's so much fun and really ignites my curiosity!
Granted, I'm pretty old but I'm not THAT old and the term "affected manners" or even just"affected" was common and widely understood when I was young.
Ditto
I bounced off Austen at an early age, but was led back to her by Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin novels. "Post Captain" is the most similar, for anyone who hasn't sampled this series.
🙌Well, done, it is so important for readers to put down their 21st century lense when reading her work. Thank you for this excellent explanation.
Aw, thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed it!!!
Your best video yet Ms. Dashwood!
You seem so much more confident and your tie-ins with your now expansive body of work is organic and smooth! Excellent points, research, presentation, and editing work!
Awwwww! Thank you so much!!!
a truly picturesque video
I can understand how many can be frustrated or confused but if you look at the big picture of telling a story about how a romance develops is what seduced me about her writing. Isn't finding true love the most mysterious, enigmatic, emotional, and fulfilling thing in life ?
Her ability to paint a picture gets you inside the characters and makes everything real and come to life, makes you feel the emotions and longing to find what makes a person feel alive.
Everyone wants it and everyone is looking for it and for a person to have the ability to make others feel these kinds of emotions is what makes her writing so powerful and is why her writing is timeless and common to people of all generations even if it may be somewhat frustrating or difficult to read.
I remember my first historical novel (non-English) was "With Fire and Sword" by Henry Sienkiewicz.
Despite being written ~150 years ago and set in 17th cen, I enjoyed it so much, I've managed to read a total of 6 volumes of it (it's a trilogy). Which wasn't an easy task for a teenager with distaste for history. And I think, it's fair to say, that my life has changed.
I think the best examples of the difference between unaffected and affected manners can be found in Ang Lee's Sense and Sensibility (the one with Emma Thompson): Edmund Ferrars vs. Robert Ferrars, and Mrs. Dashwood (Elinor's mother) vs Fanny Dashwood.
And speaking of S&S, I think Jane's greatest zing was the line about Elinor when Robert Ferrars was yammering on about the virtues of a cottage: “Elinor agreed to it all, for she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition.”
Many, many, many long years ago my high school English teacher required us to read her favorite two books, and I hated them both. A few years later, after learning more of the world and history, I reread them. I still hated “The Old Man and the Sea”, but I loved “Pride and Prejudice” so much that within the next year I had read all of Jane Austen’s works that existed in the college library. A little knowledge of history was really all that was necessary for me to appreciate her works.
That is also why, although the acting and cinematography were excellent, I have never bothered to watch the 2005 film a second time. The manners, some of the costuming, and even some sets were occasionally too 21st century.
Maybe you’ve now learned enough to try “The Old Man and the Sea” again?
Old Man and the Sea doesn't require knowing more history as much as knowing more about the kind of wisdom we get from growing old, as it's his patience against the elements of nature. Maybe going fishing with an experienced fisher, or doing anything that requires close attention over time (embroidery, gardening, archery, etc.) would help someone who doesn't get it.
I hope you watched the BBC P&P series. Everything about that work is so well researched and filmed it is a pleasure.
I feel like in order to understand these books and truly enjoy their full potential, you have to understand history. Specifically how life was SO different in history. if your someone who doesn't or didn't like history ,then don't read these books expecting it to be a typical modern romance novel. The fact you're picking up a book called 'Pride and Prejudice' expecting it to be anything other than HARD CORE VOCABULARY ENGLISH WORDS, you have truly fooled thy self. P.S. REALLY LOVE ALL THE VIDEOS! I have binged watched ALL YOUR VIDEOS OVER AND OVER while waiting for another upload😅 Thank you for posting such interestingly detailed videos of olden tales and times. I love stories of 17th to 19th century time. I know we romanticize those era SO MUCH but still... doesn't hurt to be a romantic fool of old stories and plots. Hehe.
Willoughby and Mr. Wickham were the CEOs of Affected Manners.
They worked hard for those positions! 😂😂😂
@@EllieDashwood Props to them for hustling and networking.
I would say Mr. Collins beats them.
@@mariasilviapossas3872 For him, it’s the impulse of the moment lol
I agree on W& W. I think Mr Collins is the epitome of what the word “vulgar” would have meant to Jane.
As a historical writer it's an interesting balance between being matter of fact about things the characters would all know, and giving enough clues for modern readers to understand what's going on without being heavy-handed. Even something as simple as a person being called by their first name or surname (with or without an honorific) depending on who's addressing them can be confusing to some modern readers.
I *love* the writing style of classic literature, even up into the forties and fifties. Even in genre fiction such as sci fi and fantasy, I appreciate that the authors don't feel the need to explain how everything in the setting works.
Thank you for making that bridge between the Regency and modern times, for bringing clarity. I find that when we analyze what people did and how they acted in a different era we start to better understand ourselves. I see how much of the older thinking is still still left in my family that is irrelevant now. For instance, my family was fairly anti-divorce as if the divorced woman would have no choice but become a governess. I start to value more things and choices we have as women.
Irrelevant now? The concern then is the same concern today. The effect upon children. That is the basic purpose of marriage, not romance. Children are negatively affected by divorce. There is a vast body of child development research from around the world on this. I'm a retired professor. Marriage and children are a choice today, if women don't want to be "oppressed" then don't have children. Having a child is a commitment to putting their needs before your own, they had no say in the matter. Adults understand this. We are currently living in a time of many immature adults. Mental illness, self-harm, depression, suicide is happening at an alarming rate in young children. This was not the case in the past where these occurred in adolescence and at a much lower rate.
I was lucky insofar as I am a history bug, so I kind of had a grasp on some of the things. I am also old Gen X, so my grandparents were older and had 'Victorian' attitudes to marriage and relationships to a greater or lesser extent. Attitudes have changed a LOT more in the last forty years, compared to the preceding 200.
However, when all is said and done, if you read between the lines you can see where Miss Jane Austen was not at all prissy. She described pre-marital cohabitation, acknowledged that homosexual acts were going on even in polite society, wasn't afraid to warn against incompatible marriage and acknowledged that slavery at least existed and funded the lifestyle of the rich.
I'm not saying she had 21st century sensibilities, but neither was she shy about mentioning socially taboo reality.
What I really love, though is that rather than be disowned by her family and abandoned by Whickham, Lydia's punishment is a marriage destined to be more miserable than her parents'. And you just KNOW they are both going to live for a veey long time.
This is a little summary of a lot of your videos! Thanks for making them, they’ve made me return to reading Jane Austen’s books!
Thank you for this insightful video! Currently in the middle of reading Pride and Prejudice and its a classic so far! First few chapters instantly got me hooked which is rare for books written nowadays. That's the beauty of reading a novel written centuries ago is it is so foreign to our modern age and it has me curious how people lived back then. Love the themes and background knowledge attributed to this book!
I like annotated versions of Jane Austen's books. They explain pretty much everything a modern reader could have trouble to understand: social norms, phrases, cultural references and even Austen's humour. Highly recommend them!!
Your explanation was perfect! you hit the point .. I had the same discussion with my cousin about "Pride and prejudice": he is a modern reader of modern writers (all MEN) who write best sellers based in the past (fictional of course). For this reason he finds the novel "lacking in explanation of the historical period, it only refers to rich people, it all seems very superficial to me, it is an overrated romance for women, etc.". We are italian so the whole part of history and social customs specific to any other European country is superficially studied at school (just the most important facts and wars). It has been difficult and frustrating to make him understand all the nuances that you expressed so well 😩
I was so sad he disliked the book and Jane Austen so much, because they are my favorite book and author respectively. Eh, if he could only speak and understand english I would show him this video! (I apologize in advance for my English! I did my best 🙇♀️)
Your English is excellent. I only wish I could speak ANY other language so well!
Your best is excellent.
Until you explained all these different aspects I hadn't realised that one of the reasons I like historical books and find them relatively easy to understand is that because of the why I was brought up I already knew these things. No wonder people thought I was a strange child!! Great video and you explain it all with such compelling enthusiasm.
That's what makes it frustrating but it also makes it fascinating. Watching people such as you open up the time so I can understand what Austen was living at her time - and every new fact I learn allows me to read the books as if they were new.
Learning about that time really does transform the reading experience!
I mean, Jane Austen believed in etiquette but also satirised it sharply too. Also, in Hindu Savarna Society, it’s an ecosystem of social hierarchy based on respect with double standards which is also oppressive. The more things change, the more things remain the same.
Wow this came out at a no better time. I recently just saw the 2005 Pride and Prejudice movie for the first time and I plan on reading the book very soon. Loved this because it was so helpful and gave me so much insight!!
Yay! I'm so glad it was helpful!!! 😃 And I hope you love the book!!!
I really enjoy your channel. This is one of your best. I wish I had this before reading P&P the first (dozen?) times. Thank you for doing what you do.
This is one of your best videos since it's more like an overview of the novel rather than the videos dealing with more specific aspects of life during the regency period. Those videos are great too, to be clear! Your info also can be applied to Austen's other novels as well. Thank you for the wonderfully explained synopsis of life in that time.
Aw! Thank you so much!!!
My Favorite thing about reading Jane Austen, is how it expands my vocabulary. I often stop and marvel and say aloud "Jane! You picked exactly the right word there! " And she did it without Google thesaurus!
Your videos are wonderful ❤ it clears up so many questions 😅
I love your videos, they really open the eyes to Jane Austen that teachers when I was younger didnt. When I was a teen my mom insisted I read Pride and Prejudice and I absolutely detected it. Now as an adult I love it and really love how your channel helped really bridge that gap from historical fiction to classics.
It’s my birthday tomorrow so I consider this an Early Birthday Gift. I look forward to seeing your videos!
Happy birthday!🎊🎂
@@kimmatura3564 Thank you!
Gurl, by accident I found one of your videos on Jane Austen and I am addicted. I can't stop watching your videos. I have not read any Jane Austen books, however, I have seen all of the movies (which of course are nothing like the books). Nevertheless, I learned so much about Jane through your videos. She was truly a master at her craft. Just so that you know a bit about your followers, I live in New Jersey. I am of Puerto Rican descent and I am an educator. I'm 62, single never married and a Latina feminist. I love all of your vids. Keep up with the great vids and I will be watching. ❤
Get into them, I’m sure you’ll love them now you’ve been Ellie-educated.
Some of the movies & TV shows do convey the books accurately, too.
Great lesson indeed!!! Thanks a lot, dear Ellie, can't wait for more of the kind 😊😊
Great video!! I’d love to know more about their ideas on picturesque, I’d never thought about this topic before and you bringing it up makes me realize I have a total lack of knowledge on the topic! Hoping you delve into it more!
My biggest question when reading P&P is WHY is Darcy friends with Bingley? Did they go to college together and young Darcy just didn’t give a ____ what anyone thought of his new friend??? Does he enjoy freaking out all the old money people by bringing round his new money bff?
I often wonder when he tells the Bingley’s that the Bennet girls will have a harder time marrying well because of their relations (in trade), is he also thinking of Caroline and how she got her wealth?
I had my own headcanon, where Bingley's father/ grandfather had the money to have him tutored well, & then sent him to posh schools for 'polish' & 'connections'- but because Bingley was of a lower birth-class than most of his fellow students, he was probably friendless- & maybe even bullied, but Darcy- who saw no harm in him decided he'd defend him.
And they became friends because Darcy saw his qualities of character & wanted to help him along in life (Darcy was probably also quite lonely- his sister is only 16 in Pride & Prejudice, so he'd been an only child much of his life) - it would also explain why Darcy wouldn't want Bingley to make a mistake over his choice of wife...
@@OcarinaSapphr-I seriously doubt Bingely was friendless. Little kids don’t run around talking about nuances of class and trade, etc. They make friends with who is around them and come to accept them based on more primal qualities such as having a backbone, attire and good looks. Bingely’s father had the money and no doubt would have ensured his son was clothed in the best material of his time. Plus Bingely had such an outgoing countenance and positive outlook on life, I doubt he was the subject of ridicule and ostracism. People who are bullied often have a more closed off demeanor and jaded outlook on life. Later year schools were often boarding schools, so a prideful, class-aware mother and father likely wouldn’t be constantly interacting with their sons telling them who to hang out with or avoid after they placed them in school for a semester. I think the distinction mainly came about when marriage was on the table.
@@AkireMaru
I'm not English, but I'm pretty sure that the public & boarding schools- as well as colleges & universities had very hierarchical structures; before the modern age, promising poorer students could attend on an early version of a scholarship, where they acted as 'servants' to senior students- I know this latter part, because I researched, to see how a poor boy {one of my minor characters, in a novel I'm working on} could attend university in the 17th c- icr when it changed from that system to the scholarship one.
I'm not saying Bingley had no friends before Darcy, or that he was *constantly* bullied for his entire schooling- there would have been other kids of his own class & circumstance attending these schools.
But kids _do_ imitate their elders- we see this all the time (think about all the pre-teens who learnt how to twerk *_shudder_* ) - & kids were perceived as miniature adults, until into the 19th-20th c.
And I don't think there's a single 'poster-child' target for bullying...
As someone who is currently reading Pride and Prejudice this video was exactly what I needed. You explained everything so well! Thank you for making this video! :)
Aw! Yay! Glad it was helpful! And I hope you enjoy Pride and Prejudice!!!
They wrote differently.
It is with the greatest sentiment that I commend you, Miss Dashwood, in your explanatory endeavors in Classic Literature!
Something that really changed my understanding of the relationships was what people called each other. Mr and Mrs Bennet, despite years of marriage, still call each other this instead of their first names (or at least when we see them). The young people in Persuasion (Anne, the Musgrove sisters and Charles, etc) use first names, which shows they've known each other for years, and of course Mr Knightly calls his young friend Emma because he has known her since she was a child. I remember how odd it was being asked to call some of my parents' friends by their first names for the first time, and even that has changed since my own youth.
Which leads to the question - at what point did Mr Bingley get allowed to called Mr Darcy "Darcy", and how would that have been offered?
Good question! Very good question.
Was using another man’s surname alone a sign of perceived equality? That would be a huge compliment.
perfect video to watch as i currently have the audiobook borrowed and am planning to read it for the first time :)
okay i've had this video opened for 3 weeks now (aka how long it took me to get through p&p), and i just wanted to say THANK YOU! i went to college for teaching English and history, so something like this should have been right up my alley. but the American/British lit canon just never felt like it was for me. this was the oldest book i have read to date. I think my enjoyment of it came from a place of understanding (and not taking any of it too seriously). thank you for breaking down what i needed to know in a way i can understand. you kick ass, Ellie!
Your channel has definitely helped me understand and appreciate Austen’s books more! I remember trying to read P&P for the first time, not even understanding the first few pages. English is not my native language either. Then I decided to try it as an audiobook, so I found one and got through the story without understanding more than sixty percent of what was happening. Later, I tried the Audible version of it and that helped immensely to understand because they act it out with a cast and background ambience. (Don’t support that company anymore, but their productions of the Austen books are so good!) Now I want to try reading it again, with more knowledge of the era and developed English skills. :-)
I love your channel. I love P&P and the way it’s written. I also love historical fiction (shows and books) and your channel helps me enjoy them much more, even when they are not as accurate. It gives me comfort (and I guess understanding the themes of a book) better if I know where the author decided to deviate.
English is not my native language, but I had no difficulty in reading all of the Austen books. It's so much better than a Greek translation, because it shows the true spirit of the author. The first time is may be hard, but when you get to know the basic vocabulary, is easier and I now know what a pianoforte is😏
To be clear though, you have to go back at least to before the ancient Greeks to get to any “generation” in which the scholars believed the Earth could be flat. There were some creation myths that describe the Earth as flat but many of the cultures that told that creation myth also demonstrated knowledge of the Earth being actually round - so it is hard to really show any evidence at all that there were ever a significant number people who believed that the Earth was in reality flat.
The interesting thing is that both myths - that the Earth is flat AND that “people used to believe” the Earth is flat are likely both modern inventions.
As a girl child in the 1950's I read Louisa Mae Alcott and the mannerism and social standing of her characters were different than the people I had contact with. Even though she was at least 100 years newer than Jane Austin's time, it was more formal than my time. In time I discovered Agatha Christie and Jane Austin, I'm not sure of the timing of discovering these ladies as I do not remember a time when I could not read. I just devoured it all and accepted that the manners and mode of speaking (and thinking) was very different than the people I came across daily. My eldest sister is 4 years my senior, so when she started school, I was only 2. As most children do, she would come home and play "school", Since she was the teacher, her siblings automatically became her students, as a result I learned to read before I was 3. I was reading "chapter" books by the time I was 4. From then on I just read everything and any oddities were put down to "that's how the rules work in this book". Later I could and would think more deeply of these differences, but as a young reader I fully accepted that different strokes for different folks (and times) was just the way it was. I did have to go back around age 18 and read Dr. Seuss because I didn't linger with his type of book when I was the age that they (supposedly) written for.
A wonderful heritage.
Your channel is pure gold.
That last section before the outro about classic authors not needing to explain things that their readers would understand reminds me of that post about the entry for "horse" in that Polish dictionary from 1746: Horse: Everyone knows what a horse is
I started reading the book recently and for the first few chapters I found it hard to understand but after that I started to get used to the way they talk and I'm really enjoying it now!!
that's great! You do get into it, and then you find yourself trying NOT to speak that way to those around you 😅
Yay! I'm so glad you stuck with it! It does take time for the brain to switch over into regency mode! 😂
@@EllieDashwood Have you ever seen the interview with the actress who played Mrs Bennet in the 1995 BBC mini-séries speaking about how difficult it was to get the language and cadence down properly, and how the director insisted every word be perfect?
Your name being Dashwood makes you even more perfect for explaining Jane Austen’s books 😊
Great video! What has always confused my most about the book is whether Elizabeth really loves Mr. Darcy and you've answered that question well in another video. I all comes down to understanding how people thought in the Regency Era, which is so fascinating! And makes me wonder what people will think of us in 200 years...
Glad you enjoyed it! And I always wonder that too! What will they think of us?
Thanks for being honest about Austen's works being such a challenge to the modern reader. when i first started reading Austen, I totally needed a Regency dictionary . Every time a character opened their mouth, i misunderstood what it conveyed about their character, because i didn't realise how many words have since changed their meaning. To read Austen with understanding, you have to learn a whole specialised vocabulary.
Just saw this video. I always have to reacclimate myself to the way Jane Austen writes and the way the people talk. Kind of like listening to a person with a strong accent. It takes a minute but then I get it!
I've recently started reading the book and i feel like if I hadn't watched so many of your videos before I would've been so confused, and I'm definitely grateful to be reading it in Spanish too bc the English would've confused me, love your videos Ellie!
I clicked on this thinking I would already know all of these things since I've been a fan of Jane Austen for about 15 years 😮 I was wrong. I'm going to sound so dumb but I thought the girl's dowry was just that amount of money and that's it. Like whoever married Georgiana just got 30k and that's it. Until today I never knew that these were investments that would give a yearly income to the family. This makes so much sense and explains so much 😭😭😭 thank you Ellie!!!
Awwww! I'm so glad it helped!!!
You might enjoy watching Ellie's "Darcy and Elizabeth Had a Prenup?" video from about 6 months ago. It was fascinating info on how women's marriage settlements were negotiated and enforced -- and much more. It is probably my favorite of Ellie's videos.
@@dsr8223 really? I don't think I've seen that one, I'll check it out ^^ thank you for the suggestion
Oops. I did know it all, or the vast majority. I’m a freak of the 20th century.
Or maybe I’m just old, with old-fashioned parents & a King James Bible upbringing.
I still loved Ellie’s presentation, it clarified everything for me, too.
I love the way Jane Austen writes. I love her humour and how subtle and ironic it is. Something I never realised I was unclear about until I watched your videos was entails. I think I must have “gap filled” what was meant by “entailed away” and just assumed “entail” equalled inherit. So that was interesting to learn.
I had no trouble with the concept of entails (thanks, I think, to Georgette Heyer) but couldn’t work out how an entail could go to someone with a different surname & why it wouldn’t devolve to a little Bingley or Darcy boy. Then I found out about people taking adoptive surnames & that explained it. Kinda.
Of course, the entail may also have been set up recently enough that those involved were specifically named.
You should do a video translating a bunch of words/phrases used in that time period to today, like you did in the first section of this video :D LOVE U ELLIEEEE
I have indulged into learning English, and I read the book (an easier one, for language learners) but actually this video helped me a lot. And your accent/pronounciation is really nice and useful for me
Thanks for this content😊
Your goal of making sense of a different time is admirably met! 😊
English isn’t my first language and it took me quite some time to get through her books. But I enjoy history so I like to figure out how they were living back then and why people are behaving a certain way. Listening to the audiobooks works better for me though.
That’s so awesome that you read her books even though English isn’t your first language! That’s an amazing achievement in itself!
Inspired by P&P, I've been reading Fordyce's sermons. It's a challenge! Putting my mindset from the perspective of a clergy man is not a natural habit of mine. Once I got that going, it was much easier, however, all of the flowery prose can make the reading a bit tedious. It's still a pleasant read when taken in the context of P&P. Thank you for your videos!
Wow, good on you, you brave thing.
I remember when I was 16 and decided to pick up a classic book to read as leisure, I chose P&P but, after a couple of weeks, I gave up on it and hasn't touched it since because I thought it was so confusing. The thing is, I chose to read it in english but english isn't my mother tongue so even though I had no problem reading modern fiction in english, this one was really hard. Now, over 5 years later, I've just finished Emma (which I did read it translated to my language) and loved it - understood everything. I did read Little Women last year in english and I loved it too! Understood everything, but I guess since it's a children's book, it's easier to understand
This is one thing about the 2005 version that drew me to the novels. Though I certainly enjoyed US and British 19th century literature before then, it gave me a "leg up" understanding the early 19th century of Jane Austen, as that movie was designed to be innately understood by 21-st century viewers.
That's such a good point about the 2005 version!
Enjoy your channel. Great job making sure we understand the differences in Pride and Prejudice and our time
Aw! Thank you! I’m so glad you enjoy it!!!
As a non-English speaker, I have to say, I much prefer to read Jane Austen in original.
It's not that translation is bad - I'm not the judge of that.
When translated, the conversations seem to me stiff and affected, while in English they sound like a pleasant composition.
It was so much fun to guess from the context, what a particular word means (believe me, there was no "vex" in my dictionary and google was not that popular, when I first read P&P)
That's so interesting! And awesome that you can read it in the original! And that's so funny about vex! 😂
I agree. “Vex” is a word with which I’m very familiar.
My favourite literary belonging is a 797 page annoyed copy of Pride and Prejudice. It’s full of information about social mores, politics and historical notes
I really appreciated your explanation of "picturesque." A very important concept for modern readers to understand is the absence of photography, pictures, or moving pictures in those days required writers to "paint a picture" of what is happening in the story in a way that will help the reader understand and see it in their mind. The language is descriptive, wordy, and probably a lot more scholarly than was used in everyday language. Writing English, and orally speaking English are two different things. We don't have any audio recordings of how that upper class society actually spoke to each other, but I daresay, it may or may not have been verbatim like it was, unless you were quite book learned. Keep in mind, The Bennet family did not have a governess nor were sent to school. They learned on their own, with their parents as an example. How well spoken were they? My evidence, how did Lydia and Mary usually speak, compared to Elizabeth and Jane?
Your videos helped understand better Jane austens books, mainly, Emma, because rank differences are specially important in this book, i think. And also i LOVED your video on Mary Bennet, it's WONDERFUL, and helped me understand Mary Bennet itsel, who i pitied for being injusticed, and also helped me understand why and i am not so fond of Fanny Price.
I have been struggling to read this book til I watched this video
I like your use of "The past is a foreign country"! I think I must have unconsciously been using that approach when reading classic literature, because I tend to approach it like reading a book from a different culture: I may or may not end up enjoying the story or the style*, but I know going in that I'm probably going to have to figure out what certain phrases mean from context, or google some historical events the author assumes I know about, or whatever. But the "foreignness" can be part of the charm! I actually don't like contemporary American or British novels much, because I get bored; I WANT a book to take me to a different place or time.
*For instance, I am NOT of fan of the 1800s novel style where the author goes on a chapter-length digression about how the Paris sewers were built or how to butcher a whale or what their theory of history was. Not saying 'Les Miserable' is a bad book, not at all...just that I don't enjoy having the flow of the plot interrupted in that manner. If I wanted to read a history textbook, I'd read a history textbook, Victor!
I read a lot of historical novels. I look up Google maps all the time to place places (so to speak). Usually with a Google page open to check obsolete words, see the difference between (say) a curricle & a phaeton, & especially to say, “Hang on, you got that bit wrong! No way would a Regency debutante be that … gullible … outrageous … whatever!”