Northern Irish views of The Republic of Ireland, Belfast City, 1965
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2021
- Meeting between Taoiseach Seán Lemass and Captain Terence O’Neill prompts a new look at traditional attitudes.
Following the historic meeting of Irish Taoiseach Seán Lemass with Northern Ireland premier Captain Terence O’Neill in January 1965, Telefís Éireann commissioned several documentaries looking at relations between the North and South of Ireland. The meeting had been the first official leaders’ meeting in 40 years and prompted a fresh look at traditional attitudes.
‘Divided We Stand’ was written, produced and presented by northern Protestant John Hutchinson and looked at the Republic of Ireland through northern eyes. In these vox pops from the programme, Belfast Protestants and Catholics give their views on life south of the border.
‘Divided We Stand’ was broadcast on 15 April 1965. - บันเทิง
The fellow in the second half was very well spoken, open minded and astute.
Yes, agreed, but he did say that "I think Ulstermen have been a separate entity for as long as there has been an Ireland......" which patently isn't true. Ulstermen only became a "separate entity" following the plantations.
yes he was very aware
@@saddoncarrs6963 For all of recorded history, Ulster has been a distinct region with its own culture, mythology, traditions, dialect and leadership. It was at the heart of the Dál Riata in the early middle ages and the later O'Neill dynasty ruled there for about 500 years. The idea that Ulster in the broadest sense of a northern province, and Ulstermen with it, is a creation of the plantations or that the island was some entirely homogenous, borderless, monocultural entity prior to that, is wrong.
@@saddoncarrs6963 quite apart from the fact that not all of Ulster is in NI.
@@IrrationalRecreation exactly!
Poor man at the end seemed very torn and summed it up quite brilliantly, always believed he was British until visiting England and realized he's not quiet Irish after visiting the South. Very sad to feel like a stranger in your own land.
there is nothing wrong with being Irish Welsh or scots
Growing up in the North in the 70s I can attest to the fact that Northern Irish identity is a very complex thing.
@@12presspart To British Unionists it's something to look down Irish Scottish and Welsh identities
He will always be Irish, and so is the land Irish land. Thats why he feels strange
"Stranger in your own land" Describes Irish people in Ireland today
And British people in Britain
The last speaker was clearly a very intelligent man and spoke well.
Very true I remember George best talking about the troubles in northern Ireland and he remembered going to bonfires celebrating both catholic and protestant culture. It would be very interesting to get this mans perspective now after nearly thirty years trouble
The last speaker did seem fairly reasonable, but he made a gaffe Re Ulster, says he’s an Ulsterman, my grandmother was an Ulsterwoman born in Cavan, in the south, the ROI, he’s an Ulsterman only.
I've done a huge amount of reflection in relation to the identity of people from Ulster and can say there is a definite commonality across the province. After all Ulster pre dates the introduction of christianity and the two political jurisdictions we now observe. it has it's own mythology The Ulster Cycles. A good read is the book Alternative Ulsters. the commonality is striking particularly between McGuinness and Paisley . And I must admit I didn't really get a sense of Ulster identity from respondents from Cavan, moreso from Monaghan and most certainly from Donegal.
@@thomascarroll9556 Quite! My Paternal Grandfather was an Ulsterman. He was born in County Donegal. All my life I have referred to Northern Ireland as "The Six Counties". As you know the traditional Kingdom of Ulster is nine counties with three Cavan, Donegal & Monaghan in Eire.
@@nicholaskelly6375 was in Killybegs a couple of years ago (just a port visit on a cruise) some passengers thought we were in NI!
This is what happens when you speak to real people. Make more sense than politicians.
And these were the least eloquent people of the time. Looking smarter than most smart people today, particularly more than the young folk imo
The accents are more mild back then than now 😂
that's an interesting observation - but in England too (and probably the world over?), footballers, cricketers , coalminers, whoever tended to put on a posher voice for the TV up till the 1960s and beyond. Weren't they doing that don't you think, (code shifting) and its quite reasonable to tone your accent down when broadcasting because of course, you'd like people from elsewhere to be able to understand you?
@@MrVorpalsword could be a degree of both... Maybe they developed stronger accents as part of an identity.. the catholics and protestants don't sound very different there at all
@@kaimcloughlin8981 do they now - if they come from the same place? - and I'm fairly sure the two sects have been separated to live in different suburbs more than they were in the 1960s.
@@MrVorpalsword if you couldn't detect the difference in accent between the two groups nowadays you probably haven't spoken to many of either party.. they each have their own unique sounds along with their common ulster twang
I think it’s because people have took pride in their common accents, this is probably the case across the U.K people generally go to the lower denominator.
That last chaps contribution was highly interesting ,seems to be without any sort of bias at all ,he's views ten years later would be even more interesting id say
I would love to hear his contribution today
He joined the UVF , became a mass murderer
@@peaceandLove220 lies
He may have been persuaded by the soft-unionist movement for an independent Ulster, based on his positions here. Although, I think it has always been the case that within the union each home nation has its own identity far more so than a British identity and that would be true of the 6 counties also.
I wonder what happened to him.
Jesus if only they knew what was ahead of them for the next 30 years.........
It's so eery and sad. All that horror stacking up and waiting to be unleashed on them all. We're doomed to never learn from the past.
@Murray David that old myth,
The brits were there the prop up the state, yes they protected Catholic areas, but if u think that's why they were sent to North of Ireland your badly mistaken,
@Murray David so u think British soldiers had no other agenda being in the North?
🤔
@Murray David explain cause I don't understand what your trying to say?
@Murray David Part if it was also that they started recruiting loyalists for the are with things like the UDR, who sometimes just outright associated or gave the UDF weaponry.
If discrimination between Catholics and Protestants had been ended sooner then the whole thing might not have happened.
Heck, if it wasn't for the First World War then the entirety of Ireland would probably be a devolved country under the UK like Scotland or Wales, with the UDF being the chief troublemakers.
How does the comment section on a video about whether or not the North should rejoin the Republic become one of the most civil on TH-cam. I was expecting bedlam but it's all very civil
Part of the North is in the Republic donegal monaghan
@@paulrickards4921
I know, but when people say the North it's understood that people mean the 6 Counties
People should buy an atlas
@@paulrickards4921 The country is called Northern Ireland, by your standards the name of the country should be changed to reflect the fact that it isn't the whole North, only the majority. North-Eastern Ireland doesn't roll off the tongue as well
The majority of hardline Unionists are over 60? and hence,are either not on the internet,or are on facebook instead
Look at these lovely, decent folk.
Nobody in this video spoke harshly about his neighbor.
5 years later, they were killing each other.
Such a shame.
Vox pop edits are the easiest to finesse any way you like it. Hardly to be trusted as representative of a time and place.
@Caden Patton Hamilton Mi5 started it.
So, republicans didn't kill civilians ! Is that what you are trying to say? However, I don't know of any Loyalists putting bombs in public places, thankfully, unlike their Republican counterparts, I think it may have been mooted, after some really low bombings by Republicans, resulting in the death of children! But as far as I know, Loyalist never stopped to such a disgusting, embarrassing low. Do correct me, if I'm wrong. ✌
@@shamelesshussy This shows a listing of children killed in the NI troubles (1970-1972) with totals being:
70 Dead under 18 years
25 were killed by Irish Forces
22 were killed by Ulster Forces
23 were killed by British Army
58 Catholic Children killed
23 by British Army
21 by Ulster Forces
14 by IRA (11 were killed by premature bomb explosions in houses)
12 Protestant Children killed
11 by IRA
1 by Ulster Forces
@@duncanedwards7840 no they they went further and killed an unborn
The last man was a very decent, genuine person. I hope he had a good life.
Well said. I’d love to find his name & see what kind of life he led & if he’s still alive today.
They all sounded very decent and genuine both Catholic and Protestant.
so interesting. the catholic church was the stumbling block. when he went to england he realised he was irish. when he went to eire he realised he wasn't irish.
Perhaps interesting but for the protestants in the south, they would say what? It's more political and ethnicity than religion. Also for him it was psychological like for anyone who goes to another country even of similar culture.
Kaide I'm from County Down and I'm Irish. Not some makey uppey invented nationality called Northern Irish. Not British. Not British and Irish.
I don't share the same identity as an Orangeman or some Linfield supporter. I don't have the same allegiances or political aspirations as them. I have no shared history with them and I view the timeline of Ireland incredibly different from them. I've far far more in common with someone from Kerry or Dublin than I have with a Loyalist.
@@kincaidwolf5184 They are all irish, if a person is born in Ireland
Whether it's north or south they are irish, they are not hybrids,
@@kincaidwolf5184 British is an identity it's not a nationality, you can be born in timbuck 2 and be british, the people of Gibraltar are not british though the british government will say that they are, their bloodline is Spanish,
It's the same with the Hong Kong Chinese they may have british passports
But they are not british, and the irish people are Celtic they are not british,
@@kincaidwolf5184 And the native america is the american Indian,
The man at the end couldn't have spoken a truer word and this video was before the troubles even started.
In 2021 folk in the Republic would look north and think it overally religious. How the times have changed.
@@IRISHATLANTIC N.I always Prod rule so they have no right critique south Rome rule.
He's a West brit
@@RobertK1993 an all island secular Republic. Religion is an outdated concept.
@@AnnesleyPlaceDub70 Yes Protestants in N.I did the same.
Very very interesting, the protestants seem perplexed by the influence of religion in the South, yet only a couple of years later the influence of the likes of Paisley was massive towards the northern protestants. Just shows how quickly things changed.
Paisley was actually already a big influence on working class Loyalism by this point!
In 1964, he pretty much organised a riot in the Divis area because one of the Sinn Fein offices had a tricolour displayed in the window.
thebrokenelbow.com/2020/08/20/the-divis-street-riots-of-1964/
@@ferghalicious1480 I was really just commenting on the normal everyday people interviewed in this video. I don't think Paisley had anywhere near the influence at this point that he would go on to have.
@@bordercollie1140
Fair enough. Dw I’m not trying to start an argument or anything. I just thought the Divis riots example was pretty relevant to the point you made about people’s attitudes changing so quickly, especially since Moloney concludes that the riot’s root cause was ‘essentially the active and reactive sectarian antipathy harboured by so many otherwise rational people.’
Massive would be an overstatement. Most Protestants viewed paisley as nothing more as a mad raving minister. That’s why he didn’t get support up until 2004. When he changed his brand to a peacemaker, rather than a rebel rouser.
Ah, they just didn't like the dominance of the RCC. They liked their British Christianity and their British government.
Those twins at 1:18 are lovely, and I like the way that the mum has given them and the baby in the pram the same hairdo as herself.
Comment of the video👏👏👏👏
I missed the hair-dos, that's great.
That's the kind of woman I like. No opinion on that. Nice looking and sweet with four well dressed children.
The final speaker was interesting because he thought about the question. He learnt that he was Irish when he visited UK, and in Eire he realised he was not Irish.
Yeah we heard
Ahhh the dilemma......
Wrong in Eire he wanted to be British, so he went there, but in Britain he is Irish. He doesn't want to be Irish, but he I, so is the soil he was born and raised is Irish, protestant or not, he too is Irish..
The poor dimwits have no culture, nationality or identity, they don't belong anywhere and aren't wanted anywhere and cling to a foreign flag of convenience.
Look I know they're orangemen but they were dead right about how powerful the church was
How times change, there the ones ruled by there religion now, the Republic has grown and move on,,
Utd Ireland is coming
I see my own mother a good intelligent capable woman who let herself be led and said by the church. How did people allow themselves to be brainwashed by these things in Ireland it was the catholic church in northern Ireland it was Britishness in Germany it was fashasisam
@@littlebrayutd why do u think northern Ireland's? ruled by religion
@@edwardtanner6393 loyalist politicians are ruled by religion
There bigoted base
@@littlebrayutd i think some of them may be influenced by t.he church .
But not all .
The unionist in northern Ireland would not have stood for the degree of control that the republic did post partition from the church .
Can u give me examples of control the protestant church has today over the community ?
To the same degree as the control the catholic church had over the republic .
Certainly Sunday opening was 1 ,40 years ago .
But the churches control in republic was massive .
So interesting! I'd love to have seen these people interviewed again ten years later!
What like now?
@@TheBenzer9 no 10 years later in the mid 70s by that time the troubles reached its peak of sectrian violence.
@@TheBenzer9 que?
@@briandoherty245 ????
I was 1 year old when this was broadcast. Those talking were 3 years away from chaos.
What those interviewed had to say about the Roman Catholic Church was, at that time, of course, correct. The same could not be truly said in 2021. The irony is that many Northern Ireland Protestants would have difficulty in accepting laws, made since that time, by the Irish government, which are opposed to the position of the Roman Catholic Church.
The Republic of Ireland is now legislatively and socially more progressive and accepting than Northern Ireland. Identity politics has such a strong strangle hold on so many people in Northern Ireland.
@@thisguy976 by progressive you mean more far left. The Roman Catholic church back then definitely had too much power but the swing to the social far left in Ireland and all over particularly northern Europe is crazy in my opinion. But as the biblical saying goes,as you sow shall you reap.
In any case the issue with northern Ireland is proof of demographics having a huge bearing on politics and society in general. The reason so many ulstermen never really felt Irish but British is because ethnically they WEREN'T Irish but descendants of mostly lowland Scots and to a lesser extent English and even hugenots from the ulster plantation. That's the proof ethnic cleansing works. The reality is that northern Ireland/ulster is the UK's last colony.
@@Alex-dc3xp The reality is that it might work but only if it is executed effectively. Of course there is different demographics in NI now than the 1960s and obviously more that just two players. However, unionism is decreasing (to some extent) and also shifting and nationalism is (gradually) increasing. Although that is not a guarantee of anything. You can't really say ethnic cleansing works in the case of NI if the ethnic group that was inteded to be eliminated has not been. Even now, NI has less in common with the rest of the UK than ever before and especially very little in common with where the bulk of the population lives (England). England and Ireland have both shown that they want to be more progressive and innovative compared with NI which still lags behind despite all the financial aid it gets. To interpret progressive as merely 'far left' in the case of Ireland is reaching. Yes Ireland is a pretty liberal country in the scheme of things (similar to England, Northern Europe and parts of the US), however, Ireland has shown significant progression in the way of religious freedom, equality of opportunity, provision of education, increased quality and standards of life and social security. Its a far cry from perfect and that goes for every country in the world. Only a few small countries and principalities can achieve a very high level of progression in all social and economic aspects. Though, Ireland for a small nation it has got past a lot of hurdles both recent and historic and as such its a country that has shown it can roll with the punches.
NI is dependent on its much bigger counterpart, England and, not being facetious, but England has shown it does what it feels like and it really couldn't give two plonkers about the rest of the UK. Scotland could handle its own outside of the UK. Wales is an uncertain case. NI just doesn't have what it takes to last by itself in the long run. It's guaranteed that the Tories aren't going to be looking out for the citizens of NI, they'll be looking out for the people who keep them in power (English citizens).
Alot of water has passed under the bridge since this interview, both politically and religiously.
Has it really?
@@francismcdonnell753 The Republic has surely changed a lot in terms of the religious influence.
Most important thing is economically. The south at this time was poor and the north was average. Now the south is incredibly rich, with Google, Apple, Facebook, etc and a centre of the global pharmaceutical industry, while the north is poverty stricken and still with agriculture as the main industry. There isn’t even a motorway between Belfast and Derry, in spite the short distance, while Dublin is connected to every city in the Republic via motorway.
Chalk and cheese from that time to this. Only a bigot or someone fearing retaliation for how the unionist community behaved in the past would oppose reunity now.
@@ckpalmeiras1318 spot on its almost like London doesnt care about them.
@@ckpalmeiras1318 the South is incredibly rich? Why then do people from the South go North to shop? I've been outside the RoI for years and am shocked about the cost of living now ,especially Dublin. The RoI may have all these giant multinationals but ordinary people are struggling.
Amazing insight into the Northern Irish folk, how they see themselves not knowing what was going to follow.
22 year old lad from limerick here:
From what I’ve heard and read I’m glad to have been born after the influence of the church had been diluted bc as far as I can see, religion has brought nothing but pain to this island and politics should be totally independent from religion not only here but all over the world
31 year old lad from Armagh;
The Ulster Irish fought in the War for Independence,yes?
What was our reward?
Whilst the south grew up with the luxury of freedom,we were abandoned by our brothers in the south.
Doomed to our fates at the hands of sadistic loyalist and unionist murder squads,backed by an empire.
Labelled terrorists for fighting for basic human rights,in our own country,against an empire,fighting to deny basic human rights.In a foreign country.
So,if you think it was about religion,ask yourself this;
Who were treated better,
The Protestants in the south,or the Catholics in the north?
Don't get it twisted,it wasn't a Catholic v Protestant war,it was a native Irish v occupying Brit war.
@@colloquialsoliloquy6391 As a proud Irish man living in the republic of Ireland, I sympathize with the sad reality of how Catholics were treated in Northern Ireland. However, Thousands of Protestants in the south of Ireland were burned out of their homes or threatened with death if they did not leave Ireland. This happened during and after the war of Independence. Many were forced to move to the north of Ireland, Britain, Canada or Australia. Their stories fed fear into the minds of Northern Irish unionists. This did not help the Catholic cause in Northern Ireland!!. Not to mention, After Independence the republic of Ireland was deeply divided between the pro treaty and anti treaty republicans, not to mention a large minority of Catholics in Ireland who still had a dormant loyalty to Britain. During the Irish civil war, Irish men were more sadistic and brutal toward each other than the black and tans had ever been in Ireland. Many regard the burning of the Irish customs house by the IRA as being the most treacherous event to take place in recent Irish history because priceless Irish census, registries and records going back centuries were destroyed by the IRA. DeValera's protectionist economic policies and anti British undertones kept Irish people in deeper poverty than Catholics in Northern Ireland. Britain still kept Ireland fed for decades through emigration and trade. Ireland had achieved de-facto independence in 1914 through the "Government of Ireland act" just before world war 1, only to be scuttled by 1916 and the war of independence. Those events cemented partition. Recent Irish history is not as simple as you suggest, and much of the misery of the recent past has been self inflicted unfortunately!!
@@dlougha Thousands? No way man,it was a few hundred,and even then,it was more the fact that these houses belonged to the same aristocracy/absent landlords that refused to help Irish people during the attempted genocide or "famine".
It wasn't because they were protestant,sure most of our prominent republicans were protestant.
If religion was our bias,there would be zero chance of letting protestants into the IRA,nevermind leading them
Even if it were thousands,it still pales in comparison to the countless Catholics,raped,murdered or maimed in the 300 years of Ulster occupation.
And the civil war only happened,because the Brits only negotiation offer was "split your country,or we will invade you and plant more Scots and English"
People often forget that.
The census issue I can't defend,only explain as being a shitty side to these wars.
We consider De Valera to be a traitor,so I'll agree with you on that,from the economic wars,to silly things like the cod war,to protectionism(for what?! shoe making?!)
what a clown he was.
And lol
Britain didn't keep Ireland fed with trade etc
That's like when British people try to say "well we built lots of railways in Africa to help the people"
no
they built the railways to extract stolen resources faster.
According to the Hague,and Holocaust Commission,Britain attempted genocide on Ireland through starvation,so nope Britain definitely did not keep Ireland fed,we were an agricultural society,that would have been fine,better even,if we had control of our trade with Europe for instance.
And WHAT?!
1916 scuppered Home Rule?!!
Britain,a fecking global sized empire....didn't have enough time or organizational power to get Home Rule through?
Just...what?
Obviously Home Rule was never going to happen,it was yet another promise that was reneged upon,it took two years of dying in French ditches for the Irish to realize that,and you think it was their fault?!
Oh boy,Irish history is quite simple actually.
In democratic times,we have been the guinea pig nation,to see how far people can be pushed,what lies can be told to make occupied people fight FOR you,and how to make at least half of that nation,believe that their owns struggle for independence...is what ruined their chances of independence....
It saddens me to see so many Irish people have given up on us in the north :(
No bro. Man’s pride and hate brought misery to this island.
@@colloquialsoliloquy6391 division between Protestant and Catholic had gone on for centuries, however it has always been the work of the British government in the escalation of sectarianism. From Cromwell to the Military Reaction Force (British Army Death Squad designed to imitate and work with Loyalist Paramilitaries) it’s British imperialism that caused such huge division and brutality. Take any other example from the history of the ‘Great’ British Empire: the Bengal Famine, the Great Famine, supporting the Apartheid Governments of South Africa, Mau Mau Uprising concentration camps... the list goes on. Your comment on “making occupied people fight for you... fighting for independence ruins the chance of independence” was a really great way of putting it.
great piece of video, from and independence supporting scot great to see these viewpoints expressed with calm and heartfelt integrity
Wgat a great video. Thanks for the upload. Hope inspiring stuff my friend 🙂
When talking about modern Ireland, one thing that needs to be mentioned was how a Protestant Irish Parliament successfully gained independence for Ireland between 1782 and 1800, during which time Catholics got most of their rights back, with most Irish people of different faiths uniting under the ideologies of either constitutionalism or Republicanism, with both in favour of varying degrees of Irish sovereignty/autonomy and increased personal rights.
This independence ended when a failed Republican Revolution in 1798 led British prime minister William Pitt to intimidate and bribe the Irish Parliament into merging the Kingdom Ireland into the UK after an initial Union vote failed. Ireland’s Parliament was forced to merge with The British one (though the courts and civil service of Ireland remained separate, but nominally subject to Westminster from now on).
People on both sides seem to have completely forgotten this chapter in Irish history, because Protestants and Catholics fighting together for an independent Irish Kingdom doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative, and yet it had a major impact on the island. Unionism, Republicanism and Constitutionalism all originate from the original Irish volunteers that used the opportunity of the American Revolution distracting Britain to revolt in 1782. This heralded the independence and has shaped all aspects of Irish politics ever since.
It is quite incredible how the last gentleman sums up my feelings about my own identity. To Irish to be British and to British to be Irish. I only ever seen the free state as somewhere my father went to get cheap fuel. And though I have a lot of time and respect for those South of the border I can only see myself as, 'that different entity that has existed as long as they're has been an Ireland'; an Ulster man.
Not a free state any more its a republic . And as a lad from roi I've never understood y people from the North. Feel " uncomfortable " here we have many immigrants and we all work relatively well if an ulsterman was walking around talking no one bats an eye cause we are past that stuff . But I feel the north is kinda stuck in the past ( with all due respect 🙌) thinking we hate them and will kill them on sight it just isn't the case we don't really care but in a good way
@@fearmorpiercemacmaghnais7186
It's just that the protestants of the North are fearful of the power of the Catholic Church, they have no idea that many thousands of former Catholics, have the same fear.
@@fearmorpiercemacmaghnais7186
As someone from the south. Its the Free State. Not a republic. Even if it has that name.
Republicans lost the civil war to a National Army backed by Britain and composed half of former British soldiers.
Prominent Republicans, who had fought for Irish Independence were rounded up, tortured and executed by the Free State special branch.
That same special branch thats overseen today by a former RUC man. The same RUC that aided loyalist paramilitaries in committing atrocities on republican and nationalist targets north and south.
Ireland is a vassal state.
Well the south has came along way from there more progressive than the North now
Your comment is fascinating. You’re obviously a thinking person. I wish there was a way to get the name of the last man in this interview and find out if he’s still alive, and what kind of life he’s had.
May I ask you if the divide is more the role of religion in a society, or is more political where some want to be governed by the UK or the Republic of Ireland?
Also may I ask if a large or small part of the population has picked a side & stays segregated to their own today?
Helping the last guy reconcile his Irishness without ignoring his Britishness is the key to a United Ireland.
The majority don't want a United Ireland
@@jdfiend Says who this before the troubles.
@@jdfiend I dont think the majority in the south want a United Ireland either
@@simonshiels1 I think you'll find the vast majority would want a United Ireland under the right circumstances.
@@simonshiels1 vast majority in republic support it in every poll taken and last poll in NI should 47% for union with Britain, 42% for union with Republic. As the demographics have changed the numbers for a United Ireland have shifted with them.
I don’t think I’d vote for reunity if I was a unionist, as the unionist community have done such terrible things I’d never feel safe without the blanket of British state protection. But for anyone else, you’d have to be a clown and a disgrace to your children not to want to end this poverty stricken mess that is NI and rejoin our rich family in the Republic.
This is before "The Troubles" The last speaker was quite correct in that there was going to be "Political Change" I very much doubt that what followed after 1967 was what he had envisaged.
0:47 - the guy is spot on.
Once again great vid
I’m Welsh and lived in Belfast for 18 months in 2013/2014, I worked with people from the shankill and from the falls, and I told the pul community that if they walked into a pub in Britain, they would get asked what part of Ireland they’re from, not wether they were from Northern Ireland or not, everyone in gb bar a few calls Northern Ireland , Ireland and to be honest I just don’t think the average person cares about it, Protestant, catholic whatever, I didn’t even know my mum was a Protestant and my dad was a catholic until I asked them it’s not something that was pushed on us in GB
It is to do with the Orange order, the plantation, where those divides originate from. In 1982 Gerry Adams said to the BBC newsnight reporter, "How are they a different people"?
@@blenderocean Peep o day boys became the orange order ethnic cleansing Roman Catholics in Armagh during the 1780s and 90s
In fairness they were spot on about the catholic church.
Infairness Orange Order Presbyterians ran N.I into ground if wasn't for IRA terrorism Roman Catholics would still be discriminated.
@@RobertK1993 catholics were granted all civil rights including 'one man-one vote' by the end of 1969, when direct rule was imposed. The Provisional Ira was only founded that year, so no, the Ira terrorism was pretty much pointless.
@@seantoner7392 No the discrimination stopped in 1972 but your right IRA wanted more then an end to Roman Catholic discrimination.
They weren't offering a critique of a non secular society if that is what you mean, they just fancied their own team's religion, just as conservative in most respects.
@@seantoner7392 FFS, legislation was introduced in 1969. It took decades for things to change. In fact, the last of the penal laws were only removed last year by the introduction of the Irish Act by Westminster.
My mother left Ireland for England in the sixties and told us; in England she felt she could breathe. She still practised her faith and was very disappointed when her three sons took to atheism like ducks to water. With all of us in the kitchen one day it was being reported on the radio, the Pope's criticism of some British government policy. My mother muttered under her breath; the Pope should stay out of England's business. Laughter all round.
That’s unfortunate atheism is just an absence of divine love man. It’s easy to disprove the monotheistic all good and knowing god. But if you look for god in nature u will find him (especially if u take some shrooms too)
@@Kosovar_Chicken ha ha!!!
Funny that, England probably should have stayed out of other countries' business throughout history also (including as recently as the 2000s).
@@thisguy976 Hey snowflake. Since 1066 there has been over 70 invasions of Britain. Mostly failed.
1067: Edgar Aethling attacked the West Country twice (2)
1060s-70s: Sweyn Estridsson invades in the north and then East Anglia (2)
1208: The Channel Islands are seized by Eustace the Monk (1)
1216: The French invade Kent, which sees their leader crowned (1)
The Hundred Years War
1217: Eustace the Monk invades near Sandwich 1
1338 to 1339: Attack on Harwich, Southampton, Plymouth, Jersey (twice), Guernsey, Alderney and Sark (8)
1340: French raids along the south coast; at least six landings (6)
1360: Attacks on Sandwich, Rye, Hastings and Winchelsea (4)
1373: Another French invasion of Jersey (1)
1376: Attack on Rye (1)
1377: Raids on Rye (twice), Rottingdean, Portsmouth, Dartmouth, Plymouth, Isle of Wight, Winchelsea, Folkestone, Southampton, Poole (11)
1380: Winchelsea attacked again (1)
1386: Winchelsea attacked once more. There were also landings in Kent (2)
1415: Isle of Wight attacked (1)
1408-1415: Raids on Isle of Wight and two on Dartmouth by French privateers (3)
1418: Winchelsea raided once more (1)
1461: French invade Jersey (1). Two other raids on Winchelsea during the war are referred to in documents. The years are not known, but they are distinct from the ones named above (2)
1487: Lambert Simnel, the pretender to the throne, landed in Lancashire, backed by a foreign force (1)
1491: Perkin Warbeck, another pretender, lands in Ireland to gain support for his claim (1)
1495: Warbeck invades in Kent (1)
1497: Warbeck invades in Cornwall (1)
1545: Isle of Wight, invaded by French in campaign that saw the loss of the Mary Rose (1)
1595: Cornwall invaded by the Spanish (1)
1601: Spanish landings at Cork (1)
1627: Barbary pirates land and occupy Lundy (1)
1620s: Barbary attacks around Conwy (1)
1631: Barbary sacking of Baltimore, Ireland (1)
1636: Barbary raid on St Keverne, Cornwall (1)
1640: Barbary attack on Penzance (1)
1667: Dutch landings at Sheerness and Felixstowe (2)
1688: William of Orange lands, leading to the Glorious Revolution (1)
1690: French raid Teignmouth (1)
1719: Spanish land at Loch Alsh (1)
1745: French-backed Jacobites landed (1)
1778: John Paul Jones raid on Whitehaven and Solway Firth (2)
1779: French raids on Channel Islands (1)
1796: French invade at Fishguard (1)
1940: Skirmish involving Germans at Graveney Marsh, Kent (1)
1940-1945: Nazi occupation of Channel Islands (1)
If you learn history, you'll know that throughout history every country has been sticking their noses in other peoples business. Just that Britain was better than most.
@@Kosovar_Chicken atheists have a love of all humanity. To know that we are only on this earth for a short time means I know what is important. Also I have my own conscience to answer to not a god who let's me do bad things then confess them and everything is alright. I dont do bad things in the first place. Until people give up religion and believe in their own humanity there will never be peace.
I've come across this identity split in a number of Northern Irish people, and I find it endlessly fascinating. It's people like the last speaker who make Northern Ireland so extraordinary, and there's no shortage of such people up there. There's so much depth, acceptance, wisdom, and extraordinary kindness and tolerance to be found in Northern Irish people. To me, a Polish girl living down South, the Northern Irish are amongst the most inspiring people I have come across in my travels, and Stroke City is my favourite place on this planet.
Can't beat the Ulster men, no coincidence some of the best sportsmen the world has ever seen come from Northern Ireland Something in the water there
@@careyscates3516 haha Antrim is the worst GAA county in Ireland given it’s population (excluding Huns who obviously don’t count) and Belfast hasn’t produced an even half decent soccer player for close to 50 years (since Norman Whiteside).
Now in fairness, the real ulster men (Irish Gaelic Catholics) produce good teams in Tyrone and sometimes in Armagh, Donegal, Derry, Monaghan who can almost compete with the likes of Dublin and Kerry.
But beyond that you’re looking at a load of golfers haha the kind of activity a hun calls a game!
@@ckpalmeiras1318 Johnny Evans 3 times premier league winner and fifa club world cup, David Healy joint goal scoring record holder of the uefa european championship, Carl Frampton former unified WBA Super-weight and IBF Super-bantamweight champion, Johnathan Rea world superbike champion in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. Then the golfers Rory Mcilroy Graham Mcdowell and Darren Clarke. Then A P mccoy Grand National, Scottish Grand National, Cheltenham Gold Cup, Queen Mother Champion Chase, Champion Hurdle, King George VI Chase, Ryanair Chase, RSA Chase, Fighting Fifth Hurdle, Tingle Creek, Arkle Challenge Trophy, Welsh Grand National, Midlands Grand National, Irish Grand National, Lexus Chase, Galway Plate.
@@davealex6640 haha this list makes my point....Johnny Evans!
@@ckpalmeiras1318 Well you mentioned Norman Whiteside. I mean i love Norman Whiteside but he never won a premier league or first division at that time. Also back in the days of Whiteside the first division was the best of British and Irish. But these days the premier league has some of the top players in the world and the man made it into Fergies Man U which is a great achievement when they where totally dominating and as i stated won the premier league with them 3 times.
Yeah .. Cork men, Kerry men, Leitrim men even Dubliners are a separate entity too. But they are all irish.
How are Dubliners a separate entity
Interesting video of Divis Street, Noel Grimley's shop, Legion Of Mary hostel & Arkle pub.
Great to hear this point of view
When all is said and done changing flags and colours of post boxes make no real difference ,to the day the day to day lives of ordinary people as long as there is peace.
well the impact of british imperialism is a lot more than that. it’s not just a case of sentiment - taking back what was wrongfully annexed and should still be part of Ireland - its about reducing britain’s impact on our island and our people.
Well said
Ye in today society back then could you imagine been treated as second class for been Irish catholic? And before the north of ireland problem could you imagine me coming to your now taking your house land and everything you own and telling you I own in now simple
No. A flag is not a mere symbol. The mentalities of the ruling culture will seep into everything.
I feel neither British nor Irish. I feel Northern Irish. We've been around long enough now to have formed an identity that will always be different from (albeit influenced by) London and Dublin. Although in 1965 i'm not surprised nobody cared!
@Fíonán Murphy Dead on mate. You have no idea how people up here think. We're just 'Nordies'. So no I won't. A united Ireland won't change that and doesn't really bother me. There's a culture and identity that's apart from both the UK and Ireland. Regardless of Protestant or Catholic, this area of the island is different.
@Fíonán Murphy I like your stance on Scotland being British lol. Yes, my ancestors came here in the plantation from Scotland. That far back is entirely irrelevant to my point. This country has been through a lot in it's short 100 years and there has had to be a certain degree of getting along beneath the surface level troubles. That's resulted in "Norn Iron". As cringey as that sounds it's a real thing.
@Fíonán Murphy But yes, I'm not fussed on a political change in situation because the people won't change obviously. Think sometimes people up here have a bit of a complex for being treated as the problem child who doesn't want Mammy (Ireland) And Father (UK) to tell them what to do anymore ... We're 100 now Mam and Dad!
@Fíonán Murphy On the fence maybe. But yeah the Sinn Fein/DUP "at least we're not the other ones" campaign style is for sure beginning to fall apart. All the best.
Very candid views. Thanks for the video. My DNA is from Ireland (I'm in the US) so this is really good to watch to get some culture in me outside of Irish music, The Quiet Man film and St Patrick's Day..
Another American pretending to have Irish heritage! Lol.
@@peterreid9769What's wrong with that though? If he's got irish heritage then he's irish
The first man's opinions are rendered unacceptable by his taste in knitwear.
Highlights the complexity of Irish politics well.
It's just a pity we couldn't get along better with each other. All those people who lost their lives. I have friends on both sides of the divide and feel a better person for it.
Quite right and based purely on Christianity as catholics and protestants are,the basic message is love thou neighbour -got lost when religion was used as a recruitment and fighting tool. 2 true Christians would not fight.
Great to see the context of The Troubles. I just wish the sound was higher.
This is eye opening...
This video was made year before i was born but very littlebhas changed really.but that man.who spoke last is correct in what he said when you are in england or wales or scotland it doesnt matter what side of the arguement your on we are sll seen as irish over there and the reason being we were born on an island called ireland not on the island of britain.so that is why we are all seen as irish.
As an Ulster-Scot myself I find what you say to be true in the vase of
The English & Welsh they they view people from The Republic of Ireland & Nothern Ireland as all Irish but I would say here in Scotland we have our own Religious devide so many of understand the difference much more than you portray in your comment.
Here in Scotland we might all live side buy side but with absolutely no need for peace walls at all but the religious tensions are always there boiling under the surface of Scottish society so sont try to kid yourself on about that.
But in modern Scotland there is much more inter religious marriage now a days than there used to be so the attitude is much more of one of live & let live but you go back to the 80's & 90's this was not so much the case.
In my family my Gran on my Mum's side was born a Prodestent adopted buy a Catholic cupple then married a Prodestent on of my Aunts on my Dads side a Prodestent her husband my Uncle is a Catholic & my own sister Married a Catholic so honestly I can see things from both sides of the religious devide I have also spent a lot of time in Nothern Ireland or Ulster if you like so I know the score.
The English & Welsh have absolutely no clue what to ever about what
a religious devide looks like in reality only what they see on Documentary's & on The News where in Scotland to a much lesser extent we live with the reality aswell but not as much as in
Nothern Ireland ( Ulster ).
Keep Safe.
I think most are quite wary about calling someone who identifies as Irish, British if that makes sense. For us, Northern Ireland usually doesn’t come up enough in our day to day lives and when we do look into it, it’s often with an exasperated “can’t you all just get along?!” so we choose to try and ignore it in the hope it’ll sort itself out.
Aye we English tend to see things more in terms of the land masses rather than the countries. If you're from the island of Great Britain, you're British, and if you're from the island of Ireland, you're Irish. When i hear friends from Northern Ireland say they're British, not Irish it sounds weird. But i guess the whole lot (including the Republic of Ireland) are called 'The British isles' anyway.
The Belfast writer Tony Macaulay who grew up on the Shankill wrote of his experience visiting England as part of a choir. The choir members thought of themselves as British but their accents meant nearly everyone they encountered thought of them as Irish.
I think your wrong about Scotland, you have Ulster Scots,you use words we took over during the Plantation , you still come to the West of Scotland, mostly Glasgow!
I have met many nice folks from Northern Ireland and I don't say they're Irish, they're British citizens like me!
All fantastic speakers, no malice, no sectarianism, just honesty.
That was before paisley got has rabble rousing hooks in them
The only catholic iv ever witnessed saying he prefers the way it is lol. Amazing really. But fair play for his honest opinion
I have both Catholic and Protestant family in Northern Ireland. My Catholic grandmother has a UK passport not an Irish one and several Catholics both family and otherwise have told me they are content within the UK.
For the longest time, polls of Catholics in Northern Ireland showed that the majority preferred to stay in the UK. So I find it interesting that you are amazed to witness it. Perhaps you've never seen it, but it's truly not amazing. With Brexit, the latest poll of all the citizenry show only a very narrow margin would choose to remain.
@@andrewdevine6333 Obviously your family member shaven't clue about the history of Roman Catholic discrimination in Orange state.
@@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS I bet once the troubles started they changed their minds
@@JimmyRoche420 your betting so you your playing the guessing game, stereotyping??
What a totally fascinating watch. Many differing opinions...
The last chap I felt an odd sense of familiarity. I was born in England but my entire family is from Ireland. We moved in my early teens and the Republic just never felt like home despite my roots but strangely Northern Ireland seemed like this odd middle ground balance. I would be happy as would a lot of others it seems to have Northern Ireland remain as is purely because its become a home to those of us who are Irish by family but don't fit in with the culture and practices of the south.
This happens most people who emigrate anywhere .. They feel between 2 worlds.
Doesn't really make any sense Irish Catholics in the north and the south practice the exact same culture. You hardly fit in with orange culture if you are from England either.
Identity is complex.
I was born in London, to one English parent and one Irish parent. Was raised on Irish history, would take great delight as a family at England losing to any other country on earth in sports, was included on parent's Irish passport as a kid and applied for both passports as an adult.
Don't feel very much affinity at all for England, but rather London. Feel very much London Irish in identity, and if I was ever to relocate, it would be overseas, as cannot see myself living outside the capital at all. Feels more and more backward and 'little England' these past few years more than ever.
Conor Bradley Irish Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland have more in common with Republic of Ireland then they do with Great Britain/United Kingdom .
I don’t think the average person in Northern Ireland, on either side, were that politically motivated, but then after nearly thirty years of a divide with 50 foot walls and bombs going off everywhere that would certainly light the fire of hatred
When this was filmed the Catholic population were getting a raw deal in Northern Ireland. Not long afterwards the civil rights movement started to address some of the issues.
Protestant felt he was Irish when went to Britain & British when went to the Republic.
This confused identity still exists.
I was actually in Belfast in 1965 (I'm from California). My maternal grandfather was born in Ballymena, County Antrim, in 1894, and he left for America around 1909, long before the partition.
So what's your assessment of the views expressed in this video? Are they representative of the people you knew then?
@@AdrianColley I had very little contact with the people of Northern Ireland at that time. A later visit to Ireland in 1967 gave me more contact. At that time I was able to circumnavigate the island by auto. I stayed at one bed and breakfast in the Republic which was owned by a Methodist woman, who told me she did not feel disadvantaged by living in an overwhelmingly Catholic country.
Banoff, you happen to have Slavic ancestry, do you not?
@@Danevv My paternal grandfather was born in Poltava, now in Ukraine, then in the Russian Empire. He left Kiev in 1905 to emigrate to America. My paternal grandmother was from near Minsk. They met in the USA. The family name was originally Bogdanoff.
Work with a few people from Ballymena currently. Some of them have that infamous regional accent.
I feel sorry for the guy at the end of the clip, he's in the wrong time and place altogether
Nice atmosphere and interesting perspectives and people.
What a great report i must say
i can hear the difference between catholic and protestant in their accents
Interesting point of view from the last guy interviewed. He didn't didn't feel British in Britain and didn't feel Irish in the Republic so he is primarily an Ulsterman
A beautiful part of the world, North and south. Long may it stay peaceful, please God!
I'm Irish and i live in England.I love it here. Nobody gives a shit about anything.
Glad you like living here! Guess we are pretty relaxed about things..
😅 I've been trying to understand more about Northern Ireland/Brexit. British/English news wasn't covering it. So, I was reading online Irish news. And went down an Irish history rabbit hole. Learning about names, dates and wars. Things I had never heard of. I don't think I'm ever going to understand Irish history. Or the impact of British Empire. But, I have a better understanding of the present issues.
Don't bother. It's a load of clapped out shite.
this should be compulsory viewing nationwide ... the way peoples identity being so confused and deliberately undermined is one of the major catalysts for 'the troubles' that were just around the corner for these people and all the way through my youth in belfast.
what a waste, what a disaster. its not even over yet, more 'wall' in belfast today than berlin ever had.
can there ever be peace, when there is no meaningful integration? i cant see how thats possible :/
Yes and Berlin is great place now but Belfast is still a shithole.
It's disappointing that things were so divided back then but tensions were destined to boil over because of the way the state had been put together and lack of equality if we are being honest. I agree there is still scepticism and division in places, typically in frontier communities but most of society has moved on and couldn't care less what the person next door was baptised as or what they associate with culturally. We are a more open minded and accommodating society now and that's a fact. Maybe I'm a bit sheltered but none of my friends or family (from either background) would tolerate any sectarianism or bigotry. The real problem in this place is the politicians we have. I hate the 2 main parties. All they do is stoke up their constituents, pick at old wounds and sow seeds of doubt so they can all get their cushy jobs and go back to being pally pally behind the scenes. Anyway that's my 2 cents.
@@stewartdahamman you missed the point so entirely, i find it hard to believe you have the sense to discern what constitutes a 'shithole'
are you even from belfast? have you ever even been to belfast?
@@cerberus1321 people keep saying how everything changed, but the numbers don't lie. those new walls have been erected at the behest of the people. i can only restate my original point, there is still no meaningful integration.
i agree with you about the politicians though.
@@longshotkdb I suppose you are right in that no 'meaningful' integration exists. I still think there is a lot more of a balance across society now though. If we take the work environment as an example people work together at every level. It's not top or bottom heavy and that's the biggest demographic. I don't have any kids yet but my best mate is from the opposite background as me and is in a mixed marriage raising 2 kids. He tells me that there has to be integrated education from the bottom up if people are going to move forward together. Maybe he's right. Most of the 'better' schools (for lack of a better word) are single sex single religion at secondary level and single religion at primary. I'm not sure how you would fix that though due to catchment areas and the demographics involved with the geography. Maybe they need incentivised financially on a tiered system. The more balanced you are the more you get 🤷♂️
As a Northerner living in the South for 28 years I can tell you for a fact that the police here and the military personnel hate your guts regardless if you are protestant or catholic. I have never seen so much abuse in my life as especially from the police force here when it comes to Northerners. Before you say anything I have worked in many pubs over the years and seen plenty of people deliberately being targeted by police for simply being Northern. I have seen them assaulted on numerous occasions and told to fk off back up the North etc. Plenty of videos on youtube of Irish guards assaulting even women on this site Facebook etc. They are absolutely abhorrent and criminal for the most part.
Sorry about your experience fella never had a run in in my life here
Sinn Fein are talking about a new Ireland, more than a United Ireland. Just like North got rid of RUC, the South will need rid/massive reform of the Guarda when the time comes for Border poll.
Totally agree.
This is quite enlightening
The gentleman we see at 1:57 is fascinating, very thoughtful, and aware of his own distinct Ulster identity. His accent today seems to veer between Ulsterman and David Cameron.
1:40 TH-cam autogenerated subtitles.
"We can practice our religion quite freely, without any Hindus"
Pakistani:
@@andrewmannson7543 Pakistan is majority muslim, India more like it.
@@eamondo1076 That's the joke. Pakistan was created to be a Muslim-majority country separate from the Hindu-majority India.
How things changed.
Very interesting.
The last man was well spoken and expressed himself perfectly, even if he was a bit conflicted... it is understandable...We probably were too subservient to the RCC for decades, if not centuries, things have changed though...with a little change from both sides, we can live in peace and relative prosperity...God willing..."
I’m a Glasgow Proddy, I wish you all peace and relative prosperity.
"...things have changed though."
"....God willing"
@@wuddadid not sure what you're implying by this. Things have changed, but it doesn't mean you can't be religious.
the RCC was too powerful in the 20th century for sure. Prior to that? not so much.
@@peppiping I was just pointing out the irony
Some seriously profound reflections from that last gent.
As a Catholic from Belfast (Catholic first, any political leanings much, much later), I fully understand this man's perspective.
Having worked in Dublin for half of the last decade, while I'm accepted as Irish, it's a different sort of Irish... and I certainly don't feel British.
Ulster/NI/North of Ireland/... Belfast and the surrounding fields..! that's what it's all about 😅☘️
Cos you are an Ulsterman regardless of religion, same as I am from the south of England and despite being English like a Yorkshireman there is a distinct difference in accent and attitude.
@@aldozilli1293 yes fully get it.
It’s our little nuanced differences that make our unique identities and cultures so colourful. In a world where things are being pushed in a robotic nature with ever increasing globalism and the erosion of culture, our unique characteristics are more important than ever to cherish👌🏼👌🏼
@Caden Patton Hamilton 100%. It would be great if we learned more about our history in school. There’s so much ignorance of history before the start of the troubles (myself included in not knowing enough)
My mother is from NI Catholic, and my dad is from the south, where we grew up. While I see my maternal family as Irish, it’s different. They’ve been brought up differently, for one thing, they are much more religious than we are. Most people I know in the Republic under 40, place a lot less importance on religion while up there it’s a major part of life still. I find they’re are more conservative even outside religion e.g less open to immigrants
I'm from Essex in England and a proper Southern lad but I travel a lot for work across these islands. I am consistently surprised at essentially how similar we all are even in the Republic. I feel as conspicuously out of place in somewhere like Leeds as I do in Glasgow or Belfast yet once you get over the superficial accent difference, we're all basically the same. Plus the differences that do exist are gradients not hard borders. Crossing the border from Emgland into Scotland there's no actual difference and aside from the signs you wouldn't know you'd crossed a border. These islands and their peoples feel whole to me rather than separate.
Interesting to hear the views of the guy who suddenly felt Irish after going to London. My parents migrated from Belfast to London in the early fifties. In the days of ‘no blacks no Irish’ in landlords’ windows, my Dad had to pretend to be Canadian so they could rent a place. The not so good old days....
Bullshit.
That sign (shown on bbc intended to be shocking) has been spoken about so often, people now believe it.. Not one of my relatives who arrived in the 50's saw a sign like that.. Only heard about it.. AFTER the documentary was aired but not at the time ..
Ulster Scots Presbyterians get dose of reality in Britain especially England.
It would be interesting seeing people's viewpoints today..
“Ulstermen have been a separate entity since as long Ireland has been an Island” was a perfect end to the video. He summarises how unique this part of the world is. Sadly many here, who have a selective view of history and culture, don’t see it that way!
Gas thing is Loyalists (and Shoneens like yourself) talk about how Ulster isn't historically part of Ireland through one corner of your mouths and talk about "Scotland" through the other. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@BerghemDeSura as an Irishman and Nationalist, I don't think I can speak for loyalists or shoneens... but I think it's fair to refer to "Scotland" and "Northern Ireland" separately whilst still understanding the history behind them. I was more thinking about Ulster Irish and the traditional music styles we have here. From experience, that highlights our differences!
How have ulster's been different as long as there was a ireland they've literally on been there since the plantations
are you saying there isnt regional characteristics in all parts of ireland ? is Cork the same as Dublin? Is Galway the same as Belfast? if you're claim ulster is unique then muster is unique , leinster is unique , connacht is unique
I moved from Tyrone to England in 1986 and I've met very few people who give a toss about the union with N.I. Unionists in the province have a massively inflated sense of the popularity of the idea of continued union with GB among the general GB population.
It's called a siege mentality, Gibraltar has it too (Also Hong Kong except that their siege is an active one, but it was the same as the others in the decades before 97). Considering British policymaking parliament is lucky to still control any land outside of the Westminster WC's. They have in the past tried to shake off both NI and the rock being dissuaded by considerably resistance in Gib and the threat of a bloodbath Northern Ireland. They have also tried undermining the Falklands before and refused a union with Malta in the 50's despite it being a strategic lynchpin of the Mediterranean because other ex-colonies might have tried the same, it makes you wonder how they ended up with anything to lose in the first place when the ruling class seem to have universally mandated lobotomys to go with their rectal head coverings.
Yeah we really couldnt care, it's their problem ... if they wana join the republic they can go ahead if they wish ... it's just the goverment who care the ordinary person wouldnt even know what a NI unionist is tbh
When the average NI protestant has it drummed into him/her that they are a bit special and even superior to their brothers/sisters south of the border over many generations, its hard to shake that mindset. Like that man said, he only discovered that he was Irish when he went to the UK mainland. To the everyday English or Welsh, they are all Paddies from Ireland.
So true 👍 🇮🇪
Yes, I think It is the same attitude that brought about brexit. Back in the day, particularly in England, the education system brought their kids up on a diet of empire, monarchy, pith helmets and Spitfires - which, I think, sometimes makes it harder for them to absorb the realities of the modern world and their place in it. Large sections of their media don't help. It has left, particularly older Brits, with delusions of superiority and it may take some time for future generations to get over that mindset.
Lived in England for years. So many English people have a degree of Irish ancestry that on the whole they view the Irish as indigenous to Britain. In fact the 1949 Ireland Act deems Irish people 'not foreign' to Britain.
@@andrewdevine6333 "Not foreign" in official parlance, but we are pigeon holed as "not one of us" as soon as we open our mouth (accent)
@@andrewdevine6333 Britons where originally celtic people believe it or not way back ..
Scots where irish settlers on the west coast of what later became Scotland
True there's so much intertwined history between both islands but I believe we're two separate nations an deserve the right to be so ..
The gentleman at the end sums up the dilemma of Northern Ireland
In fairness the grip by the church in the 60s was off the radar
As an English man with ancestry from the irish south and friends from the north these interviews are fascinating. We're all family but it's a bit complicated .
It is a bit, but it's only when you go to main land Europe, that you realize how much the Irish English, and Northern folks have in common...not just the language either...the way we think, act, and view the world....
@@sherp2u1 I think you're right . I live in Norfolk which isn't that far from Holland and Belgium. But I feel much more connected with people from Dundee and Galway and Swansea and Belfast . We share a sense of humour + common culture ( we drink tea and watch coronation street ) . The history in these islands wasn't always happy but the present and future are good . Also love our continental cousins as well .
tribal war
How are u an English man if your ancestry is irish
@@ilqar887 born in england
This is weird to watch in seeing many of issues that divide us still do and the last man who thinks like me who doesn't really understand if he is Irish or British or what northern Ireland really is.
Fascinating.
WOW! just WOW!
As a Brit, I was shocked at how hostile the people were towards me and my partner when we visited Cork about 15 years ago.
They clearly hate our guts.
I couldnt wait to leave.
@MsMissy give us an example.
@Fíonán Murphy shut it paddy there's clearly a significant part of the population there that wouldn't want it for there to be a United Ireland and would resort to violence to prevent it. Take back all the irish from Britain and we'll take the Ulster Protestants.
@Fíonán Murphy You speak for Northern Ireland?
shut up you fool...
@MsMissy what happened then ??
I feel like the moderate Catholic man, happy with the way things are :) our wee country isn't too bad compared to elsewhere
I feel the exact same. I think some Catholics in NI are so quick to dismiss their 'Northern irishness' but like him it's something I'm proud of. NI is home and there's no place quite like it.
The North of Ireland isn't a country. It's a failed statelet.
@@Maxsmate agreed and I only realised that when I left :)
@@paddymuppy well Northern Ireland is technically a compromise and failed or not has lasted 100 years. Now it stands as an alternative to both Ireland and Britain and frankly it is better for it.
@@VectorTracker It literally isn't better off for it. Ireland has a much higher standard of living than the UK (second highest quality of life in the world) Higher pay, Better roads, infrastructure.
The North of Ireland is the most deprived part of the UK.
The UK is in the deepest recession of any developed country in the world.
Ireland is the only country in Europe who's economy grew in 2020.
www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-ranked-second-in-the-world-for-quality-of-life-beating-sweden-germany-and-uk-1.4440009
www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-only-eu-economy-to-grow-in-2020-1.4482192
Fascinating that most southern Irish would now agree with the protestant analysis regarding the catholic church.
We hate the catholic Church now we just want unity because it makes sense and is easier
In 1965, the Irish television/radio service chose to air 2 hours of just religious programming on their radio and television service on Good Friday. Acting as if it were a national day of mourning every year, all down to the catholic church, instructing Telefis Eireann/Radio Eireann to do it. This wouldn't be abolished until 1969.
Ulstermen/Ulsterwomen are spread over 9 counties, not 6 counties.
Northern Ireland is part of Ulster but is not all of it. Very interesting interviews on 'both' sides despite the fact that Irish society was bilaterally divided religiously. However the reality was more complicated in the past due to the fact that the Penal Religious Laws were directed against the Non-Conformist Religions as well as against the Catholic Religion. However the 'Ulster Custom' was invoked to give more secure land tenure to Non-Confirmists than to Catholics.
Don't let it be forgotten that Britain was the last Western Nation to grant Universal Suffrage - in its Northern Irish Territory - and this they did only following massive civil protest.
@@MrResearcher122 No, as I made a show of you elsewhere in this section. O’Neils were in control both Meath and the North West. Armagh, south Down and Louth were in a kingdom called Oriel at this time. Antrim and North Down in another kingdom, descended from a group called the Ulaid, who came from central Munster, who also had another off shoot called the Laigin - both these groups and their mother group were part of the Érainn, who give Ireland its name in Irish, and the Ulaid and Laigin give Ulster and Leinster there respective names.
The capital of the north was Tara in Meath. The capital of the south, Cashel in Tipperary. This was the Leath Éireann identity that formed the foundation for the contention of the bards, the last throws of Gaelic culture in 1600s.
So, as before, on your bike you foreigner😉
Not sure about your statement about Universal Suffrage as women did not get the vote in national elections in Switzerland until 1971 and not in all local elections until 1991 (sic). Interestedly enough the last canton to hold out was Appenzell Innerrhoden which had broken away originally due to most of the residents being Roman Catholic.
Interesting
the northern Protestants were all spot on about the Catholic Church in the south !!
The majority of Brits don't particularly care nor want them and the same for the South of Ireland......that's the fact of the matter
British: *Shhhh the fuck man* 😂😂😂🤫
Well living as a resident of Northern Ireland I don't want to be part of either.
I was watching a Graham Norton interview, who was Irish (republic) but church of Ireland (protestant) growing up, he said his family were never considered to be 'real' irish by catholics. I think the Catholic Church has been one of the main obstacles to uniting ireland.
I'm a Southern Protestant and I have to say I felt the same but less so nowadays ... It's a bigger world nowadays and we have other problems.
It's not becouse they are Catholic it's becouse their ancestors were not native to Ireland (that's Irish view of northern Irish)they are right intact to them how could Irish man wave British flag
@@ilqar887 Graham Norton was from the South ... not the North.
@@theeggtimertictic1136 yeah I'm just referring to why southern Irish describe protestants(Protestant Irish) non Irish .I don't know why they didnt consider Graham Norton family Irish
@@ilqar887 They don't consider us non Irish but may as Irish as Catholics ... It's gone better in recent years though. Also there's categories for Catholic Irish too because all Catholics arn't the same . The most Irish of Irish would be if you are Catholic mass going , into GAA, play Irish music and speak fluent Irish 😁
They were right about the catholic church having a hold on the South at the time and for the next few decades.
Well. Yes. That’s a common Protestant point of view in Britain. Catholics love a good church. A bit too much. But let’s be honest we fucked with their peace NOT the other way round. The Catholics in Northern Ireland got a hard time and a few went militant over it. So the Protestant NI majority seeked vengeance and it was tit for tat for years. The British almost always had the upper hand from an economics point of view, intelligence and strategic perspective as well. If Ireland had thrown money at the Catholic cause then maybe it could’ve been fairer but the Brits were way too strong in hindsight. Geography doesn’t lie though and at some point (as we all know), we (Britain, predominantly Scots) went to Ireland and carved out a chunk of it for ourselves. I feel very sorry for this as i love all things Irish. They have such a romantic, tragic but rich history. Can you imagine if Ireland joined Britain before Empire days? We would’ve had a friend for life and shared the spoils. We could’ve gone into battle as allies and not bitter enemies. Instead what we got was the seething cesspit of religious bigotry and mistrust that Northern Ireland became.
Hope we give it back one day. It’s not ours. It’s geographically part of the Republic of Ireland. I get that the Protestants are ingrained in Northern Ireland and some families are three and four hundred years in generationally, but the way they behaved was not the behaviour of a tenant living on rented land. It was the behaviour of a farmer with a wolf in his field. Britain on the mainland in the 80s and 90s always found militant Protestants from NI a bit too intense and embarrassing. Very bigoted and confrontational. Made you feel sorry for Catholics living in the same area as them. You could just tell they were terrorised and bullied by these thugs. Every now and they would lash out in the form of the IRA doing something. But day to day, the Protestants lauded it over the Catholics for years and it was shameful behaviour. People like Ian Paisley were products of generations and generations of religious bias and bigotry. When the people bought into these figures, the Troubles had hit a new all time low.
The dreary puritanism of post-Catholic Ireland is even worse.
Is that you davey?
That's not an opinion out of observation. That is the narrative that was drilled into them as far back as the introduction of the penal laws when Catholicism was outlawed.
As does the protestant church in Britain to this day. Protestant only prime minister and protestant only head of state, in fact their head of state is also head of a church.
Fascinating
Some really interesting views there, on the falls road I did not expect what they said, not a real enthusiasm for a UI. The troubles had a lot for changing their minds I think.
The economic situation was the real catalyst. You never had major support for a UI among Catholics before the 1990’s. They just wanted to not be discriminated against.
But once the republic became the economic powerhouse it is now, that changed everything. The north is such a backwater now compared to the republic, that almost no Catholics under 40 are opposed to reunity unlike the older generations who were a bit watery on it.
@@ckpalmeiras1318 the Republic couldn't afford Northern Ireland welfare bill, after the troubles tonnes of people on dla government payments be a huge black hole, although as a protestant myself I think it's already been agreed for United Ireland probably next 10 years
@@careyscates3516 The Republic views the north as an investment. At the end of the day, it’s mostly on the top quality east coast of Ireland, rather than the rocky and barren west coast.
The economy of the north east has been destroyed by partition, with it being reduced to just getting a grant every year, which makes everyone depressed. No one likes the idea that they’re from a shit place that can’t pay its own way.
Think the Republic will do the easy part first and make Antrim and Down and Armagh centres of investment for all the high tech stuff that floods into the Republic. Those areas are already really close to the Greater Dublin Area.
Then they’ll probably link Derry to Dublin via motorway, like they did with every city in the south to Dublin. Which was a game changer for the likes of Limerick.
We’ll have to see, but I think it’s exciting times.
@@ckpalmeiras1318 I love to see Catholics and Protestants living next door again, like it was when my granny was growing up, divide and conquer same old trick the controllers use. I live in Mexico now but always watch closely back home,
@@careyscates3516 The religion has gone mostly at this stage. It’s down to what it always has really been, Irish & British.
I’m not a bigot, but I feel if you want to go round calling yourself British, then go live in Britain. It’s like where you are in Mexico, lots of people originally came from Spain, but you don’t hear anyone calling themselves Spanish or trying to say the place they live in is in Spain!
I'm an American, but I relate to the last guy as well. Its a shame people who see the man who feels different from those in Britain and the republic and twist that for their own political ends. Makes me think they've never left their house. I'd like to say that I've lived in and visited numerous states in the U.S. in my 26 years, and people in different states are much more distinct in their speech and habits than you may think. Things may not have been perfect in my home town, but I've felt like a foreigner to one extent or another every place I've lived since. Even in the city I live in now, for as much as it's a better home for me and as much as I've gone native, there are times when im clearly reminded I'm a transplant. I don't have deep roots here and don't know the land as well. Despite that, I felt even more out of place in my old home when I went back to visit. I just didn't belong there anymore.
cunny
@@fyrdman2185 huh??
Lol. Americans always have to but in and make everything about the US.
He got on fine in England and felt comfortable. As all Ulstermen are. He merely said the English thought of him as Irish. Which he was! The UK like the US is made up of many parts. In the USA you get different kinds of American but they are still American. It’s the same in the UK.
I can't quite make out what Velma's (Scooby-doooooooo) saying, sounds like "Well I'm protestant and I think the catholic history bigga harthchu... [trails off like she's remembered something]"
I think she's saying: "Well I'm a Protestant and I think the Catholic (Church) has too big of a hand in the south of Ireland."
I identify so much with the last speaker.
Fascinating. Little did they know what was coming a few years down the line.
To be fair all spot on with the Catholic church stranglehold stuff.
Does anyone recognise any of the interviewers voices? The last interviewers voice reminds me of BBC NIs Harry Thompson who came from Bangor.
Cripes, it would be nice if someone worked on the audio. I know they recorded this 60 years ago, but it's not 1965 NOW.
I was raised in Texas. My mom’s side of the family were Ulster Scots arriving in the United States in the 1750s. I lived in Scotland as a teen because my dad was from there. I was baptized Church of Scotland/Presbyterian. My dad used to say “people kind of look down on Catholics.“ He was not too damned fond of the Irish either. Those attitudes rub off on kids.
Fast forward. I married a Catholic girl. Raised two Catholic children that went through 12 years of Catholic school. In 2009, I converted to Catholicism. Now I am an SSPX Traditional Roman Catholic. Attitudes change. 😊
Weird religious people
Sad, your after joining a cult.
@@swissnorvanzyl3734 no worse than the Presbyterian cult really. Just one to another.
@@thisguy976 Your totally brainwashed.
@@thisguy976 It would be far better if we all believed in a European form of Shinto and we were all secular humanists.