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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- My frustration with Ari Aster has officially reached its limit, so it's time to talk about it.
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#Hereditary #Midsommar #meeptop #AriAster #horror #A24 #videoessay #filmanalysis #analysis
description tags: Ari Aster, A24, Midsommar, Hereditary, horror, film analysis, video essay, please don't hate me for this, suck, bad, good, amazing, critic, critique, beeg yoshi
I think the point of the director wanting us to root for Dani and choose to kill Christian was so we'd really fall for the idea of the cult being good to prove the point of cults in general. We and Dani are so focused on how bad of a person Christian is that it blinds to how terrible the cult is, mimicking the way cults work in real life: they target emotionally vulnerable people because they're the easiest to convert.
I mean he didnt deserve to be burned alive he wasnt a terrible person just not a good guy I hated this movie
@@accidiaet That's the point. He didn't deserve to die, but the cult influenced her to act on emotion just like real cults. It amazes me that people think that this movie ends with a happy ending for women. Dani is obviously in the wrong, and the movie ends with a bad ending.
Damn that's good, well said
@@samsunggamer6661 the way toxic men relate to characters like The Joker, toxic women miss the point of this movie and enjoy the ending.
@pwabd2784 every side of the argument is correct if they look at the few outliers. There's always going to be people that think the movie ends happily but there are way more people that recognize that she is in an even worse situation than she realizes
With midsommar, I always believed we were supposed to hold on to the point the Dani has no one else. As much as you hate the relationship, it would completely destroy Dani one last time if the only person she had left dumped her. It’s the feeling of wanting it to stay together until Dani can move on from her grief enough to find new people to hold on to.
yup ive been there
It’s ashamed that the cult made her think that Christian stopped being with her because they drugged him and R worded him. He might’ve been a jerk, but cmon, man didn’t deserve the fare he got
That would make sense but she has friends. She was on the phone with one in the beginning of the movie
@@yourbabytee
I think it is pretty clear that in her depression after the fmdeaths of her family, her friends deserted her, unable to take the intensity, just as Christian and his friends were won’t to do.
yes! and it was a good film. that ending which is shocking somehow makes sense.
I like that she is flat. Trauma does that to you. You're 24/7 living in between worlds (the present and the PTSD symptoms) and you lose yourself, your personality, everything. You're just sad and jumpy and scared all the time and unable to make any kind of decision because you know you're not in a place to make life altering moves, even if you hate where you are. You're miserable but miserable Is "safe".
wait. why are you so good at explaining my situation.
She's relatable lol
...well, that's scarily reminiscent.
But does that make for a good film? Toni Collette was certainly traumatized and she was anything but flat.
"Miserable is safe" good lord, with that one statement i think you've captured a lot of peoples' experiences my friend
I watched Hereditary by myself in my house in the dark. By the end I had my mouth agape and never seen a horror movie that made me feel that type of way. Idc if it’s flawed. It was an amazing experience.
Same. I've never seen horror movie that made me curl my toes, tremble, or want to scream out loud. Horrifying. And especially that sweet, sweet twist at the end. Like with midsommar, I almost felt relief at the end. Charlie was back, Peter was "safe", and the assailants had what they wanted. Except what they wanted was for the king of unspeakable suffering to be incarnate on Earth.
Come on dude it wasn't that great lol
@@donaldhysa4836
It just hit at the right time for me I guess
@@thegamejunky7223 Read some Junji Ito mangas
Same, it was the first time I had to stop a movie ( after Charlie's death) to think about what tf just happened, I was genuinely horrified, especially by the behavior of the brother and the mother discovering her body the next day... It felt soo creepy and real
In Midsomar, I don't think you have to buy their relationship, you have to buy that she "needed" him only because she lost her family.
Exactly ! The fact the she keeps trying to stick the pieces back together in this weird relationship, despite him not caring at all, Show us that she would do anything to not be alone at that moment in her life.
@@leobellevue3848the problem is that she herself doesn't do anything on her end at any point. She just exists with him, even when he does a bad attempt at helping
@@stefanoraffo5096 Isn't that what happens when you feel like you have no options. She just lost both her parents and her sister. So at this point Christian is like her last piece of family. You don't see how traumatizing that is ?
And add to that the fact that she is far from home, stuck in a strange cult where they do everything in their power to endoctrinate her (they even kill people who try to leave).
Acting coherently in this situation is way harder then you think.
Yeah exactly I think it's about Dani's loneliness & lack of any community or support system. She's reliant on him bc she has literally nobody else, and later she believes her only hope of finding people who care about her is by joining the cult.
No one said you should buy the relationship, I just think the movie was not very good and communicated its message in such a contrived and pretentious way. Marriage Story was so much better in how it portrayed a break up and how both sides have their own merits and flaws. Bringing in this cult was just adding in so much unneeded shock and discomfort to the story and it just felt unnecessary.
I did not miss any multilayeredness in Christian's character, quite the opposite: I doubt the film would even work with him being overly sympathyzable. He isn't even a true villain, he is just a mediocre selfish coward. Yet he grabs our attention and disdain so fully, that we consider the only true villain in the movie - the serene, cunning, wire-pulling Pelle - a worthwhile alternative or even a saviour. And we even consider siding with Dani and her bloodthirsty "family" when Christian is immolated as a literal scapegoat (scapebear?) for the community's unfathomable evil. We consider Dani "liberated" when she has irreversibly sacrificed her only true need: genuine self-love, independence and the power to stand up for herself.
To me Midsommar is a masterpiece on how the avoidance of ambiguity, moral uncertainty and genuine independence make us susceptible to ideological (including fascist) indoctrination. We want the darkness contained while we hallucinate purity - just like the sun never sets on Hårga.
I definitely think this is an incredibly thoughtful analysis and this is what I wish I could've taken away from the film. I think I'd be more receptive to this interpretation if Ari Aster presented the film with more character depth and layers toward the beginning of the film, then have it boil down to the simplistic as we make our way to the tragic ending. It's entirely a personal thing, obviously, but the way the film is presented just doesn't equate my emotional experience to this viewpoint. Either way though, I think this is an excellent take and I'm genuinely glad you were able to have that experience!
@@meeptopThank you. I don't think there is just one interpretation or a clear message to the movie. And I wouldn't consider mine the most important. Of course it makes sense to look at it as a breakup drama, a personal growth story, a surreal phantasy or maybe even a sarcastic teenage horror parody. What makes the film so disturbing is someone trying to do the right thing in an environment where literally everybody and everything is clearly wrong or pretense - a mere conspiracy. We might cling to shallow feelings of justice, revenge and liberation but in the end they are just as delusional as the main character's views.
Exactly! This movie to me is about white supremacy and the banality of evil as much as it’s about the catharsis and grief of a codependent relationship ending. I also think the characters are flat because it’s really meant to be a fable/fairy tale.
I don't think I picked up on Pelle's manipulation the first time I watched midsommar, it wasn't until I watched it a second time a few years later with more life experience to sus that kind of thing out. It's so heart wrenching and scary to see a person so vulnerable and in need of genuine support like Dani go through what she does knowing that no one there has her best interest in mind, yet are able to manipulate her into believing they do for their own desires
@@Bonpu this comment kind of makes me wonder if perhaps he shouldn’t have tried combining his “anatomy of a breakup” movie and his “the mechanisms of fascist indoctrination” movie. I wonder what we’d have gotten if he hadn’t
I think you're missing something important about Midsommar, which is that, yes, their relationship is garbage and that's clear the whole time, but *people do stay in relationships like this*. You spend the whole movie waiting for one of them to just accept and admit that it needs to be over, and at the end you're in the fucked up position of having the catharsis of it finally ending being the result of her seeing over his immolation and her absorption into a cult as her being "free" from it. Their terrible relationship is the (well, one of, and the primary remaining) reason she gets pulled in. She goes from being absolutely disgusted by these people to presiding over their ritual because she sees sacrificing him as her freedom.
It's about how hard it is (for some people) to let themselves get out of abusive and toxic relationships; until she was sucked into a cult she was never able to finally escape that cycle of accepting that shitty relationship over and over, and maybe she never would have.
I have a lot of women friends who repeatedly dive into cycles of abuse like this and have so much self loathing and disconnection that they keep staying until it's unbearable, so to me, the fact that it took being crowned in a death cult to finally give her the strength to move on from that obviously horrible relationship is extremely poignant.
I see now I'm not the only person who's made this point lol
Sadly, she didn't even move on. She just exchanged one abuser for another.
People who only knew how to be in a toxic environment do not know how it is to be out of it. It's sad but it's true that this had become their comfort blanket.
Absolutely agree. I bet a lot of us have dated someone like Christian. Being with someone who is manipulative and gaslights you is very confusing. It's hard to leave
PERFECTLY said! 👏🏻🔥
Damn both ya'll just articulated exactly the two (rather unconscious still as I've seen Midsomer twice n intially was using it for aesthetic inspiration/demostration for work) most poyaint intuitions about this, regardless, conceptually brilliant film. I'm there are so many others who still appreciate film on all the subtle levels the artist very idiosyncratically and even unconscious-Archetypally birthed into these transcendent experiences they so tediously poured themselmselves into.
I viewed Paimon as the physical manifestation of intergenerational trauma/abuse. Annie spends the whole film desperately trying to protect her family from Ellen (and Paimon). She watched how Ellen pushed her brother, Charles, to suic!de. When she was pregnant with Peter, she distanced herself from Elle, but felt guilty and allowed her back after the birth of Charlie. During this time, Ellen puts Paimon into Charlie, resulting in the distancing once again. After Ellen's death, Annie feels confused and unsettled, like people are watching her or plotting against her, but she is resistant to open up about it. Then, Charlie dies suddenly, and Annie is distraught. In her compounded grief (and release of Paimon), she blames Peter and distances herself from her husband, falling deeper into isolation and aggression. She and Peter have repeated nightmares, but instead of explosive moments like Annie, Peter descends into apathy. Steve is desperately trying to hold everything together. Annie tries to get them to believe there is a something happening, but Steve thinks Annie is making it all up. Steve dies after Annie attempts to sacrifice herself to end it, allowing Paimon the final push to take over her to atttack Peter. Upon Peter seeing Annie's gruesome end, he also attempts suic!de, but it was unsuccessful and Paimon takes over him too. Ellen being "secretive" and "manipulative", the consistent suic!des, Peter's affinity for substances, and the cult's beliefs that Paimon will bring them honor, wealth, and knowledge and "bind all men to their will" also fit into this idea. The inescapable nature is hinted at many times, but I feel it is most glaringly obvious when Peter is in English class and they discuss Oedipus Rex, debating whether it is more or less tragic that the characters did not even have a chance to change their fate. Many people that experience trauma, specifically parental abuse, describe it as if they never stood a chance of being a healthy person, as if they inherited a curse they fear they will pass to their own children. Since the movie is bookended with Annie's miniatures, I saw it as her experience of succumbing to and perpetuating the generational curse, regardless of how hard she tried to fight it.
Yup, spot on. The number one rule of movies is every time there is a classroom scene, whatever is discussed will always be the central theme of the movie (only half joking).
But really, one of the main horrors of the film is that the family never had a chance. The cult was pulling the strings the whole time. There is even a satanic symbol on the telephone pole, that kind of implies the cult always intended that to be where Charlie is killed.
Meep even says that Toni Collette's character loses her humanity as a result of her trauma.
We see that literally happen with her son.
This is probably one of the best takes I've heard about Hereditary. Overall it was a subpar movie but the acting and cinematography were so good that it tricked people into thinking the story was amazing when it wasn't. Your description of what it represented was one of the best ways I've heard a rationalization of the ridiculous concepts in the movie.
@@MarshmallowEclipse I'll have to disagree with you, everything they say is actually canon and the story itself was very great and creative
What is that about my emergency food?
anyone who says "i didnt like that the ending of hereditary was supernatural" didn't play close attention to the rest of the movie or only watched one time. The supernatural stuff is a BIG part of the WHOLE movie.
I saw all the supernatural elements and ended up calling the twist, but it was so fucking obvious I thought it would fake me out. That’s my bad, but I was still pretty disappointed when it got to the ending. It was like all the momentum and the curiosity crashed into a wall and now we’re watching a demon summoning. Cool.
I’m glad other people like it because it was a beautiful catalyst for an evolution of the genre, but I was hoping for something more like the Babadook where the supernatural elements were more of a manifestation of all the tension and turmoil the family was experiencing and it just being real feels like it cheapens the real world experiences and feelings that I just spent the whole movie caring about because it was all being puppeteered by demon worshippers who are horrible at staying hidden.
Side note: while I agree with his opinions on Hereditary, I disagree about Midsommar, that shit’s GOATed
Is the twist that it was supernatural or that the family had 0 agency in the entire film? I look at hereditary as a modern version of a greek tragedy where the character is unable to do anything to their fate and taking steps to run away from it merely brings it into existence.
@@GeneralFang252ye but it’s not really a twist, it’s just completing what was set up in the whole movie. i personally think hereditary is far batter than midsomar, the attention to detail in hereditary is just astounding, subtle uses of colour theory and background characters that signify the presence of a demon or cult members is amazing. so you aren’t smart because you saw the “plot twist” coming because it was set up in a way for you to figure it out as you watched it, it all just came to a front at the end. also, i don’t like him saying it’s just rosemary’s baby because so many movie use the demon/cult idea to make a horror movie and it’s unfair to say one is copying another.
Indeed. Pretty lazy criticism.
If the supernatural elements weren’t in hereditary. It’d be a dramatic tragedy. It really wouldn’t be horror anymore
And Toni would have won that Oscar
Exactly what I was thinking. It would just be really depressing. Without the ending there isn’t any horror element.
Depends how you see horror as a definition
The supernatural elements were awful and comical.
@@zd91what kinda take is this? Unless you're just a hater of supernatural plots
I think the point of their relationship in midsommar is that you shouldn’t be rooting for the relationship at all, Dani should not be with him, he has no redeeming qualities he’s an ass and she should hate him, but he’s the only person she has left so she just can’t let it go. It’s less she wants to be with him and more she has to been with him. She can’t lose him because she’s lose EVERYTHING else, so she’s gonna overlook every single thing he does. She doesn’t love him she doesn’t like him, she needs him to not leave her and because of that she can’t fully state or recognize his shitty behavior. I think as a viewer it’s good to completely hate him and not see a single redeeming quality because it makes you question why she’s with him and then realize it’s because she needs him and cannot even imagine being alone, and when she has a “family” in the end she finally realizes she no longer needs to be with him.
THIS
Excuse me but those problems are her own with him, she could leave him too? Why kill him? He was totally manipulated, assaulted and then paralyzed and he was the best guy but didn't deserve to be killed the way he got.
@@shrutiwayne7440 She killed him because she too was manipulated and drugged up to the point of a mental break. Under normal circumstances, the break up would have been normal, but due to the machinations of the cult, she opted for an extreme.
Honestly I empathize more with the dude than Dani. Just think about it from another perspective. She really shouldn't be dating anyone in her state. It's far too draining. You even said she "needs him not to leave her." He wants to leave her, but he SYMPATHIZES with her situation and feels some obligation to "not leave her." Isn't that relatable at all to people? IDK it can be very difficult to keep the spark going when someone is so extremely emotionally draining.
@@kazunabe4288 Yeah, having someone depending their whole mental health stability on your it was always going to be unhealthy for everyone involved. It was never fair for Chris to be put on that situation, but he was and the movie makes it seem like he had it coming for not breaking up sooner with the girl who literally had her whole family killed.
Chris at worst was kind of a douche, he didn't deserved that kind of ending just like he didn't deserved to be raped, brainwashed and treated like that.
See I rather like the way Midsommar manipulates you into wanting that ending. How throughout the entire thing you are being made to sympathise with Dani, and being shown what an awful person Christian is, that when she makes the choice at the end you are cheering her on (or at least I was). And then you’re confronted with the reality of what that means like, “yeah, he’s a dick, but did he really deserve this nightmarish fate?”
This is why I found the film so interesting, I was completely surprised that people wanted Christian dead. I'm not sure whether it was me being male, my age or my personal experiences with someone with a codependent personality, but I felt kinda bad for Christians situation; even though he handled it horribly.
I remember I watched it through that lens afterwards and was completely horrified by how alluring the Cult suddenly became.
@@SantosAl It is interesting. Usually in movies I’m kinda tricked into rooting for the protagonist (shut up and dance black mirror episode ruined me lol) so I definitely fell into that my first viewing. At the end I almost felt hopeful for Dani… like that’s not good but I definitely find it interesting that I was manipulated into to thinking that. I really only focused on her throughout the first viewing and kinda emphasized with her but damn yeah once I thought about more critically and watched it multiple times I was like oh no yeah that sooo bad. The whole point was indoctrinate Dani and manipulate make her feel like she’s free from this relationship. Like making her think he cheated on her but really the cult basically SAed him. She’s the perfect target for a cult victim. But yeah I can’t stop feeling bad for Christian at the same time. It’s a really complicated situation like her family is dead that’d be “rude” to leave her 😅 but like they both don’t seem to actually like each other she’s just got no one else. Sorry long comment and lots of run on sentences I wrote this fast lmao
It was easier for me to sympathize with Christian as someone who has had to break up with someone who was suicidal. If he was a real dick he woulda been done with her sooner. There doesn’t always have to be a badguy. No different than how i have to avoid people who have anxiety as my natural energy and stimulus seeking behavior can trigger their anxiety. Neither of us are bad people, we are just bad for eachother due to being on different extremes.
I never really understood why people wanted Christian to die. The guys a pice of shit imo but in the ending it was clear he was raped but Dani didn’t see it that way which is why I don’t blame her. But we as an audience did so I never really understood why he was SOO hated
It really only works on mentally ill female viewers (which there are a lot of). Most normal people can acknowledge that the boyfriend is an asshole without believing he needs to meet that fate.
I'll be honest and overshare a little, but Hereditary absolutely speaks to me in a horrifying way. If it were just a movie about family issues then it wouldn't creep me out as much, and the reason for this is that I always suffered from heavy depression and bpd, but... I grew up thinking those things were results from demonic influences, since my family was always christian. I always have this fear of it really being a demon tormenting me, even if I'm currently agnostic, since having your entire life being controlled by an evil entity is a pretty despair inducing concept. This movie shows us this, and it's not just a case of possession, this prince of hell is literally manipulating the entire lives of this family, and it's so hopeless that one could almost say it's cosmic horror. You just feel so small.
Agree, I think If you took the supernatural element out of hereditary it wouldn’t really be horror anymore, I’m not saying there has to be monsters or something paranormal for a movie to be horror, but in this case without it I feel it would just be a really dark drama
To me the demonic element is a metaphor for the trauma inflicted on the family
Yep, gives me the same sense of dread as the show Dark, something about the concept of ordinary people being used and sacrificed like pawns is fucking terrifying to me, especially when it's all part of some bigger picture the characters can't grasp or influence, when they can't escape their fate no matter how hard they try
Exactly, I adore this movie for how it creates a feeling of hopelessness insignificance and I really wish more movies would tap into that. It's like existential in a way, because this greater being is controlling their fate and making their lives hell, it's terrifying to me but so fucking cool
Yes, this is what I imagine a demon would really be like, truly terrifying, not like some monster like is usually in supernatural horror demon films.
A relationship doesn’t need to prove it’s worth when you’re so immersed in your own trauma and grief. You can cling to a relationship that’s clearly terrible for years and years because you are not processing the trauma that caused you to cling to that relationship in the first place. A relationship can also be super shitty, and you can still grieve it immensely. If your parent was super abusive to you and they pass away, you can still grieve the person you lost because despite how they valued you, you valued them.
The problem is, I found Midsommar super pretentious and boring. Almost nothing happens, and when something happens it just felt contrived and just made to shock me rather than have a good time.
Comments like this is why I avoid women. PSYCHOPATH
Yeah he had a bad take here, after seeing how my mom was after the abuse she suffered at the hands of her now ex husband he dropped the fucking ball on this one!
@@captainhowlerwilson508it’s more so about the influence that cult brainwashing has on one, literally they try to spin it at no one has your best interest at heart but us!
Okay but nowhere did he say any of what you said is false. He is talking about narratively, how to get your audience invested in your characters. I grew up with parents who hate each other. They never have good moments. I know exactly what it looks like when people cling to misery for the sake of comfortable knowing. It's extremely common. I don't think meep is wrong to say that when writing a STORY, you need to emotionally invest your audience. Hereditary is a perfect example. We rarely have moments in that movie where any of the family are good to each other. Most of the film is comprised of pretty toxic and abusive and unhealthy behavior on all sides. But you still get emotionally invested in the characters bc we spend time with them and understand them deeply as characters. That's the issue with Dani and Christian. It's not that they didn't "prove their worth", it's that we as audience members don't get deeper than surface level understanding of them as people or of their relationship and it results in zero emotional response at the climax of this film that is SUPPOSED TO by its directors own words, reflect the cataclysmic pain of a break up. I think yall are getting way too personally invested and forgetting were talking about a film and not a real couples relationship.
I actually loved the ending of Hereditary. I also loved the ending of the Witch- but I’m a huge fan of horror folkelore. I loved the ode to Rosemary’s Baby at the end.
I love the ending of The Witch, too.❤
Same here I think Hereditary, the Witch and the new Suspiria were really similar as in: they start as just depressing Drama with some supernatural elements and then at the end it’s does a whole 180 and goes super supernatural in a way that doesn’t really fit into the movie and I think a lot of people get upset over it but I just really love the endings of all those three movies
Also if you are into folk-horror then watch the original The Wicker Man. It’s pretty different and not sure if you will like it but I loved it (it’s not really disturbing but more of a weird exploration of a tradition)
So here's the thing about Dani in Midsommar. We can infer from the conversation with her sister in the opening that Dani grew up being her sister's keeper- loving her sister deeply, expending so much effort to protect and be there for her, and learning how to live with the chaos of her sister's mental illness only for her sister to take everything from Dani, including herself. The fact that Dani's only close relationship seems to be Christian - her bf really suggests that she finds it difficult to relate and feel close with other people, this often happens when people grow up enmeshed in family dysfunction, their family is their whole world and the trauma they've experienced alienates them from others. THIS is why Dani is holding onto Christian so tightly- not because he's so wonderful, but because for whatever reason he is all she has, he is her only real human connection left. And deep down she MUST know this, but instead she looks past his clear uncomfortability in being there to appreciate and cling desperately to the fact that he is there at all. And as for Christian, I think one could say, while I certainly agree with you he's an asshole, that he was very much out of his depth when it came to helping Dani with her grief. Not every relationship works out, he was ready to leave but frightened to- he mentions it early on, what if leaving is the wrong choice? This is a man who isn't really sure what love is, but who knows he DOESN'T want to be an asshole and so he stays with a grieving partner, but can't escape being an asshole, because he isn't in love with her, and he's not very good at faking it. He's damned if he goes and damned if he stays and he's just kind of trapped in this moral conundrum with (apparently) noone around him of any real moral insight to help him figure out what to do. I actually find these characters very believable. We are never meant to root for them to stay together. We are actually meant to root for them to find a way to recognize it isn't working and to find the strength and emotional clarity to break up, so that they can find what they need where it actually exists instead of clinging to each other out of fear. That is the dramatic momentum of the film and that's why when Dani chooses to burn Christian, it feels like a triumph of sorts. Perhaps we learn so little about their relationship because both of them are bad at inhabiting their authentic selves with certainty and communicating from that place. They are co-dependent AF.
@Iris I'm not a psychologist but I do have family who are mentally ill and I've had significant elements of trauma in my own life because of those situations. So I do have personal experience I suppose you could say. But because of what my family has gone through I've done a lot of reading over the years about the psychology of development, trauma, attachment, motivation etc. I've seen Midsommar at least three times, and watched a number of commentary pieces on it because I found it to be such a compelling film and I'm always interested to hear other people's perspectives and engage in this kind of dialogue.
@@thinkfirst1989 this was like reading my own comment thank you! i feel exactly the same. i have similar insight as i have mentally ill family members as well as a disabled older brother. lots of love
I love this comment. I do have one thing to add Danny does talk to a friend over the phone (and I think she has other friends besides her too) and she does say.. that maybe she's too clingy.. she says she's always roping him into her family crap and her friend says that's what he's there for. that's not what he's there for dude... nobody signs up for family baggage when they go into a relationship, and when this baggage turns out to be huge you can't be blamed it it kills the romance in you. Everyone has their own limit, and some are shorter than others... Danny knows what she weighs on him... and that he's prolly tired of it all. Chris's passion has slowly died because he's burning out trying to be better than he actually is but at least he's trying. Maybe if he went on a vacation alone, and had some time to miss Danny or not miss Danny, he could have at least had some time to recharge and do the most healthy thing for them both...
Yes, I agree with everything you said! To extend your point, both Dani and Christian are very believable, and that is in part why I have sympathy for them both--because they're both trapped in the relationship, Dani out of grief and a desire to not bear it alone, and Christian out of a desire to avoid making her pain worse (even though he fails to do to that out of a lack of genuine love for her). Both of them have plausible reasons for staying in the relationship, and what makes the horror of the movie so good is that the end of the relationship culminates in their mutual destruction, one of the mind and one of the body. It's a great horror movie because the ending reflected the pain the relationship brought them both the entire time; the relationship inevitably destroys them because they could not bring themselves to destroy it. The cult exploits this and reduces Dani to a mantle for their worship and Christian to a sacrificial animal; making them both victims of the cult as well as each other and their own desires.
I think the missing layer is Dani’s lack of agency
Agency is a big deal here
I think there could be more nuance or a deleted scene where we really see how her sister was a vacuum
If we see this scene then we comprehend some strange sense of why she would stay with Christian. I’m not sure how we can add nuance to Christian. To what extent does life in the West celebrate a toxic guy like him? The secret asshole friend isn’t really an asshole. He has empathy. He also has collective agency. Dani doesn’t have that. She might not even have individualized agency.
Perhaps the missing chance was the suicide scene. The way Christian reacts seemed naturalistic, but doesn’t necessarily showcase a sense of how any rational person would not have just left right then. But that’s a horror film for you. No one needs to stay at the camp. No one needs to sleep over at the cobweb filled mansion.
I think the reason Dani was clinging onto Christian so tightly despite him being mid was because she needed him while she's grieving. Even though he doesn't actually support her other than like sometimes hugging her or letting her lean against him, she's just so broken by her loss that it would be devastating to lose him too. (maybe before her family died, she was just afraid to be alone because she had no other close friends or something) - to me that actually makes it even more devastating, Dani is out here saying "I know that you don't do anything for me, I know you are completely incapable of helping me through this, but I'm so completely and utterly alone that I still need you."
the loss of a child, especially a daughter, that hereditary deals with is something that hits way to close to home for me. I've been told by so many people to watch it and from the bits I've seen, it looks brilliant but watching another mother mourn the loss of her daughter is something that I can't do.
My own mother doesn't give a shit about movies, let alone horror films. She thinks they're funny at best and childish at worst. Then my brother and I watched hereditary in the living room while she was sitting on the couch browsing on her laptop. She wasn't even paying attention or anything, had no idea what it was about, but the scene where Toni Collette is on the floor grieving her child literally made her stood up and walk away, she actually said "yeah, I'm leaving , and if anything happened to you guys that'd be me, so I can't listen to this". That movie floored me like no other
that's very understandable
nah i wouldn’t recommend watching this then. its too close to home and even for someone with no kids or even the fact i have never lost anyone yet that scene rips me apart from my inside the shit is powerful
do not watch hereditary lol. its not the movie for you if its that personal.
@checkouijuliet man really, her cry while the son was in bed wide eyed and she discovered what happened was super depressing that shit was insane you could really hear the pain in her that was great acting for sure
The Paimon part/ending was actually my favorite portion of it. That statue at the end made me more uncomfortable than I've felt in a LONG time watching a movie.
I literally felt nauseous the whole night after seeing it.
@@alinapolat7336 I got nightmares. I never get nightmares.
@@alliemandleni5846 i feel you lol, I laid awake the whole night and couldn’t close my eyes without seeing that fuckinf scene at the end
No literally the ending was so gruseome and just uncomfortable...thats what really made it work imo
@@littleblueby7748 100% agree. The ending was the best part.
I don't mind that the characters in Midsommar feel one dimensional. With the emotional turmoil that Dani is going through between her family dying and her bad relationship, EVERYTHING feels one dimension. When you're going through that much crap, life is hollow and lost. It seems fitting that, at least the characters, seems empty and one note in that movie.
Maybe I'm giving too much credit, but I thought it was great that it all felt weird and out of place, because that's what life feels like in those situations.
The end of this movie almost felt like "this is what SHOULD happen" and it feels like you have no choice but to go with it, almost helplessly, but that's what life feels like when you're that emotionally tapped out.
You're totally right, and no, I don't think you are giving it too much credit
Besides Dani literally had no option to do anything about it cuz if she did she was going to be killed lol. I will add that in her position of literal helplessness and putting it in the context she is in, feeling ''relieved'' is totally understandable
I haven't seen hereditary, but I did want to share my thoughts of Midsommer.
I never thought we were supposed to care about Dani and Christians relationship. Her fate was sealed in the first 15 minutes, and we are just watching it play out. Yes, the film is in Danis perspective, but we are seeing her the way the cult does, and also wants Dani to see herself... a blank, hurting, misunderstood woman in need of connection.
The tragedy and emotional crux for me was never Danis romantic life, it was her familial one. She brutally looses her family, all she has left of that is a man she KNOWS doesn't care about her anymore. She doesn't care about that right now, she needs and wants connection. The cult signifies that deep heartfelt connection, even in a ritual suicide, It MEANS something there. All it meant back home was that she was going to be alone.
Dani choosing to kill Christian is signifying her detachment from her old life, and the willingness to have family agian that she also KNOWS are unhinged, but are there for her. It makes the deaths of her own family look like they mean more then tragedy.
We don't see much of Danis relationship with her own family, other then she may have been very protective of her sister, being her rock, and possibly having well meaning but emotionally absent parents.... which sounds like Christian. That is what Dani thinks love is, well meaning, but emotionally absent she knows this isnt the same. But she clings to it as its all she has now. Her other kind of love is being an emotional rock for others, this is what she was trying to get Christian to be, which he tried a little, but in the end neither got what they needed.
The cult did provide however. In a sick and twisted way, they became her rock, they gave her families deaths meaning, they lifted and celebrated her when the world burned down around her, literally and figuratively.
Danis fate was always sealed. Never because of romance, but becuase of family. We are watching her slip down a steep slope of grief and hoping she can catch herself before she falls and let's it take over. Then, instead of slowing down, she dives into it.
Each step we can see certain cult members acting like sisters, brothers, mothers would to her. Reminding her boyfriend of her birthday, in thier room and breaking down without having to say a word, encouraging her to let loose and party a little. All the while we are seeing Danis hallucinations of her family play in the backgrounds, hidden from us, but are apparent in her psyche.
Christian was a jerkish character, yes, but also very realistic. He doesn't want this relationship, but he also doesn't want to hurt Dani more then she has, even if it would make him look bad. He's just a guy, with jerky friends, stuck in that cycle many young men get in. He's a normal stereotype of men women deal with constantly in the dating scene. Not ready or willing to grow.
The tragedy of Dani is her choosing more and more toxic relationships searching for connection rather then working on herself. The cult takes full advantage of that.
I get what the film is trying to tell, but even with this explanation, it doesn’t make the film any less boring and pretentious for me. There are so many movies that deal with break up better than this one and this one just to me feels like it was just trying to shock me and nothing more.
@captainmarvelwilson508 I don't know if you actually read my comment. But I literally explained how it wasn't about her and Christians relationship. It's not about a breakup.
It's about her family.
She gets a replacement family, not a replacement boyfriend.
@@rosechapman2734 Yeah. Okay. But regardless, I still can’t stand this movie because of the reasons I just mentioned. It was the most boring and pretentious movie I saw that year and was only made to make me feel uncomfortable. I just don’t see the point of making a 2.5 hours long movie about the dangers of joining a cult and watching her jerky friends just dismiss everything.
@captainmarvelwilson508 Your allowed to have your opinion, man. I wasn't trying to convince anyone to like the movie, I was explaining my pov on it.
It's fine you don't like them, don't know why you wanted to comment on my post specifically?
Genuinely love to see your take but I do think the fact that Ari Aster explicitly states the point of the movie is Dani and Christian's relationship kinda proves that at any rate he failed in that department. It's awesome you were able to find so much meaning in the family part but it does show that the movies intended message was lost lmao
Lots of comments are making great points. I'd like to add that Dani and Christian were a relationship that began in college. For imperfect people to find each other and date all through college even though their relationship isn't all that meaningful is totally realistic. And Dani's imperfection is not her trauma, it's how she channels her trauma: by ignoring problems. She's all alone, with her only way of ignoring that being someone who doesn't care about her, but they stay together because they are so attached. This is entirely believable to me. I've been through and witnessed relationships that are built on attachment, not love. For me, I don't need to believe that characters love each other for good and honest reasons to understand their attachment, especially characters who started dating when they were teenagers. I think the analysis in this video misses out on how common this type of codependency is.
The ending of Midsommar was interesting to me because it felt like we were manipulated into smiling with Dani at watching her boyfriend burn. It's like we were drawn into the cult and indoctrinated right alongside Dani. Something that should have been horrifying to both Dani and us as the audience, leaves us feeling satisfied and relieved. For me, it was deeply unsettling to realise I felt the exact way that the cult would have wanted...I had been manipulated into wanting this.
Nevermind the fact that she was so traumatized by the
Attestupa scene just a few days prior. Now fully (for the time being at least) in control of everyone's fate
I may be wrong, but my hot take on both movies was that we are seeing the events of the two films from the point of view of the main leads. This is why we get highly opinionated depictions of people because the protagonist sees them as such; if the main character hates someone, then we only see the bad and NONE of the good in that person. On top of that, neither believes they’re in the wrong…so we never see them in that light, even when pieces of the darker parts of their personalities manage to seep through. Again, this is just my interpretation however.
I watched Hereditary in theatres. At that car scene I remember hearing others gasp (including me) then complete SILENCE. You could have heard an ant's heartbeat. The theatre wasn't even loud before that scene or anything but it was like everyone just froze, and started holding their breath. Ive never experienced that in a movie theatre before. Was pretty cool
I completely agree with you about Midsommar, but less so about Hereditary. I liked the ending of the latter, which was so bizarre to me that it was legitimately terrifying. Not so much a fear of "the devil," but with cults that have members completely convinced that horrific acts are justified, even joyous.
My take away from the movie is that you can have a grief so haunting that it can make you an emotional vampire, kill your ex, and gladly be the head priestess of a cult. LOL relatable
So I have a problem with this review of hereditary. I don't see why Paimon being present is an issue. I'm not sure what it could possibly be instead that would make this work. No matter how it ends, there's still an occult ritual involving the devil, and that's literally the part that makes it a horror movie, and the result of all of their trauma.
Same here. I just recently revisited Hereditary and after rewatching it with a clear head after 2 years, and knowing so much about it, I really enjoyed that it also works as a straight-up horror film with the demon being real and present in its universe. I've had it with artsy symbolic horror. The "monster created by trauma" element has become a trope. And A24 is guilty of it too. Let's not even start talking about ... Men.
@@magnuskallas Men is such a stupid movie. The movie could have worked so well as commentary on what it's like to live under sexism if it just acknowledged the men. Like, one TH-camr said that she thought it would be about the paranoia of "have I met this guy before? Am I being stalked by this man?" and that was why they all looked the same. But nope, literally no reason for it.
Yeah idk what he expects to be the cause of it other than something supernatural
When me and my dad watched Hereditary for the first time, before the paimon stuff was revealed he thought that the movie was about annie. That she actually did kill peter and charlie ( and herself) with the paint thinner and that the she was in hell. I love this concept so much and feel like it could have been a better twist
it would have been so boring
I agree, the supernatural stuff should've been ambigious as to whether or not it was actually there.
First two minutes in, and i get so many conflicted messages...
-I love and respect director!
-This movies frustrated me!
-You know, sometimes you watching bad movies, and deep inside there is a good movie?
-This movies are not bad! They good, but they have potential to be great!
-Now lets start and i will tell you why they focking terrible!
Dude! WTF?! :D
Meep you missed one thing, Dani lost her entire family so she only had christian left THAT and her yearning for what once was is the only reason she wants him still but she slowly develops a new family at midsommar and slowly moves on that is why she sacrifices him evem though she actually does not want to.
The problem I had with Hereditary was that we never see the family as a family (if they ever were). They start the film eaten up with guilt and distant from each other, so I never connect with anyone. And the ending is a jumbled mess with shots from other horror films, so I loved so much of it...but it's not up with The Exorcist or The Shining.
I never saw Midsommar, but I've watched the Critical Drinker's take on it several times, which is very entertaining (and a lot less long). It looked like a drawn-out pretentious take on The Wicker Man, and I get the feeling I would connect with these characters about as well as I did in the trailer (which I didn't).
But I agree with everything you say! You are NOT wrong.
I slightly disagree with your stance on Hereditary. The family may start off slightly dysfunctional, but we're starting the film off in a place of emotional potency for these characters (the death of a family member). The seeds of guilt are planted, but they're manifested in much less pronounced ways. The interactions between Peter and Annie are very typical of a teenage son and a mother, Annie and her husband seem much more affectionate even when Annie is faintly starting to retrude from him a bit, Annie clearly loves Charlie and is trying to connect with her in this time of grief. I definitely see them as a family at the beginning of the film. Not a perfect family by any means, but what family is? If anything I find the portrayal of their family as more honest and therefore easier to connect to, personally.
I also think it's worth noting that you bring up The Shining as an example of a better horror film, but ultimately that film also uses the same narrative structure and family dynamic as Hereditary. I won't get too much into it because I'd like to talk about it in a future video, but the Torrance family is plagued by trauma and abuse right from the beginning. Jack Torrance was a small step away from falling into madness, Danny was already somewhat distant from Jack as a result of the incident that preceded their trip to the Overlook, Wendy already seems overrun by anxiety, etc. The horrific events of the Overlook simply tip the scales further and you watch the characters descend, the exact same way you do in Hereditary. But The Shining is much more ambiguous and up for interpretation, which I find vastly more interesting than it being spelled out for you like Hereditary.
As far as Midsommar goes, it is definitely a drawn out Wicker Man homage but I don't think I'd call anything about either of Aster's films pretentious. Especially seeing interviews with him, it's clear the guy just loves horror films and loves using that medium to tell stories that connect with him. He revels in the conventions of horror and wants the audience to have as much fun with it as he does, while still attempting to bring through deeper themes. This both works to his advantage and disadvantage at times, but I don't think he's ever taking himself or what the movie has to say with too much self-seriousness.
That being said, I obviously did find the characters in Midsommar hard to relate to on anything other than the surface level because of the lack of nuance. As I said in the video, I'd still recommend you experience the film for yourself but given what you've said here I doubt it'd do much for you emotionally.
Thanks for watching and for the comment, I appreciate your input!
@@meeptop why do you think directors taking their stories in a quite self serious manner , is a bad thing ?
@@dylana.9057 I don't think directors taking their work seriously is a bad thing and I never once said that. All I said was I don't think Ari Aster in particular takes that approach, therefore calling his films pretentious doesn't feel like a fair criticism.
Theirs over 30 minutes of deleted hereditary scenes that show them as a actual family and theirs so many emotional scenes that have made me cry! Ari said he removed most because he purposely wanted the family to feel estranged and broken. He wasn't trying to make the type of film you wanted. I hope we get a version with the deleted scenes added back into the film even if it changes the films entire being
Pretty they've always been like this and that was the point.
as someone w c-ptsd midsommar felt so true to the experience of trauma and i felt so deeply for dani's character
Well, I don't know if I agree with you. I LIKED that the movie picked up at the end of their relationship. They are at a point where, yes, I'm sure they were in love with each other, but NOW... they're beyond that. There is no spark left. There is really no hint of why you fell in love to begin with left. They can't even realistically fake it at this point, let alone drudge up enough genuine feeling for each other. I've BEEN in a relationship like that. Where you Know there is no future together, you don't even Want a future together, but you are just too comfortable (or lazy, however you want to look at it) to want to go through any big life changes. It's just easier to try not to upset the apple cart. I thought it was smart, and Much more realistic to show their relationship where they are now, as opposed to stuffing in a bunch of hammy scenes of their past love. I certainly wouldn't have wanted flashbacks, for God's sake. Anyway, that's just what I took from the movie.
I see your points but Hereditary is a dark and hopeless film. Our characters are brought down so low and kicked while they are down. They are literally brought down to the depths of hell. Which physically happens in the film to all of them. We are slowly watching the family go to hell together. There are many themes of course you can take out of that however The point is that we are seeing a family be brought down to the lowest possible.
I was listening to this without the visuals and I realized your voice sounds almost identical to Ari Aster's ?? Maybe I'm crazy lol but I couldn't tell it was a different person speaking when you switched over to his interviews
I think the ending of Hereditary shouldn't be viewed so literally. I've heard a take about it, from Nyx Fears, where she says that usually the first scene of a movie shows you how to watch the movie. And Hereditary starts with a zoom in inside the mother's dollhouse, where we are transported to the actual house. That can be interpreted as this being the mother's interpretation of events, not what actually happened. Meaning that from there on out, you can interpret each scene from a metaphorical point of view. It's like "Wouldn't it be better if my family is plagued by a demon, instead of horrible trauma and my own neglect for my child?". Also, there are pretty clear trans themes in the story, where the little girl was supposed to be born a boy, but then had to undergo death and be reborn as another person - a boy.
And I think Midsommar being too forward and simplistic isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it's designed to look more like a fable, at least that's the feeling I got. From the traditional clothing and landscapes, it felt like they were in a folk tale. And sometimes, it really is as simple as a couple not ever communicating and being just an asshole and an altruist. It's very common for two people to be together out of guilt or convenience, or emotional dependency, but really have no actual love in their relationship.
That's just my analysis at least.
You take film advice from a female? Lol! Grow up and discover Redlettermedia.
I got the same reading from hereditary. We see events from the bio families perspective, through the lense of their shared psychosis.
@@HeyItsMad Exactly! I think it's pretty apparent that the events of the film are meant to be taken metaphorically, as opposed to literally.
Really great video! I somewhat disagree with your analysis, especially in regards to the father in Hereditary. I think that he's definitely out of focus compared to the other characters, but he serves as a necessary neutral voice of reason, with little moments (going on medication due to the stress, his small, quiet breakdown while picking up his son) bringing a great deal of pathos to an otherwise utilitarian role. But even then, great work! Keep it going.
I'll admit, "the dad is just kinda there" was just a bit of a tongue in cheek, throw away line. Like you said, his character is the perfect neutral in the story and really works to keep the film grounded. You can really empathize with the guy, even for how minor his role feels. I think that really speaks to how wonderful and nuanced the character writing is in Hereditary.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I appreciate you!
Lol my bad taking a throwaway joke seriously. But good stuff! Will keep watching.
@@okawesome2746 Don't sweat it, your comment actually made me think more about how much I appreciate his character!
The reason these films deserve to be so celebrated is because they elevate the metaphorical to the mythical and speak to the human experience in a way that rises above the narrative.
This is what has been inherent in the great works of Cinema.
The “one dimensional” characters are archetypes typically representative of different parts of a somewhat universal psyche.
King Paimon is representative of the selfish power dynamic that perpetuates generational trauma.
It’s there to be taken literally if you want, but that’s not the only way to take it.
The metaphor of the supernatural elements in hereditary didn’t jump the shark, for me, with the ecstatic and fantastical ending, which can still be read literally without disrupting the horror of the family’s experience of grief. I even would say that the ending has a catharsis that the psychological journey requires. It does cross a line, but it feels like the line being crossed is the one between the kind of grief that contains hope and the kind from which there’s no return, and insanity rises to the level where hellish truth obscures any potential for redemption. For me, that’s a valid and powerfully moving cinematic story to tell. Without that kind of tipping out of the mundane, the story’s arc would seem much less complete to me.
No, it wasn't "and then Satan." All of the grief was real, every reaction was human by the family. The plot catalyst was Paimon. It doesn't negate any part of the exploration of grief even remotely. In fact, it's essentially an allegory for familial grief-- what you may do can haunt your family forever. It also was not the same ending as Rosemary's Baby. In hereditary, the end was the culmination of everything we saw before-- the grief won, like it so often does. Absolutely no part of the weight of Hereditary is undercut by the supernatural elements, they are all placed as symbols for the pain that can occur due to family trauma and mental illness. The story needed to be horrific (i.e., horror) to get how horrific the reality is, it's literally *why* it is so impactful. You can't really view the horror and the story separately if you are to understand the interplay of the emotional (i.e., the fear) and the mental (i.e., the drama) aspects of trauma.
yeah! the inevitability of the satanic plot mirrors the destruction that grief and trauma can cause when there is no, to put it the best way i can, help available. not saying that healing from trauma and grief is impossible, but that getting out of situations that cause trauma and finding community to support one through those things is nigh impossible, so for a lot of people the ending has already been written. even when you're going through something traumatic or are grieving it can feel like there's no escape, and the machinations of the ritual reflect that quite well imo. even in rosemary's baby, the satanic cult conspiring against her, lying to her and gaslighting her is only an extreme version of a lot of people's realities, especially of how abuse is not believed or at the very least belittled, not to mention how the christian aspect ties into it as well.
I think the idea with both movies is they're twists. You're supposed to be able to think maybe in Hereditary it's all mental illness, not actually a demon summoning ritual. In Midsommer the twist is you think eventually Christian is going to break up with her, but she ends up being the only one out of her friend group to get out of the situation alive in the end, ultimately kinda breaking up with him in a way by choosing him for the ritual.
Fucking insane that you are under 100 subs. You're gonna blow up soon, and I can't wait to watch it happen. These are well made and very entertaining videos under your belt. Keep it up!
I'm really stoked you're enjoying what I'm making and I immensely appreciate the kind words. I don't know if I'll ever really "blow up," but I'm more than happy with the way things are growing. I'll keep it up and hopefully you keep enjoying the videos!
Nice points, but I think you miss out on something that will make you look at Midsommar's ending completely differently. For me, the reason why Dani struggles so hard at the end to choose between two people to die is never because she cares for Christian. No, she absolutely has no will to save Christian by the end of it and just wants to flee the cult with or without him. So why does she struggle? Like I said, she wants to flee the cult! At that point, to her, there's still a teeny weeny bit of chance to escape, by geting Christian back! Unsound plan? Of course! Dani realizes that too. At the end, it is more than obvious to her that the cult wants her to choose Christian (to save their own blood) and wants her to join the "family" (to bring in new blood). They even explain the whole thing in English for Dani to understand and even say that they will "wait patiently for the fair queen". They planned her struggle too! So at that point she has two options, first, save Christian and gain a slightly more chance on escaping through the number and get a massive chance of getting both killed instantly by the cult. Second, join the cult. Which one sounds more plausible? This also explains her smile at the end. At first she's grieving at the inevitable, i.e. joining a f**king cult! But later she finds the only way to cope with things now is to accept. This is an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome where the captor is a cult and where the captive doesn't have any choice at all!
I definitely appreciate this insight and point of view! I just feel like the ending's impact, and the resonance of the story in general, entirely depends on how you interpret the central idea of the film. If you feel the film is supposed to portray how emotionally vulnerable people can be enticed and ultimately consumed by cults, then the ending is largely impactful. But to me personally, and supposedly according to Ari Aster from the interviews I've watched, the theme of the film is central to Dani and Christian's relationship. On that level, the ending still doesn't impact me regardless of what Dani or the cult's ultimate intentions were because I do not have any emotional investment in that relationship. But, as always, all art including films are up to interpretation. There's no one right way to view a film, even if the filmmaker explicitly tells you what they were trying to achieve. At the end of the day, I think your interpretation lends itself to feel more emotional than mine does!
I never thought of it in that way at all... now the smile at the end makes a little more logical and practical sense
I agree with you. I don't think the central these is "let go of toxic relationships" it's that life circumstances or dispositions can leave us vulnerable to toxic relationships. She traded one form of emotional abuse for an extreme other form. Every single thing the Harga do is to further facilitate their estrangement the same way granny does in hereditary. Does Christian suck? Yes. He also was drugged and raped and they set it up so that it looked like cheating to her. If he were more sympathetic we would see the Harga for who they are and so would Danny. There'd by no conflict in the viewer everyone would agree "choose the harga guy".
I think she's fully "in" with them once she sees Christian with a child. There's no more thoughts of escape after that moment. It was set up that way by the cult on purpose, there's no forgiveness after that. She smiles because she thinks she's free but in reality she exchanged one toxic relationship for another
P.S. everyone forgets she's a child for some reason? the movies goes out of its way to tell you her age. then everyone defends christian by saying he was drugged, but he literally says "I don't want to have a bad trip" when he's handed the drink, then he looks over at the girl (CHILD) that he KNOWS is set to have sex with him, then decides to get high...in the HOPES of hooking up because he knows the drug is supposed to "lower his inhibitions". I don't know WHY this gets glossed over. he was still taken advantage of by the cult while intoxicated and that's never ok, but his intentions leading up were unforgiveable
Honestly I feel bad for Christian even though that may be the unpopular answer. I’ve dated someone like Dani minus the family suicide lol. While he is made to be the bad guy, I get how draining dating someone like her is even if it isn’t her fault. I was at the point where I just held things in and didn’t share because everything was a problem and the clinging just pushes you away. While he wasn’t a great a guy persay I hate how he is made to be the toxic bf character.
if you watch the midsommar deleted scenes you'll realize that christian is more of a dick than an emotionally drained boyfriend (he picked a fight with her because she brought him flowers and he felt he was being a bad boyfriend)
@@dora8930deleted though so it’s not actually his character
The thing is, the theatrical release doesn't show the cut scene where Christian is gaslighting her. So, I don't feel bad for him. At all.
The fact that y’all are defending Christian to this day means the movie worked in convincing you.
8:44 I have to say I appreciate your choice of music from The Sims 1. 💚
Love the video but bro the sims 1 music in the back ground braught back memories i didnt know i had
This dude is saying Dani’s and Christian’s emotional arc doesn’t make sense because he and many of the people who watched the movie don’t understand codependent relationships. He is right
I will never forget the scene where Ani is floating on the ceiling watching Peter and everything that follows. This is legitimately the only horror movie that made me anxious and fearful other than lazy jumpscares
You missed the point. He hit it on the head. Sometimes when your in a relationship you know it’s not going to work and still stay. Sooo… You saying that the audience knows it’s not goin to work from the beginning… kind of the point.
Thank you SO much for this video because I've had a "problem" with Midsommar ever since I first watched it and I finally realized what that "problem" is. I absolutely love this film for many reasons, however I also felt that something was off with the writing and I never really understood what, but watching your video it made me realize something about Midsommar (and Hereditary too). The endings of these films feel like fairytales or storybook endings, the results of a domino effect that started at the beginning of the movie (Grandma's death/Dani's family death), a result etched in stone, unavoidable. They feel like they're teaching some kind of morals but for adults, like "don't sacrifice the happiness and well-being off your descendants or others for your own gains" and "let people help you when you're stuck in a hurtful mental situation", but they're done in the most brutal, violent and hyperbolic ways possible. When Dani must learn to put her own need before others, the movie literally kills her toxic partner. When the Graham family must pay the debt of their elder, it's to a demonic god who will possess the mother, choose one kid as an avatar and kill the other and also kill the father because he's useless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The problem is that the presentation is very "realistic" and doesn't really "rhyme" or "vibe" with the hyperbolic fate of the characters. It's especially jarring because of the actors' raw performances. The emotional rawness, clashes with what I can only describe as a new modern horror campiness, that either ;
- wants a dissonance between what it tells and how it tells it,
- or is too afraid to embrace the ridiculous and absurdity of fantastic horror, like "my family owes a soul to Satan :)"
I remember Collette's and Pugh's gut wrenching performances, the emotional agony of their characters, portrayed with painful accuracy and when their movies ended I was like "Oh... it's... over...?", there was no climax (not a bad thing) and I felt a bit empty afterwards, even Dani's final smile made me go "Good for her !", then "Good for her ?", and finally "Oh fuck, she's damaged beyond repair", next time I watch the movie I'll probably say to myself something like "Is this what transcendence looks like ?". Dani's ending is initially climactic but when I watched it again, or thought about it, I only had questions concerning the nature of that smile (not a bad thing either but it's debatable if it was intended as questionable).
Like for the Graham's, Dani's story arc is out of her hands. The grandmother kinda bequeathed Paymon to her descendants, so Annie, Peter and Charlie were all essentially f*cked ever since birth, and Dani was locked in a undesirable situation by her own neurosis, trauma, emotional turmoil and toxic/uncaring close circle. On paper, the starting point is a perfect recipe for a arduous series of interpersonal back-and-forth and powerful dynamic with a dash of supernatural dangers to spice it all up and to force confrontations (and Hereditary give breadcrumbs of this) but overall story is deadly focused taking these characters' agency away and beating the shit out them, that's frustrating and the worst part is I feel like I can't even criticize the movie for it because \That's the joke/
This tonal dissonance reminds me of probably one of my favorite horror movie The Babadook, where the conflict is started by a literal storybook and the antagonistic force is the character of that storybook. The movie feels itself like a storybook but even though the presentation is serious, realistic and somber, I feel like The Babadook succeeds in navigating the gap between the absurdity of the horrific events and the family drama, making it a fairytale for adults. I think it's thanks to it's cinematography, hopeful ending, the agency of the characters, and the fact that it's aware of its own absurdity (case and point the title of the movie itself). Absurdity is good, it's all around us, and the most impactful pieces of media (for me) are the ones that embrace their own absurdity (prime example being Everything Everywhere All At Once), absurdity as a style has a lot of potential and I'd love to see more creators explore it, especially in horror.
I think what I really take out of this video is ;
- is having "flat" characters essentially bad ? ;
- how can you navigate a tonal dissonance ? ;
- how to use absurd events or entities inherent in supernatural horror ? ;
- and more importantly, what the f*ck do I emotionally do with Dani's final smile ?
Sorry for the tangents and disconnected points, I think that's something I will explore on my own and my brain still hasn't fully process this new perspective but I felt the need to share this because this video opened a door in my brain to a lot of things haha.
PS : Christian IS hot and I won't let anyone say otherwise. He is trash, like proper trash, spineless, dickish, abusive on a frustrating and heartbreaking banal way... but he is also hot...........ᶦ'ᵐ ᵈᵃᵐᵃᵍᵉᵈ
Outstanding analysis. Very well articulated. I feel the same way with regard to the power in the performances and the merits of both films but overall just, come on, Ari. Write something that I can give a shit about. Part of me feels like critics/the majority of film nerds such as ourselves piss blind admiration for these films due to the "you just didn't get it" trope/want to feel like they belong to something/pure pretentiousness. I'm articulating myself poorly but yeah, well executed on your behalf. Keep up the good work.
It's true. People don't actually have different tastes than you; they just pretend to in order to seem "cool." The world truly revolves around what you think after all. Bravo for being able to say it publicly.
I totally understand your point of view on Hereditary and honestly I really appreciate it, but I fundamentally disagree with it. I did not for one second think the supernatural elements contributed to the film's detriment, much the contrary.
The concept of a supernatural higher force predicting and justifying heredity, personality, mental illness, broken relationships and a chain of events that seem nothing but unfortunately accidental but natural to us - and the devastating reactions that imminently follow through - is what, to me, truly makes Hereditary terrifying and genius. It's a higher force that is (and as you agree) very subtly but well established, and leaves this sense of wonder and menace that few other films that I've seen successfully accomplish. An old and simple concept executed expertly.
Everything was inevitable, but more importantly, it was justified. And that's where I think the genius of the film lies.
At the end of the day, I believe we both might've come across the same observations, but ultimately have a different stances on the film. Essentially, what you hate about Hereditary is what I love about it, and that's why I appreciate this video. You've helped me consolidate my opinion and presented the opposite one.
I really appreciate this well articulated counterpoint. I definitely agree that the inevitability and justification of the suffering of these characters does have its own sense of ominous tragedy. I think my complaint is more to do with the fact that the supernatural force itself (Paimon) and its cult of followers feels trite. Again, as you mentioned, it's an old concept executed expertly.
Perhaps it really is just a matter of our differing preferences when it comes to horror storytelling, and that's perfectly okay. I'm glad this video was able to help validate your feelings on the film and promote conversation, as opposed to it feeling combative or contrarian. I still think Hereditary is brilliant overall and I'm just glad we're still here talking about it almost 3 years later!
Seriously though, thanks so much for your input. It's comments like these that make me love creating TH-cam videos!
@@meeptop I totally understand where you’re coming from when considering the supernatural force and the cult “trite” and do honestly agree with it (although, then again, it doesn’t feel as negative of a point as it might should). It is kind of the same old demonization (pun not intended) of satanism and occultism, just done expertly.
The average watcher is usually not very knowledgeable or too well-versed on the occult arts, so the villainous portrayal of said communities usually gives a sense of mystique and mesmerization (while it might come of as a bit shallow and “trite” on a closer inspection).
I myself, as a viewer, delightfully fell into this trap when watching the film!
As a side note, not only that, but I, being myself a “self proclaimed writer” (and please do not this pretentiously), was almost doing a similar thing when writing one of my stories (about a girl whose pagan blood turns against herself, abandoning her body and threatening to dominate her home city).
Anyways, thank you so much for the additional input. I’d honestly have loved if you had went more into this in the video (although I still loved it, as I said) !
@@20000dino No problem! The video was already 22 minutes long and I try to keep my points as concise as possible. Plus, anything I leave out gives me more to talk about in the comments haha. Thanks though, hopefully future videos will give us more to discuss!
@@meeptop yeah, I understand ! It is indeed a good way to open discussion. Will hopefully discuss some more with you in the future, then ^^
Nah, bro. You're missing the point of the ending of Hereditary. It doesn't undercut the events of the film, it reveals what was really underlying the whole time that you couldn't quite put your finger on. It's a magic trick. You saw the signs the whole time, but you didn't really know you saw it. It should become more impressive with every watch. If it gets worse, then you do not adore the movie. You actually didn't get it at all.
14:29 the lady in white is CLEARLY more interested in whats on her phone then anything coming out of Ari Aster's mouth 🤦🏾♀️
I agree. I hate how plastic the characters of midsomar feel. And plastic is the true description.
What is it with people saying stuff as a criticism and it's like a major point to the film's themes, like yeah, the relationship was toxic, no person would stay in that EXCEPT for people who are traumatized, so it resonated with people like us who got stuck in those relationships with an abusive partner but feared losing the one person that maybe could love you at times.
still haven’t watched midsommar, but im glad “what?? it was just satan??” was not something only i felt about hereditary (a film i greatly loved)
it wasn’t satan though…
Awful take tbh. It’s less Satan and more of demonic being who’s been laying the foundation for this plan through a cult for decades. The family was falling apart because it was always going to. The characters fate had been sealed before their birth.
@@Weedmen337 so true!! tbh i think my statement was a bit hyperbolic, and i was focusing to much on the satanic (not just satan) element than the themes of hereditary traits/pre-destiny :)
@@jam541 ur right :) was being hyperbolic and forgot i was in a public comment section lol
I always saw Midsommar as a relationship that wasn't dying, but dead. The only thing that kept it together was the death of Dani's family. We are watching as an outside party, looking at a relationship that, from what we can see, needs to end, because its helping neither party. Thats why we feel relieved when she finally makes the decision to kill Christian herself. She found it in her to admit to herself it was dead long ago and doing her no good.
I think this video's analysis of Hereditary is fundamentally flawed, in that it takes the events of the ending at face value. Throughout Hereditary, the narrative element of the family's mental illness is breadcrumb-dropped multiple times. It's even in the name, Hereditary: you could argue the demon is being inherited, but that doesn't really make sense with the plot, as the grandmother was more grooming the grandchildren for possession. The title and the ending make much more sense if you see Hereditary as a story of undiagnosed generational mental illness. Toni Colette's character directly references her mother's schizophrenia, and throughout the movie begins to see things and fall into paranoia and delusion. The same can be said about her son. It is notable that the only character who is completely without paranormal encounter is the father, not a blood relative to the grandmother - apart from his fiery death, which the audience likely sees through Toni Colette's perspective and on rewatch has multiple suspicious elements surrounding it. Through the lens of mental illness, the ending becomes not a generic rehashing of Rosemary's Baby with the attribution of the film's events put onto an unseen external demon, but rather the succumbing of a family to their own delusions, the family having literally torn themselves apart.
You perfectly articulated my reaction to Hereditary. Perfectly terrifying, great themes and scenes articulating them (I love the scenes between the mother and son) but then that story disappears in favor of demons lol
Oh man, this is an L take. There's a great 4 hour long video on the lore of this movie. It's so much more than you're giving it credit 😅
3:18 Annie didn’t watch Charlie die. She found her headless body in the car the next day. Peter was the only one who witnessed Charlie’s death.
She's not perfect? I thought she was supposed to be a major downer loon at all times and the boyfriend is trying to figure out how to get the heck away from her when the tragedy happens and, actually not being a total dick, the guy realizes this is not a good time to break up.
This is the worst review I have ever watched
That ending in hereditary felt like a cop out honestly.
Bad relationship, and Christian's 2nd-biggest mistake is being too weak-willed to break up when he's clearly not committed. But his biggest mistake is letting Dani invite herself along on the trip. That gets him killed. I dunno, that
punishment seems disproportionate. Tedious movie with wildly gyrating moral compass, but at least Ari Aster got to work through his emotions in a purgative ceremony, similar to Burning Man origin story with even some of that same flaming pagan energy.
Ari Aster is solid gold.
Rewatching his movies does a disservice and makes you forget the amazing film.
That said, everytime you rewatch them you see something new, knowing the ending
And ari asters explanation of midsommer clipped here is right on
I feel like Dani isn't perfect like she is clearly co-dependant which puts strain on their relationship. But I also feel like they could have pushed that more. Like she could have been kind of annoying before her family death but make it worse once her family dies. Or they could have made her like in a parentified relationship with her boyfriend. Like if she was used to managing he siblings condition then she could have taken that attention and shifted it onto he boyfriend. And the focus could have been her trying to fix a relationship that you just have to walk away from. LIke she could be so focused on preserving this relationship as a form of retribution for her sisters death
The point was that Dani had just lost her whole family and was desperate for human connection. The cult took advantage of that. I don't get that why we need to see how they ended up together. That situation is that they shouldn't be together, she is understandably codependent and he doesn't know whether to leave the grieving woman, who needs support or make this already dead realitionship. That's already tough situation but he happens to be douche bag.
I think that there are a few things that I don't think anyone has been covering about Midsommar. Christian's character is indeed a a**hole. But as individuals watching the movie we can only see that from an outside perspective looking in. We're not seeing just how much he's stuck around and dealt with all of Dani's hardships. And how long it may have took for him to become desensitized and just completely burnt out from the relationship that can never seem to get good no matter what. None of these are Dani's fault of course, and that's why, even though he is so tired of being in the relationship, and just wishes it would go away, he stays because he doesn't want to feel guilty for leaving someone behind that's going through so much. If you ever really had to go through something like that before you could understand just how difficult that situation can be. It's not just so easy to just break up and leave in those circumstances. (Unless you are a cold-hearted bastard haha). We really feel for Dani and sympathize with her of course but maybe we also sympathise with her a little bit different than Christian can because well, we're not actually there dealing with it day-in and day-out for months and even years like Christian has. Her struggle is new to us. And though I don't condone him being so cold, we have no right judging him through a situation we are freshly walking into while he has been at her beck and call for so long. Dani even makes a point to mention that in the beginning of the film and that she was worried that Christian would finally get tired and leave. He never just man's up and leaves because he would feel too guilty to do so because of her situation. So instead he grows cold, to draw her away and maybe in the back of his mind hoping that she would just get upset, tired and begin to hate him and leave him instead. It's definitely a toxic relationship but in this situation, I'm sure many people would accidentally do many of the same actions. I just like everyone else who watches the film (at least I'm assuming) feels more on Dani side and is rooting for Dani throughout the film. But we are actually left with no choice being on the outside looking in. Their relationship and struggles are new to us just like the experience they have going to this odd strange swedish cult. It looks one way on the outside with unseen depths and hidden truths within. Shocking them with realization as they journey through.
I agree with everything you said, that's exactly how i saw it.
For me I thought the whole breakup theme was cannibalised by the dire straights of being amidst a cult that are literally killing people sacrificially. I can’t understand how a character would put more weight on a terrible partner than not knowing if you we’re going to be alive to see the sun go down.
@3:25 I don't see how the cause of the family's downfall being Satan undermines Hereditary. Props for using SIMS music though!
Last night I was sleeping on the couch while my wife was watching Hereditary. I didn't realize she was watching Hereditary until I woke up to Toni Collette's screams and the first thing I saw when I opened my eyes was the head in the road. That's not a way you want to wake up, trust me. It's a shame she wasn't nominated for an award for that performance.
I think something that's missed in the video is that Dani is a conflict averse personality type by virtue of the trauma she has faced. She is so fearful of being hurt again that she allows Christian to walk all over her because in exchange she receives some level of emotional protection. This is a common personality type in real life that's shown in people who experienced severe trauma. I think the ending is wonderful because she allows herself to inflict pain on the person that inflicted so much additional trauma to her that she starts to realise she is powerful again and can now move on with her life and shed the baggage of the past.
I love this video and agree with a lot of the sentiments! However, when I first saw the movie, I saw Christian and Dani staying in the relationship for the same reason: the tragic death of Dani's family. Aster shows us Christian's desire to end things right before the tragedy happens, so we feel the tension of him wanting to leave Dani but now being unable to since he doesn't want to seem like the asshole. Meanwhile, Dani doesn't want to let Christian leave the relationship no matter how shitty he is because it feels like it's all she has left. She needs some sense of normalcy after losing her family, so the last thing she wants to do is end up alone with no boyfriend after the loss, which is what spurs her to joining the trip and exchanging Christian to find "family" in the cult later on. I do think you were right in the fact that Aster provides little to nothing to make the audience want them to stay together, but I think it was for the primary purpose of showing what lengths a relationship can stretch to maintain the comfort of how it always has been despite nothing working. I guess I just found it odd that you hardly mentioned at all how much Dani's loss is what's keeping the couple together, both for alternative reasons.
I agree with all of what you said here. I've watched reviews of Midsummer and they are all raving about it but I found it boring. I get it. There's a bad relationship and a cult doing weird shit. Okay what next? Nothing! The whole movie is just this and nothing else. The characters have no agency at all. They do nothing to change their situation. They take all the drugs this clearly weird cult is giving them. There's no growth in characters at all. I remember being so bored during this movie that I wanted to walk out. I understand art is subjective. This is just my opinion. If people enjoyed this below average movie, great. Good for you.
To this day no one has been able to make satanic cults genuinely scary to me. They always come off as comedically evil. As soon as this elderly white woman explained what they were doing it just became funny, which I don't think Ari was going for. Even after understanding that everything that happens is real within the context of the movie, the rational part of my brain still goes "lmfao y'all actually believe this shit?" as soon as they start "hailing Paimon". Hereditary was the most unnerving upsetting horror film I'd ever seen up until that last scene.
I couldn't agree more regarding Midsommar's critique. I think it's a very original, memorable, visually striking movie and Florence acting was great. But I can't really recommend it because of how one dimensional the characters are. They were not only uninteresting but also really shallow and their actions weren't believable so I was never really involved in the movie because I was constantly reminded that it was fiction, the characters simply didn't feel real. Plus, it was quite long so I got a bit bored.
I always fully recommend Hereditary, which was really good, and say that the director has another horror movie which is fine and even worth the watch even if I don't consider it actually good.
So I personally didn’t mind the whole Paimon portion of the movie. I actually quite enjoyed it. To me, Paimon (while yes, a demonic force) also was representative of Annie’s (Toni Collette) generational trauma passed to her by her mother. She literally inherited the curse of both a demonic pact, as well as possibly mental diseases. And I also find it interesting that Toni Collette is the only character in the movie that commits suicide. Almost as if it’s a warning of what happens when trauma and disease can lead to if untreated, avoided and isolated. The whole part at the end then can almost be seen as Peter (Nat Wolff i think?) now having to live in a world where, yes he’s cared for by the people around him, but he himself is an empty shell after the several traumatic events that have taken place throughout the past few months. That’s a really short amount of time to lose your entire family one by one. I think there’s also something interesting about the fact that the only thing we hear from Peter at the end is the infamous clicking noise his sister (Milly Shapiro) used to make. I can’t quite verbalize what I think it means, but I think there’s something super significant about that, aside from the “oh my sister is part of this twisted parody of the trinity.” I think we would really lose something if the demonic cult throughout this film was lost. Deep levels of grief can lead to an absolutely horrifying life, especially when survivor’s guilt comes into the picture.
as for the end where peter (paimon) makes the clicking noise. Someone made a connection to the Hebrew language with this word פעמון (pa'amon) meaning bell which could be described as a tinkling noise similar to the clicking. The other theory is that Paimon sees himself as a bird making a clucking/clicking noise as many birds do. Charlie draws a pigeon with a crown similar to the crown Paimon wears at the end of the film. Charlie uses a decapitated bird's head for a doll and there are framed paintings of birds in her room.
hereditary. Nothing like those wild parties teens have with the drinking, the making out, the puking and let's not forget the cookies? That's when I dipped out. I watched the whole thing but, C'mon man, cookies?
"Are those weed cookies?"
"No, they are an old recipe called Plot convenience cookies."
Guess I'm in the minority in that I don't really love these movies. I don't dislike them theyre really good in many fronts but I don't think they're for me personally. Though I do love to make the joke that I made these movies bc my name is Ari lmao
Hereditary I liked fine, but it didn't stick with me. Honestly the main things I remember was that the little sister was played by a great actress and that I thought her brother was cute. I remember the shocking ending and I remember my mom hates cult reveals in horror. But other than that it's not a horror that's touched me personally. (I agree though the music is fucking amazing and yeah being reminded of it the acting was stellar)
I only finally saw Midsommar recently and it really just did not get me. I understand the point of the movie just fine but it didn't really make me feel anything at any point in the film. It may come down to the fact I haven't had major loss like Dani, nor been in a longterm abusive relationship quite like hers. But I have been in abusive relationships, both a romantic one and one familial. In fact I watched the movie with my abusive mother. So I get it. And I like what I've read of people's interpretations of the ending. But watching it I didn't really get that vibe. Imo the argument that she's flat bc she's traumatized is really kinda silly. Being an empty and broken individual in reality is not the same as being a flat character in a fictional story. I can name countless stories about hurting suffering people who are detached from reality and every relationship is codependent and unhealthy and in all of them I can confidently say their protagonists are not flat by any means.
Dani is not flat bc she's traumatized, she's flat bc she's not explored enough throughout the movie. She gets a very surface level characterization bc the fact is the majority of the film spends time on artistic symbolism and characters outside of Dani. Most of the movie focuses on unnerving red flags and fun exploration of what can be done with visual media and that's fine. But we can't pretend that means Dani is some wholly fleshed out protagonist. I think people end up projecting onto her and don't realize what they see is really what they're imagining for her. Most of what I'm reading in this comment section alone seems to be personal anecdotal references instead of direct events we can actually see from the movie by itself. It's by no means a bad movie, I like people's interpretations of it far more than my own to the point I'd be willing to watch it again in hopes I see the way some of the people in this comment section do, but frankly it's just not a character driven story. It's got concepts that drive the plot along more than anything. I mean we watch Christian fuck a chick for far too long for me to really believe this movie was character driven and not focused on aesthetics and vibes. Those things have a place in storytelling and it is an extremely valid way of telling a story but it is by no means a way to deeply understand the characters in said story. And personally I prefer character driven stories, so Hereditary and Midsommar in all its symbolism and messages, doesn't appeal to me bc its more about said concepts than it is about its characters. And that's okay. But my favorite stories do both 🤷
Anyway I wholly agree, while neither are my favorites, I think you captured exactly why I like Hereditary a bit more. It's MUCH more character driven and makes you feel for the characters. Midsommar imo is much more focused on its overall narrative than its characters, resulting in an ending that pretty much makes sense ig and isn't as unsatisfying as Hereditary's, but still lacks any emotional catharsis bc the characters just don't make you feel anything.
And I think a lot of people seem to not understand your point. It's not that we should think they're going to magically be a better couple at the end of the film or even that Christian needs to be redeemable, just literally showing a more believable couple. How can we root for Dani if we can't understand her or her relationship with Christian. Once again, surface level, yes Christian is a dick so we support her killing his ass I get that part. But the reason that doesn't feel like anything else is bc we never understand them as a couple in the first place, so there's no emotional depth to watching her freedom, we can't relate to her grief or her joy bc we saw the most basic shallow versions of both of them and their relationship with each other. Like all we saw that was good of Christian was him holding her when her family died. That's IT. If we saw ANYTHING else to see the complexity of how Dani ended up with this guy in the first place, to understand what she's holding onto with him outside of just her trauma and not wanting to be completely alone, we'd maybe actually feel something when we see them fight, or when he ultimately cheats and she ultimately kills his ass but I just didn't feel shit lmao
I think Dani is played the way she is Because of her crippling anxiety and depression - she feels like she has to almost earn a relationship or friendship by always being the giver - to compensate for her depressive /anxious state. I understand that and have been that person - wondering how anyone would want to be with around me when I don’t even want to be around myself - so I’d always overcompensate. And someone that is that depressed and traumatized is going to sometimes present as one dimensional or having no personality at all - bc they are just trying to make it through from day to day and keep the people she has in her life so she doesn’t have to feel so alone. You see her hide her suffering bc she doesn’t want to overburden others with it - thus becomes this ultra altruistic person- someone that feels so deeply - will often feel strongly for others emotions as well. And maybe she feels like if she can save her sister or her relationship that everything will be better one day - and that what she is holding on so tightly for. But it is also weighing her down - so when she finally feels wanted by people that aren’t put off by her strong emotional responses - it makes sense that she’d become sort of “stockholmed” and grab on for that sense of family
Also forgot to add the obvious - of conflicting emotions between finding a family - but also being faced with a terrible choice she must make against her BF to ensure her survival- and what’s left ambiguous is a strong sense of what the aftermath will look like
I don't entirely agree with the statement that the characters in midsommer felt flat. Granted it's been a while but I wanted Dani and Christian to work out simply because I understood where Dani was coming from from facing such a terrible lose and losing her family and aching to keep one person in her life and clinging to that person for dear life. I understood and related to feeling the need to apologize even if it isn't my fault, and yeah I could also tell that Dani and Christian were not going to end together, but I understood where Dani was coming from. I might update this after rewatching midsommer.
I didn’t care for Midsommar but… with Hereditary, at what point would you have wanted the movie to end? Before the mom is possessed? before we see the cult members in the background? or just remove all the cult references and the ending from even before she was possessed? I loved it I thought it was great stuff even if the cult stuff could seem like easy cop out, I think it fits for the type of story it’s telling.
Midsommar… so much potential, and the ending was ok bc she’s the victim and the perpetrator but it was a little too whiny and man hating for me bc her boyfriend got drugged and raped, and is shown to be the bad guy? He was literally drugged and raped and we saw it, it’s not even ambiguous.
Man no.
H is about questioning reality and M is about rationalization and indoctrination. These movies don’t need Tarantino dialogue because the subject matter is more important. The point was to show the steps between normalcy and depravity.
In H you wonder if the thing on screen is actually happening or a delusion caused by grief and guilt. It concludes brilliantly by showing us that unavoidable doom is unavoidable. The story changes according to the ending.
M is about vulnerability and how much of a disadvantage it is in the face of evil. Like the audience, she is slowly fed discomforts, each one worse than the last until she embraces her new status quo.
These movies would have been terrible with strong characters or different endings. Just because they don’t check a few boxes of conventional filmmaking doesn’t mean they aren’t masterpieces. I would argue that it’s what makes them masterpieces.
Hereditary to me was always “great actors, great characters, great direction, great dialogue, but absolutely no plot.”
I’m not sure what you want the ending of Hereditary to be? You just want the movie to be about familial issues dealing with depression? Like a drama with horror aspects?
also I’ll never be able to look at Alex Wolff without thinking about the Naked Brothers Band 💀
I couldn't agree more with your problems with Hereditary!! It really captured the ****meaningless**** horror of something as tragic as a child death. And I think the ending trying to give it meaning really underscores what makes it scary and emotionally legible in the 1st place. I was so disappointed bc pre-3rd act the movie contained an almost other-worldly malevolence unlike anything id seen b4 that....and then it just chalks up the terror of grief to demons :/
As for midsommar, I dont find their relationship problems to be one sided. I think Dani is depressive (justified but still a strain) and indirect. Christian is an interesting character to me because so much of his identity is wrapped up in being a generally good guy that everything about him from his intonation to his mannerisms feels false. Because deep down hes just kinda an asshole and if he accepted that, he would be a better person. He almost seems like a Mark deep down trying to be a Josh and both of those characters come across more honest as a result lmao. I do agree that he could definitely have used a little more charm/humor so we get how he is lovable and why dani might hesitate to let go. I remember that Ari Aster once said his goal in Midsommar was to get to an "inevitable ending in an emotionally surprising way" so maybe its less that we have suspense about whether the relationship will last but whether Dani will be ok.
At the same time though your point about Dani being an idealized version of a grieving person is SO TRUE
Loved this video!!!
"And the dad is just- There." considering that i completely forgot the dad was a character, i'd say /barely/ there
I feel like Alex Wolff kind of gets shade whenever hereditary is brought up and I get it Toni collette DiD play her part phenomenally but I think he stood his ground in the movie… the scenes where he’s dealing with the aftermath of his sister’s death, the nightmare scene and the scene where he’s being controlled by his sister is fantastically acted
This dude just wanted to watch a drama lol
as a someone who has been in an abusive emotionally draining relationship i totally bought the relationship between dani and chris. he gives her just enough to not be able to quit and she knows it but cannot leave because she doesn't have anyone else. he says i love you back to her even though he sighs heavily, just enough. So when dani thinks she's found a new loving family she is able to get rid of him
imagine coming after a genius and being so oblivious to his craft. ur meeptop on youtube a position that with no qualifications.
I definitely appreciate how thoughtful your critiques are.
What I find interesting about midsommar is that I saw it once, in theaters and to be honest, it was a catalyst for me to end a five year relationship that had become unsalvageable but bound by mutual codependency. I’m not saying midsommar was the end all be all but I felt elated leaving the theater, like I didn’t have any doubt what needed to be done. So for me, because I was in this place where any onlooker could certainly tell that the relationship wasn’t serving anything good to either of us, and bringing out the worst in both of us, it was easier for me to see then and there how attached you could still be
I agree that seeing another side to them, or the early stages could have added and maybe I’m a bit biased but I didn’t need it to understand and relate to being held back from doing something so honest and how liberated, if even very painful, letting go was in that moment.
Great video btw
Something so hard*
I think you make a great point of Dani being the “idealized version of a grieving person.” 19:40 like you said she’s not doing anything “selfish” or “hurtful” without justification. To me that seems like a big cat-cradle dynamic of her similarities with the cult’s culture. She extends herself into the cult in such a similar way to her relationship with her boyfriend. We see off the bat Dani feels she’s in a desperate need to be a people pleaser, that her feelings r being disrespected and swept under the rug right before her sister and parents die. Dani makes no justification for those emotional pitfalls that are expected after loosing her family in a traumatic way. 1. She gives into peer pressure & takes the shrooms thanks to the friend group. 2She is so used to this pattern of consistently being let down/ shut out. Having a barrier of this intimacy with her relationship, which was expressed earlier in the film by Dani’s friend on the phone as she reads her sisters email. I Believe the point of Ari not providing more insight to the twos relationship was to seriously highlight this. , that is progressively turned around as the characters sink further into the Cults Grasp, not in the typical theater way we expect though. The community idolizes Dani, cries with her even after she witnesses the mating ritual. Palae takes a major interest in her, and is togging/ hinting her fate as the storyline persists. Her emotions are progressively validated as the flim goes on, No through her already existing circle of support and love but the foreign, mysterious, utopian external. It’s a pretty accurate depiction of how people get so caught up and devote their lives to cultism. towards the end she is put in a position of power as May queen we finally get that blissful moment of her experiencing emotional fulfillment & validation in the mist of her setting her ex boyfriend on fire. I think in a lot of ways that build up is what’s so enticing & adds to her dimension as a character. She’s placed in a position of power & respect. One that she was Greatly lacking before. Her rage, anger, emotions feel safe enough for her to justify her heavy cut throat decisions. It’s a wonderful development to watch.
I think Aris style of making them “plastic” and “diluted” characters was for the soul purpose of emphasizing the “wonder” & sense of peace / tranquility/ purpose the Cult ultimately brings Danny. The scenery, the color palette, the flowers. It’s meant to portray the cult being a safe heaven & ultimately glorified destination for her. Perhaps we’re supposed to view their lives together as “dull” with both being too afraid to leave each-other on opposite personality - gender spectrums. No sparks between them , no high / happy moments because their relationship was never grounded in such. They were just as foreign to each-other as the Cult was to them in the beginning.
When it comes to Hereditary. I was pleasantly satisfied that it wasn't just another "the horror is a metaphor for grief" movie. It's been done to death, especially in modern horror(See: Babadook). The ending left me speechless, and knowing that the real Charlie never existed really solidifies the terror for me.
Hereditary's ending was amazing in my opinion. It paid off what we were being sold the entire film. The flip side to this would have been the grandma and her cult worshiping a demon that doesn't actually exist and ultimately would have had no bearing on the outcome of the film. Ultimately that would have just made a massive amount of the film arbitrary and would have made the supernatural occurrences make absolutely no sense. Why would the husband have caught fire? Why would the seance have worked? Why would the lightpole, marked by the cult, have been the exact spot of Charlie's decapitation? A decapitation that, according to the cult, was necessary as the grandmother had given Charlie's physical body over to Paimon as a baby. Charlie needed to die in order for Paimon to be released to a new physical body.
All of this would have just been coincidental and arbitrary devil worship if Paimon didn't exist within the world of the film. And if Paimon exists within the world of the film, then he acts as the major driving force behind all the horrendous stuff that happens to this family. I forget exactly what Greek Tragedy they were talking about in Peter's class, but essentially that's what this movie was going for. Paimon and the cult used this family purely as a way to possess a male body, which from the beginning of the film is made incredibly clear as the grandmother's goal (trying to breastfeed Peter, etc.).
Having the film's main antagonist never appear would be an insane choice and would have left myself, and I'm sure many others, with a sense of in-completion.
For all we know, the grandma and cult could've just been insane. The ambiguity to whether or not all the events that take place were from a demon is the scary part about it and the best aspect of the film. "Rosemary's Baby" is a movie that does Heriditary's twist ending more effectively. If I wanted to watch a horror movie with that kind of storyline, I would watch that movie. It may seem coincidental and arbitrary, but at least it makes the movie more unqiue than: family is tramatized because of entended family's cult that worships a demon.
@@GeekZone210 it makes it insanely tragic and bleak that the grandma would knowingly destroy her daughter’s family in order to appease a demon. Not only would a family not expect their matriarch to betray them like that, but to then also be completely and utterly powerless to change their outcome. It was horrifically sad and tragic.
Without Paimon existing it would’ve been a series of coincidences that happened to work in the Cult’s favor which is not at all satisfying.
I feel like we watch totally different movies bc I get exactly what Ari Aster wanted to portray.