Sorry for doing the umm actually but I think that if you were to say this out loud it would sound better to say "Suspiciously fighter jet-shaped throat".
I like how in the origin form dialga’s throat is blocked so it can’t do roar of time. While origin palkia has its arms cut off so it can’t use spacial rend. Fun detail in the two origin forms that I think adds a lot
@@kingspheal363I guess it means that it’s stronger (being closer to arceus) but struggles doing it’s signature move properly (being closer to arceus than it’s own thing)
I’ve heard before that it’s dialga and palkias attempt at imitating arceus, it’s why they suddenly look so much closer to it, unlike giratina who tries to distance itself from arceus, and thus has a much more _natural_ Origin form
I always read the origin forms as tragic as well as cosmic. In attempting to be like Arceus or actually returning to Arceus, they lose what made them functional animals in their base forms: flat hooves, thick muscle, mouths that can open. As I think someone else pointed out, can’t remember who - the distortions in their forms also restrict the use of their signature moves. The arm claws that Palkia uses in the Spacial Rend move are transformed into hooves. Dialga can no longer use Roar of Time because its jaw is fused shut, and the crest-like object in its chest could read as an obstruction in its throat. The designs are conveying “true form” while also NOT conveying “comfortable form,” and that might be why so many people are turned off by the designs. They’re correctly picking up on how these creatures should not exist.
@@AusVtuber Not really Roar of Time gains power, loses accuracy Spatial Rend gains critrate, loses both power and accuracy That's not what I'd call getting stronger
Damn. You actually made me respect the design of the TIME HORSE. I totally missed the ring around it a middle in game, too caught up in how it has a Dragapult head stuck in its throat
Now THIS looks like biblically accurate horror I can’t comprehend and I fw it HARD. These designs look like something an old researcher would frantically describe in ancient text while in shock and awe
exactly! I dont get why people hate on these designs so much because they're 'too weird'. Its kind of the whole point of them. I definetly feel like they are borrowing a bit of design philosophy from the ultra beasts.
@sejsuper4660tbh I liked Palkia’s form but Dialga just looks like an actual 3d scribble to me. It has some good concepts but it just kinda does nothing with them except the Arceus parrellel
The only thing I dislike here is that giratina just seems like the odd one out randomly now. It's origin form is weirdly normal compared to these two when it probably should be just as alien but at the same time I like origin giratina so I don't want them to change it.
I really like the Origin forms specifically because they look kinda bad and unfinished. They are literally a new born gods first creations and it shows. Dialga looks to smooth and its shape is so weird and elongated. Palkia looks like it has to many ideas smashed together and none of these ideas seem fleshed out. It’s Arceu’s first (and kinda shitty) attempt at creating something new and as we can tell. It got better at it. I also really like the idea that Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina having to design and create their other forms for themselves in order to have basic functionality. We also kinda see that they try to compensate for the flaws that Arceus left them with. O-form Dialga is smooth and elongated and so when it created its own body Dialga made it intimidating, rigid and added more plating and spikes to itself. Palkia in its origin form is a mismatch between 2 ideas and so in its own form it picks the pieces of itself that it likes and completes the idea. (Also giving itself arms was probably just a massive plus) Giratina who’s stuck flying around with its snake like body gave itself Legs and more structure. It’s such a cool idea for designing a god trio!
I think it does, it doesnt stick the landing in the sence of looking baseline "cool" which to (most) people is the only requirement a legendary needs to fullfil, but i personally really like the abstraction here it feels otherworldly in a way not even deoxys really fills
I think it works for Palkia, but not Dialga. For me, Origin Palkia hits that nice in-between of weird, regal, and cool. Origin Dialga, while I appreciate some aspects of the design, is too goofy for me to take seriously.
@@MeatbagSlayer// Super agree with you; I also feel as though it works for Palkia, but not Dialga. The neckpiece thing is just so.... lopsided :/ Time is a concept that is as uniform, heavy, and structured as it is loose, winding, and relative. I could feel the heaviness in Dialgas original 4th gen form back when it released -- this iteration it looks... half-baked. Palkias two forms look cohesive enough to bear the magnitude of space, with an interesting transition from a bipedal body to a quadrapedal body. There is a logical transition between the two. Origin Dialga looks like it got stuck something stuck in its throat, then it's body mutated to accommodate it. This just doesn't feel like a fully fleshed out evolution of the original creature.
I love the origin forms because as the name implies that these are the original forms of these gods when Arceus made them to create time and space. It’s the form of creatures literally from the beginning of creation and I love how disjointed they look. Like crooked copies of Arceus that both refined over time and lost much of their original power doing so.
What i love about these and i hope you mention it. Is that if you put all 3 dialga giratina and palkias origin formes together. You get a pokemon really close to arceus. Its as if it took 3 parts of itself and split them into the 3. Its a really cool piece of story telling and makes the statue in DPP that much cooler
Finally some appreciation for this thing! I really like dialga and palkias origen forms for reasons i cant really explain it just works for me. Yeah theyr wierd but theyr soppused to be wierd and it works pretty well imo. Also something i noticed is that one of dialgas animations has it take a sturdy stance then recoil slightly as the glowie blue part on its chest flickers implying that it can use it like a cannon
While I can appreciate what the devs were trying to do with the Origin forms of Dialga and Palkia, I feel like Dialga falls flat in a few places. Design wise it’s neat, I can’t add much of anything that you haven’t already said, but the color scheme they used sort of sucks imma be honest. The removal of the originals formes steel colouring around the jewel and tail fins is the biggest problem. If I took off my glasses it all bleeds together in a way that just doesn’t look appealing to me. Like it’s missing a texture that hasn’t loaded in. I saw an edit of it on Twitter a few months back where one person recoloured those parts back to silver, and it was genuinely the only reason I was willing to give the design a chance
A really neat detail about Dialga and Palkia is that their creation states how they were "set free" from Arceus. Arceus didn't just cast a spell and materialized Dialga and Palkia from nothing, they are parts of the original one which Arceus effectively birthed from their own flesh. These are their origin forms, what they first took on before taking forms better suited to the reality they maintain. And its why Origin Palkia's dex entry states the following "Perhaps this imitation of appearance is Palkia's strategy for gaining Arceus's powers." Dialga and Palkia entering their origin forms is them, either through a berserk rampage or willing defiance, are betraying the cosmic roles they have been given in a pursuit of more power. Giratina is a similar case but switched. Giratina isn't meant for this reality and takes on their altered form when they enter Poké-earth, even though they realllyy should be back in the distortion world.
I think its fun to recall how people responded to these forms at first, noting how awkward and weird they look, cuz i used to feel that way but now they’re some of my favorite legendary designs. Really love seeing Pokemon reinterpret old designs in this fashion
I will say this, on the video about the Pokémon I like the least of the creation trip, but I adore how abstract they all are I'll admit it did take me some time to appreciate them, but them being so all over the place really reads as a "Being who is not restrained by the limitations of the lower planes of existence or conventional biology" they look like some sort of ancient abstract painting of something humans couldn't really understand, but just instinctively *knew* was important and powerful. I love that sort of wild reimagining of the design (BTW, love that you used Primal Dialga's theme from Pokémon mystery dungeon, you're awesome)
Since Giratina is the only one of the trio whose normal form is called 'altered', I belive that Palkia and Dialga have a different context for the 'origin' in their name. Giratina's is his true form, the ideal form to live in the distorsion world, where everything works by Giratina's rules. Meanwhile Palkia and Dialga's origin forms are their attempt to get closer to the origin of everything to gain power, hence why they take partial elements from Arceus desing and look like they have rearranged their body just resemble their creator more.
I think that the crest on its back kinda resembles Time Gears from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, which is honestly extra fitting for Dialga, with both the time association and the fact it's the final boss of one of those games.
Fun fact - if you look at Origin Dialga from the side you can see that's not its neck but an armless torso. It's not a sauropod but a centaur, like Palkia. The weird "fork-stuck-in-Squidward's-throat" protrusian is a chest plate and pauldrons. It's an aspect about its design that really urks me isn't communicated more clearly.
Back before the teraleak, I had a headcanon that origin dialga and palkia took on the more arceus like appearance to call upon a bit of its power kinda like how the spin works in Jojo part 7 where the closer you get to the golden ratio (i.e. arceus) the more power you have access to
While I like Palkia's Origin design over Dialga's, I really love both. They look like a mix between an ancient statue and an unknowable abomination, which is fitting for the Pokemon.
His shape language also much more resembles clocks than the base form, I think that's a neat reinterpretation basically "fixing" the more weak psrts of the original Dialga design
What is important for things making sense is consistency. When there is a pattern of actions and behavior, it starts to make sense, no matter how ridiculous the context is.
I looooove this music, Fight to the Finish, Dialgas battle theme from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. Possibly my favourite pokemon music ever, and there is a lot of strong competition.
I've come around to this design more than I expected I would. Its scale and sheer size especially when sent out in Violet probably helped, as did the cipious shades of blue. But beyond that, I like how alien this entity of time is. I like how, in contrast to the clear contrast between blue body and metallic details you find on the base form, here it all melds together and forms gradients, on the legs as well as the fan crest... thing on its back.
I really want to like the origin forms for dialga and palkia, but I just can't. For me it's the colors it really feels like they wanted to do only 2 colors but someone made them keep the grey and they just stuck it in this awkward fade on their feet and back pieces and it's just so distracting my eyes are drawn away from the body.
I saw an edit of it on Twitter a few months back, and they recoloured the chest piece, fins and claws to all be the same solid color that regular dialga has and it was genuinely a million times better for me. The color contrast helped make it not look like a giant blue blob, and it made it so the chest piece was stuck in its throat.
@Castersvarog I went searching and I found the one you're talking about and omg yes this design feels so much more intentional and all that changed was the colors
One of the things I love the most about Origin Dialga and Palkia is that broad area around their "throats", which I read as an abstract torso that gives off a sort of eldritch centaur-like feeling, which may I just say, that goes incredibly hard!
There is a more subtle theme going on in their designs. Origin Dialga and Palkia are also armless centaurs. It is more easily noticeable in Origin Palkia, but it is also very much present in Origin Dialga, with it having "shoulder pads" around its neck.
Small detail i love: when Dialga uses Roar of Time in this form, the guard covering its mouth flips up to cover its eyes, resembling a visor on a knight's armor
i love that the fan-tail is like really flappy too it moves so fleshely, im honestly such a big fan of the origin formes it’s the closest we’ll ever get to “Biblically Accurate” interpretations & Eldritch beings
Dialga has always have been my favourite Legendary, the design of its Origin forms comes off strange and unusual, in lore context, it's done spectacularly and I love it it for it.
"A gundam head attached to a bullet vibrator" are words stringed into a sentence I never thought I wanted to hear, but in fact is a masterpiece to hear first thing in the morning.
I never got the idea that these are their true forms and the forms we normally see them in are their restrained forms, if anything I saw the opposite, considering that in their Origin forms, Dialga has that giant throat blockage where as Palkia loses it's arms, meaning they sacrifice their ability to perform their signature moves as effectively as they should in an attempt to become more like Arceus, hence the 'Origin' in Origin form.
While I prefer Origin Palkia from a purely aesthetic point, I think Origin Dialga gets the "incomprehensible being" part better. The former could probably look badass by just adding arms, but the latter? There's much more you'd need to change to make it a typically cool design. The contrast between thick front legs and slim hind legs, the minuscule tail, the shining marks on regular Dialga physically emerging into solid spikes, the huge choking thing in the neck, the former metal parts fusing with the blue skin... It really looks like something you're not supposed to grasp, and when taking the context into account, I prefer it to Origin Palkia. Excellent choice of music too, Dialga's Fight to the Finish my beloved!
You have NO IDEA how long I've wanted a justifiably competent and sympathetic take on Dialga's Origin Form, without it devolving into dead memes. Excellent work.
I actually really like this design, you can sort of see the flow of time in it, with the simpler earlier era being the smoother back, and the more advanced technological future aspect in the more angular and detailed front, its really cool, plus I like abstract character designs
My favourite thing about the origin forms of the trio is that when you overlay them it forms arceus’ silhouette, it really adds a lot of lore to the pokemon almost as if they’re struggling for control against each other
To me, both origin forms mostly read as "we don't wanna make that one cutscene twice depending on which of the 2 you get, so we'll make a form for both that's similar enough, as to where we can use the same animation for both.
It also plays apon the statue in DP which looks like a mix between Diagla and Palkia where people think its one or the other. The Origin forms of both look way more similar which makes sense as to why people might confuse the two.
Something interesting I've noticed is that Palkia's forms complete eachother. Base Palkia is a knight, and his Origin form is a centaur. Horse and rider. Base Dialga is a dinosaur, and with the rough, rocky shapes of his Origin form, he's a meteor.
I haven't played the game it's from, but at a glance it definitely comes off to me as one of arceus's earliest creations; Almost like a prototype or a concept sketch, made before the design motifs of the universe were finalized. Something which, after it finished helping create all of reality, then molded itself into a more polished form better suited to exist in that reality.
im glad i chose the path in pla that lead to this being the origin forme legendary on top of mount coronet, it was such a dramatic reveal and love how alien the design is, but you can still see both aspects of arceus and base form dialga in it, and yet it’s so different from them. one of my favourite legendary designs because the design language behind it is just so compelling
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE how separately, the Creation Trio's Origin forms are very bizarre and abstract. Combined together, however... they effectively make Arceus. All of them embody these twisted, not-quite-there imitations of the avatar through which Arceus presents itself, which in and of itself is Arceus' own 'altered' forme of sorts. Really gives a sense of scale to Arceus' true strength and significance, where its creations are trying to maximise their own power by copying... a weaker *avatar* of their creator.
I like how the Origin Forms of Dialga and Palkia seem to have gained a lot more respect from the community over time, with them being mocked relentlessly when they were first revealed.
To be fair, that tends to happen with every batch of new Pokemon. A lot of "The previous generation was better" when they did the exact same back with that one.
"Over a decade since its original" god, the fact that gen 4 is closer to 2 decades old now is legitimately terrifying as someone who started with it as a kid
Turning around the 3D model you can clearly see a tiny “cotton ball” tail, and based on how it moves and attacks resembles a Hare. Which has me puzzled as to how the Origin Formes compliment each other, being a Hare for Dialga, a Horse for Palkia, and a Serpent for Giratina
It’s a really hit or miss design with most people. I didn’t like it on Palkia, but was indifferent on Dialga, but they grew on me with time. Especially when someone took specific pieces from the creation trio to create Arceus’s body, which gave this a stroke of genius.
Have in mind that Palkia not having hands and Dialga having that thing in the throat is referencing the moves. You need hands to (spacial) rend and you need your voice to roar (of time). The moves also become stronger in the origin forms. This makes me think that this restriction was put by some higher force (Probably Arceus) to stop them from destroying time and space
I love the design resembling Arceus in it's more unrestrained form, makes them feel so more connected. On another note, I'd love to see you review Diancie's design.
Somehow I knew a comment saying this form was weaker in some way would be at the top despite the games telling you in every way possible it’s the opposite In Dialga’s case the source of its power is now closer to its mouth and grown far larger. It’s grown so powerful that it no longer needs a roar to control/warp time, but a whisper. As for Palkia it never lost its arms, they simply became its forelegs. Its pearls have completely overtaken where its shoulders used to be and vastly increased its control over space. Each step it takes sends ripples through space, and Arceus save you if it starts running.
"Hey, where's my stealth jet"
*dialga with a suspiciously-shaped fighter jet throat:*
"We outta stealth jets"
The *literal* throat-goat
"Giratina did it"
Sorry for doing the umm actually but I think that if you were to say this out loud it would sound better to say "Suspiciously fighter jet-shaped throat".
Dialga: I was hungry! *Burps*
I like how in the origin form dialga’s throat is blocked so it can’t do roar of time. While origin palkia has its arms cut off so it can’t use spacial rend. Fun detail in the two origin forms that I think adds a lot
Saying it can't do roar of time seems a bit odd since not only does it still do the move, it's more powerful, just less accurate
@@kingspheal363I guess it means that it’s stronger (being closer to arceus) but struggles doing it’s signature move properly (being closer to arceus than it’s own thing)
@ it’s more so altered. I think the better way to phrase it is that they are trying to imitate arceus while losing their most important parts
Yeah, It's a good way of telling how being similar to Arceus gets rid of part of what makes Dialga itself
It would be cool if that wouldn't be the complete opposite of what actualy happens in game
Biblically accurate Dialga
That name does... Attempt to save the design. It doesnt. Not even a little, but i suppose it isnt far off of an idea.
Well I guess more...arcally? Accurate dialga.
I’ve heard before that it’s dialga and palkias attempt at imitating arceus, it’s why they suddenly look so much closer to it, unlike giratina who tries to distance itself from arceus, and thus has a much more _natural_ Origin form
@@dustin202Yup, it says so in the pokedex
I also like that the ring around dialgas midriff looks a bit like clock hands, signifying its time control
I always read the origin forms as tragic as well as cosmic. In attempting to be like Arceus or actually returning to Arceus, they lose what made them functional animals in their base forms: flat hooves, thick muscle, mouths that can open. As I think someone else pointed out, can’t remember who - the distortions in their forms also restrict the use of their signature moves. The arm claws that Palkia uses in the Spacial Rend move are transformed into hooves. Dialga can no longer use Roar of Time because its jaw is fused shut, and the crest-like object in its chest could read as an obstruction in its throat. The designs are conveying “true form” while also NOT conveying “comfortable form,” and that might be why so many people are turned off by the designs. They’re correctly picking up on how these creatures should not exist.
very interessting take.
im was also never a fan of their desogns but your comment jere made me appreciate them alot more.
thanks for sharing 😊
Very well articulated, thank you for the insight. I appreciate it as much as the video even!
They literally can still use their signature moves, and those moves are even stronger while in their origin forms.
The only ones who’s true form is the origin form is Giratina
@@AusVtuber Not really
Roar of Time gains power, loses accuracy
Spatial Rend gains critrate, loses both power and accuracy
That's not what I'd call getting stronger
Damn. You actually made me respect the design of the TIME HORSE. I totally missed the ring around it a middle in game, too caught up in how it has a Dragapult head stuck in its throat
Now THIS looks like biblically accurate horror I can’t comprehend and I fw it HARD. These designs look like something an old researcher would frantically describe in ancient text while in shock and awe
exactly! I dont get why people hate on these designs so much because they're 'too weird'. Its kind of the whole point of them. I definetly feel like they are borrowing a bit of design philosophy from the ultra beasts.
@sejsuper4660oh my god, they're picking up lessons learned from the ultra beasts.
@sejsuper4660tbh I liked Palkia’s form but Dialga just looks like an actual 3d scribble to me. It has some good concepts but it just kinda does nothing with them except the Arceus parrellel
i knoww
The only thing I dislike here is that giratina just seems like the odd one out randomly now. It's origin form is weirdly normal compared to these two when it probably should be just as alien but at the same time I like origin giratina so I don't want them to change it.
I really like the Origin forms specifically because they look kinda bad and unfinished.
They are literally a new born gods first creations and it shows. Dialga looks to smooth and its shape is so weird and elongated.
Palkia looks like it has to many ideas smashed together and none of these ideas seem fleshed out. It’s Arceu’s first (and kinda shitty) attempt at creating something new and as we can tell. It got better at it.
I also really like the idea that Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina having to design and create their other forms for themselves in order to have basic functionality.
We also kinda see that they try to compensate for the flaws that Arceus left them with. O-form Dialga is smooth and elongated and so when it created its own body Dialga made it intimidating, rigid and added more plating and spikes to itself.
Palkia in its origin form is a mismatch between 2 ideas and so in its own form it picks the pieces of itself that it likes and completes the idea. (Also giving itself arms was probably just a massive plus)
Giratina who’s stuck flying around with its snake like body gave itself Legs and more structure.
It’s such a cool idea for designing a god trio!
Gonna nickname my Origin Forme Dialga Bullet now, thanks for the inspiration. 😂
It doesn't looks much like a Tiger though.
Neither does Palkia.
It doesn't look much more like a Dragon either, that being said.
Who's bullet
I need more bullet
Hearing that theme again awakened my inner child
MYSTERY DUNGEON MUSIC YEAH❗️❗️💯💯🗣🗣
I was wondering which one it is ??
@evarya7099 it's the primal dialga theme
I can appreciate what they were going for, but I don't really think it sticks the landing
I disagree. I think it sticks the landing quite well. The only issue is it only sticks the landing in context of the other legendaries of Sinnoh.
I think it does, it doesnt stick the landing in the sence of looking baseline "cool" which to (most) people is the only requirement a legendary needs to fullfil, but i personally really like the abstraction here it feels otherworldly in a way not even deoxys really fills
To be fair, I don't think I could stick any kind of landing with those legs either
I think it works for Palkia, but not Dialga. For me, Origin Palkia hits that nice in-between of weird, regal, and cool. Origin Dialga, while I appreciate some aspects of the design, is too goofy for me to take seriously.
@@MeatbagSlayer// Super agree with you; I also feel as though it works for Palkia, but not Dialga. The neckpiece thing is just so.... lopsided :/
Time is a concept that is as uniform, heavy, and structured as it is loose, winding, and relative. I could feel the heaviness in Dialgas original 4th gen form back when it released -- this iteration it looks... half-baked. Palkias two forms look cohesive enough to bear the magnitude of space, with an interesting transition from a bipedal body to a quadrapedal body. There is a logical transition between the two.
Origin Dialga looks like it got stuck something stuck in its throat, then it's body mutated to accommodate it. This just doesn't feel like a fully fleshed out evolution of the original creature.
Fight to the finish playing in the background is chef's kiss
yes, it's really fitting
I love the origin forms because as the name implies that these are the original forms of these gods when Arceus made them to create time and space. It’s the form of creatures literally from the beginning of creation and I love how disjointed they look. Like crooked copies of Arceus that both refined over time and lost much of their original power doing so.
The fight to the finish...
"Dialga used Roar of Time."
What i love about these and i hope you mention it. Is that if you put all 3 dialga giratina and palkias origin formes together. You get a pokemon really close to arceus. Its as if it took 3 parts of itself and split them into the 3. Its a really cool piece of story telling and makes the statue in DPP that much cooler
It looks like it swallowed a jet fighter
Finally some appreciation for this thing! I really like dialga and palkias origen forms for reasons i cant really explain it just works for me. Yeah theyr wierd but theyr soppused to be wierd and it works pretty well imo. Also something i noticed is that one of dialgas animations has it take a sturdy stance then recoil slightly as the glowie blue part on its chest flickers implying that it can use it like a cannon
While I can appreciate what the devs were trying to do with the Origin forms of Dialga and Palkia, I feel like Dialga falls flat in a few places. Design wise it’s neat, I can’t add much of anything that you haven’t already said, but the color scheme they used sort of sucks imma be honest.
The removal of the originals formes steel colouring around the jewel and tail fins is the biggest problem. If I took off my glasses it all bleeds together in a way that just doesn’t look appealing to me. Like it’s missing a texture that hasn’t loaded in.
I saw an edit of it on Twitter a few months back where one person recoloured those parts back to silver, and it was genuinely the only reason I was willing to give the design a chance
A really neat detail about Dialga and Palkia is that their creation states how they were "set free" from Arceus. Arceus didn't just cast a spell and materialized Dialga and Palkia from nothing, they are parts of the original one which Arceus effectively birthed from their own flesh.
These are their origin forms, what they first took on before taking forms better suited to the reality they maintain. And its why Origin Palkia's dex entry states the following "Perhaps this imitation of appearance is Palkia's strategy for gaining Arceus's powers."
Dialga and Palkia entering their origin forms is them, either through a berserk rampage or willing defiance, are betraying the cosmic roles they have been given in a pursuit of more power.
Giratina is a similar case but switched. Giratina isn't meant for this reality and takes on their altered form when they enter Poké-earth, even though they realllyy should be back in the distortion world.
He's speaking the visual language of the gods!
I think its fun to recall how people responded to these forms at first, noting how awkward and weird they look, cuz i used to feel that way but now they’re some of my favorite legendary designs. Really love seeing Pokemon reinterpret old designs in this fashion
Did anyone else realize he put the shiny version of dialga instead of the original one?
I was scrolling through the comments for this exact reason!!! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed!
I will say this, on the video about the Pokémon I like the least of the creation trip, but I adore how abstract they all are
I'll admit it did take me some time to appreciate them, but them being so all over the place really reads as a "Being who is not restrained by the limitations of the lower planes of existence or conventional biology" they look like some sort of ancient abstract painting of something humans couldn't really understand, but just instinctively *knew* was important and powerful. I love that sort of wild reimagining of the design
(BTW, love that you used Primal Dialga's theme from Pokémon mystery dungeon, you're awesome)
Since Giratina is the only one of the trio whose normal form is called 'altered', I belive that Palkia and Dialga have a different context for the 'origin' in their name.
Giratina's is his true form, the ideal form to live in the distorsion world, where everything works by Giratina's rules.
Meanwhile Palkia and Dialga's origin forms are their attempt to get closer to the origin of everything to gain power, hence why they take partial elements from Arceus desing and look like they have rearranged their body just resemble their creator more.
Every time I hear PMD soundtrack it fills me with warmth and good memories. Peak game
I think that the crest on its back kinda resembles Time Gears from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, which is honestly extra fitting for Dialga, with both the time association and the fact it's the final boss of one of those games.
Fun fact - if you look at Origin Dialga from the side you can see that's not its neck but an armless torso. It's not a sauropod but a centaur, like Palkia. The weird "fork-stuck-in-Squidward's-throat" protrusian is a chest plate and pauldrons.
It's an aspect about its design that really urks me isn't communicated more clearly.
The frill on the back with the strange four-arrow halo on its mid section makes me think of the hands on a clock, tbh.
Back before the teraleak, I had a headcanon that origin dialga and palkia took on the more arceus like appearance to call upon a bit of its power kinda like how the spin works in Jojo part 7 where the closer you get to the golden ratio (i.e. arceus) the more power you have access to
While I like Palkia's Origin design over Dialga's, I really love both. They look like a mix between an ancient statue and an unknowable abomination, which is fitting for the Pokemon.
His shape language also much more resembles clocks than the base form, I think that's a neat reinterpretation basically "fixing" the more weak psrts of the original Dialga design
What is important for things making sense is consistency. When there is a pattern of actions and behavior, it starts to make sense, no matter how ridiculous the context is.
Any everyone laughed at me when I called this form a Giraffe that swallowed a boulder
I looooove this music, Fight to the Finish, Dialgas battle theme from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. Possibly my favourite pokemon music ever, and there is a lot of strong competition.
Yo!!! Dialga’s fight to the finish is a bop
I can never get that image of Squidward with the fork stuck in his throat whenever I look at it
I've come around to this design more than I expected I would. Its scale and sheer size especially when sent out in Violet probably helped, as did the cipious shades of blue. But beyond that, I like how alien this entity of time is. I like how, in contrast to the clear contrast between blue body and metallic details you find on the base form, here it all melds together and forms gradients, on the legs as well as the fan crest... thing on its back.
GOATED MUSIC CHOICE RAHHHHHHHH GOD BLESS THE EDITOR
You hit me in the feelings with that music man, also great short, thanks for both.
he looks like he was forced to swallow a pill that was too big for him 🤣💊
Honestly I think the 2 new origin forms look a lot better in their artworks than in 3d.
I really want to like the origin forms for dialga and palkia, but I just can't. For me it's the colors it really feels like they wanted to do only 2 colors but someone made them keep the grey and they just stuck it in this awkward fade on their feet and back pieces and it's just so distracting my eyes are drawn away from the body.
I saw an edit of it on Twitter a few months back, and they recoloured the chest piece, fins and claws to all be the same solid color that regular dialga has and it was genuinely a million times better for me.
The color contrast helped make it not look like a giant blue blob, and it made it so the chest piece was stuck in its throat.
@Castersvarog I went searching and I found the one you're talking about and omg yes this design feels so much more intentional and all that changed was the colors
The neck design reminds me of that one SpongeBob episode where Squidward got a piece of clarinet stuck his throat😂
One of the things I love the most about Origin Dialga and Palkia is that broad area around their "throats", which I read as an abstract torso that gives off a sort of eldritch centaur-like feeling, which may I just say, that goes incredibly hard!
I like that it has clock needles to actually tie into its actual role.
There is a more subtle theme going on in their designs. Origin Dialga and Palkia are also armless centaurs.
It is more easily noticeable in Origin Palkia, but it is also very much present in Origin Dialga, with it having "shoulder pads" around its neck.
Don’t forget Primal Dialga before Primal Pokémon where a thing
Small detail i love: when Dialga uses Roar of Time in this form, the guard covering its mouth flips up to cover its eyes, resembling a visor on a knight's armor
I like how goofy the origin formes look.
i love that the fan-tail is like really flappy too it moves so fleshely, im honestly such a big fan of the origin formes it’s the closest we’ll ever get to “Biblically Accurate” interpretations & Eldritch beings
Dialga has always have been my favourite Legendary, the design of its Origin forms comes off strange and unusual, in lore context, it's done spectacularly and I love it it for it.
"A gundam head attached to a bullet vibrator" are words stringed into a sentence I never thought I wanted to hear, but in fact is a masterpiece to hear first thing in the morning.
I never got the idea that these are their true forms and the forms we normally see them in are their restrained forms, if anything I saw the opposite, considering that in their Origin forms, Dialga has that giant throat blockage where as Palkia loses it's arms, meaning they sacrifice their ability to perform their signature moves as effectively as they should in an attempt to become more like Arceus, hence the 'Origin' in Origin form.
People can have their "Squidward swallowing a pill" jokes all they like, I love this form of Dialga!
First person I’ve seen that likes Dialga’s origin forme over the regular form
I’m the same honestly. I love biblically accurate cosmic horror Dialga
YES incredible take. I love how alien and abstract the origin forms are, yet they have this clearly divine Power to them
After that breakthrough, I still cannot see this desing without thinking that he's chocking with something
considering how risk averse pokemon games often are its very fun to see such wild designs being put out there
first time i've heard someone like origin Dialga
The cosmic language of Pokémon is that the closer you resemble a llama, the closer to god you are.
While I prefer Origin Palkia from a purely aesthetic point, I think Origin Dialga gets the "incomprehensible being" part better. The former could probably look badass by just adding arms, but the latter? There's much more you'd need to change to make it a typically cool design. The contrast between thick front legs and slim hind legs, the minuscule tail, the shining marks on regular Dialga physically emerging into solid spikes, the huge choking thing in the neck, the former metal parts fusing with the blue skin... It really looks like something you're not supposed to grasp, and when taking the context into account, I prefer it to Origin Palkia.
Excellent choice of music too, Dialga's Fight to the Finish my beloved!
The cowards were too afraid tp put in Primal Dialga 2.0
The Primal Dialga battle theme in the background is appreciated
You have NO IDEA how long I've wanted a justifiably competent and sympathetic take on Dialga's Origin Form, without it devolving into dead memes. Excellent work.
I just noticed his back fin now looks like the time gears from Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Darkness
I actually really like this design, you can sort of see the flow of time in it, with the simpler earlier era being the smoother back, and the more advanced technological future aspect in the more angular and detailed front, its really cool, plus I like abstract character designs
My favourite thing about the origin forms of the trio is that when you overlay them it forms arceus’ silhouette, it really adds a lot of lore to the pokemon almost as if they’re struggling for control against each other
To me, both origin forms mostly read as "we don't wanna make that one cutscene twice depending on which of the 2 you get, so we'll make a form for both that's similar enough, as to where we can use the same animation for both.
Primal Dialga theme in the backround is PEAK!
who ate my 3 pronged thingamabob?
*dialga with a suspiciously 3 pronged thingamabob shaped neck*
If you look closely, you can also notice bits are chipped off, helping to seal the deal that it is incomplete and was interrupted
It also plays apon the statue in DP which looks like a mix between Diagla and Palkia where people think its one or the other. The Origin forms of both look way more similar which makes sense as to why people might confuse the two.
Finally someone who appreciates these designs for what they are
Is he gonna talk about how if you combine all three (Palkia, Dialga, and Giritina) you create Arceus.
We heard you like horses so we put more horse in your horse.
So in Pokemon universe, the closer you are to godliness / perfection, you became..a horse
Truly a hellish existence
I very much appreciate the awesome choice of music.
didn't even notice the throat thing looked like the hands of a clock.
The way i got a full body eargasm when Primal Dialga fight hits 🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶
fun fact: it has a special animation in Legends: Arceus when it uses Roar of Time that forms a full clock face around its ring
FINALLY, someone's else appreciates these's forms.
Something interesting I've noticed is that Palkia's forms complete eachother. Base Palkia is a knight, and his Origin form is a centaur. Horse and rider. Base Dialga is a dinosaur, and with the rough, rocky shapes of his Origin form, he's a meteor.
I haven't played the game it's from, but at a glance it definitely comes off to me as one of arceus's earliest creations; Almost like a prototype or a concept sketch, made before the design motifs of the universe were finalized. Something which, after it finished helping create all of reality, then molded itself into a more polished form better suited to exist in that reality.
There’s also the added benefit that it’s designed fits better with a diamond.
Something you didn’t quite get from the original form
Now we need original Arceus
_I wasn't expecting the mention of bullet vibes in one of these shorts._
im glad i chose the path in pla that lead to this being the origin forme legendary on top of mount coronet, it was such a dramatic reveal and love how alien the design is, but you can still see both aspects of arceus and base form dialga in it, and yet it’s so different from them. one of my favourite legendary designs because the design language behind it is just so compelling
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE how separately, the Creation Trio's Origin forms are very bizarre and abstract. Combined together, however... they effectively make Arceus. All of them embody these twisted, not-quite-there imitations of the avatar through which Arceus presents itself, which in and of itself is Arceus' own 'altered' forme of sorts.
Really gives a sense of scale to Arceus' true strength and significance, where its creations are trying to maximise their own power by copying... a weaker *avatar* of their creator.
I like how the Origin Forms of Dialga and Palkia seem to have gained a lot more respect from the community over time, with them being mocked relentlessly when they were first revealed.
To be fair, that tends to happen with every batch of new Pokemon. A lot of "The previous generation was better" when they did the exact same back with that one.
Origin Forme Dialga is the first time I've ever liked looking at Dialga.
"Over a decade since its original" god, the fact that gen 4 is closer to 2 decades old now is legitimately terrifying as someone who started with it as a kid
Also kinda looks like a FF7 Weapon
It does a great job at invoking the mythical feeling like the first time seeing unown
Turning around the 3D model you can clearly see a tiny “cotton ball” tail, and based on how it moves and attacks resembles a Hare. Which has me puzzled as to how the Origin Formes compliment each other, being a Hare for Dialga, a Horse for Palkia, and a Serpent for Giratina
It’s a really hit or miss design with most people. I didn’t like it on Palkia, but was indifferent on Dialga, but they grew on me with time. Especially when someone took specific pieces from the creation trio to create Arceus’s body, which gave this a stroke of genius.
being ten years removed from giritna's origin form, i was surprised with how cohesive the three of them looked side by side
Have in mind that Palkia not having hands and Dialga having that thing in the throat is referencing the moves. You need hands to (spacial) rend and you need your voice to roar (of time). The moves also become stronger in the origin forms. This makes me think that this restriction was put by some higher force (Probably Arceus) to stop them from destroying time and space
I love the design resembling Arceus in it's more unrestrained form, makes them feel so more connected.
On another note, I'd love to see you review Diancie's design.
Somehow I knew a comment saying this form was weaker in some way would be at the top despite the games telling you in every way possible it’s the opposite
In Dialga’s case the source of its power is now closer to its mouth and grown far larger. It’s grown so powerful that it no longer needs a roar to control/warp time, but a whisper.
As for Palkia it never lost its arms, they simply became its forelegs. Its pearls have completely overtaken where its shoulders used to be and vastly increased its control over space. Each step it takes sends ripples through space, and Arceus save you if it starts running.