Watching this in 2024. It's impressive how Outer Wilds just came out of nowhere and not only became one of the best adventure games but for many people one of the best games in general.
It is pretty interesting looking at this video 4 years later. As someone who doesn't really play adventure games I haven't really heard anything about any of those "Most Hyped" games, but all of your games (maybe with the exception of Dropsy, like I said, I'm an outsider to the genre) have made a huge splash and accessed wider appeal.
...Aaand all the games with interesting mechanics became huge media sensations. The top adventure game list also did pretty decently, but it shows how much people are willing to acknowledge an innovation on the genre, as opposed to a pure spiritual successor.
I recently played through Dropsy and I would really like to hear your opinion on it now. Personally, I found it to be incredibly uplifting and heartwarming. There are so few games that are just focused on spreading kindness.
1. I really love Broken Age 2. I really love Firewatch 3. I thoroughly enjoyed Night in the Woods 4. I like The Witness 5. Man...I really love Papers Please 6. Obra Dinn looks AWESOME.
Funny how these games turned out to be some of the most discussed and celebrated games of their time, and nobody remembers the games mentioned on that website.
i didn't notice that about oxenfree, but i did notice the timer mechanic that times out before the character finishes speaking to you and how it makes you say nothing instead of defaulting to one of the dialog options when you don't make a selection. kinda echoed my own experiences of being really quiet and socially anxious where i get so wrapped up in listening and fully internalizing every word being said around or to me that the moment for me to say something kinda just slips by
Commenting from the future to say that the Oxenfree walk and talk dialogue system might be the definitive solution to the issue of how to put dialogue in dialogue-heavy video games without breaking the flow.
These mini documentaries have too much work put into them to only have 10,000. Ian you are making beautiful content, please never give up a reasonable opinion for views.
I really like the idea behind Return of the Obra Dinn. I also don't want to check out the beta though because I don't want to risk spoilers, but it's something that sounds like it'll be really interesting when finished.
Another cool new adventure game is Gorogoa. It has an interesting tile mechanic and puzzles centered around visual logic that haven't really been done in adventure games before.
Loved coming to this 8 years late and seeing how it all shook out while hearing your speculation of a time yet to come. Probably the closest I will come to feeling like a time traveler 😁
I had literally no idea half of these games were being made. Thanks, I needed a video like this. A bit of optimism. This video is kinda telling me something I already knew, but forget alot of the time. I should be thankful for what we have and learn to read in between the lines of certain games and find the good in it's uniqueness.
Oh man, the last few years were really nice for the genre. Life is Strange, the Sherlock games, Oxenfree and many more are pretty awesome in their own ways :-)
Hey I think there's a couple of things worth mentioning in the Dropsy section, the most notable is Lone Survivor (2012). It did the whole real world / nightmare world thing. Admittedly it was probably referencing other games as well, but there is a history to be explored there. Secondly, Dropsy being able to hug everyone is the extension of using body language as a method to interact with the narrative. I'm not sure if it is only expressive in Dropsy or if it also has an effect on the world or options to the player, but there are other games which have also done this. I don't want to toot my own horn, but just for reference we allowed the player to draw their gun at any point in Westerado. At literally every point in the conversation, you can draw, cock and holster your gun. The gun has both an expressive effect, an effect on dialogue trees as well as outside of conversation based on ai reactions (although we definitely weren't the first game to allow you to holster your gun and have ai react to different gun "states", I saw recently that Deus Ex had some similar range of expression and reaction from ai). I feel like other games have also limited expression to icons, but off the top of my head I can only think of Machinarium and Samorost, but those weren't trees, nor did they allow any form of agency. Mechanically the only thing I can think of something similar is Tribal and Error (made by students from the college I graduated from), in which you build up a dictionary of iconography that you can use to express yourself and solve puzzles. It creates a mechanical adventure-puzzle-solving space similar to what Jonathan Blow is doing with the Witness, where you need to understand the context of the situation, and express it through the mechanic. Just some thoughts and references to fit into the history!
Active dialog was handled really uniquely by Heavy Rain in 2010 before. The dialog choices float around your head as 3D prompts and move faster/slower depending on your emotional state. In certain scenes you retain full control and can inspect the environment while the screen is split in 2 windows so you can keep seeing the response to your dialogue choices while interacting elsewhere.
Back again 8 years later. Killer Frequency just made an amazing adventure game out of BEING the person on the radio that everyone in the middle of the action is calling for help. An incredible twist on the genre that allowed for the first Horror Adventure Game since the OG Walking Dead to get me to outright panic with the weight of some decisions but also rewarded exploration and attention to detail. Also, straight up, a hell of a story.
How about Professor Layton? Why is it that, when discussing adventure games, it never seems to be brought up? Why is it usually considered more as strictly a puzzle game? The only explanation I really see is that the puzzles are separated from the explorative elements, but based on your definition (from the first episode), the Layton series, along with the also well-known Phoenix Wright, could be considered as successful puzzle games from their "dead" era.
Kc Clark Maybe he doesn't own a DS? Some folks have defined that ace attorney is more technically...a visual novel? I'm not sure about that. But I agree that they're great! Dave Gilbert from Wadjet Eye talks quite a bit about how the Phoenix Wright games inspired him. They're what got me hooked on adventure games in the first place.
There's a lot of willful ignorance of Japanese games among "serious" game critics that pretty much has to come from a refusal to acknowledge their existence.
13:16 I couldn't agree with this more. I am a going to college for game design, so make a point to play a lot of games with interesting mechanics and ideas. Not all of these games are what you would call "good" and my friends often say "why do you like bad games?" I don't usually seek out and play bad games, (though there is purpose as a designer for doing this also) but rather I seek out interesting game design.
Shame none of Kentucky Route Zero's mechanics got in here, one of the most noticeable is controlling multiple character's dialogue options, when that first happened it really broke open my mind for a sec. Also really like the camera zooms as framing to hide and reveal narrative information during dialogues. And the amount of pure expression and drawing your attention to it is great: poetic passwords and choose your verse musical performances being the highlight. -- As a side-note a lot of people have been playing Her Story and I feel like something must be going on there, although I haven't played it yet.
Her Story, mechanically, is the player accessing clips of a woman's testimony (spanning several days) by searching for keywords. The game gives you some clips to start out with, and as you watch the testimony, you listen for keywords to search for that will get you more information. There's no walking around or exploring, only the computer interface, but it is a puzzle that tells a story, so while **I** wouldn't call it an adventure game based on my own nebulous definition, it does meet the criteria posed by this series. I highly recommend it; the story is a bit flimsy on its own IMO, but the presentation makes it well worth your time to figure out.
Disco Elysium solved the issue of a lack of a strong voice for a narrator in video games by making your skills the narrator. That you can have a different narrative experience depending on your skills makes it more gamey in a amazing way
I feel like Adventure games would really benefit from giving a the player a set of tools and mechanics that stay consistent through out the experience, which is why Ghost Trick was the only adventure game I ever enjoyed playing.
I discovered Infra! few years ago from a TH-cam video. It's an amazing game, I was having so much fun and one day it hit me: it's an adventure game! It's non conventional, you can die (but you recover in a close save), and there are few action scenes, but the story is so deep and well told by the environment, that it's still my most played game in steam. I can't recommend it enough
Oxenfree was amazing, Night in the Woods was even MORE amazing, and Firewatch was pretty alright. I'm excited for the Return of the Obra Dinn. Annnnd... Uh... The Witness was something. The mechanic was interesting at least.
I remember this DS game called Elebits. It was pretty much a point and click game only instead of items, you collected little monsters with specific abilities to complete the puzzles with.
the audio logs in HZD were so good tho. the logs were either voice mail, recorded messages, or blogs/diary entries that were from people who lived/worked in the area you found it. And they'd almost always be found in ruins or at least near ruins.
i can't believe all these amazing adventure games were all in development at the same time--i didn't realize back then how much great shit was coming out.
God damn I'm so stoked about Firewatch. Something about that game seems so... I don't know, natural? The conversations and voice acting just feel so right compared to the dialogue in most games. Not to mention the art is simply gorgeous.
OH MAN, THE LIONHEART DRIVE SHOUT-OUT! I backed that game, I don't believe it's ever gonna arrive. It had a period of time where it became a light ARG, with some audio and text-based end-points.
The problem I have with altering the dialogue tree, is that in an Adventure game, speech is so essential to the experience. In Action games, it's quite easy to have a satisfying experience and skip the chatter. But when a game like The Walking Dead, adds a timer, it doesn't really make the game better. Because now I'm forced to quickly pick some option with almost no thought, instead of acknowledging the scenario and trying to create the story I desire. So when you imply it's better when the world keeps moving even when people aren't talking, as an Adventure gamer, that takes away from my experience.
That raises the question of experience verse immersion. If a game cannot bring you into the world or universe presented to you by the game itself, then it is not immersive. This is the reason why the timer is a necessity in The Walking Dead - the game is asking you to be these characters in a realistic community with characters and conversations you can relate to. The timer directly relates to conversation in the real world, where you the protagonist in you're own story often times can say something you didn't mean to or didn't want to (or perhaps didn't say anything at all when you could've) which in turn immerses you in your own experience. This is evident by the fact that by the game allowing you the choice to not speak gives you freedoms which are only attainable in real world circumstances. The reason this works in The Walking Dead is because they present to you a world you have no control over... (Cont'd)
... Whether you like it or not, in The Walking Deads universe and context - just like our own - their are other stories, and other narratives that continue as the clocks tick. In the world The Walking Dead has presented you, the freedom of limitation they present you is immersion into the universe they want to show you. The reason this doesn't work in most other adventure games is because they provide a world tailored around the individual protagonist. Every other character is just their to service the player in one fashion or another - to progress the main characters narrative. The lack of a timer is perfectly fine in this style of game because of the world the game shows you. When you stop progressing, the game stops progressing and in turn the world stops progressing - so it makes sense the dialogue would stop when you stop as well... (Cont'd)
...However, to state the difference between immersion and experience in these two styles of the adventure genre would be summed up as "are you the main character." In The Walkind Dead, the games universe provides me the tools to be whoever I want to be (in most cases people choose to reflect their own opinions onto the blank canvas of a character) therefore it is I that I the character. I am Lee, I am Clementine, and I am making the descisions. I project unto the character my own personality - I am immersed. However, in the other style of adventure game (we will use for example Sierra style adventure games like Kings Quest or Leisure Suit Larry) I am experiencing the life and story of this one character. I am offered no choice, and therefore the lack of a timer is a limitation in itself. This is clear when you think about how in life - your own experience; utmost immersion - you have the choice to remain silent. To remain silent in Leisure Suit Larry I can not progress the game... (Con
...This is not to say it's a bad thing, but rather I am trying to make the point that it could be vastly improved upon. If you like that style of game, and nothing else - then more power to ya. In the world of those games it makes sense, it is definitely a very enjoyable experience - but is it immersive? No. I feel my solution to this is to have the timer, like in The Walking Dead, but for you the protagonist to be able to see the effects of your choice, and being able to change your decision to best tailor the story you want to make. That provides both options, and in no way restricts the player from both immersing themselves in AND experiencing the story. I feel the best representation of this solution would be the Moon in Majoras Mask. It takes away nothing, and adds a new layer of depth to everything you do - time management. This, in theory, should enhance aspects other that just the story, experience, and immersion like gameplay, atmosphere, and engagement. Those are my thoughts
I also expect adventure games will mix with other game genres (and to some extent that may even already be the case), and I think (part of) the future of adventure games lies with hybridisation with other genres. -Something like the portal mechanic from the portal games could be used in a more open world setting which can combine have an inventory and finding the right items to be used in a particular situation with platforming and using your portal gun to get to places (with possibly platforming and making it a bit of a puzzle to find out how to get to a place) -Games like Tomb Raider which already have a lot of exploration, and even at times things where you need to use clues from items/lore you found, and combining that with adventure game mechanics of finding the right items to use in the right spots would work pretty well -shooters nowadays already tend to include more and more story, and adventure games are very much about the story, so what if you add adventure elements to shooters, either as part of necessary progression, or as a way one can get around combat if they manage to figure out the right item to use in the right situation (and using the wrong item could potentially get you into a sticky situation, which could help the trial-and-error problem) -RPG's already share a lot of commonality with adventure games and incorporating even more adventure aspects shouldn't be too difficult either All of that said, even though I'd love innovation and hybridisation of the genre, I do think that even with little evolution, adventure games have a right to exist because they're just a really good way to tell stories, and there are plenty of stories that can be told.
I can't speak specifically to all the sequels; but, at least for my part, the excitement about Dreamfall Chapters was less nostalgia than it was "GET ME OFF THIS DAMN CLIFF I'VE BEEN HANGING FROM FOR EIGHT YEARS!!" *ahem*
I think "The Fall" was one of my biggest and unexpected positive surprises of a fresh take on the adventure game, even including how clever the item puzzles were at some turns and then so strangely obtuse in other moments :D If you're into adventure games and haven't played it you should definitely at least check out the trailer on TH-cam (th-cam.com/video/Had8FT9ilc4/w-d-xo.html) And no, it's NOT an action game, but that was part of the surprise for me!
The greatest thing of humanity.. people can have a spark of unique creativity simply by watching something someone made. People talk about having children and passing your knowledge on to them, but we can also do that (in a "higher meaning" sense if simply procreating doesn't interest you).. BY DOING SOMETHING! it might be bad and mediocre, it might not be famour or become popular or generate millions.. but to the few people that get to enjoy your creation, it might be the little push that was needed in order to move towards that great thing thousands will enjoy!! Not everything or everyone is useless in life.. and not many see it that way. Even hate can lead to something good.
Hello! Due to the fact that there is virtually no dialog and it's Weird™, you might not like it, but if you're interested in more "Dreams as example of silent protagonist's inner-workings" like in Dropsy, the game Yume Nikki (lit. "Dream Diary") pretty much entirely consists of that. I will admit, "wordless surrealist-horror exploration game with mild mental illness themes as garnish" is not everyone's cup of tea, but I think you'll appreciate a lot of the execution and the treatment of the player character as something for the player to project onto in a non-power-fantasy way. (.i.e this is "up to your interpretation but here's some stuff to build off of and meditate on": the game. good for thinkers, bad for readers, I guess.) Also, I love this video. I love all your videos now. I love YOU.
Very nice thoughts, and shout outs to games I hadn't heard of (other then Dropsy and Obduction which I backed). It astounds me how much is still being done with this genre, even when it was declared dead there were games coming out all the time - many of them good, and more then most people could play - but they were sticking tightly to formula. They were (almost) always a bit more exciting when trying something new; hybrids like Hero's Quest/for Glory, or bringing back the golden touch of the parser in Leisure Suit Larry 7, Spells in King's Quest 3 or even King's Quest 5 getting rid of the parser was exciting (at the time), even though I don't like how it set the standard that adventure games mostly stuck to thereafter. Three verbs, for me, are too limiting, and now it's often less - though many intelligent designers have found ways to still make it a challenge, my favorite games are still those with an intelligent parser (mainly 1989 - yeah crumudgeonly fuddy duddy me). Though I get that will never be main stream again, I want something of it to come back ala LSL7. But who knows how much is left to be tried for this beloved, long tolerated genre? We should do what we can to applaude new ideas, even when they don't make a good game but especially when they do. Speaking of which, still got to try out the new King's Quest.
Firewatch is definitely one of my favorite games, and I heard about it here first. (Also heard about it from Danskin's Twitter and my hero, CaseyExplosion.)
The walkie talkie is indeed clever, but the rest of it - I don't care at all (save for the Mac-looking game). I think what adventure games need are better stories, better writing. A revolution just like we had in TV, where all of the sudden shows like Breaking Bad and GOT started to come up.
Play firewatch, I bought and played the game for the visuals and mechanics, but the thing I liked the most at the end was the story and character dynamics. Seriously, for being a game that you can beat in a couple hours, it's really impactful and deep
+Skrapion It is way different, because the other character is not right next to you looking at the same thing, the protagonist has to literally spell out all the information they can so the person on the other side (who is completely blind to the situation) can know what you're looking at. In terms of the hint system that the second character could provide, yeah it's not that different, but story-wise it frames the info boxes that protagonist spit out everytime you look at something in a more logical, non-fourth wall breaking way.
The only one that I didn’t immediately recognise watching this video for the first time today was Dropsy, so maybe that says something about the success of the experiments?
I grew up on adventure games and I do agree that they were stagnant - almost non-existent - for a long time. I'm really happy that new indie developers are playing with the formula and seeing what could work and doesn't work. I like the idea of the walkie-talkie for example. You're right that it does eliminate "look" while also still allowing the character (and supporting characters) to inform the world and give you hits. That's a great idea. But I hope future developers don't just use a walkie-talkie every time and try implementing other ideas. Personally, my favourite adventure games in recent years have come from Wadjet Eye Games. Especially the Blackwell series. They don't try breaking the mold as far as the genre goes, but I think they do some interesting things. The notebook mechanic is my personal favourite, where you need to put together clues to figure out mysteries and move onto the next step. It's not a perfect system, which designer Dave Gilbert will even admit, but I think it adds something to the game. It also has a great character switching mechanic between the main character and Joey, her ghost sidekick/partner.
You gave me an idea. Standard adventure game, but during every conversation the protagonist imagines a room from a 2D platformer with different exits while the conversation carries on. Some exits are harder to get to (especially given the time limit) and the NPC might reveal some information that makes different routes change difficulty. For example... you've caught someone stealing, so the "forgive" door is way behind a ton of spikes and enemies... but then they plead that they need to feed their kids, so it becomes harder to shout for the police and if you're halfway to forgiving them then some of the enemies disappear. I mean, that's a really basic example, but you could have entire conversations with multiple outcomes and the hardest door to get to might not even be what you want to ask - it could even go so far as to be an analogy for why some people act like assholes... it's just an easier route for them. I doubt anyone will see this comment on a 4 year old video, but you never know. I'm no developer but I might try to learn and make a concept for itch or something so someone talented can pick up the ball. I mean, it could be a terrible idea... but I'm like 90% certain it's not been done yet.
In respect to the Obra Dinn reference, it's interesting to see that Tacoma is doing a similar sort of thing (although with more captured time), and that the team behind it made Gone Home, a game heavily influenced by trying to create a logical audio diary system that wouldn't have to be centralised. Tacoma also allows you to explore the space with and between the recorded characters, but instead of using a magical realist explanation it uses a sci-fi one: Tracking and recording of all events on the space station for historical record. Why isn't it centralized? It is, but it's much easier to interpret in the location rather than reading out transcriptions. Also: Limitations of the technology are easy to blame, transcribing voices, needing a text-based interface and how to write down dialogue that's spoken at the same time or actions that happen concurrently. An interesting parallel that's being developed by a group very firmly routed in the audio diary formula, but with a very similar solution.
Can't wait until Night In The Woods comes out. Backed it a while back because I really loved the art, atmosphere and especially the music. But in this case the story kinda spoke to me as well. Mirroring the strangeness of coming home from collage. Hometown being the same but everyone in it has changed. The feeling of not really knowing what to do next and kinda wanting things to be as they where when I left... As a 20something who never grow with Adventure Games, they kinda sound like a time-capsule in some ways. People who are into em speak fondly of those kinda of games, like looking back on a time in their life. Kinda feel like I will look back on NITW in the same way someday.
Does VA-11 HALL-A count as an adventure game? I'm not exactly sure, but it's one of the upcoming games I'm most interested in. Anyway, good video! I'll definitely have to keep some of those in mind.
It's interesting, I'd suggest that adventure games, despite the fact that they rely less on high fidelity graphics than most genres, are still highly reliant on technology if they're going to seriously evolve. You'd need massively complex AI to allow truly naturalistic dialogue, and massively complex world building to allow sophisticated interaction. That's not to say that there isn't plenty of room for innovation in the genre already, as this video demonstrates.
It wasn't out yet, he had no way of knowing how story-centred it was or was not going to be, he and most everyone else would have guessed it had a larger narrative to tell given by how the whole game is built upon a "mystery". For what it's worth I actually think The Witness has an interesting story to tell in concept, it just does it quite poorly, which wasn't as forseeable.
@@MrFadify Did people actually think mystery was part of The Witness? Nothing struck me like that, quite the opposite - it was presented as Myst but with puzzles and a lack of mystery!
I know this is hard to ask coming from someone like me to a guy like you, i feel like you can become one of the best TH-camrs of all time. And i just wish that you took the sacrifice of doing this full time and start self advertising and make a real job out of this thing.
this is why i like wadget eye's stuff the most of the current point and clicks. they arent trying to be spiritual successors to the clasics thew are being there own thing and style.
![Another Crab's Treasure [VERT] // Part 6 // #crab #soulslike #gaming](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/85AwxWc6w7A/mqdefault.jpg)
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Watching this in 2019 and knowing that Night in the Woods turned out to be phenomenal reinforces my optimism!
Return of the Obra Dinn is one of my favourite games ever
@Kingsley Orion 🙄🙄🙄
You can tell a game shook up the genre in a good way when people that have no interest in said genre sing that game's praises.
Watching this in 2024. It's impressive how Outer Wilds just came out of nowhere and not only became one of the best adventure games but for many people one of the best games in general.
It is pretty interesting looking at this video 4 years later. As someone who doesn't really play adventure games I haven't really heard anything about any of those "Most Hyped" games, but all of your games (maybe with the exception of Dropsy, like I said, I'm an outsider to the genre) have made a huge splash and accessed wider appeal.
It's satisfying watching this almost exactly five years later and all of these games are classics in their own way.
It’s so funny bc hardly anyone remembers any of the games on the list that IS said deflated him
...Aaand all the games with interesting mechanics became huge media sensations. The top adventure game list also did pretty decently, but it shows how much people are willing to acknowledge an innovation on the genre, as opposed to a pure spiritual successor.
Return of the Obra Dinn was certainly worth the wait!
I recently played through Dropsy and I would really like to hear your opinion on it now. Personally, I found it to be incredibly uplifting and heartwarming. There are so few games that are just focused on spreading kindness.
You're in luck: innuendostudios.tumblr.com/post/147116695312/thoughts-on-dropsy
1. I really love Broken Age
2. I really love Firewatch
3. I thoroughly enjoyed Night in the Woods
4. I like The Witness
5. Man...I really love Papers Please
6. Obra Dinn looks AWESOME.
Funny how these games turned out to be some of the most discussed and celebrated games of their time, and nobody remembers the games mentioned on that website.
Hoooo, boy, 2015 Inuendo Studios, you just wait, adventure games are about to go OFF.
i didn't notice that about oxenfree, but i did notice the timer mechanic that times out before the character finishes speaking to you and how it makes you say nothing instead of defaulting to one of the dialog options when you don't make a selection. kinda echoed my own experiences of being really quiet and socially anxious where i get so wrapped up in listening and fully internalizing every word being said around or to me that the moment for me to say something kinda just slips by
Commenting from the future to say that the Oxenfree walk and talk dialogue system might be the definitive solution to the issue of how to put dialogue in dialogue-heavy video games without breaking the flow.
These mini documentaries have too much work put into them to only have 10,000. Ian you are making beautiful content, please never give up a reasonable opinion for views.
I really like the idea behind Return of the Obra Dinn. I also don't want to check out the beta though because I don't want to risk spoilers, but it's something that sounds like it'll be really interesting when finished.
Another cool new adventure game is Gorogoa. It has an interesting tile mechanic and puzzles centered around visual logic that haven't really been done in adventure games before.
It's so amazing watching this now, knowing that all of these games made waves in the genre and were so great.
Just finished up this series and i gotta say, I enjoyed it more than I expected.
Given that all of these titles have now come out, it would be awesome to have a follow-up exploring how these games built on/push forward the genre.
Loved coming to this 8 years late and seeing how it all shook out while hearing your speculation of a time yet to come. Probably the closest I will come to feeling like a time traveler 😁
I had literally no idea half of these games were being made. Thanks, I needed a video like this. A bit of optimism. This video is kinda telling me something I already knew, but forget alot of the time. I should be thankful for what we have and learn to read in between the lines of certain games and find the good in it's uniqueness.
dude. you make adventure games sound cool and fun. I cant wait to see these games.
Next video: Who shot guybrush THREEpwood
ba dum tss...
+JaytleBee von Miraus Corner. Now.
fictionfan0
I'm sorry! Please, not the corner! ;A;
Oh man, the last few years were really nice for the genre. Life is Strange, the Sherlock games, Oxenfree and many more are pretty awesome in their own ways :-)
Hey I think there's a couple of things worth mentioning in the Dropsy section, the most notable is Lone Survivor (2012). It did the whole real world / nightmare world thing. Admittedly it was probably referencing other games as well, but there is a history to be explored there.
Secondly, Dropsy being able to hug everyone is the extension of using body language as a method to interact with the narrative. I'm not sure if it is only expressive in Dropsy or if it also has an effect on the world or options to the player, but there are other games which have also done this.
I don't want to toot my own horn, but just for reference we allowed the player to draw their gun at any point in Westerado. At literally every point in the conversation, you can draw, cock and holster your gun. The gun has both an expressive effect, an effect on dialogue trees as well as outside of conversation based on ai reactions (although we definitely weren't the first game to allow you to holster your gun and have ai react to different gun "states", I saw recently that Deus Ex had some similar range of expression and reaction from ai).
I feel like other games have also limited expression to icons, but off the top of my head I can only think of Machinarium and Samorost, but those weren't trees, nor did they allow any form of agency. Mechanically the only thing I can think of something similar is Tribal and Error (made by students from the college I graduated from), in which you build up a dictionary of iconography that you can use to express yourself and solve puzzles. It creates a mechanical adventure-puzzle-solving space similar to what Jonathan Blow is doing with the Witness, where you need to understand the context of the situation, and express it through the mechanic.
Just some thoughts and references to fit into the history!
Active dialog was handled really uniquely by Heavy Rain in 2010 before. The dialog choices float around your head as 3D prompts and move faster/slower depending on your emotional state. In certain scenes you retain full control and can inspect the environment while the screen is split in 2 windows so you can keep seeing the response to your dialogue choices while interacting elsewhere.
Back again 8 years later. Killer Frequency just made an amazing adventure game out of BEING the person on the radio that everyone in the middle of the action is calling for help. An incredible twist on the genre that allowed for the first Horror Adventure Game since the OG Walking Dead to get me to outright panic with the weight of some decisions but also rewarded exploration and attention to detail. Also, straight up, a hell of a story.
Would love to see a follow-up to this video, and hear what your thoughts are on these mechanics now 7 years in the future
This was such a delightful video. Thank you so much! And thanks for adding a list of the games referenced in the info box. : )
"You're not wrong, you're just less right."
That's absolute gold.
And what the fuck, Dropsy clearly IS a caricature, caricature of something that is not usually a game protagonist. THIS IS GOOD.
I just realized that the way Firewatch is treating the walkie talkie is the EXACT way Agent Cooper treats the walkie talkie in Twin Peaks.
How about Professor Layton? Why is it that, when discussing adventure games, it never seems to be brought up? Why is it usually considered more as strictly a puzzle game?
The only explanation I really see is that the puzzles are separated from the explorative elements, but based on your definition (from the first episode), the Layton series, along with the also well-known Phoenix Wright, could be considered as successful puzzle games from their "dead" era.
Kc Clark Maybe he doesn't own a DS? Some folks have defined that ace attorney is more technically...a visual novel? I'm not sure about that.
But I agree that they're great! Dave Gilbert from Wadjet Eye talks quite a bit about how the Phoenix Wright games inspired him. They're what got me hooked on adventure games in the first place.
There's a lot of willful ignorance of Japanese games among "serious" game critics that pretty much has to come from a refusal to acknowledge their existence.
13:16 I couldn't agree with this more. I am a going to college for game design, so make a point to play a lot of games with interesting mechanics and ideas. Not all of these games are what you would call "good" and my friends often say "why do you like bad games?" I don't usually seek out and play bad games, (though there is purpose as a designer for doing this also) but rather I seek out interesting game design.
Shame none of Kentucky Route Zero's mechanics got in here, one of the most noticeable is controlling multiple character's dialogue options, when that first happened it really broke open my mind for a sec.
Also really like the camera zooms as framing to hide and reveal narrative information during dialogues.
And the amount of pure expression and drawing your attention to it is great: poetic passwords and choose your verse musical performances being the highlight.
--
As a side-note a lot of people have been playing Her Story and I feel like something must be going on there, although I haven't played it yet.
Her Story, mechanically, is the player accessing clips of a woman's testimony (spanning several days) by searching for keywords. The game gives you some clips to start out with, and as you watch the testimony, you listen for keywords to search for that will get you more information. There's no walking around or exploring, only the computer interface, but it is a puzzle that tells a story, so while **I** wouldn't call it an adventure game based on my own nebulous definition, it does meet the criteria posed by this series. I highly recommend it; the story is a bit flimsy on its own IMO, but the presentation makes it well worth your time to figure out.
Isn't the memento mortis basically Ghost Trick?
Disco Elysium solved the issue of a lack of a strong voice for a narrator in video games by making your skills the narrator. That you can have a different narrative experience depending on your skills makes it more gamey in a amazing way
This video should have blown up. I'm only 5 minutes in and it's already the most interesting one I've watched in months!
AAAAAA Obra Dinn turned out so good!!!!
Extremely good forsight. I love adventure games so much. Hope to see a lot more interesting experiments.
I feel like Adventure games would really benefit from giving a the player a set of tools and mechanics that stay consistent through out the experience, which is why Ghost Trick was the only adventure game I ever enjoyed playing.
I discovered Infra! few years ago from a TH-cam video.
It's an amazing game, I was having so much fun and one day it hit me: it's an adventure game!
It's non conventional, you can die (but you recover in a close save), and there are few action scenes, but the story is so deep and well told by the environment, that it's still my most played game in steam.
I can't recommend it enough
Oxenfree was amazing, Night in the Woods was even MORE amazing, and Firewatch was pretty alright. I'm excited for the Return of the Obra Dinn.
Annnnd... Uh... The Witness was something. The mechanic was interesting at least.
did someone say queer cyberpunk? can i get a link?
Game is "Read Only Memories" he left a link in the description
+Theguyacrossthetable TGATT thanks! i thought it might be in there, but idk which it was
There are titles in the bottom right of the screen during each of those clips.
I remember this DS game called Elebits. It was pretty much a point and click game only instead of items, you collected little monsters with specific abilities to complete the puzzles with.
the audio logs in HZD were so good tho. the logs were either voice mail, recorded messages, or blogs/diary entries that were from people who lived/worked in the area you found it. And they'd almost always be found in ruins or at least near ruins.
Wow, coming from the future, pretty much all of these games were widely praised (only one I haven't heard of is Dropsy).
i can't believe all these amazing adventure games were all in development at the same time--i didn't realize back then how much great shit was coming out.
God damn I'm so stoked about Firewatch. Something about that game seems so... I don't know, natural? The conversations and voice acting just feel so right compared to the dialogue in most games. Not to mention the art is simply gorgeous.
I wish all modern game releases, within reason, had adventure game elements.
Hotel Dusk Rm. 215 and its sequel are also fantastic adventure games.
Didn't Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy have a timed dialogue system? Came out a decade before The Walking Dead.
yes that game did have timed dialogue
OH MAN, THE LIONHEART DRIVE SHOUT-OUT!
I backed that game, I don't believe it's ever gonna arrive.
It had a period of time where it became a light ARG, with some audio and text-based end-points.
It's interesting how many of the games you've mentioned here turned out to be great games.
Watching this in the future, he really did hedge his bets but man did he hit everything on the head
Fantastic video
I was born in the 2000's so i haven't played much old adventure games, but the ones that come out today are some of my favorite games.
I'd like to see another one of these, now that the games are out.
The problem I have with altering the dialogue tree, is that in an Adventure game, speech is so essential to the experience. In Action games, it's quite easy to have a satisfying experience and skip the chatter. But when a game like The Walking Dead, adds a timer, it doesn't really make the game better. Because now I'm forced to quickly pick some option with almost no thought, instead of acknowledging the scenario and trying to create the story I desire. So when you imply it's better when the world keeps moving even when people aren't talking, as an Adventure gamer, that takes away from my experience.
That raises the question of experience verse immersion. If a game cannot bring you into the world or universe presented to you by the game itself, then it is not immersive. This is the reason why the timer is a necessity in The Walking Dead - the game is asking you to be these characters in a realistic community with characters and conversations you can relate to. The timer directly relates to conversation in the real world, where you the protagonist in you're own story often times can say something you didn't mean to or didn't want to (or perhaps didn't say anything at all when you could've) which in turn immerses you in your own experience. This is evident by the fact that by the game allowing you the choice to not speak gives you freedoms which are only attainable in real world circumstances. The reason this works in The Walking Dead is because they present to you a world you have no control over... (Cont'd)
... Whether you like it or not, in The Walking Deads universe and context - just like our own - their are other stories, and other narratives that continue as the clocks tick. In the world The Walking Dead has presented you, the freedom of limitation they present you is immersion into the universe they want to show you.
The reason this doesn't work in most other adventure games is because they provide a world tailored around the individual protagonist. Every other character is just their to service the player in one fashion or another - to progress the main characters narrative. The lack of a timer is perfectly fine in this style of game because of the world the game shows you. When you stop progressing, the game stops progressing and in turn the world stops progressing - so it makes sense the dialogue would stop when you stop as well... (Cont'd)
...However, to state the difference between immersion and experience in these two styles of the adventure genre would be summed up as "are you the main character." In The Walkind Dead, the games universe provides me the tools to be whoever I want to be (in most cases people choose to reflect their own opinions onto the blank canvas of a character) therefore it is I that I the character. I am Lee, I am Clementine, and I am making the descisions. I project unto the character my own personality - I am immersed. However, in the other style of adventure game (we will use for example Sierra style adventure games like Kings Quest or Leisure Suit Larry) I am experiencing the life and story of this one character. I am offered no choice, and therefore the lack of a timer is a limitation in itself. This is clear when you think about how in life - your own experience; utmost immersion - you have the choice to remain silent. To remain silent in Leisure Suit Larry I can not progress the game... (Con
...This is not to say it's a bad thing, but rather I am trying to make the point that it could be vastly improved upon. If you like that style of game, and nothing else - then more power to ya. In the world of those games it makes sense, it is definitely a very enjoyable experience - but is it immersive? No.
I feel my solution to this is to have the timer, like in The Walking Dead, but for you the protagonist to be able to see the effects of your choice, and being able to change your decision to best tailor the story you want to make. That provides both options, and in no way restricts the player from both immersing themselves in AND experiencing the story. I feel the best representation of this solution would be the Moon in Majoras Mask. It takes away nothing, and adds a new layer of depth to everything you do - time management. This, in theory, should enhance aspects other that just the story, experience, and immersion like gameplay, atmosphere, and engagement. Those are my thoughts
Omg, if you haven't played Obra Din, go do it right now! It's pretty short, but I loved it!
I also expect adventure games will mix with other game genres (and to some extent that may even already be the case), and I think (part of) the future of adventure games lies with hybridisation with other genres.
-Something like the portal mechanic from the portal games could be used in a more open world setting which can combine have an inventory and finding the right items to be used in a particular situation with platforming and using your portal gun to get to places (with possibly platforming and making it a bit of a puzzle to find out how to get to a place)
-Games like Tomb Raider which already have a lot of exploration, and even at times things where you need to use clues from items/lore you found, and combining that with adventure game mechanics of finding the right items to use in the right spots would work pretty well
-shooters nowadays already tend to include more and more story, and adventure games are very much about the story, so what if you add adventure elements to shooters, either as part of necessary progression, or as a way one can get around combat if they manage to figure out the right item to use in the right situation (and using the wrong item could potentially get you into a sticky situation, which could help the trial-and-error problem)
-RPG's already share a lot of commonality with adventure games and incorporating even more adventure aspects shouldn't be too difficult either
All of that said, even though I'd love innovation and hybridisation of the genre, I do think that even with little evolution, adventure games have a right to exist because they're just a really good way to tell stories, and there are plenty of stories that can be told.
I can't speak specifically to all the sequels; but, at least for my part, the excitement about Dreamfall Chapters was less nostalgia than it was "GET ME OFF THIS DAMN CLIFF I'VE BEEN HANGING FROM FOR EIGHT YEARS!!" *ahem*
I think "The Fall" was one of my biggest and unexpected positive surprises of a fresh take on the adventure game, even including how clever the item puzzles were at some turns and then so strangely obtuse in other moments :D
If you're into adventure games and haven't played it you should definitely at least check out the trailer on TH-cam (th-cam.com/video/Had8FT9ilc4/w-d-xo.html)
And no, it's NOT an action game, but that was part of the surprise for me!
The greatest thing of humanity.. people can have a spark of unique creativity simply by watching something someone made. People talk about having children and passing your knowledge on to them, but we can also do that (in a "higher meaning" sense if simply procreating doesn't interest you).. BY DOING SOMETHING! it might be bad and mediocre, it might not be famour or become popular or generate millions.. but to the few people that get to enjoy your creation, it might be the little push that was needed in order to move towards that great thing thousands will enjoy!!
Not everything or everyone is useless in life.. and not many see it that way. Even hate can lead to something good.
Lmao I’m very glad everyone watching this vid in the future loves how each of these games became hits and classics to the genre
Hello! Due to the fact that there is virtually no dialog and it's Weird™, you might not like it, but if you're interested in more "Dreams as example of silent protagonist's inner-workings" like in Dropsy, the game Yume Nikki (lit. "Dream Diary") pretty much entirely consists of that. I will admit, "wordless surrealist-horror exploration game with mild mental illness themes as garnish" is not everyone's cup of tea, but I think you'll appreciate a lot of the execution and the treatment of the player character as something for the player to project onto in a non-power-fantasy way. (.i.e this is "up to your interpretation but here's some stuff to build off of and meditate on": the game. good for thinkers, bad for readers, I guess.) Also, I love this video. I love all your videos now. I love YOU.
10:54 dude, i'm working on it.
Very nice thoughts, and shout outs to games I hadn't heard of (other then Dropsy and Obduction which I backed). It astounds me how much is still being done with this genre, even when it was declared dead there were games coming out all the time - many of them good, and more then most people could play - but they were sticking tightly to formula. They were (almost) always a bit more exciting when trying something new; hybrids like Hero's Quest/for Glory, or bringing back the golden touch of the parser in Leisure Suit Larry 7, Spells in King's Quest 3 or even King's Quest 5 getting rid of the parser was exciting (at the time), even though I don't like how it set the standard that adventure games mostly stuck to thereafter.
Three verbs, for me, are too limiting, and now it's often less - though many intelligent designers have found ways to still make it a challenge, my favorite games are still those with an intelligent parser (mainly 1989 - yeah crumudgeonly fuddy duddy me). Though I get that will never be main stream again, I want something of it to come back ala LSL7.
But who knows how much is left to be tried for this beloved, long tolerated genre? We should do what we can to applaude new ideas, even when they don't make a good game but especially when they do.
Speaking of which, still got to try out the new King's Quest.
At 6:42, that hypercard game - *what is that*? I have vivid memories of something like that from school, but been unable to find it.
Haven't played Dropsy, but it's very nice to see all the other games were awesome
14:30 - 14:35 *Seizures warning!*
Firewatch is definitely one of my favorite games, and I heard about it here first. (Also heard about it from Danskin's Twitter and my hero, CaseyExplosion.)
Firewatch also has the mechanics of being able to move and do other stuff during the dialog.
The walkie talkie is indeed clever, but the rest of it - I don't care at all (save for the Mac-looking game). I think what adventure games need are better stories, better writing. A revolution just like we had in TV, where all of the sudden shows like Breaking Bad and GOT started to come up.
Play firewatch, I bought and played the game for the visuals and mechanics, but the thing I liked the most at the end was the story and character dynamics. Seriously, for being a game that you can beat in a couple hours, it's really impactful and deep
The walkie talkie mechanic isn't terribly different from adventure games with side kicks, like Sam and Max.
+Skrapion It is way different, because the other character is not right next to you looking at the same thing, the protagonist has to literally spell out all the information they can so the person on the other side (who is completely blind to the situation) can know what you're looking at.
In terms of the hint system that the second character could provide, yeah it's not that different, but story-wise it frames the info boxes that protagonist spit out everytime you look at something in a more logical, non-fourth wall breaking way.
Hm... Return of the Obra Dinn uses mechanic that is super similar to Cryostasis. And events of Cryostasis also takes place on a ship.
+Gua Except in Cryostasis, you could actively participate and change the past, while in Obra Dinn, it LOOKS like you can just observe.
The only one that I didn’t immediately recognise watching this video for the first time today was Dropsy, so maybe that says something about the success of the experiments?
you were right
and from the future, I like all 5 of these games and 4/5 are games I love and would rank among my favorites.
Can anyone tell me what the game is at 4:40
When around 5/6 of these became modern classics, we’re happy with what adventure games have become
I grew up on adventure games and I do agree that they were stagnant - almost non-existent - for a long time. I'm really happy that new indie developers are playing with the formula and seeing what could work and doesn't work.
I like the idea of the walkie-talkie for example. You're right that it does eliminate "look" while also still allowing the character (and supporting characters) to inform the world and give you hits. That's a great idea. But I hope future developers don't just use a walkie-talkie every time and try implementing other ideas.
Personally, my favourite adventure games in recent years have come from Wadjet Eye Games. Especially the Blackwell series. They don't try breaking the mold as far as the genre goes, but I think they do some interesting things. The notebook mechanic is my personal favourite, where you need to put together clues to figure out mysteries and move onto the next step. It's not a perfect system, which designer Dave Gilbert will even admit, but I think it adds something to the game. It also has a great character switching mechanic between the main character and Joey, her ghost sidekick/partner.
my favorite new adventure game mechanic of recent memory is the voices in head skill system of disco elysium!
You gave me an idea. Standard adventure game, but during every conversation the protagonist imagines a room from a 2D platformer with different exits while the conversation carries on.
Some exits are harder to get to (especially given the time limit) and the NPC might reveal some information that makes different routes change difficulty.
For example... you've caught someone stealing, so the "forgive" door is way behind a ton of spikes and enemies... but then they plead that they need to feed their kids, so it becomes harder to shout for the police and if you're halfway to forgiving them then some of the enemies disappear.
I mean, that's a really basic example, but you could have entire conversations with multiple outcomes and the hardest door to get to might not even be what you want to ask - it could even go so far as to be an analogy for why some people act like assholes... it's just an easier route for them.
I doubt anyone will see this comment on a 4 year old video, but you never know. I'm no developer but I might try to learn and make a concept for itch or something so someone talented can pick up the ball. I mean, it could be a terrible idea... but I'm like 90% certain it's not been done yet.
+1 for GameSpeak. It's beyond my understanding why this is not a staple of action games.
Night in the woods and Read Only Memories have demos available if your interested in them.
Almost all of these games turned out amazing
In respect to the Obra Dinn reference, it's interesting to see that Tacoma is doing a similar sort of thing (although with more captured time), and that the team behind it made Gone Home, a game heavily influenced by trying to create a logical audio diary system that wouldn't have to be centralised.
Tacoma also allows you to explore the space with and between the recorded characters, but instead of using a magical realist explanation it uses a sci-fi one: Tracking and recording of all events on the space station for historical record. Why isn't it centralized? It is, but it's much easier to interpret in the location rather than reading out transcriptions. Also: Limitations of the technology are easy to blame, transcribing voices, needing a text-based interface and how to write down dialogue that's spoken at the same time or actions that happen concurrently.
An interesting parallel that's being developed by a group very firmly routed in the audio diary formula, but with a very similar solution.
Can't wait until Night In The Woods comes out. Backed it a while back because I really loved the art, atmosphere and especially the music. But in this case the story kinda spoke to me as well. Mirroring the strangeness of coming home from collage. Hometown being the same but everyone in it has changed. The feeling of not really knowing what to do next and kinda wanting things to be as they where when I left... As a 20something who never grow with Adventure Games, they kinda sound like a time-capsule in some ways. People who are into em speak fondly of those kinda of games, like looking back on a time in their life. Kinda feel like I will look back on NITW in the same way someday.
Does VA-11 HALL-A count as an adventure game? I'm not exactly sure, but it's one of the upcoming games I'm most interested in.
Anyway, good video! I'll definitely have to keep some of those in mind.
7:09 oh crap, it’s like Ghost Trick
It's interesting, I'd suggest that adventure games, despite the fact that they rely less on high fidelity graphics than most genres, are still highly reliant on technology if they're going to seriously evolve. You'd need massively complex AI to allow truly naturalistic dialogue, and massively complex world building to allow sophisticated interaction. That's not to say that there isn't plenty of room for innovation in the genre already, as this video demonstrates.
Did he just call The Witness a "story-centered" game? Haha, good one.
It wasn't out yet, he had no way of knowing how story-centred it was or was not going to be, he and most everyone else would have guessed it had a larger narrative to tell given by how the whole game is built upon a "mystery". For what it's worth I actually think The Witness has an interesting story to tell in concept, it just does it quite poorly, which wasn't as forseeable.
@@MrFadify Did people actually think mystery was part of The Witness? Nothing struck me like that, quite the opposite - it was presented as Myst but with puzzles and a lack of mystery!
The Witness turned out to be a really good puzzle game but a somewhat disappointing adventure game
i wouldn't say that firewatch's walkie talkie is a mechanic as much as it's a narrative device
Hahha! I usually talk to myself when alone. I suppose it's because I buried my childhood in LucasFilm™ Graphic Adventures.
The walkie-talkie mechanic was in "The Dig".
The puzzle panel was in "Myst".
I know this is hard to ask coming from someone like me to a guy like you, i feel like you can become one of the best TH-camrs of all time. And i just wish that you took the sacrifice of doing this full time and start self advertising and make a real job out of this thing.
This video was great I wish more people could see it.
Just a question, when he was talking about Dropsy, what does it look like? ("im crossing my fingers it isnt what it looks like")
cant wait for part 3 lol
this is why i like wadget eye's stuff the most of the current point and clicks. they arent trying to be spiritual successors to the clasics thew are being there own thing and style.
only ever played humongous entertainment adventure games
+linkviii Pajama Sam and Spy Fox were my GAMES
SAME. yet I'm still excited to play Firewatch.