You can tell, and it is pleasing, when an academic really really is into their field. No time wasted talking about anything than the topic at hand and with constant enthusiasm.
And it's not the empty enthusiasm of loud voices or flashy images either. It's real passion that comes across as a delightful and driving dynamism between the two. Just Excellent.
Great stuff,as always. Read Pausanias if you want to know how greeks of the roman period felt about their past . He takes you by the hand and shows you what was left at the end of 2nd.century. Sad sometimes and nostalgique but very relatable for the modern reader.
Oh this is great. In my final year of bachelors of Classics, one of my professors gave us a task to come up with potential classes that could be taken if the degree was restructured. The goal of the assignment was to move away from the traditional 'Athenian Golden Age,' 'Age of Augustus,' and 'Alexander the Great.' One that I was actually thinking about was Roman Greece. I never followed up on researching it, but I think this might be a great introduction for me.
Here’s the title of her book: Graecia Capta. Dr, Ryan you should have posted it somewhere. Not everyone can translate Latin by ear to correct text, we’re in a tiny minority.
Was there a Greek settler movement after Roman conquest of the Greek peninsula? Did Greeks emigrate to non-Roman Byzantium and Black Sea colonies? Was Greece drained if funds and intellect by emigrants moving to Greej communities from Trabzon to Odessa to Biblos ... ? Did Anatolia receive many new Greek settlers after Romans conquered Greece?
My impression from the latest archaeogenetic studies in Greece is that the Slavic invasions, with one exception, did not leave a genetic fingerprint in the Greek population. The exception is a small population in the Peloponnesian population around Mt. Taygetos, they do have a measurable Slavic genetic component. The father north one looks from Greece (modern boundary) in the Balkan Peninsula, the stronger the Slavic and Bulgarian genetic signatures become. I found this interesting because my father’s family originated in this area, Kalamata, specifically. Our patronymic is Italian, I wouldn’t be surprised if we had significant Italian ancestry, too, from much later invasions by men from the coastal Italian cities like Venice. From the Mycenean Cretans to the modern day, the population genetics have remained fairly consistent, especially considering how many groups have moved through Greece in history, it was principal the bridge between Asia Minor and Western Europe since the Paleolithic (the Lower Danube Valley was another). The earliest (Neolithic) farmers entered Europe through Greece from the Fertile Crescent via the Levant and Asia Minor. Being Greek, I’m interested in every phase of Greek history and archaeology. Thank you for interviewing such a great guest!❤
As Dr Alcock alluded to, archeogenetics have made a huge difference in understanding the changing landscape. I am not an expert but I believe several recent papers have addressed this topic, genetic continuity and difference in Greece.
Correct me if Im wrong, by you both missuse the word "Greece": Asia Minor was actually "Greece" during this period, whereas I have the feeling that you use the word Greece to refer to Greece proper within a near by Greek World, which was actually "Greece" already for many centuries. Ephesus was a Greek colony since the 10th BC and part of "Greece" eversince.
I hope I can get her book on Audible, it’s so hard to find good history and archaeology books on it. But I love to listen instead of read a paper book, I get a sore arm from 55 years of flipping pages.
Rats, I can’t even find an English language version printed version of her book on Amazon! I’ll try my county public library, but don’t feel optimistic, it’s very weak on history.
The Romans incorporated all the great civilizations of the past (Greeks, Etruscans, Egyptians, Phoenicians, etc.), spreading them throughout Europe and subsequently throughout Western civilization
Please talk about Greeks in the East, modern day Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Western India & Central Asia. After collapse of the Greco Bactrian & Indo Greek kingdoms what happened to the Greek culture, people, language in that area?
Didn't Greece had the last laugh though? WHen the West part fall, the East part pretty much took over with strong Greek culture with Roman identity, till the very end. Even today, I think the legacy of Byzantium/East Roman/Roman stays strong with Greece
Greece was always interesting to me because they were powerful in the Bronze age and inspirational in the classical period, and massively successful under Alexander, but then fell under Roman rule and then under the Ottomans up until modern times where they remain a poor whipping boy for the European Union led by the Germans.
I admire the intellect that is capable of digging through mountains of minute details and disconnected information to document the history of man. I don’t have that kind of intellect, but I do enjoy listening to those who do. Sometimes though I wish those beautiful minds had taken a few more speech classes you know.
What about the disporia of educated Greek slaves, as the Caesars seemed to have them working in high positions, and making lots of money and influence while doing so. What proportion of Greeks were sold into Roman slavery? Was there a brain drain from Greece?
What is the time frame for Roman Greece? Of course it starts with the Roman conquest, but how far out is Roman Greece being considered? All the way through 1453?
Not fully, Roman rule was interrupted by Saracen rule in some places(such as Crete, Cyprus and many islands), Slavic rule during the 7th-8th century and of course after the fourth Crusade most of Greece came under the rule of Venetian, Genovan and Frankish rule for many centuries(Macedonia and Epirus also suffered Serbian or Bulgarian rule at that time). Most places of Greece actually remained as such even during the Ottoman years, knowing only Western colonial rule and never or at least much less years of Ottoman rule. Crete, Cyprus, the Saronic islands, the Cyclades and most especially the Ionian islands are perfect examples of them.
@@thebenevolentsun6575 If you think about it, it's kind of impressive that Greece was controlled by two empires (Roman/Byzantine, plus Ottoman) for nearly the entire 2000-year period between 146 BCE and 1821 CE. (There were 60 years of crusader rule in the 13th century, but other than that, it was just those two empires).
You can tell, and it is pleasing, when an academic really really is into their field. No time wasted talking about anything than the topic at hand and with constant enthusiasm.
And it's not the empty enthusiasm of loud voices or flashy images either. It's real passion that comes across as a delightful and driving dynamism between the two. Just Excellent.
God, this was awesome. I’m so looking forward to reading her book.
Greetings from Arabia Magna, fellow citizens!
Excellent! So inspiring and educational. Is extraordinary how little we have scratched the surface of ancient history.
Super fascinating conversation, and this lady surely holds the world record for the number of "you know"s per minute ;)
Great stuff,as always. Read Pausanias if you want to know how greeks of the roman period felt about their past . He takes you by the hand and shows you what was left at the end of 2nd.century. Sad sometimes and nostalgique but very relatable for the modern reader.
And really interesting topic, great talk, thank-you both. I have often wondered about this topic.
Oh this is great. In my final year of bachelors of Classics, one of my professors gave us a task to come up with potential classes that could be taken if the degree was restructured.
The goal of the assignment was to move away from the traditional 'Athenian Golden Age,' 'Age of Augustus,' and 'Alexander the Great.'
One that I was actually thinking about was Roman Greece. I never followed up on researching it, but I think this might be a great introduction for me.
Damn, that was both fascinating *and* entertaining! And talk about sharply contrasting personalities working well together 😄
Talk to geneticist Razib Khan if you want the ancient DNA overview. 👍
Yes, he is very good.
One of the most enthusiastic guests on the podcast so far.
Sue, you fcuking killed it.
Here’s the title of her book: Graecia Capta. Dr, Ryan you should have posted it somewhere. Not everyone can translate Latin by ear to correct text, we’re in a tiny minority.
I thought dr Ryan released is vids at one 1.5x or 2x speed, no he just talks that fast.
I loved this one! Miss alcock was very charming. I'd love to hear more of her
Was there a Greek settler movement after Roman conquest of the Greek peninsula? Did Greeks emigrate to non-Roman Byzantium and Black Sea colonies? Was Greece drained if funds and intellect by emigrants moving to Greej communities from Trabzon to Odessa to Biblos ... ? Did Anatolia receive many new Greek settlers after Romans conquered Greece?
Yay 48 mins of ancient goodness ❤
My impression from the latest archaeogenetic studies in Greece is that the Slavic invasions, with one exception, did not leave a genetic fingerprint in the Greek population. The exception is a small population in the Peloponnesian population around Mt. Taygetos, they do have a measurable Slavic genetic component. The father north one looks from Greece (modern boundary) in the Balkan Peninsula, the stronger the Slavic and Bulgarian genetic signatures become. I found this interesting because my father’s family originated in this area, Kalamata, specifically. Our patronymic is Italian, I wouldn’t be surprised if we had significant Italian ancestry, too, from much later invasions by men from the coastal Italian cities like Venice. From the Mycenean Cretans to the modern day, the population genetics have remained fairly consistent, especially considering how many groups have moved through Greece in history, it was principal the bridge between Asia Minor and Western Europe since the Paleolithic (the Lower Danube Valley was another). The earliest (Neolithic) farmers entered Europe through Greece from the Fertile Crescent via the Levant and Asia Minor. Being Greek, I’m interested in every phase of Greek history and archaeology. Thank you for interviewing such a great guest!❤
Fascinating discussion - thank you both.
As Dr Alcock alluded to, archeogenetics have made a huge difference in understanding the changing landscape. I am not an expert but I believe several recent papers have addressed this topic, genetic continuity and difference in Greece.
Correct me if Im wrong, by you both missuse the word "Greece": Asia Minor was actually "Greece" during this period, whereas I have the feeling that you use the word Greece to refer to Greece proper within a near by Greek World, which was actually "Greece" already for many centuries. Ephesus was a Greek colony since the 10th BC and part of "Greece" eversince.
The Greeks weren't perfect either: just read Thucydides' "The History of the Peloponnesian War". There are some grim atrocities.
So happy to see someone so into their field and her enthusiasm is infectious. Great listen!
I hope I can get her book on Audible, it’s so hard to find good history and archaeology books on it. But I love to listen instead of read a paper book, I get a sore arm from 55 years of flipping pages.
Rats, I can’t even find an English language version printed version of her book on Amazon! I’ll try my county public library, but don’t feel optimistic, it’s very weak on history.
The Romans incorporated all the great civilizations of the past (Greeks, Etruscans, Egyptians, Phoenicians, etc.), spreading them throughout Europe and subsequently throughout Western civilization
Please talk about Greeks in the East, modern day Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Western India & Central Asia.
After collapse of the Greco Bactrian & Indo Greek kingdoms what happened to the Greek culture, people, language in that area?
Didn't Greece had the last laugh though? WHen the West part fall, the East part pretty much took over with strong Greek culture with Roman identity, till the very end. Even today, I think the legacy of Byzantium/East Roman/Roman stays strong with Greece
Greece was always interesting to me because they were powerful in the Bronze age and inspirational in the classical period, and massively successful under Alexander, but then fell under Roman rule and then under the Ottomans up until modern times where they remain a poor whipping boy for the European Union led by the Germans.
I admire the intellect that is capable of digging through mountains of minute details and disconnected information to document the history of man. I don’t have that kind of intellect, but I do enjoy listening to those who do.
Sometimes though I wish those beautiful minds had taken a few more speech classes you know.
It'd be fun to hang out with these two!
1:24 - I thought that was an iPhone sound at first
What happened to ancient Troy?
Great interview!
Drink every time they say: You know >
You can really hear Dr. Alcock's enthusiasm for her work through the podcast audio. Great guest!
How does the professor define "Roman Greece"? Because from what I got is that she only talked about the roman province of Achaea.
What about the disporia of educated Greek slaves, as the Caesars seemed to have them working in high positions, and making lots of money and influence while doing so. What proportion of Greeks were sold into Roman slavery? Was there a brain drain from Greece?
Love the podcast
Great episode! My alma matter (Florida State) even got a bit of a mention. Go Noles!
What is the time frame for Roman Greece? Of course it starts with the Roman conquest, but how far out is Roman Greece being considered? All the way through 1453?
Not fully, Roman rule was interrupted by Saracen rule in some places(such as Crete, Cyprus and many islands), Slavic rule during the 7th-8th century and of course after the fourth Crusade most of Greece came under the rule of Venetian, Genovan and Frankish rule for many centuries(Macedonia and Epirus also suffered Serbian or Bulgarian rule at that time). Most places of Greece actually remained as such even during the Ottoman years, knowing only Western colonial rule and never or at least much less years of Ottoman rule. Crete, Cyprus, the Saronic islands, the Cyclades and most especially the Ionian islands are perfect examples of them.
Rome owned Greece until the 19th century?
Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) fell in 1453 by the Ottoman Empire which took over Greece until the Greek War of Independence 1821.
"was in imperial systems" includes the Ottoman empire.
@@thebenevolentsun6575 If you think about it, it's kind of impressive that Greece was controlled by two empires (Roman/Byzantine, plus Ottoman) for nearly the entire 2000-year period between 146 BCE and 1821 CE.
(There were 60 years of crusader rule in the 13th century, but other than that, it was just those two empires).
Don't forget Philip II and Alexander the Great@@Unknown-jt1jo
@@luciosergiocatilina1they were ancient Greeks
This is so refreshing. Thank you for this !!!