I have some bad news for you. The election of 1800 was not this cordial. President John Adams, incumbent Federalist maverick president, was called a "hideous hermaphroditical character with neither the firmness of a man nor the kindness or sensibility of a woman" by Jefferson in a democratic-republican paper. I believe that Adams responded by telling a federalist paper that Jefferson had died or was a french traitor. Adams won only Massachusetts, and didnt forgive Jefferson until Abagail Adams died. The election was tied between Jefferson and Aaron Burr, it went to the house for election to break the tie, and Hamilton wrote to the house "Jefferson has genuine love for this country. Burr loves only himself." Jefferson won.
Jokes on you, Hamilton once threatened to physically fight the entirety of the Democratic-Republican party and Jefferson regularly payed people to talk trash about Hamilton in the newspaper
Hammy is a litttttllleee too old, but does resemble what I image he'd look like if he made it to his 55th or so year (depending on if you circa Hammy at 1755 or 1757). Jefferson, however, is on the money.
Walter King Please. Hamilton was a tyrant who would have had us become a conquering empire. Ironically, that’s what we are anyway. In his politics, I will always side with Jefferson. I’ll never agree with his view on slavery, but at least he abolished the international slave trade in his presidency. He cut off the tap and helped to set the stage to end slavery in the United States. What did Hamilton do? Take part in a duel, like the warmongering dumbass he was.
@@biosonic100 how did we not become a conquering empire. Have have never gone ten years without war and conquest whether it be manifest destiny or our impoverished 'territories'
Personally, as a national conservative, I hate his influence. But I suppose I understand your opinion. I’m Canadian, if anything my government is even more of a puppeteer
Wow! At 11:58 he blatantly describes what has eventually happened. People leaving their farms to go work for someone else in the city... and then, eventually becoming dependent on government.
What is wrong with people leaving the farms to go to major cities where there is a better opportunity of Life there. They don't have to become dependent on the government
@@attiepollard7847 they do however become more dependant on goods produced by others. In a city you might not have any room to grow vegetables or herbs or have any livestock. So you need to purchase it. Which requires businesses to specialize and mass produce. Which further removes the humanity from consumption. Look at how we mass produce dairy and meat. In factories. By large scale faceless agricultural corporations. That was largely Jefferson's point. He hated cities in general and much preferred agricultural rural settings. Someone in an agricultural setting is much more in control and has much more control over his life and sustenance. If you have open land you can plant for your sustenance. Or raise some livestock. And what you dont have, you can buy or trade for with another farmer down the road. If need be you would need as little money as possible to survive, because your land can produce for you. Remember, this is the late 1700s. You don't have uncle Sam telling you how to build a house or what you can put there. You could build your own house yourself. And your tools largely. And then use them to care for your sustenance. Vs being in a city, where you are beholden to money because you need money to buy your sustenance, and so in turn you are beholden to the "stockjobber" and the central authority etc
@@FlameG102 because we demand it more that's why we mass production. That's just evolution right there we can't always do the farming that we used to do like in the 1800s to the late 1900s.
@@attiepollard7847 oh I'm not saying otherwise. i get how things turned out, just explaining the mentality, a lot of which can still apply today, in principle if not 100% in practice. Everyone should, to the best of their ability, try to be less dependent on external factors for their survival, as we saw with the pandemic and how key items quickly disappeared from shelves. Things like yeast. or bread. (to say nothing of flour, or toiletpaper) I haven't bought a loaf of bread practically since the pandemic started. because I make my own now. Hell, i know a friend who even planted his own wheat in his back yard. granted that same modern life and evolution doesnt always allow one to do these things. That friend works from home since the pandemic started. So he can. But it's the principle of the thing that i think still counts
I wonder how close Jefferson and Hamilton act like in real life as they are in this sketch. For example, I know Hamilton is about 14 years younger than Jefferson. Hamilton is portrayed as the more vigorous one.
I think that's pretty accurate, Hamilton was upfront and had a proclivity for going to far at times; he much benefitted from having a mentor like Washington temper his radicalism. Jefferson meanwhile was a model "Southern gentleman", acting as polite as he possible could help it (though behind the scenes as shrewd and calculated as any Machiavellian politician could be).
I find myself in agreement with Mr Jefferson. His idea of country of nothing but simple farmers has great appeal. The land is the thing that ties a family together generations of blood, sweat, tears, and prayers poured into the soil over generations, is a powerful thing. I think that's part of what is sorely missing in our society today, a thing that ties the generations together, from father to son to grandson, and on down the line.
@@sheaamalloy not everyone in the colonies had slaves you know. The wealthy, had slaves. Not everyone was wealthy. Owning a slave was the equivalent of buying fancy new farm machines that automate all your tasks. Aka not cheap, and not so common among lower and middling farmers and townsfolk. Farming is not an institution that only existed with slavery
@@FlameG102 do you understand the fact that ANYBODY "owned" another human being is horrific. And the fact that they equated a human life to be the same as a piece of farm equipment is ungodly.
Indeed. The pervasive historical illiteracy around these two, with the Right gravitating toward Jefferson and the Left gravitating toward Hamilton nowadays, is pretty astounding when you know how they were understood in their own time.
The incredible complexities of both men’s ideologies have no words to describe it. These men were geniuses, while I lean more toward Jefferson’s view as a whole, Hamilton makes great points, and I simply won’t discount them because of a rivalry between these two men.
They eventually became enemies. However personal their animus became, there was still a residue of (for want of a better term) mutual respect. In the 1800 presidential election Hamilton put his personal animosity to Jefferson aside and urged voters to support Jefferson over the other main candidate, Aaron Burr. Hamilton saw Burr as an unscrupulous opportunist. I'm paraphrasing here, but I recall Hamilton at that time said something like, "Although Mr. Jefferson's principles are completely antithetical to my own, at least he has principles."
Jefferson believed the American Revolution was about ending nobility and creating democracy. Hamilton believed the American Revolution was about creating American sovereignty and self determination.
Jeffersons ideas come off as overly utopian. Hamiltons stance is realistic, but in the long term won't succeed if the common man doesn't share the values that Jefferson believe are inherent to every person. Jefferson was an optimist with essentially no plan. IE: the less government that exists the better. In reality, government HAS to exist, as Hamilton posits, but it won't succeed unless people behave, on a individual level, like Jefferson assumes they will. This is the true crux of the debate. Jefferson wants to abolish establishment and, in my opinion, wrongfully assumes everything will work its way out. Hamilton understands governmental institutions have to exist for a country to flourish, but is taking a gamble on hoping the average citizen is better than they are. Ultimately, the common man decides the fate of a nation, regardless of whom you agree with in this debate.
We have now the strong Central Govt. that Hamilton wanted but look where we are at . Jefferson was correct on more issues . Govts. are made of people . That's something that Hamilton never thought of . The same people in Govt. now that are the wealthy and powerful lauding over the common man and enriching themselves .
And Jefferson was very inspired too by the writings of John Locke. This is why debate, freedom of thoughts and civilized discourse is so important to preserve.
Thomas Jefferson was a man of contraditions. He introduced a bill to end slavery, in 1779…………………………….www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Thomas-Jefferson-Bill-to-End-Slavery
@@robinsss Except of course the slaves he was raping. And his view was to free the slaves then deport them back to Africa. Hamilton was a true abolitionists, who believed in a multi ethnic society.
The only reason we have States is because we started off with Colonies. We were stuck with that as the new nation was born. Making that fit into a national structure always has, and always will, be a work in progress.
Am I the only one that had to do a mental double take on Hamiltons "confederate currency" comment, wondering WTF he was talking about 4 score and 7 yrs too early? Till I remembered articles of confederation was a confederacy and not federation.
The Declaration of Independence clearly states that the US will be "Free and INDEPENDENT STATES".... Hamilton changed that with the Federalism format....
I am amused by people in the comments cheering on the idea of Jefferson's mostly agrarian populace by doing so on devices and systems that would never have been invented, built, marketed, or distributed under such a system.
Jefferson is the idealist spirit of the Revolution, Hamilton is the pragmatist nation-state builder. Hamilton and the banks won and the American people made a deal with Mephistopheles. The most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth with over 10% of citizens below the poverty line and about half own property
You can hardly blame Hamilton for that. It wasn't Hamiltons ideals that allowed robber barons and plutocrats to usurp the intentions of state. It was the Weakness of the government that allowed men of means to usurp it and only then empower it to carry out their will under the guise of the law.
Jefferson and Hamilton HATED each other. They would NEVER sit down together and alone. They would have needed another person to moderate any debate...someone like Washington.
@@thonatim5321 How you know they never sad down together? That is the question! Sure they didn't like each other, but politics is a different animal, And Jefferson was a smart politician!!!
The Federalists, led by Secretary of Treasury Alexander Hamilton, wanted a strong central government, while the Anti-Federalists, led by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, advocated states' rights instead of centralized power.
I really think weve gone too far down the Hamiltonian path and have failed to stay balanced. If you want to advocate more for state rights youll actually hear people say stuff like "youre racist and want slavery to come back" which is bonkers af.
A little frustrating. The Jefferson impersonator seems to be speaking as an idealized Jefferson and Ian Rose is directly quoting Hamilton's words and really channelling him. Then again, as a debater, the Jefferson in this is pretending to agree with everything and restating points as something completely different to exaggerate disagreement. This is one of the most aggravating things to deal with as a debater, I'm a lil surprised Rose/Hamilton didn't lose his cool. It also may be an intentional character trait added to the actor's Jefferson. Good debate overall, though. They both have great ideas and also some horrible faults.
Jefferson was a good man, but Hamilton was far more intelligent, consistent, and practical in both his political and economic philosophy. Isolationists tend to favor Jefferson, while Imperialists would favor Hamilton.
It is a little more complicated than that. Hamilton was a nationalist while Jefferson was an internationalist. Jefferson would have loved the idea of a League of Nations or a United Nations just like FDR. Why use force and intimidation when you can sit at a table and talk to negotiate. He would have seen conquest and war to be incompatible with a republican form of gov’t. He wouldn’t have approved of a republic attacking another republic. In fact he would have condemned it. You have to understand that imperialism is rooted in nationalism ie “America first” idea.
Frankly Jefferson's economic ideas became outdated during the Gilded Age, when the U.S. transitioned from an agrarian culture to an industrial one. Jefferson was worried about the government exploiting the people, but he didn't foresee a future where industrial corporations became powerful enough to oppress their laborers. Perhaps Jeffersonian notions of self-reliance will become in vogue again some time in the future but that seems far off. Hamilton on the other hand correctly predicted the US's future as a financial and industrial power.
@@briansheehan3430 Hamilton's visions of corporatism and a central bank has destroyed our country. He was a nationalist and that vision has led to ruin.
Ironically, I know that both the First and Second Chartered National Bank of the United States were burned to the ground because of shady business practices. Yet, the Federal Reserve, a private bank, has not been burned to the ground, despite it's shady practices, because of a quorum in 1913 which unlawfully ceded monetary control of the government to that bank. At the same time, federal taxes have sustained that bank, all the while that bank, being the Federal Reserve, has inflated our money to the point it is nearly worthless. One dollar in 1913 is now, a century later, worth only 4¢ or less. It is a travesty to any rational sensibility that such a theft of money from everyone, rich or poor, should not go unaudited or unpunished. The Federal Reserve deservedly needs to be abolished, and sound monetary policy restored to America by the House of Representatives in Congress, as the federal Constitution demands. Congress, not the Federal Reserve, sets the value of our money -- not the Federal Reserve using interest rates to control inflation. Yet for over 100 years, the Federal Reserve has done exactly what Tom Jefferson feared: Stolen the economic freedom of America's people via financiers and monocrats who think they know better than ordinary citizens how to execute sound financial policy. Because of this arrogance on the part of the financiers, and the apathy of the people, the people are nearly enslaved to the debt of previous generations.
People don't debate like this anymore. Nowadays it's one person keeping their composure and presenting facts while the other person has a tantrum and screams "BIGOT!!!" Once they start name-calling you during a debate, you've won the argument.
I'm in agreement with Hamilton that local governments will have inherent bias and that the common man should never have a direct vote over the leader of all united states.
this is wrong.. (state).. similar to the meaning state of the nation.. are we at war.. if so.. there are laws within the bill of rights which asjust slightly.. 📜🇺🇸
So the one is a Democrat that says people are stupid can't think for themselves so they need smarter people who are us who buy golly won't be driven by our own ambitions and ambivalence and greed and desires for power no no the federal government would never have any of those kind of considerations over the other person who's saying no we can all be educated to a point to where we can make good decisions about government but that just means that you're gonna lose your power base and so the other guy basically goes into well you need to be canceled mode. Huh very interesting I think that I've found the underlying poison of the Democratic Party and it's progressive nonsense today we use the people are not capable of making good decisions you must have a government what a bunch of Crap. If Hamilton had died in a duel a lot earlier I think America would have been better off
@@leomate8301 that's a stunning argument you have their first an ad hominem attack and then they were right no matter what. I would say that your post-modernism Kool-Aid must taste very good
@@leomate8301 you might have a better discussion with yourself you can call yourself names all day long but I'm not in the habit of continuing conversations with people that just call me names have a nice day
The Visionary (Jefferson) vs. The Pragmatist (Hamilton)
It is a rare actor who can make such language feel completely spontaneous and heartfelt. Here are two of them. Kudos.
How refreshing it is to listen to an intelligent debate of ideas. No name calling for made up facts.
I have some bad news for you. The election of 1800 was not this cordial. President John Adams, incumbent Federalist maverick president, was called a "hideous hermaphroditical character with neither the firmness of a man nor the kindness or sensibility of a woman" by Jefferson in a democratic-republican paper. I believe that Adams responded by telling a federalist paper that Jefferson had died or was a french traitor. Adams won only Massachusetts, and didnt forgive Jefferson until Abagail Adams died.
The election was tied between Jefferson and Aaron Burr, it went to the house for election to break the tie, and Hamilton wrote to the house "Jefferson has genuine love for this country. Burr loves only himself." Jefferson won.
@@shaneturner500 you gave me an answer to a question. Thxs
Nobody calling nobody a fascists, a commie cuck or whateva!
Jokes on you, Hamilton once threatened to physically fight the entirety of the Democratic-Republican party and Jefferson regularly payed people to talk trash about Hamilton in the newspaper
That, sir or madam, is rather well said
They're facial expressions are actually killing me😂😂 i love this more than i should
I met the one playing Jefferson at Monticello, and he was outstanding
Jefferson should be standard study by all citizens.
As should Hamilton.
readsomebooks666 true we need to tknow what not to do also
Make sure to include the part where Jefferson kept a sex slave her entire life.
As should Madison, Hamilton, Washington, and the rest of the founding fathers.
@@keitht24 Jefferson actually died some 8 years or so before Sally Hemings.
Oh how Jefferson would be turning over in his grave if he saw our national debt today.
In fairness, he'd also be pretty upset women could vote so... I wouldn't worry too much much about it.
These actors' resemblance to the characters is uncanny!
Hammy is a litttttllleee too old, but does resemble what I image he'd look like if he made it to his 55th or so year (depending on if you circa Hammy at 1755 or 1757). Jefferson, however, is on the money.
Jefferson takes the words right out of my mouth.
Walter King Please. Hamilton was a tyrant who would have had us become a conquering empire. Ironically, that’s what we are anyway. In his politics, I will always side with Jefferson. I’ll never agree with his view on slavery, but at least he abolished the international slave trade in his presidency. He cut off the tap and helped to set the stage to end slavery in the United States. What did Hamilton do? Take part in a duel, like the warmongering dumbass he was.
@@biosonic100 how did we not become a conquering empire. Have have never gone ten years without war and conquest whether it be manifest destiny or our impoverished 'territories'
@Walter King
You sir need to read about both men before making assumptions.
@Walter King Master of the Mountain is false
@@biosonic100 Hamilton created our economic system. Jefferson admired the French Revolution which got rid of a king, but wound up with an emperor.
Thomas Jefferson was our most important President and the greatest American that ever lived. God Bless Thomas Jefferson.
Personally, as a national conservative, I hate his influence. But I suppose I understand your opinion.
I’m Canadian, if anything my government is even more of a puppeteer
Wow! At 11:58 he blatantly describes what has eventually happened. People leaving their farms to go work for someone else in the city... and then, eventually becoming dependent on government.
What is wrong with people leaving the farms to go to major cities where there is a better opportunity of Life there. They don't have to become dependent on the government
@@attiepollard7847 they do however become more dependant on goods produced by others. In a city you might not have any room to grow vegetables or herbs or have any livestock. So you need to purchase it. Which requires businesses to specialize and mass produce. Which further removes the humanity from consumption.
Look at how we mass produce dairy and meat. In factories. By large scale faceless agricultural corporations.
That was largely Jefferson's point. He hated cities in general and much preferred agricultural rural settings. Someone in an agricultural setting is much more in control and has much more control over his life and sustenance. If you have open land you can plant for your sustenance. Or raise some livestock. And what you dont have, you can buy or trade for with another farmer down the road. If need be you would need as little money as possible to survive, because your land can produce for you. Remember, this is the late 1700s. You don't have uncle Sam telling you how to build a house or what you can put there. You could build your own house yourself. And your tools largely. And then use them to care for your sustenance.
Vs being in a city, where you are beholden to money because you need money to buy your sustenance, and so in turn you are beholden to the "stockjobber" and the central authority etc
@@FlameG102 because we demand it more that's why we mass production. That's just evolution right there we can't always do the farming that we used to do like in the 1800s to the late 1900s.
@@attiepollard7847 oh I'm not saying otherwise. i get how things turned out, just explaining the mentality, a lot of which can still apply today, in principle if not 100% in practice. Everyone should, to the best of their ability, try to be less dependent on external factors for their survival, as we saw with the pandemic and how key items quickly disappeared from shelves. Things like yeast. or bread. (to say nothing of flour, or toiletpaper) I haven't bought a loaf of bread practically since the pandemic started. because I make my own now.
Hell, i know a friend who even planted his own wheat in his back yard.
granted that same modern life and evolution doesnt always allow one to do these things. That friend works from home since the pandemic started. So he can. But it's the principle of the thing that i think still counts
It's a good thing farmers don't have things like subsidiaries. Could you imagine if they had to depend on government?
I wonder how close Jefferson and Hamilton act like in real life as they are in this sketch.
For example, I know Hamilton is about 14 years younger than Jefferson. Hamilton is portrayed as the more vigorous one.
I think that's pretty accurate, Hamilton was upfront and had a proclivity for going to far at times; he much benefitted from having a mentor like Washington temper his radicalism. Jefferson meanwhile was a model "Southern gentleman", acting as polite as he possible could help it (though behind the scenes as shrewd and calculated as any Machiavellian politician could be).
THOMAS JEFFERSON THE 2 DOLLAR BILL GUY
Who is this actor who plays Hamilton? I've seen him in several other of these debates, he's so good at the personification of AH.
Ian Rose.
Within a modern context they are both right, and wrong, at Every. Single. Turn.
I love this.
Actually Jefferson is Right 100% of the time. The federal government Powers need to be devolved back to the states
The primary role of any legitimate government is to protect the rights of its citizens. It is not to control those God-Given rights.
That's absolutely right. Declaration of Independence is crystal clear about the same.
As a national conservative, I disagree slightly
Prodigious feats of memory by these two actors
My gosh classical Politics of America is quite good on conflict of ideas.
well they would duel so...
@@ednakelley814 maybe we should bring that back as well
@@ednakelley814No. Hamilton dueled with Aaron Burr. Jefferson’s VP.
@@metalrocker627 I know that. My comment did not mean that Jefferson and Hamilton dueled but rather "they" as in earlier American politicians.
@@ednakelley814 Be specific next time, okay?
I find myself in agreement with Mr Jefferson. His idea of country of nothing but simple farmers has great appeal. The land is the thing that ties a family together generations of blood, sweat, tears, and prayers poured into the soil over generations, is a powerful thing. I think that's part of what is sorely missing in our society today, a thing that ties the generations together, from father to son to grandson, and on down the line.
There is something pure about agrarian life.
we know who’s really doing the planting
@@sheaamalloy not everyone in the colonies had slaves you know. The wealthy, had slaves. Not everyone was wealthy. Owning a slave was the equivalent of buying fancy new farm machines that automate all your tasks.
Aka not cheap, and not so common among lower and middling farmers and townsfolk.
Farming is not an institution that only existed with slavery
If it was up to Jefferson, we all would be " gentleman farmers", negating the Industrial revolution.
@@FlameG102 do you understand the fact that ANYBODY "owned" another human being is horrific. And the fact that they equated a human life to be the same as a piece of farm equipment is ungodly.
centralization vs individuality debate is as old as time itself
Hamilton was a Burkean conservative, while Jefferson was a classical Enlightenment liberal. That's all there is too it.
Indeed. The pervasive historical illiteracy around these two, with the Right gravitating toward Jefferson and the Left gravitating toward Hamilton nowadays, is pretty astounding when you know how they were understood in their own time.
To claim Hamilton wasn’t influenced by the Enlightenment is absurd. He just drew different conclusions.
Every American should watch this
"the mighty little Madison" has me DECEASED 😭😭😭 though seriously, love this skit sm!!
The incredible complexities of both men’s ideologies have no words to describe it. These men were geniuses, while I lean more toward Jefferson’s view as a whole, Hamilton makes great points, and I simply won’t discount them because of a rivalry between these two men.
They eventually became enemies. However personal their animus became, there was still a residue of (for want of a better term) mutual respect.
In the 1800 presidential election Hamilton put his personal animosity to Jefferson aside and urged voters to support Jefferson over the other main candidate, Aaron Burr.
Hamilton saw Burr as an unscrupulous opportunist. I'm paraphrasing here, but I recall Hamilton at that time said something like, "Although Mr. Jefferson's principles are completely antithetical to my own, at least he has principles."
Jefferson believed the American Revolution was about ending nobility and creating democracy. Hamilton believed the American Revolution was about creating American sovereignty and self determination.
Hmmm I don't know how you see that.......... Hamilton wanted big government.......
@@whathahk Correct. Hamilton basically wanted his own American nobility
How does that go against what I said?
Not even interrupting each other.
They actually listened to each other!
very entertaining and enlightening!
Was this in the room where it happened?
I loved watching this
It was nice of Thomas Jefferson to resurrect himself for this debate!
Jeffersons ideas come off as overly utopian. Hamiltons stance is realistic, but in the long term won't succeed if the common man doesn't share the values that Jefferson believe are inherent to every person. Jefferson was an optimist with essentially no plan. IE: the less government that exists the better. In reality, government HAS to exist, as Hamilton posits, but it won't succeed unless people behave, on a individual level, like Jefferson assumes they will. This is the true crux of the debate. Jefferson wants to abolish establishment and, in my opinion, wrongfully assumes everything will work its way out. Hamilton understands governmental institutions have to exist for a country to flourish, but is taking a gamble on hoping the average citizen is better than they are. Ultimately, the common man decides the fate of a nation, regardless of whom you agree with in this debate.
We have now the strong Central Govt. that Hamilton wanted but look where we are at . Jefferson was correct on more issues . Govts. are made of people . That's something that Hamilton never thought of . The same people in Govt. now that are the wealthy and powerful lauding over the common man and enriching themselves .
Love these video's.
Thomas Jefferson is the oracle of American Democracy and whose ideals inspire the freedom fighters around the world.
And Jefferson was very inspired too by the writings of John Locke. This is why debate, freedom of thoughts and civilized discourse is so important to preserve.
he wanted to free the slaves but the south was against it
@@robinsss citation please
Thomas Jefferson was a man of contraditions. He introduced a bill to end slavery, in 1779…………………………….www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Thomas-Jefferson-Bill-to-End-Slavery
@@robinsss Except of course the slaves he was raping. And his view was to free the slaves then deport them back to Africa. Hamilton was a true abolitionists, who believed in a multi ethnic society.
Bruh when Hamilton said "I respectfully disagree" I felt that
@@leomate8301 Yeah, the Federalists we're truly what the Republic needed in a time of great strife.
The only reason we have States is because we started off with Colonies. We were stuck with that as the new nation was born. Making that fit into a national structure always has, and always will, be a work in progress.
Am I the only one that had to do a mental double take on Hamiltons "confederate currency" comment, wondering WTF he was talking about 4 score and 7 yrs too early? Till I remembered articles of confederation was a confederacy and not federation.
Had me for a second too before I thought about it and remembered
This is so cool. I wish people thought and spoke like this today.
Agree, we sure lost a lot from those days!
10:27 - sounds like what has explicitly happened
The Declaration of Independence clearly states that the US will be "Free and INDEPENDENT STATES".... Hamilton changed that with the Federalism format....
Met the man playing Jefferson at Monticello. It was erie looking at him.
What a civil argument nobody even had to say good day sir
How do I both agree with Jefferson and Hamilton?
Because they were both extremely intelligent and both their views balanced each other out, creating the USA we have today.
You agree with thoughts, not minds
I am amused by people in the comments cheering on the idea of Jefferson's mostly agrarian populace by doing so on devices and systems that would never have been invented, built, marketed, or distributed under such a system.
Nothing is wrong with agrarian society
Jefferson is the idealist spirit of the Revolution, Hamilton is the pragmatist nation-state builder. Hamilton and the banks won and the American people made a deal with Mephistopheles. The most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth with over 10% of citizens below the poverty line and about half own property
You can hardly blame Hamilton for that. It wasn't Hamiltons ideals that allowed robber barons and plutocrats to usurp the intentions of state. It was the Weakness of the government that allowed men of means to usurp it and only then empower it to carry out their will under the guise of the law.
Are these statements those of the author who wrote this screenplay, or those of Jefferson and Hamilton?
Jefferson was right.
Jefferson and Hamilton HATED each other. They would NEVER sit down together and alone. They would have needed another person to moderate any debate...someone like Washington.
You don't know that............. 🥴
@@whathahk Actually, yes I do. I have read many letters from each man and it is clearly obvious.
@@thonatim5321 How you know they never sad down together? That is the question! Sure they didn't like each other, but politics is a different animal, And Jefferson was a smart politician!!!
@@whathahk I was there.
Such a blunder sometimes it makes me wonder why I even bring the thunder...
Why he even brings the thunder
It's like Jefferson knows me and what I support, as a Jeffersonian Socialist myself.
For a minute I thought I was watching an interview on CSPAN
Was this based on actual papers by them?
Seeing where we’re at I think we know who was right..
The Federalists, led by Secretary of Treasury Alexander Hamilton, wanted a strong central government, while the Anti-Federalists, led by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, advocated states' rights instead of centralized power.
I really think weve gone too far down the Hamiltonian path and have failed to stay balanced. If you want to advocate more for state rights youll actually hear people say stuff like "youre racist and want slavery to come back" which is bonkers af.
This is so cool
Where are the soucres of these from?
How right was Jefferson in the end. He may well have been a prophet.
Hi Alexander Hamilton
A little frustrating. The Jefferson impersonator seems to be speaking as an idealized Jefferson and Ian Rose is directly quoting Hamilton's words and really channelling him. Then again, as a debater, the Jefferson in this is pretending to agree with everything and restating points as something completely different to exaggerate disagreement. This is one of the most aggravating things to deal with as a debater, I'm a lil surprised Rose/Hamilton didn't lose his cool. It also may be an intentional character trait added to the actor's Jefferson. Good debate overall, though. They both have great ideas and also some horrible faults.
Head agrees with Hamilton, Heart with Jefferson.
"say a national a bank" meme level
Jefferson was a good man, but Hamilton was far more intelligent, consistent, and practical in both his political and economic philosophy.
Isolationists tend to favor Jefferson, while Imperialists would favor Hamilton.
It is a little more complicated than that. Hamilton was a nationalist while Jefferson was an internationalist. Jefferson would have loved the idea of a League of Nations or a United Nations just like FDR. Why use force and intimidation when you can sit at a table and talk to negotiate. He would have seen conquest and war to be incompatible with a republican form of gov’t. He wouldn’t have approved of a republic attacking another republic. In fact he would have condemned it. You have to understand that imperialism is rooted in nationalism ie “America first” idea.
Frankly Jefferson's economic ideas became outdated during the Gilded Age, when the U.S. transitioned from an agrarian culture to an industrial one. Jefferson was worried about the government exploiting the people, but he didn't foresee a future where industrial corporations became powerful enough to oppress their laborers. Perhaps Jeffersonian notions of self-reliance will become in vogue again some time in the future but that seems far off.
Hamilton on the other hand correctly predicted the US's future as a financial and industrial power.
Hamilton's vision led to disaster. Give me a gd break lol.
@@Braylon18 Hamilton's vision led to the Constitution.
@@briansheehan3430 Hamilton's visions of corporatism and a central bank has destroyed our country. He was a nationalist and that vision has led to ruin.
Where's the part where Jefferson calls his opponent a hermaphrodite?
It's not election season.
Perhaps they are modified from their original conversation.
General men how's it going🐇
Ironically, I know that both the First and Second Chartered National Bank of the United States were burned to the ground because of shady business practices.
Yet, the Federal Reserve, a private bank, has not been burned to the ground, despite it's shady practices, because of a quorum in 1913 which unlawfully ceded monetary control of the government to that bank. At the same time, federal taxes have sustained that bank, all the while that bank, being the Federal Reserve, has inflated our money to the point it is nearly worthless. One dollar in 1913 is now, a century later, worth only 4¢ or less. It is a travesty to any rational sensibility that such a theft of money from everyone, rich or poor, should not go unaudited or unpunished. The Federal Reserve deservedly needs to be abolished, and sound monetary policy restored to America by the House of Representatives in Congress, as the federal Constitution demands. Congress, not the Federal Reserve, sets the value of our money -- not the Federal Reserve using interest rates to control inflation. Yet for over 100 years, the Federal Reserve has done exactly what Tom Jefferson feared: Stolen the economic freedom of America's people via financiers and monocrats who think they know better than ordinary citizens how to execute sound financial policy. Because of this arrogance on the part of the financiers, and the apathy of the people, the people are nearly enslaved to the debt of previous generations.
People don't debate like this anymore. Nowadays it's one person keeping their composure and presenting facts while the other person has a tantrum and screams "BIGOT!!!" Once they start name-calling you during a debate, you've won the argument.
I prefer to yell socialist. There's no talking to savages like them.
but where did it take place
No one else was in the room when it happened
Joshua Uhri haha Hamilton reference
Jefferson ftw
I'm in agreement with Hamilton that local governments will have inherent bias and that the common man should never have a direct vote over the leader of all united states.
Jefferson and Hamilton Debate Federal vs. I know nothing about this subject synopsis pls ,just a few words
Jefferson for the win! 💪🏻🇺🇸
the electoral collage is a shame.
No it is not. If you want to be president and you have to go to those States and make your case to the people if you want to get over 270 votes
Well...it looks like Jefferson was right. Hamiltonian America is not going so swell.
How could Jefferson have purchased Louisiana from France had there been no large pile of cash with federal reserve created by Hamilton?
TEAM JEFFERSON!
Keep the e.c. !!!
Texas governor brought me here 😂
it this the real people?!?!?
Yes, but the videography was not as good as today; however, impressive lighting.
@@jaym48 Ahahahahaha!
Hamilton always meant “we need a strong ….” King, and all his peers knew it. F Hamilton, and … modern Hamiltonians.
How incredibly frustrating to listen to. Both men keep repeating their ideas, without ever bothering to explain or defend them.
When Hamilton talked about the size of his hands I lost all interest.
this is wrong.. (state).. similar to the meaning state of the nation.. are we at war.. if so.. there are laws within the bill of rights which asjust slightly..
📜🇺🇸
*adjust..
george washington was very disappointed in alexander hamilton upon learning the connection alexander kept with british ideology..
Jus waiting for some cry baby calling this racist
Hamilton was a realist. Jefferson was a hypocritical idealist.
Exactly how Jefferson was a hypocrite? How is it hypocritical to leave most of the power to the individual states?
Why do you have the John brown pfp and say that
So the one is a Democrat that says people are stupid can't think for themselves so they need smarter people who are us who buy golly won't be driven by our own ambitions and ambivalence and greed and desires for power no no the federal government would never have any of those kind of considerations over the other person who's saying no we can all be educated to a point to where we can make good decisions about government but that just means that you're gonna lose your power base and so the other guy basically goes into well you need to be canceled mode. Huh very interesting I think that I've found the underlying poison of the Democratic Party and it's progressive nonsense today we use the people are not capable of making good decisions you must have a government what a bunch of Crap. If Hamilton had died in a duel a lot earlier I think America would have been better off
Hamilton is commonly lauded by the right (for focus on business class, commerce)
@@leomate8301 that's a stunning argument you have their first an ad hominem attack and then they were right no matter what. I would say that your post-modernism Kool-Aid must taste very good
@@leomate8301 you might have a better discussion with yourself you can call yourself names all day long but I'm not in the habit of continuing conversations with people that just call me names have a nice day
where's the rapping??? so inaccurate! XD
Unfortunately looks like you won Mr. Hamilton. I imagine your thanking the tyrant Lincoln.
I love this video. Two of the best at what they do. Love Barker & love Jefferson. TJ was the man.