Make one yourself, drop £5-10 on his patron. It will probably be better for Clive (I doubt after a 3rd party apparel company have drop shipped an over priced item to you I doubt he would get as much as that per item, especially after double dipped seller fee's/tax. You would get the very specific design you wanted from whatever small business near you, instead of one of these faceless mass production companies overseas.
The fact they did use NiCad means this thing will probably still be functional in 30 years. NiCads are incredibly resilient to abuse...that's why many industrial sectors still use them.
Well NiCd cells are still being mass produced but less so than NiMh these days. NiCd is probably a bit safer when installed into a wall box but it would have been nice if they included AA sized cells so they light would have a more appropriate run time in an emergency.
NiCads are extremely tolerance of misuse...that's why they're still widely used in industrial applications. This light will still be working 20 years from now.
Why is NiCd safer than NiMh? Cadmium is toxic and NiCd batteries leak. NiMh have at least double the capacity so the light will work for longer, don't leak and don't have the memory effect that NiCds do. I thought NiCd batteries had been banned by the RoHs directive.
You explained it just fine. This is yet another case where it's so close, yet so far; a decent circuit with too many corners cut. They had reels of 220K, so they put them in these to live their short lives as screaming discharge resistors.
Over the years Clive I have come to trust your videos, and use them to know what not to buy so thank you very much Clive, I hope that you and Ralphy have a very good Hogmanay and all the best for 2025. Jim from Scotland
I enjoy your videos Clive and still learn new things even though I built my first radio back when you were about 7 years old . In the new year I will be 63 and what is great about that is I still learn new things and Clive you are a very good teacher if you don't mind me saying so as everybody can impart knowledge if they want to. All the best in 2025 for you and Ralphy!
Does anyone else remember getting the old radioshack slash tandem. Like seventy five and one and all those other kids that use the spring term when the wolves to construct electronic circuits. That's really how I got my start when it was realized that I was able to understand what phonics and you can also have an interest in what's doing things already Also believe we're not later on and I won't upbraid purposing components in those kids to actually go projects with. To be honest, those things got pretty boring after a while.Just not a good selection components for experimentation. I'd say about ninety percent of the stuff I was working We have to do things Was Mostly Is salvageed materials. Most of that was back in the days when you could normally walk into a local radioshack and get some parts. Nowadays about the closest thing to that is amazor honestly. Nowadays I can afford to just build from We'll fresh off , however , sometimes if something is going wrongkey or out of wack or even no longer Of any use or just dead. If there's anything usable or could be made to do something else with it even if it's not it's original purpose worth doing. We have ruled that if anything went out my household.It got salvage for parts if anything of use at all. Heck, I had AM radio in my bedroom.Old car radio converted to f.M There was an wooden box Read off a whole way power supply. And had a built in return for flashlight on the holder on the side. Flash light ran off a single cell of richard's woollen acid battery. I think it was from an emergency line if i'm not mistaken. Also built a few more of these around the house.You could even if so desire pull it from the holder.And it comes on depending on what suit which position . Also could be charged with a barrel jack. Can't remember what I'd use for the housing.So I think it might have been p v c pipe . If i'm not mistaken it used The old stared Flashlight bulbs.And yes there was one by the electrical panel as well. Is in one in the garage. Think I've built a charger that could be plugged in the cigarette lighter. But. T can't remember.
Oh. Yeah one story with one of those experimenter kits from rear shack and forgot. The short wave radio one. There was one little problem.The instructions were rather confusing. It turns out that when I was free it together. Something that occurs strange and didn't think abou got it until after and realized something. With the Is long farright rod sorry speeling. It should have gone through all the coils and turns out that It should have gone through all or most of the Coils can't remember if you weren't needed not go through. It was not working obviously first and then realized wait a second.Sometimes not right here and my experimentation it worked. And yes did read back through everything and clearly it was not exactly helpful with the instructions. Happen to actually run across this in some of my stuff.Several months ago, just the instruction book for the project kit.Don't you know why It was still a further stuff from back in the day
A very interesting emergency light that looks like it can be easily improved upon, even if just to mount it on a box containing larger NiCad cells. Like emergency light D cell pack. That would make the light run for hours when there is a mains failure. Thanks for the very explicit video. Makes for easy following. TNX K Watt
No need for that. They use a standard cell package with standard connector. Search for cordless phone battery's. They are dropin replacements and cheap
@@DrHarryT don't use NiMh in standby applications. electric toothbrushes live forever if not always put back onto the charger. and they use NiMh cells. those NiMh overcharge over time. they don't degrade as fast a Li-Po or Li-Ion and don't tend to combust spontanious like Li-XX on a standby charger BUT they're also not happy. put Li xx and NiMh on the charger PRIOR to use and NiCd and lead acid AFTER use. that way you geht the best results in service life out of them.
When you went to page 2 schematic, and I saw the "logic" circuit I knew it as a self latching, auto shut off when the battery voltage dropped to a certain lever. I've built several of these years ago to indicate power loss on equipment control panels. The auto off function was so if the power loss happened during unoccupied times. the batteries would not drain to zero.
I used the two transistors bootstrapped output stage for low voltage protection of 6 Volt lead acid batteries. The stage is biased via a Zener diode connected to the output, so when the battery voltage (under load) falls below 4.8 Volt, the circuit lose the bias, and the emergency light can't turn on again, even if the battery voltage rebounds...
I haven't looked for a while, but you used to be able to buy replacement battery packs for cordless home phones that were nimh batteries that look like they have a connector like that so you can probably just buy a higher capacity battery pack off the shelf to put in that. Edit: I just looked and you can get 800 mAh battery packs and the connector does look very similar.
@@NinoJoel You can still buy NiMh batteries with capacities of 2,500 mAh, easy enough to make up a pack that would run the light for many hours. Although it would take a lot longer to charge back up again.
@@NOWThatsRichy just wanted to mention it since these packs are available pre made with the same size and plug for cheap. They have way higher capacities to
@@NinoJoelYup. Guess what else using those those emergency radios with the hand crank?These are the return for batteries And so these units. And what do I have?Could either run on five way power , including a Similar nightcat, or is it Is a Nickel metal hydride pack?Cannot remember. But is exactly the same configuration as most Is the old corpus phones. Have you ever seen some small radios that use the same configuration as well. Also. Turns out that emergency radio with weatherband makes a good portal for a wave receiver And actually has decent radio reception.Evolve out Using an external antenna even on short wave I also have one of those pocket.Radios got off.Amazon that has a short wave receiver on there. You'd be surprised at.How low cost you can get a radio multiple function device.That actually is pretty decent even nowadays. But on short weapons I do prefer an Is analog tuner. AM radio at least broadcast band not so much these days.Kind of phone you're on a favor. Also, I'm gonna be building a portable long wire antennaren't you?That would be pocket sometimes I really swallow often out in the boonies on vacation. If you can rig up a long enough antenna you can get pretty good reception but otherwise radio reception is crap
That is a clever bit of engineering, I love how simple it is while at the same time how clever! Thank you for sharing this! Merry Xmas and have a wonderful New Year!
Thank you for your ever insightful look into the world of Chinesium products. For the low price it might be a good one to stick in near the breaker box since the flashlight that I keep there never seems to work. (and us old farts don't remember to use our phones for lights)
i really enjoyed this one. it was complex enough to be fascinating, but simple enough to follow along with the explanation. i particularly liked the way it latched on with the connection to the base of the penultimate transistor. in fact i am about to play with that mechanism on breadboard right now.
Over here in the USA, GE and another major (generic) brand sell a plug-in variety of these emergency NiCd lights/flashlights. They're very obviously designed for disassembly with a screw-together assembly - as I've done before already - to replace the batteries inside when they go bad. And yes, inside, is a commonly available cordless phone pack of NiCd batteries complete with the Molex connector to unplug the old and plug-in the new. My experience has been that they're all using AAA packs instead of AA. Before people knock the old batteries in-favor of LiPo or LiIon; sometimes the old way is still better.
That self latching 2 transistor circuit is very clever. I have liked and bookmarked his video so i can refer back to it if i need to build the same circuit for a project.
Pretty neat specimen of discrete design. Think I'll watch the schematic portion of the video a few more times til I'm sure I 100% understand that tricky circuit.
I have an old 900 MHz cordless phone with a very simmilar battery pack, and surprisingly it still holds a charge for a few hours of talk time despite being 28 years old.
I suspect the design point is enough light to keep from stubbing a toe as you find a flashlight or leave the room. I have a similar device that plugs into an outlet, but it has a removable light. It’s been around since before NiMh became popular and has an optional night light function.
Clever design so it doesn't completely drain the batteries and kill them. So many emergency lights that severely deep discharge the SLA or NiCad batteries that then ends up killing them as soon as they've been off-line for any amount of time.
We just had the batteries replaced in many emergency lights at work (south UK), and i was talking to the sparky that was doing the job. They were all Ni-Cd batteries. I was quite surprised they were still being used. Anyone know why they are still used in this application ?.
In the UK emergency lights don't have to last for 3hrs if they are fully re-charged before the building is re-occupied..then you only need apply the 1hr rule . In reality we all use use the 3hr rule for office/ factories etc... but can be handy to remember for outbuildings that are not permanently manned.
Quite interesting mode of operation! Could be a bit better with a lithium cell, but then it would need charge control. This way, it only needs a standard wireless phone battery pack.
Yeah, I knew this guy was a Phony. If you're up this early after a Christmas Dinner. YOU DIDN'T DRINK ENOUGH AFTERWARDS 😂 .... im still in bed, and it's like 4pm,.. where's my drink , and the remote WHO TOOK APART THE REMOTE 🤣 Have A Great New Year 🎊 And thanks for sharing the fun you have with everyone 🤗
Eight pieces of £13 NiCa 230AC input emergency LED lights were provided to me to install five years ago. The wider ones with a direction arrow on green. Their circuit board felt sturdy, components were properly installed. Overall good built quality. What caught my eye was that circuit board and components looked brand new but as if from the 70s, very nice, actually. But given low price and NiCa, I had absolutely no faith in these whatsoever at the time. I was wrong. Very wrong. Now five years later, none has failed while having been on 24/7. All still work for at least three hours on their battery. Actually... one had been disconnected from 230AC for half a year, obviously, its battery left drained for all that time. Yet to my surprise, that one still runs for three hours too.
Awesome Video Big Clive👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Interesting form factor looks like the US standard shape. And we don't have a lot of covers that Snap on still going for the double screw approach. They are more common than they were but still not common place in most homes.
Might not meet commercial specs but I'd definitely need something like it so I dont break my neck on the basement stairs when the power goes out at home.
Thanks for a great video. At 9:47 you pointed at the 27k resistor and said there would still be a small standby current even when LEDs off - I am not sure about that, wouldn't the transistor Y1 be fully off so no standby current?
I may have been thinking of Y2 as being an NPN transistor and there being base leakage. But looking at the schematic again, there shouldn't be much leakage.
NiCd cells when charged slowly (below about 0.3C) are relatively inefficient (especially compared to lithium), so I could see these taking 1-2 days to charge from absolutely dead.
Thanks for your videos. They are fun. I especially love all the fudd comments. Applogies if I ruffle any viewer feathers. Nimh battery tech is going to be with us for a long long time yet.
I can’t imagine having 220V in every house in every outlet. In US 220 is considered industrial electricity for very heavy machinery. Only time you find large 220 in US homes is for very large clothes dryers or in some cases in larger houses for very large fridges. But in most small homes even those appliances run on 120V.
It's actually more exciting than that, the average voltage on a UK power outlet is around 245 volts, sometimes briefly dipping to about 230, at least where I live anyway, so yeah, it's a bit spicy.
Not sure where you get this? Except some very modern heat pump units every single electric dryer I've seen for us residential is 240 volt, gas units sure 120 volts, but not for electric. Same for water heaters, though most heat pump water heaters still run 240, partially for backup resistive elements. Electric stoves, ranges, ovens, air conditioners/heat pumps other than window/portable units, we have lots of 240 in us homes, it's not what most outlets have here but it's common for houses to have a number of 240 volt appliances. 240 is also common for ev charging, well pumps, hot tubs, some pool pumps, welders, larger electric heaters or electric furnaces, baseboard heaters, and more. 240 is also actually even more rare in commercial settings, there you more often find 208 for mid power things, and large or industrial uses typically start at 480 volts and for very heavy loads often use evrn higher voltages, heck most commercial lighting runs on 277, which is phase to neutral on a 480 volt panel, not off the 120/208 panel.
There exist 120V dryers. They're mostly smaller, typically stacked units. They take twice as long to dry as "regular" dryers. You can pretty much find a 120V version of any 240V appliance, but you wouldn't necessarily want to use it except in special circumstances.
It looks like they have used the npn/pnp transistor equivalent of a thyristor so as to effectively customise the operation to their requirements. I wonder if they could have used a thyristor like the common C106 to switch the LEDs instead?
Very interesting design and explanation, no ic and all using voltage dividers and discharge differences, clearly the goal is reducing production cost! Not sure how the rectified AC was dropped down to ~7v though? Effect of the resistor size and limiting capacitor?
Given that it sits on the mains until needed would super capacitors be an adequate battery replacement that would give the unit greater longevity? Sure it would make it bulkier but if it is installed in a wall or ceiling most of that bulk is hidden anyway. Imagine having one of these things in every room, servinging the batter would be a PITA. I think I'd rather have them using red LEDs, particularly if it was going to give it a longer run time. Are there any commercial units like that?
A couple of factors about NiCd cells that you may have overlooked. They should never be charged at greater than C/10 (so 30mA for that pack) and their charging efficiency is quite low with a factor of 1.4 To fully charge that pack would need 30mA for 14hrs. If the charge current is less than this then it's going to take proportionally longer, so 2 days may be a reasonable time for a much lower current. Also NiCds should only be charged at C/10 or less if they are being trickle charged and should be fully discharged before charging or the charge memory effect becomes noticeable, although they can often be recovered by deep charge/discharge cycling 2 or 3 times at reasonable current (C/10 is a good figure 😉). Bonus fact NiMH batteries are even more fussy about trickle charging and only C/20 is acceptable to avoid damaging them. Early simple charge circuits just using a resistive dropper are responsible for a lot of e-waste😉
Two things that I kinda wonder about emergency lights and whole house solutions... One is if we'll ever get to a point of having lights in a home all being part of a centralized DC system with backup power that is independent from the rest of the house circuitry. You know, all these lights being low power, relatively easier to setup a backup solution in case of a blackout, if it doesn't make more sense to wire a different circuit for it. And then the thing I'm wondering is why I don't see more full solution lights in the market. I was looking into this fairly recently, couldn't find something that can act both as a fixed light, but also portable, with internal battery, and optional things like light and motion sensor capabilities. Perhaps because rechargeable batteries are still not the greatest solution to keep always charging in place in a fixed position? I was specifically looking for a bed light that can be wired to the mains, but could also be taken to light up the way at night or during an emergency. Was a bit surprised that I couldn't find an all in one solution. Basically the same as a portable light with a charging base station, but that you can fix to a wall or bed frame.
Too flimsy? Yeah... fire hazard not a worthy tradeoff. xD Maybe I should be a bit more worried with the bed lights I got that just has a wall socket or direct wire connection and unnervingly thin wires. Then again, it's low power stuff... not exactly something to light an entire room.
Can anyone answer: Will a 18V Li Ion battery charger for my drill batteries charge much larger aHr batteries than were available when it was new? I would like to have much larger capacity batteries.
@@keithcarpenter5254 Thanks. I have hoped that would be the only difference. Nearly 20 years ago the largest available battery for this was 3aHr but now you can get 6 aHr. I know the charge profile is CC then CV for Li Ion and I couldn't answer if the larger battery would also try to draw more or overloading current in the CC phase. I guess my question was what is the relation of battery capacity to charging draw, if any.
Great reverse engineering Clive and explanation of its function I have seen that output circuit with a relay in place of the LEDs to make it latch on and off. This pairing of NPN and PNP is an alternative to a Darlington pair - it has low forward voltage and higher gain.
Same size as used in Australia and New Zealand, and beyond. We copied an old US crowfoot plug, little used there now. China copied ours, but with longer pins and no insulation, so a kids finger can touch a live pin on a plug partially inserted into an Aussie socket. We have mounting boxes to surface mount these outlets in garages or industrial sites, fed by conduit, of from behind you could probably use. To go behind gyprock there are simple metal clips.
No ~ they have to be fully discharged before being ‘recharged’ otherwise they are damaged/have their life shortened, that is why NIMH battery’s are more popular as you don’t need to full-cycle them 😉
It seems overly complicated for what it does! I was expecting a transistor/diode setup like the solar PV auto-on at dusk! I think you covered it in one of your videos.
Thank you Clive, i don't comment enough, but i think this video in particular, solidified my understanding of electrical schematics. "One moment please" .... you're an ALLSTAR !!!! 👏👍🤘🤌
It appears the batteries were discharged which are rated @.3A yet when you gave it mains if started charging @.77A, well over 2C of the rated capacity of the batteries...Not good
Hmm, why does it say "LED " near the audio clip terminals on the AnTai? Does it have some LED testing functionality? Or maybe it's just that it has an LED display?
My very good man, one - A very merry (Hope the glass is fuull) Christmas to you and Ralfy. Second...... Any chance of doing a electronics for dummy's, you know the basics of working stuff out, resistors, diodes, led's ect. I always watch your vids, understand a slight fraction. Bit like me saying, arm that MK 10 martin baker ejection seat, then we'll do the MK 12..... Mk 16.... We all have limited knowledge and a little bit more would be awsome. Then again I could say disaram that bomb............. OH! Dear............
The battery charging on this. remind me of Another circuit this has been covered or not on this channel or even mentioned It or if someone has mentioned this in comments as well I remember not only seeing how to do this.With a seventy eight hundred series Linear voltage regulator as a current regulator For Battery charger was fairly Simple circuit.But of course, it's just one part of the circuit but it's for me clever.I think i've seen this at least twice in some sort of product as well. Before I'd heard about how to do this, it was like.Why would there be a voltage tragulator In the circuit and the notice something was a little off of how it was It configured. I remember back in the battle days where you would have a retract file a Light bulb socket of course non polarized l No grounded line cord 1 A nice Chunky pair of battery clamps. Essentially one hundred watt inconnected volksward and series with the bridge rectifier. Of course the battery clamps to the Positive and negative output of the verge rectifier. Is bombay been enclosed or not. And yes I won't spell the separate battery charger like This. Wouldn't be surprised if that Mysterious load of my front box that store my grandparents place Is contains essentially the same circuitry. And yes Since potentially reference double line isolation Should be treated as though.The battery clamps are alive as long as It has power. Long go and completely obsolete And not recommended. They had once when about this time.This would be used that were actually isolated, but back then.The electronics are so expensive even just to add a power transformer. Fortunately grandpa was using a more modern battery charger back in the day as well lots safer. But you did actually have a suicide cord on the workbench racquet of the day. Lil wayne two problem lamp cord with alligator clips. By the way, I do eventually want to get the cliff quick test with the American wire colors. I know the rebel and have looked into it. Wouldn't recommend anyone do this for safety. And yes, big Clive does have a video on thewhat do you quick test specifically?I do enough repairs and other things.It's worth having for safety
@@simontay4851 In the case of NiCad cells they seem to tolerate a higher continuous trickle charge. By trickle charging I mean no end of charge control. Just relying on the internal chemical recycling to convert liberated gas back into liquid.
Grandfathered from RoHS thanks to certifications for medical and industrial equipment that require recertification for any design changes. In theory, they could restrict use to legacy designs but that would be difficult to enforce.
The other characteristic of NiCd (particularly flooded NiCd at least) is their superior low temperature performance. I know there was a desire to outlaw them but a successful case was made that there was not an adequate alternative
You need a T shirt that says ‘ONE MOMENT PLEASE’
"Watch your eyes, the light is coming back!"
Make one yourself, drop £5-10 on his patron. It will probably be better for Clive (I doubt after a 3rd party apparel company have drop shipped an over priced item to you I doubt he would get as much as that per item, especially after double dipped seller fee's/tax. You would get the very specific design you wanted from whatever small business near you, instead of one of these faceless mass production companies overseas.
In pink.
It must be in pink.
The exit display at my local shopping centre carpark shows "One Moment Please", just before the boom gate opens.
I always think of Clive.
That and a kink palculator one would be amazing
Someone found a warehouse full of old, cordless phone batteries and had an idea.
The fact they did use NiCad means this thing will probably still be functional in 30 years. NiCads are incredibly resilient to abuse...that's why many industrial sectors still use them.
Well NiCd cells are still being mass produced but less so than NiMh these days. NiCd is probably a bit safer when installed into a wall box but it would have been nice if they included AA sized cells so they light would have a more appropriate run time in an emergency.
NiCads are extremely tolerance of misuse...that's why they're still widely used in industrial applications. This light will still be working 20 years from now.
Why is NiCd safer than NiMh? Cadmium is toxic and NiCd batteries leak. NiMh have at least double the capacity so the light will work for longer, don't leak and don't have the memory effect that NiCds do. I thought NiCd batteries had been banned by the RoHs directive.
NiCADs are still used in emergency lighting due to stable characteristics in terms of ability to trickle charge forever, and not spontaneous combust.
You explained it just fine. This is yet another case where it's so close, yet so far; a decent circuit with too many corners cut. They had reels of 220K, so they put them in these to live their short lives as screaming discharge resistors.
So nice of them to provide extra solder pads in case the fuse blows, so you can solder in a new fuse.
So you can solder in a new properly calibrated wire :D
then you throw it away as it could have blasted the leds off by then, have this lead acid flashlight here i found that did this, but yeah
Over the years Clive I have come to trust your videos, and use them to know what not to buy so thank you very much Clive, I hope that you and Ralphy have a very good Hogmanay and all the best for 2025. Jim from Scotland
I enjoy your videos Clive and still learn new things even though I built my first radio back when you were about 7 years old . In the new year I will be 63 and what is great about that is I still learn new things and Clive you are a very good teacher if you don't mind me saying so as everybody can impart knowledge if they want to. All the best in 2025 for you and Ralphy!
Does anyone else remember getting the old radioshack slash tandem.
Like seventy five and one and all those other kids that use the spring term when the wolves to construct electronic circuits.
That's really how I got my start when it was realized that I was able to understand what phonics and you can also have an interest in what's doing things already Also believe we're not later on and I won't upbraid purposing components in those kids to actually go projects with.
To be honest, those things got pretty boring after a while.Just not a good selection components for experimentation.
I'd say about ninety percent of the stuff I was working We have to do things Was Mostly Is salvageed materials. Most of that was back in the days when you could normally walk into a local radioshack and get some parts.
Nowadays about the closest thing to that is amazor honestly.
Nowadays I can afford to just build from We'll fresh off , however , sometimes if something is going wrongkey or out of wack or even no longer Of any use or just dead.
If there's anything usable or could be made to do something else with it even if it's not it's original purpose worth doing.
We have ruled that if anything went out my household.It got salvage for parts if anything of use at all.
Heck, I had AM radio in my bedroom.Old car radio converted to f.M There was an wooden box Read off a whole way power supply.
And had a built in return for flashlight on the holder on the side.
Flash light ran off a single cell of richard's woollen acid battery.
I think it was from an emergency line if i'm not mistaken.
Also built a few more of these around the house.You could even if so desire pull it from the holder.And it comes on depending on what suit which position .
Also could be charged with a barrel jack.
Can't remember what I'd use for the housing.So I think it might have been p v c pipe .
If i'm not mistaken it used The old stared Flashlight bulbs.And yes there was one by the electrical panel as well.
Is in one in the garage.
Think I've built a charger that could be plugged in the cigarette lighter. But.
T can't remember.
Oh.
Yeah one story with one of those experimenter kits from rear shack and forgot.
The short wave radio one.
There was one little problem.The instructions were rather confusing.
It turns out that when I was free it together.
Something that occurs strange and didn't think abou got it until after and realized something.
With the Is long farright rod sorry speeling.
It should have gone through all the coils and turns out that It should have gone through all or most of the Coils can't remember if you weren't needed not go through.
It was not working obviously first and then realized wait a second.Sometimes not right here and my experimentation it worked.
And yes did read back through everything and clearly it was not exactly helpful with the instructions.
Happen to actually run across this in some of my stuff.Several months ago, just the instruction book for the project kit.Don't you know why It was still a further stuff from back in the day
@bob so, wait, you built a radio when you were 9 ?
A very interesting emergency light that looks like it can be easily improved upon, even if just to mount it on a box containing larger NiCad cells. Like emergency light D cell pack. That would make the light run for hours when there is a mains failure.
Thanks for the very explicit video. Makes for easy following.
TNX
K Watt
Change the batteries to NiMh, same voltage. [3 cells in series, 3.6V]
No need for that.
They use a standard cell package with standard connector.
Search for cordless phone battery's.
They are dropin replacements and cheap
@@DrHarryT don't use NiMh in standby applications.
electric toothbrushes live forever if not always put back onto the charger. and they use NiMh cells.
those NiMh overcharge over time. they don't degrade as fast a Li-Po or Li-Ion and don't tend to combust spontanious like Li-XX on a standby charger BUT they're also not happy.
put Li xx and NiMh on the charger PRIOR to use and NiCd and lead acid AFTER use. that way you geht the best results in service life out of them.
Nice explanation of that latch dropping out at low volts.
When you went to page 2 schematic, and I saw the "logic" circuit I knew it as a self latching, auto shut off when the battery voltage dropped to a certain lever. I've built several of these years ago to indicate power loss on equipment control panels. The auto off function was so if the power loss happened during unoccupied times. the batteries would not drain to zero.
How does it turn off if the power comes back on before the battery is low?
@@rolfs2165 7:58 this transistor will switch on again.
I used the two transistors bootstrapped output stage for low voltage protection of 6 Volt lead acid batteries. The stage is biased via a Zener diode connected to the output, so when the battery voltage (under load) falls below 4.8 Volt, the circuit lose the bias, and the emergency light can't turn on again, even if the battery voltage rebounds...
I haven't looked for a while, but you used to be able to buy replacement battery packs for cordless home phones that were nimh batteries that look like they have a connector like that so you can probably just buy a higher capacity battery pack off the shelf to put in that.
Edit: I just looked and you can get 800 mAh battery packs and the connector does look very similar.
These are still all over the place and cheap.
These packs are standard with Manny things like phones and walkie talkies
@@NinoJoel You can still buy NiMh batteries with capacities of 2,500 mAh, easy enough to make up a pack that would run the light for many hours. Although it would take a lot longer to charge back up again.
@@NOWThatsRichy just wanted to mention it since these packs are available pre made with the same size and plug for cheap.
They have way higher capacities to
@@NinoJoelYup.
Guess what else using those those emergency radios with the hand crank?These are the return for batteries And so these units.
And what do I have?Could either run on five way power , including a Similar nightcat, or is it Is a Nickel metal hydride pack?Cannot remember.
But is exactly the same configuration as most Is the old corpus phones.
Have you ever seen some small radios that use the same configuration as well.
Also.
Turns out that emergency radio with weatherband makes a good portal for a wave receiver And actually has decent radio reception.Evolve out Using an external antenna even on short wave
I also have one of those pocket.Radios got off.Amazon that has a short wave receiver on there.
You'd be surprised at.How low cost you can get a radio multiple function device.That actually is pretty decent even nowadays.
But on short weapons I do prefer an Is analog tuner.
AM radio at least broadcast band not so much these days.Kind of phone you're on a favor.
Also, I'm gonna be building a portable long wire antennaren't you?That would be pocket sometimes I really swallow often out in the boonies on vacation.
If you can rig up a long enough antenna you can get pretty good reception but otherwise radio reception is crap
Interesting circuit even if a bit hard to explain, which you did an admirable job of, thank you Big Clive.
Good to see a circuit without a microcontroller for a change :-)
When you said smoking hot resistor, I immediately went back to hearing Fanny Flambeaux's gang name.... if you know, you know......
Fanny Flambeau is what introduced me to BigClive.
@@CoffeeFurret Same here, it was the first video of Clive's I saw.
That is a clever bit of engineering, I love how simple it is while at the same time how clever! Thank you for sharing this! Merry Xmas and have a wonderful New Year!
Thank you for your ever insightful look into the world of Chinesium products. For the low price it might be a good one to stick in near the breaker box since the flashlight that I keep there never seems to work. (and us old farts don't remember to use our phones for lights)
Thank you, Clive, for another learning experience. Also, thank you for your Christmas greetings on YT Briefs.
i really enjoyed this one. it was complex enough to be fascinating, but simple enough to follow along with the explanation. i particularly liked the way it latched on with the connection to the base of the penultimate transistor. in fact i am about to play with that mechanism on breadboard right now.
_in an old Obi Wan voice_ "Nickel cadmium, I haven't heard that name in a long time. Oh, since before you were born." 😂😂😂
This circuit looks like something out of the old hobby electronics magazines. No chips.
Over here in the USA, GE and another major (generic) brand sell a plug-in variety of these emergency NiCd lights/flashlights. They're very obviously designed for disassembly with a screw-together assembly - as I've done before already - to replace the batteries inside when they go bad. And yes, inside, is a commonly available cordless phone pack of NiCd batteries complete with the Molex connector to unplug the old and plug-in the new. My experience has been that they're all using AAA packs instead of AA. Before people knock the old batteries in-favor of LiPo or LiIon; sometimes the old way is still better.
Wow. Thanks Big Clive. Very interesting.
That self latching 2 transistor circuit is very clever. I have liked and bookmarked his video so i can refer back to it if i need to build the same circuit for a project.
Happy New Year! Thank you, keep working.
This is quite complicated. I like the latching circuit. Thank you.
You explained it perfectly for me Clive. Agree with the T-shirt comment!
Pretty neat specimen of discrete design. Think I'll watch the schematic portion of the video a few more times til I'm sure I 100% understand that tricky circuit.
I had wondered if it had a UVLO circuit, you explained it nicely.
I have an old 900 MHz cordless phone with a very simmilar battery pack, and surprisingly it still holds a charge for a few hours of talk time despite being 28 years old.
I suspect the design point is enough light to keep from stubbing a toe as you find a flashlight or leave the room.
I have a similar device that plugs into an outlet, but it has a removable light. It’s been around since before NiMh became popular and has an optional night light function.
Very apt as we have suffered with a power cut today during storm Burt.
I hope you are back on now!
Clever design so it doesn't completely drain the batteries and kill them. So many emergency lights that severely deep discharge the SLA or NiCad batteries that then ends up killing them as soon as they've been off-line for any amount of time.
We just had the batteries replaced in many emergency lights at work (south UK), and i was talking to the sparky that was doing the job. They were all Ni-Cd batteries. I was quite surprised they were still being used. Anyone know why they are still used in this application ?.
Better suited to higher current trickle charging than NiMH and safer than lithium cells. Some new lights use LiFePO4 cells though.
Interesting design. Seemingly, a pre-grinder video.
In the UK emergency lights don't have to last for 3hrs if they are fully re-charged before the building is re-occupied..then you only need apply the 1hr rule . In reality we all use use the 3hr rule for office/ factories etc... but can be handy to remember for outbuildings that are not permanently manned.
I think you used your entire lifetime supply of using the word "transistor" during this one.
Quite interesting mode of operation! Could be a bit better with a lithium cell, but then it would need charge control. This way, it only needs a standard wireless phone battery pack.
Great explanation! I find self latching circuits really clever and interesting.
As a computer type it is rather reminiscent of a flip-flop.
Kinda like auto-siphon systems in that regard. Yeah.
Today it most likely would use a programmable chip for even this simple a function.
Yeah, I knew this guy was a Phony.
If you're up this early after a Christmas Dinner.
YOU DIDN'T DRINK ENOUGH AFTERWARDS 😂
.... im still in bed, and it's like 4pm,.. where's my drink , and the remote
WHO TOOK APART THE REMOTE 🤣
Have A Great New Year 🎊
And thanks for sharing the fun you have with everyone 🤗
Ooh, I have an idea! Nickel Cadmium Sulfide batteries. They charge themselves in the dark. :)
Very cool circuit. Thanks ❤
Eight pieces of £13 NiCa 230AC input emergency LED lights were provided to me to install five years ago. The wider ones with a direction arrow on green. Their circuit board felt sturdy, components were properly installed. Overall good built quality. What caught my eye was that circuit board and components looked brand new but as if from the 70s, very nice, actually. But given low price and NiCa, I had absolutely no faith in these whatsoever at the time. I was wrong. Very wrong. Now five years later, none has failed while having been on 24/7. All still work for at least three hours on their battery. Actually... one had been disconnected from 230AC for half a year, obviously, its battery left drained for all that time. Yet to my surprise, that one still runs for three hours too.
Somebody had some transistor fun😊
Intereresting device BC, thanks for explaining it. Towards the end I think you meant to replace the 1uF dropper cap with 470nF not 470uF ?
I'll check that and add a correction in the description.
Awesome Video Big Clive👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you BC 👍👌👏👏
Interesting form factor looks like the US standard shape. And we don't have a lot of covers that Snap on still going for the double screw approach. They are more common than they were but still not common place in most homes.
Might not meet commercial specs but I'd definitely need something like it so I dont break my neck on the basement stairs when the power goes out at home.
Thanks for a great video. At 9:47 you pointed at the 27k resistor and said there would still be a small standby current even when LEDs off - I am not sure about that, wouldn't the transistor Y1 be fully off so no standby current?
I may have been thinking of Y2 as being an NPN transistor and there being base leakage. But looking at the schematic again, there shouldn't be much leakage.
Neat design!
Grinder cut magically disappears haha 😁😁
Yeah, this is an older video that I thought would be less popular, so I held back on it.
Can anyone tell me what soldering iron/station big Clive uses? Thanks
I currently use a generic Chinese unit called a Yihua 8786D. I've had it for a long time.
NiCd cells when charged slowly (below about 0.3C) are relatively inefficient (especially compared to lithium), so I could see these taking 1-2 days to charge from absolutely dead.
Thanks :)
This video must have been filmed before the cordless grinder video due to the lack of a gouge in the workbench 😆
Thanks for your videos. They are fun. I especially love all the fudd comments. Applogies if I ruffle any viewer feathers. Nimh battery tech is going to be with us for a long long time yet.
10:08 Simultaneously at once…! What happened there Clive😂?
Hey Big Clive. Please can you do a tear down of a cars rain sensor so that we can see how to connect it to a esp32 or r-pi
nicd nimh --- why not c/20 trickle charge?
I think they're aiming for a faster recovery after a power outage.
well explained
I can’t imagine having 220V in every house in every outlet. In US 220 is considered industrial electricity for very heavy machinery. Only time you find large 220 in US homes is for very large clothes dryers or in some cases in larger houses for very large fridges. But in most small homes even those appliances run on 120V.
It's actually more exciting than that, the average voltage on a UK power outlet is around 245 volts, sometimes briefly dipping to about 230, at least where I live anyway, so yeah, it's a bit spicy.
Not sure where you get this? Except some very modern heat pump units every single electric dryer I've seen for us residential is 240 volt, gas units sure 120 volts, but not for electric. Same for water heaters, though most heat pump water heaters still run 240, partially for backup resistive elements. Electric stoves, ranges, ovens, air conditioners/heat pumps other than window/portable units, we have lots of 240 in us homes, it's not what most outlets have here but it's common for houses to have a number of 240 volt appliances. 240 is also common for ev charging, well pumps, hot tubs, some pool pumps, welders, larger electric heaters or electric furnaces, baseboard heaters, and more. 240 is also actually even more rare in commercial settings, there you more often find 208 for mid power things, and large or industrial uses typically start at 480 volts and for very heavy loads often use evrn higher voltages, heck most commercial lighting runs on 277, which is phase to neutral on a 480 volt panel, not off the 120/208 panel.
There exist 120V dryers. They're mostly smaller, typically stacked units. They take twice as long to dry as "regular" dryers. You can pretty much find a 120V version of any 240V appliance, but you wouldn't necessarily want to use it except in special circumstances.
It looks like they have used the npn/pnp transistor equivalent of a thyristor so as to effectively customise the operation to their requirements. I wonder if they could have used a thyristor like the common C106 to switch the LEDs instead?
Yes, that would be fine to switch the LEDs on but very hard to switch off at low battery voltage.
Very interesting design and explanation, no ic and all using voltage dividers and discharge differences, clearly the goal is reducing production cost!
Not sure how the rectified AC was dropped down to ~7v though? Effect of the resistor size and limiting capacitor?
Current limiting and the zener diode.
Given that it sits on the mains until needed would super capacitors be an adequate battery replacement that would give the unit greater longevity? Sure it would make it bulkier but if it is installed in a wall or ceiling most of that bulk is hidden anyway. Imagine having one of these things in every room, servinging the batter would be a PITA. I think I'd rather have them using red LEDs, particularly if it was going to give it a longer run time. Are there any commercial units like that?
I've never seen an emergency light with a supercapacitor.
A couple of factors about NiCd cells that you may have overlooked. They should never be charged at greater than C/10 (so 30mA for that pack) and their charging efficiency is quite low with a factor of 1.4
To fully charge that pack would need 30mA for 14hrs. If the charge current is less than this then it's going to take proportionally longer, so 2 days may be a reasonable time for a much lower current. Also NiCds should only be charged at C/10 or less if they are being trickle charged and should be fully discharged before charging or the charge memory effect becomes noticeable, although they can often be recovered by deep charge/discharge cycling 2 or 3 times at reasonable current (C/10 is a good figure 😉). Bonus fact NiMH batteries are even more fussy about trickle charging and only C/20 is acceptable to avoid damaging them.
Early simple charge circuits just using a resistive dropper are responsible for a lot of e-waste😉
Thank you for the analysis. Now I want one to play with, but couldn’t find it. :(
It looks like a 50 year old emergency light circuit, barely modified to feed modern LEDs.
Two things that I kinda wonder about emergency lights and whole house solutions...
One is if we'll ever get to a point of having lights in a home all being part of a centralized DC system with backup power that is independent from the rest of the house circuitry.
You know, all these lights being low power, relatively easier to setup a backup solution in case of a blackout, if it doesn't make more sense to wire a different circuit for it.
And then the thing I'm wondering is why I don't see more full solution lights in the market.
I was looking into this fairly recently, couldn't find something that can act both as a fixed light, but also portable, with internal battery, and optional things like light and motion sensor capabilities.
Perhaps because rechargeable batteries are still not the greatest solution to keep always charging in place in a fixed position?
I was specifically looking for a bed light that can be wired to the mains, but could also be taken to light up the way at night or during an emergency. Was a bit surprised that I couldn't find an all in one solution. Basically the same as a portable light with a charging base station, but that you can fix to a wall or bed frame.
The main issue with acceptance of a 24V DC wiring system for lighting is the incompatibility with existing home wiring systems.
Too flimsy? Yeah... fire hazard not a worthy tradeoff. xD Maybe I should be a bit more worried with the bed lights I got that just has a wall socket or direct wire connection and unnervingly thin wires. Then again, it's low power stuff... not exactly something to light an entire room.
Can anyone answer: Will a 18V Li Ion battery charger for my drill batteries charge much larger aHr batteries than were available when it was new? I would like to have much larger capacity batteries.
Yes, it'll just take longer. 😊
@@keithcarpenter5254 Thanks. I have hoped that would be the only difference. Nearly 20 years ago the largest available battery for this was 3aHr but now you can get 6 aHr. I know the charge profile is CC then CV for Li Ion and I couldn't answer if the larger battery would also try to draw more or overloading current in the CC phase. I guess my question was what is the relation of battery capacity to charging draw, if any.
Looks ok I suppose, it has a function I guess thanks Clive 😊
Great reverse engineering Clive and explanation of its function
I have seen that output circuit with a relay in place of the LEDs to make it latch on and off. This pairing of NPN and PNP is an alternative to a Darlington pair - it has low forward voltage and higher gain.
2:33 - "There is a discharge resistor" proceed to put finger to check if resistor really discharge capacitor :D
Just needs a NEMA backbox and it'll fit right in, only problem is, those are not cheap to get over here... :P
Same size as used in Australia and New Zealand, and beyond. We copied an old US crowfoot plug, little used there now. China copied ours, but with longer pins and no insulation, so a kids finger can touch a live pin on a plug partially inserted into an Aussie socket. We have mounting boxes to surface mount these outlets in garages or industrial sites, fed by conduit, of from behind you could probably use. To go behind gyprock there are simple metal clips.
A good example of using transistors as simple switches (I think?)
I like the formfactor. I am curious if that would fit in an American box?
2:10 Me looking at the random goth chick in the mall
nicad? i thought their use had been banned?
They are still used in emergency lighting, as they are still the best choice.
No ~ they have to be fully discharged before being ‘recharged’ otherwise they are damaged/have their life shortened, that is why NIMH battery’s are more popular as you don’t need to full-cycle them 😉
Thanks Clive.
Take the Lead out of solder, but fill the building with Cadmiun.!?
Need I say more...
It seems overly complicated for what it does!
I was expecting a transistor/diode setup like the solar PV auto-on at dusk!
I think you covered it in one of your videos.
i must add another comment now that i am sitting down and watching the video, at time of writing this video has 506 likes and 494 views, i love it
Merry Christmas buddy. Watch your fanny flambaugh vid every year for a laugh 😂. Wishing you all the best for 2025 ❤
Thank you Clive, i don't comment enough, but i think this video in particular, solidified my understanding of electrical schematics. "One moment please" .... you're an ALLSTAR !!!! 👏👍🤘🤌
It appears the batteries were discharged which are rated @.3A yet when you gave it mains if started charging @.77A, well over 2C of the rated capacity of the batteries...Not good
A significant portion of that power was being wasted in that undersized discharge resistor and lost in the several voltage dividers.
3:00 Meagre battery and overdriven self-destructing emitters? That check's out.
Wow I didn't know Rube Goldberg did electronics too!
Clever circuitry, stupidly implemented.
Hmm, why does it say "LED " near the audio clip terminals on the AnTai? Does it have some LED testing functionality? Or maybe it's just that it has an LED display?
Only three mandarin characters are fully visible but they say LED in mandarin
It doesn't look like it goes on a 1 gang flush box or is it a 2 gang box. Needs to be at least a 35mm by the look of the depth of it..
Probably designed for a Chinese wall box sizing.
I'm surprised that the battery dot was not bright pink!
could use a simulator to show what happens for a complex circuit
They make NiCd batteries in 2024!? I remember VW having to do a recall because one component in their GTE hybrid cars had like 1g of Cadmium.
I'm doubtful that RoHS holds up, seeing the battery containing cadmium.
Most current emergency lights still use NiCad cells.
@@bigclivedotcom Btw. TH-cam seems to not allow discussions about heavy metals.
Well explained Clive! 👍
I got and still use shaver from 2000 that use NiCad cells , still works fine 90% if unplug from 110v, but sadly new Lithium gifts dead after 2 years
My very good man, one - A very merry (Hope the glass is fuull) Christmas to you and Ralfy. Second...... Any chance of doing a electronics for dummy's, you know the basics of working stuff out, resistors, diodes, led's ect. I always watch your vids, understand a slight fraction. Bit like me saying, arm that MK 10 martin baker ejection seat, then we'll do the MK 12..... Mk 16.... We all have limited knowledge and a little bit more would be awsome. Then again I could say disaram that bomb............. OH! Dear............
Nice teardown , they didn't use class X2 capacitor to reduce the cost.
I wonder if the emergency module is predictive. If I put it in my car, will it warn me of impending collisions? Can I call it Robbie?
It notifies you of collisions in dark places by turning on.
👍♥
The battery charging on this.
remind me of Another circuit this has been covered or not on this channel or even mentioned It or if someone has mentioned this in comments as well
I remember not only seeing how to do this.With a seventy eight hundred series Linear voltage regulator as a current regulator
For Battery charger was fairly Simple circuit.But of course, it's just one part of the circuit but it's for me clever.I think i've seen this at least twice in some sort of product as well.
Before I'd heard about how to do this, it was like.Why would there be a voltage tragulator In the circuit and the notice something was a little off of how it was It configured.
I remember back in the battle days where you would have a retract file a Light bulb socket of course non polarized l No grounded line cord 1 A nice Chunky pair of battery clamps.
Essentially one hundred watt inconnected volksward and series with the bridge rectifier.
Of course the battery clamps to the Positive and negative output of the verge rectifier.
Is bombay been enclosed or not.
And yes
I won't spell the separate battery charger like This.
Wouldn't be surprised if that Mysterious load of my front box that store my grandparents place Is contains essentially the same circuitry.
And yes Since potentially reference double line isolation Should be treated as though.The battery clamps are alive as long as It has power.
Long go and completely obsolete And not recommended.
They had once when about this time.This would be used that were actually isolated, but back then.The electronics are so expensive even just to add a power transformer.
Fortunately grandpa was using a more modern battery charger back in the day as well lots safer.
But you did actually have a suicide cord on the workbench racquet of the day.
Lil wayne two problem lamp cord with alligator clips.
By the way, I do eventually want to get the cliff quick test with the American wire colors.
I know the rebel and have looked into it.
Wouldn't recommend anyone do this for safety.
And yes, big Clive does have a video on thewhat do you quick test specifically?I do enough repairs and other things.It's worth having for safety
Why the choice of a NiCd battery pack? I thought they were banned due to environmental reasons?
Still used in emergency lighting as they are better suited to higher current trickle charging.
Thats contradictory. Trickle charging isn't high current. Trickle means small.
@@simontay4851 In the case of NiCad cells they seem to tolerate a higher continuous trickle charge. By trickle charging I mean no end of charge control. Just relying on the internal chemical recycling to convert liberated gas back into liquid.
Grandfathered from RoHS thanks to certifications for medical and industrial equipment that require recertification for any design changes. In theory, they could restrict use to legacy designs but that would be difficult to enforce.
The other characteristic of NiCd (particularly flooded NiCd at least) is their superior low temperature performance. I know there was a desire to outlaw them but a successful case was made that there was not an adequate alternative