A-B stuff is isn't worth the money.. We make and package of million dollars worth of beer everyday with clicks and automation direct stuff.. I can have one installed and 2 spares for the cost of one Allen Bradley...
got click managing heat-pump, well pump (where it monitor well water level and water pressure) and through rs232 can see 1wire temps from whole house! And can do a lot more. Still need to program touch color HMI, but can do very fast things very reliable.
Up/Down buttons for speed are bullshit. Ditto for volume in a car. "You know what the customer wants? To complete 20 actions in 20 seconds instead of 1 action in 1 second." Ditto for microwaves. Remember when microwaves were just a dial, that automatically started the machine when you turned it past zero because it correctly presumes you want to heat food right fuckin' now and a few seconds head start is good practice? Nowadays you must use PRECISION control over your food. Dialin' fuckin NORAD launch codes into the machine, 20 digit beep booping horseshit when all I give a fuck about is the nearest 15 seconds.
LOL, i still have one of those. I replaced it with one of those Space Stations. Got really upset a few days later hitting 25 quadzillion buttons just to heat a fucking cup of water. Out of the window and right into the river she went. Put the old one back in. one dial for paua, one for time wich turns it on. thats it and all whats needed.
Strange since every microwave i ever owned has a quickstart button. And if you just push one number, without any other buttons, it also simply starts for that amount of minutes.
Thanks a lot. I’m all messed up. Every time I tighten a screw, nut or bolt, I have to say “click”. I can’t even put the lid back on the peanut butter now.
I've been teaching our techs and salespeople about the drives on our air compressors for almost a decade. Your explanations of drives is great. Technically sound and interesting. Thanks AvE
Hey Ave, at 11:36 those are DBC (direct bonded copper) substrates, which is a copper/ceramic/copper sandwich, where the ceramic is Al2O3 (alumina), maybe toughened with zirconia. It's actually pretty tough stuff, and despite their simplicity, they are very important in the miniaturization of power electronics. The cost of that module from Infineon by itself is a significant chunk of the cost of the whole product. I work as a technology developer engineer in automotive, and because I work on these bastards daily, I can tell you that a lot of work goes into designing them so they can fulfill their lifetime requirements. At least in automotive.
this vijeo is more informative than the module that I did in 3rd year electrical school on VFD's. Nait should pay you to do some vijeos to accompany a bunch of the CBAT Modules, it would better train our trades. You likely already know that most of us 200 lbs gorillas are visual learners, abd those mods don't have many diagrams to show the internals of this stuff.
The little relay @5:26 is for run confirmation or fault status to a PLC or other equipment. It is programmable from the drive to turn on or off according to some condition.
Over the years, I think I've heard you explain AC->Rectified DC->Inverted DC a thousand times... Yet I always watch, might miss another "Canadian wood elf" gem.
They wrap the capacitors before slapping on the goo, else the original sleeve on the capacitor just breaks away and they end up flapping in the breeze. Nothing shady about the wrapping, just extra rigidity
You're the only person that can make pixie wrangling sound appealing to me. Even though some (most, really) of the terms fly over my head, for the first time, this stuff sounds interesting. Should've found this channel when I was in college still trying to graduate on engineering.
That was fun. I happen to be an AB test engineer (well, ok Rockwell Automation, as RA holds onto that AB meatball cause everyone liked it, but it is all RA). A couple things, those 3 white components are not diodes, CT's (Hall effect), that monitor the output phase currents to the motor. The MOV's would be on the input, as I don't believe your would put them on the motor side, but strange that there are 3, since the input is single phase. The rectifier is actually likely built into the IGBT, which they refer to as the powerpack, as it typically contains the "6-pack IGBT's" along with the rectifier diodes, and a single brake IGBT. That relay out be a general purpose relay, that the end user can do for many things, and would be configured through some menu on the drive. They are typically used to connect some type of start/stop circuit. As for not having a real "dial", the user would/could use a simple potentiometer, and the terminal block would provide the low voltage/power reference and the wiper wires back to an analog input. So, you can easily add a simple pot to control speed. This requires programming the drive for the type of control you wanted, which would be VIA an analog input. It is amazing how similar that complete drive looks to the drives I have worked on over the past 30+ years. I guess the use the old adage "Never let another's ideas evade your eyes, plagiarize" ! Thanks for that tear down, it made me almost want to go to work on Monday...
This is a true story. (I will let you decide the veracity of my story.) While working maintenance on wastewater pumping stations, we had a number of Gorman-Rupp pumps with General Electric vari-drive units. Having a problem with one panel, I contacted the original supplier to schedule a repair wizard to help round up the pixies. They sent a fresh faced young man who came into the building and exclaimed when he opened up the panel, "WTF!!! These units are older than I am!!" I then told him if he thought the drives were old, he should check out the stormwater pumps outside. Those beasts are older than me. The poor child didn't understand how we could run equipment on the dark side of a half century. Kids today just don't appreciate quality equipment....
I visited an off-grid bible camp that was an old mining facility in Wenatchee, Washington State. It used a water wheel from the 1930s powered by a tiny stream coming off the mountain. One day while out hiking I saw the door ajar so I peaked in. It was built like a brick shithouse.
I live in a granite producing part of Minnesota and the historical society has a steam derrick and a bunch of other machinery they bust out for special occasions. Well over a century old, after full industrial lifespan, and still working perfectly. You walk up to the stuff and it's just simple and tough. A little TLC and it will be lifting two ton blocks with ease in 2117.
Old but gold , i know becouse we have some old Hyundai inverters @ teh factory and they still kick ass under 10 feet dust , while the new shiny siemens stuff fails under one year or just after warranty goes puff :/
I worked on some really big vfd's 50hp+ and we found that the motor rotor would develop a charge and arc through the bearings eventually wearing them prematurely. We tried ceramic bearings and just ended up using a single brush to ground the rotor and prevent a charge build-up. Made the bearings last alot longer. If i remember correctly this problem only happened on the bigger stuff like 25 hp and up.
Once again you entertain us with showing us stuff pretty much as it happens when you didn't edit out when that circuit board dropped out of the housing and fell on your work table. Oh, and the AvE commentary is what we like too. When talking with my friends I describe you as a crazy Canadian whose mastery of the English language is fraught with extra juice.
My god, you poor bastards over there. In Germany we can order 3 phase from a local electrician. Everyone in Chermany has one of these 3 phase sockets in their homes to power our kitchenovens and electric stoves. But I understand your struggle.
Apologies if this was mentioned by others but if you want to use a VFD to run a 3 phase motor on single phase it’s a good idea to upsize the drive by 1/3rd. Use a 3 hp. drive for a 2 hp. motor, 7.5 hp. drive for a 5hp. motor etc. The diodes in the rectifier section are rated for 3 phase power and will be overloaded when you pull the same amount of power on single phase. Also, the DC bus voltage is lower so the IGBT’s run at a longer duty cycle on single phase. A VFD is not a general purpose inverter! The output is an unfiltered jumble of high frequency pulses that only a motor or a resistive load can handle. If you connect anything with a transformer or capacitor to the output of a VFD the magic smoke will be released. This is important to know if the machine has reversing contactors, brake coils or control transformers. Connect the VFD directly to the motor, only the motor, and keep the wiring as short as possible. Not all motors like to run off of a VFD. Some will heat up. Also, when fed 480 volts 3 phase, the VFD puts out pulses that are close to 1000 volts in amplitude. That’s hard on the insulation of an older motor. That's why they make "inverter rated" motors nowadays. I had a boss - an electrical engineer, no less - that honestly thought VFD’s were perpetual motion machines! Against my advice, he connected a 240 volt VFD to transformers to run a 480 volt motor. The firework were impressive!
AvE, all of these drives support external speed pot control and stop start/fwd rev. I made a custom control panel for my lathe, that way the drive is safely away from the coolant and chips, and I just have robust AB switches and a 10 turn micormeter speed pot. you can get coolant on them all day and they give no shits
Not a bad looking VFD, I run Delta stuff for the most part, but the Hyunyang Inverter drives have proven themselves too, 3Hp one on my turret lathe, 1/2hp on the tire machine. both out in the carport, lots of dust, temp and humidity extremes, still working!
Worked on a land rig as a motorman. When I was in, we'll call it "training". I had the distinct pleasure of putting the second CAT 3512 diesel generator online 180deg out of phase with explosive boot fillin' results.
So Koyo does machine tools on mainland Japan, I had the pleasure of retooling and recontroling one of their twin spindle grinders. It was a badass machine once we got all the American side of things worked out. Held .001mm for hours across hundreds of parts.
that relay you pointed out on the vfd near the opto-couplers is probably for wiring to external relays/ contactors, which would open or close depending if the vfd was in either run or stop, like for external actuators like gate control circuits when the machine is safely stopped.
So, when I was in the Marine Corps we had this device called an MMG-1A. It was a big ass box on 4 wheels which needed a tug to pull it around. We plugged in 120v or 240v AC (there was a strapping board to set it up for the correct input). I can't remember if we used the 60A or 200A cable for input. Anyway, the freaking thing ran a big motor which turned a big generator. The pickups on the generator allowed us to get 120v 400hz 3-phase output. This box you got seems a little more efficient.
Poled AC! What a great way to learn this lesson! I worked with a Sparky in 1997 that blew through 3 controllers by hooking them up wrong. It was funny who caught the blame. He was able to keep his job. It was strange the PLC programmer caught the poop.
Ive programmed alot with yaskawa, danfoss, and ABB drives (favorites in reverse order). The relay usually is used as a dry contact for a progamible purpose. Usually we use it to indicate status.
Those Click PLCs are Sweeeet! a good n cheap intro for those who have never messed with control logic before. They are compact And you can do some pretty cool projects with them.
I use Automation Direct for lots of components. Always been good. Even used their help line once and got good help. I didn't understand something about programing a temperature controller, they got me running quickly. Great web site.
We usually leave them at 2 or 4khz carrier frequency as higher can create reflected wave and more heat in the drive with deratings. Sometimes you have to increase it for high performance servo stuff.
In case no one else has said it, just use a good quality linear potentiometer from the +10v to one of the AI's for a control knob instead of the buttons. Just have to set the AI control reference and not too fast of a ramp time. (like 20-30 seconds) The only inconvenience is that it's not integral to the control panel.
Ha ha holy craper. I have two 3 phase plugs in my house. One out side and 1 in my shop. I had no idea what it was used for so I never used them. Now I know. Thank you!
Ha ha yes I'm lucky. To bad I wasn't smarter and knew how to use everything I own. Thanks to your videos I learned a lot. Including how to properly place units in vices for safe keeping
The relay is direct relay output, a floating switch output with normally closed and normally open contacts for powering a pump, lamp or something else that needs higher power without using a contractor. It is internally programmable to switch on starting the motor, on reaching designated RPM, on braking or some other condition. It can also work as emergency stop.
Just remember that the control side is probably riding on one of the HV power rails, so any oopsie with the control board itself to a ground results in a very very dead control board with most of the teeny tiny parts blown all to smoke, and a very dead drive. Control inputs are isolated, but extend the control panel to remote mount it and that entire board and the cables are essentially connected direct to the mains via a single diode, and any short in the cable or the mounting will result in a bang, especially if the control panel gets any sort of water ( like water based coolant) splashed on it and it gets past the almost non exiting sealing of the front panel.
Interesting vijeo! One thing though about the "confuser/brain-box" and the way they are set up in these devices. The simpler ones uses scalar control without feedback-signal, sometimes referred as Volts/Hz-control. The more advanced drives usually gives additional features that uses feedback, with sensor, or sensorless, to measure motor-RPM (or the "slip"?), and if the confuser finds the rpm have dropped due to motor-load, the confuser can in real time adjust (increase) the output frequency to compensate for the decreased rpm. Within the margin the motor can handle off course, heat is always the enemy... I don't know much about VFD:s, but i own a small British Lathe like you, but mine is a Myford ML7, smaller than the Boxford, and I plan to buy a VDF to the 0,37kW 3phase ABB induction motor to be able to drive it on single phase 230VAC (Standard in Sweden), and to control the speed slightly when chatter occurs when turning metal...
Wanna really feel like the future's here? Li'l Chickadee only has to live past, what, 85 years or so and she'll get to see the year 2100. I had this revelation about my little tike a few weeks back and it blew my mind.
I have no clue about half the stuff you're talking about but I like your channel! Ha ha maybe someday I'll know, I really find this type of stuff fascinating!
in toyota ac forklifts, we use three mosfets to change a dc power source into a three phase ac power output. as someone who wants to build an automated off grid house, id think this would have a great potential.
@4:30 Quartz vibrates when electricity is applied to it. The frequency of the oscillation can be adjusted by machining the quarts to a specific shape. Proper timing is achieved when two capacitors are go through charging and discharging cycles and keep the quartz oscillator locked at that frequency.
FYI, that relay you thought was for power switching is for status output. It's connected to terminals R1O/R1C/R1, and there are probably options in the drive setup menu to configure it for fault, run status, etc. I'm not familiar with this specific drive, but nearly every one I've worked with has similar capability.
You can configure the drive to vary the speed based on a signal you provide. You dont have to only use the buttons on the keypad. The Durapulse drives are really easy to configure how you want.
For those of you unsure if it's worth it over a cheap eBay item. Things I like about this drive over mine: Many more digital inputs. Ground lugs on BOTH the input and output sides. Nice holes for cables. No fan! Not sure it's worth three times the price, but in retrospect, I might have swung a few more bucks.
3phase is a normal thing in Denmark! Back in the days our stoves runs on 3phase and so did washingmachine and dryer 😋 nowadays the energy classification makes it run on 1phase 😋
Hey AvE, long time lurker, first time poster here. My grandpa and I are big fans. I'm reaching out in hopes that you could both make a neat video and help me, and maybe some others out a bit. I noticed in one of your recent videos you were showing interest in doing some videos on simple circuits/arduinos and such, and I got an idea for you. My grandpa worked as a greasemonkey for case construction equipment for longer than fire has existed, and seeing as he's been ridden hard and put away wet in his 70 odd years of bumblefuckery his hearing ain't what it used to be. His hearing aid that he's had for as long as I can remember finally bit the dust last month. Whilst shopping around for a new one (it's not covered under his health insurance) we realized quickly that even the chinesium models are ($$$)^2 levels of expensive. The other day we were out pigging out on italian food and I got to wondering if it were possible to build a hearing aid out of an arduino and some headphones. So first thing I did was hop on the smartphone and look for an "app for that", low and behold I found an app called fennex, plugged in my headphones, and passed it to the old man. He got real quiet real quick; turns out the dinky little free app, a decent pair of headphones, and an iphone was performing better than his old hearing aid ever could. Fuck yea, proof of concept confirmed so I hopped on the gargler and promptly found a DIY guide on a home made hearing aid. Only problem is that seeing as I'm just a wee clipboard warrior in training, the schematics for the circuitry are a few standard deviations above my pay grade. What I'd really like to do is be able to use the guide's provided schematic and ship it off to get a 1 off prototype PCB printed to maximize portability for him to carry around when all is said and done, but I got no clue how to interpret the PCB manufacturer's parameters and how to apply them to the schematic I have available. So to wrap up I guess I'm just looking for someone somewhere to have any kinda clue on how a 100% novice like me could begin tackling a project like this. Any info/help from you, a viewer, the wife, dewclaw, the dog, ANYONE, would be appreciated beyond measure. Thanks, Uncle Willy P.S. A link to the guide I found with schematics and all can be provided on request as I wish to avoid any youtube auto-moderator bots flagging the comment as spam for including a link to an outside web page.
The Danfoss mess the bed every brownout we get. Been switching them out with ABB with no regrets. My guys know how to program the ABB, too, which makes a difference in getting them up and running.
We have 240v for normal stuff and 380v for the electric cooking plate. Had a elecchicken come over and hooked up 380v for the garage aswell. So thats good for a mill and lathe right?
The click with the programming adapters and such are a common requirement for PLC programming classes. The software is pretty elegant in a basic way as well. No shit to confuse you, but like everything there is a learning curve (I.e, the tricks to make it work with minimal ladder rungs).
If you're lucky you can get a single phase mill. The Bridgeport I got came out of a machinists house so he had it all set for single phase 220v, works like a charm!
Holy shit, I generally try not to entertain myself at the expense of another man's misery, but that was comedy gold! You're in mid sentence talking about how you'd like to preserve it, and it fucks right off into a low Earth orbit on you. It might make me feel a little less guilty about laughing if you sent me a shirt or something. 🤣
Ave the reason for the different sized capacitors might have to do with their frequency response. Usually the smaller ones can operate to a higher frequency. So the big capacitors store more energy for the inverter and the smaller one clamps down the higher frequency transience.
I know exactly what it feels like to unexpectedly melt a chunk of metal at high voltage 5 inches from your retinas. "Filling your boots" is the correct description.
Those things you indicate are diodes at 6:00 are actually the current sense transformers for the output. I have a feeling the diodes are in with the IGBTs in that big package underneath.
FYI, Renesas is NEC. Well what used to be NEC's microcontroller and chip business, spun off into its own brand. They are big in the automotive industry, they are surprisingly actually the largest selling microcontroller brand in the world.
Someone else might’ve posted this, or ya maybe already fingered it out, but.... That relay controls the “R1O” “R1C” & “R1” terminals. “R1O” = Open. “R1C” = Closed. “R1” = common. Typically used for a safety interlock or sometimes a 120VAC “Power” light or such. Thanks for vid! That is a really good price for a 1 to 3 phase VFD. I’ll have to remember this next time a customer only has single phase service.
No, the IGBT's are turning on and off rapidly using a PWM(Pulse Width Modulation) to create an average voltage that matches the sinusoidal waveform. www.vfds.org/vfd-pwm-waveform-762549.html
i not sure how it works or how much it is in Canada but in the states at least in maryland where im from its pretty cheap to just have 3 phase ran to your home/work area. great video i love them all. thanks for what you do man. long time watcher.
Depends on how far away you are from a 3 phase power line. You might have been lucky. In canada as in the US the cost is the cost of them running it to your house.
Beware those sine wave filtering caps! To date my biggest ever bang was recommissioning on an 800kW inverter that had been dormant for 11 mths soaking up all the lovely UK air juice it could find. I now tell customers to run a slow gradient for at least a day when bringing cold/wet power electronicary back to life. Current record is 26 x 2500kW running in a substation battery storage system swinging + to - in 800ms :)
"Per my usual disposition I'm trying to be ginger with this because I want to use it..." Simultaneously turns the housing and the PCB falls out. In stitches over here
Renesas in a Japanese designed piece of kit is exactly what I would expect. Renesas pretty much owns the Japanese auto MCU industry. While worldwide they are not as known as say ST or TI, in Japan they are on parts or better.
I remember my dad making 3 phase converters just using capacitor banking. Take 50 er so never counted. But would run one motor. Last one he built ran a 20hp 3ph motor for my uncles feed mill. Cause it was cheaper at the time anyway then buying two 10 hp motors.
We use clicks on many machines... The Allen Bradley stuff is extremely expensive..
You are now my official "I got a guy" guy. Low places what what.
Ahh yes, Allen Bradley - "You might find better, but you'll never pay more."
A-B stuff is isn't worth the money..
We make and package of million dollars worth of beer everyday with clicks and automation direct stuff.. I can have one installed and 2 spares for the cost of one Allen Bradley...
WezleyB yeah but it won’t have that Allen Bradley nameplate! /s
got click managing heat-pump, well pump (where it monitor well water level and water pressure) and through rs232 can see 1wire temps from whole house! And can do a lot more. Still need to program touch color HMI, but can do very fast things very reliable.
Up/Down buttons for speed are bullshit. Ditto for volume in a car. "You know what the customer wants? To complete 20 actions in 20 seconds instead of 1 action in 1 second." Ditto for microwaves. Remember when microwaves were just a dial, that automatically started the machine when you turned it past zero because it correctly presumes you want to heat food right fuckin' now and a few seconds head start is good practice? Nowadays you must use PRECISION control over your food. Dialin' fuckin NORAD launch codes into the machine, 20 digit beep booping horseshit when all I give a fuck about is the nearest 15 seconds.
LOL, i still have one of those. I replaced it with one of those Space Stations. Got really upset a few days later hitting 25 quadzillion buttons just to heat a fucking cup of water. Out of the window and right into the river she went.
Put the old one back in. one dial for paua, one for time wich turns it on. thats it and all whats needed.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Strange since every microwave i ever owned has a quickstart button. And if you just push one number, without any other buttons, it also simply starts for that amount of minutes.
Its funny that despite all the UX design wanks agreeing with you, mofos keep producing shitty interfaces.
Update your microwave. They have a sensor heat button and that's the only button I've ever pressed on it except for when I set the clock.
Thanks a lot. I’m all messed up. Every time I tighten a screw, nut or bolt, I have to say “click”. I can’t even put the lid back on the peanut butter now.
The click is the sound of the thread stripping. Back it off a quarter turn. 😋
I thought it was a click from a torque wrench.
old fashioned torque wrench
Give'r hell, when the elbow pops, the crankin' stops.
Sinn you innocent sweet summer child
EVERYTHING is a torque wrench ;)
I've been teaching our techs and salespeople about the drives on our air compressors for almost a decade. Your explanations of drives is great. Technically sound and interesting. Thanks AvE
You should do a walk through of the wall of shame. I'm willing to bet there's some good stories in there.
Hey Ave, at 11:36 those are DBC (direct bonded copper) substrates, which is a copper/ceramic/copper sandwich, where the ceramic is Al2O3 (alumina), maybe toughened with zirconia. It's actually pretty tough stuff, and despite their simplicity, they are very important in the miniaturization of power electronics. The cost of that module from Infineon by itself is a significant chunk of the cost of the whole product. I work as a technology developer engineer in automotive, and because I work on these bastards daily, I can tell you that a lot of work goes into designing them so they can fulfill their lifetime requirements. At least in automotive.
this vijeo is more informative than the module that I did in 3rd year electrical school on VFD's.
Nait should pay you to do some vijeos to accompany a bunch of the CBAT Modules, it would better train our trades.
You likely already know that most of us 200 lbs gorillas are visual learners, abd those mods don't have many diagrams to show the internals of this stuff.
The little relay @5:26 is for run confirmation or fault status to a PLC or other equipment. It is programmable from the drive to turn on or off according to some condition.
Over the years, I think I've heard you explain AC->Rectified DC->Inverted DC a thousand times... Yet I always watch, might miss another "Canadian wood elf" gem.
They wrap the capacitors before slapping on the goo, else the original sleeve on the capacitor just breaks away and they end up flapping in the breeze. Nothing shady about the wrapping, just extra rigidity
You're the only person that can make pixie wrangling sound appealing to me. Even though some (most, really) of the terms fly over my head, for the first time, this stuff sounds interesting. Should've found this channel when I was in college still trying to graduate on engineering.
Gotta hear the story about that brass lug.
"Use it again" click clank click click as all the parts fall out.... love it
That was fun. I happen to be an AB test engineer (well, ok Rockwell Automation, as RA holds onto that AB meatball cause everyone liked it, but it is all RA).
A couple things, those 3 white components are not diodes, CT's (Hall effect), that monitor the output phase currents to the motor. The MOV's would be on the input, as I don't believe your would put them on the motor side, but strange that there are 3, since the input is single phase.
The rectifier is actually likely built into the IGBT, which they refer to as the powerpack, as it typically contains the "6-pack IGBT's" along with the rectifier diodes, and a single brake IGBT.
That relay out be a general purpose relay, that the end user can do for many things, and would be configured through some menu on the drive. They are typically used to connect some type of start/stop circuit.
As for not having a real "dial", the user would/could use a simple potentiometer, and the terminal block would provide the low voltage/power reference and the wiper wires back to an analog input. So, you can easily add a simple pot to control speed. This requires programming the drive for the type of control you wanted, which would be VIA an analog input.
It is amazing how similar that complete drive looks to the drives I have worked on over the past 30+ years. I guess the use the old adage "Never let another's ideas evade your eyes, plagiarize" !
Thanks for that tear down, it made me almost want to go to work on Monday...
you got me looking up VFDs and yet the biggest motor in the house is my hairdryer...
You can run compressors and blowers on them. HVAC, fridges, etc
This is a true story. (I will let you decide the veracity of my story.)
While working maintenance on wastewater pumping stations, we had a number of Gorman-Rupp pumps with General Electric vari-drive units. Having a problem with one panel, I contacted the original supplier to schedule a repair wizard to help round up the pixies. They sent a fresh faced young man who came into the building and exclaimed when he opened up the panel, "WTF!!! These units are older than I am!!"
I then told him if he thought the drives were old, he should check out the stormwater pumps outside. Those beasts are older than me. The poor child didn't understand how we could run equipment on the dark side of a half century. Kids today just don't appreciate quality equipment....
I visited an off-grid bible camp that was an old mining facility in Wenatchee, Washington State. It used a water wheel from the 1930s powered by a tiny stream coming off the mountain. One day while out hiking I saw the door ajar so I peaked in. It was built like a brick shithouse.
I live in a granite producing part of Minnesota and the historical society has a steam derrick and a bunch of other machinery they bust out for special occasions. Well over a century old, after full industrial lifespan, and still working perfectly. You walk up to the stuff and it's just simple and tough. A little TLC and it will be lifting two ton blocks with ease in 2117.
IanCaine4728 I don't think you will be witnessing it but maybe you folks out there live longer than us folks in New England.
Gang Of Four That would put me on Santa's naughty list. And I really want a chemistry set this Christmas. Or a Red Rider b-b gun.
Old but gold , i know becouse we have some old Hyundai inverters @ teh factory and they still kick ass under 10 feet dust , while the new shiny siemens stuff fails under one year or just after warranty goes puff :/
I worked on some really big vfd's 50hp+ and we found that the motor rotor would develop a charge and arc through the bearings eventually wearing them prematurely. We tried ceramic bearings and just ended up using a single brush to ground the rotor and prevent a charge build-up. Made the bearings last alot longer. If i remember correctly this problem only happened on the bigger stuff like 25 hp and up.
Once again you entertain us with showing us stuff pretty much as it happens when you didn't edit out when that circuit board dropped out of the housing and fell on your work table. Oh, and the AvE commentary is what we like too. When talking with my friends I describe you as a crazy Canadian whose mastery of the English language is fraught with extra juice.
My god, you poor bastards over there. In Germany we can order 3 phase from a local electrician. Everyone in Chermany has one of these 3 phase sockets in their homes to power our kitchenovens and electric stoves. But I understand your struggle.
Im in portugal, i got triphase and my dad had to do was call the power company and say "hey i want 3 phase"
Same for Austria, three phase is standard. Who doesn't love 230V 32 amps worth of angry pixies.
wait only 32A? I live in a 23sqm apparment and have 3x230v 40A for my appartment
jipp...close to everyone in Bratwurst Heaven has 3-PH it´s fucking awesome. But a VFD still is praktical. Like for my 40Jeeehaw old Lathe.
dumle29 40 fucking amps? lol I'm living in a 60sqm apartment and have 3x 230V/32A. Even the meter isn't rated higher
Apologies if this was mentioned by others but if you want to use a VFD to run a 3 phase motor on single phase it’s a good idea to upsize the drive by 1/3rd. Use a 3 hp. drive for a 2 hp. motor, 7.5 hp. drive for a 5hp. motor etc. The diodes in the rectifier section are rated for 3 phase power and will be overloaded when you pull the same amount of power on single phase. Also, the DC bus voltage is lower so the IGBT’s run at a longer duty cycle on single phase.
A VFD is not a general purpose inverter! The output is an unfiltered jumble of high frequency pulses that only a motor or a resistive load can handle. If you connect anything with a transformer or capacitor to the output of a VFD the magic smoke will be released. This is important to know if the machine has reversing contactors, brake coils or control transformers. Connect the VFD directly to the motor, only the motor, and keep the wiring as short as possible.
Not all motors like to run off of a VFD. Some will heat up. Also, when fed 480 volts 3 phase, the VFD puts out pulses that are close to 1000 volts in amplitude. That’s hard on the insulation of an older motor. That's why they make "inverter rated" motors nowadays.
I had a boss - an electrical engineer, no less - that honestly thought VFD’s were perpetual motion machines! Against my advice, he connected a 240 volt VFD to transformers to run a 480 volt motor. The firework were impressive!
"We are livin' in the future, I'll tell you how I know, I read it in the paper, 15 years ago." John Prine
actually we timetravel. every second we are one second in the future :P
AvE, all of these drives support external speed pot control and stop start/fwd rev. I made a custom control panel for my lathe, that way the drive is safely away from the coolant and chips, and I just have robust AB switches and a 10 turn micormeter speed pot. you can get coolant on them all day and they give no shits
Not a bad looking VFD, I run Delta stuff for the most part, but the Hyunyang Inverter drives have proven themselves too, 3Hp one on my turret lathe, 1/2hp on the tire machine. both out in the carport, lots of dust, temp and humidity extremes, still working!
Worked on a land rig as a motorman. When I was in, we'll call it "training". I had the distinct pleasure of putting the second CAT 3512 diesel generator online 180deg out of phase with explosive boot fillin' results.
@3:30 is the best unintentional slapstick I have ever seen!
The amount of badassery in this video is just awesome. Keep the industrial type stuff coming....hydraulics, pneumatics and PLC's
So Koyo does machine tools on mainland Japan, I had the pleasure of retooling and recontroling one of their twin spindle grinders. It was a badass machine once we got all the American side of things worked out. Held .001mm for hours across hundreds of parts.
that relay you pointed out on the vfd near the opto-couplers is probably for wiring to external relays/ contactors, which would open or close depending if the vfd was in either run or stop, like for external actuators like gate control circuits when the machine is safely stopped.
Finally , rescued from the deserted island of residential single phase.Thank you AvE
Love the Beasie Boys, Johnny Ryall reference. AvE you are awesome! I mean, you were awesome before that, now you're just awesomer.
So, when I was in the Marine Corps we had this device called an MMG-1A. It was a big ass box on 4 wheels which needed a tug to pull it around. We plugged in 120v or 240v AC (there was a strapping board to set it up for the correct input). I can't remember if we used the 60A or 200A cable for input. Anyway, the freaking thing ran a big motor which turned a big generator. The pickups on the generator allowed us to get 120v 400hz 3-phase output. This box you got seems a little more efficient.
Poled AC! What a great way to learn this lesson! I worked with a Sparky in 1997 that blew through 3 controllers by hooking them up wrong. It was funny who caught the blame. He was able to keep his job. It was strange the PLC programmer caught the poop.
Is that one cap smaller because of the finger hole thingie in the plastic cover? I swear it fit in solidworks!
Ive programmed alot with yaskawa, danfoss, and ABB drives (favorites in reverse order). The relay usually is used as a dry contact for a progamible purpose. Usually we use it to indicate status.
Those Click PLCs are Sweeeet! a good n cheap intro for those who have never messed with control logic before. They are compact And you can do some pretty cool projects with them.
I use Automation Direct for lots of components. Always been good. Even used their help line once and got good help. I didn't
understand something about programing a temperature controller, they got me running quickly. Great web site.
We usually leave them at 2 or 4khz carrier frequency as higher can create reflected wave and more heat in the drive with deratings. Sometimes you have to increase it for high performance servo stuff.
In case no one else has said it, just use a good quality linear potentiometer from the +10v to one of the AI's for a control knob instead of the buttons. Just have to set the AI control reference and not too fast of a ramp time. (like 20-30 seconds) The only inconvenience is that it's not integral to the control panel.
Yeah I need a mill and a lathe.
So do I, but do I value my life more as my wife would kill me? But then again........... 😂
Ha ha holy craper. I have two 3 phase plugs in my house. One out side and 1 in my shop. I had no idea what it was used for so I never used them. Now I know. Thank you!
#lifegoal I need a mill and lathe
Lucky bastard!
Ha ha yes I'm lucky. To bad I wasn't smarter and knew how to use everything I own. Thanks to your videos I learned a lot. Including how to properly place units in vices for safe keeping
John Kelleher My kind of remodeling.
It's on the outside of the house under the car port.
The relay is direct relay output, a floating switch output with normally closed and normally open contacts for powering a pump, lamp or something else that needs higher power without using a contractor. It is internally programmable to switch on starting the motor, on reaching designated RPM, on braking or some other condition. It can also work as emergency stop.
Just remember that the control side is probably riding on one of the HV power rails, so any oopsie with the control board itself to a ground results in a very very dead control board with most of the teeny tiny parts blown all to smoke, and a very dead drive. Control inputs are isolated, but extend the control panel to remote mount it and that entire board and the cables are essentially connected direct to the mains via a single diode, and any short in the cable or the mounting will result in a bang, especially if the control panel gets any sort of water ( like water based coolant) splashed on it and it gets past the almost non exiting sealing of the front panel.
Ginger Carefuling strikes again!
Interesting vijeo! One thing though about the "confuser/brain-box" and the way they are set up in these devices. The simpler ones uses scalar control without feedback-signal, sometimes referred as Volts/Hz-control. The more advanced drives usually gives additional features that uses feedback, with sensor, or sensorless, to measure motor-RPM (or the "slip"?), and if the confuser finds the rpm have dropped due to motor-load, the confuser can in real time adjust (increase) the output frequency to compensate for the decreased rpm.
Within the margin the motor can handle off course, heat is always the enemy...
I don't know much about VFD:s, but i own a small British Lathe like you, but mine is a Myford ML7, smaller than the Boxford, and I plan to buy a VDF to the 0,37kW 3phase ABB induction motor to be able to drive it on single phase 230VAC (Standard in Sweden), and to control the speed slightly when chatter occurs when turning metal...
My Allen Bradley VFD was made in 1988. I guess that's something like going back to the future :)
I work around SCADA and plc's, it would be great to see more vids on this type of hardware.
Wanna really feel like the future's here? Li'l Chickadee only has to live past, what, 85 years or so and she'll get to see the year 2100. I had this revelation about my little tike a few weeks back and it blew my mind.
I have no clue about half the stuff you're talking about but I like your channel! Ha ha maybe someday I'll know, I really find this type of stuff fascinating!
Good , back of the class, PLC rundown. I've been waiting.
3:24 I almost cried hahahaha
in toyota ac forklifts, we use three mosfets to change a dc power source into a three phase ac power output. as someone who wants to build an automated off grid house, id think this would have a great potential.
@4:30 Quartz vibrates when electricity is applied to it. The frequency of the oscillation can be adjusted by machining the quarts to a specific shape. Proper timing is achieved when two capacitors are go through charging and discharging cycles and keep the quartz oscillator locked at that frequency.
“I’m hoping to use this....CRASH... FUCK”
This here is the story of my life.
I have no idea what he’s talking about but I enjoy watching
FYI, that relay you thought was for power switching is for status output. It's connected to terminals R1O/R1C/R1, and there are probably options in the drive setup menu to configure it for fault, run status, etc. I'm not familiar with this specific drive, but nearly every one I've worked with has similar capability.
Automation Destruct! The price is right. I just finished commissioning a $120,000 hot standby M580 - that's industrial for you.
I love 3 phase. If you wire it wrong, just switch any two of the leads and it works.
You can configure the drive to vary the speed based on a signal you provide. You dont have to only use the buttons on the keypad. The Durapulse drives are really easy to configure how you want.
For those of you unsure if it's worth it over a cheap eBay item. Things I like about this drive over mine: Many more digital inputs. Ground lugs on BOTH the input and output sides. Nice holes for cables. No fan! Not sure it's worth three times the price, but in retrospect, I might have swung a few more bucks.
Thanks for doing a video on this, it's nice that you actually listen to your fans! (Btw I'm not even sure if u saw my comment, but if u did thanks :P)
3phase is a normal thing in Denmark! Back in the days our stoves runs on 3phase and so did washingmachine and dryer 😋 nowadays the energy classification makes it run on 1phase 😋
Hey AvE, long time lurker, first time poster here. My grandpa and I are big fans.
I'm reaching out in hopes that you could both make a neat video and help me, and maybe some others out a bit. I noticed in one of your recent videos you were showing interest in doing some videos on simple circuits/arduinos and such, and I got an idea for you.
My grandpa worked as a greasemonkey for case construction equipment for longer than fire has existed, and seeing as he's been ridden hard and put away wet in his 70 odd years of bumblefuckery his hearing ain't what it used to be. His hearing aid that he's had for as long as I can remember finally bit the dust last month. Whilst shopping around for a new one (it's not covered under his health insurance) we realized quickly that even the chinesium models are ($$$)^2 levels of expensive.
The other day we were out pigging out on italian food and I got to wondering if it were possible to build a hearing aid out of an arduino and some headphones. So first thing I did was hop on the smartphone and look for an "app for that", low and behold I found an app called fennex, plugged in my headphones, and passed it to the old man. He got real quiet real quick; turns out the dinky little free app, a decent pair of headphones, and an iphone was performing better than his old hearing aid ever could.
Fuck yea, proof of concept confirmed so I hopped on the gargler and promptly found a DIY guide on a home made hearing aid. Only problem is that seeing as I'm just a wee clipboard warrior in training, the schematics for the circuitry are a few standard deviations above my pay grade. What I'd really like to do is be able to use the guide's provided schematic and ship it off to get a 1 off prototype PCB printed to maximize portability for him to carry around when all is said and done, but I got no clue how to interpret the PCB manufacturer's parameters and how to apply them to the schematic I have available.
So to wrap up I guess I'm just looking for someone somewhere to have any kinda clue on how a 100% novice like me could begin tackling a project like this. Any info/help from you, a viewer, the wife, dewclaw, the dog, ANYONE, would be appreciated beyond measure.
Thanks,
Uncle Willy
P.S. A link to the guide I found with schematics and all can be provided on request as I wish to avoid any youtube auto-moderator bots flagging the comment as spam for including a link to an outside web page.
Just buy the old man a second-hand iPhone.
The Danfoss mess the bed every brownout we get. Been switching them out with ABB with no regrets. My guys know how to program the ABB, too, which makes a difference in getting them up and running.
first of all I want to say that you have one hundred percent of my respect and why where you not my teacher in school
We have 240v for normal stuff and 380v for the electric cooking plate. Had a elecchicken come over and hooked up 380v for the garage aswell. So thats good for a mill and lathe right?
Thought the thumbnail was the underside of a guitar pickup for a second. Either was Rock On AvE!
The click with the programming adapters and such are a common requirement for PLC programming classes.
The software is pretty elegant in a basic way as well. No shit to confuse you, but like everything there is a learning curve (I.e, the tricks to make it work with minimal ladder rungs).
If you're lucky you can get a single phase mill. The Bridgeport I got came out of a machinists house so he had it all set for single phase 220v, works like a charm!
The relay is for switching outside of the VFD such as a contactor for releasing the brake on a brake motor.
very keen to see this thing being wired up!
Looks like the one capacitor is shorter to accommodate the hole used to remove the remote.
Holy shit, I generally try not to entertain myself at the expense of another man's misery, but that was comedy gold! You're in mid sentence talking about how you'd like to preserve it, and it fucks right off into a low Earth orbit on you. It might make me feel a little less guilty about laughing if you sent me a shirt or something. 🤣
Ave the reason for the different sized capacitors might have to do with their frequency response. Usually the smaller ones can operate to a higher frequency. So the big capacitors store more energy for the inverter and the smaller one clamps down the higher frequency transience.
That’s CooL 😎
Now start thinking about getting a large three phase motor for to start making a “real three phase”
I've always wondered why there are little sharpie markings on top of the electrolytic caps?
I learn to program koyos at school since a ton of my area uses them. They are fun.
I know exactly what it feels like to unexpectedly melt a chunk of metal at high voltage 5 inches from your retinas. "Filling your boots" is the correct description.
very nice. ordered that shirt of yours. very nice too. MOAR VIDS PLEASE.
AvE is a youtube GOD. A guy you could drink beers with.
Those things you indicate are diodes at 6:00 are actually the current sense transformers for the output. I have a feeling the diodes are in with the IGBTs in that big package underneath.
FYI, Renesas is NEC. Well what used to be NEC's microcontroller and chip business, spun off into its own brand.
They are big in the automotive industry, they are surprisingly actually the largest selling microcontroller brand in the world.
Someone else might’ve posted this, or ya maybe already fingered it out, but....
That relay controls the “R1O” “R1C” & “R1” terminals. “R1O” = Open. “R1C” = Closed. “R1” = common. Typically used for a safety interlock or sometimes a 120VAC “Power” light or such.
Thanks for vid! That is a really good price for a 1 to 3 phase VFD. I’ll have to remember this next time a customer only has single phase service.
My father bought a 3-in-1lathe from Smithy Tools, its not the biggest or best quality but they get the job done, and they are single phase 110V/240V
Been wih *AvE* for a while now, funny how my mind just translates the _slang_ now.
i think they build the 3 phase from the caps, using hunting oscillation, so the IGBTs are actually cutting current to create the oscillation output.
No, the IGBT's are turning on and off rapidly using a PWM(Pulse Width Modulation) to create an average voltage that matches the sinusoidal waveform.
www.vfds.org/vfd-pwm-waveform-762549.html
Very much looking forward to 3 phase inductive motor wire identification!
i not sure how it works or how much it is in Canada but in the states at least in maryland where im from its pretty cheap to just have 3 phase ran to your home/work area. great video i love them all. thanks for what you do man. long time watcher.
Depends on how far away you are from a 3 phase power line. You might have been lucky. In canada as in the US the cost is the cost of them running it to your house.
Beware those sine wave filtering caps! To date my biggest ever bang was recommissioning on an 800kW inverter that had been dormant for 11 mths soaking up all the lovely UK air juice it could find. I now tell customers to run a slow gradient for at least a day when bringing cold/wet power electronicary back to life. Current record is 26 x 2500kW running in a substation battery storage system swinging + to - in 800ms :)
Frigging amazing stuff I must have for no apparent reason.
All of the vfds at work are allen bradley, still dont know how they work all I do is reset the things lol
I don't care as long if the client pays, we install everything (Danfoss/Siemens/ABB/AB/...).
We've got Danfoss vfds. I'd love to take one A-part, but the boss would kill me if the toxic gases no longer being vented didn't get me first.
"...knows the time..."
"...fresh Gucci watch..."
Yer tha coolest in my book. Siting my favorite Beastie track!
"Per my usual disposition I'm trying to be ginger with this because I want to use it..."
Simultaneously turns the housing and the PCB falls out.
In stitches over here
As always; ❤️ your local Mechanical Engineerd, who was stoned in the back of the class but somehow made it thru. Jokes on them hahaha
You channeled your inner linusTechTips and dropped a new piece of expensive electronics!
Renesas in a Japanese designed piece of kit is exactly what I would expect. Renesas pretty much owns the Japanese auto MCU industry. While worldwide they are not as known as say ST or TI, in Japan they are on parts or better.
I remember my dad making 3 phase converters just using capacitor banking. Take 50 er so never counted. But would run one motor. Last one he built ran a 20hp 3ph motor for my uncles feed mill. Cause it was cheaper at the time anyway then buying two 10 hp motors.
Nice subtle Beastie Boys reference there.
Fun fact: Here in Straya, many private houses have three phase.
My antiquated dwelling has 2 out of the 3.
Gold from day one who knew
Gold I seen GOLD! right next to the saber tooth skull