I bought one from you guys a while back and have since installed one in every studio. When time is money, these patchbays are just a nobrainer. May not appeal to small production studios with a small amount of gear to connect, but to any studio that is being run as a business these are essential tools. I know myself I can get much more work done in a day by using one.
The Patch seems like a super useful tool for those of us using lots of outboard gear (along with Session Recall). However, my main hesitation with the Patch is that I've never really seen a definitive answer on how the "patch" between components is made without degrading or altering the signal. Some say they hear no degredation at all and other say that its just not suitable for mastering. I have yet to test one myself, but since I'm strictly mastering, I'll probably end up going with a relay-based insert switcher like the Dangerous Liason just to be on the safe side.
@@audiokemestry If you don’t need a lot of connectivity, a Liaison or similar product may work for you. However we have a lot of mastering engineers using PATCH and even with their ears they are not complaining about any issue with their sound since installing it. You raise an interesting question, and we will investigate to learn if there is any truth to your concern!
Nice one! Just got a flock and wondering about all the outputs inputs and outboard gear that won't fit in the flock. I could by more flocks, but can't afford that, so what could be a good way to do this; incorporating manual patchbays with the flock for instance. How would you do that?
There is no brilliant way of doing this really, as it always comes with some level of compromise. I'll try to explain as best I can: If you have a PATCH, you have 32 ins and 32 outs. Let's say you have an audio interface with 8 i/o. That would leave 24i/o on the PATCH. Then you add 8 pieces of stereo outboard to the PATCH, leaving 8i/o. You can add a "regular" patchbay to this, connecting via that spare 8i/o. However, this creates 2 issues: firstly it greatly overlooks the whole point of having the Flock in the first place in that it's completely controllable and recallable digitally, and secondly that you are bottlenecked by the channel count of the daisy-chained patchbays. You will not be able to get more than 8 mono or 4 stereo channels from that extra patchbay at a time. It's even worse if you need to go back and forth between multiple units.... The true answer here is to calculate you I/O and buy the correct Flock for your needs. Yes, the VT and XT are exponentially more expensive but they are also the units that this kind of connectivity becomes even more useful with. Genuinely i've had customers grumble about the price but once they've had the VT or XT for a week they ALWAYS call me with a huge smile, telling me how it's pretty much the best purchase they've ever made. The biggest challenge I have to sell these units is getting across to end users just how life changing these units can be.
Great question! You can absolutely use a product like the Orion 32 to achieve a similar workflow. However, there is a horrible drawback to doing that. Let's assume you connect all your gear to the Orion 32 in a similar fashion to the Flock Patch. If you want to run audio through any three pieces of gear, for example, you will send your audio through six stages of AD/DA conversion to do so. Here's an example audio chain: every time you see the word "interface" a conversion process has happened. Interface Out -> GEAR 1 -> Interface In -> Interface Out -> GEAR 2 -> Interface In -> Interface Out -> GEAR 3 -> Interface In Sadly with a product like the Orion 32 this is going to horribly degrade the audio quality by the time it arrives back in your DAW. Imagine, now we increase the number a little, going through 5 pieces of gear - this results in TEN stages of conversion. In fact, this process is not desirable at all, because it is good practice to perform as few AD/DA conversions as possible while mixing with analogue gear, as there is no such thing as a "perfect" converter (although some come very close!); the more conversions you do, the more of the original audio data is going to be lost in the conversion process. With the Flock Patch, the audio leaves your converter once, runs through any of your gear in any order you wish, maintaining a FULLY ANALOGUE signal path the entire time, then re-enters your converter once. This results in the minimum possible degradation to your audio while mixing. Keep an eye on this channel and be sure to subscribe, as we are currently working on an "ultimate converter shootout" video which will be extremely eye-opening as to which brands are making the most accurate converters, and demonstrate the degradation that occurs when doing something like using the Orion 32 as a patchbay.
Let me get this right: As EXPENSIVE as a Flock system is... They have the Audacity to charge a Premium for an app that gives you color coding and photos?!
You could choose to look at this from another angle... The PATCH is not an expensive product if you are a professional where time = money. The PATCH will save you many, many hours of recall time each week and as such will pay for itself extremely quickly. Also, you don't REQUIRE the premium version of the app to use the PATCH. It comes with a free version that is by no means limited; everything that is vital is covered by that and I demonstrate this in the video. You would only choose the premium app (which is not expensive!) if you want or need the extra features it offers. You are not obliged to pay anything extra. You CAN, if you want the extra features, which cost Flock a not-insignificant amount of extra expense in development. There are a few features that I didn't mention in the video for the sake of keeping it relatively clear and not too confusing; firstly the DX Bridge Plugin which auto-recalls the mix from your DAW session when you open it, and also an iOS app that you can use to control the PATCH from your iPhone or Ipad. These things unfortunately have ongoing costs to maintain because of constant updates to software, both DAW and OS. If you feel the PATCH is expensive, it's probably because you wouldn't benefit from it in your situation and that's totally cool - like many products out there it's not designed to be the perfect solution for everyone, but there are certainly many people who could benefit from it and thousands who already do.
quality comes at a price, just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean its overpriced. its like any other tool for pros, if you find the value in owning it and it saves you money, its worth the investment. I started with 1 and now own 3 of them. worth every penny imo.
Knowing a little about the technology it takes to actually achieve what Flock have done here, i'm not entirely sure it CAN be done much cheaper, if at all - otherwise Flock would probably have done so already. They aren't charging this money because they want to - the cost of the components, plus the development involved here, is not insignificant and the Pro Audio market is extremely competitive. In the PATCH, you're looking at every single connector point being able to route and connect to every other point, which means at least 1024 internal connections, all of which must be remotely digitally switchable and controllable from the software, which is managed in the UI by simply dragging an icon. It's a true feat of engineering and not as simple as it outwardly seems which itself is testament to just how well Flock have done in it's implementation. Having worked with Flock since they launch the first PATCH product, we are well aware just how hard Flock have worked to develop this product. For the record, in the PATCH XT there are at least 9216 internal connections!
@@bennettadriano2954 No its called a monopoly so they can charge some ridiculous price that you paid. Wake up. "Just because I cant afford doesn't mean its overpriced? " That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I can buy multiple 96 patch point units if I wanted. I wont on principle and still use my mechanical patch bays until another company like Behringer puts these gougers in check.
I bought one from you guys a while back and have since installed one in every studio. When time is money, these patchbays are just a nobrainer. May not appeal to small production studios with a small amount of gear to connect, but to any studio that is being run as a business these are essential tools. I know myself I can get much more work done in a day by using one.
Great content again. You guys deserve a large number of subscribers
@@zisuiwang4060 really nice of you to say so, we are working on that! 🙏
On my shopping list once I get enough outboard. Great video again Dale.
@@studioneo986 thank you 🙏 really glad you liked it.
Whoa!! Okay, added to the shopping list! 😄
@@RafaelKrux This will be life changing for you!
Love mine. thats why I own 3 of them.
best explanation video thanks
Glad it was helpful!
The Patch seems like a super useful tool for those of us using lots of outboard gear (along with Session Recall). However, my main hesitation with the Patch is that I've never really seen a definitive answer on how the "patch" between components is made without degrading or altering the signal. Some say they hear no degredation at all and other say that its just not suitable for mastering. I have yet to test one myself, but since I'm strictly mastering, I'll probably end up going with a relay-based insert switcher like the Dangerous Liason just to be on the safe side.
@@audiokemestry If you don’t need a lot of connectivity, a Liaison or similar product may work for you. However we have a lot of mastering engineers using PATCH and even with their ears they are not complaining about any issue with their sound since installing it.
You raise an interesting question, and we will investigate to learn if there is any truth to your concern!
@@sxproaudio Good to know. Thanks much!!
Nice one! Just got a flock and wondering about all the outputs inputs and outboard gear that won't fit in the flock. I could by more flocks, but can't afford that, so what could be a good way to do this; incorporating manual patchbays with the flock for instance. How would you do that?
There is no brilliant way of doing this really, as it always comes with some level of compromise. I'll try to explain as best I can:
If you have a PATCH, you have 32 ins and 32 outs. Let's say you have an audio interface with 8 i/o. That would leave 24i/o on the PATCH. Then you add 8 pieces of stereo outboard to the PATCH, leaving 8i/o. You can add a "regular" patchbay to this, connecting via that spare 8i/o. However, this creates 2 issues: firstly it greatly overlooks the whole point of having the Flock in the first place in that it's completely controllable and recallable digitally, and secondly that you are bottlenecked by the channel count of the daisy-chained patchbays. You will not be able to get more than 8 mono or 4 stereo channels from that extra patchbay at a time. It's even worse if you need to go back and forth between multiple units....
The true answer here is to calculate you I/O and buy the correct Flock for your needs. Yes, the VT and XT are exponentially more expensive but they are also the units that this kind of connectivity becomes even more useful with.
Genuinely i've had customers grumble about the price but once they've had the VT or XT for a week they ALWAYS call me with a huge smile, telling me how it's pretty much the best purchase they've ever made. The biggest challenge I have to sell these units is getting across to end users just how life changing these units can be.
What's the benefit of this versus something like an orion 32?
Great question! You can absolutely use a product like the Orion 32 to achieve a similar workflow. However, there is a horrible drawback to doing that.
Let's assume you connect all your gear to the Orion 32 in a similar fashion to the Flock Patch. If you want to run audio through any three pieces of gear, for example, you will send your audio through six stages of AD/DA conversion to do so. Here's an example audio chain: every time you see the word "interface" a conversion process has happened.
Interface Out -> GEAR 1 -> Interface In -> Interface Out -> GEAR 2 -> Interface In -> Interface Out -> GEAR 3 -> Interface In
Sadly with a product like the Orion 32 this is going to horribly degrade the audio quality by the time it arrives back in your DAW. Imagine, now we increase the number a little, going through 5 pieces of gear - this results in TEN stages of conversion. In fact, this process is not desirable at all, because it is good practice to perform as few AD/DA conversions as possible while mixing with analogue gear, as there is no such thing as a "perfect" converter (although some come very close!); the more conversions you do, the more of the original audio data is going to be lost in the conversion process.
With the Flock Patch, the audio leaves your converter once, runs through any of your gear in any order you wish, maintaining a FULLY ANALOGUE signal path the entire time, then re-enters your converter once. This results in the minimum possible degradation to your audio while mixing.
Keep an eye on this channel and be sure to subscribe, as we are currently working on an "ultimate converter shootout" video which will be extremely eye-opening as to which brands are making the most accurate converters, and demonstrate the degradation that occurs when doing something like using the Orion 32 as a patchbay.
@@sxproaudio Thanks for the info.
That's a nice desk, what is it please?
busoaudio.com/products/producer-2
Let me get this right:
As EXPENSIVE as a Flock system is...
They have the Audacity to charge a Premium for an app that gives you color coding and photos?!
You could choose to look at this from another angle...
The PATCH is not an expensive product if you are a professional where time = money. The PATCH will save you many, many hours of recall time each week and as such will pay for itself extremely quickly.
Also, you don't REQUIRE the premium version of the app to use the PATCH. It comes with a free version that is by no means limited; everything that is vital is covered by that and I demonstrate this in the video. You would only choose the premium app (which is not expensive!) if you want or need the extra features it offers. You are not obliged to pay anything extra. You CAN, if you want the extra features, which cost Flock a not-insignificant amount of extra expense in development. There are a few features that I didn't mention in the video for the sake of keeping it relatively clear and not too confusing; firstly the DX Bridge Plugin which auto-recalls the mix from your DAW session when you open it, and also an iOS app that you can use to control the PATCH from your iPhone or Ipad. These things unfortunately have ongoing costs to maintain because of constant updates to software, both DAW and OS.
If you feel the PATCH is expensive, it's probably because you wouldn't benefit from it in your situation and that's totally cool - like many products out there it's not designed to be the perfect solution for everyone, but there are certainly many people who could benefit from it and thousands who already do.
whats the difference of buying an Apollo or antelope interface and having to purchase the plugins separately? lol
I cant wait till there are more companies offering this tech because honestly its SOOOOO overpriced. I cant wait till behringer clones this shit.
quality comes at a price, just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean its overpriced. its like any other tool for pros, if you find the value in owning it and it saves you money, its worth the investment. I started with 1 and now own 3 of them. worth every penny imo.
Knowing a little about the technology it takes to actually achieve what Flock have done here, i'm not entirely sure it CAN be done much cheaper, if at all - otherwise Flock would probably have done so already. They aren't charging this money because they want to - the cost of the components, plus the development involved here, is not insignificant and the Pro Audio market is extremely competitive.
In the PATCH, you're looking at every single connector point being able to route and connect to every other point, which means at least 1024 internal connections, all of which must be remotely digitally switchable and controllable from the software, which is managed in the UI by simply dragging an icon. It's a true feat of engineering and not as simple as it outwardly seems which itself is testament to just how well Flock have done in it's implementation. Having worked with Flock since they launch the first PATCH product, we are well aware just how hard Flock have worked to develop this product.
For the record, in the PATCH XT there are at least 9216 internal connections!
@@bennettadriano2954 well said
@@bennettadriano2954 No its called a monopoly so they can charge some ridiculous price that you paid. Wake up. "Just because I cant afford doesn't mean its overpriced? " That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I can buy multiple 96 patch point units if I wanted. I wont on principle and still use my mechanical patch bays until another company like Behringer puts these gougers in check.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio You also need to wake up.