To my ear, for reverb, device A sounded brighter or more present than device b. For the distortion, it was harder to hear a difference. Most interesting thing about this exercise was the fact you could remember exactly what you played for each run through! Glad to hear Lenny and the baby are fine!
I did an A/B test between the HX TS808 and a TS808 pedal. I dialed in the HX TS808 to match the TS808 as close as possible. Once I had it dialed in, I honestly could not tell which was which. That convinced me that I don't need to rely on standalone pedals anymore, unless I'm running out of DSP and need something extra.
Great demonstration. I would not be able to tell which is which. The end result is what matters, really. Most important to me are the Amps/Cabs on the HX. The best part of HX is has now replaced all my stomp boxes. Amazing, what a tiny little gadget is able to achieve. What an era we live in now!
For me the only reason why modelling and multi effects systems haven't won, and we keep having this discussion, is because people keep re- litigating the debate. I mean the Helix, Helix LT, HXFX and Stomp basically won years ago. One assumes the profit margins on pedals is astrnomic, and that is why music shops like andertons keep pushing them. Also youtubers cannot let this debate die. These type of vids are popular and probably attract a lot of viewers. We will still be having this debate in 30 years.
Happy to see your channel thriving and subscribers back up above their previous levels. All the success on your journey and good luck with parenting, it's a trip! Keep making inspiring music, lad! Cheers from California.
Asking rhetorically, what is your sound? IMHO if you have a clear vision for yourself, then a few well chosen pedals makes sense, however, you JNC are a gigging/event musician and, if I understand correctly, are playing everything from covers to jazz to having to handle the occasional "Free Bird" request. This is where your presets and snapshots as well as pre-planning make the case for multi-fx. As a duffer, I'm in the camp of just wanting "a taste" rather than spending a fortune. I certainly can't say that I have "a sound," rather I want to get close to something I've heard that made me smile. Glad for the news about Lenny and the baby. Happy New Year.
Unlike many people in the comments I noticed quite a significant difference between A and B devices. The Walrus Audio reverb sounded incredible and had a Lexicon feel about it in the way the reverb meshed with the direct sound. The Line 6 reverb sat on top of the guitar sound, but this is not unusual and is actually more the "norm" for both pedals and multi effects. The Ibanez pedal just sounded better to my ears, though I'm not a fan of the pedal really. As you say, playing live the audience won't notice a difference, but you would in a record mix, but would probably not be able to pinpoint why.
I saw the other video and commented that I too, went back from MultiFx to pedals. I believe that processor units are now at the point where they sound the same or better than some of their counterparts, but sometimes they suffer form the Ice Cream Parlor effect. It has been studied that the more choices we as humans have, the more difficult is to decide for something. The best restaurants don't have large menus. I switched back because, the Pod Go had around 8 compressors, like 7 wahs, 30 overdrives, etc. How many do you _really_ need? I found myself going back to the same two or three all the time, plus time that I'd rather spend playing I had to spend programming, sure as hell are great but sometimes the just plug and play approach works best.
I just want to say how thankful I am for your work and reiterate the fact that you are pretty much my biggest inspiration musically especially when it comes to practicing! Also my Helix gets delivered tomorrow! I've played through amps my entire life, this will be a new experience for me. 🥳🎆🤜🤛🎸You pretty much convinced me to get it. Line 6 should sponsor you. Much love friend!
People who say that the Helix effects aren't good probably don't know how to dial them in. I sold a $400+ octavia pedal after comparing it to the octavia model in my HX Stomp. No regrets. Sounds just as good to me. If there is a difference, I'm probably better off caring more about my playing and my music than the toanz.
I could certainly hear differences, and in some cases may have a slight preference, but I'm also experienced enough to know that out in the wild the differences don't really matter anywhere near as much as they might seem to in an A/B comparison. I'm just trying to get sounds I can work with musically. After 50 years of playing, I'm tired of hauling all the stuff. Probably will get some Helix at some point in the next year.
For Reverb's, individual pedals can sound just as bad/good as Helix, but the best pedals have analog dry through done well which brings it up a good notch above Helix or pedals that are non-analog.
WOW! First of all I'm surprised the HX did so well in front of a real amp! HX sounded very close to Walrus. Both had strong points. I would give it an equal in vibe and tone/sound. I preferred the HX to the SD9. Both in dynamic changes and overall thickness. Also loved playing of course, and the BT.
Your content is outstanding!!! Fantastic music and playing, and super useful information. I watch a lot of this type of content, and yours is consistently among the very best! Keep up the good work!!
Been watching your channel few months now and has really helped me get my head around things, love the way you approach various topics and the dry sense of humour. Something just dawned on me in this episode, I’m constantly looking for gear to help me get a better tone. All the options are pretty damn close to my ears, the actual problem is that I don’t know how to use it. Why do you sculpt a tone, what are you looking/listening for when/where to use delay/reverb in live band settings to sound the best with what you got. More/less gain etc. I need a lesson on tone and not necessarily on gear, would love to hear your take from this perspective. Thanks again for great great content. Paul
I switched to HxFx a couple years ago and run in 4CM into a couple different tube amps pushing Weber attenuators into cabs...the sounds I get are amazing. A drawer full of pedals will always be cool but the HxFx's ability to change out pedals and/or reroute the signal chain in an instant + ability to save presets is priceless. I can even change channels on my amps with presets...great piece of gear. Note: I'm not sold on amp sims like Helix. They sound good but lack feel imo in regards to amp response/sag. Unless you live in an apartment then get a Helix.
In my opinion the HxFx and real pedals are really close and that is what I am hearing here too - that is why I dropped some 15 or so kg from my pedalboard and went to a HxFx. I am not saying it is identical, but it is close enough for me to not care about the small differences that may exist. I am still enjoying pedals and their Mojo and I am afraid that I have literally hundreds ... but 2023 will be a big pedal purge year.
So, I'm running into a problem where this video actually helps me answer a few questions. Running a Mesa triple Crown into an oversized 2 by 12 cabinet. And I'm personally noticing sound quality loss when I try to expand my pebble board, Suffice to say what I'm hearing is a tone that is not the direct sound if I were just to go into the front of the amplifier... But instead colored too far away from the original for me to want to use too many pedals. I'm making a fairly big consideration into getting the full sized helix floor unit along with a 1 by 12 power cab. My thought being that I may not be able to do the single thing that my Mesa might be able to do as well but instead trade that for greater versatility, Along with the option to run as many pedals in my signal chain without the signal degradation associated with my real life experience using a big board into my power amp and cabinet. Ultimately, this video leaves me thinking that there is a lot of additional tweaking that I may have to do when I'm making my patches... But that in the end, I will get a very consistent and clean and clear product after putting that work in. Thank you for making video.
Trying to sound like analog devices is just an option. We are used to those sounds because they were the only ones that existed and have grown accustomed to them. But some digital amps and FX can be preferred by some over some analog ones.
I think takeaway here is that both provide perfectly serviceable tones. Really good sounds either way so my basic rule of, if it sounds good it IS good, is satisfied.
It's funny that this is still a debate. My friends and I were using Korg and Digitech multieffect floor units, and Alesis Quadraverb rack units back in the 90s.
I collect pedals and have a few boards going on... but I use my Helix LT almost exclusively through my monitors, and sometimes through FRFR. It's way more convenient and not obnoxiously loud late at night. I have the effects laid out the same way as my actual boards, and it's close enough that no one would be able to tell the difference.
Really all the setups sounded good - most helix/HX pedals hold up pretty well to me - to the point I could just use them and not worry too much about pedals - save for certain distortion/fuzz pedals. Partly because of the particular 'drive' sounds, but also because they have an interaction with the signal chain impedance (ie no matter how I set it, fuzz options just don't clean up by backing off the volume like a physical one can, nor does it always manage the sort of 'fizz' or bloom on notes - but that could also be a eq thing).
I am, admittedly, a lazy electric guitar player. I am a firm believer in presets. With individual pedals, there would be alot more bending down and tweaking which, during a gig, is a hassle. I use a Pod Go and have grown accustom to building the present, setting the snapshots, and then playing.
I’ve been pretty obsessed with finding the right drive pedals for me lately, buying and selling trying to find the sound in my head, I keep forgetting that I have more options available to me in the HX stomp XL which I’ve been typically using as a multi fx for the modulation/reverb/delay that I don’t have stand alone pedals for, definitely gonna play with some of the emulated pedals even if it’s just to give me more gain staging options.
A good shoot out. For me Device A delay clean I preferred compared to device B. For the distortion Device A and B were really close. In terms of Helix vs pedals. I will say Devise A was pedals as seems a smidge more dynamic and brighter on the clean/delay example. Wildcard is pedals I say
No. It doesn't. Been using one for years. The flexibility is invaluable. It eliminates the need to always be buying pedals. You can instead buy whole patches...for specific tones. Amazing bit of kit.
Great video! I own a Pod Go and I’m about to get an HX Effects. I don’t thing the issue is if it sounds like the real pedals for me. Multi-effects are convenient and have many different options. I’ve not done a shootout with my real pedals.
is modelling perfect? no. can anyone else in the band/audience tell a difference? also no. i love cool pedals. i love boutique pedals. i love tube amps. but there's no way to replace the convenience of a modeler. assigning parameters to snapshots was a game changer for me. so much more flexible. plus i can try out almost any amp i want at any time. i get the arguments against it, but i don't want to carry around a tube amp and a massive pedalboard anymore.
This is a great way to compare individual pedals! I honestly didn’t hear a noticeable difference that made me feel like having one or the other was “missing” something. They sounded ‘the same’ to me. Maybe I need to listen again with different headphones.
I simply won't be told who I can or cannot congratulate. I'm thankful for all you do to create meaningful content that players of various skill levels can benefit from, and wish you and your growing family all the best.
I couldn't tell which tone was analog and which was digital. All were useful given the proper musical context. What matters to me is whether or not I can dial in the tones I want, and if I can easily "recall" them for future use. I can do that on my HX Stomp. I think you should program some cool, complex tones/Effects on a Line 6 Helix Modeler, then see if you can find an analog pedal that can replicate it. Then we'll see just how limited analog pedals are, and how expensive it would be for them to emulate something a Modeler can easily do.
For me at least, I can always tell the difference between my modellers an pedals, but I think that is because you are a master at dialling in the Helix etc so they are practically indistinguishable
I really like doing parallel fx paths for a lot of my pitch or time based fx. Unless I was gonna invest in an extremely expensive switcher I would be able to create nearly the type of signal chains I can create on basically any modern modeler.
I once was in a music store where one of the employees told me about when they met Eric Johnson. TLDR - Eric Johnson had a pedal at the time that he felt sounded better if he took the screws out of the back and held the back plate on with rubber bands. Point is, tone is subjective and I have yet to hear any professional recordings done with the Helix that I thought didn’t sound great
My favorite shop had Eric Johnson buy a pair of silver face Princeton reverbs once and he asked the owner to make sure he put the exact same screws in the exact same hole they came out of on the backplate when they serviced the amp.
@@markbrooks7257 The same guy that told me the first story mentioned something similar. He had been talking to Eric Johnson’s guitar tech - pick guard and tremolo cavity cover screws were all required to go back into the same hole they came out of. Maybe EJ can hear the difference but I certainly can’t
I was able to tell which ones were the pedals and which were the Line 6 but I also use a Helix almost exclusively so I know the subtle Helix characteristics when I hear it.
I have 2 overdrive pedals and a stomp on my board. The pedals each cost more than the stomp, and sometimes for fun I compare the drives, and im a little unhappy that they sound so close 😉 but im very happy with the analog drives, so I keep them on the board. Somehow they are more fun to play
Thank you John for the video. I understand that you are a loyal fan of HX Stomp and Helix in general. I have HX Stomp with many individual pedals. Tones may sound similar to listener but for sure the way analog pedals feels for guitarists is not comparable to digital pedals. To me HXS does not have dynamics of analog drive pedals. I am sure that you also know it.
To me, they were all sounding great. I'd put this mostly down to John's great playing and also the improvement in modelling (particularly drives) in the last few years. My question for John would be - how do these different pedals/multiFX FEEL? Do the analog pedals respond better to the player's nuances than the digital equivalent? Or are we at a stage where this isn't an issue anymore?
I've been using an HX stomp on my board for a few years now and I keep coming back to the conclusion that outboard drives just sound better to my ear. As you mentioned with the increased top end information on the digital drives, I feel like the sound gets a little too hi-fi (which is something that i feel like im constantly fighting with the helix). I have my helix handle wet fx, amp, cab, compression, and modulation while I have a few analog overdrive/fuzz/distortion pedals in front of it. It's definitely my favorite way to use a modeler.
I think it doesn't matter. I'd rather have one thing for convenience than 10 or 15 where a cable or any of those individual devices could fail. Easier setup and troubleshooting.
Thanks John! A good summary of the multi effects state of play. Personally, I think they’ve already passed the critical comparison point with analogue gear, and amps and pedals are facing extinction!
black lion audio have a line6 mod program where you can get all the components in your helix upgraded with more expensive ones. I dont think anybody has done a review of it, would be really interesting to see
I have a pedal board, it’s the floorboard for my Line 6 ;) I think about this often and always come to the conclusion that tone in every instance is EQ and how you stage that EQ. That’s what I’ve been experimenting with lately on my banks as I’m dialling tones in for my guitars. Think you summed it up well. If you have them and they are your favourite? Why not keep using it? For me id sell it and buy something else, for a lot of guitarists selling a pedal and using that money for some lessons would do more for their tone and playing than that individual pedal. The other thing you mentioned is called overchoice, and that’s why I find with Line 6 and others. If you have a pedal and it’s got 3 knobs, it can be way better to limit your options with that than have every single button to shape that tone, and then shape that tone and then shape that tone. There’s just too much sometimes on the modellers. But then again, if I’m building a signal path would it not be the same? Is just that you’d need an EQ pedal after every other pedal on your physical board to really shape that.
A comment on the 'accurate' bit: I don't think that matters at all. Very rarely do Boutique pedals try to accurately replicate a TS9, for instance. The goal is usually to improve upon the circuit or do a personal spin on it. The only three criteria that matter in any shootout of any gear, I think, is 1) which is more useable (both aurally and user friendliness...ily?) 2) which is more inspiring/enjoyable 3) which is more durable Edit: Oh, and again: my favorite reverb is the one in the Heliosphere
I am really wanting a HX Stomp or HX Stomp XL, but I am a individual pedal kind of guy and I correctly identified which pedal were used. Over time, I have been able to sonically hear the digital signal processing vs a stomp box... Also, I prefer analog sounds opposed to digital. However, I really want a HX Stomp device for its amps and cabs, along with the ease of practice, play, and recording quietly (without a cranked tube amp).
I spent a boatload cycling through pedals until I got a pod go. It turns out that I can get close enough (at home recording, playing live with friends/family) for pennies on the dollar. I only use 4 or 5 amps and less than a dozen pedals but they're all in that little black box. The only pedal I miss is the Boss BD2.
As someone who has a smaller Helix Hx stomp board and another full size board with pedals the Helix effects (all of them) fall very short of my real pedals. Helix sounds pretty darn good but in comparison it’s not even close.
Another good video John! For myself, I really really like the effects in the HX Effects, all categories. Coming from a Boss MS-3 previously which had really pretty mediocre delays and reverbs, the HX Effects was a real upgrade to my tone. Regarding drives, as I commented in your previous video, I use the analog drives I use because I came to them after years of trial and error. They give me the kind of tone I want, saturated and chewy for the Revv G4, great crunch with the G2 and the Tumnus as a boost. The HX does not have anything really comparable except for its Klon model vs my Wampler Tumnus Deluxe but that one has more features (full EQ and the Hot switch). I'm not a Klon purist and the Tumnus is a fantastic boost with which I can sculpt low end and mids better than a plain Klon or its model in the HX. Again, in the MS-3, the drives were all pretty terrible to me with a weird grating high end. The HX Effect's drives are much better than that for sure and I have owned a couple of the real ones including the DS-1 and the HX nails that. In general, my impression is that the HX/Helix effects (reverbs, delays, mod, etc.) are really great but I still think analog drive pedals sound a bit better and certainly feel better to me but again. That depends on the drive. As much as I love my Tumnus Deluxe, I could not get a usable sound out of the Pinnacle Deluxe v2 (also from Wampler). Wrong distortion "texture" for me, way to bright in general and weird feel to me yet all thye demos of it I'd heard sounded great. The JHS Angry CHarlie which is a MIAB JCM800 typoe drive gor me closer to the distortion sound I wanted. But the Revv G4 is just what I had been wanting all this time. In the end, all a matter of taste of course :)
That just sold Me on the G4 though I’m grabbing the R4 by DemonFx . Having a Joyo Uzi and Dark Flame, I can’t believe how close they sound to the real counterparts they are cloning. I was on the fence with the pinnacle, G4 should Do Me right
@@adamstein9333 The G4 emulates the Revv Generator 120's Red channel though, very different than a JCM800 or a Marshall in general although I think it has a similar mid bark. But the G4 is way more versatile than other drives I've had because of the aggression switch. And it just feels great to me.
@@StephaneBergeronPixelyzed You’re absolutely right. The JCM 800 modded marshall or Friedman BE OD is cloned by Joyo Uzi. Dark Flame is the G3. DemonFx make exact replica clones and call them the R3, and R4, which You said You had the G4 (a pedal that I wish I could afford right now, but I will have to settle with the R4, same circuitry and packaging, also Guptech does the Same thing with the G2, G3, G4, (G5 is the Diezel Preamp) and the G8. The design of pedals virtually are different however same circuitry’s and they don’t have a cease and desist order because of the blatant ripoff. They are Called the VEJ series and they make a 3 Pedal monster of the G2 G3 and G4! It huge! I have not played the Revv G4 and want it very bad but really haven’t heard to many good demos! Can You tell Me about it? If it’s anything like a Rectifier in a Box I am Sold. I didn’t mean any confusion.
@@adamstein9333 Well it's hard to describe a tone with words ;) The G4 is the highest gain of the Revv pedals but, to me, it' also the most versatile. Like it's channel on the Gen 120 (as well as the G3 and the Purple channel on the 120), it has an aggression switch that changes both the gain structure and voicing of the distortion. The only other pedal I know that is a bit like that but is indeed closer to a Marshall is the JHS "The AT" (Andy Timmons signature Angry Charlie). That one has a wattage switch that also changes the gain structure and the saturation of the pedal. The G4 aggression switch is a bit like that but has a greater effect on EQ. To me distortion often comes down to "texture" and the G4 is pretty smooth and feels very "chewy" under the fingers. That's another way it's similar to the JHS AT to me (which I own as well). The Pinnacle is not like that and has a harder tone with a "coarser" texture. The G4 also has a full 3 band EQ which helps sculpt the tone further. Check out a few demos although they can be misleading in different amps. Don't know if you have one or heard the Revv Gen Red model in one of the Line 6 Helix devices. They modelled a Mark II Generator. The Red channel on the current Mark III Generators sounds pretty different to me but I see the resemblance between the Helix Rev Gen Red model and the G4. Don't know if that helps ;) Good luck!
Speaking of that, DemonFx also clones the At plus but they call it the @ and it’s Identical as well. Fortin has already tried suing them and they’re Grind 33 and Guul has been seized. You have some amazing gear and could only dream of the Pedals and Amps/multi effects Your speaking of. Your already sold Me on the G4 and the AT plus, and Yes I have heard of Helix’s Revv sims and they are quite awesome. Because of this discussion I’m going to buy helix Native tonight! I am a gear head and have Lost, had stolen, sold, broken and repeat for 30 plus years now of S Tier Gear. These Days I can only afford budget gear and unfortunately have to digress to purchasing Clones. I’m aware of all the Gear You speak of and knowledgeable about every piece of equipment You have mentioned which makes Me almost want to beg to ask You more because I have seen all the demos and have horrible G.A.S. For My second Floor rig (yep no amp yet lol) I plan on getting the G4, and AT plus clone and then ABY to helix native . I have had a toss up about the Pathos, Pinnacle Deluxe, Walrus Eras and Ages, Bogner Ubershall pedal, MXR EVH 5150, Ceres preamp, new AMT Legend 3 Tube pedals, Surh Riot and the Westminster 2716. If You are familiar with any of these can You point Me in the right direction? I have never had tumnes, but familiar with Jan Ray, Klon, OCD, and other transparent stackable overdrives. Out of the Gear I named or if You could tell Me of something Better, I am needing a new Preamp and Overdrive and the ones I listed seem to be the Best from the content I’ve seen. Oh I almost forgot… Northern Mauler or Shawn Tubbs Tilt by Revv? Sorry to bother You I’m just kinda inspired by how Much great gear you have and You explained the nuances/textures/tones in words very well. Thank You
For me it's the drives. I have a Boss ME70 and a line 6 HD300. Neither of which is new. I like the idea of the Boss ME70 ,that its like a set of stomp boxs.What I really dislike is that the drives don't clean up using the guitar's volume knob. If that wasn't the case it would be fine for me. The line 6 is better like that but I'm not a menus guy. The downside to pedals are that a board is bulkier and heavier ( depending on how many you have)
I think there’s more of a sonic difference the player can notice more than a listener, I didn’t like most of the drives from the Helix when it first came out and used drives pedals,now I found a combination within the Helix that suites me and not expect any of the drives in the helix to be exact copies of the real deal but will do the “thing” close enough.
Ooohhh k, really interesting, I definitely preferred the A version, especially for the reverb, though I had the impression the two were not exactly matched for volume which would throw it off? Version B in the reverb certainly worked but was a bit less crystalline and popping out. The wildcard I would say was version B. Had it been played with a looper to be exactly the same I reckon it would have been more difficult to distinguish. The verb for sure took it, the drives oddly I wouldn’t say I had any particular preference for either way, probably due the drive itself. Not my cuppa? Really well done video though either way .
To my ear, they sound very close. Two guitars don't sound the same, even string age or size changes sound/tone. With Multi-FX you get so much more. If you have one pedal you LOVE, use it with a Multi-FX. No pedal or guitar will get me close to JC tone. I just need more focused practice.
In before watching your thoughts, straight after the demos, I prefer reverb A by a HUGE margin and drive A by a hair. Great playing though and both sounds are perfectly usable. But that reverb A, man.
Firstly, having spent my budget on an HX Effects *and* a Stomp XL in the past year, I'm pissed that every time I hear your play through the Mark 3, I wish I had the funds, environment, and *chops* to justify getting one. 8-) Okay, about the comparison, what stood out the most to me is how noisy the Walrus is. It was also a lot brighter than the Helix verb tone. I wonder if there was a high-end boost in the Walrus (perhaps affecting the direct tone?), a levels issue, or a high-end cut in the Helix, that could explain this difference. I found the hiss really distracting. I tend to like darker tones (despite my 60-yr-old ears), so I found the Helix reverb tone more pleasing anyway, but I couldn't live with the hiss from the Walrus, esp. at its price point. -Tom
I would love it if you could borrow a strum in Big sky and show us how to make every tone in there on HX. I bet you could get a dozen or more videos out of it. Do you have a friend who has a big sky?
In my experience, I could get away with an effects processor for any sound except distortion. I found that it was hard to get a good tone with distortion thought an effects processor and would have to rely on my amp or deal with an okay sounding distortion sound.
Also, effects processors seem to lack in color or depth. To the normal ear, one wouldn't notice the difference. To tone chasers, you'll definitely hear the difference.
Modelers are not for everyone. They do, as stated offer a lot of advantages. The other thing that these kind of conversations are always about bias toward one thing vs. the other and why it's better. This is all one big pool of tools for creating music. Choose what interest's you if you decide your sound is something else do it, and don't let your bias choose for you. As demonstrated, you have a high likelihood of surviving the experience with either setup. So, lets respect everyones preference and play some guitar!
I think it's fair to say that we're at a point where both devices will accomplish our creative goals. We should all just accept it and start making some music.
Different tools for different jobs. If you compare 3 different TS style pedals, each is going to have its own flavor. You pick the one that is right for the task at hand. I'll probably never sell my pedals, but I rarely use them since the Helix. One isn't necessarily better than the other...just different.
Love the Helix. But for some reason I cannot get into the reverbs. Not sure if it's the actual sound or my preference to play with real knobs over menus. And I do think there are too many parameters for the delays and reverbs. Although I'm sure one day I'll probably flip flop on my position here. But I have the Wampler Metaverse and love it in the FX loop. So simple, beautiful sounds, and the benefit of midi programming if I need to incorporate into my presets.
Puppies!!! And on a side note, I'm not fooling with any pedals or patch cables, or power supplies. People cannot pick out a pedal ever in a blind test.
I’m saying A is the “real” pedals, but I’m also convinced my preference for “real” drive pedals is totally unjustified. Especially when you get into a mix.
I've owned a Helix Floor but now own a HX Stomp. I think the delays, reverbs and many of the modulation effects are fine. However, the OD, Distortion and Fuzz effects do not sound as good as the real thing in my opinion. I now use real OD, Distortion and Fuzz pedals in front of my HX Stomp, running it either with a real amp or direct using the HX amp models.
Noisy stage…. Ripping gig….who cares, both work…. I’ve heard that Bats are able to hear the difference in the 96 Gaz-zillion hertz zone on a dark night in Timbuktu! Honestly, bedroom warriors. Plug in and go play on a stage, with people.
I was able to detect (or rather place correct bets) which ones were HX... to my surprise, because I'm bad at guitar tone tweaking. I thought I wouldn't catch a difference, but there was one. Every tone in this vid was nice and pleasant, who cares about "worse" if it's 5% at most in tone, while playing skill can make 1000% difference ;D
Yes, real pedals sound and feel better, at least low gain to high mid gain pedals. It only becomes more of a moot point at the highest levels of gain. I don't find Helix inspiring at all. Plug directly into a real amp and pedals and it's night and day for inspiration.
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To my ear, for reverb, device A sounded brighter or more present than device b. For the distortion, it was harder to hear a difference. Most interesting thing about this exercise was the fact you could remember exactly what you played for each run through! Glad to hear Lenny and the baby are fine!
I did an A/B test between the HX TS808 and a TS808 pedal. I dialed in the HX TS808 to match the TS808 as close as possible. Once I had it dialed in, I honestly could not tell which was which. That convinced me that I don't need to rely on standalone pedals anymore, unless I'm running out of DSP and need something extra.
Great demonstration. I would not be able to tell which is which. The end result is what matters, really. Most important to me are the Amps/Cabs on the HX. The best part of HX is has now replaced all my stomp boxes. Amazing, what a tiny little gadget is able to achieve. What an era we live in now!
For me the only reason why modelling and multi effects systems haven't won, and we keep having this discussion, is because people keep re- litigating the debate.
I mean the Helix, Helix LT, HXFX and Stomp basically won years ago.
One assumes the profit margins on pedals is astrnomic, and that is why music shops like andertons keep pushing them.
Also youtubers cannot let this debate die. These type of vids are popular and probably attract a lot of viewers.
We will still be having this debate in 30 years.
Bingo. Pedals are a cash cow.
Happy to see your channel thriving and subscribers back up above their previous levels. All the success on your journey and good luck with parenting, it's a trip! Keep making inspiring music, lad! Cheers from California.
Asking rhetorically, what is your sound? IMHO if you have a clear vision for yourself, then a few well chosen pedals makes sense, however, you JNC are a gigging/event musician and, if I understand correctly, are playing everything from covers to jazz to having to handle the occasional "Free Bird" request. This is where your presets and snapshots as well as pre-planning make the case for multi-fx. As a duffer, I'm in the camp of just wanting "a taste" rather than spending a fortune. I certainly can't say that I have "a sound," rather I want to get close to something I've heard that made me smile. Glad for the news about Lenny and the baby. Happy New Year.
Unlike many people in the comments I noticed quite a significant difference between A and B devices. The Walrus Audio reverb sounded incredible and had a Lexicon feel about it in the way the reverb meshed with the direct sound. The Line 6 reverb sat on top of the guitar sound, but this is not unusual and is actually more the "norm" for both pedals and multi effects. The Ibanez pedal just sounded better to my ears, though I'm not a fan of the pedal really. As you say, playing live the audience won't notice a difference, but you would in a record mix, but would probably not be able to pinpoint why.
I saw the other video and commented that I too, went back from MultiFx to pedals. I believe that processor units are now at the point where they sound the same or better than some of their counterparts, but sometimes they suffer form the Ice Cream Parlor effect. It has been studied that the more choices we as humans have, the more difficult is to decide for something. The best restaurants don't have large menus. I switched back because, the Pod Go had around 8 compressors, like 7 wahs, 30 overdrives, etc. How many do you _really_ need? I found myself going back to the same two or three all the time, plus time that I'd rather spend playing I had to spend programming, sure as hell are great but sometimes the just plug and play approach works best.
I just want to say how thankful I am for your work and reiterate the fact that you are pretty much my biggest inspiration musically especially when it comes to practicing! Also my Helix gets delivered tomorrow! I've played through amps my entire life, this will be a new experience for me. 🥳🎆🤜🤛🎸You pretty much convinced me to get it. Line 6 should sponsor you. Much love friend!
Should have went with Fractal...
People who say that the Helix effects aren't good probably don't know how to dial them in.
I sold a $400+ octavia pedal after comparing it to the octavia model in my HX Stomp. No regrets. Sounds just as good to me. If there is a difference, I'm probably better off caring more about my playing and my music than the toanz.
I could certainly hear differences, and in some cases may have a slight preference, but I'm also experienced enough to know that out in the wild the differences don't really matter anywhere near as much as they might seem to in an A/B comparison. I'm just trying to get sounds I can work with musically. After 50 years of playing, I'm tired of hauling all the stuff. Probably will get some Helix at some point in the next year.
For Reverb's, individual pedals can sound just as bad/good as Helix, but the best pedals have analog dry through done well which brings it up a good notch above Helix or pedals that are non-analog.
WOW! First of all I'm surprised the HX did so well in front of a real amp! HX sounded very close to Walrus. Both had strong points. I would give it an equal in vibe and tone/sound. I preferred the HX to the SD9. Both in dynamic changes and overall thickness. Also loved playing of course, and the BT.
I’m really surprised more people haven’t done shoot- outs on this. I actually like the reverbs and delays better than most of the pedals I’ve had…
Your content is outstanding!!! Fantastic music and playing, and super useful information. I watch a lot of this type of content, and yours is consistently among the very best! Keep up the good work!!
Some great points John. there are so many factors that go into this debate and I’m sure it will rage on for a long time.
Glad to hear the news with your family is positive. Warm thoughts from the States...
So very close. The helix effects distortion sounded tighter to me. Reverbs we so close I couldn’t tell the difference. Thanks John.
Been watching your channel few months now and has really helped me get my head around things, love the way you approach various topics and the dry sense of humour. Something just dawned on me in this episode, I’m constantly looking for gear to help me get a better tone. All the options are pretty damn close to my ears, the actual problem is that I don’t know how to use it. Why do you sculpt a tone, what are you looking/listening for when/where to use delay/reverb in live band settings to sound the best with what you got. More/less gain etc. I need a lesson on tone and not necessarily on gear, would love to hear your take from this perspective. Thanks again for great great content. Paul
I switched to HxFx a couple years ago and run in 4CM into a couple different tube amps pushing Weber attenuators into cabs...the sounds I get are amazing.
A drawer full of pedals will always be cool but the HxFx's ability to change out pedals and/or reroute the signal chain in an instant + ability to save presets is priceless. I can even change channels on my amps with presets...great piece of gear.
Note: I'm not sold on amp sims like Helix. They sound good but lack feel imo in regards to amp response/sag. Unless you live in an apartment then get a Helix.
In my opinion the HxFx and real pedals are really close and that is what I am hearing here too - that is why I dropped some 15 or so kg from my pedalboard and went to a HxFx. I am not saying it is identical, but it is close enough for me to not care about the small differences that may exist. I am still enjoying pedals and their Mojo and I am afraid that I have literally hundreds ... but 2023 will be a big pedal purge year.
So, I'm running into a problem where this video actually helps me answer a few questions. Running a Mesa triple Crown into an oversized 2 by 12 cabinet. And I'm personally noticing sound quality loss when I try to expand my pebble board, Suffice to say what I'm hearing is a tone that is not the direct sound if I were just to go into the front of the amplifier... But instead colored too far away from the original for me to want to use too many pedals.
I'm making a fairly big consideration into getting the full sized helix floor unit along with a 1 by 12 power cab. My thought being that I may not be able to do the single thing that my Mesa might be able to do as well but instead trade that for greater versatility, Along with the option to run as many pedals in my signal chain without the signal degradation associated with my real life experience using a big board into my power amp and cabinet. Ultimately, this video leaves me thinking that there is a lot of additional tweaking that I may have to do when I'm making my patches... But that in the end, I will get a very consistent and clean and clear product after putting that work in.
Thank you for making video.
Trying to sound like analog devices is just an option. We are used to those sounds because they were the only ones that existed and have grown accustomed to them. But some digital amps and FX can be preferred by some over some analog ones.
I think takeaway here is that both provide perfectly serviceable tones. Really good sounds either way so my basic rule of, if it sounds good it IS good, is satisfied.
It's funny that this is still a debate. My friends and I were using Korg and Digitech multieffect floor units, and Alesis Quadraverb rack units back in the 90s.
I collect pedals and have a few boards going on... but I use my Helix LT almost exclusively through my monitors, and sometimes through FRFR. It's way more convenient and not obnoxiously loud late at night. I have the effects laid out the same way as my actual boards, and it's close enough that no one would be able to tell the difference.
Really all the setups sounded good - most helix/HX pedals hold up pretty well to me - to the point I could just use them and not worry too much about pedals - save for certain distortion/fuzz pedals. Partly because of the particular 'drive' sounds, but also because they have an interaction with the signal chain impedance (ie no matter how I set it, fuzz options just don't clean up by backing off the volume like a physical one can, nor does it always manage the sort of 'fizz' or bloom on notes - but that could also be a eq thing).
I am, admittedly, a lazy electric guitar player. I am a firm believer in presets. With individual pedals, there would be alot more bending down and tweaking which, during a gig, is a hassle. I use a Pod Go and have grown accustom to building the present, setting the snapshots, and then playing.
I’ve been pretty obsessed with finding the right drive pedals for me lately, buying and selling trying to find the sound in my head, I keep forgetting that I have more options available to me in the HX stomp XL which I’ve been typically using as a multi fx for the modulation/reverb/delay that I don’t have stand alone pedals for, definitely gonna play with some of the emulated pedals even if it’s just to give me more gain staging options.
A good shoot out.
For me Device A delay clean I preferred compared to device B.
For the distortion Device A and B were really close.
In terms of Helix vs pedals. I will say Devise A was pedals as seems a smidge more dynamic and brighter on the clean/delay example.
Wildcard is pedals I say
Beautiful color on the strat
No. It doesn't. Been using one for years. The flexibility is invaluable. It eliminates the need to always be buying pedals. You can instead buy whole patches...for specific tones. Amazing bit of kit.
Great video! I own a Pod Go and I’m about to get an HX Effects. I don’t thing the issue is if it sounds like the real pedals for me. Multi-effects are convenient and have many different options. I’ve not done a shootout with my real pedals.
is modelling perfect? no. can anyone else in the band/audience tell a difference? also no. i love cool pedals. i love boutique pedals. i love tube amps. but there's no way to replace the convenience of a modeler. assigning parameters to snapshots was a game changer for me. so much more flexible. plus i can try out almost any amp i want at any time. i get the arguments against it, but i don't want to carry around a tube amp and a massive pedalboard anymore.
This is a great way to compare individual pedals!
I honestly didn’t hear a noticeable difference that made me feel like having one or the other was “missing” something. They sounded ‘the same’ to me.
Maybe I need to listen again with different headphones.
I simply won't be told who I can or cannot congratulate. I'm thankful for all you do to create meaningful content that players of various skill levels can benefit from, and wish you and your growing family all the best.
I couldn't tell which tone was analog and which was digital. All were useful given the proper musical context. What matters to me is whether or not I can dial in the tones I want, and if I can easily "recall" them for future use. I can do that on my HX Stomp. I think you should program some cool, complex tones/Effects on a Line 6 Helix Modeler, then see if you can find an analog pedal that can replicate it. Then we'll see just how limited analog pedals are, and how expensive it would be for them to emulate something a Modeler can easily do.
i recently was recommended this channel and my dude I love the tone❤! thank you.
For me at least, I can always tell the difference between my modellers an pedals, but I think that is because you are a master at dialling in the Helix etc so they are practically indistinguishable
I really like doing parallel fx paths for a lot of my pitch or time based fx.
Unless I was gonna invest in an extremely expensive switcher I would be able to create nearly the type of signal chains I can create on basically any modern modeler.
this
I once was in a music store where one of the employees told me about when they met Eric Johnson. TLDR - Eric Johnson had a pedal at the time that he felt sounded better if he took the screws out of the back and held the back plate on with rubber bands. Point is, tone is subjective and I have yet to hear any professional recordings done with the Helix that I thought didn’t sound great
My favorite shop had Eric Johnson buy a pair of silver face Princeton reverbs once and he asked the owner to make sure he put the exact same screws in the exact same hole they came out of on the backplate when they serviced the amp.
@@markbrooks7257 The same guy that told me the first story mentioned something similar. He had been talking to Eric Johnson’s guitar tech - pick guard and tremolo cavity cover screws were all required to go back into the same hole they came out of. Maybe EJ can hear the difference but I certainly can’t
I was able to tell which ones were the pedals and which were the Line 6 but I also use a Helix almost exclusively so I know the subtle Helix characteristics when I hear it.
I have 2 overdrive pedals and a stomp on my board. The pedals each cost more than the stomp, and sometimes for fun I compare the drives, and im a little unhappy that they sound so close 😉 but im very happy with the analog drives, so I keep them on the board. Somehow they are more fun to play
Thank you John for the video. I understand that you are a loyal fan of HX Stomp and Helix in general. I have HX Stomp with many individual pedals. Tones may sound similar to listener but for sure the way analog pedals feels for guitarists is not comparable to digital pedals. To me HXS does not have dynamics of analog drive pedals. I am sure that you also know it.
To me, they were all sounding great. I'd put this mostly down to John's great playing and also the improvement in modelling (particularly drives) in the last few years. My question for John would be - how do these different pedals/multiFX FEEL? Do the analog pedals respond better to the player's nuances than the digital equivalent? Or are we at a stage where this isn't an issue anymore?
Is no one going to mention the insane harp tapping technique at 2:30? -P
I've been using an HX stomp on my board for a few years now and I keep coming back to the conclusion that outboard drives just sound better to my ear. As you mentioned with the increased top end information on the digital drives, I feel like the sound gets a little too hi-fi (which is something that i feel like im constantly fighting with the helix). I have my helix handle wet fx, amp, cab, compression, and modulation while I have a few analog overdrive/fuzz/distortion pedals in front of it. It's definitely my favorite way to use a modeler.
I think it doesn't matter. I'd rather have one thing for convenience than 10 or 15 where a cable or any of those individual devices could fail. Easier setup and troubleshooting.
Thanks John! A good summary of the multi effects state of play. Personally, I think they’ve already passed the critical comparison point with analogue gear, and amps and pedals are facing extinction!
black lion audio have a line6 mod program where you can get all the components in your helix upgraded with more expensive ones. I dont think anybody has done a review of it, would be really interesting to see
I have a pedal board, it’s the floorboard for my Line 6 ;)
I think about this often and always come to the conclusion that tone in every instance is EQ and how you stage that EQ.
That’s what I’ve been experimenting with lately on my banks as I’m dialling tones in for my guitars.
Think you summed it up well. If you have them and they are your favourite? Why not keep using it? For me id sell it and buy something else, for a lot of guitarists selling a pedal and using that money for some lessons would do more for their tone and playing than that individual pedal.
The other thing you mentioned is called overchoice, and that’s why I find with Line 6 and others. If you have a pedal and it’s got 3 knobs, it can be way better to limit your options with that than have every single button to shape that tone, and then shape that tone and then shape that tone.
There’s just too much sometimes on the modellers. But then again, if I’m building a signal path would it not be the same? Is just that you’d need an EQ pedal after every other pedal on your physical board to really shape that.
A comment on the 'accurate' bit: I don't think that matters at all. Very rarely do Boutique pedals try to accurately replicate a TS9, for instance. The goal is usually to improve upon the circuit or do a personal spin on it. The only three criteria that matter in any shootout of any gear, I think, is 1) which is more useable (both aurally and user friendliness...ily?) 2) which is more inspiring/enjoyable 3) which is more durable
Edit:
Oh, and again: my favorite reverb is the one in the Heliosphere
Considering what our guitar forefathers used to make classic albums, we should be pretty good.
I am really wanting a HX Stomp or HX Stomp XL, but I am a individual pedal kind of guy and I correctly identified which pedal were used. Over time, I have been able to sonically hear the digital signal processing vs a stomp box... Also, I prefer analog sounds opposed to digital.
However, I really want a HX Stomp device for its amps and cabs, along with the ease of practice, play, and recording quietly (without a cranked tube amp).
I spent a boatload cycling through pedals until I got a pod go. It turns out that I can get close enough (at home recording, playing live with friends/family) for pennies on the dollar. I only use 4 or 5 amps and less than a dozen pedals but they're all in that little black box. The only pedal I miss is the Boss BD2.
As someone who has a smaller Helix Hx stomp board and another full size board with pedals the Helix effects (all of them) fall very short of my real pedals. Helix sounds pretty darn good but in comparison it’s not even close.
Another good video John! For myself, I really really like the effects in the HX Effects, all categories. Coming from a Boss MS-3 previously which had really pretty mediocre delays and reverbs, the HX Effects was a real upgrade to my tone.
Regarding drives, as I commented in your previous video, I use the analog drives I use because I came to them after years of trial and error. They give me the kind of tone I want, saturated and chewy for the Revv G4, great crunch with the G2 and the Tumnus as a boost. The HX does not have anything really comparable except for its Klon model vs my Wampler Tumnus Deluxe but that one has more features (full EQ and the Hot switch). I'm not a Klon purist and the Tumnus is a fantastic boost with which I can sculpt low end and mids better than a plain Klon or its model in the HX.
Again, in the MS-3, the drives were all pretty terrible to me with a weird grating high end. The HX Effect's drives are much better than that for sure and I have owned a couple of the real ones including the DS-1 and the HX nails that.
In general, my impression is that the HX/Helix effects (reverbs, delays, mod, etc.) are really great but I still think analog drive pedals sound a bit better and certainly feel better to me but again. That depends on the drive. As much as I love my Tumnus Deluxe, I could not get a usable sound out of the Pinnacle Deluxe v2 (also from Wampler). Wrong distortion "texture" for me, way to bright in general and weird feel to me yet all thye demos of it I'd heard sounded great. The JHS Angry CHarlie which is a MIAB JCM800 typoe drive gor me closer to the distortion sound I wanted. But the Revv G4 is just what I had been wanting all this time.
In the end, all a matter of taste of course :)
That just sold Me on the G4 though I’m grabbing the R4 by DemonFx . Having a Joyo Uzi and Dark Flame, I can’t believe how close they sound to the real counterparts they are cloning. I was on the fence with the pinnacle, G4 should Do Me right
@@adamstein9333 The G4 emulates the Revv Generator 120's Red channel though, very different than a JCM800 or a Marshall in general although I think it has a similar mid bark. But the G4 is way more versatile than other drives I've had because of the aggression switch. And it just feels great to me.
@@StephaneBergeronPixelyzed You’re absolutely right. The JCM 800 modded marshall or Friedman BE OD is cloned by Joyo Uzi. Dark Flame is the G3. DemonFx make exact replica clones and call them the R3, and R4, which You said You had the G4 (a pedal that I wish I could afford right now, but I will have to settle with the R4, same circuitry and packaging, also Guptech does the Same thing with the G2, G3, G4, (G5 is the Diezel Preamp) and the G8. The design of pedals virtually are different however same circuitry’s and they don’t have a cease and desist order because of the blatant ripoff. They are Called the VEJ series and they make a 3 Pedal monster of the G2 G3 and G4! It huge! I have not played the Revv G4 and want it very bad but really haven’t heard to many good demos! Can You tell Me about it? If it’s anything like a Rectifier in a Box I am Sold. I didn’t mean any confusion.
@@adamstein9333 Well it's hard to describe a tone with words ;) The G4 is the highest gain of the Revv pedals but, to me, it' also the most versatile. Like it's channel on the Gen 120 (as well as the G3 and the Purple channel on the 120), it has an aggression switch that changes both the gain structure and voicing of the distortion.
The only other pedal I know that is a bit like that but is indeed closer to a Marshall is the JHS "The AT" (Andy Timmons signature Angry Charlie). That one has a wattage switch that also changes the gain structure and the saturation of the pedal. The G4 aggression switch is a bit like that but has a greater effect on EQ.
To me distortion often comes down to "texture" and the G4 is pretty smooth and feels very "chewy" under the fingers. That's another way it's similar to the JHS AT to me (which I own as well). The Pinnacle is not like that and has a harder tone with a "coarser" texture. The G4 also has a full 3 band EQ which helps sculpt the tone further. Check out a few demos although they can be misleading in different amps.
Don't know if you have one or heard the Revv Gen Red model in one of the Line 6 Helix devices. They modelled a Mark II Generator. The Red channel on the current Mark III Generators sounds pretty different to me but I see the resemblance between the Helix Rev Gen Red model and the G4. Don't know if that helps ;)
Good luck!
Speaking of that, DemonFx also clones the At plus but they call it the @ and it’s Identical as well. Fortin has already tried suing them and they’re Grind 33 and Guul has been seized. You have some amazing gear and could only dream of the Pedals and Amps/multi effects Your speaking of. Your already sold Me on the G4 and the AT plus, and Yes I have heard of Helix’s Revv sims and they are quite awesome. Because of this discussion I’m going to buy helix Native tonight! I am a gear head and have Lost, had stolen, sold, broken and repeat for 30 plus years now of S Tier Gear. These Days I can only afford budget gear and unfortunately have to digress to purchasing Clones. I’m aware of all the Gear You speak of and knowledgeable about every piece of equipment You have mentioned which makes Me almost want to beg to ask You more because I have seen all the demos and have horrible G.A.S. For My second Floor rig (yep no amp yet lol) I plan on getting the G4, and AT plus clone and then ABY to helix native . I have had a toss up about the Pathos, Pinnacle Deluxe, Walrus Eras and Ages, Bogner Ubershall pedal, MXR EVH 5150, Ceres preamp, new AMT Legend 3 Tube pedals, Surh Riot and the Westminster 2716. If You are familiar with any of these can You point Me in the right direction? I have never had tumnes, but familiar with Jan Ray, Klon, OCD, and other transparent stackable overdrives. Out of the Gear I named or if You could tell Me of something Better, I am needing a new Preamp and Overdrive and the ones I listed seem to be the Best from the content I’ve seen. Oh I almost forgot… Northern Mauler or Shawn Tubbs Tilt by Revv? Sorry to bother You I’m just kinda inspired by how Much great gear you have and You explained the nuances/textures/tones in words very well. Thank You
For me it's the drives. I have a Boss ME70 and a line 6 HD300. Neither of which is new. I like the idea of the Boss ME70 ,that its like a set of stomp boxs.What I really dislike is that the drives don't clean up using the guitar's volume knob. If that wasn't the case it would be fine for me. The line 6 is better like that but I'm not a menus guy. The downside to pedals are that a board is bulkier and heavier ( depending on how many you have)
I think there’s more of a sonic difference the player can notice more than a listener, I didn’t like most of the drives from the Helix when it first came out and used drives pedals,now I found a combination within the Helix that suites me and not expect any of the drives in the helix to be exact copies of the real deal but will do the “thing” close enough.
Ooohhh k, really interesting, I definitely preferred the A version, especially for the reverb, though I had the impression the two were not exactly matched for volume which would throw it off? Version B in the reverb certainly worked but was a bit less crystalline and popping out. The wildcard I would say was version B. Had it been played with a looper to be exactly the same I reckon it would have been more difficult to distinguish. The verb for sure took it, the drives oddly I wouldn’t say I had any particular preference for either way, probably due the drive itself. Not my cuppa? Really well done video though either way .
To my ear, they sound very close. Two guitars don't sound the same, even string age or size changes sound/tone. With Multi-FX you get so much more. If you have one pedal you LOVE, use it with a Multi-FX. No pedal or guitar will get me close to JC tone. I just need more focused practice.
OK, maybe I'm just lazy, but the reveal didn't reveal anything. Just tell us "A" or "B".
Yes. That is correct.
I really prefer a. Dunno which one it is yet. On both reverb and distortion. Has way more clarity and definition
Before watching the "solution" I clearly preferred the reverb of the HX (my taste).
In before watching your thoughts, straight after the demos, I prefer reverb A by a HUGE margin and drive A by a hair. Great playing though and both sounds are perfectly usable. But that reverb A, man.
Would have been neat to hear them separated by channel. Helix left, "analog" right.
Firstly, having spent my budget on an HX Effects *and* a Stomp XL in the past year, I'm pissed that every time I hear your play through the Mark 3, I wish I had the funds, environment, and *chops* to justify getting one. 8-) Okay, about the comparison, what stood out the most to me is how noisy the Walrus is. It was also a lot brighter than the Helix verb tone. I wonder if there was a high-end boost in the Walrus (perhaps affecting the direct tone?), a levels issue, or a high-end cut in the Helix, that could explain this difference. I found the hiss really distracting. I tend to like darker tones (despite my 60-yr-old ears), so I found the Helix reverb tone more pleasing anyway, but I couldn't live with the hiss from the Walrus, esp. at its price point. -Tom
I would love it if you could borrow a strum in Big sky and show us how to make every tone in there on HX. I bet you could get a dozen or more videos out of it. Do you have a friend who has a big sky?
In my experience, I could get away with an effects processor for any sound except distortion. I found that it was hard to get a good tone with distortion thought an effects processor and would have to rely on my amp or deal with an okay sounding distortion sound.
Also, effects processors seem to lack in color or depth. To the normal ear, one wouldn't notice the difference. To tone chasers, you'll definitely hear the difference.
Device B melted me
Modelers are not for everyone. They do, as stated offer a lot of advantages. The other thing that these kind of conversations are always about bias toward one thing vs. the other and why it's better. This is all one big pool of tools for creating music. Choose what interest's you if you decide your sound is something else do it, and don't let your bias choose for you. As demonstrated, you have a high likelihood of surviving the experience with either setup. So, lets respect everyones preference and play some guitar!
I think it's fair to say that we're at a point where both devices will accomplish our creative goals. We should all just accept it and start making some music.
Really liked the slo here. The OD was close enough for me not to care.
The drives were so different sounding. The helix sounded like a dimed marshal inspired tone and the Ibanez sounded like a one.
The feeling of analog pedals no one can explain a million of sound wave no one can't explain a superb, a HX is Good can stand alone
Not a fair comparison, John could play on a 1999 Line 6 Flextone original, and it would still sound sharp as anything.
Different tools for different jobs. If you compare 3 different TS style pedals, each is going to have its own flavor. You pick the one that is right for the task at hand. I'll probably never sell my pedals, but I rarely use them since the Helix. One isn't necessarily better than the other...just different.
Love the Helix. But for some reason I cannot get into the reverbs. Not sure if it's the actual sound or my preference to play with real knobs over menus. And I do think there are too many parameters for the delays and reverbs. Although I'm sure one day I'll probably flip flop on my position here. But I have the Wampler Metaverse and love it in the FX loop. So simple, beautiful sounds, and the benefit of midi programming if I need to incorporate into my presets.
What was your amp/speaker/mic you were using? Settings for reverb and tape? That sounds glorious
The sound that we hear on your channel when you play, is it direct out or a miked cab?
Puppies!!! And on a side note, I'm not fooling with any pedals or patch cables, or power supplies. People cannot pick out a pedal ever in a blind test.
I’m saying A is the “real” pedals, but I’m also convinced my preference for “real” drive pedals is totally unjustified. Especially when you get into a mix.
Amazing video!! More shoot outs please! 🎉
individual pedals for life for me.
6:00 those 2 look like Seattle Seahawks colors.
I preferred:
Reverb: A
Dirt: A + Wildcard
I can easily tell the difference in my Strymon pedals versus Helix, but for all other advantages Helix wins hands down
The Helix doesn't do one thing well imho... no amp sounds to speak of and no pedal sounds to speak of. Kinda generic sounding all around.
YES
I've owned a Helix Floor but now own a HX Stomp. I think the delays, reverbs and many of the modulation effects are fine. However, the OD, Distortion and Fuzz effects do not sound as good as the real thing in my opinion. I now use real OD, Distortion and Fuzz pedals in front of my HX Stomp, running it either with a real amp or direct using the HX amp models.
Oh Caroline chord progression?
Noisy stage…. Ripping gig….who cares, both work…. I’ve heard that Bats are able to hear the difference in the 96 Gaz-zillion hertz zone on a dark night in Timbuktu! Honestly, bedroom warriors. Plug in and go play on a stage, with people.
Answer: yes. That being said, anyone that uses an actual pedalboard is a monumental clown.
To me, the Helix drive sounded better than the real drive.
Hey, you have a lot of tube amps. I thought you were a digital gear advocate
I was able to detect (or rather place correct bets) which ones were HX... to my surprise, because I'm bad at guitar tone tweaking. I thought I wouldn't catch a difference, but there was one. Every tone in this vid was nice and pleasant, who cares about "worse" if it's 5% at most in tone, while playing skill can make 1000% difference ;D
I had one and after a week I gave it away .. couldn’t stand the thing
Yes, real pedals sound and feel better, at least low gain to high mid gain pedals. It only becomes more of a moot point at the highest levels of gain. I don't find Helix inspiring at all. Plug directly into a real amp and pedals and it's night and day for inspiration.
No.
I think real pedals definitely sound better than the helix pedals. Sorry John.