You smite too much in D&D 5e - Advanced guide to Smite
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- You Smite too much! Cast and try different things!
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Crit fishing builds are bad: • Crit fishing builds ar...
Wrathful Smite: • D&D 5E Advanced Guide ...
Command: • D&D 5E Advanced guide ...
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I'll contest your Smite>Bless in tier 1 claim by noting that you probably didn't give bless enough credit! After all, trying to burst a target down in tier 1 also means you risk missing.
For example, take a Level 3, Longsword Dueling Paladin+2 Casters with Firebolt.
Attack+on hit first Smite: 1d8+5+2d8, 18.5 damage on hit, approx ~10 damage on average vs AC 15.
Bless: 0.15*2d10 = approx 1.5 damage immediately, and 3 per turn afterwards. Damage wise, it'll catch up in 4 turns.
And, this is the worst example I could possibly give for bless damage. There's no other martials, no BA attacks or Extra Attack, no PAM, no -5/+10, nothing. Still almost as good as your best case.
And this isn't accounting for the fact that the saving throw half of of Bless is BETTER than the attack roll half, especially when most of the things you desperately want to burst are saving throw based. Take that enemy wizard for example, you've just improved the chances of your team saving against their nastiness by like 15%, on top of the extra damage!
Speaking of extra damage, you dunno how right you are about -5/+10 affecting Bless value
As an example, Level 5, with a Longsword Paladin+GWM Fighter+Fire Bolt Wizard
Smite: 17.6 damage on turn 1
Bless: 7.2 damage on turn 1, ~10 damage on turn 2.
That's only 1 extra round before you reach parity with Smiting, on top of the saving throw buff, on top of, you know, every future round afterwards.
Bless is insane. You should cast it more.
This is correct. Thank you! Pinned.
4 rounds is a lot, smite might allow you to eliminate a creature in 1-2 rounds which means you can now double team another creature. You also have to maintain a concentration on bless, and if you are a front liner you might lose it in the same round you cast it. Blessing a wizard isn't too bad but you reduce the damage part of bless, and bless being concentration doesn't allow you to use cooler paladin spells like wrathful smite, aura of vitality, crusaders mantle etc.
@@PackTactics Also Paladins use divine focus not arcane focus. Divine focus doesn't need to be held at all it just need to be out and exposed to work
Bless really isn't that good for paladins, friend;
1.) It's only that good if there are sufficient targets. The average party size is 4-5 players. Assuming half of them prefer ranged combat, there's a good chance they won't be in range of the spell when it's cast. This is doubly true as a paladin, as paladins are almost always near the front lines. If you're only getting 2 targets with bless, it's not nearly as good.
2.) Bless doesn't actually add damage. It adds to-hit. If your chances to hit are already very good-as is quite common for physical attacking classes-then what you want is damage. Which is why the GWM feat is so common; an excess of to-hit, without enough damage. Paladins don't need to worry about low damage, because they can smite.
3.) It requires concentration, which means the chances of the paladin maintaining it as a front liner are very low. Either they'll be fighting a single target, which will deal a lot of damage and require a high DC constitution save to make the check-which paladins aren't proficient in-or they'll be fighting several smaller targets, and if they all attack, then the paladin will be called on to make many such saves.
4.) Bless has somatic components, meaning you have to have a free hand open to cast it. While you can draw OR sheath a weapon as part of another action, doing both in the same turn is an action to perform. Meaning you have to choose between having a weapon in hand, not using a shield, or casting bless. If you prefer a shield as a paladin-which is Very common-then it's a less attractive option.
5.) If someone else in the party has the bless spell, the benefits don't stack. If that party member is in a better position to use it than the paladin is-quite likely, as the paladin will be on the front line-then casting bless does nothing. Beings as bless IS a very good spell, it's quite likely someone else will have it.
6.) Bless isn't guaranteed damage, but still requires a slot. If a paladin makes use of bless, but no one benefits from it before they lose concentration, the spell slot is wasted. Smite is only wasted if you didn't need the extra damage to deliver the killing blow, which is something easily avoided by paying attention to the amount of damage already dealt.
7.) Once you reach level 5, Smite receives a huge damage boost, as it can then happen twice a turn. It requires double the slots, but if it means ending a threat in one turn it's generally very worth it. Bless, by contrast, means spending a turn not attacking at all.
8.) Your calculations on damage don't account for fighting undead or fiends, which receive additional damage from smite. As undead and fiends are very common enemies, your calculations become wrong on a regular basis.
Conclusion: Let the cleric cast bless, paladins have better things to do with their slots. Like cast Shield of Faith as a bonus action, then draw their sword and charge into combat to smite first-turn.
@@Necroes You shouldn't smite twice in one turn unless it's a big obvious boss enemy and it's on turn 1-2. Don't make it a habit to smite twice a turn.
Yeah it doesn't show undead or finds because that's not every enemy. So this is for more enemies that you will face. So no the calcs aren't wrong.
You can in fact take a hand off a two handed weapon to do somatic components and then put your hand back. The only issue is if you're using a sword and board.
"Should you smite on every crit? No!"
Me: "It's part of my oath, I don't make the rules"
and you should always shout : "For Kingdom and Glory!" when it happens otherwise you will break the oath
“You’re the one who agreed to the oath!”
@@KajiinSkyrim FOR THE EMPEROR
should you smite every crit? no.... but it sure as heck does feel nice to do it anyways!.... so what if the boss only had 12 HP left, smiting them down for 2d8+5 slashing damage, +10d8 radiant damage still feels nicer as you hitting for that average 59 damage compared to the average 23 damage you'd do from 2d8+5 slashing, +2d8 radiant as an 11th level paladin. And if you get good rolls the feeling of hitting that poor creature for over 70 damage XD!
You also took Oath of Critfishing?
Golly, Wrathful Smite is an action Wisdom *check?* With frightened that's amazing! :OOO
But thank you for bringing up the Damage Now vs. Damage Later argument. There's absolutely right times to smite, especially if it's to drop a big damage dealer early. Always a fan of your work o7
Fan of your work to! Sub to Wintry Wyvern, guys!
Yes. Only the initial save is a save, further ones are checks. This means they get a disadvantage, but also that they *can't have proficiency* with it, even if they are proficient in Wis saves. Not only that, it takes *an action* to try to end the effect. Wrathful Smite is one of the best single-target control spells in the game.
You can actually use divine smite on top of wrathful smite given that wrathful smite is a bonus action and divine smite is included in the attack action with no action required to activate it. Same with eldritch smite if you dip into warlock so if you stack those up you can at most do 5 smites per turn
Stacking divine eldritch and smite spell on one attack
and divine and eldritch on another.
That’s potentially 12d8 and knock the target prone (or 13d8 if undead or fiend) + smite spell damage and effect (5d10 for banishing smite) + weapon damage.
Assuming you’re using a greatsword and the creature is undead or fiend. That’s on average 73 to 83 damage and you get to knock the target prone depending on if you use searing smite or banishing smite. Searing smite is 73 on average for initial damage but it has a lingering effect of fire damage each round so after 4 rounds the average damage would be above 83.
Subbed, not because you said so, but because of the profile pic
@@someoneonyoutube8622 become randy savage and just give then the noogy of GOD
My DM noticed I was crit-fishing on my paladin, saving my smites for when I hit a crit, and also noticed that at level 14 I hadn't changed any of my magic items out since I'd gotten a pretty standard loadout that worked well for me, and she wanted to give me something that mattered. She gave me a vorpal axe. Now, if I crit, I decapitate the dude I'm fighting, which removes any desire I ever had to save my smites, since I know that my crits are usually OHKOs anyway now, so I feel a lot more empowered to use em just... whenever.
Nat 20 instakill is not OP at all lmao
@@keykiq It is absolutely OP, but our DM has a habit of giving us a bunch of magic items and then just giving us really strong encounters anyway XD
This just opened me up to actually using my smites more liberally is all, because I absolutely was that dude that always waited for a crit.
@@MissingNovice If it works at your table, good for u =)
Good call on not upgrading until you get something serious. Some of our best items don't seem all that special to others.
She sounds like a lovely DM!
My current character is a Paladin of Redemption so I've been really sparse on actually smiting things. I use almost all of my spell slots on utility or buffs with my only smites coming when I get an impactful crit, so I've really come to appreciate the paladin spell list. It's got some really nice versatility, and when I'm real dumb and prepare a whole bunch of tracking/divination spells I still can fall back on the reliable damage of smite.
I think I did the same thing, though I had just played a paladin so much that I had an idea of what spells worked with my play style. Though one of my funnier moments with my Redemption Paladin was getting Friends cast on me in a tournament match and told to stop my party from attacking him. So I cast Calm Emotions, popped my Emissary of Peace for the bonus to Persuasion, and rolled to convince them not to attack. I knew it wasn't going to work. The others even gave me props for quickly coming up with it.
And I used to do an arena thing. I quickly became noteworthy despite Redemption seeming like a non-combat subclass. I would use my different abilities to control some elements of how people were getting damaged. Besides knowing how to wreck others on my own. There were various bets that would be set up. I would use Rebuke the Violent in free-for-alls when one PC would attack another just so they'd also take damage. I might have done the same if there was an additional NPC monster and a PC attacked it. I'd use Aura of the Guardian when it was down to the wire with three of us depending on turn order. One PC would attack a weak one, so I'd take the damage. The weak PC would attack the other to hopefully drop them, and I would come in to drop the weak PC. All about knowing your class.
Same here... my only smite so far has been a thunderous smite to break a grapple that would have otherwise killed me next turn.
Why do you choose quarterstaff instead of a spear? Yes, some spellcasting focus are quarterstaff, but paladin dont use arcane / druidic focus, he uses holy symbol that dont need to be holded in hand, they can wear it in their shields (So warcaster is not necessary anyways). Also a Spear can be thown if need to and works with polearm master too.
Because spears don't work for the extra 1d4 bonus damage. *Only* glaives, halberds, and quarter staffs. Pikes are excluded, and as such so would spears. So, you could use a spear you're gonna arrive at a lower dpr.
@@Storywalker4 Have you been living under a rock? The errata that added spears to polearm master would've become a greatwyrm by now if it were a dragon
@@io6741 It would appear I misremembered. I didn't realize it said *both instances.* In which case, unless you're using shillelagh, there's no reason not to take the spear. Weird then than pikes are excluded.
@@Storywalker4 spear was added to pole arm master after an errata
You still need to look at warcaster anyway if your DM is enforcing free hand required for spells with no material component
I'm actually going to play a paladin soon for the first time, and I appreciate now having an idea of when it is better to smite or cast a spell.
Even if smite is nerfed to only a d8, it still has THE best Action Economy on the game for burst damage as a free action on hit
Especially if you have a monk on the team to stun lock your heavier opponents.
If you want to eat all of your slots as fast as possible though, you can cast (wrathful, thundering, or whatever) Smite, which lasts until you hit, when you get your instant cast of Divine Smite. That's effectively 2 spellcasts plus a melee.
I think one additional complication when it comes to bless is that it's concentration. Taking even small amounts of damage can waste the spell, whereas smite is never wasted. And considering you will be in melee, it's very likely you'll be making multiple checks a round. At least until you get to level 6 and / or take war caster.
Once you hit lvl 6 the paladin gets the equivalent to proficiency in every save so casting concentration checks becomes more worthwhile. I usually max charisma (or at least get it to 18) since it is pretty easy to get a belt of giant strength or at least gauntlets of ogre power by lvl 8 which is when youd be getting to 20 str anyways
Awesome analysis, as always! I appreciate how you expressed your goal/hypothesis to kill Smite.
Guys, go sub to Flutes loot!
@@PackTactics
Im playing The Wild Beyond the Witchlight as an Ancient Oath Paladin, and literally, you tips and insights about Smite and paladin spells are the sole reason of my party's survival. Im at lvl 4 atm and only used smite twice in the whole campaign (Only on crits when the damage was necessary), because i was too busy shutting down Bosses or Dangerous creatures with my Smite spells like Wrathful Smite or Esnaring Strike from Ancient Paladin!
Thank you my dear Kobold! lol!
YES with the quarterstaff. This nugget of info clicked into my head a few years ago while discussing builds with my brother, especially with the fact that it can benefit from Dueling and be treated as a casting focus. It is such a powerful weapon when taking PAM.
There is nothing called Smiting too much as a Paladin. I shall deliver the Divine Punishment in Your Holy Name!
Wait, wait wait wait wait wait, is that YOU playing the bagpipes in these videos? That's amazing!
Yes!
I won't lie, I kinda miss your character voice. I love hearing a kobold explaining how I'm playing wrong was enjoyable.
You smite too much! - said the blue Kobold. No I don't! - responded the paladin after leaving the poor kobold dead form way too much smite force trauma.
I know taking a round to cast bless a the start of combat might be inefficient but imagine smite+bless.
Sounds like extra dpr if you ask me
Yes but you know. I dont have to tell people that bless + smite is good! I really focus on round 1 more than anything.
I mean hopefully you have a Cleric and/or Bard. Party comp matters.
Thinking about your latest video: My favorite part of the Paladin spells isn't about optimizing damage, but making myself the favorite player at the table with bless, PfG&E, Shield of Faith etc.
Hey, Pathfinder player for like 5-6 years now here. In Pathfinder the smite class ability has a separate pool you get at level one and can only smite 1 creature per use as long as it's Evil and you get about 5 uses of it a day at level 20 (each use lasts until the target dies, the paladin reaches 0 HP, it cancels the smite or smites a different creature)... and you get the spellcasting at lvl 4... Now recently started to play a kobold paladin and while I appreciate that smite does not discriminate, but I immediately did noticed that DnD Paladin's have to take more care of their resources since smite consumes your spells. I'd say... once or twice tops if the encounter is pretty difficult seems worth it for me. Don't get me wrong, funny numbers and lots of dices is great XD but I just say... blow them on the boss before taking a long rest XD not just on a small goblin using a rusty dagger.
If you really want to get a thing dead fast, wrathful smite is a bonus action and can thus be combined with regular smite, this costs 2 1st level spell slots and is thefore more of a panic button when a creature needs to die asap, but 2d8+1d6 extra damage is a nice bonus in an emergency.
IIRC [Adjective] Smite stacks with Divine Smite. Divine Smite procs when you hit. [Adjective] Smite remains a charge on your weapon until you hit. These are both bonus damage onto your attack, meaning it all multiplies on crit. Buffing spells can be cast on you by somebody else, provided it's part of your team strategy. Make somebody else cast Bless. And yes, sometimes it does pay to have everybody huddle around outside the door before kicking it in and ruining your DM's villain speech.
Dear palidins, there are two other pillars of play and your spell list caters to it, also your charisma caster so your social play game is also going to be strong.
Dude yah, I played a conquest paladin and discovered the power of wrathful smite. Its such a cool interaction and I feel like so many people miss the fact that its a check.
The only math I need is adding up all of these D8s. Try to stop me, _you won't._
Smite is for Paladins who want to be the center of attention/MVP of melee DPR.
Spells are for Paladins who realize the real role of a paladin is to be a front line all-rounder.
The caveat to this is, if you're a DM who is tired of Paladins that just spam smite, it might be because you're not doing enough to build encounters that are more complex than a bunch of front line enemies.
Present encounters that can threaten EVERY PC by including magic users, archers, AND front line enemies.
If the paladin has to be concerned about the wellbeing of his back line, he will think twice about using his slots on a smite vs using buff spells that can keep his soft allies safe.
1st level slots outside of *Command* and *Franktuary* (If you're a real Paladin or Redemption it's on your list) are for "Set then forget" spells. You can set one up, and your other slots are free for smiting. (Don't use *Cure Wounds*, it's bad, and we should probably get a video on how bad healing is in 5E) Since they're all concentration once you have one set n' forget the rest are free for whatever.
I'd argue *Aid* isn't worth a 2nd level Paladin slot, and if you play right you won't need to re-summon your steed. Since outside of *Bless*, 1st level Paladin spells don't upcast well, your 2nd levels are for smites and smites only. *Lesser Restoration* is good in-combat, but half of its function is covered by *Lay on Hands* removing poison/disease, so it may not be relevant.
3rd level has a lot more spells that are worth casting, so those are dedicated to spells.
yeah many paladins really don't use their actual spells. my DM was actually surprised to see me often prefer spells like shield of faith over smiting and well he wasn't surprised when I took sorcerer levels (divine soul so I can cast healing word with charisma. Yes that was the reason I dipped into sor. Healing word, more spell slots and a bit more staying power with shield. i also picked up booming blade and quickened and twinned spell). But I actually only smite against bosses. and bosses straight up eat my highest spell slot I don't need for healing as a smite. meaning of my 3 level 3s I will at best smite 2 and keep the third as an emergency cure wound or healing word.
Same with enemies like ghosts as you mentioned. the type of thing you don't fuck around with. Generic monster encounters take way longer than boss fights if you play your paladin correctly.
Starting next levle (Pal 5 sor 5) I will actually start smiting on round two, but that is simply because I will need round one to cast haste. (twinned spell haste on me and the ranger will on average deal more damage than BA hasting and attacking 3 times myself even with smites. Sure my round one damage wil be insane but over the course of an encounter I expect the ranger to make up for the three attacks I missed out on especially as they for sure won't be all smites unless it is a monster that'S weak to radiant damage. ) and it's often not very nice to end up completely empty after a single fight because you blew through all your spell slots.
For spells, yeah. Having protection from fucking everything, as i like to call protection from good and evil and not using it is stupid. Shield of faith is a good buff too. As I said I surprised my DM many times when I used these spells. and well the offensive smite spells, no fan of them but making them flee with wrathful smite is a good idea. and if you are on the early levels (below level 5) and you REALLY have to take something down, combining a smite spell with the actual divine smite is a stupid amount of burst damage. I admit that's what I had thunderous smite prepared for as another boost to melee damage to DPS down a tough enemy but again that only is viable in low level unless you're a pure paladin and willing to sacrifice one of your higher spell slots for that)
I have a dumb idea, like a really dumb one. Oath breaker and hexblade, hexblade curse then channel divinity scare them. Next turn(this is the dumb part) wrathful smite as a bonus action, and if you crit then divine and eldritch smite them.
I know this i gonna say cannot be accounted for the maths done but:
I'm currently playing a multiclass of Paladin (6)/Cleric Order (8) so I can cast Bless as a bonus action, allowing one of my pals to make an attack with his reaction, with the bless on it. My action still free so I can still attack or cast a cantrip, with the extra 1d8 psychic damage (once) on top of potencial smites. Is worst than trying to nova with Spirit Shroud (upcast at 5) but at the long run, it shoud perform even better, specially with a crossbow expert/sharpshooter or a rogue on the party.
Regarding Protection from Evil and Good. It's a great spell, should always be ready whenever there is a chance of fighting those creatures. But don't forget you need the material component. Make sure you grab some holy water at every chance you get. It's worth it. My conquest paladin got his ass kicked by a vampire because he wasn't prepared with the material.
People use components?????
@@redrumssam5888 Uh... Yes they are required by RAW, unless they are both non-consumable and lack a gold cost. And such spells often have powerful effects to make up for the cost.
Wow, never in my life
@@redrumssam5888 Wait so you just skip the concept in your games? Wouldn't that make certain spells more overpowered, since you can use them far more readily?
0:35 My phone bugged out and thought i wanted to play "DOOM OST: The Only Thing They Fear is You" at the extra damage against fiends part, and you know what, that fits well.
in fairness if it's round 6, you were probably in a big fight and want to rest afterwards anyways. smiting the final boss for 50 damage more than you needed is just really fun.
I assume that your paladin is using a shield and a quarterstaff, in order to cast a spell without dropping your weapon you would need the war caster feat
I know the game plan is usually to do 6 or 7 lvls of paladin and then start taking levels of sorc or lock, but what are your thoughts on a paladin bard?
Also i think the paladin list is nice but way too small there are only 5ish good 1st lvl spells and 3ish good 2nd level spells the options are pretty small.
I'm Ill equiped to say. I don't have the experience nor looked deep into it. I have played a Bard up to level 12 but I have no idea if it mixes well with Paladin... Probably not but its an above decent option at least due to spells and spell progression. You're going to have some bonus action conflict with bardic unless you dont take PAM and grab Warcaster instead.
It works with any charisma caster, but you're still a melee character. Sorcerer lets you cast your spells as a bonus action without losing your attack action.
Also if you're a conquest paladin you don't even have to Multiclass to get "improved critical" assuming you get to level 20 that is
Invincible conqueror gives you 3 attacks per round that crit on a 19 or 20 not to mention resistance to all damage for a minute.
I understand not crit smitting on round 6, but here me out, its really really cool to roll 12d8 radiant damage on the lich.
Wait. So if you have a staff and shield you can cast spells without warcaster?
I just like bless because it's very spell slot efficient at higher levels. 9 damage isn't much at level 11, but +1d4 to hit is just as good now as it was at level 1. It's similar to shield and absorb elements in that way.
couldn't the dm have them flee using a disengage action as command 1 word and u can't state flee with no disengage?
I didn't take much new info from the video but here is a summary.
When playing a paladin, make sure you have concentration on somthing, then smite all you want
How about this as an idea for a weapon.
“Magic Sword” does NOT have the magic feature to its attacks.
But it’s special ability is that if somebody Crits with it they gain a spell slot. You cannot gain a spell slot in a level that you do not have spells in, and you gain the spell slot on a crit but before damage.
Basically you give this to the paladin. and it means all their standard spell slots are now open up for them to use any of their spells with.
The point of the sword is if you roll a Nat 20 you instantly get a spell slot you can spend on a Smite.
Is this a good idea for a homebrew item or is it too powerful?
"But Kobold..." At 6:35 the tweet is asking if the "druid quarterstaff" can be both a focus and a weapon. But I don't recall a quarterstaff being a divine docus... Can a Paladin or Cleric use it as such? Or can they get around such by etching into it the holy symbol of their faith?
Druid quarterstaff isn't a thing. Quaterstaff is. The Divine focus is the shield. So the reason why I value this so much is because eventually this paladin will progress into Sorc. You see what I mean?
@@PackTactics... clever lad. Making the most use of Charisma.
"You smite too much" Tomas never heard such bullshit before.
Smite is NEVER enough!
SMITE DIZ SHIT OUT OF HERETICS!
Arcane or Druidic focus not a Divine focus and Paladins are Divine casters so wouldn't the quarterstaff not work?
The biggest problem with paladins casting instead of smiting is concentration and their constitution has to take a backseat to strength/dexterity and charisma. Them being a front lines fighter they are getting hit alot as such they have more chances to drop concentration. Smite is just more reliable than casting a concentration spell.
Hello...if my Paladin uses two swords, and hit with both swords on the same round and decide to use one slot of devine smite first level, should I apply the bonus on both hits or only one? Thanks!
Me fighting a Great Sand Worm as a level 8 Vengeance Paladin be like:
“AAAAH-”
*gets eaten*
*Vow of Enmity to negate restrained*
*Smack, Crit, smite*
*smack, smite*
*gets regurgitated, avoiding acid damage*
*gets eaten again next turn*
As a Shin Megami Tensei player, I refuse to smite anything not sufficiency powerful, lest I run out of MP and have to go back to the barracks in Mikado.
Am I confusing something or don't you need a free hand for casting? How would that work without war caster if you have a shield and quarterstaff ?
You need a free hand to do the Somatic component. However, if a spell requires non-costly Material components, you can replace them with Focus. To use Focus, you need to hold it in hand, and it can be the same hand you use for the Somatic component. And staff can be used as such Focus.
"A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."
Because for Paladins, the Shield is their Spellcasting Focus.
As long as it's not a (V, S) spell, they can cast it with a Weapon and Shield in their hands.
Whats next? You sneak attack too much? You cast too many fire balls?
Smite all the kobolds, got it.
Tell that to my Paladin that never used Smite once
Mechanically you are correct, however I've never, ever, ever, been in a campaign where that degree of optimization was warranted or even desirable.
Is there a spell to just trap ghosts in a jar and toss it in an outhouse after what they did to one of my friends?
This is a very important question. More important than my question about crocogators and allidiles.
I know. Blasphemy.
Dedicating yourself to crit fishing is bad, but you have a 36% chance to crit on the first or second round with improved critical, higher with advantage. Not something to rely on, but getting an extra 9 damage out of smite 1 out of 3 combats is worth a feat when combined with the other benefits IMO.
People have asked how to build an archer paladin to which I respond the arcane archer already exists D&D over nerfed it. All it needs is a free feat with the subclass and everything moved down a level easy fix.
I don’t even have to watch this to say if you are a full caster with a Paladin dip it’s irrelevant and you probably don’t smite enough. Since the Tasha’s need to booming blade you’d think this would be less relevant but bladesingers got stupid buffed and dipping into Paladin as one is super worth if you can just meet the strenuous multiclass requirements.
If this is in reference to only Paladin or even the shit tier variant of smite that official Warlock got then people probably use smite more often than is efficient. However, my DM allows me to play with Curse Bringer. Within our combat only campaign he allows our divination wizard to rest for a crit for up to a year. Apologies but I'll take my guaranteed 20d8 damage over any other level 5 spell in the game without hesitation. Especially since I would be making that attack action anyways. Also, Hexblades get crits at an even higher rate than average, especially when you can get flanking for constant advantage. 19% for each attack. It's fairly reasonable to expect a crit every 3 or so rounds. If you also use GWM to get another attack some of those rounds it's way better than anything comparable. There are a lot of things that this basic analysis doesn't take into account but I'm 100% confident that with these conditions, using spell slots exclusively for smite is best. Especially after getting Mystic Arcanum.
I will say on a Haxadin, Smite is much cheaper to use. Taking Hexblade 1 then Paladin, you have essentially a "free" smite with your pact slot. But I refuse to play them because I just find pure Conquest Paladin to be more fun
I’m considering a Paladin for an upcoming Decent into Avernus campaign. I know this is off topic but which single-class subclass would you consider? I’m not a fan of multi-class, regardless of benefits. Thanks in advance and for the great content.
any Paladin with at least one Channel Divinity as a bonus action. Simple as that. Actions are for hitting and tanking, or: Bless! make sure you can cash unused CD for spell slots as a tasha's option, makes up for the weaker/situational channel divinities. You really want high Charisma. Sword and board.
Single class Avernus? Take Devotion. Turn fiends is bonkers. Great weapon with sacred weapon play nice.
If not Devotion then Crown. Spirit Guardians are just too nice to miss.
I'm a fan of using the Devotion channel Divinity to make up for the accuracy penalty from Great Weapon Master alongside bless.
yeahh imma say it now there is only 1 choice for the best fighting style for paladin. its blessed warrior. its an almost free way to get cantrips on paladin at level 2
I use smite way too much and because of that my character has developed the flaw reckless. seeing as she charges in combat constantly. everyone thinks that I'm playing her that way because that's how I am. I'm usually a support player that sits in the back with a bard or a cleric healing party. so I wanted to try front lining for once in a while. let's just say no one's getting any healing besides lay on hands this campaign unless it's in between fights.
This reminds me of my first ever d&d character. He was a paladin, but due to having 10 Charisma he only knew a single spell, Divine Favor. I never once used smite the entire campaign because I had too much fun with that spell and creative applications for it, which I think really does show that people are too focused on fistfuls of d8s to see the plethora of options at the Paladin's disposal.
*JESUS THAT VOICE IS ADORABLE-*
(0:03)
I love how literally all the math in favor of bless absolutely depends on your friends getting sharpshooter/gwm. Also 5% crit 9.75% with advantage. EvErYoNe ShOuLd KnOw ThAt. Bold statement from someone that had another person do the math for him on his video about mathematical analysis on DnD. My advice - just smite whenever you feel like it - game's supposed to be fun.
While great, I also like using all my spell slots at once to deal 6d6+8d8+6 damage in one stab. Though, my table accidentally made crit fishing a bit more viable by making Inspiration an auto-nat20.
RIP Cambion, didn't even last 2 rounds.
What?
@@camqu Rogue + Paladin. I cast Wrathful smite, struck with an ally nearby for sneak attack, used smite- which became 3d8 as a Cambion is a type of fiend- then doubling all the damage dice became that.
Though I guess the more accurate description is "dice stacking" rather than "crit fishing".
If I wanted to cast spells i'd play cleric
I once played a Paladin/Barbarian multiclass. I cast 2 spells.
Haha my friend just got divine smite in our campaign and we had to fight a boss demon in the next room right after.
Ladies and Gentlemen... *EXTEND* YOUR SPELL SLOTS! MAXIMUM RANGE!
I thought you could use Smite without involving a weapon, like Ultraman or something
The correct answer is smite then quicken spell fireball.
I always wondered why you would play a Barbarian, when you could just play Paladine lmao
"You shouldnt go for that round 6 crit smite, its overkill" bro thats WHY we smite on it
Overkill points go on the leaderboard. :D
Literally did this and my dm was like, "he had 5 hp left" I didn't bat an eye baby
@@Toad_lord69 My response: So he's dead, right??
@@salvadortoscano2534 not dead enough
@@mugenokami2201 Exactly
"Smite too much?" There is no such thing as too much smite! *BLASPHEMOUS!*
Cast a smite spell with your divine smite for maximum smite!… you will burn through all of your slots in just a few short bursts, so make sure to have your recovery time. Still, the sooner you end a fight the better!
H E R E T I C !
th-cam.com/video/IEGo41443iI/w-d-xo.html
Deus Vult!
Also applies to League of Legends Junglers
@@albertgore7435 TRUE!!!
wotc: thats a nice 1st level spell list for the plaladin...
...would be a shame if they were oh I don't know ... ALL concentration.
The bane of my existence, at least once I noticed.
at least bless improves your concentration saving throws... which is a real blessing early on. Ok... I'll show myself out for that one!
Just bless and hold it. Everything else is smite.
When I played a ranged paladin this was the bane of my existence.
“You don’t need to smite on round six, it is overkill.”
My party fighting an adult dragon at level 10: “are you sure about that, because I’m not”
That was my first thought haha
Always make the most out of a crit especially vs a boss that survived to round 6
John cena “are you sure about that”
Level 10? How about level 8, like in Hoard of the Dragon Queen, then again 1 level later.
At lvl 10?
They should be making an absute joke out of that dragon lol seen lvl 6 parties mop up adults
Mage: casts Hold Person
Paladin (bellows to the heavens): It's free real estate.
i would drop my shield and take out my other short sword
Had this happen the other day, round 1, 1 hit kill with 52 damage. It was glorious!
Smite early. Smite often. Smite life. Smite coffin.
Hold Person? Smite both them.
Smite wizard and then held person.
Praise god. Smite god.
Smite until it's worth it, smite until it's perfect!
Paladin: "I cast Command!"
DM: "Ok. What command do you give them?"
Paladin: "Run." *heavy music*
You just made me think of this scene. th-cam.com/video/M1_Ir6iNSm4/w-d-xo.html
Dude, setting up my phone to play *heavy music* would be the highlight of the session. More of my NPCs will have Command from now on.
my favorite smite quote is "smit never misses"
(because you declare smite after a hit, therefore you can't miss)
Well actually you declare it after the roll, but before the DM says if it hits or misses. But unless you're dumb or the enemy you're fighting has unexpectedly high AC, you're still unlikely to miss.
@@megashark1013 "Starting at 2nd Level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon Attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage."
A hit should be a hit, no?
@@megashark1013 no, it’s after you hit.
@@megashark1013 oof
@@megashark1013 oof
I Smite too much? I Smite every time I interact with objects, eat food? smite the food with your fork, your dm might say nooo you cant do that your foods not a creature. But one day that object will be a mimic and you will have saved yourself a lot of trouble.
You find your tongue adheres strangely to the peanut butter sandwich.
Noooooo my ultimate survival guide has failed
Im only 7 months into dnd, and im running my own game for friends. Your shit helps balance combat so much thanks man. Keep the videos coming, 10/10
Damn, thats good, that makes me feel good! Thank you! I haven't even given any DM advices but I do know what you mean. If you understand the players and what their features and spells can do then you'll have a good idea what to throw at them and what not to. Before I got into DMing, I just calculated classes. It was hell but I'm happy I did it and now I slowly want to share my player knowladge to everyone both from experience practically and theoretically. This helps everyone grow including myself. Thank you!
I find this hilarious honestly.
My favorite Paladin I’ve ever played is a BLUE Kobold who’s whole battle plan is magic weapon, the devotion pally sacred weapon ability, and just swings away. I try to save my smites for the nat 20 (as you can decide AFTER you roll when to use it)
For anyone who read this far: he is called “Sir Pelius, the Blue”
That's funny because I have a kobold rogue the party picked up that ended up getting knighted for killing a half dragon. His name is Sir Trabik Blueslayer.
Never played a kobold, but I have a half-elf paladin. Took on animated scarecrows in a 2v1 at level... 5? It's been a bit. He killed each with one attack with searing smite on the first, and divine on the second. Yeah... and this is a dex-based paladin, BTW.
Funny enough, we fought 6 ghosts as 4 level 8 players without a cleric and it was awesome! (Complicated and deadly, but awesome)
I would argue you want the order cleric to cast bless on the paladin with voice of authoritah and the pally to bonus action shield of faith and rush to the middle of things
You wouldn't need to argue.
You would just need to find a table with a pally and a cleric. Often times, depending on build, they can fulfill the same role so some tables might not see a need for both or there just aren't any players interested in playing those classes.
A paladin never smites too much, nor do they smite too little.
A paladin smites precisely when they mean to.
I say you smite too little. Always Smite, keep smiting, even if the situation is bad for it. Talking to the noble? SMITE HIM. Fighting a Deva? SMITE HIM. Exploring the ancient tomb of a dead god? SMITE THE TOMB.
There is also Thunderous Smite. It deals 2d6 thunder damage (a little bit less than Divine Smite) and, against a Strength save, you make the enemy prone and push 10 feet away. While on some situations this may be bad, like when you have a group of sharpshooters, but on a group of melee fighters and if the push doesn't put people too far away, it can be really powerful. You have both the buff to hit from Bless and comparable damage to Smite.
And the question of Smite or Not also depends a lot of the subclass you are playing. An Oath of Vengeance could justify spending only one spell slot with Bless or Shield of Faith and go insane with advantage attacks with his weapon attacks. But an Oath of Redemption or an Oath of Ancients paladin should consider more their options, since their spells from 1st and 2nd spell level are really potent. Things like Sanctuary, Hold Person, Ensnaring Strike, Moonbeam and Misty Step are all amazing options to have.
Smite all the things. When in doubt, smite.
Last time I play I was a paladin of conquest and one of my favorite moments was using thunderous smite to launch an enemy off a balcony into a gladiator pit. He was promptly killed by the monsters meant for us.
Never played a Paladin but I do know as a Cleric I tend to upcast bless to cover as much of my group as possible and the amount of attacks I have seen go from misses by 1-2 that suddenly turn into full damage sneak attacks, paladin smites, etc is pretty crazy. Our GM has started to just zerg me as much as possible to break my concentration simply because he gets so annoyed at how much work Bless has been doing at our table.
6:42
Staff is only Arcane/Druidic focus. It won't work for Paladins as they need a Holy Symbol for Focus. Some DMs may allow using a shield with it as a focus, however. But generally, for Paladins there's no difference between spear or quarterstaff.
I was thinking the same thing
Obviously the Paladin eventually multiclasses out to warlock or sorc.
@@PackTactics Perhaps.
However, I remembered another thing - that if the spell doesn't have Material Components, you RAW can't cast it with Focus. So "Quarterstaff is a Focus" would work only if the spell *does* have Material Component, while War Caster, which lets you perform Somatic component with weapons in hands, works only if the spell *doesn't* have Material component. So those two aren't interchangeable, you still need War Caster.
@@antongrigoryev6381 Correct. Component rules are really stupid.
I think for clerics and paladins alike they should be able to use their spell focus without hands as why would you need to hold and amulet to cast a spell with it. Additionally, what exactly constitutes a holy symbol. However, I had a lot of fun playing a paladin with the tavernbrawler feat using my religious text as an improvised weapon which the DM made it do 1d10 radiant damage and allowed it to benefit from great weapon master because my character constantly said god is great no one realizing the Arabic translation of the term.
There is also divine favor, which is just baby's first smite. It's very conservative, lasting a minute and adding a d4 radiant to all weapon attacks. If you make a combo that allows for a bonus action attack, like duel wielding, then you get to basically add 3d4 (similar to d12), assuming you hit all attacks. If you average out and hit two, then you get 2d4 (similar to d8), if you just get 1 attack, it's a little boost to your already shitty turn. And if you get none, then you haven't wasted any spell slots by doing this. (Also, I just love bless on paladins, bless falls off for clerics after a little while, as they get more powerful spells to concentrate on, but paladins can find this as a great use of their concentration even throughout higher level play)
Thanks for clarifying paladins actually do have good spells. (although imo not that many to make full use of being a prepared caster)
You left out the biggest, most crucial difference between smite and bless, and that is that rolling three or more dice at the same time is like REALLY fun like even without the mechanics, grab three D8s right now and roll em, I dare you to not enjoy the clickitty clackitty.
This reminds me of my very short lived first campaign.
I never got to have that Crit-Smite moment, but using Thunderous Smite to threaten criminals was always fun (if an utter waste of a spell slot)
Thank you good sir for further spreading the needed information for us all to be the best Paladins we can be. You truly are a hero.
Excellent breakdown, I love Paladins, and nobody else has made a video about tactics for them so I appreciate your smite and Paladin spell videos.
Thanks for drawing attention to this issue! Way too many paladin players (and not just new ones) just smite and smite and smite and before you know it, they're out of slots after the first encounter of the day and didn't cast any spells. They might as well be playing a fighter who is more effective than the average party member 10% of the time, and worse 90% of the time.
Paladins have a very unique spell list and plenty of good options! Dealing an extra 2d8 damage with one weapon attack is an awful use of a 1st level slot. Waiting for a crit to deal an extra 4d8 damage is a decent use of the same slot but, often enough, not better than an actual 1st level spell would be. You need to carefully consider whether smite damage will actually make an appreciable difference in how quickly you will weaken or defeat the enemy you just hit. The vast majority of the time, it won't. Overkilling, or making the encounter one attack shorter, is not worth a spell slot.
Problem is, Smite's literally the thing people pick paladin for. If you need to think about a good time to use Smite, you're more likely to just never use it at all and thus wasting your time playing the class instead of a fighter. That's why paladins just use Smite whenever they feel like it, even if it's not a 'good moment'. We're prepared castors too for fuck sake, so we're only preparing spells we know we're going to use anyways. If we prepare Smite, we're going to use the damn spell no matter what.
This is why I say Smite should have been a cantrip for Paladin, it's the gimmick spell for the class same way as Eldritch Blast is the gimmick spell for warlocks. It'd also kill the argument of when a good time to use it would be, because you're not wasting a spell slot anymore thus it' ALWAYS a good time to use it.
@@caiusdrakegaming8087 smite being a cantrip is a surprisingly good idea, specially since SCAB exists
@@slayeroffurries1115 Exactly. I mean seriously, Smite is just the read and butter for paladins so it just makes sense for it to be a cantrip. I really also feel like there isn't ever a good or bad time to use Smite. It's all subjective anyways. Saving them for crits? Valid choice. Save them for undead or fiends? Valid choice. Spam them early in a fight so the full castors and supports don't need to waste more spell slots themselves during or after the fight? Valid choice. The last point there is something else I want to bring up.
Paladins SUCK at being a healer. Paladin is built to be a frontline class like fighter or barbarian, all healing it does get is meant to help keep the frontline stable enough to keep going. Clerics get all the same healing spells as paladins, plus more on top of just having more spells to use in general. Paladins are a half caster class, just like rangers, thus we have the same spell slot limitation as them. Clerics are a full caster so they can go all the way to 9th level spells easy, and they just get all the stuff us paladins can get twice as fast. For us, a 5th level spell is late endgame, but for a cleric that same spell is just early midgame. Half casters don't worry about their spells as much, because it's so slow to get the actually good stuff that we just spam what we already got that works.
That's why there's the joke that paladins are just Smite machines, because as a half caster the different Smites are honestly the best stuff we got. If we run out of spell slots, we still have our weapons. And we still have access to the big stuff unlike most full castors, so even without our spell slots we can still fight. Maybe not as great as we could with spell slots, but at least we're not helpless without them as a full castor would be.
@@caiusdrakegaming8087
"Paladin suck at healing"
Lay on hands: Am I a joke to you?
No joke tho, they may not be the best but they're decent at healing, it just take an action to heal though which you can use your BA to cast smite spells.
life domain clerics basically get smite lite at level 8:
"Divine Strike
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon strikes with divine energy. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 radiant damage to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8."
why paladins don't get something similar with the ability to increase this effect by a lot with a spell slot is beyond me
@0:20 - you don’t “extend” a spell slot, you “expend” it.
I completely agree. So many good spells go unused for the sake of magic-smash
Senior Kobold!!! I love your brain!!!!! Thats it. Keep the videos coming
Video: Only smite on the first round.
Me: Got it! My gloom stalker 5, paladin 2, fighter 2, hexblade 1 will smite 6 times on the first round.