0:36 I get chills every time I watch that sequence of events. Both of them are really great fencers. Thanks so much for the video and the annotations :)
Thanks for the replays with commentary! I just started fencing two months ago and I can notice improvement every lesson. It's very interesting to watch these video's and look at all the different techniques. It seems like Piasecki learns to recognize Limardo's moves over the course of the game, but is to late to catch up. Limardo seems lightning fast!
Great job you did with the annotations on the video and the repetitions in slow motion, really helpful to understand what happens. And by the way, great fencers!
This is an excellent demonstration of two contrasting, but both highly successful, epee body types and fencing styles. The taller right hander relies on the length of his extension to score most of his touches, whereas the smaller but more athletic left hander relies on fast footwork, blade contact, and aggressive attacking. The taller fencer is not particularly good at retreating, which cost him the match.. time and again he was caught flat footed by fleche' attacks. Really good fencing!
If the guy on the right used a French and counterattacked more often, he would have won, I use pistol and flèche at my friend, who uses French and he gets me with ca usually
The ref was watching from the other side which makes piaseki the fencer on the right. And fleshe attacks are all about distance, the grip type doesn't usually make much of a difference.
Ziad Khayat As far as the video POV, Piaseki's on the left...I can't read the names clearly, but I can ID the Norway leg graphic, and it looks nothing like Venezuela's. I'll argue the grip type, tho...pommeling a French grip gives you longer reach, and therefore less time to target ( at the cost of a weaker grip on the weapon). If both fencers are using pistols, the distance to target is the same (90cm blade + 5.5cm deep guard). if someone's pommeling a French, tho, there's 3-4 inches reach difference...which is a lot of time in epee.
Granted, but I find that the different grips tend to show more in blade work. French Grips tend to focus on disengages and avoiding blade contact, while pistols involve more parries, flicks, etc... The main way I see the extra reach come into effect is when both fencers are going directly to the others wrist, or foot touches. This is just my opinion, but I believe the main advantage for French grips lies in counterattacks, but if you're going to fleshe, the extra reach isn't nearly as important as avoiding their counterattacks or parries.
I'm so excited because I'm going to start fencing this school year. The club that I am probably going to go to only uses epee so this was cool to watch and the highlights were good.
At that level they will be used to all permutations: left, right, pistol, pommel, absence of blade etc. Their 1-2-1 coaches are most likely drilling them with both left and right-handed weapons. :-)
That was really great to watch! He took advantage of the fact that his opponent tended to counter-attack, and used to create different blade work actions w/ a flèche. Yet he caught on & score those 4 consecutive touches. Flèches must be used sparingly, I learned that the hard way....
@EastbourneEscrime This was a lot of fun to watch. I'm going to start lessons in 2014. I hope that I get to start with the epee. I'm 34, not in great shape but I'm pretty agile.
Well it doesn't really matter. With the training you will get into shape in no time. my dad start doing sport again and he is past 50 years! He is in a great shape ;)
Usually it's the other way around - a tall pommeller who is a genius at stop hitting has a serious advantage over a smaller fencer fencing pistol grip. Check out Max Heinzer's fencing - he's short and pistol - he keeps his weapon high. His training regime is gruelling - including parcourse plyo - because he had to be so much faster and more dynamic physically.
Yeah, I'm no fencer, but as a martial artist, "reach" is important to one's strategy, and it seems a lot of times Piasecki gets countered and doesn't use his reach to simply turn the blade upwards, which would cut off that diving lunge, like at 5:38 but most notably at 7:20 Like I said, I'm no fencer, but it was frustrating watching Piasecki get overrun by the same tactic again and again and fail to adapt.
Perhaps earlier in the career - and hence lefties may have early success and it motivates them to go further. But at Worlds level, RHers fence so many LHers who have also reached that level that the difference vanishes. Also, as an intermediate, a coach is most likely to only coach RH lessons - at that level, they do both. What is clear from the video, I think, is that Limardo's fencing was insanely good - look at the timing and prep of his fleches, and their sheer athleticism - it's impressive.
@EastbourneEscrime - first of all, I love all your fencing video collection. And thanks for sharing your video clip analysis. As a beginner Epee fencer, I found it very helpful. Any tips for beginners?
Oh my GOD épée is awesome! :D : D I'll NEVER be allowed to fight with that weapon! :( Or Sabre! :( I'll just remain a snivelling knave, who can only EVER, fight Foil, FOREVER! :p
Because most people are right handed. So left handed people are used to training against right handed people however right handed are not familiar with left handed fighters and so they are at a disadvantage. This creates a situation at elite level where left handed people are over-represented. same with tennis and even boxing etc. In sport left handedness is actually a major advantage unless you play against another left handed person, where it is even.
I disagree, i find it very likely that left handed fencers have an advantage, simply put there are a hugely disproportionate number of left handed fencers who reach high rounds in the Olympics compared to what you would expect if all things were even.
In fact, I rarely see Piasecki extend his arm fully to get the most of his reach in this match up, which I think is why he lost. You're not going to be quicker than a shorter opponent most the time, you have to play your strengths! just my humble opinion!
Piasecki doesn't control his distance -- elbow is far too close to his body. He has reach here and he's still getting caught up trying to parry L-Gs fleche rather than disengage and fully extend with a counter. L-G is doing a decent job of taking the blade before he engages, but Piasecki rarely uses his full length/extension this whole bout. Fun to watch though, L-G is fast and precise. Glad to see someone under 6'0 killing it in Epee.
I couldn't agree more. Piasecki is not using his length to his advantage and is being hit over and over with attacks on preparation. A pleasure to watch the bout though... James Ransom Atlanta 1996. and hehe i'm five foot eight...
0:36 I get chills every time I watch that sequence of events. Both of them are really great fencers. Thanks so much for the video and the annotations :)
The timing of most of those single-point fleches from Gascon were utterly otherworldly. Really impressive.
Thanks for the replays with commentary! I just started fencing two months ago and I can notice improvement every lesson. It's very interesting to watch these video's and look at all the different techniques.
It seems like Piasecki learns to recognize Limardo's moves over the course of the game, but is to late to catch up. Limardo seems lightning fast!
Beautiful fleches I love that move and always use it, this guy, the lefty executes his perfectly
Thanks a lot for the video. I sometimes see different things than you do but these highlights are definitely better than those you see on TV!
Great job you did with the annotations on the video and the repetitions in slow motion, really helpful to understand what happens. And by the way, great fencers!
This is an excellent demonstration of two contrasting, but both highly successful, epee body types and fencing styles. The taller right hander relies on the length of his extension to score most of his touches, whereas the smaller but more athletic left hander relies on fast footwork, blade contact, and aggressive attacking. The taller fencer is not particularly good at retreating, which cost him the match.. time and again he was caught flat footed by fleche' attacks. Really good fencing!
If the guy on the right used a French and counterattacked more often, he would have won, I use pistol and flèche at my friend, who uses French and he gets me with ca usually
Fail 9999 Uhhh...the guy on the right DID win. What bout were YOU watching?
The ref was watching from the other side which makes piaseki the fencer on the right. And fleshe attacks are all about distance, the grip type doesn't usually make much of a difference.
Ziad Khayat As far as the video POV, Piaseki's on the left...I can't read the names clearly, but I can ID the Norway leg graphic, and it looks nothing like Venezuela's.
I'll argue the grip type, tho...pommeling a French grip gives you longer reach, and therefore less time to target ( at the cost of a weaker grip on the weapon).
If both fencers are using pistols, the distance to target is the same (90cm blade + 5.5cm deep guard). if someone's pommeling a French, tho, there's 3-4 inches reach difference...which is a lot of time in epee.
Granted, but I find that the different grips tend to show more in blade work. French Grips tend to focus on disengages and avoiding blade contact, while pistols involve more parries, flicks, etc... The main way I see the extra reach come into effect is when both fencers are going directly to the others wrist, or foot touches. This is just my opinion, but I believe the main advantage for French grips lies in counterattacks, but if you're going to fleshe, the extra reach isn't nearly as important as avoiding their counterattacks or parries.
Thank you very much for posting this. I kept trying to watch the one posted on the Olympics page, but it refused to load. -__-
I love this guys parry eights
Excellent annotations. Cheers.
Excelente video, gracias.
Thanks for the great video!
Nice job explicating the action in such a small space!
Very nice vid… appreciate the insights and observations.
I'm so excited because I'm going to start fencing this school year. The club that I am probably going to go to only uses epee so this was cool to watch and the highlights were good.
the annotations helped so much as a young fencer i will try and incorporate the riposte into my duels
Good job ! Many thanks for this
Fajna walka!
im about to start fencing and im nervous because its my first time and i need help and this helped me verymutch
How's your fencing now?
At that level they will be used to all permutations: left, right, pistol, pommel, absence of blade etc. Their 1-2-1 coaches are most likely drilling them with both left and right-handed weapons. :-)
Sure Gascon was a righty before he broke his arm skateboarding as a ween
That was really great to watch! He took advantage of the fact that his opponent tended to counter-attack, and used to create different blade work actions w/ a flèche. Yet he caught on & score those 4 consecutive touches. Flèches must be used sparingly, I learned that the hard way....
No! Always use them, I love them, they are hard to execute if the other guy isn't in right distance though
Good video! Thanks for the job :)
Love this, really helpful, thanks!
Very helpful, thanks. I intend to be up there, one day.
@EastbourneEscrime This was a lot of fun to watch. I'm going to start lessons in 2014. I hope that I get to start with the epee. I'm 34, not in great shape but I'm pretty agile.
Well it doesn't really matter. With the training you will get into shape in no time. my dad start doing sport again and he is past 50 years! He is in a great shape ;)
thanks for ur notes, very helpful
Usually it's the other way around - a tall pommeller who is a genius at stop hitting has a serious advantage over a smaller fencer fencing pistol grip. Check out Max Heinzer's fencing - he's short and pistol - he keeps his weapon high. His training regime is gruelling - including parcourse plyo - because he had to be so much faster and more dynamic physically.
Спасибо, очень интересно!
that's gr8! helps loads!
Yeah, I'm no fencer, but as a martial artist, "reach" is important to one's strategy, and it seems a lot of times Piasecki gets countered and doesn't use his reach to simply turn the blade upwards, which would cut off that diving lunge, like at 5:38 but most notably at 7:20
Like I said, I'm no fencer, but it was frustrating watching Piasecki get overrun by the same tactic again and again and fail to adapt.
Perhaps earlier in the career - and hence lefties may have early success and it motivates them to go further. But at Worlds level, RHers fence so many LHers who have also reached that level that the difference vanishes. Also, as an intermediate, a coach is most likely to only coach RH lessons - at that level, they do both. What is clear from the video, I think, is that Limardo's fencing was insanely good - look at the timing and prep of his fleches, and their sheer athleticism - it's impressive.
Does the camera operator have to jump up and down also?
10:15 that is sick skills.
Anthony Rosamilia no, that's a terrible long-distance fleche against a tall guy
He was referring to the prime.
Novice question, but could it be said that Limardo-Gascon had an advantage over Piasecki because he is left-handed and PIasecki is right?
@EastbourneEscrime - first of all, I love all your fencing video collection. And thanks for sharing your video clip analysis. As a beginner Epee fencer, I found it very helpful. Any tips for beginners?
Techique!
Any video with WF analysis??
Oh my GOD épée is awesome! :D : D I'll NEVER be allowed to fight with that weapon! :( Or Sabre! :( I'll just remain a snivelling knave, who can only EVER, fight Foil, FOREVER! :p
I feel so sorry for u :-(
Foil is great though.
xbronybattlefieldx well...if u say So... (Epee for the win)
Epee is definitely great, and I main both foil and epee, but foil's not so bad either. I'm just tellin the squirt to cheer up
maybe when you finish training you can move onto a full weapon? :)
Freaking left handers... why is everyone I fence against left handed?
Because most people are right handed. So left handed people are used to training against right handed people however right handed are not familiar with left handed fighters and so they are at a disadvantage. This creates a situation at elite level where left handed people are over-represented.
same with tennis and even boxing etc. In sport left handedness is actually a major advantage unless you play against another left handed person, where it is even.
TemplarX2 maybe i should fight pro for a few years being a lefty with a strong punch :)
I disagree, i find it very likely that left handed fencers have an advantage, simply put there are a hugely disproportionate number of left handed fencers who reach high rounds in the Olympics compared to what you would expect if all things were even.
классный бой
I am a fencer and why does it say 3nd
XD
Most importantly, could it be said that Limardo-Gascon had an advantage over Piasecki because of his short stature?
They're not bad, not bad...
Who am I kidding, they're practically demigods!
In fact, I rarely see Piasecki extend his arm fully to get the most of his reach in this match up, which I think is why he lost. You're not going to be quicker than a shorter opponent most the time, you have to play your strengths! just my humble opinion!
3nd? Great video though
This video was shot with an epileptic potato
lol
I disagree on a couple of analysis points here
Piasecki doesn't control his distance -- elbow is far too close to his body. He has reach here and he's still getting caught up trying to parry L-Gs fleche rather than disengage and fully extend with a counter. L-G is doing a decent job of taking the blade before he engages, but Piasecki rarely uses his full length/extension this whole bout. Fun to watch though, L-G is fast and precise. Glad to see someone under 6'0 killing it in Epee.
I couldn't agree more. Piasecki is not using his length to his advantage and is being hit over and over with attacks on preparation. A pleasure to watch the bout though...
James Ransom Atlanta 1996. and hehe i'm five foot eight...
they would be good fencers wouldn't they
He is a bit stupid bcs he keeps falling that fleche everytime(left handside) *until he realizes
When your blade moves like its made out of rubber, I'm not surprised that he won
3nd time period? Thirnd time period? Lol.
lewis weiss was here
they should use real swords. these flimsy sticks take all the fun out of it.
Lefty cant play defense
Nah he uses parry-followup multiple times, which is defending the opponent and then as the opponent is recovering, fleches
MODERN SPORT FENCING SUCKS I WANT LONGSWORD FENCING