DISCLAIMER: This video is meant to educate people on how latency can give you or others an unfair advantage, and how to think about it so you can possibly counter it. If you have high latency with most people, I recommend you don't abuse quickstep or bloodring so the game can be more fun for everyone.
@@aether3456 At that point you're probably stuck in one long af battle of whiffing attacks until Miyazaki blesses one of your swings and a Sun Princess + Blessed Caestus setup. It would be *pain.*
The video was really good, I subscribed =). I also watched ChaseTheBro video where he met a boss hacker which he credited you for the cool boss fight =)
also amir, I have a request and or suggestion, could you check out how high latency affects the parry window as well, I wonder if on high latency you could just roll parry everything. Im curious as to how it would affect the parry window
@@asdergold1 i agree. As an Argentinian, i cant easly punish mistakes of players from Eu, Russia, china, japan, Australia, etc. So i forced to adjust my playstyle to all types of latency. Being Sa is a curse
My God, it's even worse than we thought. The quality of this video is unmatched. Genuinely inspiring. Thank you for this content. Please keep up the good work
Im honestly so happy to see amir growing in souls community, im following him since his first boss apear in chase's channel and im glad that his channel is growing in the way it is!! God job broooo! Also im from Brazil, im sooo sorry hauaushshshhshs
Dude, i've always complained about how pvp is just unbearble coz of this issue, and now that i've decided to i vest and truly learn to read the lag and git gud, i assumed at least one person in this fandom had done this exact research, turns out if it wasnt for you and only you, we would all still be in the dark about all this. So thanks for doing all this. Subbed.
This is extremely helpful and it is clear that a lot of effort went into its production. Thank you so much Amir. It's crazy how underrated this channel is.
I knew about this in a conceptual way and I understood how roll catches only work if on both screens but thank you so much for making this easily digestible and spreading the info
1:25 standing here I realize you net is shit trying to make me angry Invader: why won't you die Blue high ping s son they carry me in response to you out playing me you can't hurt me red.
4:16 This entire time I kept getting annoyed that I got sucked into a backstab while rolling, because I thought the defender did an iFrame check. This video is super informative
Yeah I still get salty knowing this anyway, it sucks do survive a 4 man blender for a couple second straight only to be magically sucked out of your roll by one of the phantoms.
Amir amazing and very well explained video as always. PD: great to see that someone can accurately depict and explain why and how utterly frustrating this is.
So you're telling me if someone wanted to, they could create an intricate lag system for their connection to automatically read the P2P connection, and adjust to always have 500ms delay for immortality. We always knew laggards got away with a lot more shit than usual, but this solidifies it even further. Why tf didn't the devs do something to punish the laggards instead of rewarding them for having Ugandan coffee shop wifi with immortality?
I’m seeing if I can actually make such a system and test it with some people. This ofc would be purely for testing purposes and ofc I wouldn’t publicly release it. It’s basically equivalent to giving yourself infinite s while in the roll animation.
Downloading/streaming during PvP duels or invasions has always been something people did since the start and most of the time gets you kicked out of tournaments.
Excellent video; it all makes sense now! I would love to see how hard hyper armour is to interrupt or how early you have to time whiff punishes on high latency. Sometimes it feels like you physically can't.
The thing about hyperarmor is that they are further in the animation than they appear, and even if they aren’t on their own screen by the time they receive your hit, they are in hyperarmor
Just imagine if there were optional and functional ping filter or region lock! Or even if From continued to support their games for more than a few patches. I wonder if it would still be our favorite game
It's always frustrating because you can sort of 'feel it' when your hit lands, but not really. Like when I'm fighting someone with lag, I sort of know that the hit they took was not exactly in real time, and it makes it impossible to chain a combo. It's also very frustrating when they're able to escape true combos
And next, we will be showing the best roll build: 99 stam, rof+3, best weed, grass shield, galvanise, deep protection, and last but not least power within bringing it up to 68 stamina regen additionally to base stamina regen. i will be informing paulo of my findings and will cause chaos in the community
It's a good video, very informative. One thing you miss is that if you're lagging, the invincibility works on both sides. I've been in tonnes of fights were I can't hit the person and they can't hit me. The problem if you have to try to hit the other person eventually. You want the fight to end so you have to take a risk. My problem is I know how dodge and avoid attacks, but when I try to attack that's when phantom range and weird hitboxes get me.
Amir if you were looking to take this even further, I’d be really curious to see how asymmetric changes in connectivity affect the analysis. For instance If my download is solid but my upload is delayed, what does that do?
Several ppl have commented asking the same question, in this test it was actually “both sided” as if I reversed the rolls both with be equally invulnerable. I plan to test and possibly make another video showing how difference in upload and download latencies effect this. From the defending perspective, upload would effect how delayed their animation appears to the other, and their download would control how fast they receive a hit.
The worse/best case of lag i had was in DS2, i had a cestus build, and on my screen, the guy i was fighting in the duel area in Undead Purgatory seemed to stay still while moving, I beat the everliving heck out of him with cestus, since i was lagging any hits he could have done did not register, bit even the animation of the hit, he was stuck lag on the bridge, I ended the guy, but, he was still on the bridge in the death animation, thank the backstab final shot, after the screen said Victory, I just walked off, it gave me the feeling of the JoJo Reference, "Za WARUDO"
as a laggy chilean, now i understand the advantage i have and i feel pretty bad about the people who fight against me. On the other hand, i can roll-catch other laggers to help some invaders.
Don't feel bad about it, a lot of lag can just be inconvenient distance. Unless you have a low quality connection and have more than enough funds or options for example to improve your connection it's not really your fault. There's countless ppl I found even in the US which is very close to me with awfully delayed connections.
theres a lot of bitching about this stuff from americans and europeans but you really shouldn't feel bad about it, its immature as all hell to blame a system/network issue on somebody's life situation
@@lepistanuda Yeah, but, saddly every streamer does it lmao, for one side I understand their frustration, but, in the other side, as a SA player (from Chile too) I have a lot of distance with like EU, and thats not my fault, one thing is to have latency because distance. And other very different to always skip animations or shit like that
@@salvajsdf I don't really think that this is a distance problem. I live in Europe and had fights against American and Japanese people with very little latency, so I think the problem lies within the internet provider or playing on wifi.
@@blackflame1592 distance definitely plays into it but internet infrastructure also effects it. Like I live in a rural town in England and even playing on Ethernet I sometimes get v bad connections with like Americans and distant Europeans 🤷♀️ we don’t live in a perfect world but that doesn’t stop Americans bitching about everyone that doesn’t have perfect ping (and honestly I find the bitching about Brazilians etc. a little bit sus sometimes, it can come across as barely concealed racism lmao)
Keep in mind latency goes both ways. If you can't rollcatch the enemy, they can't rollcatch you. Basically latency just skews the game way in favor of the defender in terms of s, regardless who that player is.
Wonderful video. I've read various explanations about how s work and hits are determined, but seeing it graphically explains it so much more clearly. I'd be curious to see a video explaining how weapon swing animation and damage confirmation works. Sometimes I fight very laggy folks who do damage to me before their swing animation starts on my screen. It seems like the swing animation display and damage confirmation are separate, or somehow affected differently by latency.
I play from South America for 2.2k hours at this point, so high latency is the norm. For this reason, I almost despise this netcoding quirk and how when somebody swaps to a quickstep weapon I become utterly helpless unless they screw up bad. I hope Elden Ring does not have any significant advantageous uses for this, though the network test didn't quite inspire a lot of confidence in that regard. I'm still hyped though Edit: This also makes rollcatching quite a bit harder
that is actually disgusting to see "player" roll through EVERY SINGLE R1 and it just kept getting worse as you tested with fire surge and gaels crossbow. automatically, i had flashbacks of shitters ive had to deal with that lat. edit: got caught up a bit and almost forgot, great vid bro
goddamn this hurts to see, like invading or getting invaded by some people from asia... even when i hit them it takes 5 seconds to register... still very informative though!
@@jooot_6850 its because either one of you lives in a shithole with shoestring budget infrastructures. The netcoding of dark souls 3 is fine, its just because you connect with everyone all over the planet since everything is p2p
dont know much about this type of net shit, but hasnt the argument its both sided always been easy to debunk since the connection is peer to peer meaning itll only be equal if their internet is equal
This is fuckin' big brain and explains in such a way my smol brain can understand. Thank you so much for all your hard work, research, and data collection.
I was right all along and people tried to shit on me for my losses yet on perfect latency would contend with top players. Dug and prince frequently had this kind of connection with me, both of which I dominated in the tournament despite said purposeful latency. I always said people targeted and attacked me, and everyone in the community was too stupid to see it. Now people can understand exactly what I had to deal with commonly on ps4 as a result of bad latency with a lot of top tier players. A true testament considering despite latency that inhibited me and enabled my opponent I was able to destroy top players, on an og ps4 when everyone was on pros.
Excellent testing, Souls netcode always needed more research and i've only seen Cragsie do in-depth stuff like that before. A question though, what does this have to do with the "two-way" argument? All it seems to show is how latency basically invalidates a fight by perverting the fundamentals, but if the rolling person were to go on the offensive (as it would happen on a regular fight) and the attacker started mashing roll, shouldn't it be the same, just with the roles reverted? Shouldn't those attacks also go through the 2-way filter with 500 ms? There does seem to be one-way latency extremely often in Souls games so i am not claiming that does not exist, i just don't see how it would relate to this finding. Editing because i saw other people raise similar concerns and get them answered. So it is definitely two-way, which makes the ending of the video a bit disingenuous. i still wonder what the hell is the difference in PS4, i feel like the addition of the PSN regional server factor causes more vague unevenness in the netcode.
Yeah I realized that the end bit sorta is slightly disingenuous as I did my testing with equal latency between the two games(500 = 250 + 250 sent packet delay), which would mean both games should be invulnerable to each other with subsequent rolls. I’ll do some more testing with unequal latency eg. One having good upload but bad download latency(Really common with VPN players in my experience). And see if it results in one side’s rolls being far more overpowered than the other’s.
This goes for all the souls games tbh. Great video! Amazing work! High Latency is the ultimate crutch, some people would probably never win without it lmao
The double filters for i-frames check is so dumb. the attacker-side filter should be removed. with solid netcode fromsoft can litteraly make an entire pvp-only game and it would be so good. imagine how high the skill ceiling if the netcode was as good as modern fighting games
Fr it has no reason to be there, it kills the gameplay in favor of what ? Visual accuracy that's still not there ? Let us work with the actual mechanics instead of deleting them at random.
People always said i was just salty. I said there is a reason people use chinese vpn's in ds3. When you have a whole second to roll away from a hit i already landed something is wrong. Hell i have won at times where my connection was godawful, where i could roll away from hits i shouldve taken damage on. I am grateful someone out there finally points the fact that latency can give a (one sided) advantage to someone.
Awesome research and video. Do you have any idea what the ~ping would have to be to be able spam roll fire surge & shivs without bloodring? That's basically me vs Japan, both ways.
amazing work! this is a really high quality video. i love videos like this that goes in to detail. PS any way i could get the script for i-frames that you'r eusing? i would really like to mess around with this :)
ok so two things that i dont understand. at 6:20 , where does that supposed third shift of 250ms come from? and at the end you said, send it to people who say it affects both sides, it will make them look silly. but at least this impact on gameplay that lag has should be both sided, right?
Great video Amir, love your work and your methods, But Amir ! I say, having 500ms latency should affect both players the same way, right ? both could use this to their advantages. That is, if the checks are made by each sides and not by the game server... correct ? Merci A+
Me using demons fist's wa vs chinese mhs user and they can keep quickstepping into me and I think it does damage comparable to the speed of fire surge, fire whip or the great chaos fire orb lava pool. This game's matchmaking/netcode is the biggest reason why I need to stop playing every once in a while.
I did, you’ll see how I said roll catching someone on certain breakpoints of high latetencies would end up catching them in the next or one of their next rolls
I have a question. If there is latency, the laggy player noitce it? I mean, if I see a player skiping I am the laggy one or is it the other? I ask this cause im figthing with a frien and I see that my hits take like 0.4 seconds to conect and I see him sometimes skipping, but he says that for him everithing is fine. It is my problem or his problem? PD: sorry for my bad english
Laggy players only notice it through things that they do to other players and how the other player reacts. For example, they may attack with their weapon and their hit only lands .4 seconds later, or they parry super early and the other gets parried 1 second later. What I think is happening with your friend is his upload is very weak and packet lossy, which means a big chunk of his packets will take up to seconds of time to be received by you. Even tho everything looks fine on their screen, it is not fine. Altho packet loss can be a one time thing.
DISCLAIMER:
This video is meant to educate people on how latency can give you or others an unfair advantage, and how to think about it so you can possibly counter it. If you have high latency with most people, I recommend you don't abuse quickstep or bloodring so the game can be more fun for everyone.
do you have an advantage if your opponent has the same latency to you though
@@aether3456 At that point you're probably stuck in one long af battle of whiffing attacks until Miyazaki blesses one of your swings and a Sun Princess + Blessed Caestus setup. It would be *pain.*
The video was really good, I subscribed =). I also watched ChaseTheBro video where he met a boss hacker which he credited you for the cool boss fight =)
good video man.
It doesn't give a particular player an advantage, it gives particular setups (like bloodring) and behaviors (roll spam) an advantage.
this is the most important souls vid ive ever seen, honestly great work Amir
also amir, I have a request and or suggestion, could you check out how high latency affects the parry window as well, I wonder if on high latency you could just roll parry everything. Im curious as to how it would affect the parry window
Ah yes, aka the nanocomedies effect
@@Jeenine Sure, it would be much easier than this video.
Bump
Brilliantly done. I’ve tried to articulate this but haven’t come close to the clarity here. Lag + blood ring is really the ultimate setup.
I have a feeling this vid was about paulo
It def contributed to me wanting to look into this
It's definitely about Paolo. He is so proud about his skills
You mean his skills to be such an scumbag that abuses of all he can abuse to win unfairly?
@@93streak exactly
OK professor, I finished the seminar.
Aaah the most reclusive evil species...the Brazilian lag.
Eh, most brazilians actually are cursed instead of being blessed by it.
I would know.
@@asdergold1 i agree. As an Argentinian, i cant easly punish mistakes of players from Eu, Russia, china, japan, Australia, etc. So i forced to adjust my playstyle to all types of latency. Being Sa is a curse
My God, it's even worse than we thought.
The quality of this video is unmatched. Genuinely inspiring. Thank you for this content. Please keep up the good work
This should be linked every time some ganker makes an exposed video. Top tier vid man, well editing and presented!
Man here I was thinking you were the cool boss guy. It turns out that you're also the informative guy.
Im honestly so happy to see amir growing in souls community, im following him since his first boss apear in chase's channel and im glad that his channel is growing in the way it is!! God job broooo! Also im from Brazil, im sooo sorry hauaushshshhshs
No need to apologize! Most Brazilians don’t even have this latency sweet spot with most people.
Dude, i've always complained about how pvp is just unbearble coz of this issue, and now that i've decided to i vest and truly learn to read the lag and git gud, i assumed at least one person in this fandom had done this exact research, turns out if it wasnt for you and only you, we would all still be in the dark about all this. So thanks for doing all this. Subbed.
This is disgusting. Great work.
This is extremely helpful and it is clear that a lot of effort went into its production. Thank you so much Amir. It's crazy how underrated this channel is.
3:06 this looks like a spine with each frame of the player being a vertebrae lol
I knew about this in a conceptual way and I understood how roll catches only work if on both screens but thank you so much for making this easily digestible and spreading the info
1:25 standing here I realize you net is shit trying to make me angry
Invader: why won't you die
Blue high ping s son they carry me in response to you out playing me you can't hurt me red.
One of the best informational videos I've ever seen regarding DS3, considering the high quality visuals, testing, and explanation. Great work man.
4:16 This entire time I kept getting annoyed that I got sucked into a backstab while rolling, because I thought the defender did an iFrame check. This video is super informative
Yeah I still get salty knowing this anyway, it sucks do survive a 4 man blender for a couple second straight only to be magically sucked out of your roll by one of the phantoms.
Amir amazing and very well explained video as always.
PD: great to see that someone can accurately depict and explain why and how utterly frustrating this is.
It was fun to review this this might be one of the handiest video's about darl souls to date
3:20 this is art
So you're telling me if someone wanted to, they could create an intricate lag system for their connection to automatically read the P2P connection, and adjust to always have 500ms delay for immortality.
We always knew laggards got away with a lot more shit than usual, but this solidifies it even further. Why tf didn't the devs do something to punish the laggards instead of rewarding them for having Ugandan coffee shop wifi with immortality?
I’m seeing if I can actually make such a system and test it with some people. This ofc would be purely for testing purposes and ofc I wouldn’t publicly release it. It’s basically equivalent to giving yourself infinite s while in the roll animation.
Downloading/streaming during PvP duels or invasions has always been something people did since the start and most of the time gets you kicked out of tournaments.
@@WildBandit300 Definitely used to happen a lot and still does
and it is 10x worse in the reality because of packet loss D:
:(
not only because of that but because gankers know and they reaction or predict roll the attack plus all the practice and experience they have rolling.
god I hate gankers
Impressive work, Amir!
Keep those awesome research videos coming.
I bet Chase will love this information
This is very important to know, and I wish I didn’t know it. Seriously good video, man!
this video is sponsored by paulo portasio 😇
dude, this is the most informaitve video about latency on the whole platform. fantastic work.
VERY GOOD. THANK YOU.
1:40 time is indeed convoluted
Just R1 from the future. Ez. Jokes aside, this is the best breakdown of latency and s.
Excellent video; it all makes sense now! I would love to see how hard hyper armour is to interrupt or how early you have to time whiff punishes on high latency. Sometimes it feels like you physically can't.
The thing about hyperarmor is that they are further in the animation than they appear, and even if they aren’t on their own screen by the time they receive your hit, they are in hyperarmor
@@Amir0 latent hollowslayer op
Just imagine if there were optional and functional ping filter or region lock! Or even if From continued to support their games for more than a few patches. I wonder if it would still be our favorite game
My experience basically summed up right in this video
It's always frustrating because you can sort of 'feel it' when your hit lands, but not really. Like when I'm fighting someone with lag, I sort of know that the hit they took was not exactly in real time, and it makes it impossible to chain a combo. It's also very frustrating when they're able to escape true combos
So the attacks in this game are both attacker-based and victim-based in terms of checks? The heck were they thinking when implementing this?
Start your next video with “Welcome to my tedtalk”
This is a brilliant video really well presented
This is an important video to be able to demonstrate what we all know is happening, you're a real MVP for making this!
this video is absolutely brilliant man, fantastic job
And next, we will be showing the best roll build: 99 stam, rof+3, best weed, grass shield, galvanise, deep protection, and last but not least power within bringing it up to 68 stamina regen additionally to base stamina regen. i will be informing paulo of my findings and will cause chaos in the community
ps this isn't the best because power within reduces your health and stamina stops increasing well after 40 stam so don't copy this
It's a good video, very informative. One thing you miss is that if you're lagging, the invincibility works on both sides. I've been in tonnes of fights were I can't hit the person and they can't hit me. The problem if you have to try to hit the other person eventually. You want the fight to end so you have to take a risk.
My problem is I know how dodge and avoid attacks, but when I try to attack that's when phantom range and weird hitboxes get me.
Amir if you were looking to take this even further, I’d be really curious to see how asymmetric changes in connectivity affect the analysis. For instance If my download is solid but my upload is delayed, what does that do?
Several ppl have commented asking the same question, in this test it was actually “both sided” as if I reversed the rolls both with be equally invulnerable. I plan to test and possibly make another video showing how difference in upload and download latencies effect this.
From the defending perspective, upload would effect how delayed their animation appears to the other, and their download would control how fast they receive a hit.
The worse/best case of lag i had was in DS2, i had a cestus build, and on my screen, the guy i was fighting in the duel area in Undead Purgatory seemed to stay still while moving, I beat the everliving heck out of him with cestus, since i was lagging any hits he could have done did not register, bit even the animation of the hit, he was stuck lag on the bridge, I ended the guy, but, he was still on the bridge in the death animation, thank the backstab final shot, after the screen said Victory, I just walked off, it gave me the feeling of the JoJo Reference, "Za WARUDO"
as a laggy chilean, now i understand the advantage i have and i feel pretty bad about the people who fight against me.
On the other hand, i can roll-catch other laggers to help some invaders.
Don't feel bad about it, a lot of lag can just be inconvenient distance. Unless you have a low quality connection and have more than enough funds or options for example to improve your connection it's not really your fault. There's countless ppl I found even in the US which is very close to me with awfully delayed connections.
theres a lot of bitching about this stuff from americans and europeans but you really shouldn't feel bad about it, its immature as all hell to blame a system/network issue on somebody's life situation
@@lepistanuda Yeah, but, saddly every streamer does it lmao, for one side I understand their frustration, but, in the other side, as a SA player (from Chile too) I have a lot of distance with like EU, and thats not my fault, one thing is to have latency because distance. And other very different to always skip animations or shit like that
@@salvajsdf I don't really think that this is a distance problem. I live in Europe and had fights against American and Japanese people with very little latency, so I think the problem lies within the internet provider or playing on wifi.
@@blackflame1592 distance definitely plays into it but internet infrastructure also effects it. Like I live in a rural town in England and even playing on Ethernet I sometimes get v bad connections with like Americans and distant Europeans 🤷♀️ we don’t live in a perfect world but that doesn’t stop Americans bitching about everyone that doesn’t have perfect ping (and honestly I find the bitching about Brazilians etc. a little bit sus sometimes, it can come across as barely concealed racism lmao)
Keep in mind latency goes both ways. If you can't rollcatch the enemy, they can't rollcatch you.
Basically latency just skews the game way in favor of the defender in terms of s, regardless who that player is.
Well, well. This certainly explains a lot
Great work, Amir! Fantastic video!
This I some big brain stuff omg. Very well made sir.
Thank you for this video Amir. This is the answer to all skating gamers out there
Subbed, great work dude!
Ty :)
Wonderful video. I've read various explanations about how s work and hits are determined, but seeing it graphically explains it so much more clearly.
I'd be curious to see a video explaining how weapon swing animation and damage confirmation works. Sometimes I fight very laggy folks who do damage to me before their swing animation starts on my screen. It seems like the swing animation display and damage confirmation are separate, or somehow affected differently by latency.
And then they type at you in your inbox while doing this. 💀
great vid .. really also another proof why ping filter is absolutely needed in souls games. gud job
Masterpiece of a video
I play from South America for 2.2k hours at this point, so high latency is the norm. For this reason, I almost despise this netcoding quirk and how when somebody swaps to a quickstep weapon I become utterly helpless unless they screw up bad. I hope Elden Ring does not have any significant advantageous uses for this, though the network test didn't quite inspire a lot of confidence in that regard.
I'm still hyped though
Edit: This also makes rollcatching quite a bit harder
Pain
carthus bloodring + 500 ms ping + turn and burn + poisetanker = true combo, prove me wrong.
That is a good showcase why there should be a pingcap for pvp in darksouls somewhere in the double digit range.
that is actually disgusting to see "player" roll through EVERY SINGLE R1 and it just kept getting worse as you tested with fire surge and gaels crossbow. automatically, i had flashbacks of shitters ive had to deal with that lat.
edit: got caught up a bit and almost forgot, great vid bro
Imagine if the game actively decreases and tweaks your s by the gradient of latency you have in order to simulate 0 latency
Thx for this
goddamn this hurts to see, like invading or getting invaded by some people from asia... even when i hit them it takes 5 seconds to register...
still very informative though!
5 second registration is literally worse than moon man net. How is Dark Souls netcode this bad...
Only 5 seconds?
Hahahahahahaha
@@jooot_6850 its because either one of you lives in a shithole with shoestring budget infrastructures. The netcoding of dark souls 3 is fine, its just because you connect with everyone all over the planet since everything is p2p
@@sturmmagnunstein1008 tfw they made absolutely zero effort to add location based matchmaking outside of Japan
this is bound to get tons of views
Great video! Thanks for this.
oh my god the fire surge lmao
Great information and so clearly explained!
dont know much about this type of net shit, but hasnt the argument its both sided always been easy to debunk since the connection is peer to peer meaning itll only be equal if their internet is equal
Yeah, that is the video's flaw.
This is fuckin' big brain and explains in such a way my smol brain can understand. Thank you so much for all your hard work, research, and data collection.
I was right all along and people tried to shit on me for my losses yet on perfect latency would contend with top players. Dug and prince frequently had this kind of connection with me, both of which I dominated in the tournament despite said purposeful latency. I always said people targeted and attacked me, and everyone in the community was too stupid to see it. Now people can understand exactly what I had to deal with commonly on ps4 as a result of bad latency with a lot of top tier players. A true testament considering despite latency that inhibited me and enabled my opponent I was able to destroy top players, on an og ps4 when everyone was on pros.
Excellent testing, Souls netcode always needed more research and i've only seen Cragsie do in-depth stuff like that before. A question though, what does this have to do with the "two-way" argument? All it seems to show is how latency basically invalidates a fight by perverting the fundamentals, but if the rolling person were to go on the offensive (as it would happen on a regular fight) and the attacker started mashing roll, shouldn't it be the same, just with the roles reverted? Shouldn't those attacks also go through the 2-way filter with 500 ms? There does seem to be one-way latency extremely often in Souls games so i am not claiming that does not exist, i just don't see how it would relate to this finding.
Editing because i saw other people raise similar concerns and get them answered. So it is definitely two-way, which makes the ending of the video a bit disingenuous. i still wonder what the hell is the difference in PS4, i feel like the addition of the PSN regional server factor causes more vague unevenness in the netcode.
Yeah I realized that the end bit sorta is slightly disingenuous as I did my testing with equal latency between the two games(500 = 250 + 250 sent packet delay), which would mean both games should be invulnerable to each other with subsequent rolls. I’ll do some more testing with unequal latency eg. One having good upload but bad download latency(Really common with VPN players in my experience). And see if it results in one side’s rolls being far more overpowered than the other’s.
Dude...amazing. ty.
This goes for all the souls games tbh.
Great video! Amazing work!
High Latency is the ultimate crutch, some people would probably never win without it lmao
Ah yes my favorite stat, *stanima*
he still said that on the recent stream 😂
ultra instinct dark souls 3 confirmed
Thank U for this vid Amir.
The double filters for i-frames check is so dumb. the attacker-side filter should be removed.
with solid netcode fromsoft can litteraly make an entire pvp-only game and it would be so good. imagine how high the skill ceiling if the netcode was as good as modern fighting games
Fr it has no reason to be there, it kills the gameplay in favor of what ? Visual accuracy that's still not there ? Let us work with the actual mechanics instead of deleting them at random.
People always said i was just salty. I said there is a reason people use chinese vpn's in ds3.
When you have a whole second to roll away from a hit i already landed something is wrong.
Hell i have won at times where my connection was godawful, where i could roll away from hits i shouldve taken damage on.
I am grateful someone out there finally points the fact that latency can give a (one sided) advantage to someone.
Huh... This makes sense now. I hate lag...
Now if only you could filter out players that have really bad ping, and only connect to those below a certain threshold.
This makes me feel better about how bad I am
Awesome research and video. Do you have any idea what the ~ping would have to be to be able spam roll fire surge & shivs without bloodring? That's basically me vs Japan, both ways.
This is why I as an Australian will point down on any quickstep spammer
3:46 vsauce music
amazing work! this is a really high quality video. i love videos like this that goes in to detail. PS any way i could get the script for i-frames that you'r eusing? i would really like to mess around with this :)
I could give you it but I don’t recommend using it online on a non-penalized account, as I have no idea if it bans.
@@Amir0 i would like to have it either way :) my discord is maredream #0095
@@Amir0 i have an account for checking if things like this bans :)
ok so two things that i dont understand. at 6:20 , where does that supposed third shift of 250ms come from? and at the end you said, send it to people who say it affects both sides, it will make them look silly. but at least this impact on gameplay that lag has should be both sided, right?
This is the best video ever!
This video > Jesus
the definition of a lag warrior
stanima
If elden ring PvP is as broken as DS3 I'm shooting myself.
He probably gouged his eyes out just before
@@thegk-verse4216 Yep, it is completely broken
Can you make a Elden Ring video?
its the exact same except if u equip bloodhound step you dont need 500ms
You da real mvp.
Great video Amir, love your work and your methods,
But Amir ! I say, having 500ms latency should affect both players the same way, right ? both could use this to their advantages.
That is, if the checks are made by each sides and not by the game server... correct ?
Merci
A+
Great Vid
monkaW CIA
Always 2 ping 🤠
ok so does this mean lag goes on the glitch tier list
It would be on EULA-Approved as long as it’s not a VPN maybe?
@@Amir0 VPN is straight to Zucc-tier
Okay, I need to get this out there. I think you have a really hot voice!
Very good video. Is there a way where you could show out how phantom range works?
Sure
Was an interesting video.where are you from ?
Me using demons fist's wa vs chinese mhs user and they can keep quickstepping into me and I think it does damage comparable to the speed of fire surge, fire whip or the great chaos fire orb lava pool.
This game's matchmaking/netcode is the biggest reason why I need to stop playing every once in a while.
Can you next explain roll catching someone waaay out of range?
I did, you’ll see how I said roll catching someone on certain breakpoints of high latetencies would end up catching them in the next or one of their next rolls
I have a question.
If there is latency, the laggy player noitce it?
I mean, if I see a player skiping I am the laggy one or is it the other?
I ask this cause im figthing with a frien and I see that my hits take like 0.4 seconds to conect and I see him sometimes skipping, but he says that for him everithing is fine. It is my problem or his problem?
PD: sorry for my bad english
Laggy players only notice it through things that they do to other players and how the other player reacts. For example, they may attack with their weapon and their hit only lands .4 seconds later, or they parry super early and the other gets parried 1 second later.
What I think is happening with your friend is his upload is very weak and packet lossy, which means a big chunk of his packets will take up to seconds of time to be received by you. Even tho everything looks fine on their screen, it is not fine. Altho packet loss can be a one time thing.
@@Amir0 Oooooh, thanks thanks, I will ask him to do a online conectiin test to see how bad his upload is.
Thanks for answering me