A Massive T.rex Bigger Than Scotty! E.D. Cope: The New King
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- How big was T.rex? New data shows that the T.rex E.D. Cope, the "Copium rex," was the biggest theropod ever found, increasing theropod size limits to new heights. T.rex was a powerful predatory megatheropod. While Sue and Scotty are currently cited as the biggest T.rex specimens, new measurements of E.D. Cope, from the Black Hills Institute in South Dakota, form a challenge for the title of the megatheropod king. Measurements of this new T.rex femur indicate that Cope may be between 10.6 and 12.4 tonnes, making it the biggest theropod by up to 2 tonnes. T.rex size is a hot debate in paleontology, and Cope just turned it into a bonfire. Copium rex!
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Campione, N.E., Evans, D.C., Brown, C.M. and Carrano, M.T. (2014), Body mass estimation in non-avian bipeds using a theoretical conversion to quadruped stylopodial proportions. Methods Ecol Evol, 5: 913-923. doi.org/10.111...
Carr, T.D., Napoli, J.G., Brusatte, S.L. et al. Insufficient Evidence for Multiple Species of Tyrannosaurus in the Latest Cretaceous of North America: A Comment on “The Tyrant Lizard King, Queen and Emperor: Multiple Lines of Morphological and Stratigraphic Evidence Support Subtle Evolution and Probable Speciation Within the North American Genus Tyrannosaurus”. Evol Biol 49, 327-341 (2022). doi.org/10.100...
Hurlburt, Grant. (1999). Hurlburt, G. R. 1999. Comparison of body mass estimation techniques, using recent reptiles and the pelycosaur Edaphosaurus boanerges. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 19 (2):338-350.. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. 19. 338-350.
Paul, G.S., Persons, W.S. & Van Raalte, J. The Tyrant Lizard King, Queen and Emperor: Multiple Lines of Morphological and Stratigraphic Evidence Support Subtle Evolution and Probable Speciation Within the North American Genus Tyrannosaurus. Evol Biol 49, 156-179 (2022). doi.org/10.100...
Persons, W.S., IV, Currie, P.J. and Erickson, G.M. (2020), An Older and Exceptionally Large Adult Specimen of Tyrannosaurus rex. Anat Rec, 303: 656-672. doi.org/10.100...
Please see this community post for an update on Copium rex's mass (he's still the biggest T.rex discovered, but not quite as big as this video calculated. I received actual measurements from Peter Larson that changed his size).
th-cam.com/channels/mkkmzfWWf4HzrO8SGO3gjw.htmlcommunity?lb=UgkxvnMRH0F1rD4anNzhBpvY9Vh29Dg3magm
@@ahmadfaizan5173 The new estimate is based on the average of different parts of Cope's skeleton compared to other Tyrannosaurs and scaled, and since Cope's limb proportions seem unusual compared to those of other Tyrannosaurs, scaling this way would also have a large variation. The final result taken is the average result of this method. It's a reasonable estimate, but it also doesn't mean that the original estimate in the video was wrong. You can think of these two results as the Cope weight range
I have a suggestion, maybe you can update your weight estimate. Because your calculation seems to ignore one factor, your final calculation is the average of three averages.However, statistical weight coefficient was not taken into account, because for the estimation of body weight, the weight of the three factors in the calculation should not be equal, because they correlate differently with body weight. And the correlation between femur circumference and weight is higher than the other two. So it should have a larger weight coefficient in the calculation. So your final calculation should be the weighted average of the three different averages, and the circumference of the femur should weigh more than the other two factors in the calculation to get a more reliable calculation. If you do not consider the weight coefficient, the final result is likely to be low. Based on this, I would say that Cope over 12 tons is still reasonable, especially considering that the incredibly large tibia may have made its hip height higher than originally expected
I have re-compared the femur photos of Cope with those of Sue. The femur of Cope shows slight but obvious signs of damage at the femoral head and the lesser tubercles of femur. Perhaps we should re-confirm with Larson whether 127cm is the pre-repair or post-repair length .This information can be misleading if not clearly confirmed. Although the wear on the picture is not serious, it may only reduce the overall length by a few centimeters, and the repair should be very close to the length of SUE's femur. Of course, even at this length, the femur length is still short compared to the 630mm femur circumference, but the overall hind limb length is still very long. Of course, there is another possibility that Paul's 130cm is the length after repair predicted by him. In fact, he may not have made a wrong measurement, but just recorded the data after his own repair. so I think we should be more careful before we confirm the details and measurement standards
Imagine if EDCope femur was shorter and had a longer tibia. Like the variations between humans , Bolt vs avg Joe's legs. He could be considerably faster and larger. Meaning it might be a naturally swifter variant able eat a larger range of prey as it grew.
E.D. cope is now 12.33m long & weights 10.6 tonnes according to Randomdinos 😊
Giganotasaurus: this is unfair how do you keep getting bigger?!?
T. Rex: Cope
th-cam.com/users/shorts2G5-p70PnKg?si=nn4IgMBpQkXrS3Vp
Giganotosaurus fans when they find out Trex isnt 4-6 tons:
@@boi9842that is outdated, Rex was a very dangerous PREDATOR. There are plenty of fossils that prove this.
@@boi9842no, every up to date research says it hunted large dinosaurs like edmontasaur, triceratops, ankylosaurs, and other large creatures
@@boi9842 jack horner moment
Copium Rex's thigh is shorter than Scotty meaning Copium Rex is only 9.5 tons . 12.4 tons isn't official.
Scotty is the biggest T rex that weights only 10.4 tons
With the current official estimates Giganotosaurus carolinii is still the biggest carnivorous dinosaur that weights 10.6 tonnes
@@boi9842Holy shit your from 2001 WAT
Can't wait to hear a 15 ton Rex when I'm at my deathbed.
Almost certainly existed at this point
Welp it’s a year later know buddy and that a thing
Say this the average man is 5”10 170lbs and there’s genetics freaks who are 7”4 450lbs a T rex could definitely be 15 tons that would be like if a man was 6”6 280lbs
Can’t wait to see if Bertha really can take Cope’s throne or at least join him as the king and queen of the T. rexes
Neither can I!
Throne*
@@dirt_dert_durt damn you’re right I’m about to fix that
@@tobiasedwards2643 No worries bro!
@@dirt_dert_durt 👍🏾
To anyone doubting T.rex's title of the King, send this to them.
Like the name of this videos specimen, COPE.@@boi9842
@@boi9842shut up pathetic child🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@boi9842 Average Giganatosaurus fanboy.
@@boi9842false, T. rex was an active hunter, the scavenger theory has been long debunked, cope. Pathetic Neanderthal
@@boi9842 No, it wasn't. That was a rediculous theory to begin with and has been disproven. Like most predators, it both hunted and scavenged.
My toxic trait is believing I could tame one by putting my hand out like in How To Train Your Dragon and exuding my overwhelming purity of heart.
That's not toxic. That's truth.
considering its bite force of 'bonkers' Newtons.. if you did stick your hand out with eyes closed, like Hiccup did, you would have lost that arm and not feel a thing until you opened your eyes and saw that it was gone.
The cope is going to be high with this one.
@@boi9842 found the guy who can't cope.
@IAMTHEWARRIORWARCLUB Yeah you did 😂 I've seen this guy just trolling about "uh despite decades of science and currently knowledge, YEAH clearly Trex was a scavenger"
Clearly Cope was to much for some people...
@@kailanerman5090 he gotta troll because he can't cope.
@@boi9842Cry cry cry, lie lie lie...
@@Godeater13273 the Tyrant Cope King is still slaying even 66 million years later! Based
Giga, Carchar , spino fans watching this😭😭😭
Look at them crying in the comments😭
Me who just loves Dinosaurs, period: 😒
Giga fans thinking they had the lead
Rex comes back even bigger every time 🤣
A predator weighing 2 African elephants is bonkers
On a side note though, if a giganotosaurus specimen is found even bigger than the current ones. They should name it “Gustav the giga”
Wow! This is really cool! Great video, really super fascinating, and incredible, look forward to hearing more on these Tyrannosaurus rex fossils in the future.
The facts: T Rex was a beast
The true power of Mother Nature.!
Jack horner will still think its scavenger
🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
T rex keeping it's crown as the king it seems
Goes to show that with every new discovery, T. rex becomes more and more of an edgelord.
And the poor Spinosaurus becomes more and more of the Cretaceous version of the platypus.
@@Kfruistik That makes it so much worse!
@@Kfruistik no, no. I've had been chased by geese before as well. I completely understand.
Giga fans finds out that there is a bigger T.rex than Scotty 💀💀
they aren't even big mad, they giga mad!
@@drakonos79 more lol like giga Chad
I can't cope with this guys size.
Get it. 😂
E.d.Cope wins easily against Giganotosaurs 💀
Don't be angry Giga fans
Cualquier t rex le gana a un giga XD
A few years later and we'll discover a rex that's as big as a sauropod or smth like that
Another reason that the rex was absolutely increadable
Just remembered celeste apparently 13.5m long but its weight hasn't been confirmed so i could be a contender
can you imagine a more than 13 Meter long creature with 12 inch teeth sprinting after you?!
Podrías fácilmente escapar de ella.
@@hugomas5207no😂
@@rodrigopinto6676 Bueno.
Un animal de de 12T creó que muy rápido no va ser.
Haunque si acojona ría bastante ver a uno cargando asía ti mientras rompe todo lo que hay a su pasó.
(Y bueno también es de mencionar el porque en primer lugar un Rex te perseguiría si simplemente no somos buenas presas para el)
and the fact that it will not lose you because of the uber senses of smell, sight, and sound. Not the mention, you wouldn't hear it because it doesn't roar, but would feel it, because of the padded feet it ran on. Almost like a phantasm.
Tyrannosaurus Rex 👑🦖King of the dinosaurs!!!!!!! Power ultimate Bien 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪
I hope we can find a complete 14 meters long and 4 meters tall T Rex fossil
Giga: NO I’M THE BIGGEST! THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE! 🤓
T-Rex: Cope. Seethe. Mald.
Isn't Palaeontology just bloody amazing?
5:23 En fait le giganotosaurus n’aurait probablement pas besoin d’atteindre 14.3 m pour avoir une masse de 12.4 tonnes si on se base sur les modèles les plus massif un giganotosaurus de cette taille aurait atteint 13.5 tonnes en réalité
Just here to remind everyone that we shouldn't take Dan Folkes' estimate for Giga seriously since he never provided real justification for his outlandish size claims. Just watch their skeletons together and you'll see why it's almost imposible for Giga to be even close to the size of T Rex.
^ this right here
🤡🤡💀
Sizes from paleontologists
Giganotosaurus- 10.5 tonnes
T Rex - 10.4 tonnes
Copium & Bertha are just fragments so should be taken with a grain of salt.
Giganotosaurus is the biggest theropod
@@spinosaurusaegyptiacus49 Not even Dan Folkes said Giga was 10.5, Dentary is an unreliable specimen, infact it has less material than Copium so where do you get your absurd sources from?
@@oliyes406Yeah, exactly.
In terms of Giga a partial dentary is less than 1 percent of a skeleton lol.
Science keeps making the t rex bigger and stronger everytime.
So
@@Protest467 he cant cope with the truth. ;)
Exciting news all around, hope they find some more well-preserved Charcarodontosaurid megatheropods soon though
Hail of the king
I got to go to the Black Hills Institute last year and I saw ed cope and he was absolutely massive
Cope? Why not Drinker?! Or at least Eddy…
Tyrannosaurus itself is an anomaly even within Tyrannosauridae. As far as we know no other tyrannosaurid reached such monstrous size. Tarbosaurus is sort of close, but the gap between them is still massive. For comparison the second largest North American tyrannosaurid, Daspletosaurus, weighed around 4 tons at most, was 9 metres long and 3 metres tall.
Top 5 largest Tyrannosaurids
1. Tyrannosaurus- 12.4 tonnes
2. Zhuchengtyrannus- 5.5 tonnes
3. Tarbosaurus- 5.4 tonnes
4. Daspletosaurus- 4.1 tonnes
5. Gorgosaurus- 4 tonnes
Pretty sure Tarbosaurus and Zhuchengtyrannus are interchangable, but yeah.
Now there's this earlier , Campanian/Maastrichtian monster from further south ( 5-7m years earlier) .
I don't believe I've ever found anything on how fast smaller T-rex specimens could go, I'd like to see a video on such a topic.
My thoughts :
We should call him Edward not Cope
But Cope just fits so well
@@AgroAcro I’m just thinking since a lot of tyrannosaurus fossils are given casual nicknames
They’re probably gonna be verifying this one for at least another 2-3 yrs.
The femur circumference means nothing so cope could just be a few hundred kg more than scotty like 10.6 tons
It means alot.
I mean, Scotty is just a few kg more than Sue too remember? Sue 9.3 tons and Scotty 9.7 tons
Yet, the overall differences between them goes beyond the weight alone.
@@GanteSpruce scotty breached the 10 ton mark, its considered to be 10.4 tons or Even more bc if fat, tissue, skin and muscles
Wow, and I thought Cope was the max... Bertha??
Giga fans like dino crisis 2 giga was actually T-rex after all
basically named this t-rex "cope" for the spino and giga fanboys
Dang what a monstrosity
It's actually amazing how perfectly named T Rex was since it's discovery, whenever there's a new challenger, it steps up it's game to keep the crown.
@@boi9842shut up Jack Horner
@@boi9842wdym
@@boi9842Is that you, Jack Horner?
@@boi9842 for the last time T .REX WAS A HUNTER!!!!!
It wasn't called T. rex when first discovered. It was called Dynamosaurus imperiosis. When they found another Dynamosaurus they thought it was a different animal and named it Tyrannosaurus rex. By right, it should retain the name Dynamosaurus, but it's current name proved too charismatic.
Tyrannosaurus rex is definitely one of the most fascinating Apex predators in the history of planet earth
Exactly
@@rodrigopinto6676
essa palhaçada de querer usar uns fragmentos do giga, pra forçadamente tentar competir com o REAL KING!!! extrapolando em cima de cacarecos, contra t rex's com diversos indivíduos quase que completos, T REX é um dos dinos que mais se tem conhecimento, não tem nem comparação com outros mega teropodes, E O T REX TAMBÉM TEM FRAGMENTOS!!! QUE INDICAM SER MUITO MAIORES!!! POhrrr****... ESTIMATIVAS ATÉ 15T!!!... ae pega fragmentos do giga super extrapolados contra t rex praticamente completos, ESSA RÉGUA TÁ ERRADA!!! e mesmo assim T REX É MAIOR!!! e o individuo do giga que se tem mais conhecimento, acho que não chega a 8T, a SUE é maior, acho que altura e comprimento também, más em peso e força É MUITO MAIOR!!! ae vem o scotty QUE É MUITO MUITO MAIOR!!! e recentemente veio o COPE, QUE É INSANAMENTE SUPERIOR!!! E AINDA TEM UMA TAL DE BERTHA CHEGANDO... que possivelmente AINDA MAIS BRUTA!!!! ae seguindo os "exemplos" do giga... tem os T REX'S FRAGMENTADOS TAMBÉM!!!!! POSSIVELMENTE CHEGANDO A 15T!!!!!
👊😲GIGA NÃO CHEGA AOS PÉS!!!!
Every year _T.rex_ assumes greater and greater dominance as the most terrifying predator in the history of terrestrial evolution. It's bordering mythic level status at this point. Difficult to envision what kind of ecological environment drove evolutionary pressures to create such an animal.
One with Torosaurus and Triceratops in it. Imagine the battles they must've put up.
@@Mine0Taurdon't forget my boy anky
6 m dakotaraptors and hadrosaurids just over 12 metres
Even the Juveniles completely plugged allthe other predatory niches, I bet they hunted in packs
Huge prey helps
There's a reason Hell Creek earned its name.
I truly believe that dinosaurs, like crocodilians, continued to grow throughout their lives. A T.rex, so long as it lived long enough, could have probably reached some truly astonishing sizes.
They do grow forever but at some point the growth becomes insignificant as it slows down
This is why I love playing Beasts of Bermuda. It has that as a important part of the gameplay. The older you get, the bigger. But your growth becomes less and less noticeable yet noticeable enough to younger members of your species. Sickness becomes a greater risk the older you get, which holds true even to this day. And the bigger you are, the more you need to consume to fill your stomach.
Not to mention bloodlines, and through a Skilltree like manner being able to focus on survival; eating rotten corpses/less affected by sickness,etc, health, stress reduction.
Combat: which is mostly self explanatory.
Or Speed. Which between combat can also include aquatic/swimming abilities, stealth, & acrobatics capabilities like jumping, turning, etc.
It can really feel like you are growing a dinosaur, especially if you started in a Egg. See yourself develop as a embryo, Hatch as a tiny or small defenseless or sometimes scentless individual. Inheriting things from your parents, be it for good or bad. As inbreeding is a thing and affects you like it would in reality. Pigmentation disorders from Albinism, Melanism, piebald, erythrism, to even xanthochromism and many more.
It makes me wonder if there were, and if so what a real tyrannosaurus rex with erythrism would look like. Strawberry colored? Light pink? Or deep reds. If it affected them negatively in socializing or hunting.
@@boi9842nope, T. rex was an active hunter, cope, pathetic Neanderthal
Enter godzilla
There have been reports of crocodiles reaching 30 foot reported in the Congo, probably an unknown undocumented species of giant, and also reports of saltwater and Nile crocs growing over the 23 to 20 foot estimates, both historical and even modern reports.
Incredible, Rex once again not only takes but currently cements it’s presence as the largest theropod
You guys should ' COPE '
No evidence of T Rex getting 12.4 tons. It would break it's legs .
T Rex is officially 9 tons.
& Giganotosaurus is 10.5 tons.
Conclusion: Giganotosaurus is the biggest theropod
Largest Land Carnivore of all time.
@@YaBoiDREX Correct
It feels like an arms race for whose the biggest and baddest carnivore dino of all. 😂
@@goldman77700 Ikr
I can't believe that a heavier rex was in a paper that everyone forgot about. Also, a possibly heavier (and maybe longer than "Scotty?") T. rex specimen might be around the corner!
True true! I'm definitely one of those people that missed Cope's measurements because I thought the paper was questionable haha. We'll see if Bertha can match up!
@@TheVividen T. rex is demonstrating why it shouldn't be overlooked anymore in the "biggest theropod ever" discussion 😄
@@IAmTheLazermaNshouldn't be overlooked??? Since a while that T Rex is known to be much heavier than the next runner ups for the title 🤷♂️
@@TheVividenThe femur being shorter doesn’t cast some doubt on the 12.5 t estimate ?
@@francissemyon7971you can see on the paper that the longest femur mapusaurus was also the one with the lesser width and therefore the less massive of the 3 mapusaurus
At this point, it’s being reinforced that the T-Rex was king for a good reason.
So crazy how they discovered T.rex so early on and it ended up keepinh it's title as the most powerful and largest land carnivore ever
@@jacksborns3414perhaps because of its success, more of them could exist because of how great their hunting skill was and there for so many could populate.
Bone crushing bite
@@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb Crushing? Your thinking is too small, it wouldn’t crush bones, it would splinter and pulverize them.
@@julianfalken8861 Well they were also one of the last dinos alive, so older specimens are probably lost/rarer
I am super-masterpiece-34, I think, in addition to raising the upper limit on the size of Tyrannosaurus rex, the presence of these giant specimens shows that specimens the size of sue and scotty are not as rare as people used to think
Do you think that could be attributed to fossil preservation bias, since larger bones are easier to find and are less brittle?
From the geological sense, I think there is no basis for this argument, is it possible that the strata will selectively crush small fossils? In fact, the most complete dinosaur specimens we've ever found are the small ones@@heeheeyup35
@@heeheeyup35I always thought larger animals were preserved poorly?
@heeheeyup35 that's the coolest part of this to me. We won't be done finding fossils for awhile so we still have plenty left to find out.
@@chazparr6132 and @heeheeyup35
Preservation bias does vary from place to place. Like the places over in chine where all the good feather fossils are from, there is a huge bias towards tiny creatures.
In hell creek there is more of a bias towards larger creatures.
However, laws of statistics says that in a normal distribution population we are most likely to find the average of we pick at random.
Meaning the odds of us finding the biggest to ever exist, is essentially zero. But with how many we have found, we likely have seen some in the higher ranges.
Remember when WWD thought T.Rexes were only 5 tons? Times really have changed.
Looking back, 5 tonnes was just plain silly, even at the time. I mean, I'm pretty sure the estimates for an average Rex were at 6 tonnes at the time, with Sue being 6,4. It's also weird that they upscaled a bunch of animals such as Liopleurodon and Ornithocheirus (which I believe goes by Tropeognathus now), and the lizard King himself got the lightweight treatment, though they gave it a greater length at 13 meters.
@@devilman4018 Liopleurodon makes sense because they initially only found its head and we didnt know much about Pliosaurs at the time so it was massively overscaled.
Since then a more complete specimen (from a different pliosaur species i don't recall the name of 😅) was found and they changed how they did their measurements and its size shrunk drastically to what we believe to be factual about them now.
As for Ornithocheirus is actually a real species and is closely related to the Tropeognathus but Tropeognathus wasn't described at the time so I believe they treated it as maybe some form of subspecies based off fragmentary remains? That one always confused me a bit tbh it is massive even by Trope standards
5 tons even a midget t.rex wasn’t that small
@@GODEYE270115 Right? Maybe a Tarbosaurus. But a fully grown T.Rex? To this day I still don't know where those estimates came from. WWD is a solid series, probably my favorite piece of dinosaur media out there but the final Cretaceous Episode had some flaws that were inaccurate even for the time. The idea that dinosaurs were dying out prior to the meteorite was one of them.
@tossupeater While I remember there being estimates at the time that suggested Lio getting that big, I also remember the producers saying they made it that large for dramatic effect. As for T.rex, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the animal is actually 13 meters instead of 12.
T Rex every time a "bigger" apex predator is found: Hold my femur.
Looks like Scotty has possibly been dethroned.
Just like how he dethroned Sue all those years ago.
At this point the Tyrannosaurs are like the Saiyan race in dragon ball. There only rivals are each other.
Cope and Scotty are Goku and Vegeta of dinos lol
Giga fans: I CAN STILL BEAT YOU!
Trex enjoyers: cope
It's so freaking insane to me this planet produced bipedal animals that big, truth can be stranger than fiction.
the late Mesozoic was so amazingly over the top
@@danielkorladis7869 BIGGER, BETTER, STRONGER
Now imagine the bite force of this thing. This is why T- Rex is my favorite prehistoric animal. They pushed their body to absulute limits as far as laws of physics allowed it. These animals were literally desinged for endless combat. But when you think T- Rex barely could survive in it`s habitat as surviving is the hardest for the apex predator of that environment, you don`t want to be part of that environment this animal once lived. It should be a such tough place if Rex was evolved like that just to survive
Back in 2021 a study estimated Sue´s bitefoce as 9.6 tons
And Keep in mind that Sue size is 12.40 meters long and weights 9.3 tons
@@GanteSpruce Thanks for information
@tossupeaterDo you know who did that estament? It seems somewhat reasonable considering Dan Folkes estamated Scotty to be 10.55 tons, but I want to look into it.
@@AgroAcro I doubt is from a legit source.
Dan last work put Scotty weight in 10.45 and the length in 12.35 meters
Meanwhile Sue weight is 9.8 and the length is 12.37 according to Dan
An outdated study from 2011:
"This study found that Sue could be around 9502 kg that is 10.4 tons. These results were achieved by giving Sue a 13% broader model"
But another study from 2014:
"This older study concluded that Sue was around 7377 kg (8.1 tons) while Scotty was 8004 kg (8.8 tons). Scotty was estimated to be around 8 percent larger than Sue"
Then another study from 2018:
"That got results similar with Sue being 9130 kg that is 10 tons and there was also a higher result that placed Sue at 9713 kg so 10.7 tons"
"There are issues with these higher end estimates. Because the models being used have areas with questionable tissue added and this can effect how accurate the results are"
"The tail is bulked up and the flesh added is excessive and this will effect the results of the study. So far our current understanding of Tyrannosaurus does not support this look for the animal"
"There is nothing to really suggest it carried this amount of flesh on its tail so this means it is probably a good idea to not use this model for Tyrannosaurus rex unless you want to get really high mass estimates"
Before Dan´s recent work though the very last study put Scotty weight at an estimated 8870 kg (9.7 tons) while Sue was estimated at 8462 kg (9.3 tons).
Scotty was around 400 kg to possibly 500 kg heavier than Sue.
Then Dan shared his work about density and GDI analysis and now Scotty is 10.4 tons and Sue 9.8 tons
Also, Henrique Paes aka RandomDinos has updated his work on Sue.
The estimated length is 12.40 meters, the height is 3.90 meters and the mass is 10 tons
Pretty similar to Dan´s own work: 12.37 meters long, 3.7 meters tall and 9.8 tons
@@GanteSpruce Dan Folkes website currently says Scotty is 10.55 tons, that's where I got my number from. Like you said the thing that seems a bit off about the 10.4 tons Scotty and 10.2 ton Sue is how close they are. Scotty definitely seems more than .2 tons heavier
Bertha is such a great nickname for a giant T. rex. Truly a large caliber siege weapon XD.
This video is not about Bertha though...
@@GanteSpruce they mentioned it.
I know, but i still like that name more. And it got me excited for the upcoming paper.@@GanteSpruce
E. D. Cope may be dead but he still lives on as the new biggest carnivorous specimen to ever walk the Earth. That's one lawd comin
MIKAIL🗣🗣🗣🗣💯💯💯🗣
The chonky beast! I'm surprised at how quickly things have changed with T.rex's mass estimates since our Megatheropod videos came out. And Bertha might shake things up even further!
This kiddo here too
@@TheVividen i see what you did there... Bertha shaking things up. 😁
My fking god, Just imagine a +12 tonnes trex in real life, in front of you… everything about this thing is pure madness
If Cope's estimated weight is accurate, that would put him on par with Big John: the biggest triceratops specimen!
Also, did the paper mention how old Cope might've been? A tyrannosaurus bigger than Scotty must've broken the record of how old a tyrannosaurus could be as well!
Long live the new king! 👑🦖
@tossupeaterScotty is only 23-27 years old? That means if he lived longer he might have gotten even bigger. That's crazy.
Big John was 12,000 kg? Do you have the source for this estimate; I've never heard of this before.
@@AgroAcro Not necessarily. Considering birds today eventually stop growing, it's not wrong to presume most dinosaurs likely stopped growing eventually.
@@minutemansam1214 True
@@minutemansam1214 Nah
JP in 1993: The T Rex was over 13 mts long and 12 tons in weight
Paleo comunitie 1993: That´s exagerated.
Paleo Comunnitie 2023:... well, it actually was over 13 mts lond and weighed 12 tons, but it had lips
JP: I AM CANON
Your the guy of 90s . You seen how Paleo community was at 90s. Giganotosaurus was the biggest theropod in 90s . Spinosaurus in 2000s & Tyrannosaurus in modern days
The JP T. rex never was stated, either in promotional material or the animatronic weight, to weigh 12 t. JP T. rex is athletic, 2023 T. rex is a tank.
@@francissemyon7971JP Trex also can’t see people if they stand still lol.
@@francissemyon7971 Actually it was, but you have to really, really dig in. The script of the movie reads for a 45 foot T rex, the book is 50 btw.
@@antoniocenteno1483 The only mention of body length ever mentioned in the books was 40 feet, and the weight 8 tons in the first, 10 tons in the second. The JP T. rex is 90's style, slim.
Anyone who undoubtedly beleives the 10.4 tonne Giganotosaurus paratype estimate should undoubtedly beleive this.
Better yet: People truly believe Spino´s single snout bone fragment reach 14 meters long and weights 7 tons. The paleo community seems to accepts this as a fact.
Then they should too accept this fragmentary remains and the estimates too right?
You've got a point! There's a lot more material to reliably scale Copium from.
T-rex is heavier than Giganotosaurus again, but Giganotosaurus is taller and longer!
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1GVpHchzogtjkTqQrP7PFM2BAWMGHYHABD-Xnk_6KPj0/htmlview
@@GanteSprucepaleo community actually is forced to accept fragmentary remains size estimates because of fanboys.
Look how much fans will bs angry if paleontologists use more complete 3 tons Spinosaurus & 7 tons Giga holotype.
LOL... Bertha is a great name for the biggest of anything. Hope it pans out.
So do I!
Copium rex is fun, but the biggest rex being named “Bertha” is just 👌
I can't wait for the showdown at the end of the year!
@@TheVividen I would love to know the age of Cope and Bertha at time of death. It maybe somewhat of proof if T-Rex kept growing until the day it died like some animals do today. It got me thinking about it when Sue was 29 years old and Scotty a little bigger was 30 years old at time of death. Seems from what I been hearing the older they are the bigger they are.
@@TheVividen
👍EXATAMENTE BRO... essa palhaçada de querer usar uns fragmentos do giga, pra forçadamente tentar competir com o REAL KING!!! extrapolando em cima de cacarecos, contra t rex's com diversos indivíduos quase que completos, T REX é um dos dinos que mais se tem conhecimento, não tem nem comparação com outros mega teropodes, E O T REX TAMBÉM TEM FRAGMENTOS!!! QUE INDICAM SER MUITO MAIORES!!! POhrrr****... ESTIMATIVAS ATÉ 15T!!!... ae pega fragmentos do giga super extrapolados contra t rex praticamente completos, ESSA RÉGUA TÁ ERRADA!!! e mesmo assim T REX É MAIOR!!! e o individuo do giga que se tem mais conhecimento, acho que não chega a 8T, a SUE é maior, acho que altura e comprimento também, más em peso e força É MUITO MAIOR!!! ae vem o scotty QUE É MUITO MUITO MAIOR!!! e recentemente veio o COPE, QUE É INSANAMENTE SUPERIOR!!! E AINDA TEM UMA TAL DE BERTHA CHEGANDO... que possivelmente AINDA MAIS BRUTA!!!! ae seguindo os "exemplos" do giga... tem os T REX'S FRAGMENTADOS TAMBÉM!!!!! POSSIVELMENTE CHEGANDO A 15T!!!!!
👊😲GIGA NÃO CHEGA AOS PÉS!!!!
@@TheVividenwhat’s the song in the background not the intro
I knew they would eventually find a bigger T.Rex because they keep finding bigger ones every so often. Other large theropods are interesting but the Rex is more highly evolved. Forwarding facing eyes incredible hearing and smell plus it has the most powerful biteforce so far known. I can't wait to find out about Bertha.
The t-rex continues to get buffs while the spinosaurus gets nerfed with each patch
Cuánta razón tienes.
2030 called. All T-rex skeletons found thus far ar juveniles lolololol
Hell nah kaiju-sized Rex😭😭😭
@@oliyes406 I’m gonna eat you
The King is about to turn into an Emperor
Copium Rex indeed.
It's Cope's world and we're just living in it
@@TheVividen Does this mean that triceratops could also grow bigger? The highest trike estimates I’ve seen are around 11 tons.
@@TheVividen Off the topic, remember your video on Aust collosus 2 years ago?
You said it's double the size of blue. Are there any updates regarding that Or it's just another speculation like P-collosus
@@majungabunga I would be very surprised if Triceratops didn't get bigger than that. Intraspecific size variation in reptiles is pretty insane.
@@prasanth2601 Sadly no peer-reviewed updates. Dean Lomax said that we'd get a redescription of the bones soon, but that was back in April and I haven't heard a peep since then. As soon as new info is out, though, you bet I'll be covering it
T-rexes are like the Salt Water and Nile crocodiles, when you think you have found the biggest specimen, a Gustave or a Cope appeares. And this just T-rex alone, we don't know if other giant theropods like the Gigas, Carchars or Allos could had reached humongous sizes.
So... a Jurassic Park type of T-rex could had been possible.
T. rex gets more badass with each new discovery. The attempts in the 2000s to have it being outshined by Spino and Giga look now hilarious. The King was always there all along.
Exactly
And also Carcharodontosaurus. That lad was also estimated to grow past 15 meters & 15 tons. And it's now lighter than a T Rex
@@monsterzero521 True, but Carcharodontosaurus wasn't used to crush T. rex and be shown as the new big bad theropod in town (unless you count Dinosaur King lol).
It won’t stop, I hate it, I don’t like how pop culture always think that to make an animal interesting they have to be a t. rex killer, Instead of just, Being itself! It makes me angry.
Agreed. But I still wish for Spino to be big, because I love it :D
So I went and saw Scotty in person and that dude was an absolute behemoth but now there are more rexes possibly two tons or more larger 🤯
Exactly
Haber que alguien me explique.
Cuánto pesa el puto Rex.
10, 12, 15T????
@@hugomas5207 posiblemente entre 9/12.4 toneladas
@@rodrigopinto6676 A vale. Me avía enterado que el espécimen de éste vídeo era de 15T.
Gracias.
@@hugomas5207 es el peso máximo teórico
5.33 ah yes, my favorite pterosaur, the Hell Creek rhamphorhynchoid
I clicked faster then my brain could think
Ultra Instinct kicks in
Every new paper that comes out just buffs T.rex even more
Exactly
It truly was a chonki boi
Just wait for the Kaiju T-Rex paper in like 2169.
@@YourMid740They will say that we 'will have living clonned mammoths in 10 years' on Discovery channel that year : D
Imagine to physically need to kill bigger and badder things just to be able to not starve to death. T rex is really the baddest
Give it a few more decades and we’ll eventually find a T-Rex bigger than the Blue Whale
Even bigger than godzilla
@@dwaynejohnson1302 even bigger than the earth!!
@@davetheuniversalllama6787 even bigger than the solar system!
Sorry to be a killjoy but theropods are NEVER getting past 20 tons let alone 190
@@Bak192220 tons is way too much for a theropods. Biggest theropods only reached 10-11 tons
Imagine the bite force on that thing!
It’s a monstrously force
Even a giant rex would actually be pretty fast for its size, a 13 tonne model got 21 km/h
How did you estimate that ?🤔
@@jislh9453 i didn't. Ben from Jagged Fang designs did.
Oh
Yeah, they wouldn't be able to run whatsoever but their strides were so big even their walking speed is the speed of a human sprinting.
"T. rex couldn't run"
Yeah, but it could speedwalk. It could speedwalk faster than most people can run
"...pictured here with GANDALF." That is my new favorite nickname for Bob Bakker. Great Job! :)
It's called Cope Rex because Giga and Spino fans must be coping and seething right now 😎
at least Giga and Spino are actually predators not scavenger.
Copium Rex's thigh is shorter than Scotty meaning Copium Rex is only 9.5 tons . 12.4 tons isn't official.
Scotty is the biggest T rex that weights only 10.4 tons
With the current official estimates Giganotosaurus carolinii is still the biggest carnivorous dinosaur that weights 10.6 tonnes
@@boi9842 lmao do people actually believe that???!!! What is this??? 2003???
@@boi9842Aaaand there's the copium lol. There is actual evidence of Rex attacking live prey (though it would no doubt take a free meal like most predators would), so it's clearly not an exclusive scavenger.
And Spino is primarily a fisher.
And there is no actual evidence of Giga hunting, but it likely focused on smaller prey. Not adult sauropods
@@David-ni5hjall serious scientists agreed with that until T rex fans sent death threats, so they had to accommodate science to pop culture pressure because T rex fans are obnoxious.
I will trust this infomation once Ben. G Thomas talk about it.
Scotty doesn’t know. Don't tell Scotty.
Trex is strongest theropord has ever lived
True
And this is why the Jurassic World movies upset people so much. Especially in the last one, bc if anything, based on the new data, the sizes of the two animals (Giga and Rexy) should have been reversed
I feel like with every year or every few months, that "T.rex could possibly reach 15 tonnes" thing seems, more possible?
I've got to agree with you there. I mean, with the error range of allometry + accounting for volumetrics being more accurate the absolute top max weight for Cope is just shy of 15 tonnes. I think the 12-tonne range is more accurate, but it goes to show we're getting closer and closer to the theoretical max size!
Maybe for the top larger T Rex specimens, it shouldn't be too far fetched. Unless their bone and muscle density is much higher than expected...
There probably were, but they were just so rare we will probably never find one unfortunately.
@@TheVividen I have a feeling that eventually you're probably going to have to make a video called "the tyrant lizard god" when we eventually find a specimen even bigger than Bertha or Cope.
15 tons probably existed in your dreams.
When biggest T rex Scotty is 10.4 tons & average T rexes are 6-8 tons.
Copium is just fragmentary & it's femur is shorter than Scotty meaning Copium's more reliable size is not more than 9.5 tons
W Video, common Tyrannosaurus rex W (but the comment section hurts my eyes)
fr😭😭😭
Same
If T.rex got that big and lived in groups, I'm still going to consider that Albertasaurus "family" as support for that possibility, then full grown Alamosaurus would've been the only thing in the ecosystem that could potentially consider itself safe.
Yeah, I doubt even a group of T.rex would go after an adult Alamosaurus. Anything else would have to really watch their back.
Absolutely a Unit! Can’t believe how far ahead T. rex is now in terms of sheer mass and imagine Bertha one ups this dude😂. Truly the Tyrant of lizard king.
I wonder if Bertha will end up being bigger, after how monstrous Copium seems to be. But we'll see once the paper comes out!
@@TheVividenit comes out later this year right? Would be most interesting indeed!
Imagine putting up this dude in the Jurassic Park franchise as he is: Nothing could stop it, and the Puny Spinosaurus would get MAULED. Truly the Tyrant Lizard KING.
"Imagine a predator the size of a house stalking you at night with vision as sharp as an eagle's, a sense of smell as keen as a bloodhound's, and padded feet making its footsteps as silent as death."
Now that I've gotten older, sometimes I only remember the part where T. rex is a majestic animal and forget the reason why it was the beautiful nightmare I adored as a child.
So, he was well over 43 ft long and about 20,000 lbs give or take a ton. Holy crap that would be terrifying.
Exactly
this beast must have been something in its age the most powerful predator to ever exist, the true king of beasts
Exactly
Nanuqsaurus pfp, nice.
most powerful predator ever? bruh this pussy aint shit it would get bitten in half by MegaloDONG. and probably get slapped by the DONG in the process
I’ve never clicked on something so fast!
Finally people will stop saying Giganotosaurus is the largest theropod.
12.4 tonnes!!!
Giganotosaurus footprint scaling 🤠
@@ferociousrazordino3581footprints arent reliable for size estimates, bc they can look way larger than they actually were
Giga was never the largest, it's 7-8 tons. I don't get how people have took Dan Folkes' estimate seriously when he has not given real justification for his outlandish size claims for Giga. Just watch their skeletons together and you'll see why it's almost imposible for Giga to be even close to the size of T Rex.
@@David-ni5hj gigas smallest speciment we know of currently is 8.8 tons and dan folkes pretty much explained in his blog post How he got the biggest giga up to 10.4 tons
@@Excusatores Dan Folkes' estimate got precisely criticized because he didn't provide enough arguments for his Giga's sizes. 8.8 Tons is already pretty big for a Giga, let alone 10.4 Tons. Just look at their skeletons, it would be incredibly hard for skinny Giga to be as heavy as bulky T Rex.
t rex, back up to reaching 14 metres. would have looked like a massive grey walking shark, eclipsing the sun wherever it went, every other tyrannosaur and predator respecting it, the same way sharks let the largest ones feed first.
13.1 metres **
13.13 *@@Protest467 larger every year. estimates now go up even to 14 and 15 metres.
A truly massive biped. Getting to be that size means its prey was large as well: hadrosaurs, ceratopsians, and defiantly sauropods.
welll considering the only sauropod it lived with was the absolutely titanic alamosaurus im not sure about that last part
Likely not sauropods because there weren't any in Hell Creek where Copium was dicovered.
@@gladiolus5377 we don't know the extent of their ranges. Large Sauropods don't tend to fossilize well. That said, T.Rex wouldn't have hunted the absolutely colossal adults, even if their ranges did overlap.
large sauropods wouldve been out of the T-Rex's menu for sure. theyre not built for such a task unlike say the Carcharodontosaurids like Giganotosaurus and Mapusaurus, young sauropods wouldve been fair game but after a certain size range an adult Alamosaurus wouldve been invulnerable to even T-Rexes like Cope and Scotty
I doubt it killed sauropods, i can’t think of any predator that could kill a fully grown sauropod.
This is a great video Viv. I definitely think that limited sample sizes have led to misunderstandings of the upper-limits of Theropods. It works the other way as well. _Nanuqsaurus hoglundi_ was claimed to be a pint-sized Tyrannosaurid on the basis of incredibly scrappy fossil evidence and the theory being based largely on it's place - and latitude - of discovery. The idea of resource scarcity inspired the notion of it _reportedly_ being a 6 metre long animal. The likes of Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus, in part, lived under the Aurora Borealis as well, though they did not exhibit dwarfism.
Coming from the Prince Creek Formation, in Alaska, in the High Arctic, it did make some sense though the evidence was far too sparse to be too sure on a 6-7 metre maximum adult size. The larger estimates are now hovering around 9-10 metres for the big adult _Nanuqsaurus hoglundi_ which to my mind, seems more reasonable, after taking a glance at Daspletosaurus, Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus. It wasn't a bad idea it's just that the evidence was far too limited to justify it, and so it begs the question, couldn't the same be said on the other end of the scale?
I often remind myself not to put too much stock in given upper size estimates for _any_ Dinosaur, because the chances are, there'd be a somewhat dubious margin of say 10-20% (I tend to stick to 10% as a generic rule of thumb), where giant individuals will exist. Obviously it would be great to be able to (safely, omnipotently, floating around in Minecraft Creative Mode style etc) see the Dinosaurs in their habitats and make Zoological studies (rather than Palaeozoological ones from the fractured hindsight of over 66 million years)
All the same, we have to deal with the taphonomic biases which beset most palaeontological study in general, regarding the sample sizes, preservational quality, factors in each palaeoenvironment creating preservational biases and then that little old problem known as geomorphological processes. Everything from plate tectonics and subduction of crustal strata (as happened to what had been the vast majority of the seabed of the ancient superocean of the Panthalassa/Panthalassic) to the typical geological faulting, folding and erosion processes that go on for hundreds of millions of years, can ruin the day of any fossil trying to make it to being found at all.
The old tropes of how fortunate it is to find any vertebrate fossils, begin to become exponentially unlikely and fortuitous, with the complexity of the preservation observed, the quality of the preservation and the potential animal behaviours, even possible to be demonstrated. All told, the odds of finding something like say, the Sue Specimen, are rightly considered astronomical. Most Dinosaur remains won't come close to 90% complete (or about ~93% complete in the case of Sue, from the top of my head IIRC)
Most Dinosaur skeletal remains in body fossils, won't get past 30% complete. Fossils begin as being lucky to be fossilised in the first place, then have millions of years of time to risk being destroyed or lost to time anyway. Right this moment, there are almost certainly fossils falling into rivers, into the oceans, to be destroyed hydrologically and eroded physically and chemically. There are almost certainly going to be more lost (by far) than are ever found.
And that is before we consider the human impacts on fossils like quarries often just destroying them unwittingly (yes fossils can be saved, but it's obvious the primary concern of a quarry is it's business related operations, and I have no doubt some exquisite fossils will have been utterly annihilated over the decades. It is sickening but there you go. Imagine surviving as a fossil, relatively intact, for 100,000,000 years, and then being dynamited in some quarry and then ground to powder or grit for buildings or components of something else? It's really tragic.
An inestimable treasure, lost forever, by industrial processes for no reason other than indifference. Then there are other ways this happens, like Dinosaur fossils having been ground down to powder for 'traditional medicine' and 'supplements' in China for about 5,000-6,000 or so years. Dinosaurs, being considered Dragons. Dragons, thought to be divine, and ancestral to the Emperors themselves. They represented power, virility and prosperity. Naturally, humans managed to make Dinosaur bones into alleged, ancient aphrodisiacs, while calling them Dragons.
It apparently still goes on, though I couldn't speak to that if it did or did not currently. I just know for sure it _did_ go on for literally thousands of years, and it makes one wonder how many unique specimens were completely destroyed, consumed and not to put to fine a point on it, shat out. It's just depressing. Then we have other ways a fossil can meet an untimely end because of humanity, like a war causing a museum to be obliterated by bomber raids (as happened in WWII; see Hamburg Museum) and also vandalism (see Canada in 2012 ish when a beautiful specimen of a Hadrosaur was slegdehammered to pieces over-Winter, breaking the hearts of the team of palaeontologists whom left it under a tarpaulin to protect it under from the elements while they waited for Winter to end; the specimen, destroyed by drunken youths being disgusting)
The odds are stacked against high quality vertebrate fossils being found at all, in general. They don't need humanity's help to get destroyed. Nature destroys more than we ever could. It's just extra depressing if humans do it on purpose or by accident. Like the Allied bombing raids on Hamburg obviously weren't specifically aimed at taking out the museum in WWII. It just fell foul of carpet bombing/area bombing in WWII. And that was that. Inestimable treasures from prehistoric times, turned to shattered, crumbling fragments and dust. Yes these are rarer examples (thankfully) though it illustrates the madness of a process of chance and fortune, that a lot of fossils have to unwittingly go through to get to palaeontological collections. It's not just unlikely they'll become a fossil in the first place. That's just where the process begins in earnest. I won't whip out the 'lottery win' trope to describe it though.
By implication, it always seems unwise to me for folks to stridently argue the toss about literal ten centimetre scales of difference between their favourite Theropod mascots and pin-ups so to speak. Human ego plays into things too often, with people fighting over it when really, it doesn't even need to be one. Ironically that can generate more work and keener focus on getting one argument across, and if anything, 'drama' in the palaeo world can be helpful in indirect ways.
Even so, I prefer a cooperative and constructive environment when looking at these things. I can't remember the last time I argued with anyone over the size of this or that Theropod, because I specifically avoided/avoid that kind of shouting match. i just want to try and be as up-to-date with the state of play in palaeontology, and keep refining what I think I already know about the subject, like everyone else doubtlessly is trying to do as well. Not one palaeontologist in the world can have anything like all the answers, and this is why the group effort in my view is invaluable and vital to making a difference.
More videos like this Viv, you're great.
Fantastic analysis! I always appreciate your comments.
@@TheVividen I look forward to your next video. I appreciate the effort put into them.
At this point, you guys can't tell me this thing wasn't created by a 5yo.
- The eyesight of a bird of pray
- Could probably see ultraviolet
- Supreme sense of smell
- Hypersensitive hearing
- Twice the bite force of a Saltwater Croc
- Teeth made to crush bones
- Superior agility
- Lower centre of gravity
- More muscular build
- As intelligent as a baboon
- Has more fighting experience
- America, f*ck yeah!
- Continues to get bigger
Next you're going to tell me they traveled to the future and hunted Megalodon and Livyatan.
No, I'm not a Giga fanboy...I'm a Carchar fanboy. But all jokes aside, T.rex is a freak of nature. Not saying it's made up, but look at those specs and tell me those aren't the stats of a maxed out video game character.
More than twice the “insignificant” bite force of the saltwater crocodile.!
Si.
(No hablemos de Spino)
S-tier
meanwhile Rexes around the continent are laughing reading this like a 1950s newspaper comic!
Scotty - "Sue, com'ere and see this! They say Stan was only this big! haha"
Jane - "wait til they find uncle Tiny, or cousin Earl!"