Ranting About Strong Female Characters for 15 minutes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ย. 2021
- Strong Female characters are amazing, however, I wanna rant for a little bit while I work on a few other vids: Female characters are a cornerstone when it comes to writing and entertainment, so, let's take some time and talk about the good, the bad and the just plain... What?
Also, I like Naoto - Just because she's in the thumbnail doesn't mean she's bad.
Most of the editing this video is from Toby-Tron
/ @toby-tron6029
/ mushy-killer2
Videos on Life is Strange:
• Ranting About Terrible...
• Ranting about Terrible...
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#strongfemalecharacters #Rant #Persona4 - เกม
I remember hearing something about “not making a strong female character but make a strong character that happens to be female” I forgot where I heard it though or who said it
I know Necrit mentioned it in one of the league things
where you heard: everytime there's a discussion about strong female characters
who said it: every writer talking about strong female characters
Yep pretty much my opinion too.
I think Emilia Clarke said this or something like it at one point.
The same argument can be made for everything
Not making a strong [blank] but making a strong character that happens to be [blank]
Chloe isn't a bad female character she's just a really bad character in general
Ohhhhhhhh.
To quote another female character of fame, "Por que no los dos?"
She’s not a bad character in general, she’s a well written _manipulative “friend”_
@@James-oj6ru ohhh, so she's a BAD character, not a bad CHARACTER
@@James-oj6ru I think Chloe walks on a VERY fine line. If you ask me, it comes down to whether the writers intended for players to perceive her that way. If so, they did a great job. If not, then they utterly failed.
Tbh, what about the strong female ANTAGONISTS? Maybe no one wants to write them because "oh god no, a wahmen has to lose"?
Azula from Avatar proves how great a female antagonist can be, without sexualizing or de-feminizing the character. She worked because she was a good written antagonist at first, and a female character second. In general good written characters need to be good written characters at first, and gender has to be second. Simple as that.
I feel like that goes for literally any character, especially one of an oppressed or minority group. They have to be a character first. A character is what makes a character.......a character. And yeah. Would love some more cool female antagonist. One of my favourites is Lusamine from the original Sun and Moon (before the Ultra games messed her up to become this weird misunderstood hero like what was that about.)
My favorite strong female antagonist is Big Mom from One Piece
This is a spoiler from a really good British T.V show called Utopia so I’ll keep this vague. But I think it has one of the best casts, including the female cast
Top my head, Kill La Kill is a great anime for strong female antagonists. If you can handle the ridiculous premise of two sexualized females who fight using the power of skimpy clothing called Kamui, it's a really great show with many great female characters to enjoy (Personal favourites being Nonon Jakuzure and Mako Mankanshoku for me). It also has one of my favourite English Dubs for anime that I highly recommend. My favourite out of the villains would have to Nui Harime just for she can feel so sweet and comedic, but also feel really intimidating through how nonchalant she can be, where she is just doing whatever she wants to do.
@@blueblazer9991 Glados.
To paraphrase a quote attributed to Freddie Mercury: Do what you want with Strong Female Characters, just don't make them boring.
For anyone wondering, the original quote was regarding his songs.
As a woman I agree with everything you said. The fact is that if people wrote women the same way they write men with flaws and development then they wouldn't have an issue with being called a Mary-Sue. People thinking that female characters need to be perfect or never face actual adversity to be "strong" severly ruins a character's potential. That's not strong that's boring. I'm also sick of people writing male characters as stupid and incompetent just make the female ones look better. If you're the smartest person in a room of idiots your not actually smart. How the male characters were treated in the Star Wars Sequels (especially Han and Luke) was inexcusable. How can anyone male or female claim to be a Star Wars fan and be ok with that? Also Rey is just garbage.
And I'd love to see you do a video on The Boss.
Jill in the Residential Evil 3 remake is awful and I actually liked her and Claire's original outfit.
Chloe from Life is Strange should in fact be burning in video game Hell. 🤣
If I had to make a Doom Marine Girl, adversity would be tremendous. Especially at first. You're facing *Hell,* and quite possibly a great many rogue elements who could see you as a prime sacrifice. Pressure, Fear, Horror, Terror... The dread of what might happen to you if you fuck up... Yes it'd put the Horror in Horror Action, and I might be making Classic Resident Evil worse, but that's something I'd honestly like to try. This won't be The Doom Slayer, naturally, and perceptions of that massive slab of man-meat can easily feed into her traumas and insecurities... Should I stop here or keep going?
@@TheAzureNightmare Well I've never played Doom, but fighting though hell should be hellish naturally. I mean if someone could make action horror actually scary that would be great.
thing is, the 90s got female characters right. Storm and Rogue from X-men, Felicia Hardy from Spiderman, Miss Bellum, Sally Acorn, Muriel form Courage, the Powerpuff Girls themselves, the entire Sailor Moon cast as well as the DC female characters, Lina Inverse etc. were all great, memorable, unique and flawed characters that worked well into their stories.
the change in culture over the years made mainstream writers struggle to make women "more" than the 90s and in doing so, they exaggerated "strong" features to the point where they became annoying caricatures. we got to the point where nobody in the industry understands how women work and it's painful to see.
Yeah my OC, has flaws, and had a lot of development in her life. So she should burn in silent hill.
The thing is, from what I've seen in recent years, it's not that writers can't create good female characters, it's the fact nowadays, females want a woman to be more of what a man is(strong, independent, masculine, stereotypical male stuff you'd normally see). In turn you have a woman character who comes off as unbelievable and unrelatable. There's not wrong with writing a female character being feminine, but also strong in her own way(emotionally strong, or mentally strong). I find those characters to be more interesting, grounded, and inspiring.
I'm not saying we can't have our Black Widows, Lara Crofts, Ellen Ripley, or Samus Arans; oh no, but don't make them solely there to be "strong woman" who can always win a fight, never make a mistake, highly intelligent, etc etc: A Mary Sue. People like characters that make mistakes, they become more believable, they like to watch a character struggle and grow to become someone better than what they were yesterday. THOSE are the female characters we need to see, and should be getting, even if it's just a mother living in a war torn country, trying to survive with her children, and having to make dire decisions that truly impact her and her family(choosing whether or not to kill someone for food, or stealing, selling her body for money; moral choices).
I agree, A strong women is more than (or at least should be) more than somebody that can pick up heavy things and "don't need no man". Strength is more than just physical, and just saying "I don't need to be in a relationship" or whatever isn't gonna be enough to convince me that you are a strong character.
Yeah the whole “don’t need a man” trope always bothered me. It suggests that women (or people in general) aren’t strong if they desire a relationship. You aren’t weak for wanting someone to depend on or have a connection with on that level.
Just a minor correction. The main character in Celeste is named Madeline, the mountain she climbs is called Celeste
That's what I was about to comment
Yes, someone said it!
For some reason I did not see that there was a pinned comment. Oh well, it's all good
@@poke_onix9235 to be fair op posted his comment around the time the video was posted, Manga only commented very recently meaning the "OMG IDOIT READ THE PINNED COMMENT" is kind of uneeded
One female character I love is Blaze the Cat from Sonic Rush. Not only is she a strong willed character with the respected duty of princess as well as protector of the Sol Emeralds and haver of awesome fire powers, but she also has the struggle of opening up to people and making friends which she overcomes throughout the game with the help of the most precious thing out there a.k.a Cream. Another character I'd like to point out is Lillie from Pokemon Sun and Moon. I felt endeared to her growing emotional strength after her seeing the Player do so much. That trip through Poni Island with her in her Z-Powered form showing how far she's truly come and subsequent finding and standing up to of her crazy mother was very enjoyable to see. Strong females as well as any well written characters are a delight to see and I find it nice that we have a good amount of examples of that in this day and age.
Meanwhile Lusamine didn't really grow at all after her redemption save for not being a terrible mother anymore.
I always though that Blaze was a Sonic from another dimension.
Another being that played rush? LET'S GOOO
@@mattwo7 Am I missing a whole game? What other game does she appear in?
@@blackpants7385 '06
My major issue with many modern female characters, in the west moreso, is that certain writers have just started taking traditionally masculine traits, both the good and the bad, and haphazardly slapped them onto their female characters. At best, this sort of thing comes off as a lack of understanding of the feminine on the part of the writer, at worst, it paints a picture of disdain or contempt for the feminine.
This mindset is why we're seemingly so inundated with these androgynous, crude, domineering, and generally unlikable female characters across all different forms of media.
Exactly. It's actually kind of sexist that many western media tends to equate masculine qualities with "strong" and feminine qualities with "weak". It's so ironically hilarious that in an attempt to be female-empowering, they're actually putting women down for acting like women
Notice how this only happens in Western media, or happens mostly in that kind of media.
At least my female Asriel, is extremely likeable unlike most chicks in media, and real life.
Unrelated to this discussion, but I just found out that MangaKamen deletes comments. I posted on his most recent community post that he gave Naoto bigger breasts, which he clearly did, and my comment was deleted. I didn’t even say he was a terrible person or anything, just pointing out a fact
@@UncannyEXP My theory is that certain other cultures are more comfortable with femininity.
I absolutely loved Samus's characterization in Dread. I love how when she drops into Kraid's lair, she has her guard up, not knowing what to expect. Then she sees Kraid, immediately dropping her guard, readying a charge shot. Clearly thinking, oh it's you. It's makes sense she doesn't think of Kraid as a serious threat, she's already defeated him twice.
Furthermore, Dread is Samus in the most danger and the most chaotic it has been despite the meticulous planned-out path by Raven Beak. Why wouldn’t she be anything but professional and serious?
Hopefully Samus actually does get a game more on interactions at some point; no matter the version Other M did her dirty localization problem or not.
Also, when you get caught by an Emmi it's not "oh no, you did a die, try again"... Instead you have two extremely (sometimes BS but besides the point) narrow windows to counter.
Even when death is certain and unavoidable she still fights back, not because she's a strong female character but because she's a strong character, who just happens to be female.
Naoto is a great character. Her social link and character is great! She really is nuanced. Through her social link you find out more about her and how much she values being a detective. Such a great character.
Hence why she is best girl
naoto is the worst character in all of p4, even teddie is better.
She’s also the best and (excluding Kanji) only good character in Persona 4
@@lucassworldofletsplays9270 no, naoto is a terrible character and her design is atrociously bad
P4 has a good and likeable cast in general.
Sure, they might seem one note anime tropes at first but they develop to be more than that.
Personally, I love Naoto, Kanji and Dojima the most
I don't know, my thing about any character, male or female, I don't need a character to be super compelling to the plot, or undergo a major transformation to become my favorite. Though, Naoto is my favorite Persona 4 character, aside from Kanji.
until they ruined the character in her spin off novel
@@wander1139 Long hair Naoto was a f*ckin' mistake
Naoto and Kanji have a lot in common. They both have interests that are against what society pictures them and that alone makes them suffer on the inside. Picturing people berating them because "oH gIrLs ArE sUpPoSsEd To LiKe ThIs AnD gUyS aRe SUpPoSsEd To LiKe ThAt." that's dumb and I loved that they stuck their ground. Naoto and Kanji are my favorite Persona 4 characters and watching them come to terms with their interests is beautiful.
So like a static character?
How did they ruin her character ? Never saw the novel and now im curious
Marianne from Fire Emblem, Aqua from Kingdom Hearts, Rosalina from Mario: Galaxy, Samus from Metroid, Bayonetta, Clementines from Walking Dead, and Lighting Farron from FFXIII are my favorite female characters.
I might not hate FFXIII (I do hate the Majora's Mask knockoff though, I ragequit at the bargain bin Bombers' Notebook part) but "Nomura Cloud III: Female edition" (Squall of course being Noruma Cloud II) is not one of my favorite anything.
And also literally every main female characters in Xenoblade 1&2 are just... Awesome. Even my least favorite Fiora is still a good written character and not merely just a love interest for Shulk.
What if the Aqua from KonoSuba was the same one from Kingdom Hearts?
@@TheAzureNightmare I'd asked what hit her on the head.
notice how most of them are from japanese media.
the west has really dropped the ball in recent years, i'm very upset with us.
As a girl myself, I HATE when people say media doesn't have that many strong female characters. Just in video games we have Lara Croft, Samus, Chun-Li, Bayonetta, Zelda, Inkling, 2B, literally all of the Sonic, Pokemon and Persona girls, and SO MANY MORE. Yet they act like they don't exist and proceed to give awards to Life is Strange and similar games for their "female representation". Shut up and play VA-11 Hall-A.
@ǞЯƮΦЯiǞ РęПDЯǞgΦП I see Etihw as a female character too (hence "Lady"). On the genderbent april fools game she has a male version, wich suggests regular Etihw is female. The Okegom wiki recently changed her gender to "Female" too.
Probably because most of the characters listed look sexy, and modern female characters must be like men in almost every way.
Also, funny how this is talked about all the time, and yet gay and trans characters are very rarely talked about mainstream, aside from Disney tokenism.
When they say not that many I assume they mean in comparison to the amount of strong male characters, which I'm not about to count all the possible characters that fall under the "strong character" so I'll just say if a certain type of character in media is harder to find than other types then one could see that as there being too little of it.
This isn't a videogame, it's an anime BUT have you watched Gintama?
It has in my opinion some very well-written female characters. And a lot of them.
One advice on tumblr once said that all characters have flaws, however the writers don't always see those flaws. In a sense, Mary Sues are simply characters whose writer doesn't know them enough, resulting in that character losing relatability and even likability every time the writer tries to include the character in the story.
That or, conversely, the character does have flaws... via the consequences of her action. She's a pilot at age 15, the youngest in the Star Fleet? Cool. And most likely her peers would isolate her and she may have feelings of loneliness, difficulty socializing and maybe even feelings of arrogance or inferiority. And those consequences suddenly make that accomplishment not as great as on paper. To me, it's less the flaws or lack of, more the lack of consequences and how the world bends to them.
@@IceQueen975 Yes, consequences. If a flaw doesn't have consequences, was it a flaw to begin with? TELLING me that X is reckless and impulsive doesn't make much impact ("You're a loose cannon, X!"); SHOWING me that they are reckless and impulsive by having them rush into a fight where someone gets their ass beat for no reason, or they get baited by the antagonist into rushing off on false premises, leaving them out of the way so the antagonist can achieve some objective does
I’m going to take notes on how to become a even stronger girl
Do u have a closet full of these profile pics? And did u draw All of them?
@@pokuhmoo9415 Actually Yes and no
@@pokuhmoo9415
Obviously you gotta have a good closet
All you need to do is 100 sit ups, 100 push ups and a 10km walk every day and you should be strong enough to one hit all that is in your way.^^
The problem I have with how a lot of "strong female characters" are often written, is that they tend to be male characters that happen to have tits. Where their strength is often tied directly to common masculine character traits, and whatever token feminine traits they have is often simply their sexual attractiveness and/or availability. Thou this depends on how to define strong female character.
Sometimes, though it's also been increasingly common to have them be more and more androgynous and condem any kind of feminity as well. You can see that very well in the more modern Marvel and DC comics, where the female characters often look more masculine than the men and breasts are virtually nonexistant. Seriously, most of the female characters look like singers from a late 80s early 90s boyband.
A strong character is someone the audience can relate to on a personal level (not their gender, sexuality, etc...). And a strongly written character is a character that can stand on their own without putting down the other characters.
A compelling character is probably a more acurate description, and you can certainly write a compelling character who can represent a group properly while still being compelling to those from outside that group. A "generic strong" character is designed to still try appeal to tha masses at the expence of any particular compelling nuance to any groups they belong to. Yes not every character who is black/female/lgbtq or whatever needs to directly be tied to it but at the same time it can be annoying looking at say, Disney, producing a "gay" character who shows pretty much 0 on screen gay implecation or struggles that would make the character realistic because they don't want to offend the christians watching or get the movie not showing in China (see every main Disney or MCU movie not having any LGBTQ characters show anything that can't just be easily dubbed or editted out for other countries. Steve Rogers + Peggy Carter or Peter Parker + MJ gets very clear romantic character motivations on screen but no LGBTQ characters get anything even remotely close to that and as such the characters don't connect well like Captain Marvel)
A good example of a compelling character is Lee from The Walking Dead. Lee at his core is presented as a man with a wealth of knowledge about history (his passion and line of work) with a good heart and good intentions who made a serious mistake by murdering his wife's lover in a fit of rage. Now given a chance to redeem himself in the new world of the zombie outbreak we as the player experience his hardships and tough decisions alongside him. You don't actually need to be a black man in his 30's from Atlanta to be able to empathise with him, but the game as a medium and the writing make any issues regarding race compelling for anyone even if you lack personal experience with it. Throughout the game we know Lee, and by extension the player, is trying their best to be good and to help those around them while protecting Clemantine as a guardian figure. So when we encounter characters like Kenny (paraphrased) say to Lee "You know how to pick a lock? You're....urban after all?" we as the player feel offended alongside Lee even if the player themselves isn't black. Anyone can look at the situation, knowing full well what kind of character Lee is and how much Lee has helped Kenny until this point, and respond appropriately with "WTF Kenny? You know me by now, why the hell would you assume such a thing just because of how I look?". It's compelling for minority players who have experience with this kind of prejudice but it's done in a way that is also compelling for those who haven't faced racial prejudice before since Lee is an extension of the player so such an assumption is seen as a slight against the player also.
A similar writing approach (at least for video games) could be taken for nearly any character of any background if done well enough in the presentation as opposed to just excluding it entirely or bringing it up without much time for the player/protagonist to connect like they would with Lee.
@@caldw615 Why would you want a character to "represent" a group in such a superficial way? That mentality automatically makes your character a token of whatever group you're trying to appease and looks forced to "outsiders", no matter how much nuance is added. Personality, goals, insecurities background should come first, THEN make them gay, black, female etc....
I get what you mean, but you can make a character a certain race or gender and contextualize things like motivation or circumstances based on those. These aren't mutually exclusive things.
@@lukebytes5366 You can. But audiences can tell when more effort is put into making a "representation of [insert popular minority here]" rather than making a good story that everyone (regardless if they share the same traits as that character) can enjoy.
Sigourney Weaver's Ellen Ripley from Alien movies is to be one of the BEST female lead characters in popular culture, she's strong, not physically, but by her attitude and personality. In first movie we see Ripley as a someone who is deticated to her work, goes by rules and always uses her smart thinking to lead others when things go to shit, her encounter with xenomorph puts her into situation where she uses her knowledge and sharp mind to defeating it, rather than beating the living crap out from it.
And the second film devolps her character more, and in a suprising way that many didn't saw that coming. If you have seen the film, you know what I'm talking about.
Agreed. Ripley is perfect.
Remarkably, there was another phenomenal heroine back in the freakin 1950s: Dale Evans, cowgirl wife of the INCREDIBLY popular cowboy Roy Rogers. While it was more of a "family show", she was shown to be incredibly talented with the pistol (she'd shoot guns out of villains' hands sometimes), and would literally bark at thugs, ready to blast them to eternity with one dumb move. Roy meanwhile was insanely athletic and he would actually jump thugs on horses to pin them on the ground (they were an amazing duo). But what made Dale astonishing was this: put her around kids, and she'd shed virtually all of that toughness and literally sweet talk to them. It's no surprise that children of the era absolutely loved her and Roy (countless older ladies online have said they dressed up as Dale when then they were little girls). Her character completely destroys the myth that a lady can't be strong and gentle both. She and other heroines really do deserve more attention.
I think Sarah Connor is that kind of character too, at least in the original Cameron movies. At the beginning she's just an everyday person, spends a bit of time being the typical damsel in distress but when nobody believes her about the Terminator it's believable in the second film that she's learned how to fend for herself. Her character evolves INTO the badass, she isn't just badass for no reason.
@@SynphamyMusic For sure, Sarah Connor is a legend. Terminator 2 is one of my favorite movies.
Naoto got my attention there so I clicked.
If we put Ann, Naoto, and Mae in the same room as Chloe, how long would it take until one of them is pushed to call out Chloe’s BS?
Personally, I enjoy Queen as a strong female character, she’s funny (Does “Kris get the banana!” ring a bell?), her affably evil personality showing her nice side, even praising Noelle for being strong when explaining how she’s been looking for her to use in her plans, and is generally entertaining.
When she learns about what the Knight’s actions will entail, she’ll gladly side with the heroes, showing she really is a nice person.
Yeah, she thought she was going to make a better place for everyone even if it took her to act as a villain. But as soon as she heard Ralsei out, she was like "oh snap, nevermind that". I also like how half the time she's just hanging around with her supposed enemies, like they're not enemies at all. I dig these kinds of villains.
Naoto would be the first, and it wouldn't take more than a minute.
A good female character for me is someone who shows actual emotions, good and bad.
Like fear, sadness, anger and such...and still pushes on...
I dunno why having someone cry or be afraid is seen as such a bad thing...
Most female characters I've seen nowadays are mostly just badass and strong without any moments of weakness that humanizes them.
Even in animes is rare nowadays.
Well the popular animes nowadays to be exact.. (cough) Isekais (cough)
Yeah my female Asriel’s, had a really hard life, but past everything she had to give up she still pushed on because you could say she’s full of determination especially since she has a determination soul, but despite being a strong sexy lady she still feels a lot of emotions i mean she is a Asriel, they are usually pretty emotional.
@@Mario123007 I mean JuJustu Kaisen.
Hey wait a second, isn’t that just a normal written character? Not in the sense of symbolism, meaning or philosophy which we’re not going to touch that but just… how humans are like or how characters are supposed to be written to an extent?
Oh right… main character are supposed to never cry, especially strong female characters, unless it’s made by Russian in which case, _EVERYONE will cry, shocked, sadden or just feels empty by the turn of events in the books or games_
@@Mario123007 isekai has one good series that contradicts that thankfully, as re zero has currently one of my favorite girls in anime, Emilia. Sadly rem has not gotten to her development yet in the anime but Emilia is fucking shining. She's awesome.
Bro I honestly am with you. Sometimes people have a weird way to write a character in general not just the female characters and I just want someone to write a good story for once in this current period.
I think one of the better strong females I know would be Maka from soul eater. In the beginning, she's very stubborn, brash and has troubled working with others, including her own weapon partner, soul.
As the series progresses, she learns to be more open minded and understanding. She manages to fix her partnership with Soul and learn to better connect with him, starts accepting Blackstar and admits that he is stronger than her, and even goes as far as to save Crona and bring them into the light.
She even learns to eventually accept her father despite the mistakes he's made and has some heart to heart moments with him.
I don’t like how she defeated the villain with a lame ass punch especially since i love her final scythe, also don’t forget about Yoko, and Ryuko.
@@joshshrum2764 the anime really ruined alot of stuff
I burst out laughing at that part for some reason
@ǞЯƮΦЯiǞ РęПDЯǞgΦП i will say this the part where death literally takes the whole city and control it like a Mecha was so out of place but also hilarious at the same time
I think that Yukiko Amagi is a lot stronger than anyone gives her credit for. She starts out a timid, overworked honors student who feels stifled by what she feels is everyone's expectations for her - and reacting to it by trying to rebel and run away - to realizing how her family, friends, and co-workers care first and foremost about her well-being and want only for her to achieve what she wants, and realizing that she wants to protect that home and everyone in it, and thus embracing the very role she shunned at first. It's a beautiful development of her character, and why I think she's a strong character.
I thought it was a neat touch that Naoto wore platform shoes to make herself look taller, and by extension older.
I believe in one persona spinoff manga, somebody pointed out that fact and she got really flustered.
Two words.
Nobara kugisaki.
She made me understand that for a character to be truly "strong"
She suffers like anyone else and overcomes it in her own way which is why we look at male characters and think they are badass
Media has this hesitation of not hurting female characters too much "because owo fragile girly"
Which tells you they don't respect their craft
People nowadays mix up character strength with physical strength.
They are not the same thing.
A recent example I always bring up is disneys Artemis fowl.
The movie version of Artemis particaipates in on screen fights while the book version can barely take a bonk to the face.
The thing is though, I and a lot of people consider movie Artemis to be the weak inferior version of the 2.
This is because the characters strength in this case was never in his fighting capability but his presence and contribution to the story.
Movie Artemis doesn't actually do anything to move the plot along. Everything he needs just falls into his lap, down to a perfect kidnap victim landing in his backyard as soon as he goes, "I need a hostage, but where could I find one?"
Book Artemis: actively moves the plot forward. He tracks down info.
When he needs a specific hostage he stakes out a location with a high chance of providing the result he needs for weeks.
He tests his trump card, so when it comes time to bust it out, he knows he already won.
And he constantly talks on equal footing with beings of both physical and mystical superiority. Often times completely nullifying their advantage over him just by explaining why their power doesn't scare him.
Notice that I at no point provided a feet of power for the character? Yet he comes across far more competent and strong then his skull bashing movie counterpart.
It’s definitely about having determination, and the mental fortitude along with physical strength.
Minor Manga JoJo Spoiler
it's weird that JoJo started as a series about strong men saving the day now having the plot center around strong females while all of it still feeling like "JoJo"
Yah know just go to show strong male and female characters are the usually written and presented the same pretty much
This is why Araki, is a fucking legend.
A strong character doesn't mean nothing. It's merely an adjective similar to good that critics use so that they don't feel like repeating themselves.
A compelling character is probably a better way to describe it than strong one.
It also is the reason as to why poorly-written but physically fit characters or poorly-written but mentally fortified characters or even poorly-written minorities/minority equivalents can be claimed as “strong characters”. It’s that very sleight of hand people use when they claim bad characters are strong.
Personally I like the main girls in Black Lagoon they are actual strong female characters with some really crazy pasts.
True, as someone who just recently watched the series for the first time, Revy, Belalaika, Roberta and Yukio were definitely great examples of strong female characters.
And don’t forget the original female anime badass with a tragic past Fei Valentine.
Playing Mass Effect Legendary allowed me to refamiliarize myself with the characters, and remember how many are nuanced, complex, flawed, with various qualities. Tali, Liara, Miranda are female characters I really enjoyed. They are developed over up to 3 games and you feel like you've seen them at their best, their worst, and everything else. That growth feels earned, relatable, and believable.
Outside of that, I've always been a fan of the character development in the Legend of Heroes series for the same reasons. Estelle and Renne in particular had character arcs that are some of my favorites in recent memory. And the payoff for both was so satisfying.
It just sucks that nowadays more writers invest into such a ham-fisted way of writing where everything is given to the character and nothing's earned.On top of that, the media legitimizes it. The quality seems to be secondary to the outcome now, which is sad.
Jack is also good as well. I feel like since the Legendary edition came more people grown to Appreciate her more.
Then comes Cold Steel and pissed all over that turning every female into waifu bait, Estelle is my favourite girl in the series while Rean is my most disliked.
It's not about sex but about character
I see Naoto in the thumbnail so I must watch.
Edit: Also since we are talking about strong female characters, had 2 in mind that I think fits.
First is Noelle Silva from Black Clover. Despite it being my favorite underrated manga, Noelle is a highlight. Started as your typical rich noble snob tsundere girl that acts like a bitch. But has shown to have flaws. Her family matters is a mess, she has self confidence issues, she can't control her magic, and didn't want to be apart of the Black Bulls. But over time she got over and started to trust her comrades, she started to get some control of her powers, she finally stood up against her brother abuse to her and started to fight back, gain respect to those less fortunate than her, and now dealing with the killer of her mother as she is probably one of the most powerful characters in the series. The best part is we see this growth in relation to her powers as while she began to develop more as a character, her powers also develop. And I love that a lot.
Second is Jill from Va-11 Hall-a. Jill has one of the more relatable main characters as we take a couple of weeks into her shoes in a dystopian future. She isn't the one to fight the system, she is just living as best as she can. She works as a bar tender and meet a colorful cast of characters. But we see the troubles she went through. Her meeting a Lilim (Basically a robot race), that was facing actual death and how he is coping with it, her relationship being very rough with the girl she loved and how she left, only for the little sister of that girl to come down and deliver terrible news, her admiration of her boss, the indifference of the shady shit her coworker gets into, and how she generally interacts with customers. She is rather wise and tries to give advice, no matter how snarky she gets, the best she can. And at one point a friend of hers decides to take her roll, where the game than changes and get to see the sprites of Jill for the first time. That I liked a lot.
Naoto is best girl in persona 4
It’s a very nice naoto
@@solidskullz5736 Her Dancing all Night outfit is probably her best outfit she has. Still looks like it can fit a man but since she is starting to accept her being feminine, the outfit has a bit of the transition to accept her feminine side is apparent. And it's really nice to see. Also hot still.
I heard that was part of her character. I haven’t found a way to play 4 yet but I can’t wait till I do. I’ve played 3 and 5 and this is the last one I need to play
@@solidskullz5736 Yeah in terms of Golden she fully embraced her femininity and had the outfit that fully supports this. Dancing all night was either before or after that, don't know which side. But either way I like this and tells a bit of her character with the progression of her design alone. Which is top notch.
Compleatly agreed. Sadly western media thinks that a "strong femal character = Punch hard" ehich is just the most braindead way to look at it.
If a character can kick ass than... so what? I like Bayonetta NOT because she can beat up the bad guys BUT because of the extra traits that she exibits and the way she develops over the story Especialy in the first game.
2:56 "Just because I like *something* doesn't mean I can't have issues with it."
This. Is. So. True. Personally, I cannot seem to express my likings for something (like a film or even toy product) without some nutcases getting all over me just to constantly remind me about the negatives that do not even exist (IMO) or the negatives *I already am aware of.* Then when I say something negative about something I like regardless, those SAME types of people feel obligated to tell me that I am just a hater who has no right to say zip about anything. It is either "you like something unconditionally or hate it unconditionally" to these people and they drive me into a loophole of insanity. Some people forgotten that there is a middle ground at times and those same people turn out to be the most toxic. What is sad is that they actually think they done the world a favor...
As someone who used to be one of these people, this is why I can't truly involve myself in online arguments anymore. It's not about sharing opinions about what you like or don't like with something, it's become tribialism to the point people who actually agree with each other fight because of a few details.
I distinctly remember around the end of 2017 (when I was one of these people admittedly) where I got into an argument about whether sonic colors sucked or not, and got labeled at one point as hating on unleashed despite me liking both games. Not to mention the sonic forces debacle and the "sonic forces defense squad" which was used against anyone under the sun who likes the game.
I wonder if there is way to make a really Good Strong Female Character, with good plot, character development and more
Like Lara Croft?
Does Sailor Moon or Kim Possible count?
All 3 Powerpuff girls from the original series?
@@giantpinkcat hm well I don’t know about sailor moon? but for Kim possible I think she is a good strong female character
I assume this is sarcasm
The Netflix show Arcane has a lot of awesome female characters that are cool in different aspects not just being strong but being great characters in general.
This is literally what happens when you let two guys that are familiar with lore write a simple story where every character is likable because they are INTERESTING, not because of social justice that needs to be shown for god fking knows how many times
@@dmitriystarostin8023 too many
Of course there are many strong female characters that are well written, but big companies like to pander by being "feminist" and creating boring or obnoxious "strong" women characters and pretend that they're inspiring.
Here's a tip, if some company is advertising characters as being inspiring for (insert disadvantaged group here) then they don't actually care about that group but rather to exploit those people into getting them to buy their product. If a character is actually a strong female character, then I can see that clearly; you don't need to point it out.
My thoughts on this one is whether the character is male or female make sure that they have flaws and are relatable. Make them lose & grow mentally and physically from it. Make them human despite being fictional characters. Show them making bad decisions and the consequences for them.
A lot of people do saying having someone they love die for a spark in their development is lazy writing, and is over played, but i agree with you in needing it like my OC, went through some pretty scarring moments in her life, and even when she thought she was powerful enough to protect everything she lost someone precious to her in a blink of a eye.
5:08 Oh damnit, that reminds me of my covert-narcissistic control freak of a late grandmother... I was her "golden child" (my mom was her scapegoat since childhood) and there was a time in my teenage years where I had a mental health support person who would hang out with me after school but _my grandma_ used her mental health credentials to replace her and then proceeded to talk sh*t about her while she was doing the job I mentioned. At the time I had no idea what was really going on or that she had actually only gotten into mental health because she would use severely disabled people as a source of unrequited and unconditional affection, which I later realized was exactly what she was doing to me...
I hate to bring up the debate between Western and Eastern media, as both can be good and not one over the other, but you ever noticed the "strong, independent woman" archetype is only really used in Western media? In interviews and developer commentaries you hear so much about how a certain female character is written to be capable and taking charge of her own life but always shy away from making them even a little feminine. Not asking them to be drop dead gorgeous all the time, but it's inherently sexist when you write a female character a certain way and then lambast when someone else does it differently, and often better.
Some of my favorite strong female characters: Isabeau from SMT IV, Crymaria Levin from Valkyria Chronicles 4, Caitlin from Pokémon, Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky and many more.
I think changing the line from "you want Stars? I'll give how Stars" was the worst dialogue based decision in that game, but the Railgun was fucking great, that's the kind of whacky woohoo bullshit I love
Ngl someone needs to redub that remake scene with the original wuote
Or if the quote had to be somehow different, it could’ve just been: ”You wanted Stars. Here’s some Stars.”
Different wording, same meaning.
@@Novice9241
Might as well just use the original?
@@zigzoinks5493 No argument there, but considering Jill had the railgun in Nemesis’ mouth, that might’ve been even more badass.
@@Novice9241
Uh sure…?
One thing i can confidently say for sure.
People are gonna LOVE Jolyne Cujoh in the upcoming JoJo anime.
She is the type of strong female rebellious character i want to see in any form be it Cartoon,Anime,Video games,Movies..You name it.
I like the way you brought up and explained naoto,
To me Naoto and characters like her are part of why i like tomboys in media, and even Kanji helps me accept that i like cute things as a straight male, when we devolve people as stereotypes we force them into groups and not let them be themselves and its toxic to force characters to only represent what we want them to be like people thinking kanji is closet gay when that wasnt the point of his arc and naoto isnt trying to be trans but if viewing them helps someone come to and accept their issues like viewing being gay in a positive light or accepting themself as they truely are i think thats fine too
I agree about Mae, she's a strong character and very likable which made me enjoy playing through NITW.
Another strong female character I can think of is Blaze the Cat not because of her flames (though it's one reason), but mostly because of the character development she went through in Rush and was shown in Rush to be compasionate and that her character development stuck. Can't say much about her appearances in other games which only brings several questions as to why she's there.
I've learned a lot from this video. Your content is such good quality. Keep up the great work man!
"What I want from female characters is to see them go through trials and tribulations and becomes stronger because of those events"
Oh, so a character arc then? I'd like that too.
I completely agree with you on this one. Companies and idealistic writers create walking talking tropes and clichés too Down right self insert. it's not that i'm looking for a complex character, im looking for a being that makes logical and consistent sense with in the writers fiction. That's all. Go to town on who or what she is, too the likes of Looney Tunes or Metal Gear Solid. Just make a compelling character.
You realize that you simply cannot write a story without tropes, right?
@@albedo5455 Well of course, it's how you ues them. It's just now writers are doing the bare minimum with exceptionally good art, but are weighed down by the writing.
For example; the first and second the first and second season of the promise never land, all of Netflix anime reboots, the dumpster fire of the last of us 2.
It's impossible to keep your immersion within the characters (because let's be fair, they carry whole fucking story) because it's so fucking bad and unbelievable.
But i do agree with you, it's just how you used them.
Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky and its sequel are PACKED with great female characters--MC, party members, supporting cast, and even villains! It was great to see so many women casually filling such diverse roles in the cast--mercenaries, pilots, mechanics, Captain of the Royal Guard, and the Queen. Motivations that are personal, character growth, witty dialogue--this game does it right.
Estelle might be one of my favorite female protagonists ever.
@@SteelSpurs obviously Bestelle is the best.
Yea
Estelle is awesome because she shows that being optimistic and encouraging isn't a weakness but a strength.
She may be physically weaker than Joshua and Loewe, but she challenges their beliefs and ends up winning them over to her side.
That's pretty badass.
@@BknMoonStudios once again, Bestelle is the best.
I agree with what you said here man we need to see more of the struggles life sucks and we need to see how people can actually grow better from it. Thanks for the video man.
You’ve made very good points, and I agree 100%, and I would love to see a video in the future further delving into this subject.
This also isn’t really that relevant but maybe one talking about kanji too? Considering some people tend to forget the nuances when it comes to his and naoto’s characters, it’s just something that I feel needs to be pointed out because my god if I keep seeing people argue about this, I’m going to commit lol.
I would love to see you do a whole skit while Snake climbs the ladder in the background.
Yay!!!!!!!
Excellent video. To add on to your point, I’d say the best example for me would be Integra Hellsing from Hellsing and Hellsing Ultimate and Noelle Vermillion from Black Clover are two great examples of what writers should strive for in terms of writing great female characters. Appearances aside, both have great yet flawed personalities whilst being given well executed storylines that show more of their character growths as the story progresses.
Noel Vermilion is from BlazBlue. I think you're actually referring to Noelle Silva.
MangaKamen: I happen to like goth girls.
Me: Hey! This isn't RebelTaxi!
I just got to mention that your outro music totally slaps and I love listening to it. Would be nice to hear the whole thing. 😎🎵🎶🎵
You know, demeaning a female character to just "she doesn't need no man" is forgetting that you can still be successful and have a love life. It'll be compelling if she DID get a love interest, but one that raises her up and helps her grow more as a woman. I hate the society's idea of what a woman should be; a makeup wearing beauty that wears dresses, skirts and heels, yes, those are not inheritably bad things for a woman to wear but only if she herself loves wearing them. My idealistic idea of what a woman is one who is proud of who she is and doesn't allow anyone to disrespect her or put her down, she loves who she is but not in the way that she comes off as vain. This video helped me actually get an idea of this female character I have who wears only tactical gear because of her loved ones dying due to a fight, and she uses that to protect others, that's her motivation.
I love Casca, because she struggles with having to suppress her genuine femininity. Strong Female Characters have a way of demonizing femininity as a weakness and 'pick me' behavior.
There is all this talk about girls' body image when compared to airbrushed perfect magazine models. What about fale characters who act perfect and never show weakness or vulnerability? Kind of props up the victim-blaming culture because human women (and men) don't always react perfectly strong and snarky in weird and scary situations.
I'd also like to see like a part two or something else to help show off you most fav strong female characters in media. One of my favs is Makoto Nijima. I don't think I need to go into full detail as to why. Same with Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear.
Would it kill Chloe to stop dying
Since we’re talking about strong female characters that go through trials and tribulations there is one that comes to my mind. Arcee from Transformers Prime closed herself from feeling after losing her first partner; Tailgate, to Arachnid. After meeting Cliffjumper she opens back up to her emotions again only to lose him like her first partner and in her grief and anger she drives off into a restaurant parking lot where she meets Jack Darby. From then on she became fiercely protective of him and underwent a lot of development from encountering Arachnid again to becoming lost in rage after finding out Starscream killed Cliffjumper. She learns from it all and uses those experiences to better herself and shares some advice to others who went through the same things she did.
One example that comes to my mind would be a character perhaps Kino from Kino's journey. Though despite being not very developed as character(given the the focus of themes ), they do present kino desicion and reaction towards each conflict outside and within the different cities.
Not to mention she has confidence in accepting herself as they, marksman and traveler. Dont know if that counts tho.
Usually when it comes to well written strong female characters it almost always has to be ocs because well most people that make em know how to write a female character
I'm still 10000% up to hearing you talk about mgs3 pls
This is pretty good vid. I sometimes stop by to watch your vids time to time and all i can say this as someone who's aspiring to make a game one day hell even a comic it does bring a lot of good points for female characters. Well not just female but overall any character you gotta go more in depth make your characters flawed and if you just make some girl that her whole character and personality is "i don't need a man. Man are cringe lol" then it's going to be boring, but i guess that depends on a story you wanna write. Not all stories gotta focus on girl and guy stuff, sometimes you just want a character to be some what relatable, likable and well flawed no matter what who they are man or woman
Reminds me how Medaka Kurokami... which by all logic is suppose to be a mary sue, but its written so that her being that is actually a bad thing...
I do often try to write my characters with respect to their agency or unique characteristics, and that does lead to characters that i would consider strong. That is why i love most of my characters and find them to be people i am confident and writing. Compared to characters i wrote as a kid, who typically lacked agency in their own stories.
11:31 is that the pursuit theme from the great ace attorney?? Never expected to hear it in this video. It's so quiet too I almost missed it. Thought it was from my playlist lol.
I hate when a strong female character's only trait is that she is strong and female. They all start looking the same pretty quickly.
Yeah mangakamen I would love to see you rant about metal gear and the boss.
This reminds me why I love Shamir so much personally. She’s seen (and wishes to be) more of a cold distant person who doesn’t really care for peoples shit. Hardened a lot from losing her partner during the war and becoming a mercernary
In her supports though she opens up and you can see she cares for the students, like her support with Leonie where she teaches her archery, along with focusing on how Shamir took her biggest fear (bugs) into a tool for sharpening her skills as an archer as she uses bug target practices to literally both face her fear and teaching Leonie how to harness said dislike of insects into a tool for training.
I just hate it when people try to make a 'strong female character' and they're just like: short hair, muscular physique, anger management problems, Lesbian with boundary issues, no empathy or emotions beyond "GRRR AM ANGY", and no feminine traits whatsoever; you didn't write a strong woman you just wrote a toxic male without a Y chromosome.
not to be rude but, how is being lesbian a masculine trait im confused
Whoop, there it is!
@@actualgoblin They din't said that being a lesbian is a masculine trait. That makes no sense. It's just what they described is an annoying lesbian character type.
Seeing naoto in the thumbnail reminds me of "saying naoto is trans contradicts her entire character arc"
One of the characters I’ll always love is Beatrix. From FF9. Yeah, she is a strong woman, but she’s more than that. She’s dutiful, but troubled by her allegiance to the Royal family. Being both protector and friend. And yet, under all her accomplishments, she feels unsatisfied, and even starts to question Queen Brahne. (I admit that they should’ve took the time to develop her character during disk 2, but thankfully she grows a lot more during Disk 3, as She becomes more open to her personal desires and her connection with Steiner.
Strong indeed. Beating the heroes. Twice. But still not a mindless fighting machine. Still one of my favorite FF characters.
I wanna hear Kamen talk about Metal Gear! It's right up his alley!
10:58 Please do, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Kanji, pretty much my favourite character from P4.
3 of my fav strong female characters are Blaze the Cat, Jill Valentine, and Naoto Shirogane.
the argumentation and examples are excellent for sure, but I personally just can't get enough of the animated avatar's facial expressions etc xD
do you know who is the strongest female character in video games?
cirno
The strongest of the strong.
Cirno, the master of Maruq.
Ahum Susie, from Deltarune.
Great vid, yes please talk about The Boss if you haven't already,.
I’m so used to hearing Naoto’s new VA in the Persona 4 anime due to recently rewatching it that hearing her voice from the OG game was actually a bit jarring lol.
I love Sophie from Howl's Moving Castle (both movie and books)
~Yes! Sophie is great.
I think that the subject of strong characters is a super complex discussion, but as a shorthand, I believe characters are at their strongest when they are a) motivated and aspirational, and b) have multiple sides to their aspiration. The Naoto example you brought up is a good one because all the elements of her that she struggles with (her age, her sex, and society's expectations of her profession) are all elements that feed into each other. It creates a cohesive thread which makes it easy for an audience to latch on to because if they can't sympathize with one element, they'll likely be able to sympathize with another. It could be that a male player may not as easily understand Naoto's struggle for recognition as a detective as a result of her sex (I'm pretty sure most would, but I'm speaking mostly hypothetically), but I'm pretty sure we all felt we didn't get the respect we felt we deserved when we were kids. And once one sticks their toes in those waters they can see where the rest of the elements of that story flows, because you can see how these two experiences can be parallel and relate with each other. Top that with WHY she wants to be a detective and it makes her journey all the more understandable and easy to root for.
11:46 have I gone mad or is that Pursuit 2017 ~ resolve of Ryūnosuke Naruhodō?
the issue i noticed with a lot of "strong female characters" especially recently with anything from disney (all their live action remakes, star wars, and marvel to a lesser degree) is that they seem to think strong=flawless. these characters start the story off essentially fully formed, with nowhere to go, and the implication that everything must change around them. bell is a smart inventor who the town judges. mulan is a badass fighter who needs to repress her powers. luke skywalker needs to let rey convince him there's still hope. they're not allowed the opportunity to change and develop and grow as characters. it's like starting a DnD game where your character is level 20 and everyone else starts at level 1.
I came for the Naoto booba, but I stayed for a very insightful and well-made video about both good and bad “strong” female characters.
But I’m entirely glad to hear ya talk about Night in the Woods! I played it around two years ago for the first time, and the main reason I enjoy Mae so much is due to how relatable she is. She’s kinda like a female Scott Pilgrim in a sense where she’s lazy, selfless and pretty thoughtless, basically doing and saying whatever she pleases without thinking of the repercussions. But the main reason this works is because Mae still has her own insecurities, being that much like any young adults her age, she has no idea what to do with her life and who she wants to be. That and she actually feels guilt over her actions as well, such as when her parents lost a lot of money due to being sued for her beating up a kid at school to the point where she put them in the hospital. And I’d say that Mae is overall a great example of a strong female character not because she’s some super strong woman with basically no flaws (*cough* Rey *cough*), but because despite her flaws she still trucks on and tries help out those around her. Which’s the best that anyone can do, really.
Other than Mae though, some of my own favorite strong female characters are (of course) Samus Aran from Metroid, Lillie from Pokémon Sun/Moon, Edelgard from FE Three Houses, Midna from Twilight Princess and Kainè from Nier Replicant. All of them coincidentally have very tragic backgrounds, but also amazing development (at least for the manga with Samus, since the Metroid games aren’t all that story-heavy…save for the game that shall not be named) that make them compelling and three-dimensional characters without being overly perfect.
@MangaKamen any chance you'll do a Video on the Bosses in videogames and what actually make a Great Villain and what doesn't?
Also, strong women characters aren't always Mary sues, there seem to be people who think that if a female game character is physically and mentally strong and isn’t “feminine” that she’s a mary sue or not a “proper female character”, sure they can be but not all are. A woman can be physically and mentally strong and still be a good character, women characters can be physically and mentally strong in a believable way.
Especially if they had to work there ass off to become powerful, or they got a believable boost of power.
I might get judged for this but my favorite strong female character is Saber from the original Fate/Stay Night
Watched it in 2004 and she is still top tier
What about mordred?
I'm glad you called out the portrayal of Jill Valentine in the Resi 3 remake.
Lucy/Wyldstyle from the lego movie is a great example of a strong woman. A strong woman with flaws and insecurities and a good master builder and a fighter. At first she didn't like Emmet being a special because she thought that he broke the prophecy but tries her best to help Emmet to be a master builder. There was one scene where Lucy said that she wanted to be the special one and stated her real name (Lucy). In the 2nd movie, Lucy is strong and tough but her boyfriend Emmet isn't because he is upbeat and cheerful unlike everyone in Apocalypseburg. So, she decided to force Emmet to be like her, strong, tough, and mature. In the spa scene, it is revealed that Lucy's hair is fuchsia and blue not black with 2 color highlights. This means that she used to be happy like Emmet and is the singer of Everything is Awesome. At the wedding ceremony when Emmet is about to destroy the wedding, Lucy tells Emmet to stop being tough and be his old self, sweet, innocent, and kind + she says that dying her hair black makes her mature but she is wrong. Her boyfriend says that the real Lucy would never say that meaning he only saw her toughness. In the end, she accepted Emmet to be upbeat and her to be happy.
TBH, I liked that she has insecurities like what girls do where they are tired of dresses or dolls but you should do what makes you happy. I know she is a terrible girlfriend but that is like her flaw then soon realize it that being tough and mature isn't always cool.
Here are some examples of female characters that I think are well written 👌
- princess Carolyn ( bojack horseman )
- noi ( dorohedoro)
- Victoria ( metal family )
- azula ( avatar)
- jolyne ( jojo)
I think Toriel, or Undyne, from Undertale, fit the bill to, or Buddy, from LISA.
Twisted Alice from batim is a good strong female character that is a villain. She's extremely feminine. She's very competent and hatches a plan to get henry killed so she can have Buddy's insides to make her beautiful again. She creates this big hulking beast to fight you all by herself. She is not afraid to get her hands dirty if it means reaching her goal. She's vain and manipulative. She's fun to watch and stands as a real threat, she's the only character that gets a solid arc and emotionally hurts the player. I love her so much.
Bayonetta because she is flawed, but can have the confidence to flaunt her brazen femininity. Blaze from Streets of Rage for being an actual badass with no reason to have her skills questioned because of her sex.
A2 for being a terror in battle from her past causing her to be jaded, but then developing a deep compassion for the world she lives in. Strong women are very compelling, and it's bull how many times they are reduced to just a shell of their feminity so there is a flower to be plucked
Love the fact you're using Yakuza sub-story OST's
Ciel from the MMZ series is one of my favorite female characters. She's a brilliant mind who has done many great things for both humans and reploids. However, her ambition is also a bit of a weakness as she was responsible for the existence of Copy X and his chaos despite her good intentions. She also tends to wear her feelings on her sleeves and makes some choices based on emotions, which is sometimes good and sometimes bad. She and Zero have a great dynamic as well. Zero puts certain choices into perspective for her by showing her the logical solution despite her feelings about a given situation. He also reaffirms her talents and morality whenever she is in self-doubt. On the other hand, she helps him with tech-related stuff, but she also helps him as a person by allowing him to open up a little bit more to others. She gives Zero an emotional reason to fight in addition to his natural drive to complete his missions (as seen during the final boss of MMZ4). She showed Zero that he has a family even though he just woke up a century into the future. She is brilliant and a strong character who still has some notable flaws. However, by the end of the series, Ciel grows out of her weaknesses, and her self-confidence increases. She goes from relying on Zero to becoming much more independent without being the typical "I don't need a man" kind of woman. As seen in ZX, she was a key contributor in reuniting the reploids with the humans and ending their war. If that isn't strong, than I don't know what is.
I think a great developer who makes some pretty great characters is toby fox. Undyne, alphys, susie, noelle, queen. Just so many amazing female characters who arent just the "female" or "friend/enemy" they are deep and have backstories. (Maybe not queen but she is still pretty cool) i feel toby fox and his team do a good job with female characters, but that's just my opinion
i like how you pointed out the thing with naoto. SOCIETY wants her to be a man, and naoto doesnt understna that what society wants isnt the same as what SHE wants. society must accept that she can be both a woman and a detective. and they must also accept that, if they didn't need her, they wouldnt have brought her on for the case.
another way to look at it: she's experiencing dysphoria because she DOESNT identify as a man, and is forced to pretend she does in order to be accepted in a country that closes off her dream job to women.
in a way it's similar to kanji. kanji likes things that are associated with women, but he's seen as creepy for it by society. he has to accept that men can like feminine things and still be okay. that he doesnt have to be "normal" in the eyes of others to be okay. being secure in it and not being afraid of judgement, and being open about liking feminine things, if you do like them is the true point where you stop being a boy and become a man.
Honestly, there is probably a good discussion to be had about having good character and then good male/female characters.
Sure, doesn't sound like there isn't much of a difference but I do think that (at least from this video) you could have a good discussion on the differences that can show themselves from those two different points. While the former can definitely influence that later, there can be said that its not and entirely functional two way street.
When it comes to otome games, games catered towards women and just characters in media that happen to be women always seem like it's a struggle to get right. Either writers overthink it(which in most cases these days) or simplify it to a degree that still alienates others. Maybe start by answering questions like "who is she?" "What are her morals?" "Petty preferences and mindsets towards others?" It's not difficult to write women, especially so when a good chunk of us just want the same thing men do. But when we keep seeing the mainstream stuff like Rey or Rachel, we end up not bothering or caring anymorem
One of my favorite female protagonists is Lucette from the otome game Cinderella Phenomenon, you really get to understand her history, personality, and behavior throughout the game as well as see her change into a better person. Most otome games have a pretty bland faceless husk as the protagonist, which is understandable with the whole live vicariously through them aspect, but I really prefer having a main character that I can actually care about.
When you said Bland Otome Game protagonists I couldn’t help but think about Yu Komori from Diabolik Lovers