I think it was in an old "Windplayer" magazine interview with James Morrison who said he only had 1 lesson with an "old bandmaster" who said "pretend to spit tobacco off the top of your tongue. That's it"
The spitting seed.... I feel that approach is more demanding for the lips than tce. But funny enough the two ways supports each other...as I feel after a few days doing booth. Great tribute to understanding, Rich! Thank you. Happy New year to you
Yes! I need to do a talk about this, how the various parts work together or against each other… and the bits that we miss because they aren’t emphasised very much. I always thought that the spit buzz was over powered and a few other teachers in this community don’t teach it.
That's exactly how I have always played. I was taught the "spitting a hair off the end of your tongue" approach. My tongue acts as a valve too and it's far forward. I am pretty sure this was standard brass band training prior to the 1980 or 90s. I'm not a full on TCE guy but there are clear similarities. I feel that this approach let's my lip start to vibrate even if the standing waves in the instrument make it feel stuffy.
I’ve seen testament that it was the standard way in the Salvation Army bands at one point too. Brass pedagogy took a turn in a bad direction during the 20th Century leaving people obsessed with some pretty stupid ideas, not least of all promoting wilful ignorance as though it’s a method! Social media hasn’t really helped because as people are suddenly exposed to a world of new ideas they get defensive about what they’ve been taught and fail to understand that there has never been only one way to swing a cat…
Also, I’ve met quite a lot of people who have told me that they used to tongue between the teeth and when they went to music college were forced to play differently. They all report that their playing either took a dive or just stopped improving after the change.
@@BrassPractice I studied with the principal trumpet of a big orchestra and he believed in articulating using the diaphragm. So you had to go "hu" for every note. It meant playing with very little control. You needed very strong corners to hold it all together. I learned a lot from him, but you need to be practicing for hours a day to make that system work. I went back to my original method.
How do TCE players deal with slurred passages or passages of multiple tonguing where playing between the teeth is either not possible (slurring) or too slow (Clarke style showpieces with significant passages of high speed triple tonguing)?
Slurring is possible with the tongue anchored on the lips, like with any anchor-tongue technique. Similarly, double and triple tonguing are simply a matter of articulating with different parts of the tongue. I suppose the biggest difference with TCE would be that the tongue doesn’t move as much. Part of the way that I learned TCE is through a series of exercises called the 5 articulations, which help a lot in understanding how the technique is applied to music.
@@BrassPractice thanks for the technical info. I must say that tongueing this way (and then leaving the tongue touching the bottom lip) does seem to create 20-30% more resonance and power, or I can create the same power with 20-30% less effort.
Maurice was great. The way Ralph Salamone explains is not near this way, or is it? The tunque on bottom lip pressing forward...thats not what Mourice did, or? I will try to find my way and as you said in tce-talks...one must master low and midle register first. Take care Erik Denmark
Hi Erik, No, I don’t believe that Maurice, or any of these players use what we would call a Tongue Controlled Embouchure. However, the act of using the tongue between the teeth and articulating with the tongue on the lip is well documented in old trumpet methods and this video demonstrates that many of our most celebrated heroes did the same. TCE itself is a technique that has been developed as a means of combining this knowledge with the research of Jerome Callet and Bahb Civiletti for the sake of being able to teach players to overcome their physical playing problems. No other modern approaches to playing do that. Best wishes, Rich
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I think it was in an old "Windplayer" magazine interview with James Morrison who said he only had 1 lesson with an "old bandmaster" who said "pretend to spit tobacco off the top of your tongue. That's it"
The spitting seed....
I feel that approach is more demanding for the lips than tce.
But funny enough the two ways supports each other...as I feel after a few days doing booth.
Great tribute to understanding, Rich!
Thank you.
Happy New year to you
Yes! I need to do a talk about this, how the various parts work together or against each other… and the bits that we miss because they aren’t emphasised very much. I always thought that the spit buzz was over powered and a few other teachers in this community don’t teach it.
great material, thanks for share!
You're welcome!!
Great inside information 👏👏🎺🎶🎺something to think about can’t wait to try it👏🎺🎶🎺
That's exactly how I have always played. I was taught the "spitting a hair off the end of your tongue" approach. My tongue acts as a valve too and it's far forward. I am pretty sure this was standard brass band training prior to the 1980 or 90s. I'm not a full on TCE guy but there are clear similarities. I feel that this approach let's my lip start to vibrate even if the standing waves in the instrument make it feel stuffy.
I’ve seen testament that it was the standard way in the Salvation Army bands at one point too.
Brass pedagogy took a turn in a bad direction during the 20th Century leaving people obsessed with some pretty stupid ideas, not least of all promoting wilful ignorance as though it’s a method!
Social media hasn’t really helped because as people are suddenly exposed to a world of new ideas they get defensive about what they’ve been taught and fail to understand that there has never been only one way to swing a cat…
Also, I’ve met quite a lot of people who have told me that they used to tongue between the teeth and when they went to music college were forced to play differently. They all report that their playing either took a dive or just stopped improving after the change.
@@BrassPractice I studied with the principal trumpet of a big orchestra and he believed in articulating using the diaphragm. So you had to go "hu" for every note. It meant playing with very little control. You needed very strong corners to hold it all together. I learned a lot from him, but you need to be practicing for hours a day to make that system work. I went back to my original method.
You don't have to play like that but if gou learned how to do it you automatically play more efficiently.
How do TCE players deal with slurred passages or passages of multiple tonguing where playing between the teeth is either not possible (slurring) or too slow (Clarke style showpieces with significant passages of high speed triple tonguing)?
Slurring is possible with the tongue anchored on the lips, like with any anchor-tongue technique. Similarly, double and triple tonguing are simply a matter of articulating with different parts of the tongue.
I suppose the biggest difference with TCE would be that the tongue doesn’t move as much.
Part of the way that I learned TCE is through a series of exercises called the 5 articulations, which help a lot in understanding how the technique is applied to music.
@@BrassPractice thanks for the technical info. I must say that tongueing this way (and then leaving the tongue touching the bottom lip) does seem to create 20-30% more resonance and power, or I can create the same power with 20-30% less effort.
Maurice was great. The way Ralph Salamone explains is not near this way, or is it?
The tunque on bottom lip pressing forward...thats not what Mourice did, or?
I will try to find my way and as you said in tce-talks...one must master low and midle register first.
Take care
Erik
Denmark
Hi Erik,
No, I don’t believe that Maurice, or any of these players use what we would call a Tongue Controlled Embouchure. However, the act of using the tongue between the teeth and articulating with the tongue on the lip is well documented in old trumpet methods and this video demonstrates that many of our most celebrated heroes did the same.
TCE itself is a technique that has been developed as a means of combining this knowledge with the research of Jerome Callet and Bahb Civiletti for the sake of being able to teach players to overcome their physical playing problems.
No other modern approaches to playing do that.
Best wishes,
Rich
@@BrassPractice . Always interesting to read and listen to you.
Thank you for reply!
Take care
Erik